Chapter 358 "Revival" Discussion

Battle Franky

Finally, I can access the forums.

Urgh! Pretty late, I guess all the major points have been covered here & on Kefi. I guess I'll just go with the discussion from here on. :mellow:

Jonio

I haven't read all of the comments in this thread…but I have an idea concerning the upcomming fights in the manga:

I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot of Team efforts this time around.

Usopp/Franky v. Spandam
Zoro/Luffy v. Lucci and Blueno?
Chopper/Paulie v. Kaku/Calipha
Sanji/Nami v. Robin?

Not sure, but it seems to be setting up for that. I mean right now, we have no idea where Sanji is, Nami is alone (so you know Sanji can sniff her out). Zoro and Luffy were sent flying together, and they'll both be hungry for some BIG revenge. Usopp and Franky are together sorta, and Chopper and Paulie are currently together too.

And just an off the wall comment: Chopper fighting with a sword? Could be funny/awesome.

All I'm REALLY looking forward to as far as fights is Sanji/Paulie vs. Calipha. I can guarantee it would be the funniest battle since Bon Clay vs. Sanji. Not to mention Paulie has a rope, Calipha has a whip. Sanji has extraordinary kicking skills and when we first met Calipha she used some sort of Chun-Li hyper kick on Luffy. It all works out =P

Chopper vs. Lucci would be a good predator vs. prey fight, and a serious one for Chopper. As for the rest, I dunno. Luffy/Usopp vs. Spandam might be cool if he's powerful enough that either of them would likely be defeated alone. As for the rest I dunno. Zoro vs. Kaku maybe? and uhh… Blueno vs... Nami? :huh:

This is assuming that the arc becomes a "rescue Franky" mission. Otherwise its gotta come down to Spandam vs. Franky at some point. B)

GunMetalReloaded

The thing too is, not everyone needs to fight in this arc. I've said all along that since Chopper IS a doctor and Iceberg has been bleeding for like the past 30 chapters now, he could stay behind and take care of him (and remember, he did have a fight in Skypiea so someone else can fight in this arc).

The people who I do think WILL fight for the Straw Hats are:
Luffy
Zoro
Sanji
Usopp
Paulie

Then we have the CP9 definites:
Lucci
Kaku
Calipha
Blueno

I think who actually fights who though is up in the air. Zoro already fought Kaku once but with their noses, Usopp may end up fighting him. Calipha and Paulie have similar weapons but Paulie has had issues with Lucci even before the betrayal. Lucci going leopard will probably be the only time where more than one Strawhat takes on a person from CP9 at a time. Whether they are government agents or not, all two-against-one fights makes the Straw Hats just seem weak in my opinion.

I think Robin is too powerful right now for a one-on-one fight in her own right. She may be used to sneak into Eneas Lobby to rescue Franky possibly or take out multiple guards there at once. She may get involved though in the Leopard Lucci fight.

Spandam will probably stay behind and torture Franky a bit, though with his little rapier, he may get involved in some kind of altercation at the end. Franky is a given for taking out Spandam.

Nami could get involved in something as well but I don't really see her fighting in this arc. I see her maybe teaming up with Robin to go on the "errand" role doing whatever investigating/snooping needs to be done in this arc at Eneas Lobby.

There could be some kind of altercation still on the Sea Train but it looks like the arc's climax will be at Eneas Lobby. The climax will involve Spandam and he is not leaving Eneas Lobby so the story has to go to him.

