Wrongness in general

Airflow

It's funny cause most of the people who thought Moria was dead are some of his biggest fans.

Ares

Since Morias fate thread is closed and it seems we are talking about the conclusions in this thread with people telling the ones who though Moria was dead to addmit they were wrong, I will add my own and last part on the topic.
I am not going going to mock or laugh at anyone, since that was not the point of disscusion for me, and to all the laughers, I would say to you that laughing to them and rejoicing dont make you more cool, or better than the people that basshed you.
Instead, I will addmit one thing: After some disscusion in the Morias fate thread, especially this last week, I started to convince myself that Moria was going to die, since you gave good reasons for your thoughts. But as the current chapter has showed I will say to you for the next time something like this happens: Dont bash or mock anyone, or call them silly or stupid beacuse they think something different. If you read my posts in that thread you will see what I say, with mee saying that it wasnt 100% sure that Moria was alive and lots of people bashing.And although like they said the probabilities of Moria beeing alive were maybe under 25%, he ended up beeing alive.
Hoping to keep disscusing with all you guys about different topics!!

Kuroten

@Airflow:

It's funny cause most of the people who thought Moria was dead are some of his biggest fans.

Pretty much. I love that lazy bastard, yet I was assuming it made more sense for him to die than not. Only thing that's still off is the newspaper people's incompetence for printing that article without support…

Darkstorm

I thought he was probably dead but hoped he wasn't.

I didn't see a big reason for oda to keep him alive with the way the story was flowing which is what worried me so much.

Airflow

@Darkstorm:

I didn't see a big reason for oda to keep him alive with the way the story was flowing which is what worried me so much.

Exactly. Aside from fanservice and some possible future meetup with Kaidou there's really no reason to keep him around.

Darkstorm

Or at least nothing we haven't thought of yet. Any kind of alliance has the problem of Moria's temperament as we saw when he was talking to Kuma.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Oda does with him, same as with Croc.

Tsukishima

I am not going going to mock or laugh at anyone, since that was not the point of disscusion for me, and to all the laughers, I would say to you that laughing to them and rejoicing dont make you more cool, or better than the people that basshed you.

I had enough fun today. So I won't mock them anymore, but JD, watch your back. I hope for you, you will never make a bad theory again.

@Kuroten:

Pretty much. I love that lazy bastard, yet I was assuming it made more sense for him to die than not. Only thing that's still off is the newspaper people's incompetence for printing that article without support…

That's the proof the WG is really unreliable.

JOHN D. BOWEN

@Airflow:

It's funny cause most of the people who thought Moria was dead are some of his biggest fans.

I thought he was dead… and I hate him

SGRaaize

@Tsukishima:

I had enough fun today. So I won't mock them anymore, but JD, watch your back. I hope for you, you will never make a bad theory again.

A "bad theory"
lol
Don't you get that, even though you were right on the basics, the one with the bad theory was you?

Get_It_Memorized

I really thought that the giant mass that sucked up Capone was an attack by Blackbeard, though it seems like it was just another crazy New World island.

And about Moria, I never considered him dead or alive and didn't really have an opinion either way. Same with Sabo.

Another thing I was wrong about was that, instead of training during a time skip, I thought that each of the Straw Hats would go on an adventure trying to get back to Luffy and grow stronger because of it. I was also in the camp of people who thought Chopper would end up stuck on the Boin Archipelago with Usopp, though he still might end up saving him after the inevitable time skip.

Tsukishima

@SGRaaize:

Don't you get that, even though you were right on the basics, the one with the bad theory was you?

You will never give up. I already said, I didn't care how he survived, it's Oda who decide it. At first, I only said Moria was still alive, It's you who force me to come up with some scenario, I just gave examples, I knew that wasn't the only way he could have survived, but I didn't care. I only wanted to show that if Oda wanted, it wouldn't be too difficult for him to keep Moria alive.

When I said bad theory, I should have put bad predictions, because what really mattered in the Moria's fate thread was to show if he was alive or not. If Moria was dead and the Pacifistas gave the final blow instead of Doflamingo, would people who thought Doflamingo killed him were wrong because he didn't kill him?

SGRaaize

@Tsukishima:

You will never give up. I already said, I didn't care how he survived, it's Oda who decide it. At first, I only said Moria was still alive, It's you who force me to come up with some scenario, I just gave examples, I knew that wasn't the only way he could have survived, but I didn't care. I only wanted to show that if Oda wanted, it wouldn't be too difficult for him to keep Moria alive.

When I said bad theory, I should have put bad predictions, because what really mattered in the Moria's fate thread was to show if he was alive or not. If Moria was dead and the Pacifistas gave the final blow instead of Doflamingo, would people who thought Doflamingo killed him were wrong because he didn't kill him?

I'm not only attacking you cause I'm butthurt (I will admit that's part of it), but Bad Prediction =/= Bad Theory
You had the right prediction and one of the worst theories
He had the wrong prediction but had the facts behind him, and I shall add that you never managed to find any possible contradiction to his facts, while you pulled stupid stuff out of your ass to try to justify Moria being alive
After sometime, you decided to just say "well, I'm still not sure, we'l see how Oda handles it"

Aldrich

It was actually pretty sensible to believe he'd die because of the way Oda characterized him all this time, because let's face it he's been pretty disappointing and incompetent for a character of his stature

On the other hand the idea never really sit well with me, and not just because I'm a fan, but I didn't like how Ace and WB dying supposedly opened the floodgates and made people dying left and right alright all of sudden

The two deaths of major characters we had in OP were huge events with massive consequences on the plot as a whole, and they were made so powerful specifically because no one expected them

Compare to Moria's supposed demise, snuffed off screen like a second rate Bellamy which just reeked of "I don't know what to do with this guy so I'll just kill him" lazyness, quite unlike Oda

Anyway I don't know where I'm going with this so I'll just stop here mghlbghlh

choperman

@SGRaaize:

I'm not only attacking you cause I'm butthurt (I will admit that's part of it), but Bad Prediction =/= Bad Theory
You had the right prediction and one of the worst theories
He had the wrong prediction but had the facts behind him, and I shall add that you never managed to find any possible contradiction to his facts, while you pulled stupid stuff out of your ass to try to justify Moria being alive
After sometime, you decided to just say "well, I'm still not sure, we'l see how Oda handles it"

your a pretty sad person you know, just admit you lost

your theory was stupid because you thought Oda killed someone important off screen, where as prior knowledge would have told you this was a bad idea, can't wait till bon-chan comes back idk when but I'm sure that will happen

SGRaaize

@choperman:

your a pretty sad person you know, just admit you lost

your theory was stupid because you thought Oda killed someone important off screen, where as prior knowledge would have told you this was a bad idea, can't wait till bon-chan comes back idk when but I'm sure that will happen

@SGRaaize:

You're waiting?
As in, looking at this thread everyday to await our responses so that you can snicker with approval and pat yourself in the shoulder?

I was wrong

Your lack of reading comprehension is disturbing

choperman

@SGRaaize:

Your lack of reading comprehension is disturbing

ahhhh there we go, then let me reword myself, STOP BEING A BITCH ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

is that better

Tsukishima

@SGRaaize:

I'm not only attacking you cause I'm butthurt (I will admit that's part of it), but Bad Prediction =/= Bad Theory
You had the right prediction and one of the worst theories

I didn't think my theory was so bad. I said Moria will escape. I knew Doflamingo and the Pacifistas would never leave him. And I was right there. Moria really managed to escape not alone, but he isn't alive because Doflamingo spares his life. The truth is if Moria used Doppelman, I don't think Doflamingo and the Pacifistas will chase him, but Absalom was a better idea. I mean, at least Doflamingo don't look dumb. But I don't think it changes a lot of thing, so I really can't agree when you say my theory was one of the worse.

Concerning the WG, what Oda did was even dumber that what I thought, I knew he didn't care much about the WG credibility, but I didn't expect that.
It seems they put it on the news without checking with Doflamingo. I mean, you can't say my theory was bad because of that. I couldn't predict they would be so incompetent.

