so will every december be a flashback O__O
Chapter 395 "Ohara vs. the World Government" Discussion
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Yes, because Oda has summoned the spirits of One Piece past to go along with the spirit of christmas Past.
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@Octogon:
**People have probaley thought this up already, but..
I think that the "D's" might be survivers of this lost kingdom. Perhaps royalty? People that only now are starting to revolt against the desendents of the group of people that brought upon their ansestors doom. Of course the D's them sleves probaley don't know this, as over time they have probaley seperated to all over the world. This would explain why even though they were D's Blackbeard and luffy didn't know each other at all. I'm also thinking that the name of this past Kingdom is the same as to that the letter D stands for. And Gold Roger found out about this, and even to this day had supporters ready to perodiclly overthrow the WG. Fate would bring them all to eventually in some way or another to overthrow the WG.
Just a theory. :wacko:**
I think you're on the right track, actually. It also goes along with the theory I'm working on.
I don't, however, think that the D's are royalty; Someone like Luffy or Blackbeard a king?
Modifying my theory in the other thread, I believe that the D kingdom's inhabitants ate some kind of reincarnation devil fruit… the tensei tensei fruit, or the nai nai fruit. Or even turned themselves into devil fruits (Yes, some of you will laugh at that, but I wouldn't put it past Oda to do that). Poseidon and Pluton were unleashed on the cities and the kingdom was destroyed, but the citizens survived as devil fruits.
Yes, that is really weird. I'm still working on my theory.
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**Another part of my crazy theory:
Perhaps whats happening with Blachbeard is in sort of what happned in the past. A man from within the Kingdom betrayed the people and allied with the alliance. I predict that the Kingdom was actually winning the war, until this induvidual joined the alliance.
This would fit in with with Blackbeard trying to become a shichbukai. Of course this man didn't join the alliance for this purpose. And in the end realized that what he did was wasn't right, but he was of no use to them anymore so they killed him. With effort of course, I believe he ( like blackbeard ) was extremley strong.
Being a man of the King he betrayed the world in search for greatness.**
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That idea of the Old Kingdom's people becoming Devil Fruits is interesting. Dunno how likely it is, but it isn't impossible, s Devil Fruit are one of only two purely supernatural things in One Piece I'm aware of (the only other being the Klaubatermann).
Wouldn't it be interesting if the D actually stood for Devil, in this context?
In response to any who said this plot point was predictable/done to death, does it matter? TO me, it's not necessarily about the plot itself. A completely original story is very rare, it's mroe about HOW the story's done for me. Most of the Straw Hats have lost loved one stories that are rather cliche in some aspeclts, but they're done so well that it doesn't matter much.
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Taboo. Become my husband. I was thinking that the whole time I was translating.
You can't have taboo, she's going to be MY husband!
Cool, I didn't even know I could be a husband. :laugh: I must get with the times… now, who to pick to be my wife.... :wacko:
so will every december be a flashback O__O
Oh yeah! A year ago was when the Franky flashback started, wasn't it? I remember that! It doesn't seem so far back… It's almost my 1year anneversary of being up to date with the manga as well. nostalgic
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So the World Government is connected to the true history which has something to do with some Kingdome that is likely related to D. I wonder if the devil fruits will be tied into this as well. Perhaps the Alliance (WG) in its efforts to overthrow the Kingdome opened sort of Pandoras box, which eventually gave birth to the devil fruits.
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Oh my…
.....is speechless o.o
It going to be interesting to see if we will learn more about this.... kingdom. o.o
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Last year this week, chapter 350 came out, we had to wait FOUR weeks for chapter 351 to come out. In the second week of waiting, Omae created a topic called "It might come out any minutes now!" which had people waiting for nothing and Roboblue close that misleading topic. We still had to wait 2 weeks untie chapter 351 came out. This year, it's 395 and we may face another four weeks of wait. Omae are you planning to create a Deja Vu topic in two weeks again?
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Wow, that chapter was too much. Seriously, I'm having a brain overload. Oda is just starting to bring it all together and I'm loving every bit of it. What kind of civilization could create unbreakable records of history? And what kind of power could suppress that knowledge for 800 years? One Piece just gets better with every chapter.
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The name of this fallen kingdom was … ONE PIECE.
Thats what i thought at once.I also love octogon's idea.
A man from within the Kingdom betrayed the people and allied with the alliance.
Maybe thats how the alliance managed to get a few ancient weapons.
And the war that broke out bec of that almost destr the world.
But in the end with there last effort the kingdom destr the alliance weapons
and hid there own weapons and disappeared with there entire island raftel.
And only the Rio Poneglyph tells how to find raftel and one piece. -
wipes tears from eyes and blows nose
Darn you Oda, making me cry again.
That was indeed a powerful chapter. Emotional, heartbreaking, philosophically deep, and full of information that opens even more questions. And this is why I love One Piece. At first I thought it was just going to be nothing more than a little island-to-island treasure hunt story. I guess in a sense it still is, but it's become rather…epic.
Poor Robin-chan. =(
I cannot but quote you here CosmicDebris…
It's why I've been in love with this story all these years now ;) -
WOW, an early chapter and I was late in replying so I'm probably repeating what other members have already wrote. Forgive me for any double.
Anyhow, an awesome chapter, not only did we get to see what is 'possibly' the saddest moment of Robin's past but we are also being revealed a very valuable piece of information.
Oda always amazes me with his flashbacks & fact revelation. Like an onion, he always peel of information bits by bits at the correct time.
Anyhow, I think that Robin's flashback will continue on. The next chapter will probably show the destruction of the island and how Sauro protected Robin from Buster Call. We also probably can see how Robin gets captured by Aokiji.
What I really want to see is whether there is anyone who will accompany Robin to her adulthood after the Buster Call event. I mean for Luffy there was Makino & village elder, Zorro had his teacher, Usopp had Kaya & his 'crew', Sanji had Zeff, Nami had Nojiko and Chopper had Dr Kureha. If she was trully all alone after the Buster Call then she might have the saddest past within the StrawHats. -
Uh, hey, Ulrilra2 of the OP MSN message board posted this up while scanslating:
@Ulrilra2:
Ehhh….Woah....Uhm...I'm having trouble translating a certain part that could be incredibly vital...Right at the point where Professor Clover is about to reveal what the name of the ancient kingdom is and he's cut off, I'm not totally sure, but it seems he's not cut off at "the name of the ancient city is-" but rather, "the name of the ancient city is Raf-" I've already checked with multiple translators and I seem to get different results each time. I could be totally mistaken, so I'm just going to cut it off at "the name of the ancient city is-" in case I have made a mistake which could totally screw up the story if I have since "Raf-" is probably "Raftel", the last island in the Grand Line.
So are you guys sure about the translation(s) on this chapter?
Oh, here's the link.
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I just checked again just in case, but Clover does not say any part of the name. He is shot right as he says "is…"
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Hm, yeah you're right, but I just find it weird how Ulrilra managed to get what he got.
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Hmm… if Raftel is related to this ancient kingdom, and perhaps is the location of the Rio Poneglyph, then perhaps Roger, maybe he purposely sent so many people after "One Piece," knowing that if he sent them all in that direction, he'd have a great number of people discovering the truth? If he did do that, he'd have ALL these people working toward uncovering the connection of the WG and this great catastrophe of the past; a great number of people who also, coincidentally, would have made themselves enemies of the WG by becoming pirates in the first place.
Just a thought.
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That´s a good thought. After all Roger wants his treasure to be found. There must be a reason for that.
And what was Crocus saying? "Those… might be the pirates we've been waiting for this whole time..."? What for?
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Taboo. Become my husband. I was thinking that the whole time I was translating.
You can't have taboo, she's going to be MY husband!
Um, are we expecting some Yuri action here? <3
Thanks for the chapter. My girl told me yesterday but I was out all day long. Finally I have some time now.
