spandain is the yellow monkey now XDXD
so I guess kuzan knows the truth but he still said "his way of justice"
Chapter 397 "To Reach the Future" Discussion
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I mean if Kuzan and Sakazuki could get promoted, why not him?
yes but if he were to get promoted, what position would it be?
CP9 is most likely reguarded as one of the most promising positions to hold (to those who know of it anyway) and I doubt the Gorousei would give him a promotion to a position where he would have to fight by himself, due to the fact he is clearly a coward who is scared to be in a situation where he has a chance of dying.
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first off - I looked at the raw and was like ok, I don't get a single thing that was said (Jap) but after the translation by ooshi (thank you so much) I was moved to tears…its so damn sad!!! No wonder Robin's so afraid of Aokiji (BAST*RD)
Super cool but tragic story line in Robin's past...
As for Spandain, I think that after the ohara incident, I guess its either explained in the next chapter or like what Ivotas said, a promotion then suggested Spandam for a post in Cipher Pol and worked his way up. OR...Spandam betrayed Spandain to get his post (I think this is a more befitting way to end his career)
WHAT??? :ohmy: Nothing's worth this much troubleXD
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I seriously don´t see that raising any questions. I mean this was a very important mission he just accomplished just as his superiors expected him to do so. And 20 years have passed ever since. Wouldn´t it be a bit out of place if he after all those years would get a promotion?
I mean if Kuzan and Sakazuki could get promoted, why not him?
Hmmm… does anyone else think Kizeru's silhouette looks a bit like Spandine?
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav-2/onepiecechapter319.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1391
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I mean if Kuzan and Sakazuki could get promoted, why not him?
I remember (maybe it was you or someone else) that it's unthinkable for someone from a spy group to be promoted in the naval system. Something that you can only get promoted within the organization you're in. An example of this thing that's unreasonable is a CIA agent becoming a general. In any case, Spandain's at the top of the cipher pols, unless there's something higher…
Edit: the silhouette's? I think that Kizeru's hair is straighter than Spandain's.
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@yokaiforte:
I remember (maybe it was you or someone else) that it's unthinkable for someone from a spy group to be promoted in the naval system. Something that you can only get promoted within the organization you're in. An example of this thing that's unreasonable is a CIA agent becoming a general. In any case, Spandain's at the top of the cipher pols, unless there's something higher…
George Bush Sr was the director of the CIA before he became president, who I believe is the commander in chief of the military.
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Yes, the difference being that to become the commander in chief, you have to be president. As far as politicians are concerned, I don't think that they have military positions before being elected.
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Kuzan: I canâ€
t leave that alone…..!!! like those punks who use this translation for scanlations.That one quote just made my day. Thanks for the translation btw.
@Bad-Beat:
yes but if he were to get promoted, what position would it be?
What do I know? But there surely must be some positions in between the highest authority of the World Government (Gorousei) and the director of one Cipher Pol. How about being the supreme director of all the Cipher Pols if there is such a thing?
CP9 is most likely reguarded as one of the most promising positions to hold (to those who know of it anyway) and I doubt the Gorousei would give him a promotion to a position where he would have to fight by himself, due to the fact he is clearly a coward who is scared to be in a situation where he has a chance of dying.
Actually he already has the position where he can fight for himself. I don´t think that there´s any laws that say the director of CP9 has to be a weak coward. It just happens to be that the only two guys in this position we met are exactly that, but it isn´t a required must. I mean if he can direct CP9, why not propote him to a superior position where he command even more or stronger people? After all, he accomplished his mission so he should have earned the faith by his superiors.
George Bush Sr was the director of the CIA before he became president, who I believe is the commander in chief of the military.
Bad example. Serving your country by going to military does at no point determine what your future will look like after you served your time and decide to leave again.
