Fate/stay night Discussion

Malintex_Terek

Unless ye have been living under a rock (or, perhaps, a turtle shell), the latest buzz on the internet has been the simply fantastic Fate/stay night Anime by Studio Deen. Episodes started airing in January, and as of 04 March 2006, nine episodes have been shown of a possible twenty four. I started this discussion because even though fate/stay night was licensed by Geneon before it even aired (Geneon also sponsored it), the Anime has three different paths to follow (more on this later), so no one knows exactly what's going to happen! It's a work in process, and that makes discussing it ever so much jucier.

Fate/stay night originally started out as an "H" game from the gaming studio TYPE-MOON, of which some of you may recognize as the doujin group that did "Tsukihime". Though Fate/stay night is set in the same universe as Tsukihime, it's definately not a doujin!

The original "H" game has three different branching scenarios; Fate, Unlimited Blade Works, and Heaven's Feel. The initial scenario, however, remains the same; here is the synopsis.

! Fate/stay night takes place in Fuyuki City, a site deemed by mages to be the battleground for a "Holy Grail" war that occurs roughly every ten years. In the most recent war, a massive fire broke out, killing hundreds of individuals. Only a young boy, the protagonist, survived the blaze; he had been rescued by an enigmatic man named Emiya Kiritsugu, whom adopted the boy as his son, "Shirou". Shirou would learn that his father was a well-meaning sorcerer, whom sought to help and protect people from the harsh living of the world; though Shirou had no real talent for sorcery, he admired and wanted to fufill his foster father's dream.
! Now, ten years later, Kiritsugu passed away from a mysterious disease, leaving Shirou in sole possession of his father's estate. He lives with his eccentric instructor/pesudo-guardian Fujimura Taiga Sensei (TIGER!!), and he is visisted everyday by Matou Sakura, the younger sister of one of his friends whom has a not-so-hidden crush on him (note: the whole introduction scene made me laugh out loud, because Shirou is voiced by the same actor who does Sasuke on Naruto and his first speaking lines are "Sakura?"). Since his father's death, Shirou has made a name for himself as a hard-working, good natured repairman; he enjoys cooking and cleaning, and has trained the one sorcery he can perform (tracing) which allows him to fix and strengthen many machines or objects. He frequently uses this ability to help his friend and the student body president, Ryudo Issei, get out of tight spots.
! One day, Shirou hears from his friend Mitsuzuri Ayako, head of his school's Archery Club (Shirou was a former member), that his friend, Matou Shinji (Sakura's brother) has been bullying the rookie archers. Apparently, Shinji was rejected by the school's top girl, Tohsaka Rin, and Shinji was looking for a way to vent some steam. Shirou has a talk with Shinji, though the discussion leads off into Shirou offering his services in case Shinji needs help with repairing arrows or bows.
! Later that day, Shinji takes up Shirou's offer, and has him set to work cleaning the Archery Dojo. Shirou spends several hours at work; it's nighttime when he leaves. Unfortunetly, on his way back, he witnesses a climatic battle between two powerful warriors; they're spiritual servants summoned in the most recent Holy Grail war. One of the servants, Lancer, notices Shirou and gives chase; outside humans are not supposed to know of the internal battles of mages! Shirou runs far into his high school, but Lancer catches up and stabs through Shirou's heart, killing him.
! Tohsaka Rin, whom is actually the daughter of a powerful mage and the master of Lancer's opponent Archer, find's Shirou's dead body. For an unknown reason (at the time), she uses the magic pendant that she used as a catalyst for summoning Archer to heal Shirou's damaged organs. Now a worthless gem, Rin drops the pendant.
! Shirou awakens some time later, dazed and confused; as he walks home, he realizes he was killed and that Lancer might detect that he is alive again. Sure enough, Lancer appears at Shirou's home and gives battle; Shirou manages to use his tracing ability to strengthen a rolled up paper poster, but he's no match for Lancer. Just as Lancer is about to kill him again, Shirou somehow manages to summon Saber, the most outstanding of servants, to protect him. After battling back Lancer, Saber asks "Servant Saber, at your command. Are you my master?"
…

Man, this story kicks arse.