Awesome…so cannot wait for a "train" scene (definitely want to see what Oda does with it)

Originally posted by Golden Dragoon@Mar 12 2005, 03:39 PM
**All I'm REALLY looking forward to as far as fights is Sanji/Paulie vs. Calipha. I can guarantee it would be the funniest battle since Bon Clay vs. Sanji. Not to mention Paulie has a rope, Calipha has a whip. Sanji has extraordinary kicking skills and when we first met Calipha she used some sort of Chun-Li hyper kick on Luffy. It all works out =P

Chopper vs. Lucci would be a good predator vs. prey fight, and a serious one for Chopper. As for the rest, I dunno. Luffy/Usopp vs. Spandam might be cool if he's powerful enough that either of them would likely be defeated alone. As for the rest I dunno. Zoro vs. Kaku maybe? and uhh… Blueno vs... Nami? :huh:

This is assuming that the arc becomes a "rescue Franky" mission. Otherwise its gotta come down to Spandam vs. Franky at some point. B)
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Okay, what makes you think the strawhats would ever do a 2 on 1 fight? They never have before, and the majority of them are too honorable as warriors to fight dirty like that.

One thing I don't get is if Robin is REALLY with CP9, how come she doesn't know the roku-shiki?

The other agents have probably been trained ever since they were in the womb or something. Robin's just needed to translate an' stuff. At least, I think so.

GunMetalReloaded

I don't think Robin's an official member of CP9. She's just working with them at the moment. They stumbled upon her in W7 and just picked her up. I think we'll learn more about her real soon. Sanji should be re-entering the fray anytime now for one thing and the other thing is, Iceberg and Franky both know something about her. She'll end up redeeming herself in some way (maybe saving Franky?) that will get Ice to trust her and all will be forgiven since she never actually attacked him.

Cap'n Carter

Sanji wouldn't fight Califa.

Also, at this point I'd be happy with either Pauley or Franky joining (though I'd prefer Franky). Even if we don't get who we want, I'm sure Oda has a plan that'll make us love the new mate like he's made us love the others. Remember, we didn't see what Usopp was truly capable of until 2 arcs after he joined!

For some reason, I have an easier time imagining Franky goofing off and hanging out in color spreads than Pauley.

Or singing in those goofy group songs. (Or character singles, for that matter.)

Cap'n Carter

Because I got bored and I was in a juvenile mood.

Miss White day

The juvenile mood must be contagious because that sure got me laughing. :lol:

Battle Franky

Originally posted by ectoplasmic@Mar 13 2005, 09:43 AM
Or singing in those goofy group songs. (Or character singles, for that matter.)
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:lol:

Hah, that's true. But you'd think someone like Zoro would be out of place in the image songs & character singles, but surprisingly his seiyuu doesn't sound half bad when they sing.

I'd say Robin's seiyuu sounds the most out of place in the group songs, usually due to the up tempo beat of the song. But her character single, is a much better representation of her singing ability.

Cap'n Carter

Zoro's seiyuu has a really great singing voice.

Originally posted by Cap'n Carter@Mar 12 2005, 09:05 PM
Zoro's seiyuu has a really great singing voice.
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Yeah, Kazuya Nakai and Yuriko Yamaguchi are perfect voices for their characters, respectively.

Back on topic:

It's definitely a Zoro versus (all of) CP9 fight.

Zoro could easily whoop them all.

Carly

Originally posted by Battle Franky+Mar 12 2005, 06:03 PM–>QUOTE(Battle Franky @ Mar 12 2005, 06:03 PM)

sgamer82

Question, does the end of the flashback mean that things are going to really heat up now?

Eight of the eleven or so past story arcs has had a big flashback in the midst of, or immediately before, the moments the story really starts up. So unless Robin's flashback will be the trigger for our excitement peak, I think we're due.

omg I really hope so. I bet this story arc will consume my brain, rendering me unable to think about anything else than how great One Piece and Odacchi are. Forget imperialism or geology! THIS IS WHERE I WANT TO BE.

Battle Franky

I'd think Oda will start picking up the pace again. Though if you look at the individual situations facing the Strawhats (Usopp & Robin) everyone is really on the back foot. There's going to be a lot of confusion to what's going on, no one knows where CP9 & Franky are, only Usopp. Where is Sanji & how much does he know? What has become of Zoro & Luffy, both Chopper & Nami are out of it, not to mention the fact that Robin has apparenlty left the crew for good!