After the military you can aim for anything you want to, you can work in a super market, be a banker, be a rockstar or get into politics but you don´t get promoted in anything of it just because you went to the army
And in the One Piece example it is even the other way around. Why should a government director be promoted to a high ranked military officer? You have to be part of the military system yourself in order to make your way to the top. Or do you think that successful CIA agents can get promomet to be Generals in the US Army?
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But, if he was promoted to admiral, I just don't see him looking like Kizeru. And if he was up for a promotion, I doubt that Vice Admiral would be such a good position for directing things for Spandain.
Avatar provided by Ferntree on DeviantArt.
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Huh, did you respond to me? I said that there is zero chance that a government official can be promoted to one of the highest ranks in the military. :huh:
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Whoops, sorry about the confusion. -_- I was just refering to Master Dee about even if it were possible for such, which it isn't.
But, why would there be a Cipher pol leader? shouldn't the highest CP9 leader be allowed power over the other segments of the Cipher Pol?
Avatar provided by Ferntree on DeviantArt.
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And in the One Piece example it is even the other way around. Why should a government director be promoted to a high ranked military officer? You have to be part of the military system yourself in order to make your way to the top. Or do you think that successful CIA agents can get promomet to be Generals in the US Army?
It wouldn't be an impossibility for someone not within the naval system to become a high ranking naval officer if the Five Elders (and not Sengoku) are the ones responsible for appointing admirals (similar to how the US President is responsible for appointing generals). If they have this power they can pretty much appoint anyone as admiral if they believe this would serve their purposes somehow - and unlike the US President they wouldn't have to worry about opinion polls and getting re-elected.
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@yokaiforte:
Whoops, sorry about the confusion. -_- I was just refering to Master Dee about even if it were possible for such, which it isn't.
But, why would there be a Cipher pol leader? shouldn't the highest CP9 leader be allowed power over the other segments of the Cipher Pol?
Well you can be very strong but not have the knowledge of how to use your power to achieve your goal. CP9 were in Water Seven to find the blueprints for Pluton, without the knowledge that Spandam gave them they wouldn't know to look for Tom's workers and stuff.
It's like a football team. The players know how to play the game but without a manager and coach to instruct them on tactics and stuff. You won't be able to play at your best or know how to attack and defend against your opponents.
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I like this chapter. Mayby it's time for me to update the Enies Lobby situation which I had not touch for an long time.
Well, we should have one more chapter explianing what Robin do after the Ohara incident onward to the future. We should be able to find out what happened to Spandine and why Aokiji gave Spandam authority to use the Buster Call
And Aokiji is right, your not suppose to use justice for an cruel reason, this attiude may explian why he did he gave Spandam the authority. One thing, if he says justice should not be use for a cruel reason, why did he try to kill Robin 20 years later? If he had killed her, then what would support his reason to give Spandam the authority?
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/me is sobbing
poor poor Nico Robin this is so sad… awesome chapter. AoKiji is a weird fellow...
thanks all for the translation (specially ooshi78 XD) Also i believe AoKiji attack is name Ice Partizan(a kind of spear)
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An apology to Ivotas.
Well, after doing some research, I learn that the CIA director reports directly to the Director of National Intelligence. So, in basic, Spandain could probably be promoted to something like that. I should do more research into these things before opening my mouth.:mellow:
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THE BEST FLASHBACK IN ALL ONE PIECE!
The final image, ohara burning, is totally insane. -
I wonder what Akainu looks like 20 years later…And another thing that we can compare in the "D" Family is that they all smile in the face of death...now that is truly badass.
Oda must cry to himself when he makes this stuff...it's truly great...
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-Must see more of Akainu and what's up with him.
-Yayness! Back to CP9!
…but we know little to nothing of Luffy's history other than what was shown obviously.
Tis the epitome of an "epic hero", no?
Sorry, I'm actually learning something in Literature, and more and more I realize why I like One Piece now… it's a freakin' epic!! XD
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Like somebody mentioned, I hope the flashback continues so we can see Robin join her first crew. See what Aokiji/Kuzan meant (if you get what I mean. I'm sure I know what he literally meant, but how it's proven. can't explain it that well).
