Chapter 390 "Return Fire" Discussion

Buccaneer

@omae:

I just wanna know how Kumadori uses his staff.

I also hope it's not as simple as X VS X. Oda can and has done better. One thing to keep in mind, we saw this kind of scenario before in Skypiea where everyone stood up to Ener and well…heh....yeah, didn't go so well.

I wonder how he'll handle it. Those gates are too tempting. Logic would dictate they're not gonna stay together for a huge fight, and don't forget, the bridge still needs to come down or Kiwi, her sis and FF have been struggling for nothing ^O^

Plus don't forget Galley-La is now up to snuff.

The best is yet to come.

Like I said in the spoiler thread, it may be just "the same ol thing," but I really think that's the best way. More than 2 on 2 would get messy, and 2 on 1 would just be weak. I'm hoping CP9 decides to "have fun." Yeah, now that really is cliche, but I don't mind going with (what I think) works well.

The bridge situation is tough. It's a little hard for me to see CP9 not taking the initiative and using Rokushiki to come over to kick ther asses.

leokeren

A big no.
usopp has to prove himself worthy to be a straw hat. He has to beat a government agent by himself.
my best bet would still be the colour spread, with blueno and robin removed, chopper moved next to nami, and spandam moved to the most right.

Buccaneer

Being a Straw Hat was never a strength issue. Though I do agree that he should have a duel of his own. Partly 'cause of his pride.

CosmicDebris

Usopp doesn't have to prove anything. He proved himself worthy a long, long time ago as far as I'm concerned. But maybe he has to prove it to One Piece fans who still don't respect anything but brute strength.
I just don't think it would be much fun if he doesn't get his own man to fight here. There's a lot at stake, and I want to see that weapon in action.

Zeefer

You can argue all you want about what you feel Usopp needs to do, or how you feel this or that has to happen. I'm just going by all the available evidence. And all the available evidence (not 100% proof positive of anything mind you) seem to indicate the match ups as outlined by MasterDee.

CaptainAWB1

Yeah. If he's going to call himself Sogeking, he's gonna need to use incredible sniper a lot in a big battle. Even though he shown those skills in the past, he's just called himself the king of snipers, so he'll have to prove it again.

Satsuki

Ahh, Oda certainly loves his spreads, doesn't he?

Now that the Straw Hats have gathered together, things are REALLY gonna heat up. And I look forward to it immensely. (and yes, I'm assuming the giants threw Usopp so he could fly like that)

Herackles

ok, imagine three on three fights

The strawhat trio, Luffy, Zoro and Nami vs the water7 trio, Lucchi, Kaku and Kalifa. Zoro needs to tell them how fired they are.

Then there's Sogeking (the strawhat's second captain), Sanji (Zoro's counter part) and Chopper's new form vs the other three Cp9 clowns.

Ral

The spread was great, but I kind of wanted to see Luffy try to fight the rest of CP9 by himself for a little bit.

joekido the Second

I would want Usopp to pummel Kaku like he was suppose to back in the warehouse.

Now I'm a realism person, every speculation and prediction will olny make me look stupid. I remamber before chapter 360 came, there was a spoiler that confirmed Usopp being taken hostage along with Franky.

Everyone dismiss the spoiler as fake because Usopp was not figthing Kaku like he was suppose to. When Kaku sank the ship, everyone was like "WOAH! Usopp's gonna go barsark! Kaku will get impact dialed! A battle will rage!" but sadly when the chapter 360 spoiler came out, everyone was like "No, nah that's fake, something need to come down in the warehouse frist".
But oh well, the spoiler was right, Usopp was taken hostage instand of figthing Kaku.

I won't be suprised if Usopp did not figth Kaku, if he does, that is something I'll wait for.

I do support a UsoppxKaku fight, but I must not get hyper about it or make any speculation untie it's confirmed. I won't be suprised if the next chapter is "Sogeking Vs. Kaku".

Razza

I want to see Ussop vs Kaku, how he destroyed Going Merry will really fire him up.

