Well, to be fair, Deep Breath is 76 minutes long, so that is long enough to be a short film.
Now, why anyone would bay 11.50 pounds (roughly 18.50 USD) for it is beyond me.
Doctor Who
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That's… how the dvd market works. They ALL have bare bones first release then a real one later. Double dipping is common. Some people don't want to wait and get the early. some get both, some are patient and need a motivator to get a more expensive one. I'm still waiting on the proper version of Desolation of Smaug... but I could have bough thte theatrical version months ago.
With Doctor Who especially where they refuse to do any sort of reasonable season set for the old show (outside of a really overpriced Key of Time set)... because they know the fans that reeeally want the show will pay full 20$ price for an episode when that should really be at least 6 stories for that ammount... I don't own any of the old stuff, its just out of my price range. But if they did reasonable season sets, I'd probably own at least all of Pertwee and Tom Baker.
They're still based on DVD/VHS prices from 15 years ago, basically, when the market was still okay with selling 45-60 minutes of content for 30$. (And we STILL sell movies at those prices!)
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No issues whatsoever with todays ep. Been a while since I've enjoyed an episode this much.
Anyone else catch a glimpse of
! Troughton as Robin?
Wow. I was surprised they had a picture of the first Robin Hood movie in there, but it totally spaced me that that actor played him.
I really liked the episode, despite the fact I'm not a huge fan of Gatiss's episodes. It was pretty fun and didn't really waste much time on anything, although it did have some silly moments. Like when that one slave-lady was shaking from straining to hold the metal pan as if the laser was constantly beaming on it… When really it just bounced off of it for a second. Some of the comedy gave me a good chuckle, like 12's solution to the initial arrow shooting contest.
I got some Ainley Master vibes from the Sheriff. Mainly because of the looks, though.
I think I know how Robby feels, although I also feel the "magic" is starting to grow on me. I think the reason it's taking so long as compared to 10 & 11 is because they're spending the whole season developing Capaldi's Doctor (given by these current 3 episodes), whereas Tenant and Smith had their debut episodes figure it out for the most part. Deep Breath was kind of the same, but we were still left We had him contemplating if he was a good man or not in Into the Dalek and the complex things behind it (he hates the daleks, but feels guilty for it), and in this one he's compared to the likes of Robin Hood and the heroism surrounding the legend.
It kinda sucks for Capaldi that they're making a slow development of his Doctor but in the long run, I think will turn out to be a pretty awesome season once he starts becoming a more active guy. Not saying I want the "grumpiness" to go away, but to add some enthusiasm on top of it.
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Finally got to watch the episode. I adored it! I mean, it's not mindblowing classic or anything, but I really wanted a purely fun story with all the grimness we've had so far. I think this is the episode that Capaldi really became 100% the Doctor to me. I love him so much in this!
I caught the Troughton pic. :) Also, the little Venusian Aikido "HAI!" and how about that reference to the Miniscope from Carnival of Monsters?
The dialogue at the end was interesting. "History is a Burden. Stories let us fly". Clara still remembers what she read about the Doctor in the book apparently. I wonder if they'll reveal a bit more of that. Always a sticky subject, the Doctor's past. Some of the past attempts I'd rather not believe are canon.
@Mr.:
I got some Ainley Master vibes from the Sheriff. Mainly because of the looks, though.
Me too. I watched The King's Demons last night (another medieval story that happens to have a robot…and an equally cheesy song-singing) and I think by default I thought "oh hey the Master!" Oh wait he's not the master anymore."
I could be wrong, and I often am...but I have some feeling that all of this questioning and doubting is leading to something more than just shrugging and saying "yeah, well, at least you tried".
