Final Fantasy XIV Online

[Hakase]

@Greg said in Final Fantasy XIV Online:

"For FF14 there is no optimal or suboptimal to the input method as it contextually matters to the game."

A false statement based on subjectivity rather than the actual fact that more actions must be performed on controller to achieve the same result. In terms of clearance, if a player is skilled/fast enough, the same result of victory, if victory is what is sought, may be achieved.

It's based on people that I've talked to that do world prog. And yes subjectivity plays into it cause that's the whole fucking point. I'm accounting for the subjective experience of people trying to go into this game and flatout telling with pretty good backing that it won't matter on what input method they choose.

Your whole insisting on the optimal as if people were machines and they should make the only objective choice disregarding their own preference is beyond silly dude. Subjectivity matters for how you will enjoy the game is the entire fucking point Subjectivity matters for how comfortable you will play. No amount of you preaching this theoretical gain is gonna make people like Hako be actually faster in reality playing on kbm. People aren't blank slates that work like machines(and I can't believe this has to be stated), your personal subjective comfort for whatever input method you like will trump whatever theoretical gain there could be in reality.
And no challenge in this game is hard enough to pressure you into any certain input method, because the design of the game 100% supports both.

God I really can't believe what you're trying to argue here. I hope you're just like having a internet argument moment or something but it's really silly.

Tbf though I'm stupid too for continuing this given the info is now all open and I think people know enough now to make an informed choice by themselves.

[sgamer82]

@Hakase
I'm inclined to agree. the way I've always looked at it is "using the best build in the game doesn't mean a whole lot if you're not personally good with it or don't personally enjoy it"

@Johnny-B-Decent said in Final Fantasy XIV Online:

So.....what is everyone's class and race?

I am going for a Lalafell Marauder to start off. 3 feet of fury!

Class-wise I'm a jack of all trades. I'm a male Lalafell. I've been leveling all the classes, but I've a preference for Summoner and Red Mage. Red Mage in particularly because it has, more than once, allowed me to pull our group out of the fire as a back-up rezzer. Red Mage in particular since it isn't reliant on Quickcast. I have a clip I could show but I'm not sure how to format it as the attempts to embed it aren't working.

[Hakase]

@sgamer82 said in Final Fantasy XIV Online:

@Hakase
I'm inclined to agree. the way I've always looked at it is "using the best build in the game doesn't mean a whole lot if you're not personally good with it or don't personally enjoy it"

Basically yeah, although my asterisk would be that there are probably games where one input is potentially so superior where this might matter, although the only thing that would come to my mind is like a controller strategy game like the N64 version of starcraft 1... but FF14 just isn't part of those games. The entire design of the game really doesn't force it in that way.

[Greg]

Sgamer, the best-build debate is a remarkable waste of time from most angles anyway. As SE is constantly tweaking, the 'best' it is always in a state of shifting.

As there is a definitive 'best way to play' for each job (i.e. the current rotation) and each rotation is essentially just a rhythm game, if you don't enjoy that particular job's game, no point in dedicating time to a job that isn't fulfilling even if, at that slice in the game's history, it's quantifiably, the 'best'.

[Hakase]

Greg being so childish/stubborn enough to put me on ignore for my I think reasonably argued stances really makes me question if there is even a point on being on this forum anymore since that's the level you can expect of good faith engagement from regulars.
So maybe I'll leave this as another last post on from another person on the pile more qualified to give you an opinion on it all.

Mr happy raids on KBM too. Peace out APforums.

If an admin sees this I'd be happy to have my account be deleted, cause I see no point in being part of a forum community this small when the ignore also just makes people invisible to others, especially when it's a petty reaction like this. And while I think this stance Greg is trying to dig his heels in on is frankly silly and he wouldn't get a different reaction than mine talking to any other world prog raider. It does suck now having to deal with all his One Piece related post being invisible which I respect his insight on that topic certainly much more than on this one. Just to give more context on if that's the reaction I can expect engaging in good faith with like here there is truly no point in having an account cause lurking without account will give me more access to actually read what's going on.

[Johnny B. Decent]

Now I feel bad for starting this whole debate.

[sgamer82]

@Greg said in Final Fantasy XIV Online:

Sgamer, the best-build debate is a remarkable waste of time from most angles anyway. As SE is constantly tweaking, the 'best' it is always in a state of shifting.

As there is a definitive 'best way to play' for each job (i.e. the current rotation) and each rotation is essentially just a rhythm game, if you don't enjoy that particular job's game, no point in dedicating time to a job that isn't fulfilling even if, at that slice in the game's history, it's quantifiably, the 'best'.