Sanze

man !! what a great chapter
Robin crying + that last page …. unbelievable

now ... is there anyone here, who got another bad thing to say about Robin ? *sharpening my knives …. anyone ??

thanks for the chapter and the translation

Shinogana

The fight will probably happen on the bridge. I can picture the bridge suddenly falling down, and without any hesitation, both sides converge on the bridge. The bridge is a good flat, open area with the danger of falling off the sides or through a recently made whole into the void below. The fighting would end up mixed. There would be times of one on one fighting, and times of group fighting. As people get thrown around, they may change opponents and strategies. This would allow all the SH to make use of their abilities. As someone said, Nami's clima tact seems better suited to larger groups. And this way there may also be some collateral damage to the other SH while she continues to learn how to use the new Clima tact. It probably will have some new one on one abilities as well. Usopp will be able to duck and cover taking shots when he can and occasionally facing off against opponents. And then of course the other SH will be going at it as well. We haven't seen a fight with all of the SH fighting at once in one location yet, so who knows. This is of course all specualtion still.

CaptainAWB1

But who's going to fight the bird? (Sotori, Satori, which was it?)

CosmicDebris

@CaptainAWB1:

But who's going to fight the bird? (Sotori, Satori, which was it?)

That's Hattori. Satori is the round ball priest in Skypiea. XD

CaptainAWB1

I forgot since he hasn't been seen in a little while.

joekido the Second

@Sanze:

man !! what a great chapter
Robin crying + that last page …. unbelievable

now ... is there anyone here, who got another bad thing to say about Robin ? *sharpening my knives …. anyone ??

thanks for the chapter and the translation

"Raise hand" I do. I HOPE ROBIN(Slash)AAAAHHHHH!!!!!! "Me dies"

Robin crying was good, I REALLY want her to change her mind.

If all the CP9 are defeated, and if Oda makes Robin bicthy again I will totally lose it:

"Robin sees all CP9 defeated"

Robin: Go away! Luffy! Don't save me!

"Spandam and guards takes her and Franky away, Luffy and his gang follows them to the other side of the justice gate, a escort ship."

Luffy: Robin!

"Justice gate slams, Luffy gomu gomu no jet gating gun the gate, it broke open"

Luffy: Robin!

Robin: Fuck it Luffy! I said go away!

"The escort ship depart, Luffy and the others bound in the ship and hides untie they reach Impale Down, they fought guards and saved Franky but Robin is not there! So they blew up Impale Down"

Luffy: Robin!

"Robin is still in the escort ship"

Robin: Luffy! Don't save me!

"Luffy and others bound the ship and heads to Marine HQ, there, Luffy and his guys fough thoustands of guards, Luffy face Aokiji and defeated him with his "jet" might. Marine HQ was in ruins, Luffy drags Robin to the escort ship and heads back to Enies Lobby"

Robin: Luffy! I told you not to save me!

Luffy: Shut up Robin

"Robin cried 'let me go!' over and over and over untie they are leaving Enies Lobby in the RM. The buster call chases them, Robin"

Robin: Shit! The buster call! I TOLD YOU NOT TO SAVE ME!!!!!!!!

Luffy: Don't worry leave it to us

"Luffy, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Zoro, Chopper , Franky, Mos, Kiwi, Oimo, Karsee, Franky Family, and the Galley-La made a combine effort to destory the buster call, it was a gas(70's expired term, I know)"

Robin:…...............................WAHHHHH!! I DOUBTED YOU GUYS! DEAR ME!

"Robin cries"

Others: Well DUHHH!!

"Back in Water 7"

Robin: You should've save me!

Others: AAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!!

"They fusteratly tie up Robin untie a new ship was build and ebmark on a new journey, Robin was hualed in and untied. In the sea"

Robin: YOU FUCKERS DON'T HAVE TO SAVE ME!!!

"She use her hana powers to kill everyone and jumped off the ship to sink herself"

THE END

Sorry about that. I don't want Robin like this, I want her to get over it before more fanboys starts to hate her. I love Robin and it's sickens me to see her act that way.

Ubiq

@CosmicDebris:

Usopp doesn't have to prove anything. He proved himself worthy a long, long time ago as far as I'm concerned. But maybe he has to prove it to One Piece fans who still don't respect anything but brute strength.

He has to prove it to himself as well though, his last real fight was back during Arlong.

I wonder how Oda is going to set up the fights; Luffy-Lucci is obvious, but the rest of them, not so much.