I don't think that's good enough for the Doctor. He wants to believe in himself and what he does completely. Perhaps nobody ever should ever stop questioning that, but there's a point where you have to stop beating yourself up over the mistakes you've made, accept that you can't accomplish great things without the risk of making them.Thinking about the line "I've made many mistakes, it's about time I did something about that", Some people were speculating that he was going to actively fix past mistakes. I'm starting to think that he just decided that he needs avoid making them, meaning being uncharacteristically cautious...and realistic. Like he's looking at himself the way the other Time Lords always have. A meddling cosmic joke at best, a dangerous instigator that puts others in harms way at worst. That would certainly make for an unhappy doctor.
"When did you stop believing in impossible things?" Clara wouldn't ask the question if he wasn't going to answer it at some point.
I think one of the most interesting scenes was when he got a kiss on the cheek and he acted utterly puzzled and conflicted about it.
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I'm not TRYING to do that. I just AM.
I want to love the new stuff. There's nothing wrong with what they're doing, and I'm not implying for a second that there is.
I'm just personally not adjusting to the switch over very quickly, and that annoys the hell out of me, because I assumed I'd be fine right out the gate… I always have been before.
You're not alone there Robby.
I feel that a lot of the problem is down to Capaldi's Doctor has been written to be a Cranky old bastard - but Capaldi doesn't want to play him that way. You can see how he is delivering the lines he is trying for exasperated rather than angry. I have a feeling that if the writing doesn't change and they keep trying to make him the "Angry" Doctor he will quit the production and fans will blame him for not being a good Doctor when he probably thought he was going to be a different style of Doctor. Hence most of his interviews he kept trying to convince people he wasn't just rehashing his role of Malcolm Tucker from The Thick of It.
It's a classic case of Director/Script and Actor not compromising I'm not sure whats going to happen about it all but its definitely becoming a headache for more than just the viewers.
Pell survived because he is a Falcon - Stop using him as a bad example.
The Peregrine Falcon reaches faster speeds than any other animal on the planet when performing the stoop,which involves soaring to a great height and then diving steeply at speeds of over 320 km/h (200 mph)
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"This is just getting silly" - blows up target.
Capaldi is my kind of timelord.
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I feel that a lot of the problem is down to Capaldi's Doctor has been written to be a Cranky old bastard - but Capaldi doesn't want to play him that way. You can see how he is delivering the lines he is trying for exasperated rather than angry.
To be fair, he did say that he is going fo not easily approachable person who is actualy sweet and kind inside. No wonder you guys can't approach him.
Besides, Peter personally decided that there will be no romance, catchphrases etc.
So he is probably content with the results. -
You're not alone there Robby.
I feel that a lot of the problem is down to Capaldi's Doctor has been written to be a Cranky old bastard - but Capaldi doesn't want to play him that way. You can see how he is delivering the lines he is trying for exasperated rather than angry. I have a feeling that if the writing doesn't change and they keep trying to make him the "Angry" Doctor he will quit the production and fans will blame him for not being a good Doctor when he probably thought he was going to be a different style of Doctor. Hence most of his interviews he kept trying to convince people he wasn't just rehashing his role of Malcolm Tucker from The Thick of It.
It's a classic case of Director/Script and Actor not compromising I'm not sure whats going to happen about it all but its definitely becoming a headache for more than just the viewers.
Can you point to anything other than your own personal thoughts, fears, and projections, because from the rest of the internet, audience ratings, interviews with cast and crew, nothing could be further from the truth. In interviews that I read, he said they mostly wanted him to play it as himself, and he spent the first few episodes trying to discover the persona. Anyone who met him on set or worked with him has said he was like a kid in a candy shop and having the time of his life playing the role. I'm also pretty sure people are projecting Malcom Tucker on to him more than anything. How do you know what Capaldi wants or expected?
I don't see how he's a cranky old bastard, anyway. That was Hartnell in his first couple of stories. If he was a younger actor, you'd think he was being a bit childish.
I don't think you "see" him either.
Anyway, what's Doctor Who fandom without the doom and gloomers.
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa
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"This is just getting silly" - blows up target.
