Chapter 1067: Punk Records

Ivotas

In all honesty, aside from Water Seven up to the point where the secret agents revealed themselves Oda is completely handling CP wrongly. Like herever they go people recognize them respectively they themselves make themselves known. That's not how a governments secret agency is supposed to work.

Just in the real spy's trained for infiltration stand at the place they're dispatched and say "we are the CIA/MI6/KGB, requesting permission to enter". Might aswell have sent a completely law enforcement force it that was the approach.

electricmastro

Kind of ashame Bonney fainted now. I was really starting to get a liking of her bonding with Luffy.

Johnny B. Decent

@Ivotas To be fair, how many people recognize James Bond wherever he goes?

Ivotas

@Johnny-B-Decent said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Ivotas To be fair, how many people recognize James Bond wherever he goes?

I wasn't talking about individuals, I was talking about the organisation itself using the name out in the open as if it's the police or the military.

But if you want to talk about recognizing individuals then how about Stussy? Upon her first introduction she was said to be a big name in the underworld (was she running brothels?). But then she get's revealed to be a CP0 agent and next time we see her is at Mariejois in front of a huge crowd clearly visible to be a member of CP0. That much for the secret cover.

Or how about first time we saw Guernica and company in Dressrosa. Ok, the other guys are wearing masks but still everybody knew who they were when they spoke in front of a public crowd telling the citizens to keep quiet about the Doffy not really stepping down as a king thing. Because holding public speeches while being recognized as a member of a super secret organization is what intelligence agencies do. Let's not beat around the bush, Oda doesn't a have a single clue how to write such characters properly once the surprise reveal has kicked in.

desa

I mean in the context of government agents pretending to do a routine tune up. I think it make sense they would announce themselves because they are using their affiliation to look harmless (like a CIA agent requesting access to a military site).

The weird is them being security guard in Marijoa or making tv appearances.

Robby

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

In all honesty, aside from Water Seven up to the point where the secret agents revealed themselves Oda is completely handling CP wrongly. Like herever they go people recognize them respectively they themselves make themselves known. That's not how a governments secret agency is supposed to work.

CP9 was the only secret one that officially does not exist. since its the bloody assassination group and they can't officially be condoning that sort of thing.

The others are publicly known agencies.

Even Cp0 isn't a secret, its just weird to us readers because it uses Bleach numbering to provide a secret higher tier at 0. But that branch is directly under the world nobles so it having a different numbering makes some sort of sense.

Johnny B. Decent

This post is deleted!

danie

Yeah, i hope their will be at least one new CP0 agent. Lucci, Kaku, and Stussy just aren't doing it for me... I like them just fine but i expected more like the Wano trio from CP0.

zorosempai

Jabra better not be the victim of oda pretending that cp0 and cp9 are not the same thing so he brought back only Lucci, kaku, Spandam, Blueno, Kalifa, but he replaced Jabra and the other guys that fought Chopper and Franky with Stussy and the 3 agents from Wano.

Cyan D. Funk

When Spandam comes back he should be dressed like another of Mick Foley's wrestling gimmicks.

Ivotas

@Robby said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

In all honesty, aside from Water Seven up to the point where the secret agents revealed themselves Oda is completely handling CP wrongly. Like herever they go people recognize them respectively they themselves make themselves known. That's not how a governments secret agency is supposed to work.

CP9 was the only secret one that officially does not exist. since its the bloody assassination group and they can't officially be condoning that sort of thing.

The others are publicly known agencies.

Even Cp0 isn't a secret, its just weird to us readers because it uses Bleach numbering to provide a secret higher tier at 0. But that branch is directly under the world nobles so it having a different numbering makes some sort of sense.

Stussy pretty much contradicts that point as she was undercover (for whatever purpose) until Oda felt the need to unveil that information to us. Not to mention that almost all the characters for the readers have their faces hidden, which pretty much screams 'incognito'.

Funnily enough that's all the first how we saw CP9 in Water Seven. I know, we saw Kaku, Lucci, Kalifa and Blueno before that but at that time we didn't know who they were. CP9 was introduced as masked assassins. Their is clearly similarities about how Oda shows CP9 and CP0. But the one for CP0 just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it. It's as if they are whatever Oda needs them to be.