What I'd like to see:

Jyabura versus Zoro

Fukurou versus Sanji
Kumadori versus Chopper

I like those two matchups for the potential comedy value, especially Kumadori-Chopper.

Kaku versus Sogeking
Califa versus Nami

mugiwara

Well just read it and god damn I loved this chapter. All the Strawhats gathered for a major showdown. It doesn't get better than this.

My favorite shot of the week. Last panel, page 16. How often do you ever see a villian that seriously sees his ass about to get whooped. I love that Panda bastard.

Green Hair

@CosmicDebris:

Also, I wonder where the Galley-La boys are.

Here.

leokeren

@CosmicDebris:

Usopp doesn't have to prove anything. He proved himself worthy a long, long time ago as far as I'm concerned. But maybe he has to prove it to One Piece fans who still don't respect anything but brute strength.
I just don't think it would be much fun if he doesn't get his own man to fight here. There's a lot at stake, and I want to see that weapon in action.

wrong.
part of the reason why he decided to quit straw hat is because he felt useless and weak( he cannot even guard the money). He need this win more than anyone else.

Nine

@Kaizoku:

I don't think Kaku saw it coming last chapter though…the time doesn't really match up...

I mean while they and Luffy were talking..wasn't he still with the Giants. Then Zoro and Co came up..then at last Soge King showed up...

Also, do you think Zoro can't keep track of his surroundings because he's so excited about the fight that is coming up? Or is he just completely clueless?

Kaku might have been looking at the giants jumping, since the landed in front of Yokozuna in this chapter.

joekido the Second

@leokeren:

wrong.
part of the reason why he decided to quit straw hat is because he felt useless and weak( he cannot even guard the money). He need this win more than anyone else.

She knows that.

But Usopp does need to prove himself that he is not a weakling.

Nine

I believe Lucci won't get involved in this fight.
He doesn't even seem interested in the whole thing.
He'll probably jump in after every CP9 is defeated and beat up the strawhats.

And that's when gear 3rd will come into play.:evil:

Herackles

Sanji hasn't noticed Kalifa yet, suprisingly

WarcoW

@Zeefer:

You can argue all you want about what you feel Usopp needs to do, or how you feel this or that has to happen. I'm just going by all the available evidence. And all the available evidence (not 100% proof positive of anything mind you) seem to indicate the match ups as outlined by MasterDee.

How is that even close to being accurate, when he has one strawhat taking on two CP9 members.
Zoro is cool and all, but even thats a bit too much for him.

Hell two CP9 ers at once would be too much even for the likes of Luffy.

Its still going to be 1v1 as far as i can see, with the three top fighters from the strawhats taking on the three top fighters from the CP9.
Its been foreshadowed ever since they measured Douriki, and we found out that Lucci, Kaku and Jyabura were leagues above the others in physical prowess.

And the comparison between Jyabura and Kaku is very similar to Sanji and Zoro IMO.
Theyr both more or less around the same level of physical strength (20 diff or something) but Jyabura takes it a lot more seriously than Kaku does (Like how Sanji is annoyed at not having a bounty).

Anyway, it ought to be good.

unxeen888

Maybe Nami will be at the back and support all since this is a ROYaL RumBle…... !!! and also there is a chance that Franky maybe will be fighting...... along side with Robin...

game2005

I knew it would be like this. The Straw Hats all assemble themselves, and then TO BE CONTINUED appears… The exciting thing always seems to come in the next chapter.

igalsfy

what about some big, crazy battle royale at first, before the fight splits by itself?

Majek

@KatanaJon1.1:

You saved as your desktop too, right?

many others will as well, when they get better quality

sabret00the

@Kaizoku:

I'm worried about Sanji…I mean there is no way he can take Kaku..and that's who he is standing across from...

Zoro can take Jabura pretty easily...that would make sense from a Wolf vs Wolf standpoint.

i think you underestimate the power of Sanji ALOT, he's > if not = in power to that of Zoro.

Kibagami

Now we're talking Igalsfy

It's most likely going to be a few 1vs1 fights but seeing as they are all together why not make it a party? It is completely unconventional to have huge group battles with major villans, not to mention extremely difficult and complex to draw/animate; Oda would really have to show his creativaty on a different level to do this. Basically I think it would be something totally new in shonen mangas to have a Group vs Group fight. I think Franky will eventually wake up and cause some kind of commotion, maybe even freeing Robin from her sea stone cuffs, and then it will be a pretty evently matched Battle Royale.