Capaldi is my kind of timelord.
My favorite moment.
You're not alone there Robby.
I feel that a lot of the problem is down to Capaldi's Doctor has been written to be a Cranky old bastard - but Capaldi doesn't want to play him that way. You can see how he is delivering the lines he is trying for exasperated rather than angry. I have a feeling that if the writing doesn't change and they keep trying to make him the "Angry" Doctor he will quit the production and fans will blame him for not being a good Doctor when he probably thought he was going to be a different style of Doctor. Hence most of his interviews he kept trying to convince people he wasn't just rehashing his role of Malcolm Tucker from The Thick of It.
It's a classic case of Director/Script and Actor not compromising I'm not sure whats going to happen about it all but its definitely becoming a headache for more than just the viewers.
I don't see this being true. There may have been some creative differences, but I find it hard to see Capaldi so against the idea of an angry Doctor. Plus we're only 3 episodes in, and we know he's signed on for yet another season, so who's to say he'll always remain such a cynic? I imagine he'll soften as the season progresses (he's not that angry to begin with), but he'll still be "angry" since we're due for a change of pace in personalities from the recent Doctors.
Personally I don't see him quitting for a while. I'm guessing he'll be around for at least 3 years.
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Can you point to anything other than your own personal thoughts, fears, and projections, because from the rest of the internet, audience ratings, interviews with cast and crew, nothing could be further from the truth. In interviews that I read, he said they mostly wanted him to play it as himself, and he spent the first few episodes trying to discover the persona. Anyone who met him on set or worked with him has said he was like a kid in a candy shop and having the time of his life playing the role. I'm also pretty sure people are projecting Malcom Tucker on to him more than anything. How do you know what Capaldi wants or expected?
I don't see how he's a cranky old bastard, anyway. That was Hartnell in his first couple of stories. If he was a younger actor, you'd think he was being a bit childish.
I don't think you "see" him either.
Anyway, what's Doctor Who fandom without the doom and gloomers.
Yes I can point to the original scripts - which were written to show a much more angrier Doctor including direction notes, I won't list examples though but the pilot was written to be much more angrier than he was playing.
That said I am not saying for certain I think he'd quit or is causing problems, I just wouldn't be shocked if I heard that was the case. It's likely that the next lot of scripts will all be written a lot more in line with how Capaldi is playing the Doctor and will make him shine in the next season should he continue. Its a standard as Actors/Directors and Script writers get used to the main characters they start to work a lot better together. I'm just not expecting that to happen anytime soon. -
So in other words, everything is normal for production and going as expected.
You might find it interesting that from things that I had read, the first few scripts were written with Matt Smith in mind originally, who also said himself that they planned for him to be a little darker and angrier had he stayed on board.
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I'm still not feeling it.
And I hate that I'm not feeling it.I was in the same boat, and Smith will always be my doctor despite being the 4th i saw, he was my first doctor i watched from start to finish, as it was airing. Anyway, what weirdly helped me start liking the Capaldi episodes more, was watching 11th hour and Deep Breath back to back. I have no good reason why this made me like Capaldis doctor more, but it worked for me, so it might be worth a shot.
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Amazing episode.
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I wasn't sold on Capaldi yet, but he really was the Doctor tonight.
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I'm hooked on Capaldi now, too. What a great episode!
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! Am I the only one who thought nothing was a bit of an anti-climax?
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@TLC:
! Am I the only one who thought nothing was a bit of an anti-climax?
! But it's the whole point of the episode ! I found it brillant that, for once, a monster wasn't involved. Or was it ? We don't know for sure what the deal was in Rupert's bedroom or at the end of the universe. It's all left to the imagination and it's better like that in my opinion.
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! But it's the whole point of the episode ! I found it brillant that, for once, a monster wasn't involved. Or was it ? We don't know for sure what the deal was in Rupert's bedroom or in the end of the universe. It's all left to the imagination and it's better like that in my opinion.