I think Oda will have to use the next three or four chapters, to bring all the major parties together & make things more clearer, before we can see the next chain of events take place.

VildaHawk

Originally posted by GunMetal: Reloaded@Mar 12 2005, 05:50 PM
I don't think Robin's an official member of CP9.Â She's just working with them at the moment.Â They stumbled upon her in W7 and just picked her up.Â I think we'll learn more about her real soon.Â Sanji should be re-entering the fray anytime now for one thing and the other thing is, Iceberg and Franky both know something about her.Â She'll end up redeeming herself in some way (maybe saving Franky?) that will get Ice to trust her and all will be forgiven since she never actually attacked him.
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I don't know that they "just stumbled upon her." I don't think that was their first meeting. I believe that Robin must have been connected somehow to CP9 in the past. Maybe she owes them some sort of debt?

Great stuff, Cap'n Carter.

EDIT:
Do you think Spanda is a cyborg, too?

Well, we know Franky didn't build him, and just because one person becomes a cyborg doesn't mean other people will also start. You know what I mean?

Ubiq

Originally posted by VildaHawk@Mar 13 2005, 12:28 AM
I don't know that they "just stumbled upon her." I don't think that was their first meeting. I believe that Robin must have been connected somehow to CP9 in the past. Maybe she owes them some sort of debt?
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I think it's likely that Robin has had some contact with Cipher Pol sometime before; either before she joined forces with Crocodile or during. She identified herself as an assassin, which is a primary function of CP9. Maybe we've been going about this the wrong way and Robin has secretly been an agent of the World Government for decades;' the bounty is a cover story.

I still find it suspicious that Crocodile was looking for essentially the same thing in Alabasta as CP9 was looking for in Water 7 and that the two seperate operations began less than a year apart. Crocodile must have been gathering resources for the Baroque Works shortly after CP9 infiltrated Galley-La.

All this is giving me a headache actually, but at least I we finally know what happened to chopper and Iceberg.

Knight

_Originally posted by Ubiq+Mar 13 2005, 12:51 AM–>QUOTE(Ubiq @ Mar 13 2005, 12:51 AM)I think it's likely that Robin has had some contact with Cipher Pol sometime before; either before she joined forces with Crocodile or during. She identified herself as an assassin, which is a primary function of CP9. Maybe we've been going about this the wrong way and Robin has secretly been an agent of the World Government for decades;' the bounty is a cover story.

I still find it suspicious that Crocodile was looking for essentially the same thing in Alabasta as CP9 was looking for in Water 7 and that the two seperate operations began less than a year apart. Crocodile must have been gathering resources for the Baroque Works shortly after CP9 infiltrated Galley-La.
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Well, I agree that Robin must have some sort of connection with CP9 in the past since she was shocked to hear that name the first time. However, I don't think that she was a member of CP9 or the World Government. Robin never intended for the weapon to re -recreated in any way, which is why she never told Crocodile about it. And in W7, she was also quite suprised about CP9's true intention about Ancient Weapons when she heard about it from Iceberg.

@Mar 13 2005, 12:54 AM
All this is giving me a headache actually, but at least I we finally know what happened to chopper and Iceberg.
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Well, said Doho :lol: All that's left is to see where is Luffy, Zorro, Sanji & Robin

Buccaneer

_Originally posted by TheTalentedMr.Sanji+Mar 12 2005, 05:40 PM–>QUOTE(TheTalentedMr.Sanji @ Mar 12 2005, 05:40 PM)Okay, what makes you think the strawhats would ever do a 2 on 1 fight? They never have before, and the majority of them are too honorable as warriors to fight dirty like that.
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Thank you. I'd be fairly annoyed if Luffy let himself celebrate a 2 on 1 victory.

Originally posted by Cap'n Carter@Mar 12 2005, 06:17 PM
**Sanji wouldn't fight Califa.

Also, at this point I'd be happy with either Pauley or Franky joining (though I'd prefer Franky). Even if we don't get who we want, I'm sure Oda has a plan that'll make us love the new mate like he's made us love the others. Remember, we didn't see what Usopp was truly capable of until 2 arcs after he joined!

