Califa was shocked and Koed by nami's weak lightning ball.
Nero tried Soru to run away from Lucci but couldn't even get past the point that Sanji and Frankie where despite his head start on lucci.
They aren't appearing so invincible by any means.
Throughout this month, we will be testing new features (like search) so you may experience some hiccups from time to time. We'll try to not be too disruptive...
Power of Lucci compared to the Shichibukai.
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**I'm willing to bet Lucchi is nothing compared to the likes of DonFlamingo and higher.
And Arlong was clearly Shuchbukai level. If they are near water than croc doesn't got a chance.**
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@Octogon:
And Arlong was clearly Shuchbukai level. If they are near water than croc doesn't got a chance.
Meh Arlong is way overrated the guy relied only on his inborn toughness and strength with no real fighting skills to speak of and is in my opinion far from being an equal to any of the Shichibukai weve seen so far.
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I think that when it comes to straight up brawling and close range combat, Lucci is far superior to any of the previous villains. (obviously).
But with Logia's he's different. I definitely think he would stand a chance against Crocodile since Luffy was able to win in the end. But we still don't know the powers of Doflamingo and the like, so speculation on that matter is pretty pointless and pretty much a matter of opinion.
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Meh Arlong is way overrated the guy relied only on his inborn toughness and strength with no real fighting skills to speak of and is in my opinion far from being an equal to any of the Shichibukai weve seen so far.
**What do you mean he only relied on his inborn toughfness? How is it that he has no real fighting skills? I agree he isn't crocs equal, but he can defeat him. Depending on the location.
Honestly I doubt that Lucchi can take on the really strong Marine HQ captians. T-Bone was enoughf to make Zoro worry. He could probaley gove zoro a very good fight, but was too concerned with the saftey of his comrades.** -
@Octogon:
What do you mean he only relied on his inborn toughfness? How is it that he has no real fighting skills? I agree he isn't crocs equal, but he can defeat him. Depending on the location.
just what i said in my opinion he isnt very impressive techniquewise and seems to be heavily reliant on his inborn stamina and strength.
now this is just me overanalysing stuff with in the manga no real basis but its fun so ill do it anyways
but as i see it he is much like Sanosuke was in the early parts of RK a guy who just happens to be exceptionaly strong and resillient and lives of his natural abilites and makes it just fine and as such doesnt really waste time learning to fight properly cause he doesnt need to. -
Like Buccaneer has said before, Arlong just didn't come off as much of a fighter, despite how physically powerful he was.
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power/skill/strength equation for One Piece: strong will + luck = strength
If Luffy didn't have the ridiculous amount of perseverence and fortune he has, then he couldn't even hurt Crocodile, and, in fact, couldn't be a pirate. The turnout of any fight in One Piece can be determined by will power and luck, and everything just follows suit one way or the other. Besides that, Oda is God in his manga, and his insanity may be the reason for his logic. -
There are a lot of comparisions, but really, we don't know. Crocodile would beat him, but that's just speaking about Croc. Mihawk hasn't shown much strength, and the others haven't moved more than a muscle.
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just what i said in my opinion he isnt very impressive techniquewise and seems to be heavily reliant on his inborn stamina and strength.
now this is just me overanalysing stuff with in the manga no real basis but its fun so ill do it anyways
but as i see it he is much like Sanosuke was in the early parts of RK a guy who just happens to be exceptionaly strong and resillient and lives of his natural abilites and makes it just fine and as such doesnt really waste time learning to fight properly cause he doesnt need to.**I think I mistunderstood. I thought you meant that he didn't work to obtain his strengh. but now I think you meant he hasn't shown immpressive skills. I kinda agree with you there. But I also think that given the correct curcumstances he can defeat croc. but on a place with no big body of water he is screwed against croc.
And it's true the likes of Mihawk and shanks havn't moved a muscle. But I'm sure they can defeat someone like Croc or enel, easily. Dispite the fact that they are logias. It seemes to me that there is a way to damage logias regardless of their abilities. Perhaps by damaging induvidual molecules?
and I don't believe croc is a good show of the schichbukai level at all. Strong as he may be, I get the impression he was on the weaker side of the schichbukai foo d chain.**
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I don't know if i can post this in this section but, Guys, if u really wanna know which one stronger, why don't u just play One Piece Grand battle.. Hopefully when they include W7 arc they'll add Lucci to their roster.. If im not mistaken, they have this Power Level of chara.. ranged from D/E to S. and the last time i played this game, the only two people got rank S is Shanks and Aokiji.. above the likes of eneru, smoker, and croc.. Maybe it'd sort out the argument to Lucci power level if he included in the roster..
