Oh, come on, post the fake spoiler..
Humor us, we're chompin at the bit :(
Oh, come on, post the fake spoiler..
Humor us, we're chompin at the bit :(
YAH! YAH! YAH! Post it, lets see how fake is the fake spoiler…:) It could be real you know...a REAL fake spoiler...
Mihawk shows up at Ohara and fights Aokiji to a stand still.
See who needs someone else's fake spoilers when you can create your own?
Too long to translate, so I won:t be posting it until… later. Probably won:t post it if real one comes out. I say it:s fake because he:s got no proof. (Also, I think he:s the same guy posting fake spoilers for past several weeks.)
... Excuse me for typing with bad punctuations. Using Japaense keyboard now +/) <- :/ (Takes time to figure out what:s in where.)
plst post the spoiler ocean hehehe.. atleast some summary of it if u have time hehe
It's Thursday. Why bother with the spoiler, now, when we can expect a chapter?
Generally speaking, ト "to" and ド "do" are used to spell loanwords that end in a hard "t" or "d" sound. The reason they don't use ツ or ヅ is because these sounds are palatized to the fricatives "tsu" and "zu," respectively. トゥ "tu" and ドゥ "du" exist, but they are more recent innovations, and are really only meant to reproduce the sounds "tu" and "du," rather than the consonant-stops that "to" and "do" stand in for.
For some further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology
I translate Japanese, I know. :) I was just trying to figure out if that was what he meant.
In the Bible, there was a King Saul who was at war against the Palestines who lived in a country full of giants. Goliath was the strongest giant, and if I remember correctly, a guy named David killed Goliath.
It's pretty interesting if you think about it…
Jaguar D. Saul = King Saul
Goliath = Gol D. Roger
David = some D?
Dragon? o.o
lalalalalalaalalalaalaallllaaaa
Daav D. Tyson.
What do you mean? ^^;
Like I'd see waarudo (world) but never "waarudu." I was trying to get to the point of not seeing a single syllable for "du" but I guess I didn't.
It sounds silent because you're pronounciating it in English way. We still pronounce "usoppu" even it's written as Usopp. Same to Waporu. Eneru. We definitely have 3 syllables each for Usopp, Waporu, and Eneru.
Yes that´s what I meant. Sorry if I made it sound like the u isn´t pronounced after all. I meant that to english pronounciation it appears as if it doesn´t get pronounced. But of course it´s there.
And then the question was whether or not if the o gets pronounced a bit stronger then the u in the above mentioned context.
Like I'd see waarudo (world) but never "waarudu." I was trying to get to the point of not seeing a single syllable for "du" but I guess I didn't.
… Cause World is an -o ending, not an -u ending :O
Goliath = Gol D. Roger
WOW, I am impressed. I know Oda tends to stick in Biblical references, but I never could think of anything that, even in the slightest, could explain Roger's last name. It could have just been a plot device…but jeez, good job!
… Cause World is an -o ending, not an -u ending :O
That was my point. No 'du' endings that I've seen.
Well since the new chapter already is out and this thread here already went down the spelling route I´ll ask the next question in this context.
Could someone please be so kind to write down (in romaji of course) how Spandine´s/Spandain´s name is written in original. I´m really curious because because I tend towards Spandain because Spandine sounds toooooo feminine. But if the original spelling somehow eliminates the possibility of Spandain then I´ll go with the feminine naming.
スパンダイン
S(u) Pa N Da I N
Pronounced like the "ein" in Einstein. Or wine, which is why I use "Spandine."
Ahhh, that´s it. Thanks for the info Buc. The problem I had with "Spandine" is that it completely reminded me of names like Nadine or Undine and the "dine" part there is pronounced like "Dean".
Well, so it´s actually the same thing as Gaimon and Gimon.
I'm with Buc, that's why I use Spandine instead of Spandain because Spandain is like, デイン instead of ダイン…
As for -du ending, her name is spelled taiz but in Japanese, she writes it as タイヅ. Satisfied?
No, you're yee one. XD
Now you too can remember.