Satsuki

I've been reading the synopses and looking at screencaps at various anime blogs, and it does look interesting. (I particularly like the concept of the Servants being heroes of old)

But from what I'm reading so far this anime would be a lot more kickass if they had less harem stupidity and if Shirou wasn't so annoying. That and more Archer. We need lots and lots more Archer.

Malintex_Terek

@Satsuki:

I've been reading the synopses and looking at screencaps at various anime blogs, and it does look interesting. (I particularly like the concept of the Servants being heroes of old)

Archer finds Shirou annoying, too…

snickers

Don't worry about seeing more Archer. If the Anime follows the UBW a bit more (which is likely the best of the scenarios), we'll likely see a great deal of him before the show ends.

@Satsuki:

But from what I'm reading so far this anime would be a lot more kickass if they had less harem stupidity and if Shirou wasn't so annoying. That and more Archer. We need lots and lots more Archer.

Ahh, I know the blogs you are talking of. They're run mostly by whiny fools who want to see non-stop action in the show; the fate/stay night game is primarily an "H" visual novel, where the action is simply an addition. Assuredly, this series isn't half over and we've had a handful of conflicts; I can guarantee the last eight or ten episodes are going to be filled with enough fighting to satisfy even a Dragonball Z buff, except this fighting is much more original and enchanting.

The "harem" aspect is of curiosity, as in the original game there are three scenarios are only ONE girl was featured in each. With the Anime, the viewers have no idea on which girl is likely going to prevail with Shirou. As of yet, the show has primarily followed the "fate" scenario with a couple scenes from "Unlimited Blade Works", with nothing from the radical "Heaven's Feel" situation. We'll just have to wait and see how things play out.

Satsuki

I am hardly a fan who needs nonstop action in a show, but from the screencaps alone I can tell there's too much harem stupidity going on. But I'm letting it slide since the series is still young. Still, it would be nice if they left behind the harem stuff and concentrated a bit more on the Servants. The Servants are awesome! (and what happened to all that great banter between Rin and Archer?)

But you gotta admit, from the premise of the show (the war for the Holy Grail) you'd think there would be more action. I'm just expecting most of it in the last ten episodes.

and it doesn't change the fact that Shirou is annoying.

Malintex_Terek

@Satsuki:

I am hardly a fan who needs nonstop action in a show, but from the screencaps alone I can tell there's too much harem stupidity going on. But I'm letting it slide since the series is still young. Still, it would be nice if they left behind the harem stuff and concentrated a bit more on the Servants. The Servants are awesome! (and what happened to all that great banter between Rin and Archer?)

Episode eight alone had any serious harem elements; there was some in seven, but episodes one, two, four, five, six, and nine are all about the fights. Even then, only one character, Tohsaka Rin, is really pushing the harem part of this show, but viewers who see episode one are given a hint as to why things go in that direction.

! In the first episode, Shirou is killed by Lancer, but he is revived by Rin. She uses a fairly powerful pendant to revive him (it's actually the artifact she used to call Archer), so it's quite a mystery as to why she did this. We find out later…

@Satsuki:

But you gotta admit, from the premise of the show (the war for the Holy Grail) you'd think there would be more action. I'm just expecting most of it in the last ten episodes.

Things won't heat up until Shirou gets some fighting skills (he just about to start training as of 3/3/06). He won't let Saber fight for him, so until he manages to hold his own in battle, nothing serious will start in the show. Personally, I think that's what really distinguishes fate; watching servants fight one another is kinda like Pokemon, what with the special abilities and such. And then, when one servant is getting his/her arse kicked, here comes THE HEART OF THE CARDS…I mean, Noble Phantasm, to save the day!

On the other hand, we've got a weakling mage like Shirou who wants to battle against the servants in Saber's place. It's almost the same as having Ash Ketchum battle pokemon in place of Pikachu; if Ash had some skills and could hold his own in battle, such a matchup wouldn't be lame. Rather, it would be kinda interesting!