Robby

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records Stussy pretty much contradicts that point as she was undercover

Because Stussy was undercover.

Doesn't change the fact that the other 8 CP groups are public.

The groups existing is not a secret. Wearing masks to protect their individual identities is a separate matter entirely.

Heck, SWORD is a secret group too and some of its members are super public figures, but them being in SWORD is not. Sometimes you need to be able to lie about who you are or what you're doing when you're dealing with threats to the world.

Ivotas

@Robby said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records Stussy pretty much contradicts that point as she was undercover

Because Stussy was undercover.

Doesn't change the fact that the other 8 CP groups are public.

I'm not talking about CP1-CP8, I'm talking about CP0 specifically. You know the guys, that just introduced themselves as CP0 when requesting permission to make port at Egghead. Also did they just spill the beans that Rob Lucci is on board? The Strawhats surely knew that he was there. If that isn't guesswork but actually because CP0 themselves said that Lucci is there, then putting on a mask is utterly pointless. It's like dude, you just blew your cover yourself. Why would you put on a mask now?

The groups existing is not a secret. Wearing masks to protect their individual identities is a separate matter entirely.

And that's exactly what I'm calling handled badly here. Like we all know that there are real intelligence agencies in real life. But have even met a person KNOWING that they are a secret agent? Usually the don't go out and introduce themselves as CIA/MI6 and whatnot. The existence of the agency is not the secret. But for them to do their thing their wouldn't constantly blow their cover. It's ok, when Luffy does it when jumping out of the cake, because he is dumb and it makes for a good joke. But if supposed intelligence agencies are just as dumb then it creates a bad image.

Heck, SWORD is a secret group too and some of its members are super public figures, but them being in SWORD is not. Sometimes you need to be able to lie about who you are or what you're doing when you're dealing with threats to the world.

Again, that's got nothing to do with what I'm complaining about. Having a public figure be a secret agent is nothing bad. Having a public figure show their SECRET IDENTITY to everyone however is counterproductive. Stussy can be a public figure for all she wants. But then she has to keep her being a CP0 agent a secret from everyone besides her own agency. Because if the public knows about her being a secret agent, the entire purpose to go undercover get's destroyed. I cannot believe that I actually have to explain this very concept to you of all people.

Zhenja

@Md-Martin said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

Now it's becoming clear that the real purpose of having Germa introduce the science of cloning was to segway into Vegapunk making the Sepra's.

Or to reveal that Tashigi is in fact Kuina’s clone

ARTEMlS

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

And that's exactly what I'm calling handled badly here. Like we all know that there are real intelligence agencies in real life. But have even met a person KNOWING that they are a secret agent? Usually the don't go out and introduce themselves as CIA/MI6 and whatnot. The existence of the agency is not the secret. But for them to do their thing their wouldn't constantly blow their cover. It's ok, when Luffy does it when jumping out of the cake, because he is dumb and it makes for a good joke. But if supposed intelligence agencies are just as dumb then it creates a bad image.

You mean intelligence agencies acting like actual intelligence agencies? How absurd! What's next? Demanding that a global regime which somehow managed to survive for almost 1000 years understand this concept and has a properly working secret service which gets shit done - in secrecy? Geez, you have some crazy and lunatic ideas...

Cyan D. Funk

I'm going to guess that a) CP0 is an open secret to all the powers that be in the world who deal with the World Governement on a regular basis, and b) the assumption is that anyone who CP0 introduces themselves to is not going to live long enough to tell anyone else.

Ivotas

@Cyan-D-Funk said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

I'm going to guess that a) CP0 is an open secret to all the powers that be in the world who deal with the World Governement on a regular basis, and b) the assumption is that anyone who CP0 introduces themselves to is not going to live long enough to tell anyone else.

Public knowledge of the agency existing is absolutely fair. Revealing an undercover agents true colors in public not so much. The entire Mariejois scene in itself only functions in the vacuum of this being a fictional story aimed at an audience and not something that in itself is coherent. We see Lucci, Kaku and Stussy's real faces because we all already know who they are. But the one dude that was at Dressrosa is still masked. You know, as if you have to keep his identity hidden from us readers because we don't know yet who that is.