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I'm Going to Bring Back Rogers words:
Inherited will…
The destiny of the age and dreams of it's people.
These will not be stopped.
As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedomTHESE WILL NEVER CEASE TO BE!
**When I first heard this quote all the talk of freedom didn't make much sense. but now it seems evident that Roger is the one that sparked the revolution. And it would make perfect sense if he still, up to this day has people revolting against the WG.
The inherited will he speakes, of could men those with blood from the kingdom. And those with this blood would be the "D's"**
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@Octogon:
When I first heard this quote all the talk of freedom didn't make much sense. but now it seems evident that Roger is the one that sparked the revolution. And it would make perfect sense if he still, up to this day has people revolting against the WG.
The inherited will he speakes, of could men those with blood from the kingdom. And those with this blood would be the "D's"
Yeah those words of Roger now make even more sense. "Inherited will" appears in a totally different level, if you look at it from the perspective that the D´s are the descendants of the people of the Ancient Kingdom.
In that context I´d like to bring back what Dragon said right after those words you quoted from Roger. He said: "A pirate, huh? Good"
Now why is it good? If you look at it from this descendant perspective, then beeing a pirate is good choice since they defy the laws of the government. Wouldn´t that be a good prerequisite to fulfill the inherited will (if this means to reveal the truth and bring freedom to the world).
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One Piece is amazing, indeed. And it was quite a surprise to see a new chapter this week.
I have little to sat after all the comments made in this thread, but it seems that One Piece is entering a turning point. From this point on, things will change. Luffy is going to rise to world menace level after the raiding of Eneas Lobby, and we can bet that more and more epic moments will come. This chapter was amazing in all senses. –-VERY GOOD---
Some here have theorized that maybe all "D" can read the Poneglyphs. I was thinking about this for some time, and I do agree. We have never seen Luffy stoping to look at the one in Alabasta, and he did not see the one in Sky Piea. I do believe that he may have this ability.
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But how does being a descendant of some people make you able to understand their language if you were never practicing it? As I said it before, it isn´t rare that 2nd and 3rd generation migrants (no matter where in the world) don´t speak the language of their parents/grandparents anymore.
I´m a 2nd generation migrant myself. Ok I do speak and read the language of my parents, however my german is times better then my yugoslavian. And I´ve met lots of people who have the same background like me but who can´t speak even a bit of the language.
All I´m trying to say is that they don´t have nobody to teach them the language, it would be kinda dull if the D´s could speak the language by themselves. It sounds a bit whack, but then again if it is wrapped around decently it could make sense.
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**I think al the D's being able to read the language could work, depending on how Oda would portray it. But then Robins existance seems kinda pointless. But if Oda does it, HE can de it so it won't seem outta place.
I do however think there is a reason Oda hasn't shown luffy the ponyglyphs. I believe that luffy (and every other "D") know more about all this history then they are letting on. Had luffy seen the ponygyph, I'm sure he would have had reacted to them with surprise**.
Yeah those words of Roger now make even more sense. "Inherited will" appears in a totally different level, if you look at it from the perspective that the D´s are the descendants of the people of the Ancient Kingdom.
In that context I´d like to bring back what Dragon said right after those words you quoted from Roger. He said: "A pirate, huh? Good"
Now why is it good? If you look at it from this descendant perspective, then beeing a pirate is good choice since they defy the laws of the government. Wouldn´t that be a good prerequisite to fulfill the inherited will (if this means to reveal the truth and bring freedom to the world).
**Yep. It certainly does seem that way. From all the information we have of Dragon, it seems that he has been biding his time. For something to happen.
I also wonder if luffy knows of Dragon? Oda dillebitrley made sure luffy never saw Dragon. But why? the same thing happned with everything we saw/heard relating to the blank years.
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And also another point. Even though this is pretty unlikley. Could it be that Doonflamingo meant something more by "the era of dreams is coming to an end"? I don't think he is on the kingdoms side. But more on the WG's side.