@Satsuki:

and it doesn't change the fact that Shirou is annoying.

You have no idea how much I chuckle when you say that.

igalsfy

i'm still wondering if i'll watch it. well, i've got ep 1 & 2 on my PC so i'll give it a try later.

Praxis

Definatly an interesting series, but it kinda went harem a tad fast. But you just have to remember what the game is based on so ^_^

Praxis

This post is deleted!

Malintex_Terek

! Archer better not fudging die in episode fourteen or there's going to be a ton of pissed FSN fans. I mean, ex-FSN fans. -.-

Buuhan1

Its on youtube, should I watch it?

I'm watching the 1st scene of episode 1 right now at the moment, Malintex.

Even after the 1st part, its already blowing me away.

The fight scenes looked so badass.

So, the story mainly revolves around a War for the Holy Grail right?(Didn't read spoiler tag)

What should I expect when watching the rest of Fayt/Stay Night?

Its very good so far.

EDIT-The opening is also very nice to listen to ^_^.

Malintex_Terek

Buuhan: Yeah, it's really good stuff. Especially the first four episodes. I hope those episodes are subbed.

Daisuke: You can expect some episodes to be like the first four, and some to focus on character development. FSN is really decisive about that; development is completely seperate from fighting, which has prompted many people to complain about pacing. I myself like the way the show is progressing, but IF:

! Archer dies against Berserker…

I will be PISSED!!

Buuhan1

They're subbed. I'll watch tomorrow.

God, I'm watching too many animes via youtube now….I've lost count.

@Malintex_Terek:

Daisuke: You can expect some episodes to be like the first four, and some to focus on character development. FSN is really decisive about that; development is completely seperate from fighting, which has prompted many people to complain about pacing.

Character development, eh?

So, all the developments are seperate from the medival style sword combat. Anyway, what are the heroes and villians' fighting style in FSN? When I saw the scene with the girl summoning a guy from a card, I heard him say "I…sure was picked by a wonderful master." Is it like in Gash Bell or Mahou Sensei Negima in some way like they fight with partners in combat? Oh and are the flashbacks in FSN mostly sad? Oh and what's with the boy who collapsed in a raining city in the part after the opening? Will he be a main character? Whois he?

Malintex_Terek

@Daisuke:

So, all the developments are seperate from the medival style sword combat. Anyway, what are the heroes and villians' fighting style in FSN? When I saw the scene with the girl summoning a guy from a card, I heard him say "I…sure was picked by a wonderful master." Is it like in Gash Bell or Mahou Sensei Negima in some way like they fight with partners in combat? Oh and are the flashbacks in FSN mostly sad? Oh and what's with the boy who collapsed in a raining city in the part after the opening? Will he be a main character? Whois he?

It's a whopping great deal more complicated than that; the story went over my head when I first tried to assimiate everything. See my first spoiler for a synopsis of the first two episodes of FSN, which includes a biography of Shirou. I would rather you watch the episodes instead, though. In any matter, here's my best, low-spoiler attempt at a hypothesis.

The Holy Grail War has fourteen participants (roughly); seven masters and seven servants. The masters are sorcerers; they are skilled with magic and a literally mana batteries. The servants are warriors; powerful ones. Heroic Spirits from the past and present are called forth from the "Hall of Heroes" and are given physical bodies to combat other servant-master pairs; they servants and masters are working together to obtain the Holy Grail, the legendary mystic artifact that Jesus Christ drank with at the Last Supper that also collected Christ's blood. The Holy Grail in the TYPE-MOON universe has the ability to grant one wish, and everyone wants it!

The sorcerers have a variety of abilities, most of which are none-to-impressive and pale in comparison to the servants. The servants, whom are pooled from all across history and different nations, have many different abilities; their "special" abilities, or rather, their "most" special/powerful abilities are called Noble Phantasms, which can take the form of a spell, a technique, and most commonly, a magical item with a hidden ability. Noble Phantasms are ranked accordingly, from lowest to highest:

E, D, C, B, A, A+, A++, EX

As a consequence of using a Noble Phantasm, a servant must call out the NP's name, revealing his/her identity. Typically, male sorcerers are paired with female servants, and visa versa, due to a certain, uh, mana transfer technique. At least, that's what TYPE-MOON says.

