And the name of that civilization is….....

[tony-kun]

one piece. If that were true, so many things would get tied up. I do think the city and one piece are connected. Maybe also the reason roger was killed, he found one piece, or the civilization eradicated by the world government. That was his motivation for telling people about it, to get them to look for the city.

So when he said he left everything in one piece, he might have meant the city.

Also, U notice how we never see gol's eyes, this is probobly because he has the same goofy look as luffy. What is portrayed as a crazy look, is actually the same as luffys goofy wide eye smile.

edit: I meant civilization in the topic title

[Malintex_Terek]

You mean Raftel?

[e1n]

i think he meant the kingdom that clover was talking about before he got shot.

[twomix9900]

i like the theory a lot.

[Malintex_Terek]

@e1n:

i think he meant the kingdom that clover was talking about before he got shot.

The original topic title was "and the name of that island is….....", so I was a bit confused on the matter.

[joekido the Second]

Maybe the civilization was: Mariejoa. Or maybe Shandora. Sandora seems to be everywhere… Shandora river in Alabasta, Giant Lizards of Shandora, and a Shandorian city.

What does Shandora means anyway?

[Mugiwara Kaizoku]

Great theory! Both about One Piece and Roger's look. Considering how Oda likes to puzzle things together it might be true…

[loulou]

I wonder if the 'D' thing or the name of the civilisation is something that's been hinted at before and we've overlooked it. Like "don" or something.

Also, I wonder why it would be difficult to reach Raftel…World Govt. involvement, or are the seas around it too dangerous?

[Greg]

Maybe the civilization was: Mariejoa.

Well, I dunno if I was just dumb that day but ultimately I think it was just a little hard to read (even translated). What Clover was trying to say was, the giant kingdom was actually an enemy of the country that became the World Govt. which is Mariejoa so it can't be that Mariejoa wiped out itself.

As far as it being Shandora, that's an intriguing thought and would tie in quite close to my theory of linking the people on land to the people in the sky (noting both had wings).

But I think it goes beyond that.

Oda said GIANT for a reason. I have a feeling the answer is and has been right in front of our faces and he's got to knock our underwear off with it.

Man, the similarities between freaking One Piece and LOST in how it builds upon stuff you think you know and whacks 'em around 180 degrees is amazing. Master storytelling.

[meethz]

@joekido:

Maybe the civilization was: Mariejoa. Or maybe Shandora. Sandora seems to be everywhere… Shandora river in Alabasta, Giant Lizards of Shandora, and a Shandorian city.

What does Shandora means anyway?

hey. i never thought of that! awesome find, joekido.

maybe shandora had something to do with D? this is probably like what omae said, that the answer is and has been right in front of our faces.

mysteryy~

[Ivotas]

@joekido:

Maybe the civilization was: Mariejoa. Or maybe Shandora. Sandora seems to be everywhere… Shandora river in Alabasta, Giant Lizards of Shandora, and a Shandorian city.

There was no Shandora in Arabasta. It was Sandora. The river was named like that and if I´m not mistaken the desert held that name also. Which would actually explain the name for the lizards and maybe even for the river since it splits the desert.

I don´t know what Sandora means but I was sure that the first part of the name comes from the term sand. The ora part may be a word from the ancient language that is used for geographic objects. Seeing it that Sandora is a place (desert and river) in Arabasta and that Shandora is a city from ancient Jaya it may be possible.

After all the leaders of both countries protected the Poneglyphs with their lives so they had to be either allied or even part of the ancient kingdom themselves.

[Kaku1980]

If i'd have to guess i would bet that this civlisation starts with D…. something!
and the D. clan are the last of them. And to finish this all of I think the One Piece is not a treasure of gold or so, but it is the knowlege of the old civilisation and the truth about them... But then again.. you never know about the great Oda :wacko: we'll see

[Mr_Wonx]

So if the D. Signifies decendants of this Civilization, then Black Beard might have no family tie to Ace and Luffy at all, making Ace's manhunt a little less odd, imo.

I think this is a good theory. It just goes to prove that even if you follow a character for 400 chapters, and you think you know them inside and out, you really don't.

Teach could be Luffy's Uncle, Roger's other Son.

[loulou]

@joekido:

Maybe the civilization was: Mariejoa. Or maybe Shandora. Sandora seems to be everywhere… Shandora river in Alabasta, Giant Lizards of Shandora, and a Shandorian city.