Now, I can only hope Oda avoids real tragedy and doesn't bring back Tom, Sauro, and the Ohara people from Impel Down.
That's what I was thinking. I mean, didn't the White Beret leader (forgot his name) say that God's militia was killed off by Eneru? Near the end, they were still alive (wait, am I right about this? 70% sure… don't wanna spew too much crap if I'm completely wrong ^^; ).
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Sorry, I'm actually learning something in Literature, and more and more I realize why I like One Piece now… it's a freakin' epic!! XD
XD It's as if Virgil, Homer, Dante and Socrates just joined together to form one man (Oda) and thought up all of this. No wonder its called "One Piece".
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Hey guys, check out the scanlation I did over at the OP MSN group.
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you didnt steal translations did you evilglare
_ Originally Posted by mr.allsunday
Nice job jumping on the bandwagon there Aethos, I can only wish I was as cool as you_
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you didnt steal translations did you evilglare
I did a quick check, and it doesn't appear that way.
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I see and for your first scan its pretty good. I shall read it
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Sauro being frozen by Aokiji .. does protect him from those raging flames we see in the last page doesnt it? (Seeing how Robin and Luffy could be saved after suffering the same Aokiji attack)
Hmm I wonder if Aokiji would let him escape too the same way he let Robin off
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…ç_ç ..... I'm sorry, I just had to come and say what everyone else said... T__T.... Dereshishishishi sob Really, really sad... ç-ç....
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damn what a sad chapter
NOW i can understand why robin is acting the way she did when luffy is trying to save her… damn
SAURO is the BEST FLASHBACK character ever... sob.. T_T
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Sauro being frozen by Aokiji .. does protect him from those raging flames we see in the last page doesnt it? (Seeing how Robin and Luffy could be saved after suffering the same Aokiji attack)
Hmm I wonder if Aokiji would let him escape too the same way he let Robin off
Actually Chopper does say that adding heat too fast would crack them up.
With the amount of heat generated in Ohara, Sauro would have melted.
As bad as it sounds, Sauro did die and Aokiji did kill him.
His death was beautifully done though.
Oda = God
Three letters for both.
Co-incidence? I think not. -
spandain is the yellow monkey now XDXD
so I guess kuzan knows the truth but he still said "his way of justice"
You know this isn't as far fetched as it sounds…I can SO see Spandain with a Monkey zoan.
Also, it would mean all three future admirals were involved in Ohara, which sounds very Oda.
Note that Oda is now an adjective for a kind of story, not just a name:steve: :party:
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You have to remember that Clover and the others aren´t no diabolic super power fighting monsters, but archeologists. That alone should make people ask questions, but the propaganda that spreads the words that they are demons can equally be spread about the rest of Ohara too.
The revelation that they were tampering with forbidden knowledge easily explains the "fact" that they are far more dangerous than they appear to the untrained eye. In a world like Oda's (Odaverse? Oda Gekai?), there are so many wonders in the world, that people shouldn't have too much trouble believing whatever lies the World Government throws at them.
It's harder to sell that about the normal people, though they might simply respond that they were privy to the same information.
People aren´t running around screaming "no way such an innocent child could be like that".
It's easy to do that with Robin though; she's a Devil Fruit user, she is an archaelogist studying information about warmachines that nearly destroyed the World, and she escaped the awesome power of an entire fleet of battleships.
"Now if an 8 year old girl can do that to a Marine HQ fleet, imagine what the all the Demons of Ohara could do to the entire world."
That's a possibility; we'll just have to wait until the next chapter to see if Oda explains either way.
With such an explenation the world wouldn´t be even bothere that maybe kids died back then.
Oh, some people will still be, but many will be mollified. People already in a position where they don't trust the World Government will easily see through this, pirates especially, but many won't, especially if the World Government does something to change public discussion to something else entirely.
