Topic for discussion of the 4th episode (it is good that we keep them separate so that those that do not wish do not get spoiled)
Title: The Pirates Are Coming
Directed by: Emma Sullivan
Written by: Tiffany Greshler & Tom Hyndman
Episode 4 (The Pirates Are Coming) - Discussion
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I'm going to be honest here, I enjoyed the past 3 episodes so far (with 2 being the best) and this one felt like it dropped the ball.
Garp and Coby's little game went off for too long. Kuro's whole thing went on for a little too long and also ended abruptly. Killing off Merry and leaving Kaya all alone might work for the realistic tone but honestly speaking I can kind of see it as a really, really surreal move to make. If we are going for realism here and doing character dive, Usopp made being a liar his whole personality and knows the pain of his mother and him waiting for his father to return. It felt so..."let's get this done and over with" that he just...leaves? There's no one to take care of Kaya and she will be all alone. Luffy would have noticed that because a core part of him is him not wanting people to be alone, like...she just lost everything...though? In the manga we had Merry and the Usopp pirates(which annoys me that THEY were removed).Also, this really irks me for a while now but the villages have felt so dead so far. Baratie will surely change that (fingers crossed) but beyond the big set pieces and nice locations...everything just feels like a backdrop compared to the life it used to carry. Instead of using screentime and pacing to develop and make the places they arrived in feel alive, I've noticed said time is allocated to stuff like Marines/Buggy segments that, while good to have, can really be argued as wholly unnecessary. I know that Oda is a fan of GoT and Hollywood tries to do that "let us show 3-4 perspective in our series" instead of a more focused cast approach in recent years. However, when you are adapting a series that was already jam PACKED with content and still try to shove in content that were not there or is only relevant years down the road, the pacing suffers.
This series has been enjoyable so far if not for the usual Hollywood theatrics the industry keeps pulling as if they have zero trust in the audience's capabilities to stay invested. Orange Town was great, Shells was fun but Syrup was a killjoy for me. Don't get me wrong, it was a lot of fun because it felt like a good change of pace with the horror/thriller take and a more tim burton-esque type of thing but it was also all over the place. I like Garp, I like the Coby screen time but I also dislike how much each of the locations felt like a checkpoint so far and how manga characters such as Orange town's mayor and the dog and Usopp's bond with the Syrup kids became irrelevant when ALOT of where the characters come from and the crises in each place have to do with their communities.
And controversial takes but Inaki still hasn't grown on me and I can see why he won't work for people 4 episodes in. The rubber CG is still pretty bad here and there. Another controversial take that will get me sent all the hate but yeah, I can see why current day Oda that cares a lot more about his grand worldbuilding and plotline would approve and be satisfied with this because his current day writing has been reflective on his own thoughts on his side characters and characterization.
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Definietely worst episode so far. Dragged on, and the dark setting was boring as hell. Merry's death had zero impact - what was the point? Usopp's story arc was handled poorly, but it wasn't anything special in the manga either so whatever.
Also Garp is easily the worst adapted character so far. He has no charisma and is missing his "free crazy grandpa" side.
Zoro's flashback was also mid, but once again, it wasn't anything special in the manga either, but still, they should have elevated it, not make worse.
All in all this just felt like some generic mid netflix show instead of One Piece.
First two episode were golden, third one was good too.
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I agree that this episode was probaably the weakest so far. Zoro's flashback being here made sense for pacing and I wouldn't say it's worse than what the manga did but it's not as good as the animes handling of it. There was also a few cinematography shots that I didn't like.
Usopp's character also felt underutilised despite this being his arc By the end of it , it didn't feel like Usopp had a reason to actually join them and with his relationship with Kaya actually being romantic in this version it felt like him staying to help her may have made more sense.
Also they really did go ahead with the Garp is Luffy's Grandpa reveal now. That's kinda wild. Hopefully now that this has happened they can drop the facade a little and have Garp act more like his manga counterpart.