Retsudo

Lol, people said Teach wouldn't show up in the war.

Gotta love people who can't comprehend the storytelling of a children's comic book.

Zik

I remember but I forget the reasoning for that.

I think they were saying that before he showed up in ID or the chap that it happened claiming he'd do something big elsewhere.

Retsudo

Pretty scary that people have problems comprehending Oda's storytelling.

Kabi

@Retsudo:

Lol, people said Teach wouldn't show up in the war.

Gotta love people who can't comprehend the storytelling of a children's comic book.

Gotta love how you still think that one piece is for children =/

Sea

One Piece is for 13+ years old. Oda said he write what a 15 years old would love to see.
It is not too childish for adult to enjoy.

h3h3h3

@Kabi:

Gotta love how you still think that one piece is for children =/

But it is.

SGRaaize

@Retsudo:

Lol, people said Teach wouldn't show up in the war.

Gotta love people who can't comprehend the storytelling of a children's comic book.

Hum?
Oda could just as easily write Blackbeard not caring about the war going on and picking something on Impel Down and go away
I mean, after all, Blackbeard's plan didn't even seem to involve Whitebeard, Blackbeard wanted any big bounty to kill, the fact that it ended up being Ace was a coincidence.
So yeah, not seeing what was so obvious about Blackbeard appearing at the war at all

Zik

What was obvious from a group I was in; believing BB would remain a shichi is that he'd fulfill his shichibukai duty and go to the war after recruiting in ID.

BB wanted a bounty to become a shihcibukai. We knew that when we first saw Laffiette. Becoming a shichibukai means showing up at the war (if you didn't think BB breaking in to ID didn't automatically make him lose his status).

SGRaaize

Well, I mean, although it sounds stupid to have Blackbeard attacking the prison and then going back to duty, I guess it plausible, considering this government is kinda dumb and useless, and considering that Boa Hancock can freely petrify marines while DoFlamingo can freely create chaos and enslave people

I'm happy he turned off the Shichibukai status quickly, though, although I wonder if it was really necessary for him to have it to enter Impel Down, derp, I mean, maybe it would have been more plausible if Blackbeard entered freely Impel Down and then suddenly destroyed it from the inside, but he outright entered in it all agressive

Caraccidential

@SGRaaize:

I'm happy he turned off the Shichibukai status quickly, though, although I wonder if it was really necessary for him to have it to enter Impel Down, derp, I mean, maybe it would have been more plausible if Blackbeard entered freely Impel Down and then suddenly destroyed it from the inside, but he outright entered in it all agressive

I thought he needed his Shichibukai status to pass the Gates of Justice, not just to enter Impel Down.

But I'm with you with the status thing. BB works much better as a loose cannon than as a part of the Shichibukai.

Zik

The reasoning was always that the shichibukai could do shit like that as long as in the end it benefited the WG/marines in the end.

It's BB's idea so it's not like the WG would okay him picking some ID prisoners to help him fight in the war. So he broke in. He could've done all that, killed WB with them and remained a shichi.

I said it in my post before but the way BB gave up the job himself was never brought up in the debate. PPL were just bent on thinking there's no way the WG would keep him as a shichi after doing it even if he killed WB.

Looking back if BB wanted to keep the job he could've blamed it all on Luffy, claimed he knew Luffy was invading ID and went to stop him and brought some ID prisoners who helped him chase Luffy out or some other wild lie deflecting all blame off of him.

Even now I still don't think if a shichibukai fucked up some WG spot but in turn something else was done that helped them out more than the loss of that establishment that they'd still strip them of their status.

Like lets say Croc got the ancient weapon but then said he wanted to remain a shichibukai and go off killing pirates in the NW with some marine help for the WG? They'd probably freeze Robin's bounty with a deal like that not kick him out. Or if it was found out that Kuma was a revolutionary but he brought the WG Dragon's head? He'd be a fucking hero.

SGRaaize

@Caraccidential:

I thought he needed his Shichibukai status to pass the Gates of Justice, not just to enter Impel Down.

But I'm with you with the status thing. BB works much better as a loose cannon than as a part of the Shichibukai.

Even then, he entered aggressive the whole way through, why did they open the gate for him, anyways?

@Zik:

The reasoning was always that the shichibukai could do shit like that as long as in the end it benefited the WG/marines in the end.

It's BB's idea so it's not like the WG would okay him picking some ID prisoners to help him fight in the war. So he broke in. He could've done all that, killed WB with them and remained a shichi.

I said it in my post before but the way BB gave up the job himself was never brought up in the debate. PPL were just bent on thinking there's no way the WG would keep him as a shichi after doing it even if he killed WB.

Looking back if BB wanted to keep the job he could've blamed it all on Luffy, claimed he knew Luffy was invading ID and went to stop him and brought some ID prisoners who helped him chase Luffy out or some other wild lie deflecting all blame off of him.

Even now I still don't think if a shichibukai fucked up some WG spot but in turn something else was done that helped them out more than the loss of that establishment that they'd still strip them of their status.

Like lets say Croc got the ancient weapon but then said he wanted to remain a shichibukai and go off killing pirates in the NW with some marine help for the WG? They'd probably freeze Robin's bounty with a deal like that not kick him out. Or if it was found out that Kuma was a revolutionary but he brought the WG Dragon's head? He'd be a fucking hero.

Yeah, he could've, and the World Government, being the dumbass organization it is, would have accepted it (after all, they accept enslavement from DoFlamingo, they don't truly care).

Thank god he didn't, though, as Caraccidental said it, Blackbeard is far better as an opponent to both the Marines and Luffy

Zik

The argument about why he became a shichibukai was disputed too but that's where the side I was on was wrong about. Didn't help that the way Luffy got in was due to a shichibukai

I felt you didn't need to be a shichibukai to get in to ID. Just be a badass; cross calm belt after eating and killing sea kings, bust through gates of justice with haki/hax DF, and then approach the front door of ID like a G or sneak in.

I don't think the WG would be that dumb if they let BB keep his status after killing WB for them. But I will say the way he actually did kill WB was cheap since Akainu did most of the work and his crew helped him. Plus I didn't even think BB would be the character that would have 2 DFs and steal WB's so under those circumstances the WG probably would've killed him.

The marines didn't willingly open the gates for BB. Lafitte hypnotized some marines so that any marine ship that approached the gate would open for them.

SGRaaize

No
I'm referring to when they entered Impel Down
The hynpnotization was just so that they could go back

Caraccidential

@SGRaaize:

Even then, he entered aggressive the whole way through, why did they open the gate for him, anyways?

Before they landed at Impel Down and started fucking shit up, they were still allies to the marines. So they were free to sail.

But Lafitte hypnotised a marine afterwards to open the gates, so now I'm not so sure anymore why he had to be a Shichibukai to open the gates.

dunno man, just posting.

Caraccidential

Ah! Here's the answer

!

He did need his Shichibukai title to pass the gates of Justice. Lafitte hypnotized the control room after they left to ensure a way back.

edit: wrong page :I

SGRaaize

Oh, nevermind, re-reading it, I got what happened now, makes sense, but it is hilariously over-complex

Blackbeard stole a Marine Battleship without anyone noticing
Laffite hyptnotized someone on the command center of MarineFord
The Marine Battleship passed through the gate, I'm guessing no one actually saw who was inside of it
Laffite hypnotized a person on the command center of Impel Down
Attack, shitstorm
Go back to the war, now with them hypnotized

Makes sense, but I can't help but think that Blackbeard could have just achieved the same without all the trouble of getting a Shichibukai, and don't come at me saying that he also planned this so that he could kill Whitebeard, because that was a pure coincidence

Edit: So basically, he needed the title of Shichibukai just so he could enter Marineford to steal a ship from there and go through the current?