Stussy however doesn't need to protect her identity because we already know who she is. Too bad though that in universe it should have been protected too. "But wait Ivotas, Stussy, Lucci and Kaku don't wear masks" I hear you say. Valid point if it wasn't for the little detail that at the end of this very recent chapter they all put on masks. As a get up to attack an island where Lucci at least has already revealed his identity.

I get your arguments mate and they make sense logically. The problem is that the manga itself doesn't follow your sound logic. They wear no masks when appearing in front of a huge crowd. But when they head out to attack a guy they have revealed themselves to already they put on masks. It just doesn't add up.

ARTEMlS

The very same top agent who interferred with Kaido was the one who himself talked to the regular Dressrosa citizens. They really just are maids-of-all-work for whatever the plot demands. The WG really needs an actual secret service.

Ivotas

@ARTEMlS said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

The very same top agent who interferred with Kaido was the one who himself talked to the regular Dressrosa citizens. They really just are maids-of-all-work for whatever the plot demands. The WG really needs an actual secret service.

Pretty much what I was trying to say. They are all over the place and are whatever Oda needs them to be in that one moment, even at the cost of it not lining up with what we've seen before. CP0 was not supposed to be a branch that uses secret agents for various missions such as gaining undercover intel or assassination? Fair enough. But then don't show them wearing masks to conceal their identiy (like CP9 before them), have one public figure revealed to have been an undercover secret agent and have Lucci the prodigy assassin who likes killing join the group. It's just a mess really.

MetaMario

Genuine question - and this is more because I've had periods where I just get out of One Piece and have to dive back in where's their buzz. Maybe I'm misremembering cover stories but here goes.

I thought CP9 were on the run for their failure right? Yet Lucci (and Kaku, the mild mannered guy who is NOT a justice hound like Lucci) are in CP0, more secret-er than CP9. How did this happen?

spoiler

what of kumadori, fukurou, jabra, ? i legit thought this was a baroque works situation and the defeated all just piece out. I feel like I have severe memory loss.

Johnny B. Decent

No offense, Ivotas, but sometimes you way overanalyze relatively minor details about a shonen. Yes, the Cipher Pol unit isn't very realistic compared to real life intelligence and security agencies....but neither is most any organization in One Piece. Like, no way would any real life analogue to the World Government put up with the Celestial Dragon's bullshit for long. But it's a work of fantastical fiction.

Chams 0

@Zhenja said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Md-Martin said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

Now it's becoming clear that the real purpose of having Germa introduce the science of cloning was to segway into Vegapunk making the Sepra's.

Or to reveal that Tashigi is in fact Kuina’s clone

It would make sense to clone the last survivor of the Shimotsuki bloodline

Ivotas

@Johnny-B-Decent said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

No offense, Ivotas, but sometimes you way overanalyze relatively minor details about a shonen. Yes, the Cipher Pol unit isn't very realistic compared to real life intelligence and security agencies....but neither is most any organization in One Piece. Like, no way would any real life analogue to the World Government put up with the Celestial Dragon's bullshit for long. But it's a work of fantastical fiction.

It really isn't overanalyzation if it's something where the inconsistency is that much in your face. And a fictional universe has to make some proper coherent logic in order to successfully be believable. It does not have to be a 100% reflexion of real life but there has to be a certain degree to which it does it, because otherwise it takes the audience out.

A good story no matter how fantastic the universe will always be applicable to the real world. This is why we can relate to fictional concepts of good and evil, love and hate, guilt and redemption and so on. And why would would be able to relate to a story about shlabon and wadonga because that's non-existing concepts but terms I've just made up by myself to prove a point. And if Oda tries to outkubo Tite Kubo himself by making things follow the direction the plots wind blows that moment, then it is an inconsistency I will call him out on. If we can critisize Kubo for stuff like this, then we can do the same with Oda. Unless of course we're having doublestandards here.

It's your personal choice to ignore those flaws are simply not be bothered by them. Nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean that those flaws are not there in the first place.

Zar

@MetaMario said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

Genuine question - and this is more because I've had periods where I just get out of One Piece and have to dive back in where's their buzz. Maybe I'm misremembering cover stories but here goes.