In this context, I was using my expression in the sense of keyboard & mouse vs controller because the same logic applies. If you're more comfortable with controller but suck at using keyboard, it doesn't matter how optimal keyboard is in comparison (or vice versa).

@Hakase said in Final Fantasy XIV Online:

Greg being so childish/stubborn enough to put me on ignore for my I think reasonably argued stances really makes me question if there is even a point on being on this forum anymore since that's the level you can expect of good faith engagement from regulars.
So maybe I'll leave this as another last post on from another person on the pile more qualified to give you an opinion on it all.

If this is legit what happened, it feels like an overreaction on both sides, in my opinion, since it's just about how you play a video game.

[Hakase]

If this is legit what happened, it feels like an overreaction on both sides, in my opinion, since it's just about how you play a video game.

Well pretty sure that's what happened since all his post are completely invisible to me now.
Also dunno about overreaction on my side cause I truly see no use in being on this forum if that's how things go in disagreements especially like this. Like I'm factually going to be able to read more with no account lurking. So I'd rather cut off AP this way and be happier never interacting again.

But also again this argument to begin with is very odd to me cause I think I've been very good faith and my endgoal in all of this always has only been to make new players not worry about what they will play on with I think perfectly good reason. Like I'm not talking out of my ass, it's based on my own experience having extensively used both, it's based on me having talked to people in different content communities and heard about their views. And it's not like you can't easily fact check yourself people like AngelusDemonus, MrHappy or other people doing whatever content you might be interested in aren't inaccessible.

So I'm just here truly baffled how we land on this totally reality divorced view where Greg pretends humans don't have preferences and are all blank slate machines that will optimally play just based on using the optimal device, which I'm just beyond baffled how you can have a view like that. That's just not how people work. I already said it earlier but a person that has only ever played on controller is not overcoming play habit brainwiring of that to even tap into whatever theoretical benefit there is on pressing your button keyboard milliseconds faster and additional again it doesn't matter in the context of the design of the game cause no single challenge exist where these differences are pressed.

So frankly I'm just kinda pissed that somehow this escalated into this dickhead tirade of there is no discussion and frankly Greg in this from my pov has just been entirely bad faith and these views are just so insanely divorced from actual reality and are also easily checked by just talking to actual people playing the game. Additionally I don't even get to what end Greg wants to insist on this silliness. Like is he trying to protect people from me "deceiving" them on trying to pick up the game on controller? It makes not fucking sense to paint this picture to me where FF14 kbm only is the top experience.

I'm kinda just here to wait on getting my account deleted cause again if this is the interaction I get from I think being pretty reasonable from someone that's a regular and who at least on the One Piece side has actual good insight to share with the current ignore system makes it just useless to be here.

If Greg ever sees this you won. Congrats.

@Johnny-B-Decent said in Final Fantasy XIV Online:

Now I feel bad for starting this whole debate.

Not your fault at all. And also disregarding the drama I hope at least the exchanges here if anyone finds them relevant when considering starting the game give people at least enough pause to not blindly believe any one poster. My experience with the 14 community been very friendly and if you really have somehow big doubts you can always go to respective discords and get more opinions/information.

[Cinder]

We can't delete any accounts over this. I can see you're clearly upset about what transpired, and the tools here have allowed this to happen.

It's frustrating, but we have to let go and requesting deletion over an argument that ended on someone else's terms is not a healthy way to resolve your feelings. To go self-destruction after a bad interaction with one stranger is the overreaction. There's more to the community than this FF thread and him and his posts. You have a place here.

The game was designed to give a great experience on both keyboard and controller. People will try the game out and make the judgment themselves. There was a whole spectrum of stuff going on, it was honestly better for the whole thing to stop and agree to disagree. I am sorry it happened this way though, but no deletion, ok?

[Greg]

Sgamer82, Oh, def not issue over what is best in terms of play. That's entirely not only subjective, but someone on controller can be faster than a keyboard player if they're quite skilled, It simply remains that more inputs are required for controller and therefore takes more time than performing the same action on a keyboard and even if not one exact movement, given the limited number of buttons, indeed some are behind a wall of inaccessibility that require superior skill to access the same way as would otherwise be possible.

But yes, I completely agree that what one plays does not matter so long as they're most comfortable with it. I love controller. But even in using it, I'm frustrated by limitations that wouldn't be present if I were playing with a keyboard. But which one is better is in the exact same vein as you described.

edit: Not the least of those limitations being Duty Action as I sit here in Eureka robbed of my analog-click run. ^o^

[sgamer82]

CiderSpider of Mad Because Small fame describes the Party Finder experience

[sgamer82]

Just learned a little fun fact, way back in the days of 1.0, Urianger met Hildibrand

Also, Cider "Mad Because Small" Spider summarizes the holiday event: