@Deicide
I'd like the idea that Smoker went with them, but I do agree with @King-Cannon take.
I'd say Garp punched the water and the ship went flying and the smoke we see are clouds/steam.
But I'm not trying to argue. I'm sure Oda wanted Garp to have a cool entrance a la Whitebeard showing up in the middle of the square in Marineford. So that's why they came in flying.
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead)
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@Robby said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@kevo_koma said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
We only had Vivi in Drum and Alabasta.
!
She's also met (and tried to kill) Laboon, for over a decade was the only character to get into the "plays with animals" cover pages aside from the main crew, and was the only crew member in the Reverie arc.
Nowadays the play with animal covers don't mean anything because Oda just takes any random fan request, but for a long long time only the Strawhats got those.
Later down the line Karoo started getting his own as well. But Oda always kept her in the reader's mind.
I completely forgor about Little garden. She doesn't really do much in that arc in comparison to Drum, where she teaches Luffy the value of humbling yourself and asking for help. and Alabasta.
In little garden, she might as well have been gastino or caribou.
But I will agree, the Straw hats explicitly accepted her as a member of the crew, so for all intents and purposes she is a covert Straw hat member.
But he's there thing, I personally feel like a true SH member would have joined the crew regardless of the situation.
This is why Jimbei politely refused until he could take care of his baggage.
Also we have to remember, Vivi is the only SH "member" that wasn't willing to give up their personal responsiblities to go on an adventure with Luffy.
Nami could have stayed on cocoyashi, rebuilt her relationships with the villagers and helped the village prosper.
Zoro could have have become a wandering swordsman, joining random pirate groups in the hopes of drawing out mihawk before taking down each group.
Ussop could have remained on his island, gain the respect and adoration of the towns folk, married a rich woman and possibly become a business magnate.
Sanji could have taken over baratie. Spreading it all the way out into the new world.
Robin could have continued her covert affairs. Franky could have helped his bro Iceberg rebuild the city, build new cool ships, take care of the franky family.
Brook could have gone straight to laboon.
Jinbei could have taken a role in the FI politics.
All in all, Vivi is the only one who wasn't willing to give up these things to join the crew.
Yamato too.
So yeah, I think this is the biggest case against her.
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We may or may not see reinforcements, it's more on the lines of Koby and Co. starting to really question Akainu's views and the WG. I really don't see either of them wanting to save Garp or bowing down to Teach's demands. I think what happens on Egghead might push Im/Elders to use Uranus on Hachinosu, especially if the SHs and the BB pirates are there together. Revealing the WG having such a weapon and are willing to use it on their own people will definitely change Koby and Aokijis' views on everything.
If people don't think that's a doorway for Smoker to come back into the story, that's fine. Just throwing it out there as a possibility.
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@King-Cannon @The-light-of-Shandora I do agree with you in principle, but I still find the ship flying too odd to not have a proper explanation. We know that’s not an usual thing in the setting, the Sunny can do that because it has a custom built-in cola-powered engine.
Meanwhile, Garp’s ship lacked any kind of uniqueness like that (we even saw the rear of the ship), and the punch explanation feels like a handwave by readers that’s not supported by anything in the panels (Garp is in the front in a static posture and there’s not even movement lines of him coming from the rear).
Because Tashigi is there, and because not being SWORD gives Smoker a reason to not show himself, I find that explanation still possible, albeit a bit underwhelming and, for now, unlikely.
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I also found it weird Smoker wasnt with Tashigi and that the ships smoke trailer could be a hint to his presence.
Hes a smoke logia, its one of the best powers to infiltrate some place.
SWORDs mission/plan could very well be to rescue Coby while Smoker hides himself in the island, maybe to talk with Aokiji, if you believe hes an undercover marine. -
@kevo_koma said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
All in all, Vivi is the only one who wasn't willing to give up these things to join the crew.
None of the other crew members had personal responsibities. They had a few friends they maybe wanted to stay with, or felt obligated to, but no actual responsibilities.
Vivi is key to the well being of an entire nation, millions of people who just had a massively divisive war that nearly destroyed the royal family. She did in fact need to stay at that point in time. Every one of the other examples is "I could have settled in a cozy life free of adventure." That's not what Vivi gave up adventuring for.
-Baratie is spreading under Zeff's management just fine.
-Franky couldn't stay in Water 7. He was a high priority bounty after that arc. He stays there, he just brings trouble and eventually gets taken by the next CP group.
-Brook's promise to Laboon was to go around the world, not go a few miles then come back.
-Robin's covert affairs had gotten her nowhere. Teaming up with Luffy she's now seen more bits of the true history than she did in a lifetime.
-Yamato remains to be seen what ends up happening. Wano is eventually going to be attacked for that ancient weapon. And then...? -
@Robby said in [Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead)](/post/4112266
-Yamato remains to be seen what ends up happening. Wano is eventually going to be attacked for that ancient weapon. And then...?
So there’s still hope?
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@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
So there’s still hope?
Sure. Particularly after the most recent color spread.
I've now abandoned this particular guessing game because whatever Oda is doing with Yamato is weird one way or the other. But I'd say he still has a shot, though I'm not holding my breath.
He's definitely an epilogue crew member, for whatever that's worth. But most of us only really care about the big main journey.