Pronounce with me:
SPAN-DINOSAUR
I suppose if you really wanted to make it clear, the spelling "Spandyne" would be best.
I suppose if you really wanted to make it clear, the spelling "Spandyne" would be best.
Beaten to the punch ! :p Spandine looks best to me but, yeah, too many would read it as Nadine.
Ivotas - Undine is actually spoken as 'oon-dee-nay' ! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/tenchizu/undine.jpg
Tales of Phantasia has even more convincing proof since Klarth actually SAYS Undine when he casts the spell but that's hard to cap :E~~
Beaten to the punch ! :p Spandine looks best to me but, yeah, too many would read it as Nadine.
Ivotas - Undine is actually spoken as 'oon-dee-nay' ! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/tenchizu/undine.jpg
Oops, again an example where I was focusing to much on the german pronounciation. I guess you´re right about the english way to pronounce Undine. What I was talking about was difinitely based on german pronounciation.
But even with the saying you say it wouldn´t be SpandAIN then, but Span-dee-nay.
I´m not trying to convince anyone of anything here. I just try to find myself a good spelling of the name that doesn´t remind me of anything of sexy women. Oh well, maybe I should go with Spandein!!! :laugh:
Ivotas - Undine is actually spoken as 'oon-dee-nay' !
In English, it's uhndeen.
The 'u' works like the 'u' in 'cut' while the 'i' takes on a 'ee' sound like in "bee".
Now you too can remember.
Pronounce with me:
SPAN-DINOSAUR
I love you forever.
(Not that I didn't love you for the awesome trans each week, but this is brilliant XD)
I´ve just had one thought about the Jaguar part of Saul´s name. As it has already been established in this thread, to pronounce jaguar like haguar is a spanish thing.
Now the interesting thing that just popped into my mind is that Nico Robin´s DF attacks use spanish numbers, i. e. "Ocho Fleur" where ocho is the spanish term for eight.
For both it is the first part of the name that is spanish. Intention? Coincidence? Who knows, I just thought I´d share this little discovery in case it wasn´t mentioned before, because with Oda you can expect everything.
BTW, this raises the question if Saul somehow covers the frensh part "fleur". Can´t really say anything on that. :mellow:
If Oda keeps in with language continuities, Saul's name might be an indicator of his nativism to West Blue. I mean, the three big European countries of the pirate age, Britain, Spain, and France, all have their languages somehow mixed in with different blues; Sanji was born in North Blue and has all his attacks in French. Furthermore, though not to sterotype, it seems blond guys tend to come from North Blue (Bellamy comes to mind, and perhaps Zeff). Furthermore, Robin looks pretty Spanish, so maybe the spanish language plays a role in people whom have attacks from West Blue. It's not just Robin, either…Mr.1 looked Spanish, too (for contrast, so as not to group all Spanish people as having darker skin, Lafiette is as white as the moon).
I have my doubts here simply because I don´t like to use a handful of guys to be indicators for the people of a large region of the world. It´s as saying that every US American citizen is a cowboy, every japanese citizen is a samurai and so on and so on. I´m not too fond of such indicators.
Besides you take Robin as indicator for a spanish inspiration for West Blue. What do you do with all the other people of Ohara? They are West Blue residents too. But they don´t look that spanish to me.
And for Norht Blue you say people are blond and take Bellamy and Sanji as examples. What do you do with Sarquiss, Norland and his entire crew, the Lyvneel King and the people who watched Norland´s execution who all also come from there? They are not blond and yet you take Sanji´s and Bellamy´s blond hair as indicator for the region where all those people come from.
I´m sorry but I´m not bying this theory because it ignores to many variables. And even if there wouldn´t be all the people I just listed from West and North Blue, it is still a very dangerous method to determine the frame for people by just looking at a hand full of guys.
All I meant with my previous post was that Oda might done it again and created a little connection with the spanish pronounciation of "Jaguar" and the spanish numbers in Robin´s Hana Hana moves. That´s all.
