Argh, the God-Hand responded. Rebuttles to appear here (boy, I sound like ooshi o.o).
You don't have to be to just look at the numbers and say that One Piece isn't doing that badly. I'm certainly not.
What you think doesn't really matter. It's what the public thinks, and the public communicates to Viz in terms of numbers; quanities of manga produced and sold. Whether or not we think OP is doing well doesn't matter; our opinions on sales are always second to data.
Wow, so a show on a block designed around anime by people who have successfully promoted such shows for almost a decade does better than it does on 4Kids. Whatever are the chances of that?
Your English confused me…I think you mean FoxKids/Saban? That company really had only one major Anime blockbuster (though it had Power Rangers and a bunch of American-made shows); Digimon. Digimon was probably the most perfect series for non-cable television; the monsters vaporized when they died, the attacks couldn't be imitated by children, and it was well acted. Even though the show had a tongue-in-cheek dub, it was done at such a high quality that the inserted puns were a strength, not a weakness. Digimon probably set the precedent for 4Kids' modern method of dubbing.
And if you havn't noticed, Ubiq, there are a number of "4Kids.tv" logos on the channel, indicating that 4Kids.tv is not FoxKids, nor is it FoxBox.
I doubt it'd hurt it that much; back in November, Naruto was only drawing .2 of a ratings point more than One Piece, which means that One Piece is doing a remarkable job holding its viewers. It might draw less without Naruto as a lead-in, but it shouldn't collapse either.
I agree, though Naruto was only a month or so old in November…oh, you mean the Nielson Ratings report for November? I remember that, though I think Naruto was .8 higher, and there a couple of factors to incorporate.
The first is that dub OP fans were forced to tune into CN to see OP; of all the arcs done so far in the series, Drum is agreed upon by most of Arlong Park to be the best dubbed arc of the series. Lastly, Naruto started in late September...hrmm, I'm guessing that was the beginning of the Zabuza arc, which was long but had serious action in it, as well as good drama.
From my amateur point of view, the OP dub was at a high point during the ratings period, while Naruto was still trying to get off the ground. Furthermore, the dub was also put in a favorable spot at 10:00 right behind Naruto at 9:30.
Why lead off Miguzi if it's not able to stand on its own, why not put it on after Yu-Gi-Oh GX and let it draw off that show's viewers?
Although I first reported the Miguzi broadcast, I really know little what's going on there. I'll trust you to brief me on the matter; how long is Miguzi, when does it start, and what are the constituent shows aside from YGOGX and OP?
SO FRICKIN' WHAT IF IT'S NUMBER ONE IN JAPAN? It's not number one here, but that doesn't make it a failure.
Youre definition of failure is different from mine, and we are both likely different from Viz. I think OP is a failure because it is a failed phenomenon; it is a cash-cow in Japan, and many cash-cows there carry through to America with a couple exceptions, likely do to dispositions. Your definition of a failure is probably that OP barely exceeds production costs and doesn't have a strong audience, and that the final "sign" of failure is Viz announcing a discontinuation. Am I correct in this?
I should note, though, that we should compare OP sales to Bo-Bobo, Slam Dunk, Hikaru no Go and Prince of Tennis before calling OP a failure in your definition. While OP isn't a phenomenon and is no longer in the same league as Bleach, Naruto and FMA, hopefully it sells better than the aforementioned. If it doesn't, then things are quite grim for Oda's masterpiece.
Americans are not Japanese and respond differently. Sometimes their interests coincide with what's popular in Japan and sometimes they don't.
The Big O is an excellent example of that.
Big O began as an experiment, though. What brought it back were DVD sales; money was influential in its return.
The marketing for the dub is quite a bit better on Cartoon Network than it was on Fox. Not surprisingly, the dub is doing better on Toonami than it did on 4Kids TV. If I recall correctly, there's been speculation on Toonzone and a few other places that it might eventually make its way back on 4Kids based on it's Toonami success.
It should be on 4Kids.tv regardless of success; 4Kids is wasting expenses by editing heavily for Toonami. OP was tied with TMNT as the highest rated show there for a while. 4Kids.tv attracts mostly girls, though.
