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    Sanji annoys me (rant)

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    • changsho
      changsho @GoAnderson
      @GoAnderson last edited by
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      You Usopp loving people rock!! ;_;

      Sanji used to be my least favorite character too, but I changed my opinion when he showed that he's more than a libido-driven chump ("To forgive a woman's lies is a man's duty!"). He is resourceful and reliable in almost any other field, proving that brute strength and fighting skills alone does not determine how "cool" a person is.

      Although his inability to hit women endangers his nakama, I am certain that he is the one that feels the most pain. He chose not to violate his code of honor, but in the end it puts Nami in danger. Being powerless to protect his beloved like he always does, I think it's safe to say that he's the one that suffers the most.

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      • J
        Junkman @changsho
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        @changsho:

        Although his inability to hit women endangers his nakama, I am certain that he is the one that feels the most pain. He chose not to violate his code of honor, but in the end it puts Nami in danger. Being powerless to protect his beloved like he always does, I think it's safe to say that he's the one that suffers the most.

        i think that's why people get angry.

        take this usopp is fighting a super powerful woman fighter and only sanji is there to help out. usopp is getting his butt kicked but sanji won't help fight her because she is a girl. so usopp dies and sanji thinks to himself i'm sorry but i've got a code to live to.

        nah that doesn't fly right with me.

        Ohara COWMAKAZE ligeia D L 5 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Ohara
          Ohara @Junkman
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          @Junkman:

          i think that's why people get angry.

          take this usopp is fighting a super powerful woman fighter and only sanji is there to help out. usopp is getting his butt kicked but sanji won't help fight her because she is a girl. so usopp dies and sanji thinks to himself i'm sorry but i've got a code to live to.

          nah that doesn't fly right with me.

          I think that in a situation like that he would try to take most of the damage from the fighter while Usopp looks for a way to beat the lady fighter. Sanji is going to something amazing because as Many people here have said, Sanji is not going to be forgotten, Oda has not done that to him any of the times he dissappeared. Whatever he does I will be okay with it, but my nature to try and think ahead keeps saying he is going to help Sogeking fight.

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            Aldrich
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            Sogeking doesn't need no help, thank you very much. What would be the point of all what happend in W7 before if Sogeking had to be rescued/helped by a more powerful fighter? As it has been said before, Sanji can shine without stealing Sogeking's moment of fame.

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            • COWMAKAZE
              COWMAKAZE @Junkman
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              @Junkman:

              i think that's why people get angry.

              take this usopp is fighting a super powerful woman fighter and only sanji is there to help out. usopp is getting his butt kicked but sanji won't help fight her because she is a girl. so usopp dies and sanji thinks to himself i'm sorry but i've got a code to live to.

              nah that doesn't fly right with me.

              Exactly. Thank you for agreeing with what you were arguing against.

              The point is, Sanji is trying to get better. And he will, one day. He'll come through in the end. But for now, just as you said, he'd do that. But you know what? He'd feel more pain in it than Usopp did, even if the woman used "HolycrapthishurtsalotIwishIweredeadbecausethishurtssodamnmuch HolycrapthishurtsalotIwishIweredeadbecausethishurtssodamnmuch" Fruit.

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              • J
                Junkman @Aldrich
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                @Aldrich:

                Sogeking doesn't need no help, thank you very much. What would be the point of all what happend in W7 before if Sogeking had to be rescued/helped by a more powerful fighter? As it has been said before, Sanji can shine without stealing Sogeking's moment of fame.

                that wasn't the point, you could take usopp and put any crew member instead. my point was sanji thus far puts girls in front of his crewmates and that is why he comes off as unlikable.

                how to make this work without sanji losing his girl crazyness?

                he kicks that CP9 girl and says, "You ain't no lady, I can see that now."

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                • ligeia
                  ligeia @Junkman
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                  Even though I'm glad he at least tried to defend himself and at least made a cursory attempt to retrieve the key, I'm still disappointed. And I can't admire his code of ethics either. It's one thing to not hit someone who's incapable of defending him/herself or is already outmatched, another to refuse to strike someone dangerous and powerful, and refuse when doing so puts the lives of others in jeopardy.

                  I'd be fine with it if it was just Sanji fighting for himself, but risking the lives of his nakama? Usopp "being a coward" is completely different. When did Usopp fail to rise to an occasion comparable to this?

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                    Junkman @COWMAKAZE
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                    @COWMAKAZE:

                    Exactly. Thank you for agreeing with what you were arguing against.

                    The point is, Sanji is trying to get better. And he will, one day. He'll come through in the end. But for now, just as you said, he'd do that. But you know what? He'd feel more pain in it than Usopp did, even if the woman used "HolycrapthishurtsalotIwishIweredeadbecausethishurtssodamnmuch HolycrapthishurtsalotIwishIweredeadbecausethishurtssodamnmuch" Fruit.

                    agreeing?

                    i got no sympathy for sanji and saying sanji hurts the most is bull, that's like beating your kids and saying how it hurts you more then it does them.

                    "Nami i know it hurts getting your butt kicked, but you have to realize it hurts me even more!"

                    to which nami replies

                    "I hate you please die."

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                    • A
                      Aldrich @Junkman
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                      @Junkman:

                      that wasn't the point, you could take usopp and put any crew member instead. my point was sanji thus far puts girls in front of his crewmates and that is why he comes off as unlikable.

                      how to make this work without sanji losing his girl crazyness?

                      he kicks that CP9 girl and says, "You ain't no lady, I can see that now."

                      I wasn't replying to you but to Ohara. I should have made that clear by quoting him but I thought that as my post directly followed his it wasn't necessary, my bad.

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                        d.Lughie @Junkman
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                        OOT!!
                        Fighting doesn't necessarily mean hand-to-hand fight or mouth-to-mouth fight. And to fight does not necessarily means that a person is brave or that person is a hero. This is my opinion.