And i don't really understand about Lucci could easily defeat croc.. i mean is there any such thing like one hit kill between 2 guy with ( i assume ) almost same power lvl. i mean croc isnt a normal goon. he's former sinchibukai afterall. lucci probably able to beat croc depend on the circumstances.. but, i dont know.. heck, even foxy could beat lucci if he shots his noro noro beam like crazy.. i mean what determines the winner of a battle in OP world is actually luck and the power of surprise.. the tides of a battle can change in a split second.. so i guess lucci is strong enough to beat croc/ener and viceversa.. its just that i cant imagine he would "one shot kill" croc.. and for the bounty, if lucci is a pirate, probably about 150-170 mil or somethin..
i hope oda-sensei would be kind enough to make some sort of pirates/chara carnival for all chara in OP world, so they can sort things out and have a dream match.. but i guess it wont be happening..
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correct me if i'm wrong but we have only seen 4 shichibaki and only 3 of them are active and we know about atleast one other. crocodile, mihawk, bartholomu (big dude who had the bible) and that other guy who could control people like puppets (forgot his name). plus we know that arlong's former captain was allowed to become a shi only if he left some of his crew behind and that was arlong and the rest in east blue so there is a merman in the shichibaki that is probobly mad strong and arlong for all we know wasn't even his vice captain but could have been like a cabin boy compared to his captain.
it isn't really accurate to base one guys power on a group we only know a little about.if lucci was all that wouldn't he be an admiral or vice admiral like one of the ten guys who goes on the buster call or something like that?
i believe that in oda's world there are checks and balances, the marines need some way to keep the shichibukai in line and that is either those 5 old guys or the 3 admirals aokiji (ice dude). so i roughly think that the 3 admirals and the old guys are able to take all 7 of the pirates just incase they decide to make a coue, because if there was a chance for the pirates to take power i believe they would have by now.
i think lucci is powerful, but not the level of power of them. given the right situation i think could beat a shichibukai but i also think he could get stomped in a second buy one of them
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@donkeydonkz:
I don't know if i can post this in this section but, Guys, if u really wanna know which one stronger, why don't u just play One Piece Grand battle.. Hopefully when they include W7 arc they'll add Lucci to their roster.. If im not mistaken, they have this Power Level of chara.. ranged from D/E to S. and the last time i played this game, the only two people got rank S is Shanks and Aokiji.. above the likes of eneru, smoker, and croc.. Maybe it'd sort out the argument to Lucci power level if he included in the roster..
And i don't really understand about Lucci could easily defeat croc.. i mean is there any such thing like one hit kill between 2 guy with ( i assume ) almost same power lvl. i mean croc isnt a normal goon. he's former sinchibukai afterall. lucci probably able to beat croc depend on the circumstances.. but, i dont know.. heck, even foxy could beat lucci if he shots his noro noro beam like crazy.. i mean what determines the winner of a battle in OP world is actually luck and the power of surprise.. the tides of a battle can change in a split second.. so i guess lucci is strong enough to beat croc/ener and viceversa.. its just that i cant imagine he would "one shot kill" croc.. and for the bounty, if lucci is a pirate, probably about 150-170 mil or somethin..
The characters are scaled down in that game for the sake of gameplay. That's probably the last place you'd want to check in terms of battle prowess.
For example, Zoro can beat Ener in GB Rush, but he got stomped in the actual series. In the game, if Zoro slashes Ener, it hurts him, but in the actual canon Ener would be completely unharmed.
and, iirc, those stats are ingame stats.
the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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Well that's an easy topic Lucci is stronger than Croco but most likely weaker than any other Shichibukai the SH will encounter and I mean only those they'll encounter since there might be sidestories where Shichibukai get defeated by characters other than the SH. I'm basing this on common shounen law that the evil over lords only get stronger as the story progresses and not weaker. So it goes like this Kuro<krieg<arlong<croco<enel<lucci the="" only="" exception="" so="" far="" may="" be="" buggy="" who="" is="" defeated="" character="" which="" continues="" to="" have="" an="" effect="" on="" story="" might="" indicate="" that="" he="" progresses="" in="" turn.="" <br="">Yes, I know there are many who argue that Lucci couldn't defeat Croco or Enel because of their Logia fruit or only if he knew their weaknesses, but for one it isn't as if you needed to be a genius to figure those out and it's no biggy to exploit them - water isn't all that hard to come by and rubber isn't the only isolator there is. Another fact most people seem to neglect are Lucci's superior physical abilities. Sure Croco could dry him up and Enel could electrocute him, that is if they could catch him. Lucci is on a whole different level than Luffy was when they met him and he was already faster than both of them. Also One Piece being One Piece means no one gives a damn about any laws of nature so being able to evade lightning is quite propable.