Kuro also escaping at the end was a surprise. I wonder if he'll show up again?
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Usopp definitely draws the short straw here. Without Jango to stop, he doesn't have a big moment in the same way. I guess he stays to protect Kaya? And fires at Kuro, allowing the girls to temporarily escape? I would've much preferred a bank shot or actual sniping of some kind that genuinely allows him to share in the victory. Dude is super charming but Usopp still needs to have a touch of relevance.
I'll never stop laughing at Zoro getting thrown in the flashback well.
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This episode is kinda weak. The use of We Are when they are finally aboard the Going Merry made me teary eyed, though.
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The weirdest moment in the entire series for me was the scene with Usopp presenting his Jolly Roger, and it had a nose on it. Like why add that detail when there isnt anything special about Usopps nose in this version? i mean craniums dont have noses, so what was up?
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Well this one was a slower one.
For starters, Zoro's attempts to get out of the well are used to show his backstory - given its manga length, it had to be somewhere and I think it was a highlight. What surprised me was the fact that Merry's body was in there with them.....because he's just dead. Rather dark and given the horror-esque atmosphere, someone had to be on the chopping block for Kuro's plan.
Usopp sort of takes a backside in his own debut battle, he gets Kaya away but fires like one shot at Kuro? No moment of trying to get back up, not using his knowledge of the village to help get the win....it's a bit disappointing. I think, at least in this episode, Usopp is the one that hasn't "fit" yet because of this, and losing the kids really stings. On the flip side they show up noticably disappointed/upset that his own father spent more time with Luffy than him, not sure it will go anywhere.
Zoro continues to have the best action scenes because the battle with the Meowbans was pretty cool. Kuro's motion effects were a little hokey to get so serious but points for still ending the fight with Gum Gum Bell.
This episode also has the relation between Luffy and Garp revealed (good ending stinger) but slight nitpick - Helmeppo mentions Garp by name in front of Luffy earlier so maybe if he said "Vice-Admiral" it'd keep the reveal until the end?
Then at the end when they're all hanging out in the Merry Usopp starts being more like Usopp (assuring himself as captain and bsing), Zoro and Nami laugh, it's good stuff. Wish he had more of a presence in the earlier scenes. -
I would have liked to see Usopp get to shine a bit more here and a bit more emphasis on Merry before his death. I like the idea of him dying and the ship being dedicated to him, though.
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I loved this episode. They went for a more suspenseful tone and I here for it. Kuro stole the episode for me. The actor did a great job conveying his menace. Reading some of the comments, I can understand folks not liking Usopp not getting a moment. But, in my mind he did. He didn't run away and did everything in his power to help Kaya.
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@Nectar said in Episode 4 (The Pirates Are Coming) - Discussion:
I loved this episode. They went for a more suspenseful tone and I here for it. Kuro stole the episode for me. The actor did a great job conveying his menace. Reading some of the comments, I can understand folks not liking Usopp not getting a moment. But, in my mind he did. He didn't run away and did everything in his power to help Kaya.
his "i wont run away" moment had very little impact because the show had toned down the cowardly side of Usopps character and we had never really seen him run away that much at that point.
the actors who played Sham and Buchi stole the show for me. They were simply hilarious lol
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It seems like most consider this episode the weakest of the bunch so far, and I tend to agree, though I still had fun. No Jango is a crying shame, since he is easily the most memorable and entertaining antagonist of this arc. I guess the hypnosis plot was deemed to complicated for the two episodes they had planned for this arc? In general, Kuro's plan was simplified, no pirates attacking the village or anything, which makes the plot easier to handle in a shorter timeframe, but it also makes it less well-planned. I mean, Kuro's original plan was quite convoluted, but it made at least sense - have his crew slaughter the village in order to hide that Kaya was the real target all along and that Beauregard was behind the attack. In this version, however, Kaya would just be incidentally murdered in her mansion at the day of her 18th birthday and I guess Kuro was just hoping that nobody would find that suspicious?