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@Robby said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
So there’s still hope?
I've now abandoned this particular guessing game because whatever Oda is doing with Yamato is weird one way or the other. But I'd say he still has a shot, though I'm not holding my breath.
He's definitely an epilogue crew member, for whatever that's worth. But most of us only really care about the big main journey.
Since you bring it up, I might as well give more of my thoughts here:
It's evident to me that Oda is giving Yamato more growth by gradually phasing out of becoming Oden. She even willingly stayed behind even though Oden would have sailed out with Luffy right away if Luffy had been there in Whitebeard's place back then.
I can't prove it, but somehow I get the feeling Oda wouldn't want Yamato to constantly reference and mimic Oden the way she does, and would rather she have agency as her own character, with her own goals and motivations without having to impersonate Oden, and being more in-sync with the crew's world rather then her own little Oden world.
It has been pointed out to me that Yamato trying to be Oden isn't so different from Usopp trying to be Sogeking. Usopp tried to be Sogeking to cover up his insecurities, and Yamato being insecure enough to use Oden as some security blanket as well makes sense for why she does what she does.
Yamato also refers to herself as "Kaido's son" even though she dislikes Kaido. Her saying it to people like Ryukugyu could mean that she only declares herself as "Kaido's son" so as to scare enemies away, as if to say her own name isn't enough, so she takes up multiple titles to "make up" for that.
This is what I've concluded: Yamato sees more worth in "being Oden" than being "Yamato". On chapter 1024 Yamato says "Even I had people who believed in me!! People that accepted me!!" So clearly Yamato has had anxiety over not being believed in and accepted enough.
So now that she has basically held off her ambitions to sail with Ace's brother in favor of protecting a man-child shogun who'd likely throw a wounded temper tantrum at Yamato the moment he concludes he's being pitied for his failure is likely set-up to give Yamato much needed growth during downtime. It would surprise me if Yamato didn't have growth at all all throughout this considering the circumstances.
And "too late, final saga" can only apply so much here. If Oda can hugely develop Kuma and Bonney, who were barely there before Egghead, with a flashback of eight chapters, then clearly Oda is still willing to take his time further developing characters (and potential cremates) where he feels like it.
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I think there's a chance Yamato will be there when they get to Laugh Tale at least, it kind of depends on what happens with Wano and Pluton. I'm convinced that the Caribou siutation will pay-off with either Cross Guild or Blackbeard rocking up to Wano in order to get it, and Yamato won't leave till after that has happened (this is the threat he was worried about and stayed behind to fight) but once that's happened there's no narrative reason for Yamato to stay anymore.
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@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
I think there's a chance Yamato will be there when they get to Laugh Tale at least, it kind of depends on what happens with Wano and Pluton. I'm convinced that the Caribou siutation will pay-off with either Cross Guild or Blackbeard rocking up to Wano in order to get it, and Yamato won't leave till after that has happened (this is the threat he was worried about and stayed behind to fight) but once that's happened there's no narrative reason for Yamato to stay anymore.
Momo wanted to know why Oden wanted to open the borders after discovering info had been ripped out of the journal, so that may very well encourage Yamato to go to Laugh Tale to get the answers Momo seeks.
Oda could also develop Momo quickly like how he did with Koby, but on the subject of Cross Guild, I actually had this idea that Cross Guild goes to Wano and ends up winning favor from Momo and the others due to Buggy's connection with Oden.
In addition to Crocodile being interested in Pluton, Mihawk is interested in swords and would prob be more than happy to make his new home base at Wano after his castle get outed by Marines. Since Wano is hard for most Marines to get into to begin with, I could see Mihawk staying there and maybe even training Momo while Yamato sails off with Emperor Buggy, like how Oden sailed off with Emperor Whitebeard.
I think it could potentially lead Yamato to further growth in how you shouldn't give people special treatment because they were friends with Oden, and may further encourage Yamato to be her own character from there.
Big question is though, would Oda be the sort of writer to go through with something like that
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@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
I think there's a chance Yamato will be there when they get to Laugh Tale at least, it kind of depends on what happens with Wano and Pluton. I'm convinced that the Caribou siutation will pay-off with either Cross Guild or Blackbeard rocking up to Wano in order to get it, and Yamato won't leave till after that has happened (this is the threat he was worried about and stayed behind to fight) but once that's happened there's no narrative reason for Yamato to stay anymore.
Oda could also develop Momo quickly like how he did with Koby, but on the subject of Cross Guild, I actually had this idea that Cross Guild goes to Wano and ends up winning favor from Momo and the others due to Buggy's connection with Oden.
While that would be a way for things to go peacefully, I don't think it will happen this way. There are three heads of Cross Guild and three Poneglyphs that we know the location of. Cross Guild doesn't have any right now so if they are in this race for the One Piece then Oda needs to show us them going to Wano, Whole Cake Island and Zou pretty quickly to get what they need. And I can only imagine it being peaceful when it's the island Buggy goes to (for the reason you just said). Buggy will probably go to Zou though as it's the hardest one to reach of the three and Buggy's been there before. So that leaves Wano to either Mihawk or Crocodile (I think Mihawk because Swords go brrrr).