For some reason, I have an easier time imagining Franky goofing off and hanging out in color spreads than Pauley.
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And thank you. This is exactly what I'd say.

@Mar 12 2005, 09:03 PM
But her character single, is a much better representation of her singing ability.
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I love her character single. It's what made me like her character.

CosmicDebris

Do you think Spanda is a cyborg, too?

Nah, I think he's just into S&M.

Okay, what makes you think the strawhats would ever do a 2 on 1 fight? They never have before

First time for everything? They'd never fought a male ballerina before Sanji fought Bon Clay, doesn't mean they were never going to. According to Oda Luffy hasn't killed yet, doesn't mean he never will, period. Considering most of CP9 (other than Lucci) from what we've seen are all equally overpowered compared to the strawhats, its not like they wouldn't fight together against an enemy to save their lives.

Sanji wouldn't fight Calipha

As chivalrous as Sanji may be, he wasn't very much against fighting Nico Robin (then Miss Allsunday) when she popped up uninvited on the Merry following Whiskey Peak. Sanji's a dedicated ladies man but he still has his priorities. Considering the fact that Calipha is extremely dangerous, he may think twice about letting her off easy… That is until she flashes him with that skimpy outfit, but if she does that Paulie would get pissed off and attack.

About Paulie having beef with Lucci... Calipha was the closest member of Galley La to Iceberg other than Paulie by a long shot and Blueno has shot Iceberg not once, but twice in his own room. While he was laying in bed. If you ask me the only one Paulie doesn't have critically serious beef with would be Kaku, as for the others there are plenty of reasons to take it personal.

Buccaneer

Sanji would have fought Robin for Nami's sake, but he didn't. He has the capability, but it just wouldn't be right if he actually did.

Same thing for Luffy. He has pride as a man. He knew perfectly well that Kiji could kill him, but he didn't try to see it through as a three on one.

I don't think it would ruin Sanji to fight a woman as powerful as Calipha, sexy as she may be. I was just saying he's not incapable, and Calipha may be able to play upon his greatest weakness. Thats what makes the fight interesting, along with Paulie and Sanji's completely opposite reactions toward women of Calipha's foxy persuation.

I remember Aokiji thinking to himself after defeating Luffy: "Did you challenge me in order to protect your friends….Or maybe you honestly thought you could win?" I think the real reason Luffy challenged Aokiji to a man to man duel was less about pride, and much more out of concern for his mates. Like 'I'll fight you, but leave the others out of this.' Robin was on the verge of death, and Sanji and Zoro had already been deftly countered. Even Nami had taken damage. Seems to me Oda, at the end of that battle, was hinting at Luffy's reasoning being "Either I can take this guy, or at the very least put my friends out of harms way."

After what he pulled in the Davy Back Fight and where it put his crew, I can understand him thinking more with his heart than with his ego at that particular moment. Luffy wasn't going to watch his crew get crushed by someone as, or perhaps even more dangerous than Crocodile. It was simply the only other option.

Edit: Gah, so many typos. :wacko:

Buccaneer

But come on, do you really want to see Sanji kick a woman?

And as for Luffy looking out for his crew: probably, but he'd do that in any fight, really.

If that woman kicked Sanji through a wall or cracked a thorned whip around his neck and proceeded to try and strangle him, I'd say anything's game. Won't stop her from using her charms to gain an even greater advantage on one hand, while facing fierce retaliation from the other. In the end though, its not very likely at all. I just imagined it for a laugh. ^_^

Also, you're right about Luffy. The ONE time he ever had considerable support from another crewmember during any battle was… damn, way back during the Buggy Arc. Even then, Buggy went after Nami first. =P

sanji-desu

I think that it would be interesting combination to have paulie and/or sanji fight against calipha. I mean calipha has her whip and her kicks, I think thats what Oda is trying to get op fans to think about.

it would be funny since paulie has something against women wearing revealing clothes and sanji totally loves women in general, so he probably wouldn't want to kick a woman.

it would be even more funny if they both fought against calipha. taha.