Actually, it's doing remarkably well in the 9-14 demographic as well as the 6-11 demographic if I recall correctly. It did in fact replace Yu Yu Hakusho, but it's ratings for December were pretty close to Naruto's. Are you now going to argue that the Naruto dub has not been a success?
…blast, gettin' nagged. I'll respond later...
Here's the November numbers, I'm still hunting for more recent stats. Most cable lists only have the top 10 or 15 shows and even Naruto doesn't show up on that list for the dates that I can find. For most shows, you have to wait for the network itself to issue a press release and they only do that every so often.
As far as manga sales go, the only numbers I can find are the Diamond Distribution numbers and those are all but irrelevant as the direct market skews away from manga.
Uh huh. And Cartoon Network is going along with this why exactly if One Piece isn't at least drawing numbers to make it somewhat worthwhile?
Not that much smaller from what I've seen. From what I gather, it holds most of Naruto's key demographics.
Because you're arguing that One Piece is a failure in the US based on numbers, which isn't the case. You can't just decide it's a failure because you don't like what they're doing with it when your argument isn't supported.
It's like claiming that scanslations will be legal again if Viz drops the series, it's something that simply isn't true.
Again, a lot of people are suggesting Shonen Jump should drop One Piece and release volumes instead. How does it benefit One Piece exactly to go from a magazine with a respectable subscriber base to monthly volumes that are recieving moderate sales at best in numbers that are less than the subscriber base?
Sorry, Ubiq; TBA at a later time.
In all honesty do we want OP to turn into something as successful as DBZ, Naruto and YGO? I've seen alot of people anti DB and YGO, partly because of how popular they have become. I'm slightly anti Naruto because of the way most of the fans react towards it. Do we want One Piece to go down the same path? I personally don't. Don't get me wrong - I'd like it to be in the top 10 rather than the top 20 (which isn't all that bad IMO), but I don't want the people who bad mouth DBZ and YGO to add OP to their list.
One Piece is different from DBZ and YGO; it doesn't suck with age. OP will soon surpass Ranma 1/2 in length without any decrease in quality; sure, people might dislike some arcs more than others, but overall Oda just gets better and better. DBZ and YGO are hated because they're redundant and cliche; after DB, inventing new techniques and using them against an opponent was repleaced for non-stop punching and random ki blasts. Technique was superseded by strength. YGO is much the same; so many new cards were introduced into the game, people didn't know the content of a character's deck, so predicting how a character could win a duel wasn't as fun; protagonists would always win unless convienent to do so. OP would be the first run-away success that could be justified.
BatDan: My sister purchased Animerica. Here are the classifications of three big Shounen Jump titles. Analyze them carefully.
Dragon Ball: For most, this title brings visions of days-long power charging and months-long battles to mind. Before artist/writer Akira Toriyama made the whimsical tales of Goku into an in-print pay-per-view event, however, there was still a level of raw adventure that still remains virtually unsurpassed. Dragon Ball is the perfect example of a series that captures imaginations and runs berserk with wild ideas while still remaining charming and hillarious. Ranked #5 of 10.
Rurouni Kenshin: What would the world of manga be without its period pieces? better yet, what would anime and manga fandom be without Nobuhiro Watsuki's iconic wandering swordsman Kenshin? Just think, while pondering these rhetorical questions you could have been flipping through one of Japan's most popular series, which ran from 1994 to 1999 and sliced through over 25 graphic novels of former-assassin Action. Ranked #7 of 10.
One Piece: Exciting tales that still maintain a certain level of childlike playfullness without making you feel like an actual child are pretty rare nowadays. Before, there were series such as Toriyama's Dragon Ball and, thanks to his influence, we now have the adventures of Monkey D. Luffy and his rag=tag [orate crew. Eiichiro Oda's knockout hit is hovering around its 40th volume in Japan and remains one of manga's true simple pleasures. Ranked #9 of 10.
To quote the movie, "Analyze this"! Here's my quick take before I respond to the God-Hand; Viz gave OP some good publicity, but there's more harm in that summary than benefit.