! I might have been more invested in the twist if…you know...the whole childhood trauma thing was actually a thing with the Doctor instead of just something randomly introduced in the beginning of the episode. This twist would work better as an original idea for a movie than for an established character who, while he does have his personal demons, him being afraid of the dark and unknown was NEVER one of them. So to be told the Doctor has this childhood fear of the dark but don't worry it'll be resolved in the same episode doesn't work for me. As such the whole idea of the episode falls flat on its face for me. As such, while it just being another monster WOULD have been lame, it being NOTHING is hardly much better nor is it that clever either. It was ALL in his head, wow, never saw that before in a thriller (cough American Psycho, cough Fight Club)
! Like I hate to be a grouch but after the show did some masterful suspense on the creature, for the payoff to be no payoff is just weak. I think the episode might have worked if we cut out soldier what's his name entirely and used the time wasted on Clara's stupid romance subplot which just KILLED the momentum of the episode to actually delve into the Doctor's psychology and fears and trauma so we could actually care a bit more when we found out they were all in his head. I think it's really those two things that killed the twist for me and turned a neat idea that could have worked into a...this was lame, couldn't we have had something like the Vashti again?
! That and something I found really irksome is the whole thing smelt less like Moffat wanting to delve into the Doctor's psyche and more like his ego not being able to tolerate people not liking Clara. So he wrote this big fucking speech for her at the end and ONCE AGAIN, Clara is the most important companion in the universe who shaped his very psyche. Blegh.
! Also what the fuck was under the bed? It just being a mystery is such a lazy cheat and it's probably the excuse Moffat would give if he were questioned about it... -
! Holy shit.
! We have seen the unearthly child. -
That was a pretty damn fantastic episode.
Still not feeling Capaldi (through no fault of his own, I know its all me) but a great ep.
! I love the fact we don't know if there actually was anything or not. Be so easy to just say once again "yup. Monster." And there might be! But for it to be left to our imagination to decide? Infinitely better.
! Also loved the half second of war doctor and the tying back into why that place. Neat.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@TLC:
! I might have been more invested in the twist if…you know...the whole childhood trauma thing was actually a thing with the Doctor instead of just something randomly introduced in the beginning of the episode. This twist would work better as an original idea for a movie than for an established character who, while he does have his personal demons, him being afraid of the dark and unknown was NEVER one of them. So to be told the Doctor has this childhood fear of the dark but don't worry it'll be resolved in the same episode doesn't work for me. As such the whole idea of the episode falls flat on its face for me. As such, while it just being another monster WOULD have been lame, it being NOTHING is hardly much better nor is it that clever either. It was ALL in his head, wow, never saw that before in a thriller (cough American Psycho, cough Fight Club)
! Like I hate to be a grouch but after the show did some masterful suspense on the creature, for the payoff to be no payoff is just weak. I think the episode might have worked if we cut out soldier what's his name entirely and used the time wasted on Clara's stupid romance subplot which just KILLED the momentum of the episode to actually delve into the Doctor's psychology and fears and trauma so we could actually care a bit more when we found out they were all in his head. I think it's really those two things that killed the twist for me and turned a neat idea that could have worked into a...this was lame, couldn't we have had something like the Vashti again?
! That and something I found really irksome is the whole thing smelt less like Moffat wanting to delve into the Doctor's psyche and more like his ego not being able to tolerate people not liking Clara. So he wrote this big fucking speech for her at the end and ONCE AGAIN, Clara is the most important companion in the universe who shaped his very psyche. Blegh.
! Also what the fuck was under the bed? It just being a mystery is such a lazy cheat and it's probably the excuse Moffat would give if he were questioned about it...Guy just regenerated. He's allowed to have different quirks and fears.
3 loved jelly bellies and always smiled. 5 carried around a celery because he was alergic to a specific poison. 11 liked the taste of fish fingers and custard. They've all ranged from angry to warm to goofy to scary to flamboyant to eccentric. They even have different abilities, one can do computer programming while another can't.
It'd be a legit complaint if we were still on Matt Smith maybe. But new guy, new thoughts, memories and worries. (Similarly, the newest one has a problem with soldiers. May be slightly related to that memory resurfacing.) It works.
And sorry you don't like the Clara subplot once again. I'm rather enjoying her being an actual person now.
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Clara is oficially worse than Adric and she should ride the same ship into great beyond.
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I really enjoyed that episode. I am a huge fan of how it played out and was open-ended. More like this please!
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What a outstandingly amazing episode.
Also, it looks like we finally know what Capaldi's doctor is: a legitimate batshit insane man with a box, not the "madman" Smith's Doctor was.
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This kid looks like tiny silurian.
Besides, what he did was kinda creepy in on itself, even if he wasn't a monster. -
! Tardis just went to Gallifrey guys.
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Guy just regenerated. He's allowed to have different quirks and fears.
3 loved jelly bellies and always smiled. 5 carried around a celery because he was alergic to a specific poison. 11 liked the taste of fish fingers and custard. They've all ranged from angry to warm to goofy to scary to flamboyant to eccentric. They even have different abilities, one can do computer programming while another can't.
It'd be a legit complaint if we were still on Matt Smith maybe. But new guy, new thoughts, memories and worries. (Similarly, the newest one has a problem with soldiers. May be slightly related to that memory resurfacing.) It works.
And sorry you don't like the Clara subplot once again. I'm rather enjoying her being an actual person now.
! I might accept that argument, despite the fact that it was a CHILDHOOD memory so it should have been a thing for every Doctor not just Capaldi, if it had been introduced at the start of the season. But we were given the whole "Oh by the way, I have this deep fear of this random event from my childhood but we'll just resolve it in the same episode". It's not very satisfying, I'm not invested in the Doctor's trauma if the show doesn't even take time to develop it and wastes it on a pointless subplot instead.
! Speaking of, it was pointless this episode even if it will probably be relevant later in the season, because it had nothing to do with the Doctor and the monsters under the bed and just killed the creepy momentum the episode had built up before. Also it doesn't help that while Clara was fine, her new boyfriend has the personality of a brick. This is just another case of Moffat trying to cram too many ideas at once and hurting the overall product.
! Also you have to admit, even though Clara is much better this season, it's getting fucking ridiculous how much of a fundamentally essential companion she is to the point she shaped the Doctor's mental psyche. Like holy crap, does it come off as fanficcy egotism. "My story is the most epic and it has the most important characters in the universe OUT ALL OF FIFTY YEARS". -
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spoiler
Spoilers, man. The episode is nearly 24 hours old.
Waldo, he isn't in every book.
This line was pretty awesome considering it's comedic portion and it's connection to the episode.
@RamistaR:Amazing episode! I think "scary" episodes are my favorites. I expected this to show up. But I'm really pleased by the final conclusion.
Y'know, while I was watching the episode, I had some vibes about that monster as well. I mean, it fits the bill pretty well, too: The Doctor mentions it's appearance is unknown because it (this episode's monster) hides real well, but that could be him mistaking it as it's "forgot me when you don't see me" mechanism.
I thought the episode was great, probably my favorite of the season so far. Loved the surprises that it had. Especially
! the War Doctor "cameo", and the explanation as to what the barn was and why the War Doctor chose that place. Neat to see some development of the Doctor in unexpected times instead of specials like season finales or anniversaries.
! Plus the whole soldier theme is popping up quite a bit and is being done pretty nicely, and it's yet another arc of it's own for the season. I wonder if the Doctor has a thing against soldiers because his dad seemed pretty adamant on making him join the army, which is really interesting considering the actions of the War Doctor (everything up to the Moment, anyways).If I'm not mistaken, Capaldi just quoted Tom Baker's first lines as the Doctor at one point, too.