                        and as for ussop being an asshole running not fighting coward guy, i'm totally against it!!

                        Im not saying that that is not true. That is what Ussop does usually. But when the time comes he is always there for the StrawHats!! Ussop put aside all his fear and cowardness to put up a fight. Although his fighting style isn't as good as others are (running, lying, hiding, and some good range attack ones though) at least he put up a fight and even won sometimes. This is not an easy thing for someone like ussop to do.

                        Although this seems like a lame excuse for him being a run-away coward,
                        still, to fight and overcome your characteristic and fear is i think one of the bravest and one of the greatest achievements in life. And this is what ussop has been doing for sometime (even though most of the time he doesn't :happy:)

                        p.s: sorry for the crappy sentences (hard for me to put it together)😉

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                        Malintex_Terek 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Malintex_Terek
                          Malintex_Terek @d.Lughie
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                          COMPLETELY off topic, I know, but it's Easter and I should point out this thread number is "6666". Be nice, kids. :laugh:

                          MUV-LUV ALTERNATIVE

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                            notme @Junkman
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                            @Junkman:

                            but Zoro always gets there on time to fight for his friends, chopper will stand up for his friends, usopp will not run away for his friends, and nami will give up money for her friends.

                            but sanji won't hit a girl for his friends.

                            See, this is why I liked using Zoro's sense of direction as a parallel for Sanji not being able to hit a woman. You are saying that Zoro will "always get there on time for his friends," but that doesn't have to be the case at all. If Zoro's lack of direction made him late by even 1 minute he could easily be putting his nakama's life on the line.

                            The only reason that something like this probably won't happen is because Oda wouldn't do such a thing (I don't have the manga with me right now though, but how much did Zoro's lack of direction affect him not making it to Luffy's execution at Logue Town? I can't remember.).

                            Still, some people are harping on Sanji's inability to hit a woman and how it could result in Robin dying or that it could result in another of his nakama dying. Yet we all know that it won't. Just like we all know that Zoro's lack of direction will never result in him being too late to save his nakama, or that one of Usopp's lies won't attract a pirate hunter trying to hunt down his 3,000 followers who could kill a SH member…

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                            • sabret00the
                              sabret00the @changsho
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                              @changsho:

                              Ey, I know you don't like Usopp, but stop being an ass. Throwing insulting comments about him when you're discussing Sanji is lame.

                              In all honesty, it wasn't having a go at Usopp but leveling an argument against Sanji, i had similar pops at Zoro and Luffy in order to show that they also have flaws/weaknesses.

                              That said, the Usopp brigade do make me laugh (not in a you're negative way, but rather in a cutesy way).

                              I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler

                              changsho 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Le Lawliet
                                Le Lawliet
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                                Just to remind you all, Sanji's not the only one here who suffers from believing some things or people in the world should be destroyed. Robin doesn't want any ruins destroyed, remember her fight with Yama? And remember Zoro's words to Luffy about what would happen if Luffy got in the way of Zoro's ambition?

                                Avatar provided by Ferntree on DeviantArt.

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                                • Paulie
                                  Paulie @Malintex_Terek
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                                  @Malintex_Terek:

                                  Sanji's out of the Enies Lobby battle until Oda SAYS he's back. Enough, already! >.<;

                                  I'm getting annoyed by this most of all.

                                  Being a Sanji fan myself, I don't like it when people dislike him. But I can tolerate that, because they have their reasons.

                                  But why do people insist on saying "He's out! He's not going to fight!" when he's obviously, well, not?

                                  He's still awake, guys.

                                  Does ANYBODY here HONESTLY think that a Straw Hat is out for the count before he's gone completely?

                                  He got roughed up a bit and was lying on the ground. Oh no, he's not going to be able to fight any more! ….How does that work? It doesn't, at least not for One Piece.

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                                  • Kibagami
                                    Kibagami
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                                    I just want to say that I like all the characters in the crew, maybe not equally but nonetheless they all have favorable qualities, and for that I like them all.

                                    I don't think anyone here has mentioned how Sanji is only crew member with the 007 traits. The Mr. Prince scheme and Puffing Tom attack was ALLL SANJi. I can respect anyone who can keep things on the down low, and as far as I'm concerned, Sanji is the only Strawhat who knows how to operate in the shadows. The guy is smart and capable!! Robin has shown in the past that she is capable of such actions as well, but so far she hasn't really done shit in that department. Of course I agree that Sanji is totally flawed and getting owned my Kalifa is a HUGE hit on Sanji, but he's cool in a totally unique way that no other StrawHats can compare. You guys are over stimulated by the ass kicking aspect of One Piece, and I am too, but it's not just about how many cans of whoopass a character can dish out.

                                    Yes.. I want Sanji to kick some CP9 ass. Yes.. his lost to Kalifa totally makes him an idiot. But he's got a trait that no other Stawhat uses, and that is finess.e

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                                    • Zephos
                                      Zephos @Kibagami
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                                      If this character bashing then lordy.
                                      What the hell cAN you do around here?

                                      I thought character bashing was…
                                      "Sanji fucking sucks, I hope Oda has him die."

                                      Not..

                                      "long analysis without any unnessacary prodding"

                                      Let the man bitch!
                                      If this is indeed a forum worth fighting for then we shall hear bitching of a caliber higher than usual.
                                      BITCHING. IS AN ART.:ninja:

                                      Anyway. I disagree. Sanji is cool. Zoro fucking sucks.
                                      And Oda sucks worse. But only because he created Sanji.And not Zoro. Kraft created Zoro.
                                      It tastes good.
                                      Sanji tastes like American wine. Bad.

                                      Cap'n Carter 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • changsho
                                        changsho @sabret00the
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                                        @sabret00the:

                                        In all honesty, it wasn't having a go at Usopp but leveling an argument against Sanji, i had similar pops at Zoro and Luffy in order to show that they also have flaws/weaknesses.