Thinking on it, this could also be the event that forces Yamato to leave. If Mihawk rolls up and takes all the Samurai down, Yamato included, then that's probably a big enough event to let Luffy know about (and it wouldn't result in Wano being destroyed like Pluton reviving might do).
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@kevo_koma said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@Robby said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@kevo_koma said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
We only had Vivi in Drum and Alabasta.
!
She's also met (and tried to kill) Laboon, for over a decade was the only character to get into the "plays with animals" cover pages aside from the main crew, and was the only crew member in the Reverie arc.
Nowadays the play with animal covers don't mean anything because Oda just takes any random fan request, but for a long long time only the Strawhats got those.
Later down the line Karoo started getting his own as well. But Oda always kept her in the reader's mind.
I completely forgor about Little garden. She doesn't really do much in that arc in comparison to Drum, where she teaches Luffy the value of humbling yourself and asking for help. and Alabasta.
In little garden, she might as well have been gastino or caribou.
But I will agree, the Straw hats explicitly accepted her as a member of the crew, so for all intents and purposes she is a covert Straw hat member.
But he's there thing, I personally feel like a true SH member would have joined the crew regardless of the situation.
This is why Jimbei politely refused until he could take care of his baggage.
Also we have to remember, Vivi is the only SH "member" that wasn't willing to give up their personal responsiblities to go on an adventure with Luffy.
Nami could have stayed on cocoyashi, rebuilt her relationships with the villagers and helped the village prosper.
Zoro could have have become a wandering swordsman, joining random pirate groups in the hopes of drawing out mihawk before taking down each group.
Ussop could have remained on his island, gain the respect and adoration of the towns folk, married a rich woman and possibly become a business magnate.
Sanji could have taken over baratie. Spreading it all the way out into the new world.
Robin could have continued her covert affairs. Franky could have helped his bro Iceberg rebuild the city, build new cool ships, take care of the franky family.
Brook could have gone straight to laboon.
Jinbei could have taken a role in the FI politics.
All in all, Vivi is the only one who wasn't willing to give up these things to join the crew.
Yamato too.
So yeah, I think this is the biggest case against her.
I had recently come to the realization that each person had to give something valuable up before becoming a Straw Hat:
Nami left behind Nojiko her village.
Sanji left behind Zeff and his restaurant.
Franky left behind the Franky Family and Water 7.
And even Brook was even willing to pass up the offer to immediately turn around from Thriller Bark to Reverse Mountain in order to reunite with Laboon.
So when looking at Vivi and Yamato with all that in mind, Vivi ultimately wasn't willing to give up Alabasta for the crew, and Yamato didn't really have anything to give up if she had left Wano in Chapter 1057.
That's definitely might be another reason Oda had that play out with Yamato, so that she can stack up sentimental memories with Wano and Momo.
Considering cases like how Sanji cried as he left Zeff behind, I'd no doubt Oda would want Yamato's departure from Wano to be a sentimentally meaningful one.
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@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
I think there's a chance Yamato will be there when they get to Laugh Tale at least, it kind of depends on what happens with Wano and Pluton. I'm convinced that the Caribou siutation will pay-off with either Cross Guild or Blackbeard rocking up to Wano in order to get it, and Yamato won't leave till after that has happened (this is the threat he was worried about and stayed behind to fight) but once that's happened there's no narrative reason for Yamato to stay anymore.
Oda could also develop Momo quickly like how he did with Koby, but on the subject of Cross Guild, I actually had this idea that Cross Guild goes to Wano and ends up winning favor from Momo and the others due to Buggy's connection with Oden.
While that would be a way for things to go peacefully, I don't think it will happen this way. There are three heads of Cross Guild and three Poneglyphs that we know the location of. Cross Guild doesn't have any right now so if they are in this race for the One Piece then Oda needs to show us them going to Wano, Whole Cake Island and Zou pretty quickly to get what they need. And I can only imagine it being peaceful when it's the island Buggy goes to (for the reason you just said). Buggy will probably go to Zou though as it's the hardest one to reach of the three and Buggy's been there before. So that leaves Wano to either Mihawk or Crocodile (I think Mihawk because Swords go brrrr).
Thinking on it, this could also be the event that forces Yamato to leave. If Mihawk rolls up and takes all the Samurai down, Yamato included, then that's probably a big enough event to let Luffy know about (and it wouldn't result in Wano being destroyed like Pluton reviving might do).
I think it might be more interesting if Yamato is fooled into leaving with Cross Guild, and Oda could even use the aforementioned excuse of Mihawk staying in Wano if necessary, since Mihawk likes peace and quiet. Buggy presumably remembers Road Poneglyphs being there, at Zou, and at Whole Cake, so they could just go from Wano to Zou using Neko and Inu's help, and then go to Whole Cake.
And then Yamato meanwhile might be once again fooled into attacking Marines and many others on the basis of "that's what Oden the pirate would do!" and then it's only later when Yamato realizes her mistake, if she happened to attack someone she shouldn't have. It's after that she may swap over from Cross Guild to Straw Hats, like how Oden swapped over from Whitebeard to Roger, since Cross Guild is set to confront Straw Hats anyway due to Zoro vs. Mihawk.