It's been a pretty solid season so far, just hope the rest can keep up the quality.
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@Mr.:
If I'm not mistaken, Capaldi just quoted Tom Baker's first lines as the Doctor at one point, too.
Even better, "Fear makes companions of us all" is a quote from the very first serial, an Unearthly Child.
3DS Friend Code : 3222 - 6913 - 3431
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I'm a little late to the party because I worked all day Saturday, but damn, I loved that episode. It may very well place in my top 3, though I need time to think about it.
I'm glad everyone here seems to like it, during my 24 hours of glancing at Twitter, I caught some glimpses of people that seemed to think Moffat just destroyed Doctor Who…but then I anticipated that, people have been saying this was going to be a divisive story since the script leaked.
There are so many things I want to discuss about it.
! For one thing, wait, isn't Gallifrey Time locked?
! Secondly, looks like they just confirmed the theory that Time Lords are made, not born, at least not necessarily (I've had this discussion many times, it's never been totally clear)
! Thirdly; what do you think about Clara giving the toy soldier to the Doctor? "Time Travel is in my family". So, one possibility is that it's simply a matter of Clara/Danny's past being a part of the doctor's past. It's very cough timey-wimey. Moffat loves that stuff.
I'm guessing Orson is a descendant of Danny and Clara, since they're hinting at there being a relation between the two.
I actually have another odd thought, but I'll save it for later.
! One other little Easter egg - the finger to the forehead trick was something McCoy did. Must be a Scottish doctor thing. -
…
! It was mentioned that all safe measures are off, besides Clara may have some kind of anchor in that time period with her splinters. Besides, I have a theory that barn is not actually on Gallifrey.
! Wasn't it confirmed long time ago during Classic series, that Time Lords are actually a caste? There were wild Gallifreyans and common citizens who didn't have time lord abilities.
! About toy. It was lying in the box in the orphanage, then Danny took it, gave it to his descendant and then it got to Orson, and from him, to the Doctor (and therefore is lying that barn for eternity).
It's pretty obvious, that Clara and Danny got together in the future, or, at least, Danny was a full-time compation. I hope it is that way, because if Clara is Doctor's mother I'm dropping it till Moffat is out and all this shit is retconned. -
! It was mentioned that all safe measures are off, besides Clara may have some kind of anchor in that time period with her splinters. Besides, I have a theory that barn is not actually on Gallifrey.
! Yeah, it just hit me that it was the same barn, and in DotD they were surprised that they were able to go to it. Wouldn't the Doctor know it wasn't on Gallifrey, though?
Wasn't it confirmed long time ago during Classic series, that Time Lords are actually a caste? There were wild Gallifreyans and common citizens who didn't have time lord abilities.
No, it hasn't been confirmed. Several things have indicated that might be the case, but others have mucked it up, it's never been plainly stated as far as I can recall. Although I do know that in the books, Ace was allowed to go to the Academy to become a Time Lord.
! > About toy. It was lying in the box in the orphanage, then Danny took it, gave it to his descendant and then it got to Orson, and from him, to the Doctor (and therefore is lying that barn for eternity).
It's pretty obvious, that Clara and Danny got together in the future, or, at least, Danny was a full-time compation. I hope it is that way, because if Clara is Doctor's mother I'm dropping it till Moffat is out and all this shit is retconned.! Haha, I couldn't help but think of the TV movie. I wouldn't put it past Moffat to piss everyone off by deciding to explain all that. But he might be just trying to mess with people too.
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! Yeah, it just hit me that it was the same barn, and in DotD they were surprised that they were able to go to it. Wouldn't the Doctor know it wasn't on Gallifrey, though?
! He didn't specify that it is on Gallifrey though, did he? I don't remember him saying it, but I might be wrong.