I still think it's easier to place the blame on Robin that it is to suggest that your own troops did it though.
Ah now I get it. Well, I think that Akainu doesn´t have to say much about it anyway. I just see him as a good soldier.
That's exactly the point, he's willing to do pretty much whatever it takes to get the job done. So it's not like he'd have qualms about killing the Shichibukai by sheer mass regardless of the losses inflicted on his own people if his superiors thought that it would be cost effective to do so.
What do I know? But there surely must be some positions in between the highest authority of the World Government (Gorousei) and the director of one Cipher Pol.
See, this is exactly the reason that I wish Oda would release a World Government hierarchy like he did for the Navy: to answer questions like this and others like, does Sengoku have a civilian boss that reports to the Gorosei or does he do so directly or is the Judiciary part of the Navy itself or seperate?
How about being the supreme director of all the Cipher Pols if there is such a thing?
Isn't that Spandam though? The home base of the Cipher Pols appears to be Enies Lobby and he is head of that facility as well as a member of the highest ranking Cipher Pol cell.
Of course, Spandain may well be in a position that controls the Cipher Pols as well as any other intelligence assets the World Government might possess.
Complicating things since 2009.
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Don't have the energy to pick out the one line I wanna respond to in Ubiq's post, let it simply be known I wholeheartedly believe that we should all call the OP world the "Odaverse" from now on.
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I think it's pretty much guaranteed that everyone else on Ohara is DEAD.
the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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Hey guys, check out the scanlation I did over at the OP MSN group.
Wow, really good IMO. Though my opinion in such a thing doesn't matter beyond a short distance. Anyone know if this is a really nice translation?
Plan to continue? (Maybe there aren't many responses to this because it's not 100% in the right thread to discuss such a matter.)
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@Cap'n:
I think it's pretty much guaranteed that everyone else on Ohara is DEAD.
Until the Mugiwara use Franky's time machine to go back in time and save Olivia, Clover and Saul from certain doom. XD
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Man i just read the chapter i'm not one to cry at these types of things, but lets just say that if i were i probably would have to take a kleenex to my Keyboard…..this was the most wonderful chapter of OP dare i say it? EVER. And the fact that Toei will soon get around to animating it? (Imagines the BGM playing during this moment along with the other sound effects and becomes a puddle of anticipatory goo.)
Great job Oda. You deserve all the praise that one piece gets worldwide.
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@Fire Fist:
Until the Mugiwara use Franky's time machine to go back in time and save Olivia, Clover and Saul from certain doom. XD
I swear to god, if Oda does this, I am going directly to his house and implanting some sense in his head with a 2X4.
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Great chapter, certainly my favorite flashback so far, yet at the beginning I was just waiting for the CP9 fights to begin… I was expecting Sauro to put up more of a fight against Aokiji (though Aokiji is still one of my favorite characters...), but not like he actually fought him head on, though a loss is probably inevitable either way.
Anyways... can't wait for the next chapter, hopefully the fights start soon...
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this is the best flashback ever =( …... i hope Luffy destroy the buster call >=(
.... poor Robin =(
*sit in the corner and cry -
Wow, by and far the biggest tragady to happen to a Straw-Hat. That last image is an extreme heartbreaker and it look like my theory on Ao actully seem to have some truth to it: looking out for innocents but loyal to Navy, stuck between a rock and a hard place.
But now that thats out of the way, am guessing next chapter will show how Robin survived before leading back into the present day and the start of the CP9 fight. I gotta wonder how the Straw Hats will react to this tale.
And the cover, so the three have reached their goal. But now what?
Get nuts or go crazy trying.
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Such a great chapter! This one almost tops Chopper's as sadest flashback ever. And I hope Oda ends it here. The image of Robin going out into the world, all alone, with her hometown burning behind her is the perfect end to this flashback. And it'd be nice to still leave the rest of Robin's past mysterious. All the other info about how she met up with Baroque isn't really needed, and this flashback has gone on long enough.