And for Norht Blue you say people are blond and take Bellamy and Sanji as examples. What do you do with Sarquiss, Norland and his entire crew, the Lyvneel King and the people who watched Norland´s execution who all also come from there? They are not blond and yet you take Sanji´s and Bellamy´s blond hair as indicator for the region where all those people come from.
I don't think he meant so much that people from North Blue all have blonde hair so much as North Blue is a region where you can reasonably expect fair-haired people to come from.
If I interpret what he's suggesting correctly, the notion is that North Blue reflects more of a French and Northern European region while West Blue has a more Mediterranean influence to it.
I don't know that we have enough evidence to support that conclusion, but it's not unreasonable.
Well maybe it´s just me but I think it is to far off to make any assumptions on that. The reason why I think so is East Blue. This is the only one of the four Blue´s that has been shown a bit more off and so far you can´t really say that there´s a certain kind of people sticking out that you can use to show the typical East Blue citizen.
And in North Blue we´ve just seen people from Lyvneel Kindgom who are different from Sanji and Bellamy. I really don´t think that the people of one entire quarter of the world can be judged by one kingdom and two random blondies. East Blue just shows us how diverse the people can be and we´ve just seen villages and towns there so far. There wasn´t any kindoms or empires so I´m more reserved on such speculations.
I don't think he meant so much that people from North Blue all have blonde hair so much as North Blue is a region where you can reasonably expect fair-haired people to come from.
If I interpret what he's suggesting correctly, the notion is that North Blue reflects more of a French and Northern European region while West Blue has a more Mediterranean influence to it.
I don't know that we have enough evidence to support that conclusion, but it's not unreasonable.
Actually I've often thought about this. I wonder where Kreig comes from? Also, if hispanic-esque people are west-bluians, doesn't that make Hawkeye's origin from somewhere around there?
Well maybe it´s just me but I think it is to far off to make any assumptions on that.
Well, yeah, that's why I said as much. It's interesting, but there isn't enough evidence to support it as anything other than idle speculation.
And in North Blue we´ve just seen people from Lyvneel Kindgom who are different from Sanji and Bellamy.
So what?
Again, the theory that he suggests is that North Blue displays a European influence. To me, Lyneel appears to be a stereotypical European village with distinct Russian overtones.
Actually I've often thought about this. I wonder where Kreig comes from?
I was always under the impression that he was from East Blue myself, though that may not be the case. We see a least one other psuedo-Germanic reference in East Blue in the form of Morgan's jaw.
Also, if hispanic-esque people are west-bluians, doesn't that make Hawkeye's origin from somewhere around there?
Personally, I interpret him as being Eastern European rather than Hispanic, though that's really just because of the vampiric theme.
Is Robin a hispanic?
Personally, I interpret him as being Eastern European rather than Hispanic, though that's really just because of the vampiric theme.
But his hat, beard style, and outfit are all based on spanish pirates.
I always thought this was an interesting thing here too, tying in with shanks and hawkeye. Hawkeye's got the spanish style, and Shanks has that european-like red hair and an english sounding name.
Well, during the REAL golden age of piracy, the toughest pirates were: Spanish or English. that's right; they spent all their time stealing from each other. The french had some, and we had some, but mostly it was the brits and the spaniards.
Is Robin a hispanic?
Hmm…... the name Nico Robin itself being hispanic in nature.....her hair quality and facial composition being roughly ethnically hispanic.....her constant use of spanish...
you're right, how could I be so blind? She must be a fucking NORWIEGAN.
But his hat, beard style, and outfit are all based on spanish pirates.
Again, it's probably just the vampiric influences, but I really think his overall appearance is Hungarian rather than Spanish. The hat, for instance, comes across as a Vampire Hunter D reference rather than being Hispanic.
So what?
What, so what? The people of one kingdom and two other guys are not to be taken representatives for a far bigger area. It´s as if you would say the people of the UK, aswell as one blond guy from Sweden and one blond guy from Danmark represent the European stereotype.
The term I´m having the biggest problem with is actually the term stereotype European. What the hell should that actually be? The only thing that could come close to be labeled as European stereotype is the occidental moral philosophy that somehow is part of all the different cultures within Europe.