Oc ourse this is unlikley, just a thought.**
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But how does being a descendant of some people make you able to understand their language if you were never practicing it? As I said it before, it isn´t rare that 2nd and 3rd generation migrants (no matter where in the world) don´t speak the language of their parents/grandparents anymore.
I´m a 2nd generation migrant myself. Ok I do speak and read the language of my parents, however my german is times better then my yugoslavian. And I´ve met lots of people who have the same background like me but who can´t speak even a bit of the language.
All I´m trying to say is that they don´t have nobody to teach them the language, it would be kinda dull if the D´s could speak the language by themselves. It sounds a bit whack, but then again if it is wrapped around decently it could make sense.
None of us are trying to pass it off as a sure thing. It would be a bit wacky, but in a series such as this, it's possible. It would be more likely that they were taught it by their family at a young age, because they were 'D's. The only real notable part of this idea is that Roger wouldn't need a translator. No one should be able to read the language besides a few learned scholars of Ohara, this provides a useful out.
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Well, Roger may have been different in that he learned the language. I think it's obvious that Luffy doesn't know anythign about poneglyphs.
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I doubt this Raftel theory.
Raftel is almost impossible to reach. Only a few at most will ever reach it. And lets not Forget the Language on the Poneglyps are only able to be read by a select few, Like Robin. Even if 1000's of people saw the Rio Poneglyp it wouldn't meam much, if they couldn't decipher what it says.I have my own Idea on what One Piece actually is. Since yesterday i just thought it up, and it sounds plausable.
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I think if Luffy/Ace/Blackbeard/Saul could read the Poneglyphs, people would most likely complain. "Inherited Ability" is the very Shounen theme that people hate seeing in One Piece.
Further, I also disagree with any Raftel notion as a "kingdome". The kingdome was huge, such that it encompassed the world, so why would it be restricted to just a single island?
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Not to mention that Raftel is an a very remote , Impossble to reach Island. Having a Kingdom there simply wouldn't work.
But somehow the Rio Poneglype ended up in SkyPiea. -
Further, I also disagree with any Raftel notion as a "kingdome". The kingdome was huge, such that it encompassed the world, so why would it be restricted to just a single island?
Because a) each large kingdom has something like a capitol and b) that thing on page 7 was just one island.
@Lighting-Ace:
But somehow the Rio Poneglype ended up in SkyPiea.
The Rio Poneglyph didn´t end up in Skypiea. The Rio Poneglyph is formed by all the text´s of the different Poneglyph´s put together.
BTW, you mind sharing your theory on what One Piece is? I would like to hear it.
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@Lighting-Ace:
Not to mention that Raftel is an a very remote , Impossble to reach Island. Having a Kingdom there simply wouldn't work.
And how do you know this? For all we know Raftel was a completley different place 800 years ago. For all we know the kingdom made sure the WG wouldn't be able to get to raftel. for all we know they located themselves on raftel so they could be protected. For all we know Raftel is unreachable because the kingdom fell.
But somehow the Rio Poneglype ended up in SkyPiea.
no it didn't.
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Okay- Ignore that Rio Poneglyph statement i made- was due to a misunderstanding on my part.
Yes- for all we Know. Meaning its not proven.
I base that on what has been shown.
Raftel is at the end of the Grandline. Grandline its self is a almost Impossible to navigate due to the weather patterns etc..I believe OP to be treasure from the Ancient Kingdom which Roger found somehow using the Poneglyph, amongst other stuff he had.
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@omae:
Which is exactly whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy I'm so damn interested to see why a civilization that supposedly 'fell' during that period has people with wings in their back and just so happens to have protected a Poneglyph, similar to people in the sky with wings in their back.
If Oda is even pondering the kind of wrapping together of the story that I think he is, he will forever be the greatest storyteller known to the universe and beyond…...times infinity plus one.
swoons
Clover still had the strength to speak after being shot, if only he would just finish that damn sentence already :/
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there are more important things in life. one is the fact that the theory was confirmed. another is making sure that Robin isn't labeled a criminal.