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I'm not really sure what reason Yamato would have to leave with Cross Guild though. The only reason I could imagine is that for some reason Yamato decides that he doesn't need to protect Wano anymore and is just using Cross Guild to get to Luffy. I also can't really see Mihawk staying behind in Wano. I know he likes his peace and quiet but Oda still needs Mihawk to be there for the final battle and in an antagonistic role to the Straw Hats so he and Zoro can fight. Cross Guild was the perfect way to set that up, so it would be weird for Mihawk to just dip at this point.
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@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
I'm not really sure what reason Yamato would have to leave with Cross Guild though.
Well it's simple, if Yamato wants to walk in Oden's footsteps, then she'd leave with an Emperor like how Oden did! And then "somehow" end up getting to Luffy anyway. lol
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There is a Pluton size door for Yamato to walk through if Oda chooses. This arc will, most likely, get that ball rolling with Caribou and the Blackbeard pirates. From there it's a matter of when does Teach go after Pluton and will Momo prove he is capable of defending Wano. I think Teach going for Pluton will happen sooner rather than later as Oda would want to get all the pieces in place prior to the final war and it makes more sense for the SHs to go back when they are close by. As for Momo, it's believable that Teach will leave if he's unsure of the outcome and he already has what he wants. All Momo has to do is bluff to make the BB pirates leave and the open borders will do the rest. Word will spread that the Shogun of Wano pushed out an Emperor and that will be enough for the rest of the story.
Will Yamato join at that point? No idea, but Oda better have something new to say about Yamato if that is the case otherwise what was the point of delaying.
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I find it pretty hard to predict Yamato’s role in the future. However, my gut feeling for now is that he will be kept as a “Wano character”, only really leaving that position in the very end, when his duty finally feels fulfilled.
I think it’s because Yamato’s dream is very generic, so he being able to leave and freely travel the world without worries feels like his final achievement and fitting finale.
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@Zin-Magala said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
Will Yamato join at that point? No idea, but Oda better have something new to say about Yamato if that is the case otherwise what was the point of delaying.
The same reason Jinbei joining got delayed. Oda just doesn't have anything for Yamato to do on Egghead. And I think this is fair for this arc because I imagine Yamato would immediately run off and explore on the first new island he lands on, and it doesn't make much sense for him to do that on the government controlled Egghhead. It would be more fitting on Elbaf.
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@black-leg-jex
Why not, that would be so Luffy like causing problems on an island they just arrived on and the comedic material this would cause would be awesome.
I imagine every Strawhat suspecting Luffy caused trouble, but it turns out Yamato was the one responsible for it.If Yamatos joining got delayed, I can imagine Oda wanting to explore first Jinbe as a new crewmate and get a feel for his character as a Strawhat. Like finding his place among the crew and have them interact, Yamato might have shifted focus away from Jinbe.
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Yamato probably would've shifted focus away from Jinbei. If we think of how the structure of Egghead has been so far, Yamato would've been stuck with the Robin, Sanji, Nami, Franky group and end up spending most of their time in the lab, where as I feel like Oda would want Yamato's first thing to be to run off in excitement. It could happen but then we'd just have this random section of Yamato running around on their own, not really doing anything until the Seraphom attacked and that feels a little pointless.
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@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
, I actually had this idea that Cross Guild goes to Wano and ends up winning favor from Momo and the others due to Buggy's connection with Oden.
You know, I like this idea. Another example of Cross Guild having the resources to be a dangerous threat (Buggy's connections, Croc's savvy, Mihawk's power), coupled with:
Yamato sails off with Emperor Buggy, like how Oden sailed off with Emperor Whitebeard.
I think it could potentially lead Yamato to further growth in how you shouldn't give people special treatment because they were friends with Oden
I REALLY like this idea. Yamato would be all over Buggy because of the Oden connection only to get shown a very different kind of adventuring.
bonus points if the Straw Hats learn and get shocked, Buggy really has this parallel version of Luffy's "get all kinds of people on your team" showmanship.
brief aside but I do wonder what the endgame role is for ol' Croc. Obviously Buggy is content to still be a pirate and search for treasure, Mihawk is cool with solitude and doing what he likes, but I wonder what he will do once the series is over. Maybe journey on his own (or with Daz Bones), or do some kind of other business. It's been interesting to pinpoint his trajectory.
(Vivi seemed fine that Robin joined Luffy's crew but she certainly wouldn't be pleased he technically freed Croc, so I wonder if that would be brought up)
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@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
Yamato probably would've shifted focus away from Jinbei. If we think of how the structure of Egghead has been so far, Yamato would've been stuck with the Robin, Sanji, Nami, Franky group and end up spending most of their time in the lab, where as I feel like Oda would want Yamato's first thing to be to run off in excitement. It could happen but then we'd just have this random section of Yamato running around on their own, not really doing anything until the Seraphom attacked and that feels a little pointless.
It would have been super easy to have Yamato jump after Luffy and Chopper at the beginning of the arc like the naive idiot ability user he is.
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I'm not talking about Yamato not being on Egghead, I'm talking about a delayed joining in itself. If all Oda is going to do is have Yamato join just in time for the final war then that's disappointing. If a certain event needs to happen to build up Yamato's character more and then he joins in time for Elbaf, I'm all for it.
Even if it's a less generic dream, I would be happy.
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@MetaMario said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
, I actually had this idea that Cross Guild goes to Wano and ends up winning favor from Momo and the others due to Buggy's connection with Oden.