There are [eight] possible classes of servant, which are independent of a servant's identity and simply (or magically) give a servant a bonus toward his/her personal strengths.

Saber (melee), Berserker (melee), Lancer (melee), Assassin (covert/melee), Archer (ranged), Rider (melee), Caster (ranged), Avenger (???).

Avenger is a weird case and it's kinda not but actually is a class, but it isn't likely to be mentioned in the FSN anime. Ignore it unless one wants a huge dissertation I am disinclined to write at the moment.

Malintex_Terek

Gah! He died!

…

flush

Satsuki

:bang: :bawling:
GODDAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!

Malintex_Terek

I guess his survival wasn't meant to be. Really, though, I feel really, really bad (and I am not the only one); he must have been having a blast through this show, what with knowing everything and all, and when everything was revealed, it was so gosh darn touching.

Here's a tribute to our main man. Fare thee well, my friend!

! For those of you who know not who died, it was Archer. Here's his final ending quote (with picture) from Unlimited Blade Works.
!
! "I've finally understand, so its going to be alright, Tohsaka. I'll do my very best from now on, too."

Why is it that death and sex always seem to go hand in hand? Next week is looking very, uh, not-cool. ~.~;

Slaygore

There are times when I don't understand somethings and quite frankly its better off not knowing why. Like why archer didn't kill Ilya when I saw a chance for him to. Its not like he's the type of guy whos a afraid of killing someone, but I can understand if its for his pride. And also why is he called archer when he's mostly using swords as his main weapon.

And yah the next episode seems…well quite disturbing.

Malintex_Terek

@Slaygore:

There are times when I don't understand somethings and quite frankly its better off not knowing why. Like why archer didn't kill Ilya when I saw a chance for him to. Its not like he's the type of guy whos a afraid of killing someone, but I can understand if its for his pride. And also why is he called archer when he's mostly using swords as his main weapon.

Oh? Here's why (spoiler[?], but mostly just elaboration).

! Archer knew Ilya in his past life, before he became a servant. He also knew Shirou, Rin, and Saber. He was especially close to Saber; I would say they are star-crossed lovers.
! Also, Archer is primarily an archer, but he likes fighting in close combat. It's just a preference, even though he's not as powerful as other servants in that category. Call it a testament to his former teacher(s). When he wants to kill something, he brings out his long bow and summons swords. Unlike most other servants, he really doesn't have a Noble Phantasm, but his 'Reality Marble', which is basically one of the highest level sorceries in exitence, allows him to summon an unlimited number of weapons. Each sword is basically a Noble Phantasm, or a magical weapon; Archer turns the swords into arrows and fires them.
! Ergo, Archer was having fun with Lancer in that first fight of the series. He could have wasted Lancer if he wanted to (and did so later in another scenario), but since he knew from the beginning how everything was going to play out, he decided to goof around. It's really funny because people wouldn't expect that from a non-nonsense, cynical guy like him. Here's a funny quote.
! Rin: Archer, what would you wish for?
Archer: I'm not really interested in the Holy Grail. But if I had it…ehh...maybe world peace.

@Slaygore:

And yah the next episode seems…well quite disturbing.

Disgusting. In the game, it was all out of necessity to survive, but after showing his death, it's going to be fanservice-ish and a complete sacrilege to his sacrifice. Rin said, "don't get attatched to your servant, they're not real", but if I'm not mistaken, she WAS crying. Its even more painful know who he was!

Malintex_Terek

PUNKED! Ahahaha! Those stupid "shag-fiends" who were jeering about Archer's death landed face-first in a great green steaming pile of manure!

Buuhan1

Still haven't watched it yet. Jeez, I do to many things lately. XD

Advent

@Malintex_Terek:

Oh? Here's why (spoiler[?], but mostly just elaboration).