On the flipside, the Nyaban siblings were more fun than in the anime imo. Captain Kuro was also done generally well, loved his rant when he was searching for Kaya. He also made a very appropriate villain for a kind of creepier setting. I remember the anime also added a scene in which, after he had attacked Merry, he sneaked into Kaya's bedroom and held his knifes to her throat while she was sleeping, which I always thought was really creepy. Due to the closed space his fight with Luffy was happening in, I thought his powers didn't really come across as well, however. And sadly, there was no scene of Kuro killing his subordinates and making Luffy really mad.
In general, I think what bothered me a little is that they really left out the strong emotional beats of this arc, which Usopp suffered the most from. I generally like that they are giving Koby's storyline so much focus and turning it into the B-plot of the show, and also that they gave Kaya more of a bond with the crew and more character development of her own, but it completely removed the focus from Usopp, who almost seemed like a secondary character in his own arc.
Aside from the beginning scene of episode 3 and his general relationship with Kaya, I didn't really feel like we got to know the guy. No Usopp pirates removed the idea that Usopp spent his whole life playing pretend pirate, and thus it also left out his resolution at the end of the arc to disband the Usopp pirates to set out to sea and become a real pirate. In this version, he really doesn't come to this conclusion on his own, and why would he? He didn't really fight or defeat any of the pirates (because Jango was left out), he wasn't beaten to a pulp and yet kept on fighting for his village and for Kaya - he just spend a night hiding from some creepy murderer in a mansion. When I read the arc in the manga or watch it in the anime, I completely buy that the events lead Usopp to come to a self-realization about himself that leads to his decision to go out to sea and become a real pirate. In this version, I don't really get that at all.
The actor did a good job, but I felt they neither very effectively established that Usopp was a coward and a liar to begin with, nor did they effectively display his resolution to stop the pirates no matter what, which is really what makes the other Strawhats respect him as a person so much.
All of this sounds pretty negative, but I didn't dislike the episode at all. I think I gave it a 4-star rating last night, but a 3 star rating would probably be more appropriate after thinking about it some more. Still, it was a fun episode and an entertaining watch. These episodes are entertaining and well-done and imo you really start to slowly fall in love with the Strawhats around this point, just like you did in the manga around this point.
Also, instrumental version of "We Are" at the end, what else is there to say?
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Kuro's initial plan was to poison her and have it look like illness but after Merry was killed and Luffy drank the poison, he kind've just gave up and went for murder.
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I liked Zoro’s child actor a lot. Think he shows better emotion than current age Zoro. I wish it wasn’t in the episode though. felt like it messed with the flow. Don’t know an appropriate place it could’ve been though. Maybe if it was utilized with the Mihawk fight, but feel like we should know Kuina before that happens.
Siam and Butchie looked so silly in their costumes. Shame because almost everything else is on point in terms of costume and set design. Want to give the Fishmen more time before fully evaluating them.
Their fight with Zoro was really cool too, but kept being bothered how Zoro didn’t use the 3 sword style in the fight. Know it’s silly and might not be practical in live action but especially with the flashback emphasizing it’s importance it’s been nice if he used the sword.
The fight with Kuro bothered me. Usopp should’ve been braver Iono in protecting Kaya and be more active in stopping Kuro. Don’t think it was played out well enough. Plus, Luffy was suppposed to be able to keep up with Kuro’s speed, or at least attack him while speeding, not when he’s about to move fast. Also felt like Kuro could’ve/should’ve done a lot more harm to not just Luffy but felt like he could’ve killed Kaya/Nami/Usopp when he had the chance.
Didn’t like how the Marines plot played out. Felt like Koby should’ve gone back to help/arrest the Kuro pirates at least. Them not being captured made no sense here given they were doing crimes. Just because Koby didn’t capture Luffy then doesn’t mean just leaving the criminals to pirates. Curious where the story goes with Garp and co. chasing them though I guess. The episodes are pretty exhausting to go through, especially in a binge.