And if Spandain hasn't retired/died yet, he's probably in the position of head of Cipher Pols. The head of the CP's can't be Spandam, because the head of the CP's most likely is works closely with the Gorousei in Marijoa, not based in Eneis Lobby. And while CP9 is the most important of the CPs, that doesn't mean that it has the authority to govern the other CPs…...
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But now that thats out of the way, am guessing next chapter will show how Robin survived before leading back into the present day and the start of the CP9 fight.
Yeh, I think it'll be a run-off into Ch.398 (a la Ch.358 - conclusion of Franky's flashback) maybe with some of the Marine fallout of Ohara and just a page or perhaps two of Robin's life over the last 20 years. I don't think Oda needs to go too in depth here, unless there's certain things about Robin's past we still need to know about.
~prays for blossoming teen Robin
I'd safely say we'll be back at the Lobby by Ch.399. Though, I'm really thinking Oda's gearing up for a color page for ch.400, depending on how the full Jump #11 listing turns out, we'll have our answer soon enough.
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Sauro: go to meet your nakama!!! Robin!!!
That is the reason of all the flashback. Now Robin only hace to understand that she already found her nakamas.
I don't know… what more say... :bawling: :bawling:
Kinai.:bawling:
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sniffling I wasn't sure how Oda was gonna conclude this (I actually wasn't quite feeling this flashback as well as I felt others, like Chopper's and Franky's) but this chapter just brought everything to a hilt. You go Oda, you're one of the last really good storytellers in the world (that I know of).
And we now have a much better grip on Ao Kiji's personality. He's pretty damn ruthless himself, but he knows that the world is multi-faceted. He doesn't follow the WG blindly, he has his own opinions.
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Well, Robin found her Nakama. Her Nakama does everything they can to reach and rescue her but she rejects their help instead of accepting the help. If Sauro was alive now and sees Robin acts that way I wonder what would he do?
When the flashback is done, is Robin going to be stubborn or will she finally obey Sauro and ask her Nakama for help? Let's see in chapter 399.
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Crocodile may well be there himself; it's probably only been… what, a week and a half or two weeks since they were in Alabasta?
I doubt he's a guy that the Marines can move around easily, seastone or not.
A week huh? Has anyone tried to get an exact amount of time that Luffy's been at sea?
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A week huh? Has anyone tried to get an exact amount of time that Luffy's been at sea?
Yea, there are a few posts on it.
http://ap.animemedia.org/showthread.php?t=4700
Roman Zaenom makes a very detailed post here.
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It wouldn't be an impossibility for someone not within the naval system to become a high ranking naval officer if the Five Elders (and not Sengoku) are the ones responsible for appointing admirals (similar to how the US President is responsible for appointing generals). If they have this power they can pretty much appoint anyone as admiral if they believe this would serve their purposes somehow - and unlike the US President they wouldn't have to worry about opinion polls and getting re-elected.
This is actually exactly the reason why Spandain has zero chance to be promoted to such a position. In terms to protect the Gorousei, they need the best military officers. Spandain sucks as that, because his qualities are in sleazy investigation. That´s why he is a government agent. In the Marine, they need people with the qualities of a soldier. And the Three Admirals are labeled as the "Strongest Powers of the World Government". If the Gorousei would put in such a weakling as Spandain in such a position it would be as if they are shooting themselves in their own legs, because that dude ain´t got what it takes to fill in that role.
But anyways, that won´t happen. Oda already established that the OP government and military works just as in the real world. A government agent can´t be promoted to a military high military position if he never was a high ranked soldier before.
It's easy to do that with Robin though; she's a Devil Fruit user, she is an archaelogist studying information about warmachines that nearly destroyed the World, and she escaped the awesome power of an entire fleet of battleships.