Of course you can imagine situations where Lucci would lose but being able to prepare for an opponent is part of one's strength and who cares whether Lucci would lose to Enel naked in a giant steel cage or whether Croco would lose to Arlong underwater, it doesn't change who is stronger.</krieg<arlong<croco<enel<lucci> -
Question here: Is Lucci smarter than Eneru and Crocodile? He actually bothered to look up info about the Strawhats before fighting. Maybe it's just because Enel and Croc just looks down on everyone, makes assumptions, and judges books by their cover.
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Question here: Is Lucci smarter than Eneru and Crocodile? He actually bothered to look up info about the Strawhats before fighting. Maybe it's just because Enel and Croc just looks down on everyone, makes assumptions, and judges books by their cover.
I wouldn't say necessarily smarter but unlike those two he doesn't tend to underestimate opponents so easily. And both of them in the end fell victim to their own hubris, especially Croco who had the opportunity to kill Luffy twice and did not. Lucci simply doesn't share this weakness.
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Question here: Is Lucci smarter than Eneru and Crocodile? He actually bothered to look up info about the Strawhats before fighting. Maybe it's just because Enel and Croc just looks down on everyone, makes assumptions, and judges books by their cover.
Or maybe it's because he's part of a secret governmental assassination agency and that's his job to look up info about guys he's supposed to kill.
Besides, even if Croc knew more about Luffy, what would it have changed? I don't think he'd have been more suspicious if he knew Luffy kicked Arlong, Krieg and Wapol's ass.
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If my memory serves me right, he had to research the mugiwara anyways since it was up to his team to frame them for the assassination of Iceburg. Being part of the CP network gives him all the intell he would possibly need. I do think that most of the CP9 has at least a fair amount of smarts as to not get screwed over like some of the other villians of past.
It would be an odd sight to see Lucchi vs Buggy given that his power makes it so stabbing or cutting would be useless. Unless Lucchi comes prepared with seastone weapons which would then restrain him from being able to use his devil power. That being the true power of the CP9. All of them and their rokushiki, DF powers are just an added bonus in most cases.
It's hard to see a Lucchi vs Crocodile fight with Lucchi as victor. Though Lucchi vs Arlong would be over quicker than he could say "Shigan". I think even Califa could take on Arlong. That being that the CP9 are the best physical fighters yet to face off against the mugiwara.
I don't see Robin beating them easily at all considering tekkai would stop her clutch and what not.
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DF Powers >>>> Rob
he could probably take Croc since Croc has an easily exploitable weakness
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arlong for all we know wasn't even his vice captain but could have been like a cabin boy compared to his captain.
I'd be rolling on the floor for hoursā¦ and hours... and hours... if we see Arlong being the weak one in his crew, getting picked on, with a pocket protector and braces... thick glasses too... washing the decks, hahaha.... that's funny to me.
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DF Powers >>>> Rob
he could probably take Croc since Croc has an easily exploitable weakness
Croc's weakness isn't as exploitable. He's smart. That is why he made his moves in th desert. He lost to Luffy because of Luffy's will and luck. Unless Rob takes the same route as Luffy, getting so messed up to have blood dripping everywhere off his body, I see Croc taking the win. I also believe that Croc will be a little more thourough in his killings like Kumadori taking on Chopper.
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yes but Rob works for the organization that pays Croc so they should someone have his weakness noted
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A little off topic here, but what is Crocodile's powers exactly? He controls sand, because he is sand, but why is it whenever he uses a "dry" spell, even stone crumbles? Maybe his drying technique involves weakening molecular bonds, thus causing water to evapoate quickly, and solids to erode easily.
A bit more on topic here, I wonder if Oda would pull off a stunt where a tekkai with over 2000 douriki strength is immune to natural lightning, fire, cold, etc.
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Knowing his weakness and sucessfully exploting it are two differant things.
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get liquid on hands, punch Croc
thats difficult?