Buccaneer

I don't think she'll be doing many kicks with that skirt…

Originally posted by Buccaneer+Mar 13 2005, 04:18 PM–>QUOTE(Buccaneer @ Mar 13 2005, 04:18 PM)

Buccaneer

Well,they are PIRATE afterall.Who do you think they are?Saint?

…...Did you rip that line from the manga as well?

I can't totally speak for Shanks, but from what we've seen, Luffy won't go 2 on 1. If he didn't have such pride, do you really think he would have went head to head with Crocodile 3 times without any help?

Yoska

They did team up against Satori and it didn't seem to bother them at all. I would love to see more of action like it, for a changes and nobody wouldn't be let behind. But I still think Franky (Popeye) will be the one taking out Blueno (Bluto) and I'm afraid Nami and Chopper won't fight, they could be resting for a long time. Dunno about Pauly though, I would like to see him fight before the arc's over but could be that he too isn't waking up soon.

Buccaneer

Yeah, they did, but it was a bit different. Satori came out of nowhere and took them all on. And Luffy wasn't even all that determined, he just wanted to beat him to progress. Plus, like you said, it was just neat. I don't think Oda felt like having Luffy go at it alone with two perfectly good characters just watching.

Luffy And Crocodile Battle
–----------------------------
First Battle-Luffy and Crocodile alone

Second Battle-Luffy,Vivi,an injured King(Cobra),watching Nico Robin and Crocodile

Third Battle-Luffy,dying Nico Robin,injured King and Crocodile

As you see above,its not like Luffy don't want any help or saying something like 'he is mine,so don't disturb'.It just he can't.In 1st battle,he have to make sure that Vivi get to Alubana,so he have to fight Crocodile alone.In 2nd battle,Vivi have to stop the bomb,Cobra can't do anything,Robin is an enemy.In 3rd battle,Robin is dying not to mention she is enemy,Cobra can't do anything and the shrine is crumbling.

RedShanks

Nami might not fight but get some keys or prepare things before the Aqua Laguna.

Buccaneer

Originally posted by Usopp@Mar 13 2005, 12:00 PM
**Luffy And Crocodile Battle
–----------------------------
First Battle-Luffy and Crocodile alone

Second Battle-Luffy,Vivi,an injured King(Cobra),watching Nico Robin and Crocodile

Third Battle-Luffy,dying Nico Robin,injured King and Crocodile

As you see above,its not like Luffy don't want any help or saying something like 'he is mine,so don't disturb'.It just he can't.In 1st battle,he have to make sure that Vivi get to Alubana,so he have to fight Crocodile alone.In 2nd battle,Vivi have to stop the bomb,Cobra can't do anything,Robin is an enemy.In 3rd battle,Robin is dying not to mention she is enemy,Cobra can't do anything and the shrine is crumbling.
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When Luffy got pulled off of the crab, couldn't he have called for Zoro or Sanji to get off and help?

Luffy: "Sorry, I already lost to this guy once"…

Who'd he say this to? The other Straw Hats. He could have gotten one of them to go up with him, couldn't he?

sgamer82

_Originally posted by Buccaneer+Mar 13 2005, 05:24 AM–>QUOTE(Buccaneer @ Mar 13 2005, 05:24 AM)I can't totally speak for Shanks, but from what we've seen, Luffy won't go 2 on 1. If he didn't have such pride, do you really think he would have went head to head with Crocodile 3 times without any help?
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Personally, I've never considered Luffy to be one concerned with pride. Just think back to his "I can't do this" speech to Arlong. He jus tknows what he can do, and he just was confident he could defeat Crocodile solo. So the others didnt' need to get involved. They could put their skills to better use elsewhere (I can't say if Luffy was considering this, but that is how it worked out).