What does Shandora means anyway?

Do you mean Shandia?

[Ivotas]

@loulou:

Do you mean Shandia?

No he meant Shandora. The Shandians are the descendants of the Shandorans. The Shandorans were the civilisation from the Golden City of Shandora. The Shandians are the leftovers if you want to put it that way.

[Ubiq]

@omae:

Oda said GIANT for a reason. I have a feeling the answer is and has been right in front of our faces and he's got to knock our underwear off with it.

True, true.

How about this?

Once upon a time, the Odaverse had two major continents; one ran north to south and one ran east to west. Back then, there were three major races that inhabited the world: the giants, regular humans, and winged humans.

The giants who inhabited the east to west continent dominated the world for obvious reasons, but the winged humans were reasonably well off as they lived in the sky. Some of the regular humans were pretty well off themselves and some of them had even intermarried into the giants (don't ask me how that works as I haven't the foggiest), which produces a vast array of large humans, very large humans, and demi-giants that we still see today. Now, this civilization managed to forge the great civilization that Clover seemed to describe.

As always, there was a problem in any civilization: a few regular humans despised the situation and decided to do something about it.

The act of doing this rent the very world asunder, all but eliminating the giants and casting most of the rest of the world into darkness. Of the giants who had once constructed a shining civilization, only a few tribes remained: either those warlike enough to stand against the Ancient Weapons or those had essentially assimilated into the regular humans. Most of the more peaceable, civilized giants were wiped out by the sudden betrayl to the extent that giants are considered warlike barbarians by the common man.

All of this is speculation, but there is one important point of fact: The High Jayan civilization perished because of its association with the Unknown Country. I do not think it is a coincidence that Jaya is inhabited with giant animals or that, given time, the trees grow to immense proportions. Which is another point, considering how big those trees were after four centuries had passed, it would be interesting to see how big those trees would be given five millenia to grow…

[Greg]

Well see, I was thinking along the lines that the battle actually created Grand Line. It's also responsible somehow for all the fucked up shit there including Calm Belt, DF etc. And while that's still possible, the one thing that tends to drive me away from that thought is the fact that Mariejoa (in some form) did indeed exist back before then and I'm sure a weapon that tears the shit out the world like a bowling ball wouldn't leave one little place intact (and it would be a pretty weak plot point even with the Oda touch).

So that kinda steered me away from that but I do believe it has at least SOMETHING to do with Shandora and at that time when we find out about the damn wings we can all piss on the grave of Osamu Tezuka and claim Oda the God of Manga.

[Voodzik]

@Ubiq:

True, true.

How about this?

Once upon a time, the Odaverse had two major continents; one ran north to south and one ran east to west. Back then, there were three major races that inhabited the world: the giants, regular humans, and winged humans.

The giants who inhabited the east to west continent dominated the world for obvious reasons, but the winged humans were reasonably well off as they lived in the sky. Some of the regular humans were pretty well off themselves and some of them had even intermarried into the giants (don't ask me how that works as I haven't the foggiest), which produces a vast array of large humans, very large humans, and demi-giants that we still see today. Now, this civilization managed to forge the great civilization that Clover seemed to describe.

As always, there was a problem in any civilization: a few regular humans despised the situation and decided to do something about it.

The act of doing this rent the very world asunder, all but eliminating the giants and casting most of the rest of the world into darkness. Of the giants who had once constructed a shining civilization, only a few tribes remained: either those warlike enough to stand against the Ancient Weapons or those had essentially assimilated into the regular humans. Most of the more peaceable, civilized giants were wiped out by the sudden betrayl to the extent that giants are considered warlike barbarians by the common man.

All of this is speculation, but there is one important point of fact: The High Jayan civilization perished because of its association with the Unknown Country. I do not think it is a coincidence that Jaya is inhabited with giant animals or that, given time, the trees grow to immense proportions. Which is another point, considering how big those trees were after four centuries had passed, it would be interesting to see how big those trees would be given five millenia to grow…

I don't buy it…giants, on average, are preetty dumb from what we've seen. Doubtful civilization builders.

I think the greater likelyhood IMO is that it was a multi-species society and was torn asunder not necesarily by one race but by all of them; Arlong (and you forgot fish-men in your theory, too) type people could exist of any species. All you need is two Arlong type people of different races in the same place and a war can start pretty quick.