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Yeah, because that worked out so well for Luffy in round 2ā¦.
Without actually having an indispolable supply of water, that doesn't seem logical. He can still dry up the water, or avoid by disolving his body until he has a good strike.
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get liquid on hands, punch Croc
thats difficult?
I think that's actually very difficult, since Crocodile dries the air, water will disappear almost instantly, even if it's on a surface.
However, that problem's easily solved with a little ingenuity. And by a little, I mean little.
Here's how: Dress up as old lady. Carry a tank of water. Ask in a meek grandma voice: "Sonny, would you help a little old lady carry this enoumous tank of water?" Crocodile will stare at you for a few seconds. If you don't flinch, he won't suspect a thing, and proceed to hold the water, since he has to hold up his reputation. Just proceed to [jushigan] through the tank and he's a goner. -
The problem with this is, neither Croc and Lucci are idiot in a fight. Croc is aware of his water weakness.
But there's a serious problem with is comparsionāthe Logia power. We're all assuming Lucci would have water with him, like the Batman "being prepared" arguement. We all know that if there is no water, Croc will always win right?
On the other hand, if Lucci has that water, he'll probably win because he's faster and maybe stronger then Luffy was at the time. It all depends on the circumstance--one circumstance almost guarantees victory for the other.
Hell, how do we know that Croc didn't know about the CP9--at least from rumors. He seemed to be informed, and was aware that without Pluton he'd have no chance of fighting the World Government. Maybe he had an idea on dealing with them.
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above: true
and i hate the 'later = pwnzorz earlier' argument.
for heaven's sake, just because rock killed scissors, and is having a hard time with paper, it doesn't mean paper will PWN scissors.
There are too many circumstances at consideration here,
- logia users and their dispersals preventing bodily harm
- the possibilities of having exploits removing 1)
- the circumstancial offerings(water, sand, whatever)
- what they're using
aaand i have to say something..
it's unfair to compare luffy with eneru, saying luffy won so he's stronger than eneru.. dun forget nearly all of eneru's power was from his electrical powers, and he held his own quite decently even without using them, when fighting against luffy. I'm not saying this automatically makes him 'Godmode = 1', but dudes u gotta give THAT recognition. I don't think whitebeard, however strong he is, could hit the guy with ease without getting a new hairstyle..and besides, my analysis, luffy remains unharmed by electricity because electricity routes around him, taking air which apparently has less resistance than his body. and air has horribly high resistance, which is why lightning strikes heat up the air so much, and take so much voltage and even lots of water present in the air to act as partial conduits before it can actually go from clouds to land. Rubber has high resistance too, BUT we're talking about thin lil' rubber suits here. Take a cross sectional view, tell me when u look at the body in general, 2-3mm of rubber, then 200mm of flesh(mostly water), and 2-3mm of rubber again. that's like 6mm of rubber with 200mm of flesh, compared to 206mm of air, the resistance provided OVERALL by the flesh/thin rubber combi will not be enough to make the electricity choose the air. Not to mention he won't be able to cover up his body totally with rubber, he won't be able to see a thing. Just a tiny eyehole/breathehole and the rubber suit is practically rendered useless, the resistance difference would be godly, like a poison containment unit with a tiny pin-prick, that's all it takes to leak poison out and render the containment unit useless.
It takes just a tiny voltage to kill a living being, cuz no matter how strong ur muscles are they're still controlled by electrical signals, a shock would cause them to contract until the flow is stopped(and your body would have trouble kicking back in control with the messed up flow in ur nerves, fried brains and all). And u just need to stop the heart while immobilising the body for a few seconds before the guy is dead. If eneru did a constant 100 mil pounding at the guy's rubber suit, i dare to say more than enough volts will be carried through to the guy to kill him. this is ignoring the eyehole, breathing hole, whatever hole (ass?) thingy
The only way any rubber suit will work against millions of volts is if the guy is wearing it TOTALLY covering his body and has it about 5 inches thick all around. I can't see anyone doing soru/kamie in that.. and neither can he lol. This rubber advantage is something only luffy has and will have(as shown by oda, when he made nami say 'one and only natural enemy') so just drop it.
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Base Luffy Enies Lobby > Base Luffy Alabasta (by a big margin, I would say)
Base Luffy roughly around as strong as Blueno is. He used Gear 2, but I don't think he HAD to use it to win.
Lucci is more than FOUR times as powerful as Blueno. And his power can only be increased in his Zoan form, that makes all his strengths and speeds increase.