Laughed a lot at Luffy pointing out how he’s captain when Kaya/Usopp were saying their goodbyes. I am bothered though about Kaya going to be a doctor when the shipyard does need someone to run it, especially since Merry died and no one was shown to be a successor. Feels like a clunky inherited will ball drop here. Lack of shipyard takeover bugged me more than I care to admit, though maybe inheritance is something hitting more personally as of late. At least set up Kaya wants to be a doctor to take care of Usopp’s wounds if he becomes hurt which was a motivation stated in the original story or something instead of if coming out of nowhere. -
Sadly found episodes 3 and 4 a bit meh.
After spending most of episode 2 in Buggy's tent, spending most of the next 2 in Kaya's Mansion (As nice as the set design was) is just making the show feel rather small and sparse.
The cast is still pretty much nailing it, although Zoro could do with being a touch less badass all the time, and I liked Kuro, Siam and Butchie (Especially Siam and Butchie), but once again, the Black Cat pirates being reduced to 3 members is making the show feel so small. At least Buggy had a crew (Even though they did just disappear between scenes).Hopefully the show gets good again from here.
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the worst adaptation so far
created their own version of the story and it fucking sucks.
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Just saw ep 3 and 4. Loved them.. They turned it into some kind of horror story, and it really worked with the format. Zoro's flashback was perfect too.
On another topic, this is how you know @Greg is involved with the show: the deaths are actually sticking.
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Lotta things that were off about this episode, but I still enjoyed it.
As others have said, the Kuro chase went on too long, and then the whole story arc ended very abruptly. Still, another interesting take on the Kuro fight, making him go full Freddy Krueger.
It was kind of random for them to drop Zoro's backstory in the middle of Usopp's arc, but I guess they had to fit it somewhere (haven't seen the Mihawk episode yet, but wouldn't it have made more sense to put it there?)
And I guess Merry really is dead. Oh well. Long live Going Merry.
Oh yeah, and we're doing the Garp reveal already. Guess it was inevitable with how much screen time he was getting.
Welp, bring on Baratie and hopefully less pervy Sanji.
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Well, some good, some bad. I'm s bit disappointed in how they handled some of this story arc. One of the parts that really hit me the most as a new fan was when Usopp was trying to save Kaya but ended up getting shot, finding himself in a situation where he may have just lost his only friend. That seemed like one of those important moments that you wouldn't want to mess with.
I don't mind the kids being left out though.
I like Usopp's actor, but he needs a bit more humor. -
I liked the episode and the Syrup arc as a whole, which is a big thing considering how boring I find it originally (I even enjoyed Kaya, a character I find impossibly dull in the manga). For the first time ever I might actually remember Sham and Bucchi names.
The fighting scenes didn't turn me off like the ones on the first 2 episodes and, like I mentioned on the previous episode chapter, we finally got a location that has many scenarios (the first 2 episodes gave me the feeling I was watching a theater play instead of a television series).
As I was hoping, we FINALLY got a shot of the open blue seas when the crew set on the Merry. It was really bothering me how so far the ocean felt like a puddle and everything felt too greyish instead of blue. Might sound like a nitpick, but I think that counts a lot considering it's a series about the freedom of piracy (so the vastness of the ocean is needed to convey that feeling).The sudden change on the plot with Garp and Koby being on Syrup Village got me excited on the last chapter and I am still looking forward to it. It's nice to have this big changes since otherwise things might get boring for the old fans who have read and watched this story play a thousand times. Still not a fan of Garp's depiction in the series, but that might change once he and Luffy meet - I assume it will be the scene that will clearly convey Garp's personality.
My only gripe here is really how little characterization and relevance Usopp got. The beginning of the episode had him deciding to not run anymore, but unless you knew him from the manga/anime I doubt anyone got the idea that Usopp is supposed to be super cowardly. If you were paying attention, you could see that he didn't step up in some key moments, but I doubt anyone would notice that unless they were already specifically looking for it.