Originally posted by Buccaneer@
When Luffy got pulled off of the crab, couldn't he have called for Zoro or Sanji to get off and help?

He couldn't have had Zoro or Sanji help him fromt he crab because then Vivi's safety wouldn't be guaranteed. With those two along, Vivi had a better chance than if she went with just Nami, Usopp, and Chopper.

**Luffy: "Sorry, I already lost to this guy once"…

Who'd he say this to? The other Straw Hats. He could have gotten one of them to go up with him, couldn't he?**_

_He could've gotten help. But (1) it was still his fight. (2) Considering Crocodile's power, would the others have been any help? Luffy had a plan and, for all intents and purposes, it worked. Croc just pulled one surprise more than Luffy.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong._

VildaHawk

Luffy is very big on having honorable fights. He wouldn't let Jonny and Yosaku help Zoro out with Mihawk. He didn't want Buggy to go after Nami while they were in the middle of a fight. I think it's safe to say that Luffy takes his fighting ethics very seriously.

Yoska

Originally posted by RedShanks@Mar 13 2005, 07:03 PM
Nami might not fight but get some keys or prepare things before the Aqua Laguna.

I've been waiting for the whole arc her to use the waver. It's capital of water but even though it should be the most handiest thing we still haven't seen it even once. Jeez, has she forgot it?

He could have gotten one of them to go up with him, couldn't he?

If somebody else had came up with him they would have been ended up just like Luffy. Dried and fried.

Buccaneer

Personally, I've never considered Luffy to be one concerned with pride. Just think back to his "I can't do this" speech to Arlong. He jus tknows what he can do, and he just was confident he could defeat Crocodile solo. So the others didnt' need to get involved. They could put their skills to better use elsewhere (I can't say if Luffy was considering this, but that is how it worked out).

He's still a proud person, just not a narcissist. He'll admit the he isn't almighty, but he wouldn't try to lose his dignity in any way, like by ganging up on someone he couldn't beat one on one.

He couldn't have had Zoro or Sanji help him fromt he crab because then Vivi's safety wouldn't be guaranteed. With those two along, Vivi had a better chance than if she went with just Nami, Usopp, and Chopper.

Zoro or Sanji. It would've worked out okay if only Zoro, Usopp, Nami, and Chopper had gone with Vivi.

He could've gotten help. But (1) it was still his fight.

That's my point.

(2) Considering Crocodile's power, would the others have been any help?

If somebody else had came up with him they would have been ended up just like Luffy. Dried and fried.

They surely couldn't have hurt. Especially since two people could wet Croc better than one. And when he got up there, he didn't know about Crocodile's ability to dry out a whole field.

But I don't just mean that this is because of pride; I feel it's a neccessity. If he can't show Robin that he can protect her from the man she fears most (Lucci), then who's to say she'll come back? Plus, Lucci beat the crap out of him in front of the rest of the crew. And Usopp was shaken up because of Kiji; if he finds out that everyone and their mom beat Luffy up, what would make him feel safe if he got back in the crew?

Yoska

To tag along with an extra is more fun. Luffy should fight alone, I don't disagree, but team effort is one of the themes of the arc and I would like to see at least a singe fight with pairing up against an opponent in the same way Usopp and Zoro took care of Jango together.

Originally posted by Yoska@Mar 13 2005, 01:06 PM
To tag along with an extra is more fun. Luffy should fight alone, I don't disagree, but team effort is one of the themes of the arc and I would like to see at least a singe fight with pairing up against an opponent in the same way Usopp and Zoro took care of Jango together.
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It's definitely a Zoro and Robin(together) versus (all of) cipher pol. no9.

I wonder how Oda's will pull it off though. :huh:

Cap'n Carter

No, Foxy will challenge CP9 to a Davy Backfight and get all of them to join his crew.

What if Foxy challenges Buggy?

Buccaneer

Carter will explode.

So I don't get it. Is GM the star of a new cover story, or…...what?

That'd be pretty damn funny….