                                        That said, the Usopp brigade do make me laugh (not in a you're negative way, but rather in a cutesy way).

                                        While it's true that he often runs away in the past, the Usopp I know now is slowly trying to overcome that current weakness by showing crazy stunts and risking his life like he never did before. You seem to be stuck with the notion of the old, under-developed 'Sopp.

                                        And yes, the Usopp brigade is cute. In a good way 😛

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                                        • CosmicDebris
                                          CosmicDebris @changsho
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                                          You laugh now, but while you sleep at night the Usopp Brigade leaves a severed fish head at the foot of your bed.:ninja:

                                          But seriously…the comment about Usopp being too afraid of the WG to save Robin is complete nonsense and you know it.

                                          Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa

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                                          • L
                                            lpzie
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                                            I'm patient… I'll wait for what oda has to say/draw about this kinda stuff. 😃

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                                              loulou @Junkman
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                                              @Junkman:

                                              take this usopp is fighting a super powerful woman fighter and only sanji is there to help out. usopp is getting his butt kicked but sanji won't help fight her because she is a girl. so usopp dies and sanji thinks to himself i'm sorry but i've got a code to live to.

                                              nah that doesn't fly right with me.

                                              I don't think this is a good example, because if this situation were to happen, Sanji would interfere. Not as an attacker, but as a defender.

                                              One of the theories flying about is that Sanji will get up and help Nami by defending her from Califa's attacks while she acts on the offensive. I don't personally think it's going to happen, but it's plausible, and something Sanji would do because he's not breaking his rule at all.

                                              He's found loopholes in his fighting codes before.

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                                              • Kibagami
                                                Kibagami
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                                                I'm telling you guys 00-Sanji will save the day once more!!! Sanji will come up with another covert idea and save everyone's lives.

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                                                • Cap'n Carter
                                                  Cap'n Carter @Zephos
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                                                  @Zephos:

                                                  If this character bashing then lordy.
                                                  What the hell cAN you do around here?

                                                  I thought character bashing was…
                                                  "Sanji fucking sucks, I hope Oda has him die."

                                                  Not..

                                                  "long analysis without any unnessacary prodding"

                                                  Let the man bitch!
                                                  If this is indeed a forum worth fighting for then we shall hear bitching of a caliber higher than usual.
                                                  BITCHING. IS AN ART.:ninja:

                                                  Anyway. I disagree. Sanji is cool. Zoro fucking sucks.
                                                  And Oda sucks worse. But only because he created Sanji.And not Zoro. Kraft created Zoro.
                                                  It tastes good.
                                                  Sanji tastes like American wine. Bad.

                                                  this is a brilliant post.

                                                  Even though the whole "love-cook" thing kind of annoys me, Sanji is one of the few Strawhats I like right now. All of them kind of annoyed me in this arc.. Right now Sanji and Chopper are the only ones I like. And if Franky joins he'll be my immediate favorite.

                                                  I used to love Usopp, but I kind of grew out of him. And his retardedness in this arc didn't help, I don't really like him anymore.

                                                  the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit

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                                                  • COWMAKAZE
                                                    COWMAKAZE @ligeia
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                                                    @ligeia:

                                                    Even though I'm glad he at least tried to defend himself and at least made a cursory attempt to retrieve the key, I'm still disappointed. And I can't admire his code of ethics either. It's one thing to not hit someone who's incapable of defending him/herself or is already outmatched, another to refuse to strike someone dangerous and powerful, and refuse when doing so puts the lives of others in jeopardy.

                                                    I'd be fine with it if it was just Sanji fighting for himself, but risking the lives of his nakama? Usopp "being a coward" is completely different. When did Usopp fail to rise to an occasion comparable to this?

                                                    Since when do you get to choose what morals you are engraved with? I agree with the (wo)man that said Sanji's morals and ethics are most like OCD - he knows it's bad, but can't do anything about it. If I took a little kid, right here, right now, and told him his entire life "Listen, sonny, you gotta hate every lady what walks the planet" he would grow up thinking this is the case. He would spend every waking moment of his life believing this. Don't believe me? Chances are, your parents taught never to jump off a cliff as a kid. The only reason you knew that it would do something bad to you was because they said so - you had no reason to believe otherwise. This is basically what happened to Sanji as a child, as we can judge from his actions, only to a far greater extent. Take that same example, and now imagine your parents beat you up or something every time you got anywhere near a big pit or drop. You'd be reeeeeally friggin' scared of them, wouldn't you? They'd be your worst fear, even if later on in your life someone demonstrated and showed you that at the bottom of every pit is a land made entirely of ice cream and cakes. Assume this happened to Sanji. There is some memory far back in his past that is requiring him to follow this one rule, like it's a law of physics or of the universe. It's been implanted, as we can judge by him hating himself for following this. Ethics alone can not do this.

                                                    Also, yes, he would be hurt more if Nami or Robin died as a result of him than she would from the physical pain. Ever read Hamlet? Hell, ever watch the Lion King, which is exactly the same thing? I'll use the latter, as it's probably more accesible to more people: Simba leaves his home forever because the turmoil from his father's death rests on him. His father got stampeded by wildebeest, which is possibly the most painful death I can think of. Yet, his entire life, that horrible moment rests on him. He almost manages to block out his childhood, and when remnants of it come floating in it kills him. Thinking he was he cause of his father's death traumatized the kid to a ridiculous amount. And this was just a Disney movie, meaning it had to be toned down for kids - imagine what it would be like in real life. There is not much that is more traumatizing and painful than watching/being responible for the death of a good friend.

                                                    Finally, people keep saying that "Oh, Usopp is completely different because he always come through in the end." Err… I wasn't aware "the end" was here yet. Of course, how could I be so stupid! Obviously Sanji is far inferior because he hasn't come to the rescue in an end that DOESN'T EVEN EXIST YET.