And with the great nation already troubled from within, a gang of smaller countries could easily decide it was time to move in and take over (this is roughly what happened to Rome.) That's my theory anyway, we'll have to see what Oda does.

[Greg]

Erm, what about Sauro? He even said not all giants come from Erbaulf (sp)

[Voodzik]

@omae:

Erm, what about Sauro? He even said not all giants come from Erbaulf (sp)

Quite true but even he didn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed. Brighter than an Elbaf giant yes, and very commited to right and wrong, but not all that good with sublety. He's the kind of guy you need to keep a civilization going, not the kind that starts one.

[Ubiq]

@omae:

Well see, I was thinking along the lines that the battle actually created Grand Line. It's also responsible somehow for all the fucked up shit there including Calm Belt, DF etc.

I don't know about the Devil Fruit, but this was largely what I was thinking myself.

And while that's still possible, the one thing that tends to drive me away from that thought is the fact that Mariejoa (in some form) did indeed exist back before then and I'm sure a weapon that tears the shit out the world like a bowling ball wouldn't leave one little place intact (and it would be a pretty weak plot point even with the Oda touch).

Ah, but where does it say that Mariejoa existed prior to the destruction of the Unknown Country as Clover exclusively referred to the [paraphrased] "nations that would become the World Government"? Who's to say that Mariejoa wasn't chosen as the center of the new World Government for the fact that it was centrally located and relatively intact after the realignment of the world?

Of course, it may have existed prior to the destruction and "miraculously" survived, which could be responsible for the designation of Mariejoa as a Holy Land.

@Voodzik:

I don't buy it…giants, on average, are preetty dumb from what we've seen. Doubtful civilization builders.

Which certainly goes against my theory that most of the more intellectual giant tribes were wiped out… oh, wait. It kind of supports that.

Anyway, they're dumb how exactly?

Dorry and Broggy have been fighting a duel for a hundred years over a matter of honor, but that's a cultural thing. They really don't seem all of that stupid to me.

Oimo and Karsie made a deal with the World Government based on the concept that the World Govenrment wasn't a bunch of malicious bastards looking to screw them over. You shouldn't have to assume that the people representing justice are lying to you, especially considering that this was well before the Golden Age of Piracy.

Outside of that, we have Sauro and Big Bun, who, interestingly enough, both use "ishi ishi ishi" laughs, which might suggest that Sauro is simply a Wotan whose giant ancestry is much more apparent than his fishman ancestry. Big Bun didn't even really talk so there's no way to really say, but I don't think we can judge Sauro an idiot either. He's a bit withdrawn and soft-spoken for a giant, but he is obviously more introspective than people give him credit for.

I think the greater likelyhood IMO is that it was a multi-species society and was torn asunder not necesarily by one race but by all of them; Arlong (and you forgot fish-men in your theory, too) type people could exist of any species. All you need is two Arlong type people of different races in the same place and a war can start pretty quick.

Well, first of all, I didn't say it wasn't a multi-species society, but that it was dominated by giants for logical reasons. Fishmen would largely be in the same boat as the regular humans and even intermarry as well judging by the fact that there's actually a name for a Fishman-Giant hybrid.

[Greg]

While I agree I don't think he's gonna start interpreting IR scans, I have to say personally I didn't see anything about him that made him say downright dumb. He has a thick accent but seemed like a sharp tack to me, especially granted his position. I think it's proof that some truly clever giants may exist in his race. Just a thought of course.

[Voodzik]

@Ubiq:

I don't know about the Devil Fruit, but this was largely what I was thinking myself.

Ah, but where does it say that Mariejoa existed prior to the destruction of the Unknown Country as Clover exclusively referred to the [paraphrased] "nations that would become the World Government"? Who's to say that Mariejoa wasn't chosen as the center of the new World Government for the fact that it was centrally located and relatively intact after the realignment of the world?

Of course, it may have existed prior to the destruction and "miraculously" survived, which could be responsible for the designation of Mariejoa as a Holy Land.

That would make a lot of sense.

Of course we're theorizing here on the assumption that we know what all of the craziness is. The story is probably a lot more complicated than we're making it out to be.

I think that the fall of the ancient kingdom is likely to be a flashback so long it'll count as a story arc in and of itself….like a Water 7 type one.

[warp]

that would be sweet but wasnt the islands name….raftel? I'm not sure. I dont think it was.

