@ysn:
Which is basically what annoys me…It's pointless, i agree.
I don't know if this was your intention, but you're making it sound like you think all the fault lies at the foot of Ivotas. It doesn't.
@ysn:
When a martial artist grabs a knife he doesn't get any weaker, he just adds a knife to his arsenal.
Actually, the show has already provided proof that this isn't always true. Look at Luffy in Arlong Park. Flailing randomly with an unfamiliar weapon weakens you, and makes you as dangerous to yourself as anyone else.
@ysn:
When a swordsman fights without his swords he is severely weakened.
As above, not always true. It depends on how competent the swordsmen is.
@ysn:
Sanji's use of knifes is because his style failed him, not because he improved it.
Again, I have to disagree. Sanji fought with his knives not because his style failed him, but because using the knives was an easier path to victory, that fell within his rules. If it hadn't been food he was fighting against, but instead cloud string or something, he'd have found another path to victory.
@ysn:
Zoro's swordless technique was a significant improvement on his overall battle potential and a great addition to his battle arsenal.
How?
Single punches against skyfish when he couldn't use his swords since there was no room to swing? I don't think so. That one time he did a no sword technique? How? It was the same technique, he just didn't have a sword in his hand, and it was weaker than his normal version of it.
Big whoop.
@ysn:
Furthermore, Sanji's use of knifes was allowed by the specific situation, his style and ability is not modified in any way.
I thought you said it was because his normal style wasn't up to the task?
His style and ability isn't modified, but that doesn't matter, it shows that he has other strengths to fall back on, in the right situation, that he hadn't shown, and we didn't know about till that point in time.
@ysn:
Zoro can use this sworless ability when and whereever he deems it necessary, it is an integtral part of his abilities.
Just because he can use it whenever he wants doesn't mean it'll actually do anything to enemies when he uses it. Furthermore, how is it integral to his abilities?
If it was integral he'd be doing it constantly, it'd be you know…integral. He doesn't. It was a once off, and it was only because of special circumstances.
@ysn:
You can see in the Kuro fight how he is overwhelmed when using just one sword. Later on he's able to cut train wagons in half with this one sword. It shows that he has overcome a great weakness in his technical abilities and that he can be very strong even without all three swords.
Poppycock.
All that illustrates is that he's better with 3 swords than with 1. And he still is. Whats changed except the relative strength, and how is this any differant than Sanji becoming better at single and double leg techniques?
@ysn:
My point was that Sanji has not done anything similar and this has nothing to do with him growing more legs, etc.
Besides becoming a stronger fighter with both single and two leg techniques you mean? Just like Zoro became stronger at single, double and triple sword techniques.
Shocking :huh:
@ysn:
Perhaps. But then again, we don't know. We can't speculate on could or shoulds. Going with what the manga has shown Sanji doesn't have such trick.
Ok, something more substantial?
Going on the manga we know for a fact every member of the crew always has something hidden up their sleeves, sometimes something small (Concasse, Gomu Gomu no Pinwheel/Firework etc.), and sometimes something big (108 Pound cannon etc.).
Combine this with the fact that, like has already been stated several times, and you've admitted is true (I think), that Zoro only really trains strength wise outside combat, and the same as Luffy, Sanji etc. and there's plausability for anyone of them holding something back.
Who's to say what Zoro is hiding isn't small, and Sanji's big at the moment? In the case of the unknown you have to measure both cases as being identically big or small, but this still leaves only a small gap to my mind in relative stregth between Zoro and Sanji.
@ysn:
Furthermore, if i understand correctly the mental block you mention is his inability to fight women.
Correct.
@ysn:
If this is the case and he does overcome it, then that means that he will be able to use all his strenght against women, not that he will get any stronger overall. There is a difference.
Not in his physical strenght there isn't. In terms of mental strength, its a huge leap forward.
Like you, and everyone else in this topic has already admitted a fighters strength isn't just his skill alone, mental strength being one of those things less important than skill, but still important.
@ysn:
lol, I never claimed to be unbiased.
Sorry, it wasn't aimed at you specifically, but at whoever said that he wasn't biased a while back. Can't remember who it was, so I just threw it in randomly.
@ysn:
Did I say just how much I abhore writing such long posts with XX number of quotes inside…it's so timeconsuming and bothersome, please show some simpathy for a lazy person....
Sorry. Can't stand seeing it done any other way personally, always looks so messy and it bugs the crap out of me :sad:
Now, I know none of this is really your point. From what I gather your point is that you think Zoro has advanced more as a fighter than Sanji has, has devised greater techniques, has gotten physically stronger, and over come more hurdles, and is thus the stronger of the two.
To counter this, I have to say that I think Sanji was the stronger of the two when they both fight together for the first time in Arlong Park (partially due to Zoro's wound from Mihawk), and Zoro had further to advance. And that Zoro has only marginally surpassed Sanji all told. Due to the nature of the show, and the genre, Zoro will more than likely always seem more powerful than Sanji to the casual viewer (and to anyone but Sanji fans really), and Luffy than Zoro etc.
But the differance will never, ever be significant no matter how differing the styles, or how much one seems to advance over the other.
Edit: Sorry for the lenght Ysn. At the least, all you'll really want to reply to is the last 3 or 4 paragraphs, so its not to bad really :)