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                                                    • Malintex_Terek
                                                      Malintex_Terek @Paulie
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                                                      @Paulie:

                                                      Being a Sanji fan myself, I don't like it when people dislike him. But I can tolerate that, because they have their reasons.

                                                      Paulie, that just makes you a bigot. Seriously, people have tastes; I myself am not partial to any Strawhat (anymore), so while I sympathise with Sanji fans, like yourself, the level of whining is OUTRAGEOUS. My comment was unbiased; we can assume Sanji's not going to fight anymore unless Oda decides to call him back in. Nami told Sanji to hold tight and let her handle it; that's a good indication of how he's not going to see any further action, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of more fighting. Such a conclusion is_logical_, isn't it?

                                                      @Paulie:

                                                      He got roughed up a bit and was lying on the ground. Oh no, he's not going to be able to fight any more! ….How does that work? It doesn't, at least not for One Piece.

                                                      Sanji almost lost the fight with Bon Clay, and he looks way worse now. When a person has to resort to saying "at least…" where "..." represents anything, it's a good indicator of internal conflict; Sanji fans would rather not admit that Sanji's getting stiffed (for the most part) on the isle of Enies Lobby, so they use confirmation bias (or selective information) to support their own views while disregarding conflicting information.

                                                      Basically, yes, Sanji can talk. He's also glassed over, bruised, broken, and compacted. That does, by no means (in OP) indicate that he's permanently out of the fight; for the time being, he'll have to sit the fights out.

                                                      MUV-LUV ALTERNATIVE

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                                                      • Paulie
                                                        Paulie @Malintex_Terek
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                                                        @Malintex_Terek:

                                                        Paulie, that just makes you a bigot. Seriously, people have tastes.

                                                        So I'm a bigot for accepting people dislike him, but not liking the fact they do? How so? Do I HAVE to like the fact that people don't like my favorite character? Hell no I don't. But I don't yell at them for not liking him. I think that makes me a pretty decent person.

                                                        @Malintex_Terek:

                                                        I myself am not partial to any Strawhat (anymore), so while I sympathise with Sanji fans, like yourself, the level of whining is OUTRAGEOUS. My comment was unbiased; we can assume Sanji's not going to fight anymore unless Oda decides to call him back in. Nami told Sanji to hold tight and let her handle it; that's a good indication of how he's not going to see any further action, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of more fighting. Such a conclusion is logical, isn't it?

                                                        Why can you assume he won't fight any more?

                                                        Nami didn't tell Sanji not to fight any more, she told him to leave Califa to her. That's a big difference.

                                                        It's rather illogical to assume he won't get a fight when there's plenty left for him to fight and no reason (using shounen logic) for him to not fight.

                                                        @Malintex_Terek:

                                                        Sanji almost lost the fight with Bon Clay, and he looks way worse now.

                                                        He's glossed over, but otherwise doesn't look a lick worse.

                                                        Zoro looked a HELL of a lot worse during half of his fights, but he still fought. Usopp looked worse during the fight against Mr. 4 and Miss Merry Christmas. They still fought, did they not?

                                                        @Malintex_Terek:

                                                        When a person has to resort to saying "at least…" where "..." represents anything, it's a good indicator of internal conflict; Sanji fans would rather not admit that Sanji's getting stiffed (for the most part) on the isle of Enies Lobby, so they use confirmation bias (or selective information) to support their own views while disregarding conflicting information.

                                                        Where is this conflicting information?

                                                        Seriously. This is the point I'm bringing up. There isn't any.

                                                        @Malintex_Terek:

                                                        Basically, yes, Sanji can talk. He's also glassed over, bruised, broken, and compacted. That does, by no means (in OP) indicate that he's permanently out of the fight; for the time being, he'll have to sit the fights out.

                                                        You say it yourself; there's nothing to indicate he's out of the fight. In OP, this is little to nothing. So why does he have to sit anything out?

                                                        And worse, why do people rag on people for saying he won't, when it's pretty clear he has no reason to?

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                                                        • Malintex_Terek
                                                          Malintex_Terek @Paulie
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                                                          @Paulie:

                                                          So I'm a bigot for accepting people dislike him, but not liking the fact they do? How so? Do I HAVE to like the fact that people don't like my favorite character? Hell no I don't. But I don't yell at them for not liking him. I think that makes me a pretty decent person.

                                                          I misread your post. I thought you said I "can't" tolerate that. I apologise, really. It's ironic that I, of all people, was talking about confirmation bias. :sad:

                                                          Meh, it's not just my reading, though. My spelling as of late sucks, too. ~.~;

                                                          @Paulie:

                                                          Why can you assume he won't fight any more?

                                                          Nami didn't tell Sanji not to fight any more, she told him to leave Califa to her. That's a big difference.

                                                          My primary reasoning is that there are a decreasing number of targets available. People are assuming Sanji will get up after being beaten and take on Jyabura; I find this highly unlikely unless Chopper gets to treat his wounds and give him recovery time, which seems unlikely because all the fights are occuring simultaneously. Since Califa has the necessary key, she is the "key" to unlocking the Sogeking + Zoro battle; as such, she's going to be a tougher opponent than Kumadori and Fukurou. Because Sanji wouldn't fight her, he recieved a tough beating.

                                                          Also, my paraphrase was that Nami told Sanji to "sit tight", as opposed to "not fight anymore". That doesn't imply Sanji's finished, just that he's probably not going to do much in this battle unless Oda decides to have Sanji recieve a second wind. Remember, Oda is speaking through the characters, and by having Nami say that, it's an indication of "Sanji's not battling Califa anymore". It's a symbolic representation, much like how the handcuffs were a plot device to prolong the Zoro & Sogeking battle.

                                                          @Paulie:

                                                          It's rather illogical to assume he won't get a fight when there's plenty left for him to fight and no reason (using shounen logic) for him to not fight.