I really don't see how Crocodile > Lucci when Luffy beat Crocodile in the end. Not luck, like Crocodile killed over and died from a disease. But persistance, and finally kicking his ass. And Luffy is now much stronger, and will undoubtfully barely beat Lucci. With Gears and all.
You can counter ANY battle with what ifs to your advantage. "Oh Crocodile can do this and this." But you never think of what the opponent much stronger than Luffy is, could do to counter. And I believe once you all see Lucci vs. Luffy and it concludes, you won't be thinking Lucci is a weaker villian than Crocodile.
This is not dragonball.. Defense, Agility, Dexterity, Strength, Projectile attacks, Close range attacks for dragonball ALL follow roughly the same ratio. So when Krillin's strength > Roshi's strength, we can safely assume he can dodge attacks better, fly faster, do stronger projectiles than roshi.
THIS is NOT THE CASE for OP. You could have, let's imagine, a little 5 year old girl with the rubber fruit vs let's say a military captain trained to use his lightning logia fruit(and not know alchemy, let's just imagine). The military captain could be a trained killer, fought world wars against countries just by himself, just one person. The 5 year old girl could be kicked around by EVERYONE else, bullied, whatever, and can't even lift a bloody 3kg dumbbell.
YET the lightning logia user here wouldn't be able to harm her totally with his lightning skills..you get my point?! It's pointless to compare eneru, crocodile, lucci, there're too many circumstances at stake. All we can assume is that the shichibukai are not to be reckoned with, neither are the cp9. Neither are logias, and the marine high-powers, blah blah..
Summary: You can be king for all i care, all i need is an ace, the one tiny card smaller than EVERY other card, to beat u.(dont be dumb and dispute this line. you get what i mean and that is all i care about. i'm predicting people getting itchy fingers, ready to dispute this to continue their one-sidedness. I'm telling u, whoever u are, it'll just make your argument seem desperate. Boo in advance.)
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Rock Paper Scissor, I've been arguing this for months, but I never thought to use this simple analogy lol went right over my head that I could say all those words with so few, thanks Hyper.
I'd like to complicate this conversation a little
In one of the data books, it is said Mihawk can cut the elements, now It is assumed his sword may be Kairoseki, but the statement cut the elements sounds more like a technique to me than an effect of the sword.So if it is assumed that eventually down the line there are guys experienced and learned enough to actually combat against Logia users (I don't see why this is an impossibility) it is possible for anyone that studies a certain art long enough to do so as well.
Now CP9 have gone through what seems like the most hardouous training in OP thus far, they have mastered 6 forms of martial arts, where as most pirates/SH have mastered (or are working on mastering) one or two, albeit more effective one or two, but one or two nonetheless.
So I think because of the extra training, the question becomes, how far has CP9's studies allowed them to reach in terms of power? Can Rankyaku cut an element? Let's look at it this way, it isn't a physical attack, it seems more like a beam attack/forcing the elements/energy around you to move in a wave motion, thus it is possible that it could affect the elements.
Soru also seems to increase speed exponentially.. to be quite honest, other than Eneru whos element is speed incarnate, I don't see why Soru couldn't dodge any other Logia?So all in all I just though aside from the two moves that would allow (I think very plausibly, not highly flawed) CP9 to attack and defend against Logias it comes down to whether they have trained to cut/punch etc the ki of things like Zoro has done (and I assume will eventually awaken the ability to cut elements like Mihawk).
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Uhm.Bellow 300 mil. is all I can say,though maybe not too much past 100 mil. (cause,really,against Croc (b.81) he coudlnt do anything,what would he do, do a Shigan into Sand ?Though he would LOOK capable of trashing Moria,at least Morias Dopelman doesn seem to be as fast as Soru,but maybe hed compensate with another,as of yet unseen ability of his Akuma no Mi)
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On Croc vs. Rob, Since Lucci fights the same way that Luffy does, I think that if Luffy could do it, Lucci could do it.
I also believe that Lucci could trash Moria.
I don't think any CP9 member, even if they ganged up on him, could beat Hawkeye though. Also, on a slightly off topic note, I don't think any other character shown so far could beat Eneru, except for maybe Hawkeye, if he really can "cut the elements"
On another slightly off topic note, ANY villian B4 Crocodile could be beaten by croc or after. Just image if Kuro tried to fight Lucci. Kuro would do the out of the bag attack (That's what I read in the VIZ translation, don't flame me if it's something else) and then Lucci would be right in front of him every time he moved.