In another note I think it's obvious that Usopp will out do himself in this arc; he already turned the tides with his leading the Giants, and now he will fight an assasin of the Government. Usopp now fights with gears (so does Robin in some way) so they are alot stronger than b4, though there is no indication of him using it on the FF when he was attacked, I'm sure he will show his new capabilities in the coming battle. Though with Nami and Usopp being so weak in comparison to these CP9 guys I think the Mugiwara are still out matched unless Franky and/or Robin joins in.

Paulie

I think it's going to be a generic 1 on 1 group of fights. But that's not a bad thing; while it's awesome to see group fights or combination attacks, 1 on 1 is never old and it showcases individual skills quite spectacularly.

Next chapter won't begin the fights; it'll likely be the fights of the FF in their efforts to lower the bridge, and the chapter will end with the bridge being lowered so the SH can fight.

But, there's also somehting else to consider… All of the Straw Hats, except Chopper and Sanji, have long range attacks. It's possible for the SH to just start the battle at long-range before the bridge is lowered.

Ivotas

@Paulie:

But, there's also somehting else to consider… All of the Straw Hats, except Chopper and Sanji, have long range attacks. It's possible for the SH to just start the battle at long-range before the bridge is lowered.

Though Chopper doesnÂ´t have a long range attack, having some distance between him and his opponent is actually very useful for his fighting style. Just think of Brain Point. The biggest weakness of it was that his scope scan needs some time to see the opponents weakness, making him an easy target for the enemy. But if thereÂ´s a distance between him and the enemy he can perform it easily with better chances of being unharmed.

Buccaneer

But they could use Rokushiki to get across very quickly.

Ivotas

That is very true, but only if they consider the scope scan as an attack. For all we know CP9 was standing there since the last two pages of the last chapter and didnÂ´t move a finger through this entire chapter where Luffy was standing and putting his finger in his nose.

So if Chopper would use his scan first they might even think of eat as a weird pose instead of a strong move and therefore donÂ´t use neither Geppou nor Rankyaku to stop Chopper. Just a possilibity.

Malintex_Terek

@sabret00the:

i think you underestimate the power of Sanji ALOT, he's > if not = in power to that of Zoro.

Sorry, you just pulled that statement out of your arse. Sanji's shown himself to be weaker than Zoro, both in power AND in range. Alabastia ring a bell…?

At the most, Sanji = Zoro in power. He makes up for his weakness in brains, though, so everything rounds out.

sabret00the

the strongest bit i did pull outta my arse. but i was making the mere point that neither have been shown to be superiorly stronger (i.e. the better fighter) AT ALL.

PS. did anyone else notice that Nami was gonna take on two jurors by herself

Xephon

Great chapter, I can't wait until the next one where it'll really heat up!

Kokolores

@sabret00the:

the strongest bit i did pull outta my arse. but i was making the mere point that neither have been shown to be superiorly stronger (i.e. the better fighter) AT ALL.

PS. did anyone else notice that Nami was gonna take on two jurors by herself

Yeah, but in the last moment she remembered to stay true to herself and wanted to let Chopper handle them. Still, she seems to get pretty wild our cute selfish navigator, doesn't she. Who knows maybe next time she's the one wanting to fight. I think I'd collapse with laughter if she got herself hold back by luffy.

Greg

Usopp doesn't have to prove anything.

Indeed. What does he have to prove? He freakin' took on Straw-Hat Luffy in a duel.

Praxis

But he still lost. In his mind he still isnt worthy of being a member of the crew. By winning over someone as powerful as a CP9 then he will get it into his head that he isnt that weak. Even in alabaster he didnt really win, chopper effectively won, in skypedia similar event where he didnt really do much to prove himself. Here he is slowly building up that "hey I can do things too." especially considering how he does not consider himself a monster like zoro, sanji or luffy.