                                                          See the above. Why are people selecting Jyabura, of all the CP9, as the prime target for Sanji? Because, "Kumadori, Fukurou, Califa, and Kaku are going to fall to the others, so that leaves Jyabura". Up until now, I wasn't really sure what Sanji-fans wanted; a fight, or development? In terms of fights, Zoro and Sanji are actually quite boring; kicks and slashes. Nothing new, really. Sanji proved how much of a bad-arse he was against Califa while illustrating the true depth of his character; that's development. Chopper fans wanted development, and instead he went ape. I consider that less development; sure, he's willing to give everything up for Robin, but the sacrifice is his mind and body.

                                                          THIS is why I find Sanji fans annoying. It's not that they want Sanji to grow as a character or get in a fight, they're just AFRAID of having their favourite character UPSTAGED for two major arcs. Well, it happens to EVERYONE, so please, please, please, GET OVER IT! It's not like Oda is going to just shelve Sanji like Toriyama did with all the other non-bruiser characters; he's an essential part of the team and has a dream to boot.

                                                          @Paulie:

                                                          He's glossed over, but otherwise doesn't look a lick worse.

                                                          Haha, I dunno; he looks kinda "licked" to me. 😉

                                                          @Paulie:

                                                          Zoro looked a HELL of a lot worse during half of his fights, but he still fought. Usopp looked worse during the fight against Mr. 4 and Miss Merry Christmas. They still fought, did they not?

                                                          Point taken, Usopp had his skull fractured. If we were in Alabasta, I would have assumed Usopp would have gone down after that; if he DID go down, I would have guessed that he wouldn't get back up. Usopp fought on; however, that does NOT imply that the same will happen here. It doesn't refute or accept the future, actually, which is why I'm standing neutral on Oda's intention for Sanji. I just can't stand the whining.

                                                          @Paulie:

                                                          Where is this conflicting information?

                                                          Seriously. This is the point I'm bringing up. There isn't any.

                                                          See above. I'm looking at Sanji with white eyes, a bloody suit, bruses, broken teeth, a pained expression, slurred speech and a glassy touch; the Sanji-fans seem to overlook all that material. 😕

                                                          @Paulie:

                                                          You say it yourself; there's nothing to indicate he's out of the fight. In OP, this is little to nothing. So why does he have to sit anything out?

                                                          And worse, why do people rag on people for saying he won't, when it's pretty clear he has no reason to?

                                                          Here's an example of confirmation bias. I gave you all the reasons as to why he's temporarily incapacitated, but you assert that there's "nothing to indicate that he's out of the fight".

                                                          MUV-LUV ALTERNATIVE

                                                          Making Anime and Manga OBSOLETE since 2006

                                                          PM me for details

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                                                          • bevin
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                                                            Okay, I'd just like to point out that not ALL Sanji fans are doing this. I'd classify myself as one and I have no desire whatsoever to see him snake someone else's fight out from under them. That'd just be cheap for everyone involved. Sanji's had enough great moments in this storyarc so far that if Oda decided that was it for him this round, that'd be okay with me– especially because it'd really light a fire under him emotionally to do better next time and THEN you can expect some great stuff. That idea excites me a lot, but honestly, I trust Oda enough at this point to just sit back and see what he does with him now. If he fights more this time around, I doubt it'll be a cheap fight with someone else's opponent, and I'd be curious to see what happens. I'm content to keep my mouth shut and wait and I know I'm not the only one out there.

                                                            If you spoiler me, I will eat you with tater tots.

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                                                            • Gadus
                                                              Gadus @Malintex_Terek
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                                                              @Malintex_Terek:

                                                              Sanji's out of the Enies Lobby battle until Oda SAYS he's back. Enough, already! >.<;

                                                              I just took this to mean that we should just wait and see what Oda plans. I'd agree that Sanji is currently "out of the Enies Lobby battle," because he is currently not fighting and no CP9 has been matched up against him since he encountered Califa. I haven't really seen much strong evidence foreshadowing that Sanji is going to fight in the future, so I agree with Malintex_Terek that we can assume that currently "Sanji's out of the Enies Lobby battle." So "until Oda SAYS he's back" I would say that, no, Sanji is not fighting right now. I don't think this says anything about Sanji not fighting in the future or Sanji being out of the action permanently. He'll fight in the future if or when Oda puts him back in the ring. That's all I got out of it, and I agree. But I misunderstand things a lot so who knows…

                                                              Well, it happens to EVERYONE, so please, please, please, GET OVER IT!

                                                              As for asking people to stop whining, I suppose people can do as they please as long as they aren't breaking any rules. -Not that I am accusing anybody of whining

                                                              But ya, I forgot if I was gonna make an argument. Oh well. I blatantly disregard so and so's opinion with my large capital letters so on and so forth. :ohmy:

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                                                              • sabret00the
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                                                                I'm suprised Bucc hasn't appeared in this thread, he's been amongst the most vocal in detailing Sanji amongst the weakest on One Piece since his loss to Calipher, i actually find it interesting how Integrity is the measure of ones weakness as opposed to strength and i fail to realise how it figures into your physical abilities, especially when we all saw that Calipha was clearly no match for Sanji in the slightest.

                                                                I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler

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                                                                • Cap'n Carter
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                                                                  ill defen sanji to the deth!!!

                                                                  the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit

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                                                                  • COWMAKAZE
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                                                                    @bevin:

                                                                    Okay, I'd just like to point out that not ALL Sanji fans are doing this. I'd classify myself as one and I have no desire whatsoever to see him snake someone else's fight out from under them. That'd just be cheap for everyone involved. Sanji's had enough great moments in this storyarc so far that if Oda decided that was it for him this round, that'd be okay with me– especially because it'd really light a fire under him emotionally to do better next time and THEN you can expect some great stuff. That idea excites me a lot, but honestly, I trust Oda enough at this point to just sit back and see what he does with him now. If he fights more this time around, I doubt it'll be a cheap fight with someone else's opponent, and I'd be curious to see what happens. I'm content to keep my mouth shut and wait and I know I'm not the only one out there.