[Yoska]

@Voodzik:

The story is probably a lot more complicated than we're making it out to be.

I think quite opposite. The story could end up being far more simpler than what we're making it out to be but that's not meaning it wouldn't be good or rational. It's just what I try to generally ably everywhere - simple is beautiful - and so is a simpler explanation.

[Kuzan]

Uh, I just came up with this… by the Stephen's script of 395, Clover says:

"we have learned of the existence of a nation... One which no longer exists in any form,
but still appears in those messages.
An ENORMOUS KINGDOM...!!"

Maybe all the islands in the grand line were part of a great continent, an enormous kingdom, and it got divided into pieces somehow in a great battle or cataclysm. After that, when it no longer existed, the people that knew of this called this old kingdom "One piece", since in the ancient times all the islands in the grand line were in one piece. This would also explain why the magnetic fields of the islands are all strong and related. Though it is difficult to geologically justify this because islands are just prominent accidents from the deepness of the sea that reach the surface... Shikashi, now that I think of it... hm, it looks like a lot of islands in the grand line have a cliff in the shore, this could be related. The only beach I can remember right now (in the grand line) was in the Skypiea arc. Does anyone else remember a beach? Because if an island is natural it should have some beachs, but if it is a piece of another island that is just thrown into the sea and the island we see is the part above the surface of the sea, then it makes sense that we see so many cliffs. Oh well, I just remembered W7 had kind of "beachs" when the sea receeded... So just forget this last point.

[Bounty1Berry]

The magnetism doesn't quite make sense IMO.

If it was a single continent broken into parts, you'd either have a uniform magnetic field (no need for Logging) or the broken parts would drift apart so that they no longer pointed to each other accurately.

If there was a massive "fracture" of a single island, you'd also see more evidence… signs of roads which run off the edge of islands (which weren't edges in the past), shifts in economic patterns caused by the changes in trade routes, probably species unique to formerly-adjacent areas split across great distances.

The Grand Line's islands could be well explained by a "hot spot" in Odaworld's mantle, like what's creating the Hawaiian islands. The further you get along the chain, the newer the islands, and Raftel may have just been formed (geologically-time speaking) Volcanism increases near the hot spot, so it grows more dangerous as you penetrate the chain.

Perhaps it's a combination of the two: a massive weapon which causes a seismic backlash, creating some or all of the Grand Line islands.

[Kuzan]

@Bounty1Berry:

The magnetism doesn't quite make sense IMO.

If it was a single continent broken into parts, you'd either have a uniform magnetic field (no need for Logging) or the broken parts would drift apart so that they no longer pointed to each other accurately.

Ever broke a magnet?

If you break a magnet into pieces every new piece creates new polarities. You wouldn't have a unified field but a mayhem of different fields. Of course this phenomenon doesn't translate so wildly into geology but it could perfectly be what Oda has in mind, he's a mangaka, not a scientist after all.

[Greg]

Maybe all the islands in the grand line were part of a great continent, an enormous kingdom, and it got divided into pieces somehow in a great battle or cataclysm.

That's what we've been saying actually.

Depending on what the weapon is and how it operates it could make perfect sense that the GL was created by something on a massive level, even consider the Calm Belt to be "scar" marks on the edges. Wouldn't it have made a good deal of sense if the old world was something like a giant X? Perfect for a pirate series. Given the chemical properties of the device it could even account for the DFs.

It all sounds very good on paper but at this stage for all we know Oda could want us to think that. It's ultimately a waiting game.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Kuzan:

Ever broke a magnet?

[qimg]http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/4751/brokenmagnet4nv.png[/qimg]

If you break a magnet into pieces every new piece creates new polarities. You wouldn't have a unified field but a mayhem of different fields. Of course this phenomenon doesn't translate so wildly into geology but it could perfectly be what Oda has in mind, he's a mangaka, not a scientist after all.

Wow, that's pretty cool. I'm not sure if Oda had such an idea in mind when he first concieved of the unique island magnetic fields, but this would make for a good explanation.

[Bounty1Berry]

@Kuzan:

Ever broke a magnet?

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/4751/brokenmagnet4nv.png

If you break a magnet into pieces every new piece creates new polarities. You wouldn't have a unified field but a mayhem of different fields. Of course this phenomenon doesn't translate so wildly into geology but it could perfectly be what Oda has in mind, he's a mangaka, not a scientist after all.