Ms. Suave Debonair

@Praxis:

But he still lost. In his mind he still isnt worthy of being a member of the crew. By winning over someone as powerful as a CP9 then he will get it into his head that he isnt that weak. Even in alabaster he didnt really win, chopper effectively won, in skypedia similar event where he didnt really do much to prove himself. Here he is slowly building up that "hey I can do things too." especially considering how he does not consider himself a monster like zoro, sanji or luffy.

O, how you'll be beaten badly by every Usopp fan in this forum! run, run now!!!XD

Raoul

The spread at the end is so sweet!

And rofl @Sogeking's entrance!

Luffies Hat

One of the biggest advantages the strawhats have is that they know a lot of the Cp9ers attacks with the Rokushiki, but Cp9 doesn't know as much about them.

Yoska

Yes, losing to Luffy means one must suck ass… with a condom wrapped around the tongue.

A bit late, late but thanks for the chapter. Things are steadily building up and Oda's getting to his point, someday.

meethz

SogeKing definitely RULED the last spread. Cape, giant slingshot, and all.

Oh, how I want a wallpaper of that last page, so badly.

Giant slingshot.

Pfft.

Mind out of the gutter. Now! XD

uhuyyy

does anyone think that usop may fight one of the major cp9 agent? kaku or jyabura maybe? but I think we'll have a gang fight here, anyone just kick anyone they face 6vs6 that'll be awesome

sabret00the

@Praxis:

But he still lost. In his mind he still isnt worthy of being a member of the crew. By winning over someone as powerful as a CP9 then he will get it into his head that he isnt that weak. Even in alabaster he didnt really win, chopper effectively won, in skypedia similar event where he didnt really do much to prove himself. Here he is slowly building up that "hey I can do things too." especially considering how he does not consider himself a monster like zoro, sanji or luffy.

i largely agree, i still feel though i actually like the dude now (when he's not got much to do and isn't being comic releif) but he has got something to prove, he has to prove that he can fight for the captains dreams. it's one thing to fight and try to undermine your captain but to it's something else to fight for your captain and win. you need to see it a bit like how sanji done it when he was apologising for failing the captain and not getting robin back.

Zeefer

@WarcoW:

How is that even close to being accurate, when he has one strawhat taking on two CP9 members.
Zoro is cool and all, but even thats a bit too much for him.

Reason's/evidence for it:

The symmetry of the match ups, as I already pointed out.

Zoro already defeated Kaku when it comes to swordsmanship - he cut Kaku's tools - the shigan he gave Zoro was simply a lucky shot given to him when he wasn't looking. Zoro doesn't really need a rematch with Kaku. He's already proven himself against Kaku as a swordsman.

Kumadori is a swordsman. He makes for an obvious opponent for Zoro since Zoro always fights the swords men. But he's too weak an opponent (when it comes to douriki) for the likes of Zoro. It'd be no contest, and wouldn't make for a very interesting fight. So throw in Jyabura and it'd be much more of a challenge and more interesting. And it's not like Zoro hasn't done a 2 on 1 before. Back on Usopp's home island, Zoro fought a 2 on 1 against the cat brothers.

The pair up for Kaku, allows Usopp to have his revenge. Having Usopp fight Kaku alone and winning would be a little too farfetched. So teaming up with Sanji to fight Kaku makes it less farfetched for Usopp to defeat Kaku. I could see Usopp delivering the final dramatic blow, while Sanji is down for the count (who knows what kind of DF powers Kaku may have gained?) to a weakened Kaku in this sort of fight.

Chopper fighting Fukuro makes sense since they're both analyzer types. They both know how to gauge the strength and weaknesses of their opponents.

And Lucci vs Luffy is way too obvious.

@WarcoW:

Hell two CP9 ers at once would be too much even for the likes of Luffy.

How do you know that? Luffy just handed Blueno (the fourth strongest of the CP9) his ass to him on a plate quite easily after having gone Gear 2nd. And Luffy will be fighting Lucci who's like twice the strength of the next strongest CP9er when it comes to douriki. It'll be like he's fighting two Kaku's (or more).

So in this way it also makes sense for Zoro to have a 2 on 1 matchup. Having zoro defeat only Kaku and having Luffy defeat Lucci (somone akin to two Kaku's or more in strength) would imply that Luffy is far stronger than Zoro. I don't think Oda wants the strength gap to be that wide between the two.