                                                                    Thank you very much. People ragging on Sanji bugs me a little, but not too much. People making generalizations and ragging on Sanji fans is what gets me. I definitely don't want him to steal Usopp's fight, I agree. I've been arguing for him to try and salvage what little integrity Sanji fans have.

                                                                    Anyway, thank you so much. That was so well worded and summed up all my thoughs on the current situation quite nicely.

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                                                                      Junkman @COWMAKAZE
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                                                                      so sanji steals usopps fight and usopps all like, "Yes!"

                                                                      but then usopp is all like "No…"

                                                                      so he beats Luffy and fights Lucci. and beats him too.

                                                                      and becomes the pirate king.

                                                                      Usopp have my babies.

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                                                                      • ligeia
                                                                        ligeia @COWMAKAZE
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                                                                        @COWMAKAZE:

                                                                        Since when do you get to choose what morals you are engraved with? I agree with the (wo)man that said Sanji's morals and ethics are most like OCD - he knows it's bad, but can't do anything about it.

                                                                        …

                                                                        Finally, people keep saying that "Oh, Usopp is completely different because he always come through in the end." Err... I wasn't aware "the end" was here yet. Of course, how could I be so stupid! Obviously Sanji is far inferior because he hasn't come to the rescue in an end that DOESN'T EVEN EXIST YET.

                                                                        I don't know how the rest of these fights will fall through, and I don't know what role Sanji may play in it. I don't feel I indicated as such in my original post, but speaking for myself, in no way have I ever felt Sanji is "inferior" to Usopp because of events that have not yet transpired. (I have a tendency to write long run-on sentences, sorry about that…)

                                                                        What I do feel is that in that moment, when he was facing off against Califa, he made a choice. A choice to not fight an opponent based solely on her gender, and a choice that carried potentially grave consequences. I call it a choice, because even though the morals/ethics/principles one carries may be the result of childhood "engraving", that doesn't absolve the responsibility of facing up to the consequences of any decision one makes (try making that argument in court...).

                                                                        Perhaps Sanji felt he couldn't do anything about it at that moment - but that's not to say it won't change in the future. If it does, fine. If it doesn't...fine. If nothing ever happens, I won't hate Sanji, but I'll still disagree with his actions at that moment.

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                                                                        • COWMAKAZE
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                                                                          @ligeia:

                                                                          I don't know how the rest of these fights will fall through, and I don't know what role Sanji may play in it. I don't feel I indicated as such in my original post, but speaking for myself, in no way have I ever felt Sanji is "inferior" to Usopp because of events that have not yet transpired. (I have a tendency to write long run-on sentences, sorry about that…)

                                                                          What I do feel is that in that moment, when he was facing off against Califa, he made a choice. A choice to not fight an opponent based solely on her gender, and a choice that carried potentially grave consequences. I call it a choice, because even though the morals/ethics/principles one carries may be the result of childhood "engraving", that doesn't absolve the responsibility of facing up to the consequences of any decision one makes (try making that argument in court...).

                                                                          Perhaps Sanji felt he couldn't do anything about it at that moment - but that's not to say it won't change in the future. If it does, fine. If it doesn't...fine. If nothing ever happens, I won't hate Sanji, but I'll still disagree with his actions at that moment.

                                                                          That's fine, so long as you see that that particular moment is the exact same as Usopp running away from Mr. 4 and Ms. MC and leaving Chopper to die.

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                                                                            Uh, no. Given the way Usopp reacted in similar situations before and after the Mr4/Ms MC fight (against Chuu and against Ener on Maxim), it's safe to assume he'd have ran away for a short moment before realising his error, turning back and fighting again. Sanji had all the time to realise he had to kick Calipha's ass or his precious friend Robin would suffer years of torture before dying a miserable death, and he still acted this way. Not really the same thing IMO.

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                                                                              Darkestsith6
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                                                                              I don't see what all the fuss is about. Sanji got a whole friggen volume almost.

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                                                                                Sanji also, for the first time, gained Nami's respect for sticking with his beliefs.

                                                                                For a guy who owned everyone in CP7, Sanji's hardly the weakling people make him out to be.

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                                                                                  I've said it before and the only reason i wanted to see Sanji v jyabura was cos it would be a perfect Martial artist v Martial artist fight. This was ages ago, when Luffy was still fighting Blueno.

                                                                                  That said, NO, even if Sanji doesnt get a good fight I would really hate for him to steal anybody else's. I dont want him as a human shield for Nami i want to see her fight and defeat Calipha herself, I dont want to see him take on berserk chopper cos it serves no point in him beating Chopper, i dont want to see him stealing Usopp's limelight, cos Usopp needs it a much as Chopper/Nami do.
                                                                                  Like Omae said, the guy will get something to do later on, but he does'nt have to do it at any one else's expense.Iits very unlikely that hes down for the count.

                                                                                  My post in the 407 thread.

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                                                                                  • Buccaneer
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                                                                                    In 90% of these posts, Sanji's either a dead roach or diamond butterfly in its cocoon. Those that think the former will be on his tip with all the others when Sanji does something cool (which is probably after the next few fights finish), and those that think he'll decapitate Lucci with a suprise Rankyaku aren't even fooling themselves.

                                                                                    Originally Posted by Battle Franky

                                                                                    Bad move, bub!

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                                                                                    • Paulie
                                                                                      Paulie @Malintex_Terek
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                                                                                      @Malintex_Terek:

                                                                                      My primary reasoning is that there are a decreasing number of targets available. People are assuming Sanji will get up after being beaten and take on Jyabura; I find this highly unlikely unless Chopper gets to treat his wounds and give him recovery time, which seems unlikely because all the fights are occuring simultaneously.

                                                                                      I don't want to see Sanji steal Usopp's fight, though I won't discount it as a possibility.

                                                                                      But even so, there's always Frankfried (and Spandam) as an opponent, and the recent possibility of Chopper. There's plenty of fights to go around; after all, there only needs to be one opponent.

                                                                                      @Malintex_Terek:

                                                                                      Also, my paraphrase was that Nami told Sanji to "sit tight", as opposed to "not fight anymore". That doesn't imply Sanji's finished, just that he's probably not going to do much in this battle unless Oda decides to have Sanji recieve a second wind. Remember, Oda is speaking through the characters, and by having Nami say that, it's an indication of "Sanji's not battling Califa anymore". It's a symbolic representation, much like how the handcuffs were a plot device to prolong the Zoro & Sogeking battle.

                                                                                      I know Sanji's not going to help Nami in her fight, and I would never suggest that. After all, it's her fight, and she told Sanji to leave Califa to her. So he won't be fighting her.

                                                                                      Still plenty of others to fight, though.

                                                                                      @Malintex_Terek:

                                                                                      See the above. Why are people selecting Jyabura, of all the CP9, as the prime target for Sanji? Because, "Kumadori, Fukurou, Califa, and Kaku are going to fall to the others, so that leaves Jyabura".

                                                                                      It's a possibility; Zoro and Sanji fighting together again, plus Jabura seemed the most likely candidate for his fight in the beginning. So I won't discount it. But even without Kaku, or Kumadori, or Fukuro, or Califa, there's still Frankfried (why do people always forget about him?) The elephant might be surprisingly strong, makign a good opponent for Sanji. Or, if Sanji does 'steal' Usopp's fight, an opponent for Sogeking.

                                                                                      @Malintex_Terek:

                                                                                      Up until now, I wasn't really sure what Sanji-fans wanted; a fight, or development? In terms of fights, Zoro and Sanji are actually quite boring; kicks and slashes. Nothing new, really. Sanji proved how much of a bad-arse he was against Califa while illustrating the true depth of his character; that's development.

                                                                                      Of course his fans want development, but the fact remains, this is a shounen manga. In the huge final confrontation in the arc, doesn't it make sense for the characters to get a fight?

                                                                                      It amazes me how quickly people discount the possibility of him fighting.

                                                                                      @Malintex_Terek:

                                                                                      THIS is why I find Sanji fans annoying. It's not that they want Sanji to grow as a character or get in a fight, they're just AFRAID of having their favourite character UPSTAGED for two major arcs. Well, it happens to EVERYONE, so please, please, please, GET OVER IT! It's not like Oda is going to just shelve Sanji like Toriyama did with all the other non-bruiser characters; he's an essential part of the team and has a dream to boot.

                                                                                      We know he won't get backshelved in the story. If he doesn't fight, Oda'll have something up his sleeve to keep that from happening.

                                                                                      But you know the easiest way to keep that from happening?

                                                                                      Give him a fight.

                                                                                      Why overlook the simplest solution?

                                                                                      @Malintex_Terek:

                                                                                      Point taken, Usopp had his skull fractured. If we were in Alabasta, I would have assumed Usopp would have gone down after that; if he DID go down, I would have guessed that he wouldn't get back up. Usopp fought on; however, that does NOT imply that the same will happen here. It doesn't refute or accept the future, actually, which is why I'm standing neutral on Oda's intention for Sanji. I just can't stand the whining.

                                                                                      See above. I'm looking at Sanji with white eyes, a bloody suit, bruses, broken teeth, a pained expression, slurred speech and a glassy touch; the Sanji-fans seem to overlook all that material. 😕

                                                                                      The point is simple; being beaten up doesn't mean you're out.

                                                                                      You're saying it is. Sure, you don't discount the possibility of him getting up, but you're saying it's "unlikely."

                                                                                      Nobody's overlooking anything. We see that, sure. But in a manga like One Piece, all it takes is a second wind and you're as good as new.

                                                                                      @Malintex_Terek:

                                                                                      Here's an example of confirmation bias. I gave you all the reasons as to why he's temporarily incapacitated, but you assert that there's "nothing to indicate that he's out of the fight".

                                                                                      Temporarily, as in he won't get a major fight in this confrontation? No, I won't say that. You're right in that he was temporarily incapacitated; he was beaten enough that he couldn't go on agaisnt Califa.

                                                                                      THAT'S the reason, storywise, he was beaten up.

                                                                                      But this is One Piece. Nami'll finish off Califa, Sanji's going to leave, he'll catch a second wind, find another opponent… see what I mean?

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                                                                                        Out of all the strawhats, Sanji and Usopp are my favorite.
                                                                                        However in this arc two things happend which changed my respect for both of them.
                                                                                        Usopp- Became Sogeking. Nuff said.

                                                                                        Sanji- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that he told califia that since he was fighting for another woman he wouldn't hold back. But he did. How he wouldn't fight her even though he was suposed to be fighting for a nakama. This brings the question to my mind, if he really cares for Robin, why doesn't he fight whoever? Now I've always enjoyed sanji's love sickness, but not fighting a woman to protect a nakama. This makes my respect drop.

                                                                                        I really feel that Oda screwed sanji over here. Everyone else seems to be having a power up here, and sanji's should have been to fight and beat a woman. Now his only two choices for the powerup are, if somehow he learns some Rokushiki in an amazingly short amount of time, or if he decides to go back and fight Califia…which is just as equally unlikely.

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                                                                                          How come no one is blaming Luffy for taking 2 CP9s and not leaving enough glory for his nakama?

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                                                                                            Its because Sanji doesn't see Robin or Nami as nakama; he sees them as women.

                                                                                            Look back to everything that has been written so far by Oda, and you'll doubtless see that Sanji has always placed a higher value on their femininity than their friendship.

                                                                                            This is not to say that Sanji wouldn't pull their fat out of the fire if a femme fatale were attacking them, just that he can't focus on Robin as his "friend" during a fight with another lovely lady when Robin is, in fact, not present.

                                                                                            Lots of folks were jonesing foe Chopper to go berserker in his fight with Kumadori, and he did. Personally, I wish something slightly different had happened. I wish Sanji had gone berserk. Then, he would have no morals, ethics, or personality disorders standing in his way when he kicked Calipha down, strangled her, and proceeded to rape her, thus disappointing all of his female fans. See, I've always figured that Sanji has something a little darker brewing under the surface. 'Love Cook' is harmless; but only because that's the only way Sanji can stop himself.

                                                                                            I'm like Hisotensoku: Not here to preserve peace, nor to destroy it. I certainly can't move mountains. Mostly, I'm just full of hot air.- Meh

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                                                                                            • Cap'n Carter
                                                                                              Cap'n Carter @lammyduck
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                                                                                              @lammyduck:

                                                                                              How come no one is blaming Luffy for taking 2 CP9s and not leaving enough glory for his nakama?

                                                                                              To be honest, the fact that Blueno got taken down so early always kind of bugged me. But, there wasn't really much of a choice since he went seeking out Luffy.

                                                                                              And there had to be a guinea pig for Gear, and Blueno was really the only suitable choice.

                                                                                              the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit

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                                                                                              • joekido the Second
                                                                                                joekido the Second @Sanji Of Straw
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                                                                                                @Sanji:

                                                                                                Out of all the strawhats, Sanji and Usopp are my favorite.
                                                                                                However in this arc two things happend which changed my respect for both of them.
                                                                                                Usopp- Became Sogeking. Nuff said.

                                                                                                Sanji- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that he told califia that since he was fighting for another woman he wouldn't hold back. But he did. How he wouldn't fight her even though he was suposed to be fighting for a nakama. This brings the question to my mind, if he really cares for Robin, why doesn't he fight whoever? Now I've always enjoyed sanji's love sickness, but not fighting a woman to protect a nakama. This makes my respect drop.

                                                                                                I really feel that Oda screwed sanji over here. Everyone else seems to be having a power up here, and sanji's should have been to fight and beat a woman. Now his only two choices for the powerup are, if somehow he learns some Rokushiki in an amazingly short amount of time, or if he decides to go back and fight Califia…which is just as equally unlikely.

                                                                                                Sanji already had his power-up on the train during his fight with Wanze, he uses knife remamber? So why is that's not enough?

                                                                                                Currently writing a book

                                                                                                https://www.facebook.com/redjoekido

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                                                                                                  WarcoW @joekido the Second
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                                                                                                  @joekido:

                                                                                                  Sanji already had his power-up on the train during his fight with Wanze, he uses knife remamber? So why is that's not enough?

                                                                                                  Cos power ups are something that are expected to be used again and again while facing an opponent vastly stronger than the character.
                                                                                                  And Sanji using knives was only a one time deal, cos he was fighting food and not someone vastly stronger than him….and unless every single one of Sanji's future opponents happen to be food items, he isnt gonna be using it again.

                                                                                                  It wasn't a power up. Sanji learning one of the CP9 forms would be one though.

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                                                                                                    Sandai Mera @WarcoW
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                                                                                                    Sandai Mera
                                                                                                    spiral

                                                                                                    And let's not forget he went medieval on Wanze to the point where he actually beat the ugly off him XD.

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                                                                                                    • Z
                                                                                                      zero chan @notme
                                                                                                      @notme last edited by
                                                                                                      Z
                                                                                                      spiral
                                                                                                      zero chan
                                                                                                      spiral

                                                                                                      @notme:

                                                                                                      See, this is why I liked using Zoro's sense of direction as a parallel for Sanji not being able to hit a woman. You are saying that Zoro will "always get there on time for his friends," but that doesn't have to be the case at all. If Zoro's lack of direction made him late by even 1 minute he could easily be putting his nakama's life on the line.

                                                                                                      I understand that Zoro's lack of direction can be a danger to his nakama. However, think about it, this problem is not sth that can be overcome easily. How do you help someone who has no direction sense to overcome his or her problem? I can understand zoro's problem since I am not very good with directions myself. It's like a handicap. So zoro's weakness is definitely a bad analogy for sanji's weakness for women.

                                                                                                      Back to the topic, I actually agree with most of the things put out by the person who started this thread.

                                                                                                      Off-topic:
                                                                                                      IMO the battle at Enies Lobby has one thing in common with the battle at skypiea. The fight is not evenly distributed. In Skypiea, Zoro fought and won two battles (Braham and Ohm) whereas Usopp hardly fought. Now at Enies Lobby, Luffy defeated Blueno rather early in the series and we know he is going to defeat Lucci later. In other words he gets to fight twice. Right now the situation is that we are left with 6 rokushi user CP9 fighters vs 7 fighters on the mugiwara team. Looks like someone is going to be left out (Unless you want to count Spandine in) and it looks like it's either Sanji or Nami. A Sanji & Nami vs Kalifa fight doesn't appeal to me. It looks unfair and Kalifa is not even the top fighter there.

                                                                                                      My youtube video, one-sided sanjixusopp. Listen closely to the lyrics

                                                                                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj_9G1vvx2k

                                                                                                      Paulie N 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                      • Paulie
                                                                                                        Paulie @zero chan
                                                                                                        @zero chan last edited by
                                                                                                        Paulie
                                                                                                        spiral
                                                                                                        Paulie
                                                                                                        spiral

                                                                                                        @zero:

                                                                                                        Right now the situation is that we are left with 6 rokushi user CP9 fighters vs 7 fighters on the mugiwara team.

                                                                                                        One word; Frankfried.

                                                                                                        COWMAKAZE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0

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