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@Lighting-Ace:
Yes- for all we Know. Meaning its not proven.
I base that on what has been shown.
Raftel is at the end of the Grandline. Grandline its self is a almost Impossible to navigate due to the weather patterns etc..**And what exactly has been shown? You can't base on if raftel was the capital of the kingdom only on whats been shown. You have to look further.
Where doesn it say the rand line was always like that? Or ever consider that perhaps their is another entrance? Or that they used the other entrance to the grand line ( the one the marines and WG uses ) instead of reverse mountain? Or that raftel simply wasn't as hard to get to 800 years ago?
And also the fact that no one outside of Roger and co has went to Raaftel, could very well mean that it was the kingdom. And that the reason no one was able to find out about is is becauase of the danger of going to raftel.**
I believe OP to be treasure from the Ancient Kingdom which Roger found somehow using the Poneglyph, amongst other stuff he had.
Mind being more specific? Because a tresure can be anything.
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@Lighting-Ace:
I believe OP to be treasure from the Ancient Kingdom which Roger found somehow using the Poneglyph, amongst other stuff he had.
But Roger found the golden city Shandora and the golden bell and instead of taking it with him he actually left it where it was and even left an important message on the same.
I´m not saying that there won´t be any treasure. But I´m sure that the One Piece will be far more then just treasure itself. If it´s just gold and diamonds then it doesn´t make any sense for leaving all that gold at Skypiea behind. To me at least it doesn´t.
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Okay okay run with me here
What if (massive twist) The people who brought down the race that carried the ancient weapons were in fact
drum roll….........The clan of D?
The only people who carried the will and generation passed down strenth which allowed them to bring down the all powerfull ancient nations?
Think abt it, it would be a cool parellel to what luffy is doing now, bringing down the most powerful nation in the world- the world goverment. Piece by piece
BTW yokaiforte- your avatar is giving me dirty thoughts, and i have no idea why...
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… You know, Ivotas, I was just staring at your Dragon avatar and it struck me that the markings on his face are rather similar to the Shandians'.
Possible connection, maybe? I might have to think about this some more, but feel free to let me know what you think.
I mention this because of the talk of Dragon's involvement with and/or connections to the old kingdom. Shandora certainly seems to have connections with the place -- though again, so does Arabasta. Either way, it might say something interesting about all of this if Dragon is related to the Shandians.
Forgive me if this has been mentioned before -- I'm still new and haven't dug through all the old threads yet =P
Oh, and forgive me also if I used incorrect names. I'm off to make sure I got those right, since I remember them being called Cyandians but the conventions around here seem to say otherwise...
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@the:
swoons
Clover still had the strength to speak after being shot, if only he would just finish that damn sentence already :/
I thought the exact same thing.
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@Cap'n:
I thought the exact same thing.
If I were shot because I wouldn't shut up, and I was still alive, I would probably stop speaking, too. Clover's the head archeologist, right? That puts some degree of responsibility in regard to the welfare of the other archeologists (and Robin) on his shoulders.
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But how does being a descendant of some people make you able to understand their language if you were never practicing it? As I said it before, it isn´t rare that 2nd and 3rd generation migrants (no matter where in the world) don´t speak the language of their parents/grandparents anymore.
The truth is that we know nothing of Luffy's past. He could have somehow learned it in his infancy. After all, who is Luffy's and Ace's father? Luffy does seem to know who his Grandfather is, for example, and yet nothing was ever revealed about his family. We stood for over 120 chapters without even knowing he had a brother. So, I think Luffy could read a poneglyph, IF Oda is to ever introduce this in the story.
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The truth is that we know nothing of Luffy's past. He could have somehow learned it in his infancy. After all, who is Luffy's and Ace's father? Luffy does seem to know who his Grandfather is, for example, and yet nothing was ever revealed about his family. We stood for over 120 chapters without even knowing he had a brother. So, I think Luffy could read a poneglyph, IF Oda is to ever introduce this in the story.