I understand what you're showing, but I meant that the parts would still be aligned in the same general direction. IOW, you'd be able to follow the magnetic field at any of the former continent parts and they'd all point the same way. We'd need to explain not just the destruction but the REARRANGEMENT of the continents, to get to the GL's weird fields.

[Darkariel]

@Kuzan:

Uh, I just came up with this… by the Stephen's script of 395, Clover says:

"we have learned of the existence of a nation... One which no longer exists in any form,
but still appears in those messages.
An ENORMOUS KINGDOM...!!"

Maybe all the islands in the grand line were part of a great continent, an enormous kingdom, and it got divided into pieces somehow in a great battle or cataclysm. After that, when it no longer existed, the people that knew of this called this old kingdom "One piece", since in the ancient times all the islands in the grand line were in one piece. This would also explain why the magnetic fields of the islands are all strong and related. Though it is difficult to geologically justify this because islands are just prominent accidents from the deepness of the sea that reach the surface... Shikashi, now that I think of it... hm, it looks like a lot of islands in the grand line have a cliff in the shore, this could be related. The only beach I can remember right now (in the grand line) was in the Skypiea arc. Does anyone else remember a beach? Because if an island is natural it should have some beachs, but if it is a piece of another island that is just thrown into the sea and the island we see is the part above the surface of the sea, then it makes sense that we see so many cliffs. Oh well, I just remembered W7 had kind of "beachs" when the sea receeded... So just forget this last point.

This is actually a good theory except the part of the One Piece

The rest about the islands of Grand Line being one huge Kingdom would make sense and also the destruction could explain the terrible power of the ancient weapons (maybe the ones that broke the kingdom in small island)

This also would make a possiblity to explain the weather in the various island by science (what was the name of that theory? Damn I can't remember)

[Kuzan]

@Darkariel:

This is actually a good theory except the part of the One Piece

Ellaboration? I also thought for a momment that maybe One piece could be the power to unify everything in one piece again… literally or methaphorically.

Gaimon: And you'll find great friends!!
You'll find the One Piece,
and then you'll buy the world!!

if that buy = have in the original version, could this be foreshadowing?

@Darkariel:

This also would make a possiblity to explain the weather in the various island by science (what was the name of that theory? Damn I can't remember)

Actually, this was already confirmed in the manga, I think.

Stephen's translation of 115:

Vivi: Well, it's not as if it nevers snows here, but that first stretch of ocean is special. The 7 magnetic fields that extend forth from Reverse Mountain scramble everything up. So don't let your guards down. It's rare to have any trips as violent as that first one, but remember that normally, this is still more difficult to cross than any normal sea. The golden rule here is: don't take the sea too lightly!!

[Kazu-kun]

@Darkariel:

This is actually a good theory except the part of the One Piece

The rest about the islands of Grand Line being one huge Kingdom would make sense and also the destruction could explain the terrible power of the ancient weapons (maybe the ones that broke the kingdom in small island)

This also would make a possiblity to explain the weather in the various island by science (what was the name of that theory? Damn I can't remember)

Wait isnt the reason why the weather varies on each different islands due to the magnetic feilds each individual island produces, causing different conditions?

This is physics of one piece or something isn't it?

[Ivotas]

@Kuzan:

Uh, I just came up with this… by the Stephen's script of 395, Clover says:

"we have learned of the existence of a nation... One which no longer exists in any form,
but still appears in those messages.
An ENORMOUS KINGDOM...!!"

Maybe all the islands in the grand line were part of a great continent, an enormous kingdom, and it got divided into pieces somehow in a great battle or cataclysm. After that, when it no longer existed, the people that knew of this called this old kingdom "One piece", since in the ancient times all the islands in the grand line were in one piece. This would also explain why the magnetic fields of the islands are all strong and related. Though it is difficult to geologically justify this because islands are just prominent accidents from the deepness of the sea that reach the surface... Shikashi, now that I think of it... hm, it looks like a lot of islands in the grand line have a cliff in the shore, this could be related. The only beach I can remember right now (in the grand line) was in the Skypiea arc. Does anyone else remember a beach? Because if an island is natural it should have some beachs, but if it is a piece of another island that is just thrown into the sea and the island we see is the part above the surface of the sea, then it makes sense that we see so many cliffs. Oh well, I just remembered W7 had kind of "beachs" when the sea receeded... So just forget this last point.