He also barely existed in this episode at all, even though this was supposedly his arc. -
I've been thinking about this version's Kuro's plan.
See in the original his plans to do this on Syrup worked because it was an out of the way small village with little visitors. I don't think you get the same effect when the island in live-action is now known for shipbuilding + has a shipyard.
There's no Jango so I'm going to assume Kuro brainwashed or convinced Morgan he killed him....or maybe just faked his death that Morgan got greedy and took the credit (was it explained). But the kicker is Zoro is the one that says he looks familar, which I thought about but is that so odd? This version's Zoro is much bounty-focused. It just made me think that even though Kuro did his plan, I don't think both versions accounted for the stray bounty posted flying around. Like I'm sure the WG recalls a poster if someone is captured/killed by they can't get every copy floating around lol.
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@DollarScholar said in Episode 4 (The Pirates Are Coming) - Discussion:
The weirdest moment in the entire series for me was the scene with Usopp presenting his Jolly Roger, and it had a nose on it. Like why add that detail when there isnt anything special about Usopps nose in this version? i mean craniums dont have noses, so what was up?
Any takes on this? it still confuses me lol
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@DollarScholar He acknowledges he's a liar? A nod to pinocchio or simply to manga Usopp?
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@danie said in Episode 4 (The Pirates Are Coming) - Discussion:
@DollarScholar He acknowledges he's a liar? A nod to pinocchio or simply to manga Usopp?
The nose on the flag is kinda tiny though, nothing like manga usopp.
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@DollarScholar said in Episode 4 (The Pirates Are Coming) - Discussion:
@danie said in Episode 4 (The Pirates Are Coming) - Discussion:
@DollarScholar He acknowledges he's a liar? A nod to pinocchio or simply to manga Usopp?
The nose on the flag is kinda tiny though, nothing like manga usopp.
Well, if that's how you look at it then, yeah. It is pointless.
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I like this better than the 3rd episode. Stairs death taken out and Merry's death are some inconsequential changes. Nothing crazy.
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Re-watched this one yesterday, I liked it a lot more than the third one. Kuro's plan seems pretty wonky but Alexander Maniatis (the guy is only 30 years old!?) aced the character. The fights at the end were also great.
Another nice touch was the way Zoro's flashback was woven into his escape from the well. The way Kuina and Zoro swore their oath was a bit cringy but the rest was fine and that variation of the main theme for Kuina's funeral was BEAUTIFUL!
The low-key highlight of the episode is when Luffy asks Zoro how he found him and Zoro replies that he thought he was going in the direction of Kaya's mansion (which of course is the exact opposite).
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Fourth episode, I do not understand why they chose to show the Zoro and Kuina flashback during Usopps arc?
I understood the struggle Luffy had when he was stuck in the tank full of water and kinda drowning again, that they decided to show the flashback of him at sea with the sea beast.
But this, I do not understand, they should have placed this part of the flashback after or before the fight between Mihawk.
Not sure if I am the only one who has this problem, but what's done is done.
I like the addition of the love-story between Usopp and Kaya, it's something which I hope to see once the manga concluded, a page of him and Kaya. Merry staying dead is a surprise to me, I liked this change.
Garp being revealed to be Luffy's grandfather so early on works for the live action quite well. A friend who never saw One Piece, was surprised with that ending to episode 4.
I hope episode 5 has balloon Luffy in it to reflect the canon balls back to Garp. I think we will not see him throw canon balls, but I hope I am wrong about that.Even though I rated the episode 4/5 I feel like it's with episode 3 one of the weakest episodes so far.
SW-3170-8630-8341
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@DollarScholar probably if they don't do it they risk an uproar from the community but if they do it its not that much of a big deal in comparison if they don't
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@The-Light-of-Shandora -- I think it's because
(full season spoilers)
That doesn't mean it's not clunky as hell, but that seems to be the thought process that led to that decision.