You know, I like this idea. Another example of Cross Guild having the resources to be a dangerous threat (Buggy's connections, Croc's savvy, Mihawk's power), coupled with:
Yamato sails off with Emperor Buggy, like how Oden sailed off with Emperor Whitebeard.
I think it could potentially lead Yamato to further growth in how you shouldn't give people special treatment because they were friends with Oden
I REALLY like this idea. Yamato would be all over Buggy because of the Oden connection only to get shown a very different kind of adventuring.
bonus points if the Straw Hats learn and get shocked, Buggy really has this parallel version of Luffy's "get all kinds of people on your team" showmanship.
brief aside but I do wonder what the endgame role is for ol' Croc. Obviously Buggy is content to still be a pirate and search for treasure, Mihawk is cool with solitude and doing what he likes, but I wonder what he will do once the series is over. Maybe journey on his own (or with Daz Bones), or do some kind of other business. It's been interesting to pinpoint his trajectory.
Crocodile will most probably end up leading a country. Either becoming the new king to one of the recently revolutionized countries.
Or, (if OP endgame is all about democracy), he ends up being democratically elected.
He always seemed like a guy who wanted that kind of leadership role.
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@MetaMario said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
, I actually had this idea that Cross Guild goes to Wano and ends up winning favor from Momo and the others due to Buggy's connection with Oden.
You know, I like this idea. Another example of Cross Guild having the resources to be a dangerous threat (Buggy's connections, Croc's savvy, Mihawk's power)
Along with Crocodile’s interest in Pluton and Mihawk’s interest in swords and peaceful places, and Buggy reported to have tried helping Luffy save Ace, I think it would def make sense.
I think it could potentially lead Yamato to further growth in how you shouldn't give people special treatment because they were friends with Oden
I REALLY like this idea. Yamato would be all over Buggy because of the Oden connection only to get shown a very different kind of adventuring.
It would def be an effective way to show the consequences of Yamato trying to be Oden and giving favor to Buggy because of that, since Buggy was buddies with Roger and Oden back in the day.
It would fit in line when Yamato was ready to be all friends with Luffy even though Yamato only knew Luffy based on reputation.
It’s def a contrast to when Jinbe told Ace that he wouldn’t just help Luffy just because he’s Ace’s brother, but help him because Jinbe genuinely likes him.
If you guys will humor me in assuming Yamato will become Straw Hat before going to Laugh Tale, then giving more agency by way of being herself and thinking for herself would, I think, better set up her up as a crewmate rather than just doing things because Oden did them.
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@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
Yamato probably would've shifted focus away from Jinbei. If we think of how the structure of Egghead has been so far, Yamato would've been stuck with the Robin, Sanji, Nami, Franky group and end up spending most of their time in the lab, where as I feel like Oda would want Yamato's first thing to be to run off in excitement. It could happen but then we'd just have this random section of Yamato running around on their own, not really doing anything until the Seraphom attacked and that feels a little pointless.
I get the feeling Jinbe fans are already complaining that Jinbe hasn’t had enough to do on Egghead already, only really doing things like carrying people around. So if Jinbe hasn’t had enough to do, then the same might have been said of Yamato if Yamato had been at Egghead.
For as much as I wish Yamato had received more focus and development earlier, Egghead would not have been a good arc to do that in for Yamato.
Wano is def a better place for Yamato to get more self-understanding and growth than Egghead, especially since Yamato will likely be spending more time talking with various people than fighting like Yamato had in the past.
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I still think Yamato is meant to reform the Beast Pirates and have them as his army on Momo's behalf. He would be their instructor on the way of the Samurai. As Yamato too was imprisoned for a long time.
First, Yamato will have to bump his head around Wano like Oden did and cause trouble. Son of Kaido/I Am Oden stuff.
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@Zin-Magala said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
I'm not talking about Yamato not being on Egghead, I'm talking about a delayed joining in itself. If all Oda is going to do is have Yamato join just in time for the final war then that's disappointing. If a certain event needs to happen to build up Yamato's character more and then he joins in time for Elbaf, I'm all for it.
Even if it's a less generic dream, I would be happy.
That's the thing, all things considered, I don't think Yamato had a dream, at least not one she was motivated enough to have a solid sense of satisfied finality to
I look back at the dreams of the other Straw Hats and it makes me consider more:
Luffy's overall dream has motivated him enough to sail out and try to become Pirate King.
Zoro's dream is to become the world's greatest swordsman, doing so when he defeats Mihawk.
Nami's dream is to draw a map of the entire world.
Usopp's dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea, presumably doing so when he becomes a top sniper like Yasopp.
Sanji's dream is to find the All Blue.
Chopper's dream is to become a great doctor that can cure any disease.
Robin's dream is to find the Rio Poneglyph which tells the True History of the world.
Franky's dream is to build and travel on a ship which can reach the end of the Grand Line.
Brook's dream is to return to Laboon to deliver the final song with his crew recorded in a tone dial before their death.
Jinbe's dream is the coexistence of humans and the undersea dwellers, presumably achieved when fish-man slavery is eliminated and the Celestial Dragons have been ousted from their power.