I thought CP9 were on the run for their failure right? Yet Lucci (and Kaku, the mild mannered guy who is NOT a justice hound like Lucci) are in CP0, more secret-er than CP9. How did this happen?

spoiler

what of kumadori, fukurou, jabra, ? i legit thought this was a baroque works situation and the defeated all just piece out. I feel like I have severe memory loss.

You're not the only one. If there was an explanation I missed it. Far as I know we've never been given a reason, not in the story nor in an SBS.

Hopefully we'll get an answer this arc.

danie

@Ivotas We are talking about a cartoon here... It's fine if you want to criticize it, but One Piece has never took itself too seriously, so you just look silly if you go too far with it.

Ivotas

@danie
Which can be said about literally every single thing we critisize here on this One Piece fan forum. Honestly, how in this day and age the old "it's a childrens comic" line is still brought up is beyond me. It never brings any point of value to the table and only showcases the limits of engagement someone is willing to bring to a discussion. In which case I wonder why involve yourself in this in the first place?

Also "One Piece has never took itself too seriously" is factually wrong. It is a silly adventure yes, but the world and it's machinations, the lore and the coherence has for many years been one of the series' strongests draws. There's a reason why people considered Oda to be above his peers for so many years and the not contradicting itself is one of the many things people liked. And when cracks pop up here and there people like me, who liked the story for not having them (or having them kept to a tolerable mininum) will feel disappointed.

I repeat what I said in my previous post. If you are not bothered by it, then that's fine. I'm not going to tell you that you need to feel the same as me about it. But at the same time I ask you to not tell me to not be bothered by a flaw that is evidentally there. And for the love of god stop using the "it's a children's comic" argument. Not in a comic which among others has addressed things like slavery, revolution, corruption, hunger, family, responsibility, domination and/or freedom in its still ongoing run. If we're talking about series like Yotsuba then you might have a point. But not in this.

danie

@Ivotas I said nothing about "it's a childrens comic". I would say the same thing about anything that doesn't take itself too seriously regarless of the target audience.

To each their own. I just can't bring myself to be super critical of something that doesn't take itself too seriously. And that's precisely what i like about One Piece- It doesn't take itself too seriously! It leans hard into the fact that it is a cartoon!

Daz

I'm fairly convinced the CP0 are wearing masks here solely because CP9 were masked early on in the W7 arc,
. Like, CP9 had actual secret identities to maintain and did so under the guise of dressing for an impending carnival, but since that’s how the "secret assasin" concept was introduced, guess CP0 also needs fancy masks, context be damned.

Really, I maintain that CP0 is Odas most transparent latecomer retcon created solely to be a plot-expediating device. Nothing about them makes sense. They're the publically known sgency that handles world noble business and also their public, personal superpowered bodyguards but ALSO diplomats to foreign countries on non- noble related business and ALSO on very CP9 style undercover/assasination missions and will also take a chance to like, score a big pile of treasure for the WG and wait weren't these guys supposed to be world noble handlers?

Trying to have them both be public facing bureaucrats/bodyguards and secret undercover assassins BUT MORESO THAN THE SECRETS SUPERPOWERED ASSASINS WE ALREADY HAD is just a mess.

Ivotas

@danie said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Ivotas I said nothing about "it's a childrens comic". I would say the same thing about anything that doesn't take itself too seriously regarless of the target audience.

No, you didn't literally say "it's a childrens comic". You said "we're talking about a cartoon here" and followed up with the "never took itself too seriously" argument. That pretty much is one of the many rethorics how the "it's a childrens comic" argument is presented.

To each their own. I just can't bring myself to be super critical of something that doesn't take itself too seriously. And that's precisely what i like about One Piece- It doesn't take itself too seriously. It leans hard into the fact that it is a cartoon!

Good and coherent storytelling does not stay in antagonism to a story not taking itself too seriously. That's two completely different things right there. Whether a series takes itself seriously or not, are not really indicators to judge the quality of the storytelling. It's rather something that gives it its unique flavour. But that aside a story will still to have to be written well to be considered a good story. And when a story uses self-contradictory elements it's bad storytelling that cannot be excused by "doesn't take too seriously".