SGRaaize

@Caraccidential:

Ah! Here's the answer

! [qimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/Trick-ot-Treater/16.jpg[/qimg]

He did need his Shichibukai title to pass the gates of Justice. Lafitte hypnotized the control room after they left to ensure a way back.

But that makes no sense, if people were suspecting Blackbeard as soon as they saw him cause he was supposed to be in the war, why would the gate be opened even if he was a Shichibukai?
Are you saying its like an automatic detector that detects if someone is a Shichibukai and let's them enter?

I think Oda screwed up on this one, lol

Zik

Lafitte could've hypnotized them when they initially stole the ship. So they opened it for them to get to ID.

Caraccidential

@SGRaaize:

But that makes no sense, if people were suspecting Blackbeard as soon as they saw him cause he was supposed to be in the war, why would the gate be opened even if he was a Shichibukai?

Well they at least wouldn't sink his ship because they'd still need him.

Maybe a Marine ship would go unnoticed near the Gates of Justice. And stealing an empty, docked ship instead of hijacking one would lower the chances of it getting missed…I think.

It works, but it could've been done much easier. Unless there's something about the security of the Gates we don't know about.

SGRaaize

@Zik

Hein?
That makes no sense

What I mean is that the Command Center of Impel Down (which is behind the gate of justice) let Blackbeard in even though it everyone suspected Blackbeard entering there
Laffite couldn't have hypnotized those guards, unless he was inside the gate of Impel Down before, but if he was, why would Blackbeard need to be a Shichibukai in the first place?
Or are you saying they visited Impel Down before to put the plan in practice?
If so, it makes sense, but I'm fairly sure that Oda didn't think of that and made a mistake

Edit:

@Caraccidential:

Well they at least wouldn't sink his ship because they'd still need him.

Maybe a Marine ship would go unnoticed near the Gates of Justice. And stealing an empty, docked ship instead of hijacking one would lower the chances of it getting missed…I think.

It works, but it could've been done much easier. Unless there's something about the security of the Gates we don't know about.

But Blackbeard said himself that the reason why he entered was because of his Shichibukai status (in the page you showed), meaning people noticed Blackbeard and thus knew he was a Shichibukai, and that's why they let him enter, which makes no sense cause they should have suspected it

Unless there is a Shichibukai-Detector in the gate

FireFistLuffy

@SGRaaize:

Makes sense, but I can't help but think that Blackbeard could have just achieved the same without all the trouble of getting a Shichibukai, and don't come at me saying that he also planned this so that he could kill Whitebeard, because that was a pure coincidence

Not trying come at you BB but if I remember right when he came into the war and Blackbeard blah blah said his whole reason for what he did towards Sengoku. He mentioned something like "that and the next reason is coming up" something along those lines.

I took that as him thinking Whitebeard already be dead or he just finish him off so he could steal his Devil fruit powers. Which what I thought was part of his plan as well.

parklane21

I thought that the gate of Impel Down is always open, and only on special circumstances will Magelan order the gate to be closed. And so is the gate of justice in marine hq. That's why reporters are free to roam there after the war.

Gia Sado

Orrrrrr maybe he used the marine code that momonga used to get into impel down.

Heres the better question: How the fuck did he get out of impel down (Gates of Justice). I mean, there was no bon clay to help this time.

Zik

@SGRaaize:

@Zik

Hein?
That makes no sense

What I mean is that the Command Center of Impel Down (which is behind the gate of justice) let Blackbeard in even though it everyone suspected Blackbeard entering there
Laffite couldn't have hypnotized those guards, unless he was inside the gate of Impel Down before, but if he was, why would Blackbeard need to be a Shichibukai in the first place?
Or are you saying they visited Impel Down before to put the plan in practice?
If so, it makes sense, but I'm fairly sure that Oda didn't think of that and made a mistake

Edit:

But Blackbeard said himself that the reason why he entered was because of his Shichibukai status (in the page you showed), meaning people noticed Blackbeard and thus knew he was a Shichibukai, and that's why they let him enter, which makes no sense cause they should have suspected it

Unless there is a Shichibukai-Detector in the gate

I'm saying he hypnotized the marines on the Marineford side. Then as they got to the gate to ID the ID guards automatically opened it because it's a marine ship and that marine ship already got the okay from the previous gate.