Now, what would Yamato have that's on par with all of that? I for one think she honestly doesn't. While all the Straw Hats have dreams that have motivated them enough to sail out, the fact that Yamato has stayed behind can speak to how she's honestly not motivated enough to sail out, in order to accomplish something with a sense of finality like the other Straw Hats do. All Yamato seemed to care about was admiring Oden just because he had the freedom she never had, and because he was a symbol of hope for the Wano people. And now that she has freedom and Momo is the new symbol of hope for the Wano people, the lack of strong enough motivation to sail out, and instead stay in Wano to make up for Momo's failure against that treebranch Admiral is evident of the lack of driven purpose Yamato had
So this is what I've concluded: Yamato didn't have a dream, she just had the illusion of one
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I'm not a fan of Yamato's dream either. It's generic and it's essentially Oden's original dream. That could very well be the reason why Yamato chose it. However, Oden's dream evolved from simply wanting to go on adventures to joining Roger to hunt down the poneglyphs and find Laughtale. Who's to say that future events doesn't evolve Yamato's dream as well to something more personal to him.
It doesn't necessarily mean that dream will benefit from traveling with Luffy and may take Yamato in a different direction entirely. We'll have to wait and see what happens with Pluton.
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@Zin-Magala said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
I'm not a fan of Yamato's dream either. It's generic and it's essentially Oden's original dream. That could very well be the reason why Yamato chose it. However, Oden's dream evolved from simply wanting to go on adventures to joining Roger to hunt down the poneglyphs and find Laughtale. Who's to say that future events doesn't evolve Yamato's dream as well to something more personal to him.
It doesn't necessarily mean that dream will benefit from traveling with Luffy and may take Yamato in a different direction entirely. We'll have to wait and see what happens with Pluton.
That is a good way to put Yamato's "dream": unevolved
The closest I suppose one could say Yamato's dream was to open Wano's borders, something she told Luffy when they first met, but the fact that she hasn't brought it up now that she has had her freedom could imply just how much she cared about it, and may have only said so because it made her feel closer to the freedom she so desperately craved.
In fact, the fact that Oda had Whitebeard test Oden about his motives to sail with him might apply to Wano as well. Whitebeard didn't want anyone selfish sailing with him, someone who would just use him as a boat ride at the risk of clashing with his crew due to selfishness.
And then Oden gradually developed from sailing out just to be free to having a desire to seek answers at Laugh Tale, possibly if it meant helping Wano in the process.
When put like that, going to Laugh Tale to help your country out is pretty noble, much more so than sailing out just to be partying and drinking day and night.
So if Yamato is on a path like Oden's, then I suppose we could anticipate growing sentimentally close with Wano, or at least Momo, in a way that will feel more noble and sentimental by the time she leaves, if it's for the purpose of furthering the country's progress somehow. That way, she'd be acting on a dream that's intimately close to her, as opposed to just having the illusion of a dream only meant to validate her sense of freedom.
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I think Yamato's dream is no more generic than Usopps dream of becoming a brave warrior. Because what does that mean exactly? Usopp has shown plenty of bravery over the course of the series so at what point does it push him over into be a 'brave warrior'? Will we have a moment in the final arc where his Dad tells his son he's a brave warrior and that's it? Or will it be left open-ended? In comparison, even if Yamato's dream is just 'to escape Wano and see the whole world', that's at least a tangible dream we can follow (it also works nicely with Nami and Franky's dreams, which requires them both to go across the whole world).
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"Find the secrets of what Oden ripped out of his journal and was unwilling to share with the world" can be a component.
And
"Help Luffy with his secret true dream that made Yamato cry and compare him to Roger" whatever that entails.
I suppose aside from power scaling and needing to keep a powerhouse of that level off the crew for just a bit longer, that could be yet another reason to hold off on having Yams in the crew. Luffy told everyone in a shocking off-camera way but if Yamato was around there might be the constant issue of going on about that.
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I feel like Yamato knowing Luffy's dream is a sign in his favour. This is the one issue Vivi has imo, she doesn't know so when will she find out? It does feel like Oda purposefully left out Luffy sharing his dream with the Straw Hats until they were all there and on the ship.
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Yamato has a strong case for joining the crew, but before that happens he should get access to a time machine. In the meantime, whenever Yamato is not on screen, the other characters should be wondering: "Where's Yamato??"
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In the meantime, Yamato should see if he can find a character arc too, because just a time machine won't do.
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@Dragon-D-Luffy said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
Yamato should see if he can find a character arc too
Yamato cover stories, lets gooooooo
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@Robby said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
"Find the secrets of what Oden ripped out of his journal and was unwilling to share with the world" can be a component.
And
"Help Luffy with his secret true dream that made Yamato cry and compare him to Roger" whatever that entails.
I suppose aside from power scaling and needing to keep a powerhouse of that level off the crew for just a bit longer, that could be yet another reason to hold off on having Yams in the crew. Luffy told everyone in a shocking off-camera way but if Yamato was around there might be the constant issue of going on about that.
Yamato struggled against someone like Ace and Oda had Koby kick the ass of an Emperor’s Titanic Captain after all, so if there is the smallest possibility that it’s Yamato’s fault for being “too strong”, then Oda can fix that up in no time. He even had Sanji go from getting his ass kicked by Doflamingo to kicking Queen’s ass, so powering-up is no problem for Oda he can solve anytime.