Johnny B. Decent

@Daz So, let's say they were purely just called AEGIS instead of CP0, and it was clear they were the World Nobles' own personal Intelligence Agency, would you say that would work better, because then they would have their own subdivisions within the group?

Zhenja

Excuse me, I have a question. Who said CP0 is a secret intelligence agency? CP9 was the secret one.
CP0 is not secret, they fucking have ships with their name on it...

Barkworm

@Zhenja said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

Excuse me, I have a question. Who said CP0 is a secret intelligence agency? CP9 was the secret one.
CP0 is not secret, they fucking have ships with their name on it...

I think Oda wasn‘t really sure what he was going for. In the beginning at least they were at least somewhat secret because Guernica and his gang always wore masks and Stussy was an undercover agent - on WCI apparently no one knew that she was with CP0. By now the masks have mostly become decoration for the strongest members (are there even any CP0 agents without masks?) since everyone seems to know Lucci‘s and Stussy‘s identities!? It‘s all a bit wishy-washy.

desa

@Johnny-B-Decent said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Daz So, let's say they were purely just called AEGIS instead of CP0, and it was clear they were the World Nobles' own personal Intelligence Agency, would you say that would work better, because then they would have their own subdivisions within the group?

Not recycling the characters from CP9 would also help not making so obvious.

Zhenja

@Barkworm said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

I think Oda wasn‘t really sure what he was going for. In the beginning at least they were at least somewhat secret because Guernica and his gang always wore masks and Stussy was an undercover agent - on WCI apparently no one knew that she was with CP0. By now the masks have mostly become decoration for the strongest members (are there even any CP0 agents without masks?) since everyone seems to know Lucci‘s and Stussy‘s identities!? It‘s all a bit wishy-washy.

Their introduction was "The world's most powerful intelligence agency".
Robin said that those with masks are the most elite out of CP0.

Who exactly knows about Lucci and Stussy? Only people who've seen them without masks during their CP0 duty, are the people from the Levely, no?

As far as I remember, Big Mom Pirates don't know Stussy is CP0, same for Morgans. They only met her without mask as the underworld broker...
Vegapunk knows because he's WG.
Strawhats know Lucci for obvious reasons...

If I'm not mistaken, aside the former CP9 members, no CP0 member was shown without mask outside a WG-environment...

danie

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

Good and coherent storytelling does not stay in antagonism to a story not taking itself too seriously. That's two completely different things right there. Whether a series takes itself seriously or not, are not really indicators to judge the quality of the storytelling. It's rather something that gives it its unique flavour. But that aside a story will still to have to be written well to be considered a good story. And when a story uses self-contradictory elements it's bad storytelling that cannot be excused by "doesn't take too seriously".

Wasn't what you were criticizing that Cipher Pol doesn't function like real world intelligence agencies? My answer is that they don't have too! It's a cartoon!

You might as well criticize that the marine admirals don't stay behind to direct their soldiers instead of they themselves kicking ass with their awesome powers.

Johnny B. Decent

Yeah, if the Marines worked like real life, the Chief Petty Officers would be the real ass kickers.

Robby

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

I cannot believe that I actually have to explain this very concept to you of all people.

I understand what you're saying just fine. Don't be condescending.

But you're making a huge multi-page deal out of an issue no one else sees AS an issue, hence the confusion from the half dozen people replying to you.

Chams 0

@Daz said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

I'm fairly convinced the CP0 are wearing masks here solely because CP9 were masked early on in the W7 arc,
. Like, CP9 had actual secret identities to maintain and did so under the guise of dressing for an impending carnival, but since that’s how the "secret assasin" concept was introduced, guess CP0 also needs fancy masks, context be damned.

YES! THIS! Oda does that a lot.

Like Brooke being Halloween themed appearing together with Thriller Bark, even though the reasons he was a skeleton had nothing to do with TB.
Big Mom was introduced in a way that we were made to think she was a cannibal, in Fishman Isle's phone call. Then we find out she was eating the homies... and then she was an actual cannibal!
CP9 used masks because W7 was Venice-themed, and now because of that CP0 also wears masks.
Shandians have wings in Jaya's flashback, even thought the island came from the blue seas.