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I want to see Foxy beating Don Kreig. or everyone GL villain battle Buggy.
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@Kitsune::
I don't think any CP9 member, even if they ganged up on him, could beat Hawkeye though. Also, on a slightly off topic note, I don't think any other character shown so far could beat Eneru, except for maybe Hawkeye, if he really can "cut the elements"
I'm sure Blackbeard would pwn Enel.
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Though I may be a damned fool for bringing logic into an argument such as thisā¦
If the World Gov't. is using privateers (Shichibukai) as a means of keeping down the number of rampaging rogues and their rapine, why settle at seven strong ones? Ideally, they should keep about three Elites, whom they would practically fawn over, and four more who could take out the elite three if two or more of them joined forces. The four would then be locked in a competition with the Elite 3 for their WG entitlement package (lower tributary demands, better support). Then below these four, keep tabs on about seventy lesser crews that have the potential to join the lower tier. This way, they wouldn't have to worry about whether or not their top assassination squad leader could take down any or all of the Shichibukai at a moments notice.
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I'm sure Blackbeard would pwn Enel.
< Oh sorry, I forgot about him. That is true, thank you for pointing that out.
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mmh I wonder how Croc could touch or grab lucci, even though lucci has the sixest style's skills
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Crocodile and Lucci were the two hardest opponents Luffy faced up to this point in the series (as in, the hadest for Luffy, Enel was the strongest).
If they fought blow for blow and did not use their environment at all, and Crocodile didn't get arrogant and get Lucci all bloodied up and instead just dried the guy out followed up with poison hook. Crocodile would win. If Crocodile got even one of Lucci's fists bloody enough to where Lucci could get even one hit off on Crocodile, Crocodile would lose. I guarantee you that Lucci's super powerful finishing move he used on Luffy is more powerful then anything Luffy dished out in his fight against Crocodile. One of those would KO croc if it connected.
Realistically we can't say who'd win as we have no idea as to whether or not Lucci ever fought a Logia, we do know that the Marines were extremely fearful and confident in Lucci's ability to subdue a 100 million beri pirate. So we can assume that Lucci is stronger than your average 100 million beri pirate by a large margin.
We can also assume that the Government really gauged Luffy's threat level by the fact that he defeated Lucci, and that that is the real reason his new bounty is so high (not the sack of ennie's lobby, since it was clear that Lucci could have singlehandedly done the same thing, even if the other cp9 and the Buster Call opposed him). So in my opinion Lucci would have a bounty of around 200 million Beri, which is not far away from the bounty that Croc would have had (160 million).
Theorizing about whether or not Lucci would be able to find ways to fight Logia users is a waste of time, we have no idea unless we see it happen.
We have little to no knowledge of the cp9 beyond a glimpse into the power of Do Flamingo and the bounty of him and Kuma. Other than that we have literally nothing, Kuma's bounty might reflect his current power, but like Crocodile, he's like a lot stronger than a 300 million pirate, and his bounty likely was frozen before he would have reached his peak.
Then again, we have no idea. I personally think that Kuma has something up his sleeve because Don Flamingo sure wasn't daring to play any tricks on him. Is Don Flamingo really all that strong? We don't know, we saw him manipulating some official who probably had the 'strength' factor of say, Spandam. We don't know anything about him we just have a teaser, so we can only compare Crocodile and Lucci, and that implies that Lucci competes with at least some of the Shichibukai in terms of power.
I really believe that inside the shichibukai there are huge power level differences, and that how strong one shichibukai is in comparison to another is not considered. They don't need to be equals, they need to serve their purpose. Mihawk is probably a lot stronger than Crocodile or Lucci, for instance, but that doesn't mean Crocodile wasn't fulfilling his purpose in the organization.
Also, just because Lucci is not in a team as high level as the Shichibukai means absolutely nothing. Blackbeard isn't one of the Yonkou, but you can bet he's stronger than most if not all of the Shichibukai.
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Crocodile and Lucci were the two hardest opponents Luffy faced up to this point in the series (as in, the hadest for Luffy, Enel was the strongest).
If they fought blow for blow and did not use their environment at all, and Crocodile didn't get arrogant and get Lucci all bloodied up and instead just dried the guy out followed up with poison hook. Crocodile would win. If Crocodile got even one of Lucci's fists bloody enough to where Lucci could get even one hit off on Crocodile, Crocodile would lose. I guarantee you that Lucci's super powerful finishing move he used on Luffy is more powerful then anything Luffy dished out in his fight against Crocodile. One of those would KO croc if it connected.