But yeah, I can totally see the missing journal info coming into play for Yamato’s motivation for setting sail to sea.
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@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
I think Yamato's dream is no more generic than Usopps dream of becoming a brave warrior. Because what does that mean exactly? Usopp has shown plenty of bravery over the course of the series so at what point does it push him over into be a 'brave warrior'? Will we have a moment in the final arc where his Dad tells his son he's a brave warrior and that's it? Or will it be left open-ended? In comparison, even if Yamato's dream is just 'to escape Wano and see the whole world', that's at least a tangible dream we can follow (it also works nicely with Nami and Franky's dreams, which requires them both to go across the whole world).
The idea of a dream being “seeing the whole world” isn’t inherently bad, but considering everyone on the crew is basically doing that in addition to their own dreams and Oden himself going from just seeing island and partying at sea to being motivated to find answers for Wano feels like there should be more to it than “just seeing the world.”
The Straw Hats also shared their dreams with a family figure they bonded with, so they’re dreams they’re not just doing for themselves, but for others they care for. And Yamato just seeing islands would ultimately feel like she’s just doing it for herself, especially since she never actually bonded with Oden.
Some may say that’s fine, as there’s nothing inherently wrong with seeing the world as a dream, but to have 10 other Straw Hats having something more specific than just sailing and seeing the world, and one only having that, I can’t help but feel there’s something off there.
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Just want to point out Jinbe has never explicitly mentioned a dream of wanting to unite humans and fishmen as far as I could recall. People always bring that up given it’s a collective Fishman ideal. I always saw Jinbe joining the crew to be to not be burdened with all that and keep following the ideals of the Fishmen race and just sailing for himself on the Straw Hat crew. That’s been his whole arc how he always carries the burden of others and has been worn down by it.
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@Gizmo it’s a good point, Jinbe never stated a goal, but I think it’s implied he’s still following Otohime’s ideals, as his experiences with both Tiger (who said Otohime was right in the end) and Otohime molded him.
I just think he didn’t declare that dream because he doesn’t see himself as the one that can make it true. He sees Otohime’s children and Luffy as the ones to do that, and that’s why he chose to follow Luffy.
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@Gizmo said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
Just want to point out Jinbe has never explicitly mentioned a dream of wanting to unite humans and fishmen as far as I could recall. People always bring that up given it’s a collective Fishman ideal. I always saw Jinbe joining the crew to be to not be burdened with all that and keep following the ideals of the Fishmen race and just sailing for himself on the Straw Hat crew. That’s been his whole arc how he always carries the burden of others and has been worn down by it.
A Straw Hat’s dream is usually inherited/shared with someone who was intimately close with them, so whatever Fisher Tiger’s dream was is also Jinbe’s dream. And the goal of wanting friendship/coexistence between humans and fishman is enough of a dream for Jinbe to chase and follow Luffy for.
He feels this will bring freedom to fishmen after all, so of course that’s what’s motivating him to do all this as a Straw Hat.
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Yeah, see, New World knowledge is crap. Did not recall the conversation Jinbe gave to his crew at all.
What I recall more are the pages after
His life choices were always about doing things for other people. Feel like it’s more meaningful if he was doing this for himself and not for the Fishmen. Though I guess the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
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@Gizmo said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
Yeah, see, New World knowledge is crap. Did not recall the conversation Jinbe gave to his crew at all.
His life choices were always about doing things for other people. Feel like it’s more meaningful if he was doing this for himself and not for the Fishmen. Though I guess the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
Yeah, and there’s also this:
With the Sun Pirates, I think it goes back to each of the Straw Hats having some surrogate family encouraging them to live out their dreams. Nojiko being like a sister to Nami, Zeff being like a dad to Sanji, Iceburg being like a brother to Franky, etc. Those fishermen were like brothers to Jinbe, especially Aladine, and after everything they did, they only felt it was right for him to live out his desire to sail with Luffy to accomplish his dream of achieving coexistence and freedom for Fishmen, as opposed to just staying behind with them.
In fact, that's prob a big driving reason why Oda had Yamato stay in Wano, not just to make up for Momo's failure, but for her to gain a surrogate family who'd encourage her to embrace the freedom at sea and accomplish whatever dream and goal she'd have.
When looking back at scenes like Iceburg and the Franky Family encouraging Franky not to suppress his dream and stay behind on Water 7, or Sanji's tearful farewell, Yamato becoming intimate with Momo and the Scabbards in such a way that they'll encourage her to live out her freedom at sea and sharing a desire with Momo to find out more info on Wano and sailing out to find out the answers makes sense to me.
Because I think about it like this: if Yamato had sailed out in Chapter 1057, then there's really nobody she could have said goodbye to that she could have really gotten to known as like her own surrogate family.
So after some period of time where Yamato bonds with Momo and the others, it would then make Yamato's departure from Wano more sentimental and emotional, like Sanji's departure, as opposed to just wanting to get off of Wano as soon as possible.
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@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
I think Yamato's dream is no more generic than Usopps dream of becoming a brave warrior. Because what does that mean exactly? Usopp has shown plenty of bravery over the course of the series so at what point does it push him over into be a 'brave warrior'? Will we have a moment in the final arc where his Dad tells his son he's a brave warrior and that's it? Or will it be left open-ended? In comparison, even if Yamato's dream is just 'to escape Wano and see the whole world', that's at least a tangible dream we can follow (it also works nicely with Nami and Franky's dreams, which requires them both to go across the whole world).