If it gets explained like this then it is ok. I was just commenting on being able to read something without ever learning the language would seem a little bit weird.
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The truth is that we know nothing of Luffy's past. He could have somehow learned it in his infancy. After all, who is Luffy's and Ace's father? Luffy does seem to know who his Grandfather is, for example, and yet nothing was ever revealed about his family. We stood for over 120 chapters without even knowing he had a brother. So, I think Luffy could read a poneglyph, IF Oda is to ever introduce this in the story.
That's more or less what I meant when I said
As for the D's being able to read poneglyphs… well, it seems like the D's we've met so far know much more than they let on, including about each other. The knowledge could have been passed down/around between them?
We know very, very little about the D's themselves. I'm not sure I buy this myself, but I do think the theories along these lines have some validity to them.
EDIT: aaaaand Ivotas once again gets to it before I do. Eh, he tends to make more sense than I do anyway.
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The truth is that we know nothing of Luffy's past. He could have somehow learned it in his infancy. After all, who is Luffy's and Ace's father? Luffy does seem to know who his Grandfather is, for example, and yet nothing was ever revealed about his family. We stood for over 120 chapters without even knowing he had a brother. So, I think Luffy could read a poneglyph, IF Oda is to ever introduce this in the story.
Somehow, I doubt Luffy's family, disregarding his grandfather and Ace, are going to play any major role in OP. The only significant past related material is usually referenced, with Oda's medium of flashbacks becoming the most significant. Shanks was whom shaped Luffy's future, just as Zeff did for Sanji, Arlong did for Nami, Kuina for Zoro, Hiliruk for Chopper, Usopp's mother for Usopp, and Saul/Archeologists for Robin.
Everything else is virtually meaningless. I cite Dragonball as the strongest example, because Bardock was a filler character, and Raditz a one shot.
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Hmm… I don't mean to imply that Luffy has some other... father-figure, I guess, besides Shanks. It's just that whole bit about his Grandpa -- there's something more to that story, and I think it might be reasonable to think that this grandfather taught Luffy some things he hasn't let on about yet.
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Here is my wild guess:
A person of "d" + a devil fruit + Phoneglyph = someone who can read the phoneglyph without the years of research .Robin knows that only Ohara people can read them, then she meets Luffy, who is a "D" also like Sauro . Next, she finds the Skypiea stone and finds that Roger read it . Now she knows she is not the only one, so maybe luffy can if she takes him to it, but they leave realy fast . I put the fruit in cause we don't know if roger was a user or if Dragon may be a person of "D" . Before yall say what about the Alabastar stone, Luffy was more into the fight than reading, but he could have snuck a peek and Robin not know .
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But…. Robin is just assuming that Roger can understand poneglyphs.
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Maybe, but if it wasn't Roger, can that mean that someone besides Robin is alive, and can read the poneglyphs?
Also when this flashback started Robin was talking about hopw he said the Ohara's were erased(something like that), does this mean that a few of the arecheologists will survive this? Also how, and when does Robin find that out, if she was always with criminal orginizations.
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If I were shot because I wouldn't shut up, and I was still alive, I would probably stop speaking, too. Clover's the head archeologist, right? That puts some degree of responsibility in regard to the welfare of the other archeologists (and Robin) on his shoulders.
I'm still going with plot convenience as the reason. They're all supposed to die anyway, right?
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@the:
I'm still going with plot convenience as the reason. They're all supposed to die anyway, right?
I agree. Clover even said that everyone has a right to know the truth so he would actually act heroic with yelling the rest out even if he dies.
However I´m actually more curious whether he was actually really going to say the name of the kingdom or if his statement should have been like "…the name of the fallen kingdom was kept a secret" or something like that.
I mean if the name is the key to it all then Clover already had it solved and there wouldn´t be much left for Robin to search for. Or am I misunderstanding that passage? <_<