Realistically we can't say who'd win as we have no idea as to whether or not Lucci ever fought a Logia, we do know that the Marines were extremely fearful and confident in Lucci's ability to subdue a 100 million beri pirate. So we can assume that Lucci is stronger than your average 100 million beri pirate by a large margin.
We can also assume that the Government really gauged Luffy's threat level by the fact that he defeated Lucci, and that that is the real reason his new bounty is so high (not the sack of ennie's lobby, since it was clear that Lucci could have singlehandedly done the same thing, even if the other cp9 and the Buster Call opposed him). So in my opinion Lucci would have a bounty of around 200 million Beri, which is not far away from the bounty that Croc would have had (160 million).
Theorizing about whether or not Lucci would be able to find ways to fight Logia users is a waste of time, we have no idea unless we see it happen.
We have little to no knowledge of the cp9 beyond a glimpse into the power of Do Flamingo and the bounty of him and Kuma. Other than that we have literally nothing, Kuma's bounty might reflect his current power, but like Crocodile, he's like a lot stronger than a 300 million pirate, and his bounty likely was frozen before he would have reached his peak.
Then again, we have no idea. I personally think that Kuma has something up his sleeve because Don Flamingo sure wasn't daring to play any tricks on him. Is Don Flamingo really all that strong? We don't know, we saw him manipulating some official who probably had the 'strength' factor of say, Spandam. We don't know anything about him we just have a teaser, so we can only compare Crocodile and Lucci, and that implies that Lucci competes with at least some of the Shichibukai in terms of power.
I really believe that inside the shichibukai there are huge power level differences, and that how strong one shichibukai is in comparison to another is not considered. They don't need to be equals, they need to serve their purpose. Mihawk is probably a lot stronger than Crocodile or Lucci, for instance, but that doesn't mean Crocodile wasn't fulfilling his purpose in the organization.
Also, just because Lucci is not in a team as high level as the Shichibukai means absolutely nothing. Blackbeard isn't one of the Yonkou, but you can bet he's stronger than most if not all of the Shichibukai.
I have but 2 things to say to that.
1. Lucci would highly likely figure out Croc's weakness, as he quickly and easily anylized Luffy's Gear 2 and would have no trouble figuring out something Luffy figured out.
2. I doubt that Croc would be able to even TOUCH Lucci, as Lucci is incredibly fast via Soru.
Other than that, damn fine post.
actually,
3. I think if Lucci had a bouty it would be higher than 200 simply because of his past exploits, they know more about his power than they do Luffy's. They underestimate Luffy, but Lucci would probably be around 300 mil. maybe a little more or less. I mean, come on, they figured that he could survive the annihlation of a ship, that's pretty BA. -
total agree with you however i add it : Via Tekkai, lucci can't get hurt by croc's attacks
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So it's still discussed?..
It's a fact Lucci can barely beat Croc.
Nuff said.
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@/<4P$:
total agree with you however i add it : Via Tekkai, lucci can't get hurt by croc's attacks
:blink: what? how does a steel body protect against someone that can turn anything into dust jsut by touching it.
hell imo its even doubtful it would protect against that elelmental cutting thechnique Croc had (forgot its nameā¦ think it was something like desert spade or something like that). -
@Rai:
So it's still discussed?..
It's a fact Lucci can barely beat Croc.
Nuff said.
Man, you kinda suck as debates and discussionsā¦
I don't really have any idea who's stronger, some how I want to say Lucci, to cause of his attack power and speed. But Crocodile has a possibility to win a fight due to the logia aspect.
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Lucci would so totally load an M16 up with ice bullets that would totally melt in the desert sun in midflight. The now water bullets should shred Croc's sand defenses into a pulp. This would so force Crocodile to, like, totally buckle in his chakra and summon the demon inside of him.
Lucci would believe in himself like so immensely and that belief will make itself into a Discworld-esque god. The Oh God Of Kicking Crocodile's Flaccid Butthole.
But then Lucci's dynamic personality would totally make Croc believe in himself too and it would fill his heart with a golden light. They become quick friends.
Then Luffy drops by.
"lol, no u don't u idort."
Luffy slams a use dump truck filled with explosives against the united couple. Jamie and Adam set off the explosives and film the event for The Discovery Channel.