Again, the theory that he suggests is that North Blue displays a European influence. To me, Lyneel appears to be a stereotypical European village with distinct Russian overtones.
Well as I just said, I´m having a problem with the term stereotypical European. What is a "stereotypical European village"? I´d really like to know where this idea comes from. Who determines these stereotypes? I have my doubts that it is done by Europeans themselves.
I was always under the impression that he was from East Blue myself, though that may not be the case. We see a least one other psuedo-Germanic reference in East Blue in the form of Morgan's jaw.
Huh, what does Morgan´s jaw have to do with germanic references?
Again, it's probably just the vampiric influences, but I really think his overall appearance is Hungarian rather than Spanish. The hat, for instance, comes across as a Vampire Hunter D reference rather than being Hispanic.
I always thought that his hat was more a The Three Musketeers reference then anything else. After all, he is a swordsman so that connection doesn´t seem that far off.
What, so what? The people of one kingdom and two other guys are not to be taken representatives for a far bigger area.
See, I've said that TWICE, but I've also said that the lack of evidence makes his suggestion possible. You seem to be taking the opposite route by suggesting that there's enough evidence to prove his theory incorrect when you have provided nothing of the sort.
The term I´m having the biggest problem with is actually the term stereotype European. What the hell should that actually be? The only thing that could come close to be labeled as European stereotype is the occidental moral philosophy that somehow is part of all the different cultures within Europe.
Oh, please, like people don't think European when they see a small hamlet like Lyneel. You don't look at Mihawk and think he's representative of some European country or other? Zoro does not come across as Japanesque to you?
Stereotypes are not inherently negative if they're not used to define people in a negative fashion.
Who determines these stereotypes? I have my doubts that it is done by Europeans themselves.
Well, yes, that's usually the way that stereotypes work. If people could determine their own stereotypes, then the Jews would have had a lot less trouble over the past centuries. Blacks as well.
And complaining about this comes across as being completely asinine, it's not like it's a negative stereotype.
Huh, what does Morgan´s jaw have to do with germanic references?
Well, I'll have to say that it's the umlaut myself.
That and the fact that there was a German commerce raider named Mowe (or Moewe depending upon the writer) during World War I.
I always thought that his hat was more a The Three Musketeers reference then anything else. After all, he is a swordsman so that connection doesn´t seem that far off.
Of course, the crosses, the coffin, the candles, and what-not doesn't make a Vampire Hunter D reference that unreasonable either.
At any rate, you see it as a French hat, voodzik sees it as a Spanish hat, and I see it as something else entirely.
At any rate, you see it as a French hat, voodzik sees it as a Spanish hat, and I see it as something else entirely.
it's french AND spanish. this hat was very used in the XVIIth century in spain and france. people wearing them were basically nobles and muskeeters.
i'd like to say more about it but i suck in history.
EDIT: this hat was also used in italy i think
EDIT2: and no matter what you think, mihawk is OBVIOUSLY a reference to the european XVIIth century's nobility or chevalry
See, I've said that TWICE, but I've also said that the lack of evidence makes his suggestion possible. You seem to be taking the opposite route by suggesting that there's enough evidence to prove his theory incorrect when you have provided nothing of the sort.
I got that the first time already. I just responded to your so what question?
Oh, please, like people don't think European when they see a small hamlet like Lyneel. You don't look at Mihawk and think he's representative of some European country or other? Zoro does not come across as Japanesque to you?
You don´t seem to get what I´m saying. There´s a difference between stereotype European and coming from a European country. Mihawk doesn´t look stereotype European, but to me he looks as he has french and spanish characteristics. I repeat French and Spanish. France and Spain are just a part of Europe but they don´t determine the "Stereotype European".
It´s just like saying that some cowboy from Texas is THE stereotype US American.
I hope I was able to explain it better this time where I was aiming at.
Stereotypes are not inherently negative if they're not used to define people in a negative fashion.
There is not such a thing as using stereotypes in a non-negative fashion to define people through stereotypes. I´ve witnessed that myself as a Yugoslavian that was born and raised in Germany. People think they are nice if they try to define my with the positive stereotypes they take granted for Yugoslavia. However I find it insulting to be defined before people even know my personality, even if I get defined as something positive, I find it very insulting and problematic because it makes people appear narrow minded.