That´s a good theory. I mean how does everyone know that the Ancient Weapons posses the power to destroy the world if there was never an example of their power? Before any real damage is done people never make a big fuzz about it (well maybe only scientists) but others always think that destructive weapons are overrated until they see what they can do with their own eyes.

And I don´t think that it is too far of that this example of the AC´s destructive power could really be that a continent that resembled the Red Line got formed into what makes the Grand Line now. It is a possibility.

[Kuzan]

@Bounty1Berry:

I understand what you're showing, but I meant that the parts would still be aligned in the same general direction. IOW, you'd be able to follow the magnetic field at any of the former continent parts and they'd all point the same way. We'd need to explain not just the destruction but the REARRANGEMENT of the continents, to get to the GL's weird fields.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I've always thought on this matter… AFAIK, there's not such thing as a magnetic field that points in OP. Logs can only point at one magnetic field at a time (actually the pose is not pointing to a magnetic field, the partially magnetized needle is just orienting itself alongside the magnetic field that it is affected by, from - to +), then you use that magnetic association as a reference to go to the next island. For example, if you know that Little Garden is to the west of Whisky Peak and you get a pose that points to WP, then to go from WP to LG you just start navigating west and make sure that your pose is always pointing to the back of your ship. In other words, you could go anywhere in the grand line if you have a map and determine the direction you have to follow and never change the direction, the problem is that without a pose it is hard to tell if you have changed direction. Also, you can't use a pose as an static reference for any island because if you get too far away the magnetic attraction between the pose and the island will be too low to move the needle or it will associate with another island if you wait enough time. There is a flaw in all this and it is that if you have a map and three eternal poses of different islands then you can triangulate your position at any time but let's not spoil a wonderful plot device.

[loulou]

I really like the Grandline islands= broken continent theory, and it makes me wonder if All Blue fits into all this somehow…

[Malintex_Terek]

@loulou:

I really like the Grandline islands= broken continent theory, and it makes me wonder if All Blue fits into all this somehow…

If we follow Omae's description of the original line continent forming the shape of an "X", the four seas at each of the ocean intervals surrounding the junction of the lines would have seperate fishies from each Blue. When the continent was destroyed, those fishies need only swim a short way to form "All Blue".

The question is how the "X" was formed on the planet. We've no idea how thick the "X" continent is, so Red Line could simply be a portion of say the western landmass. I would need a full map of all the blues to shape something reasonable.

Regardless, though; this is really interesting.

[Voodzik]

@loulou:

I really like the Grandline islands= broken continent theory, and it makes me wonder if All Blue fits into all this somehow…

Maybe All Blue is at the exact point of impact (or whatever,) where all four seas rushed in at once to fill the gaping crater left by a combat scar from Pluton or Posiedon.

[joekido the Second]

It would make a lot of sense if the Grand Line was a huge contitant but the ancient weapeon destoryed it into millions of islands and the Grand Line became a strange messed up sea line due to the affects of the ancient weapons. Giants, winged people, sky people, merman and monkey people are scattered across the Grand Line.

[Bounty1Berry]

@Kuzan:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I've always thought on this matter… AFAIK, there's not such thing as a magnetic field that points in OP. Logs can only point at one magnetic field at a time (actually the pose is not pointing to a magnetic field, the partially magnetized needle is just orienting itself alongside the magnetic field that it is affected by, from - to +), then you use that magnetic association as a reference to go to the next island.

:nod: I agree on that point. My question is why don't all the fields now point in the same direction as the original mass did. We've only BROKEN a continent, we haven't rearranged it, so like your diagram of the magnet, each small part will point a needle the same direction.

In other words, you could go anywhere in the grand line if you have a map and determine the direction you have to follow and never change the direction, the problem is that without a pose it is hard to tell if you have changed direction.

Navigate by the stars or the sunrise/sunset. Remember the sun rises in the east, for example.

I think the pose is rather a substitute for a MAP. Rather than mapping "Little Garden is 55km west of Whiskey Peak", they just grab a little arrow that points towards Little Garden. I'd guess this might be from some difficulty in assembling reliable maps of the area; maybe the space between the Seven Routes is dangerous.

[Kuzan]

@Voodzik:

Maybe All Blue is at the exact point of impact (or whatever,) where all four seas rushed in at once to fill the gaping crater left by a combat scar from Pluton or Posiedon.