See, folks keep saying that they want Yamato to have a character arc that's different from Oden's and makes him less like Oden, but when it comes to his dream suddenly going around the world isn't enough. Now they say he does need to be like Oden and have his dream shift at some point. You gotta pick a lane.
I'm joking a little with that but I don't think his dream doesn't need to be anything grand. Nami, Franky, Brook and most likely Robin, Luffy and Sanji's dreams will all be achieved simply by travelling the whole world. Also, the idea that they're doing their dreams for other people isn't entirely true as Nami's not doing her dream for Bellemere and Usopp's not doing it for, or has ever told, Yasopp.
And if we want to get down to it, Yamato did tell his dream to the Daimyo, who sacrificed themselves to give Yamato freedom, and to Ace, which is what led Yamato to Luffy specifically. Oden might be who Yamato wants to be like but he's not the character he bonded with.
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@black-leg-jex said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
I'm joking a little with that but I don't think his dream doesn't need to be anything grand. Nami, Franky, Brook and most likely Robin, Luffy and Sanji's dreams will all be achieved simply by travelling the whole world. Also, the idea that they're doing their dreams for other people isn't entirely true as Nami's not doing her dream for Bellemere and Usopp's not doing it for, or has ever told, Yasopp.
Well I look at it like this:
Luffy, Zoro, Usopp want a title: Pirate King, World’s Greatest Swordsman, Brave Warrior of the Sea
Nami wants to complete an object: a map
Sanji and Brook want to go to a specific place: All-Blue, Reverse Mountain
Chopper wants to gain a skill: to cure any disease
Robin wants to accumulate knowledge: the True History
Franky wants to get gratification: seeing a ship he built having sailed any sea to the ends of the earth
Jinbe wants to achieve a certain status quo: to eliminate wars and slavery between humans and fishman so that they can co-exist
Now what specific goal would Yamato have after she went to sea that’s comparable to gaining a title, or gaining a skill, or accumulating knowledge?
I agree there’s truth that not every dream needs to be big and grandiose, but I don’t think it can be simplified to just traveling the world. Otherwise, we might as well say they all have the same dream.
Also, I gotta figure Nami is partially doing it for Bellemere. Nami even drew an island, and then Bellemere not only praised her for her drawing, but also encouraged her as a mother that she could achieve her dream someday.
Similar thing with Usopp. His mother on her deathbed told him that she wished she could see him become a brave pirate at sea like how her husband was, and that further motivated Usopp to become a brave warrior of the sea just like him someday.
Now, if Yamato sailed out with a specific goal like finding answers as to why Wano’s borders should be opened for Joy Boy, something Momo also asked, then I think that would be better for her character in the long run. I could see Momo encouraging Yamato to chase out her dreams at sea and find answers, similar to how Franky was encouraged to go to sea by Iceburg. I could even see Momo fighting Yamato to prove his worth as the defender shogun of Wano, since Momo is pretty motivated to surpass Oden as well.
And I'm not saying Yamato has to be like Oden either. Yamato can be inspired by Oden without needing to copy him like trying to be Momo's replacement dad. lol
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I don't want Yamato to have a character arc that is different from Oden's.
I want him to have a character arc. That's it.
Yamato is a one-dimensional character. He doesn't have conflict. He doesn't grow or change. He doesn't learn anything. He doesn't lose or gain anything. If there was a story about how he decided to become Oden, we certainly didn't see it.
I'm not even saying this in the sense that it's some requirement for him to join the crew (because that ship is long sailed, figuratively and literally), it's just a requirement for him to be at least as interesting of a character as say, Gaimon. Who got better writing in his one chapter than Yamato did in the 70 or so ones he had.
Yamato's writing is so bare bones he lowkey seems like he was created by Tite Kubo.
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Fair points all around.
I do think Yamato's dream is more SH-like than anything related to "The Dawn" or "Luffy is Nika" stuff. I just feel that Oda landing on "wants to see the world" after x amounts of years working on a final crew member, is kind of weak. If Oda is satisfied with it, that's all that matters at the end of the day.
I do think we'll see a character arc when the times comes, if Yamato is the final crew member. What that could be depends on if you want the Oden stuff to stay or not.
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@Zin-Magala said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 10 - Egghead):
Fair points all around.
I do think Yamato's dream is more SH-like than anything related to "The Dawn" or "Luffy is Nika" stuff. I just feel that Oda landing on "wants to see the world" after x amounts of years working on a final crew member, is kind of weak. If Oda is satisfied with it, that's all that matters at the end of the day.
I do think we'll see a character arc when the times comes, if Yamato is the final crew member. What that could be depends on if you want the Oden stuff to stay or not.
It's interesting, because I originally suspected Yamato would gain another dream that was something like liberating everyone, given how she was chained up in the past, and assisting Joy Boy.
And then I come to find Bonney's story in which her dad Kuma was enslaved and wanted both himself and Bonney to be free, like how Nika was. Given how Kuma told Bonney he wanted to liberate everyone like how Nika would, maybe she'll be inspired to inherit and act on that dream as well.