Well, yes, that's usually the way that stereotypes work. If people could determine their own stereotypes, then the Jews would have had a lot less trouble over the past centuries. Blacks as well.
Agreed.
And complaining about this comes across as being completely asinine, it's not like it's a negative stereotype.
Well, that´s that what I just said above. To me there´s isn´t such a thing as non-negative stereotypes. It´s not the way how it gets used it is the fact that it gets used to define somebody that is the problem. At least it´s like that for me and almost all of my friends. If you´ve experienced that a lot, you know that it is a serious problem. Even if people just want to be nice to you, they do nothing but hurt your feelings with it.
Well, I'll have to say that it's the umlaut myself.
That and the fact that there was a German commerce raider named Mowe (or Moewe depending upon the writer) during World War I.
Oh, you were talking about the word Möwe written on it. (Ivotas = :banghead: )
I thought you were talking about something like having a strong steel chin is some sort of stereotype that germans receive outside of Germany. Well ok, then I take the question back.
BTW, since we´re at the term Möwe, just in case you didn´t know. Möwe is the german word for Seagull.
Of course, the crosses, the coffin, the candles, and what-not doesn't make a Vampire Hunter D reference that unreasonable either.
Well I don´t see why it has to be specifically Vampire Hunter D. You don´t even have to know Vampire Hunter D (like I don´t do) to think of vampires or Dracula himself by looking at the coffin, the canles and the crucifix.
At any rate, you see it as a French hat, voodzik sees it as a Spanish hat, and I see it as something else entirely.
I never said I see it as French hat. I said it reminds me of a Musketeer hat. There´s a difference in that. France and Spain are both roman countries so there might be a connection of the clothing style there
EDIT: It seems like igalsfy already answered that one while I was typing this whole thing.
To me Mihawk looks mostly french with a little spainish. I don't really see the "vampire" in him. But that's just my opinion.
You don´t seem to get what I´m saying. There´s a difference between stereotype European and coming from a European country. Mihawk doesn´t look stereotype European, but to me he looks as he has french and spanish characteristics. I repeat French and Spanish. France and Spain are just a part of Europe but they don´t determine the "Stereotype European".
Uh, Lvneel is the only country outside Grand Line to have a "king", and a true EUROPEAN KING at that, not Alabastia's Pharaoh or Drum's Czar. Hence, we get a European feel from East Blue, much like a "New World American" feel from East Blue. Obviously, there's going to be cross fertalization of styles and such; Gold Roger's attire is a good example.
There is not such a thing as using stereotypes in a non-negative fashion to define people through stereotypes. I´ve witnessed that myself as a Yugoslavian that was born and raised in Germany. People think they are nice if they try to define my with the positive stereotypes they take granted for Yugoslavia. However I find it insulting to be defined before people even know my personality, even if I get defined as something positive, I find it very insulting and problematic because it makes people appear narrow minded.
God, I would have expected you of all people to be intolerant when it comes to sterotypes. Y'know a great deal of Japan runs on this sort of stuff? I'm white and a Philippino, but people think I'm Mexican because I have a huge 'fro and I'm OBVIOUSLY not Asian. Plus, there's a ton of Mexicans where I live.
That's not a big deal. Sure, people make the mistake, but I correct them and no harm done. Disregarding a theory about a fictional people because you feel uneasy about being targeted indirectly by sterotypes is a conjecture only attainable by a small degree of paranoia. That's not the Ivotas I read all the time.
I never said I see it as French hat. I said it reminds me of a Musketeer hat. There´s a difference in that. France and Spain are both roman countries so there might be a connection of the clothing style there
EDIT: It seems like igalsfy already answered that one while I was typing this whole thing.
Eh, I see a great deal of Spanish, French, and Hungarian in Mihawk, but it really is difficult to tell. I saw Captain Hook in Peter Pan and assumed he was Spanish, but people tell me he's French. Euck.