I got this idea because: a) Doctor apparently was going to survive using the Moment b) It was kind of too peaceful of a place on a planet completely surrounded by daleks.No, it hasn't been confirmed. Several things have indicated that might be the case, but others have mucked it up, it's never been plainly stated as far as I can recall. Although I do know that in the books, Ace was allowed to go to the Academy to become a Time Lord.
There wasn't only Ace, I think Leela too became a Time Lord in Gallifrey series. Or not. There were also other races that could become time lords, and again I doubt villagers-outsiders could regenerate.
So it seems to be a safe bet to assume time lords are made, and looms were retconned long ago.! Haha, I couldn't help but think of the TV movie. I wouldn't put it past Moffat to piss everyone off by deciding to explain all that. But he might be just trying to mess with people too.
! Surprisingly, I haven't seen people complain that much about that childhood scene. It was kinda neat. But there is a fine line, and if plot points of 90's movies start to surface, I think it's time to change the showrunner. Also, I hope Clara dissapears for good.
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Great episode. Just had two minor complaints
-moff sticking clara into the doctors early life for another paradox. I shouldn't be surprised as he's never really cared about them, but I always find them kinda sloppy writing.
-if he wants us to wonder, why show us that the thing under the covers is not human. doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of it?I think Time Lords are made(need to go back and watch the three doctors), but the question is whether or not Omega converted all of them or if it's an ongoing process. This ep seems to point to it being ongoing and not a permanent change to the species.
radio times poster for this episode was fantastic:
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Great episode. Just had two minor complaints
-moff sticking clara into the doctors early life for another paradox.
Is it a paradox if it's just a loop, and it was always that way?
Paradox is when you get two contradictory bits that don't work together, like orphan Rose saving her father, or seeing Rory die as an old man and then killing him earlier.
Gargoyles worked in loops. Quantum Leap worked in paradoxes. (making right what once went wrong.)
Who tends toward the middle. Things can be changed, especially small things… as long as someone doesn't know the outcome in advance or it doesn't contradict anything. (Barring Atlantis...) When it contradicts a known outcome that tends to blow up the universe or summon the langoliers.
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Yeah, but I wouldn't really call it a small thing:
doc meets clara(s) -> doc makes sure clara is born -> clara makes sure doc becomes doc
I mean I've read books with self sufficient time loops before (Harry Harrison did a cool one in the sixties called "Technicolor Time machine"), but it always niggles at me as not a clean solution. At least this one is nowhere near as in-your-face as the pandorica/bigbang one was.
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Guess it's time to post this again.
Anyway, yeah, great episode.
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Long as a loop is self contained it doesn't bother me, as its "what always happened", we the audience just weren't aware of that part of it prior because…
...eh, don't need to get into it. Wibbly wobbly straight line/ball explanation covers it. It really is convenient shorthand.
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Guys, I figured it what was under the bed!
! This is the first episode of this season that didn't have a Game of Thrones actor in it (who instantly died). So it clearly was Peter Dinklage under the sheets, who then tripped and fell down the stairs. Mystery solved.
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! Surprisingly, I haven't seen people complain that much about that childhood scene. It was kinda neat. But there is a fine line, and if plot points of 90's movies start to surface, I think it's time to change the showrunner. Also, I hope Clara dissapears for good.
! That's already happened, though, with "Night of the Doctor". He even essentially canonized the Big Finish audio adventure companions. And even the biggest Moffat haters applauded him for all of that. That movie happened whether we like it or not, it's just a matter of explaining that line as being truth or a lie. It'll always be an elephant in the room otherwise.
Here's the Doctor Who Extra for Listen, by the way, I tend to forget to watch them.
Don't watch it before seeing the episode.
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!
! MOFFAT!
! Actually I thought that one was quite good - especially the 'was there even a monster' twist. So props. Though I am bugged my the Doctor's random misogyny (where he's not being alien but just being nasty for the sake of it), and Clara's increasingly important role in the canon. Moffat's ego is going to be the true villain of this season.moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon
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I don't see misogyny. I actually find his little playful jibes to be funny in a thou-dost-protest-too-much kind of way as opposed to some of the withering insults Three, Four and Six would do.