Oda really cares about the themes of each arc, even though the reason behind some things doesn't make a lot of sense.

Also, why is no one mentioning the biggest plot hole in One Piece: CP9 infiltrated the Galley-la Company USING THEIR REAL NAMES In Enies Lobby there was a Marine who knew all about Rob Lucci's past.

Zanze

The Celestial Dragons having their own intelligence agency that does all sorts of shady stuff was a pretty fun and plausibile idea, imo. Same for the WG having a secret branch that does deals with people the WG is not supposed to do deals with. And I suppose having the two be the same agency makes sense for the sake of simplicity.
Tying the concept to CP9 made everything a lot messier, though. My biggest perplexity about CP0 is that they seem to be teleporting around the OP world, first they're in Dressrosa, then at WCI while also supervising the Reverie and also fighting the Revos at Baltigo, and a few days later they all show up in Wano and now they're in Egghead, and every single time they show up for a different reason!
Also it's not clear if their identities and professiona are secret or public, Lucci being the most notable member of the agency is kinda lame, and the mask thing makes no sense.

Overall I'd say CP0 is a perfectly valid idea that got executed very messily.
But eh, at the very least it gave us the Legend! And the scenes with them dealing with Orochi and when they get found out by Drake were also very cool imo

Ivotas

@danie said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

Good and coherent storytelling does not stay in antagonism to a story not taking itself too seriously. That's two completely different things right there. Whether a series takes itself seriously or not, are not really indicators to judge the quality of the storytelling. It's rather something that gives it its unique flavour. But that aside a story will still to have to be written well to be considered a good story. And when a story uses self-contradictory elements it's bad storytelling that cannot be excused by "doesn't take too seriously".

Wasn't what you were criticizing that Cipher Pol doesn't function like real world intelligence agencies? My answer is that they don't have too! It's a cartoon!

My point was and always will be that each fictional story has it's source in real life. If it hasn't it wouldn't be something the audience could relate to. That's not something I came up with, it's basic knowledge of storytelling. That does not mean that fictional stories put their own spins on it but the basic concepts have to apply. And we can use your Marine example below to perfectly show how it follows real world concepts with their own unique spin.

You might as well criticize that the marine admirals don't stay behind to direct their soldiers instead of they themselves kicking ass with their awesome powers.

Admirals or Generals (depending of what military branch we're talking about) hold their high rank because of their skillset that usually has been put to successfully use in real missions. Based on the accomplishments you get a higher rank because their achievements show that the skillset is used best in a higher position. Simple example, if an Admiral is a super strategist and good at keeping soldiers under control but being substandard in a real fight then putting him on the front lines is a waste of his talents. In the real world one person can not defeat thousands of soldiers with his own physical power.

In One Piece however characters have those superhuman powers. In One Piece strenght does matter. Of course other skills help too but being strong is what decides everything in every arc. That's the unique flavour of this universe itself. But it still has to follow the real world rules where one is made an Admiral because of their skillset and achievements. The difference between One Piece and the real world are the values of raw physical strength. But the concept of why a soldier is made Admiral is the same.

@Robby said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

I cannot believe that I actually have to explain this very concept to you of all people.

I understand what you're saying just fine. Don't be condescending.

No offense mate, but a "nobody else cares" statement is just as condescending. It's one of the worst ways to approach a discussion here because different people have different things they like/dislike. It's for neither of us to decide what value a certain aspect of the story hold to another person here. Many things have been discussed in this forum and there will always be things people care for while others don't.

But you're making a huge multi-page deal out of an issue no one else sees AS an issue, hence the confusion from the half dozen people replying to you.

I merely made one post saying how CP0 is a mess on a conceptual basis since they are whatever the plot needs them to be. What made this is multi-page discussion is the replies that tell me it's inaccurate. Am I not supposed to reply and explain why I don't agree with the feedback I get and why I think said feedback is wrong?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's the others fault as it's definitely me who started this. But saying "you are making a huge multi-page deal out of (it)" is kind of a weird point of criticism considering that this is a discussion forum. And that's even leaving aside that it's factually wrong as there's not only members who disagree but also guys who agree with my point.