I think so. And I got the feeling that maybe all blue is in the grand line and under the red line. We have had an always-day location (EL), what about an always-night location? That would be a giant cave (or cave system) crossing the redline from one grand line segment to the other, just in the center of the X. The problem is, I'm not sure all species of fish can remain the same in a dark sea so maybe that place would be open on the "ceiling" in same places, dunno.

And following on the idea of the shores, I've looked up the GL islands so far and no one has beachs, they are all "cliffy". The beachs at W7 weren't really beachs now that I think it better. I think it means something and it's related to the continent breaking because Oda usually draws beachs out of the grand line islands. From the top of my mind Usopp's island, Ohara, and Skypiea cloud island had beachs.

[Kuzan]

@Bounty1Berry:

:nod: I agree on that point. My question is why don't all the fields now point in the same direction as the original mass did. We've only BROKEN a continent, we haven't rearranged it, so like your diagram of the magnet, each small part will point a needle the same direction.

See below for an explanation of why I don't think they just "point". Also, have you considered that maybe they were blown in the air and rotated before falling?

@Bounty1Berry:

Navigate by the stars or the sunrise/sunset. Remember the sun rises in the east, for example.

The sun just gives you one coordinate, remember that you need two to know your position. It would only be useful if your route is exactly the sun path cause you just can't measure your distance to the sun from only one point.
BTW there's freaking sun/moon/stars in OP?

@Bounty1Berry:

I think the pose is rather a substitute for a MAP. Rather than mapping "Little Garden is 55km west of Whiskey Peak", they just grab a little arrow that points towards Little Garden. I'd guess this might be from some difficulty in assembling reliable maps of the area; maybe the space between the Seven Routes is dangerous.

I think that the reason that you can't change between routes is because the distance that separates one route from the other is too far for a log pose to follow the magnetic field that it has grabbed. Also I think that when you travel from WP to LG your pose points to WP, though it is simplified sometimes and it looks like the inverse. Definition of an eternal pose:

Igaram: Hm? Are you unfamiliar with it? It's a perpetually preserved version of a "Log Pose". Instead of being calibrated to each island individually like a "Log Pose"…

Igaram: It never forgets the magnetic location of the one location it is set to. In other words, this "Eternal Pose" will eternally point the way to the island it marks. And this is one set to Alabasta.

So if an eternal pose is just a preserved version of a log pose and it points to the island it was set to, it would seem that a log pose points to the island it is set to. So if you wait a year in LG it will point to LG, and you will use it as a navigational reference (yeah, probably luffy couldn't use a log pose). Anyway this appears to have been simplified at some points in the anime and maybe in the manga so I don't know what to think. It could be that when you wait in WP, you are indeed setting your log to LG but then you couldn't go backwards and it would be partially useless; not everybody can afford to go to raftel just to go from LG to WP, y'know? So I think it's as I told you.

---

EDIT: I just remembered, there is proof to this. When they navigated under skypiea by chance and the log got set up to skypiea, it pointed to skypea (remember the log pose pointing upwards?). And they said it got set to skypiea cause nami warned the crew that they couldn't stay much time in Jaya because otherwise the log would set to jaya and forget the association to skypiea. So the logs point where they are set up to. So you can't talk of "pointing direction of the original mass". There are just individual magnets (islands) everywhere that can attract the magnetized part of your needle. In the ancient times the continent would be only one magnet that, btw, could be big enough to attract poses all over the earth, in other words: a freaking north pole, woohoo.

[Bounty1Berry]

@Kuzan:

See below for an explanation of why I don't think they just "point". Also, have you considered that maybe they were blown in the air and rotated before falling?

That's a bit unlikely. It explains the magnetism nicely, but you'd need to rip the islands from the sea-bed to get them to stay above water when they landed… and that would involve all sorts of weirdness.

The sun just gives you one coordinate, remember that you need two to know your position. It would only be useful if your route is exactly the sun path cause you just can't measure your distance to the sun from only one point.

I merely meant to use the sun to determine east and west (assuming that in the OP world, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west). You can find other directions from it.

[Porter]

@Kuzan:

EDIT: I just remembered, there is proof to this. When they navigated under skypiea by chance and the log got set up to skypiea, it pointed to skypea (remember the log pose pointing upwards?). And they said it got set to skypiea cause nami warned the crew that they couldn't stay much time in Jaya because otherwise the log would set to jaya and forget the association to skypiea. So the logs point where they are set up to.