But nobody except for the Ohara residents knew that Robin had those powers. If people outside of Ohara find that out then it is because of government propaganda and not because it was common knowledge before.
And as far as the warmachines in concerned. That´s a government lie. True the exists, but nobody from Ohara not even Robin wanted to revive them. But the WG sells the story like that and the world has to believe it since they don´t have any other background information. If the WG spreads the word about her and the general opinion about her is completely dependant on that, then the WG can spread the same lies about every other innocent citizen of Ohara.
Oh, some people will still be, but many will be mollified. People already in a position where they don't trust the World Government will easily see through this, pirates especially, but many won't, especially if the World Government does something to change public discussion to something else entirely.
Of course some people would see through it, but the people of those kind never believe in propaganda. I´m talking about the clueless majority of the world. They would fall for it.
I still think it's easier to place the blame on Robin that it is to suggest that your own troops did it though.
Why? If you sell everyone as Demon then you did a good thing by killing them. I mean I don´t see any difference between killing a innocent grandpa like Clover and killing innocent non-scholars that were on the refugee ship. Neither of them are demons, but the killing of the scholars is justified because the sell them as demons. So sell the refugees as demons too and their killing will also be justified. Of course the WG doesn´t have to spread the word that they got killed on a refugee ship. They could easily say that the scholars and non-scholars were all together plotting against the WG. After all, the weren´t any witnesses who could tell the opposite.
See, this is exactly the reason that I wish Oda would release a World Government hierarchy like he did for the Navy: to answer questions like this and others like, does Sengoku have a civilian boss that reports to the Gorosei or does he do so directly or is the Judiciary part of the Navy itself or seperate?
Hmm, that can only be speculated. Actually everything is possible here. He might not have any WG official except the Gorousei that stands above him. On the other hand he might have a government counter part, that also reports to the Gorousei but is superior to everyone else among the WG. And they are both on the same level so the can´t command each others. Then again there might even be such a superior government official that stands above Sengoku but obeys the Gorousei. We can´t really rule out any option so far. So yes, I´m as curious as you how the WG structure looks like. We´ve actually just seen the Gorousei and lots of government agents but nothing more so far.
Isn't that Spandam though? The home base of the Cipher Pols appears to be Enies Lobby and he is head of that facility as well as a member of the highest ranking Cipher Pol cell.
Actually I see similarities to the real world here. The superiors determine who´s in charge of certain missions. They can say this is a government mission, chose a supreme director for that task and tell the Marine that in the end this director has the total saying.
However the opposite is also possible if the superiors decide that it is a marine mission that requires help of government agents.I really think that it depends on what the absolute superiors (the Gorousei) decide here. I don´t think that it is a given that the head of CP9 commands all of Enies Lobby. It is just required for this long term mission to be like that IMO. Same counts for summon other Cipher Pol agents like Wanze and Jerry for help. Spandam is in charge of the mission so he asks for the help of other agents. If they choose to be part of that mission then they accept Spandam as the director of this one as long as they did their part. But in general I don´t think that is the case.
Of course, Spandain may well be in a position that controls the Cipher Pols as well as any other intelligence assets the World Government might possess.
At least I think so. It would make sense if such a bureaucratic pyramide structure exists in the WG.
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I don't know if this was said already, but I was… a bit bored.
So Sauro sacrifices himself, leaving Robin alone... So sad!!! But....
Shanks sacrificed his arm for Luffy, Jeff (Sp?) sacrficied his leg and dream for Sanji, Nami's Mother sacrificed herself for Nami and her Sister, Hiruluk / Bader, the quacksalver-doc on drum, sacrificed himself for chopper and his beloved country and Tom sacrificed himself for Iceberg, Fankie and the sake of the world.
It feels as if most strawhat-members have experienced about the same tragedy in their past and as if Oda uses the same pattern on most of his longer flashbacks. Oh well, could be my imagination....
OP 