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa
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Haha, I like how Jenna call it a "Moffat Loop". That sounds pretty accurate.
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! That's already happened, though, with "Night of the Doctor". He even essentially canonized the Big Finish audio adventure companions. And even the biggest Moffat haters applauded him for all of that. That movie happened whether we like it or not, it's just a matter of explaining that line as being truth or a lie. It'll always be an elephant in the room otherwise.
! Oh no. Not that movie. Another one, which was cancelled. In which the Doctor goes on search of his Time Lord father (who in named Ulysses btw), and his human mother. Also, Master is his brother in that one. I have nothing against 1996 movie, but this one was righfully forgotten. Big Finish never does anything this stupid. No human mothers. No human mothers ever.
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And while I'm not really bothered by that scene, and the Doctor being nasty (really, he is nasty to everyone, not just Clara. Getting rid of her and making Danny a companion instead, will solve all those problems.), I think Steven has to go. Preferably, soon. And take Gatiss with him.
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I think Steven has to stay. Preferably, for many many years.
But maybe let Gatiss do a bit less, agreed.
Well, only reason why Steven must not be stopped before Clara gave birth to all creation, is that there is about 90% possibility that he will somehow install Gatiss as new showrunner.
We will not survive that golden era. -
Oh no. Not that movie. Another one, which was cancelled. In which the Doctor goes on search of his Time Lord father (who in named Ulysses btw), and his human mother. Also, Master is his brother in that one. I have nothing against 1996 movie, but this one was righfully forgotten. Big Finish never does anything this stupid. No human mothers. No human mothers ever.
Yeah, that's what was supposed to happen in that movie, but it was re-written. However, in the movie that exists, he still says he's half human on his mother's side. that's all I'm pointing out, not the movie that would have been.
And while I'm not really bothered by that scene, and the Doctor being nasty (really, he is nasty to everyone, not just Clara. Getting rid of her and making Danny a companion instead, will solve all those problems.), I think Steven has to go. Preferably, soon. And take Gatiss with him.
Samuel Anderson said he's not going to be a companion already, so I doubt that will happen. Don't mistake your own dislike of Clara for being the thoughts of all of fandom, many people lover her, just like people loved Rose, even though a few of us here clearly disliked her. I don't hate Clara, but I don't love her either. Either way, I don't have any big problem with her or what's been written.
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Samuel Anderson said he's not going to be a companion already, so I doubt that will happen. Don't mistake your own dislike of Clara for being the thoughts of all of fandom, many people lover her, just like people loved Rose, even though a few of us here clearly disliked her. I don't hate Clara, but I don't love her either. Either way, I don't have any big problem with her or what's been written.
It's a bit too early to believe anything Samuel says.
Well, if there will be a single male companion, and Doctor will make fun of him, there will be no misogyny complaints, don't you think?
My dislike for Clara has nothing to do with that, it would happen with any female companion of current 12. -
For all the complaints about Clara, he'd be doing the same stuff with any companion that happened to be on the show at the moment. Interaction with the doctor would be the same-ish, and magnitude of what they're doing would be the same.
Rose was apparently his one true love… somehow? Donna was eventually super special universe saving. Amy rebooted the universe. River came around to be his wife. Rory died and was reborn a ton and lived 2000 years. NuWho makes the companions more important than the old show did.
Goes hand in hand with the Doctor's expanded influence. Rather than be the udnerdog battling authority, he IS the authority... so his companions need to be big deals too in that dynamic.
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I'd love there to be another Jamie/Turlough. But the Doctor's never had a single male companion. Which is probably for the best, we don't need the show to be a complete sausage fest. Unless we get a female doctor with a male companion…now that would be a twist. :P