Lucci and Crocodile are now dead, but it was Lucci who won the day with the power of love. Luffy is suffocated by Smoker and the Oh God Of Kicking Crocodile's Flaccid Butthole ceases to exist as his own follower happens to die.
Myth Confirmed
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Well since Lucci and Croc are the only basis we have for comparison, Id have to say Lucci could definitely pose a threat against some Shichibukai but there is a limit to how far his smarts can take him. I doubt he would be able to even challenge Mihawk.
I really believe that inside the shichibukai there are huge power level differences, and that how strong one shichibukai is in comparison to another is not considered. They don't need to be equals, they need to serve their purpose. Mihawk is probably a lot stronger than Crocodile or Lucci, for instance, but that doesn't mean Crocodile wasn't fulfilling his purpose in the organization.
The same can be said for every group in OP. The Strawhats have huge power level differences but each member plays their own role. Shichibukai are considered a world power because of how much of a threat they are to WG and what make them dangerous isnt just their physical prowess, but their cunning. Croc had the ability to cause all that chaos which is just as bad as killing a crapload of WG soldiers.
Myth Confirmed
lol
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Here's my list
Crocodile - Win for Lucci (Wet his fist, and Shigan Crocodile)
Mihawk - Loss for Lucci (Even if he is quick, he'd be cut in two before he could reach Mihawk)
Doflamingo - Loss for Lucci (He could just control Lucci, and he probably has relatively strong physical skills and a good crew, so all of CP9 would be outmatched)
Kuma - Not enough Information
Gecko Moria - Win for Lucci (If Perona was with Moria, he might lose, but Lucci could kill Moria before he gets his hands on him)
Jimbei - Loss for Lucci (Jimbei has the strength of a whale shark, I bet Lucci's punches would barely hurt him, and then Jimbei could just crush him) -
I found it funny that each time people talk about crocodile they always look at the defensive aspect of his power more than his offensive aspect and at the same time look at the offensive aspect of his opponent and not his lack of defense .
While people expect lucci to know anything about croc because he works for the WG ,they seem to think that crocodile wouldn't know about lucci ( hello lucci is the strongest cp9 in cp9 history , cp9 are unknown to the public not to the WG and their agents and the warlords , even if they don't really obey are still working for the WG , that's why they are considered as "traitors" to most of the pirates ) .
When lucci use shigan , he always stay still in front of his opponent , watching them slowly dying , that alone means death in front of croc because croc just need to touch him once and more important a wet shigan wouldn't stop crocs power since the rest of his body would still be sand .
Having a weak point doesn't change the fact that a logia is still a logia .
Saying that one shigan and it's over is ridiculous considering what it took to knock him down : being punched through several layer of solid rock from underground than sent flying several meters in the sky , then fallim on his head .
That didn't killed him , that knock him out .I don't underestimate lucci because from all the opponent of luffy , he is the strongest physically since arlong , but i think that lot of people forget the scariest aspect of the logias which is not their intangibility but their elemental control .
If lucci were to fight crocodile , crocodile won't play like he did with luffy , luffy was a noob and an unknown pirate , lucci is THE cp9 , each of them would go all out from the beginning and crocodile just like lucci possess sure kill attacks .
One last thing i want to point out : if lucci were to fight gaspard ,that logia from movie 4 , he would get killed no matter how long the fight would last because gaspard weak point is not something lucci can use in direct fight without preparation and knowledge while crocodile would litterally rape gaspard because his power is the very weak point of gaspard .
Yes it's rock , paper , scissor thing .
When a character is stronger than another , it's overall stronger not stronger because of one aspect of his strength .
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While people expect lucci to know anything about croc because he works for the WG ,they seem to think that crocodile wouldn't know about lucci ( hello lucci is the strongest cp9 in cp9 history , cp9 are unknown to the public not to the WG and their agents and the warlords , even if they don't really obey are still working for the WG , that's why they are considered as "traitors" to most of the pirates ) .
No the shichibukai dont work for the WG. they pay the WG to remain pirates.
Assumeing that even normal marines have acces to CP9 or any CP groups personal file is just silly.
so is beliveing that WG figured out Crocodiles weakness. He mangaed to conceal his identity for the whole of his organization for 2 years. why shouldnt he be able to keep his weakness safeguarded from the marines?
Lucci could probably figure it out in midcombat but then he would have to go get some water after he figured it out.Personally i really wish this vs crap would end soon.