There'd be no suspicion.

Zkaiser

I thought Akainu was going to have an awesome rose DF.

SGRaaize

@Zik:

I'm saying he hypnotized the marines on the Marineford side. Then as they got to the gate to ID the ID guards automatically opened it because it's a marine ship and that marine ship already got the okay from the previous gate.

There'd be no suspicion.

But then why did Blackbeard say he needed his Shichibukai status to open the gate?

@FireFistLuffy:

Not trying come at you BB but if I remember right when he came into the war and Blackbeard blah blah said his whole reason for what he did towards Sengoku. He mentioned something like "that and the next reason is coming up" something along those lines.

I took that as him thinking Whitebeard already be dead or he just finish him off so he could steal his Devil fruit powers. Which what I thought was part of his plan as well.

If that was his master plan all the time, why did he just want a big bounty instead of anything related to Whitebeard?
I mean, he didn't know Luffy was Ace's brother, he just went after him cause he was 100 Million

Rori

uh maybe BB needed the shichibukai position so he could have access on marineford so he could go to impel down unsuspected remember what was that called again?, that special pathway so you could easily go to ID, Marineford and EL(forgot it) we all know that the only ones who sails there are WG ships so they won't mind at all well anyway, It's just that his master plan to get WB's DF got a lot faster because of fate he needed a guy w/ enough reputation and capture him/her(he chose luffy tho) to become shichi but fate really is on his side Ace showed up!, that's instant access to shichi position and a war against WB. But in order to remain in power after he killed WB he needed some strong crewmembers thus Impel Down comes in, choosing the most dangerous criminals in the world, just what would you expect for the mighty villain in OP lol

Tsukishima

@SGRaaize:

If that was his master plan all the time, why did he just want a big bounty instead of anything related to Whitebeard?
I mean, he didn't know Luffy was Ace's brother, he just went after him cause he was 100 Million

He is a bit dumb, that's all. I think his initial plan was to use his Shichibukai position to free the lvl6 prisonners, and then to attack WB with his new crew and steal his DF.

SGRaaize

@Rori:

uh maybe BB needed the shichibukai position so he could have access on marineford so he could go to impel down unsuspected remember what was that called again?, that special pathway so you could easily go to ID, Marineford and EL(forgot it) we all know that the only ones who sails there are WG ships so they won't mind at all well anyway, It's just that his master plan to get WB's DF got a lot faster because of fate he needed a guy w/ enough reputation and capture him/her(he chose luffy tho) to become shichi but fate really is on his side Ace showed up!, that's instant access to shichi position and a war against WB. But in order to remain in power after he killed WB he needed some strong crewmembers thus Impel Down comes in, choosing the most dangerous criminals in the world, just what would you expect for the mighty villain in OP lol

That's what I thought to, but Blackbeard outright said to the government that he needed the Shichibukai position to be allowed in the Gates of Justice of Impel Down
…
Why?

Zik

@SGRaaize:

But then why did Blackbeard say he needed his Shichibukai status to open the gate?

Didn't he say as a pirate he wouldn't have been able to get to any of the gates of justice without getting his ass handed to him?

To him being a shichibukai allowed him to be at Mariejoia and then Marine HQ where his crew then stole the ship and went to ID.

I guess for a guy like BB he probably didn't want to take the extra hard way. Especially since he doesn't have a ship of his own yet.

FireFistLuffy

@SGRaaize:

If that was his master plan all the time, why did he just want a big bounty instead of anything related to Whitebeard?
I mean, he didn't know Luffy was Ace's brother, he just went after him cause he was 100 Million

I wasn't saying that was his "master plan" for all we know he is still progressing with his plan. I see it as it could had just been part of his plan. About the bounty as you know he wanted it for shichibukia title. I can't relate it to Whitebeard.

paranoik0s

i thought the crew would just be the first 5 SHs