Um, I think when they were on Arabasta the log-pose set up to Skypiea (the Upper-Yard I guess).
With the eternal-pose, that points to Jaya, they can get to Jaya, but if they stay there too long, the log-pose will lose the association to Skypiea, because it will point to the island that comes after Jaya, not Jaya itself.

[Ubiq]

@Kuzan:

I think so. And I got the feeling that maybe all blue is in the grand line and under the red line.

I'm rather fond of that theory myself.

[Kuzan]

@Porter:

Um, I think when they were on Arabasta the log-pose set up to Skypiea (the Upper-Yard I guess).
With the eternal-pose, that points to Jaya, they can get to Jaya, but if they stay there too long, the log-pose will lose the association to Skypiea, because it will point to the island that comes after Jaya, not Jaya itself.

Not true. Chapter 218. Robin reveals herself on board of the merry:

Robin: By the way, navigator… is the Log Pose alright?
Nami: Yes, Miss Robin! Straight to west-northwest!

Then, right in the same scene, after some things fall off the sky, this happens:

Nami: AH!!!
Sanji: What is it, Nami-san?!!
Nami: What are we going to do?! The "Log Pose" is...!!! BROKEN!! It's pointing straight up and won't move...!!!
Robin: ...that's not it. ...an island with a much stronger magnetic power is changing it to a new "log"...!! ...if it's pointing up to the sky...
Nami: What...?
Robin: THE "LOG" HAS BEEN STOLEN BY A "SKY ISLAND"...!!!

:ninja:

[Kuzan]

@Bounty1Berry:

That's a bit unlikely. It explains the magnetism nicely, but you'd need to rip the islands from the sea-bed to get them to stay above water when they landed… and that would involve all sorts of weirdness.

I don't think you need to have them blown on the air anyway cause I don't think the individual masses make the log point to others, just that they do the log point to theirselves, (see my last post for proof in the skypiea case).

@Bounty1Berry:

I merely meant to use the sun to determine east and west (assuming that in the OP world, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west). You can find other directions from it.

Oh, I see. But anyway a direction is hardly useful unless the islands are perfectly alineated. I think that is the reason why there are no stars in OP.

[Porter]

@Kuzan:

Not true. Chapter 218. Robin reveals herself on board of the merry:

Robin: By the way, navigator… is the Log Pose alright?
Nami: Yes, Miss Robin! Straight to west-northwest!

Then, right in the same scene, after some things fall off the sky, this happens:

Nami: AH!!!
Sanji: What is it, Nami-san?!!
Nami: What are we going to do?! The "Log Pose" is...!!! BROKEN!! It's pointing straight up and won't move...!!!
Robin: ...that's not it. ...an island with a much stronger magnetic power is changing it to a new "log"...!! ...if it's pointing up to the sky...
Nami: What...?
Robin: THE "LOG" HAS BEEN STOLEN BY A "SKY ISLAND"...!!!

:ninja:

Ah yeah, I remember that scene.
Hmm, it appears it changed it's target quiet fast. Skypiea seems to be an exception. On Little Garden it would take a year to get the next island's position and here it changes in an instant while on the sea… :blink:

[Kuzan]

@Porter:

Ah yeah, I remember that scene.
Hmm, it appears it changed it's target quiet fast. Skypiea seems to be an exception. On Little Garden it would take a year to get the next island's position and here it changes in an instant while on the sea… :blink:

An exception? If Robin was so sure that the log was being stolen by an island in the sky then it must mean that the mechanism is fixed for all the masses, otherwise she wouldn't have dared to mention something so weird as an island in the sky.

And too fast? Not at all. In LG it takes 1 year, in other islands it takes like 3 days, that's 121 times shorter. If we take 3 days like an average then the log under skypiea could set in 30 minutes which is a change in the same order of magnitude.

Maximum time -> 3 days X 120 = 1 year
Average time -> 3 days
Minimum time -> 3 days / 120 = 30 minutes

You may wonder why follow a geometric scale and not an arithmetic scale… but remember kids: magnetic attraction decreases with the square of the distance... that is, geometrically.

Also if you want a particular explanation for the skypiea case, the minerals that create the field in an island are under the surface, so upper yard minerals where "exposed" and right above the ship, it makes sense that the field is stronger and the log sets in a record time.