! Archer knew Ilya in his past life, before he became a servant. He also knew Shirou, Rin, and Saber. He was especially close to Saber; I would say they are star-crossed lovers.
! Also, Archer is primarily an archer, but he likes fighting in close combat. It's just a preference, even though he's not as powerful as other servants in that category. Call it a testament to his former teacher(s). When he wants to kill something, he brings out his long bow and summons swords. Unlike most other servants, he really doesn't have a Noble Phantasm, but his 'Reality Marble', which is basically one of the highest level sorceries in exitence, allows him to summon an unlimited number of weapons. Each sword is basically a Noble Phantasm, or a magical weapon; Archer turns the swords into arrows and fires them.
! Ergo, Archer was having fun with Lancer in that first fight of the series. He could have wasted Lancer if he wanted to (and did so later in another scenario), but since he knew from the beginning how everything was going to play out, he decided to goof around. It's really funny because people wouldn't expect that from a non-nonsense, cynical guy like him. Here's a funny quote.
! Rin: Archer, what would you wish for?
Archer: I'm not really interested in the Holy Grail. But if I had it…ehh...maybe world peace.

! Archer is Shirou.

Malintex_Terek

Wow, just from my clues? Or perhaps the blantant reference in episode fifteen? XD

…

Anyway, here's a reward.

! Huge spoiler. Don't click if you want the series ruined.

! I'm telling you, stay away unless you know Archer's identity.

! LAST WARNING!

!

Advent

@Malintex_Terek:

Wow, just from my clues? Or perhaps the blantant reference in episode fifteen? XD

No, from knowing this sence before the series even started airing.

Malintex_Terek

@Advent`:

No, from knowing this sence before the series even started airing.

Oh? Pity; I'm the same way. Not that it's a bad thing; the Anime fudged up his identity pretty badly. -.-;

…

As MUCH as I hated episode fourteen, this week's showing was really, really bad. Saber looked pathetic in comparison to how much arse Archer kicked, and apparently, Berserker regenerates lives. Berserker had, what, five lives left, and then he had six before Rin shaved off his head? ~.~;;

Mister_Anbu

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

That basically sums up my feelings of the series. :x

Absolutely magnificent, I watched all 24 episodes in a row. free time. I can't believe this thread died, how could you just let it die Malintex? If anyone is in need of an awesome series, give this one a check in.

Anyways, I'm extremely interested in the other scenarios, is there any way for me to find out what they were?

! I can't believe Archer died like that, he didn't really appear in any of the episodes after his introduction, but he was badass and I knew it. Everyone should know it. Then with his fight against beserker, I found it awesome that he took away 5 lives of Heracles, and UBW is absolutely awesome. I love how he used English to do some of his attacks, it was an awesome voice. I love basically everything of this series.
! I was definately on my toes, hoping that Saber would stay and have a Disney ending with Shirou(what a loser), but I did not get my wish. What a sad ending, closest I've come to tears since FFX's ending. I completely loved the historical aspect of the series, with past heroes coming back to fight. Awesome. Although one thing, I do not understand why King Arthur was a chick, can someone explain that to me? I really got confused as to why she was King Arthur.
! Anyways, this show is badass. Definately one of my favorites of all time. edits signature

project1980

Glad there was a thread for this.Badass series is series.Just got done with ep. 1&2 and i'm feeling it so far Archer is definitely that mofo.Going to catch up with the game when I have more time.

Malintex_Terek

Saw the UBW movie. A lot of people claim it's rushed, and I agree that's true at times, but since the story was a lot better than Fate's, it was more coherent even if only Archer and Shirou got development. It improved on the novel by cutting out the injury exaggerations, but replaced that with tons of blood loss.

Ilya. ;_; A horrible scene, but only for people who've already grown attached to her. If one only saw the movie, the concern with Ilya would have seemed arbitrary.

I didn't like a chunk of the action scenes though, so overall, I'd say this movie was better than the anime, but only because it swapped weaknesses and strengths with the anime, and since the anime had more weaknesses than strengths, this had more strengths than weaknesses.