As I said several times already on this subject, it's ok if it is not a big deal to you guys. I'm not trying to tell you that you have to dislike it as I do. I'm not saying that you have to care as much as I do. What I'm saying is, that if you chose to engage in a discussion with me to prove my argument wrong, then you have to understand that I will reply to you and defend my point as long as I see that what I propose still holds up.

I mean you know me mate. You've witnessed several times by now, that no matter how much I make hard cases, I'm the first to say "I stand corrected" when somebody makes a really good case for how I am mistaken. That's always the mindset I approach these things. If you don't want to talk about this anymore it's fine. I'm not going to force you or anyone else to stick to this. But don't complain if I reply to the feedback I'm getting. That's a childish way to end a discussion.

Robby

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

No offense mate, but a "nobody else cares" statement is just as condescending.

You were rude to me, so I may have been rude or terse in return. That was not my intent.

I apologize.

Johnny B. Decent

@Zanze If I were to guess, I would presume the Mask thing is that they are in the end, mere servants to "The Gods", or something.

Ivotas

@Robby said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Ivotas said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

No offense mate, but a "nobody else cares" statement is just as condescending.

You were rude to me, so I may have been rude or terse in return. That was not my intent.

I apologize.

No offense taken. Also sorry if I came across as rude myself. Wasn't my intention either.

ARTEMlS

I see that as issue, too. Actually as some major issue because it's such a perfect example of what Daz mourned in the last chapter discussion by saying "Selective Incompetence" - which for me actually is the most glaring point out of that list.

We are dealing with countries or even empires here, both the WG and the Yonko territories, which are constantly at war. Not having a properly working secret service at your disposal just is such a glaring oversight especially for the WG.

This was especially glaring in the Ohara flashback. Why was CP9 involved there again? Yeah, they are the assassination troup, but let's assume absolutely everyone actually died there. They still had to ensure there's a proper cleanup, that is, none of the books remaining lying in the open. Perfectly fine if the Marines don't know the value - as long as you as a secret service unit do the proper final cleanup yourself then.

Not having that actually effective secret service is one of the things that lets appear the global players like the WG appear as super weak antagonistic forces on a narrative level - and a weak antagonist is something that affects the overall writing quality of a fictional work quite heavily.

GuetaMinute

@Johnny-B-Decent said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

Yeah, if the Marines worked like real life, the Chief Petty Officers would be the real ass kickers.

“I need a weapon.”

onemoment

I'm a bit worried that something stupid will happen and those magnet boots will prevent most of the crew from fighting withe CP0 arrives.

But, then I remember that Jimbei and Luffy are free...and frankly there's no universe where they shouldn't be enough to fight this off. This is a weird looming threat where only sheer plot convenience and stupidly can help Rob Lucci win, assuming that's where this is going. I admit I've been waiting to learn more about CP0 for awhile, and I hope they can become more than a recycled version of CP9.

Bugs

Jim boy is; Luffy still has the boots on. Personally, I don't trust Lilith in the least and wouldn't be surprised if she did something to help CP0. As we've seen she's not that bright either, and probably doesn't grasp why they're here.

danie

@Ivotas Yeah, no. In reality, marine admirals would not personally be involved in combat. They would orchestrate it. In one piece they do personally fight because it is a cartoon. That is the fundamental difference between them, so i have no problem if cartoon intelligence operatives also don't operate like their real world counterparts.

Ivotas

@danie said in Chapter 1067: Punk Records:

@Ivotas Yeah, no. In reality, marine admirals would not personally be involved in combat. They would orchestrate it. In one piece they do personally fight because it is a cartoon. That is the fundamental difference between them, so i have no problem if cartoon intelligence operatives also don't operate like their real world counterparts.

The fundamental difference is the application not the concept, that being that Admirals receive their rank to make best use of their abilities. In the One Piece world physical strenght is very important. In the real world the important things are leadership and strategic thinking. That's a difference in requirement. But both receive the rank because they are considered to be most suited to meet the individual requirements. That's because the basic concept is exactly the same in both worlds.

electricmastro

Gotta, would be interesting to see Oda tackling writing Straw Hats + Bonney + the 7 Vegapunk lifeforms onboard. lol