God, I would have expected you of all people to be intolerant when it comes to sterotypes.
I´m sorry to ask so provocative but did you actually read my post or did you just catch a word here a word there and then put it together to fit with your own views? Because I most definitely am intolerant to stereotypes as I´ve explained in exactly that paragraph you´ve been replying to.
I really don´t get what your trying to say. As I said, to me there is not such a thing as non-negative usage of stereotypes. If people use a pre-set frame to define a person before they know his/her personality then this is something that I have a huge problem with. It is insulting because it ignores the personality of the being somebody wants to interact with. This is something I can´t find positive no matter from what angle I look at it. And actually I think this opinion of mine was clear in my last post.
Sorry if sound a bit angry but it´s hard to be calm when I get blamed for something that I never said. So let me ask you, why do you think that I´m tolerant to stereotypes? Because my entire post should have told you that the exact opposite is the case.
Now you too can remember.
Pronounce with me:
SPAN-DINOSAUR
I know the discussion's moved way past this, but I had to bring up how brilliant that was.
Kind of on-topic:
To me, Lyneel appears to be a stereotypical European village with distinct Russian overtones.
You know, I didn't even notice that until you pointed that out… and I'm from Russia. I'm actually glad Oda got the Russian village look as well as the damn onion domes – I don't think that particular style of wooden building existed outside Russia, and much fewer people recognize it than the look pf St. Basil's. (By the way, Ivan the Terrible had the architect of St. Basil's killed to ensure that that looks stayed unique.) It was at least distinctive to the general area, separate from the Western "European" look. And yes, that term's problematic, but if you line up some typically "European"-looking village next to "Asian," "African," and "Native American" ones, I think you'd be able to judge the general influence on each. I interpret the terms in that broad sense, personally.
France and Spain are just a part of Europe but they don´t determine the "Stereotype European".
If you'll look, I said that the French were an example of the Stereotypical European, not the only type. The Spanish were also an example of a Mediterranean culture.
There is not such a thing as using stereotypes in a non-negative fashion to define people through stereotypes.
Yes, but you're blending the discussion here. I'm speaking of stereotypes as a literary device, not as a guideline for how to treat other people.
Stereotypes in and of themselves are not necessarily a bad thing, it's part of the way the human mind works. The main thing is to not let stereotypes determine your actions towards others.
I never said I see it as French hat. I said it reminds me of a Musketeer hat. There´s a difference in that.
So when you said Musketeer, I'm not supposed to think of the French?
You know, I didn't even notice that until you pointed that out… and I'm from Russia. I'm actually glad Oda got the Russian village look as well as the damn onion domes --
The striped domes are what put me first in mind of it, but the interlaced housing and the dress that we see a few people in (that one farmer when Norland is talking to the children in particular) is really what made me feel that it had a medieval Russian influence.
If you'll look, I said that the French were an example of the Stereotypical European, not the only type. The Spanish were also an example of a Mediterranean culture.
Exactly. They are an example of Mediterranean culture but not a European Stereotype. To me European stereotype is something that stands representative for all Europeans. I hope you understand the difference I make here.
Yes, but you're blending the discussion here. I'm speaking of stereotypes as a literary device, not as a guideline for how to treat other people.
Hmm, I somehow don´t see the difference between the two. Some elaboration would be helpful.
Stereotypes in and of themselves are not necessarily a bad thing, it's part of the way the human mind works. The main thing is to not let stereotypes determine your actions towards others.
And that´s exactly the problem, it does determine the action towards others even if people think they are friendly. Believe me I experienced that a lot.
So when you said Musketeer, I'm not supposed to think of the French?
You can think whatever you want. However at first the Musketeers are swordsmen, which was the actual point I made. You took it down the nationality road, I was just speaking about the most obvious connection with them to Mihawk and that´s not the hat it´s the swordmanship. The hat is just the visual reference.
True they are frenchmen but that´s not the point, because even if they would be spanish they would still be swordsmen. You can take the hat as just french if you like but as igalsfy already said it, it is not a France only clothing style. I guess that was the part were you´ve been misinformed.