Definitely oda plot-device to make it so they don't go after vivi. If anyone else in crew, they would go. Making zoro the bad guy is also mehhhh especially after Luffy used the same reasoning for Ace and THAT turned out well...
Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream
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@DarkHamster said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
Definitely oda plot-device to make it so they don't go after vivi. If anyone else in crew, they would go. Making zoro the bad guy is also mehhhh especially after Luffy used the same reasoning for Ace and THAT turned out well...
Ya really think so? Zoro talked about needing a lead and Bonney is probably the best lead they'll have since she could provide a first-person account as to what exactly happened with Vivi. The fate of where Luffy and the others will go next may very well depend on what she says.
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@Captain-M said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
Interestingly, the island doesn't seem to have been targeted because of Sabo's presence. So are the other seven kingdoms also in a state of active revolt about to be nuked as well? Or perhaps they already have been.
Yes this scene is really weird. It really makes little sense to me that Im wants to destroy an island just because of a revolt. I don't think those 8 nations are the first ones the revolutionaries gain to their side.
Also being wiped from history seems like an excessive punishment contrary to Sabo revealing the existence of Im which is an ultimate taboo -
@Kdom We've definitely got a bit still to learn about Im's motives and what exactly justifies such a move.
Maybe the world moving into a "great cleansing" and change of equilibrium from the Elders' meeting with Im at the Reverie is making them more willing to take drastic measures. If there's a plan to push the world into a new era, the time for secrecy may be up, or it might be worth the risk to ensure only peoples they can trust to be servile will make it through the transition.
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Yes unfortunately with the arrival of Bonney, it seems we are entering the end of this inter-arc and I'm not sure we will have more news on Im and Sabo until a long time
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You know eventually we have to catch up with our boy Urouge, he's the only Supernova we don't have a bead on.
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Seeing as how many people truly enjoyed the chapter you guys might want to skip this post because it's going to get ugly. That being said, I'll examine the good and the bad first.
The Good:
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Caribou in the barrel. I like that we went straight to the chains without even showing the crew noticing him and pinning him down. It just gives off a great "business as usual" feel. Nice invironmental storytelling there.
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Even Luffy calling out the Buggy being an Emperor thing as nonesense. Don't get wrong, I've accepted the explenation Oda provided. But it's nice that the protagonists is actually annoyed as he was actually directly involved in opening up two Emperor spots. So being annoyed that somebody else claimed a spot without having done anything is a natural reaction IMO.
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Ancient Friggin' Weapon in action. It was so long in the making and I have to say I'm not disappointed. Heck, we didn't even see it but we saw what we can do. To me there is just something like primal fear that always scares the shit out of me when an entire population is vanquished in an instant. The last time I was hit that much was with Xerxes in FMA.
The Bad:
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Zoro's reasoning on why Luffy shouldn't go. I have no problems with Zoro stopping Luffy and having him assess the situation. Many things he says are also right. Going to Arabasta makes no sense. Think before acting makes sense. But the Ace thing is argument that doesn't work with how the Ace situation concluded.
Imagine you find yourself in a situation where you wanted to help a person you like/love be they family or friends and you decide against it because you trust them. And then a couple of days later you find out how serious that trouble actually is and you go to help them, only to fail at the finish line. Wouldn't it eat you up thinking "I should have gone a few days ago when I heard it first"? There's no way a person wouldn't have those regrets in this situation.
And with Ace time actually was of the essense. He missed Ace in Impel Down by what can be only a few hours. Having gone there a few days earlier would have changed so much. I'm aware that he wouldn't have had Hancock to help. I'm not talking about the logistics but about the feeling of regret. And if something bad happens because you were late, then timing is an intergral part of regret. So with these feelings being part of Luffy, the "think about the Ace situation" is the wrong approach to talk sense into him. -
Robin keeping important detail out for plot convenience. That's pretty much it. No more in deep things I have to say about this one.
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Luffy being seperated from the crew yet again. Can we for once just have the full team just land on an island and make port as they used to in the good old days. I guess these days I have to be thankful that we saw this happen a whole whopping two times in Punk Hazard and Dressrosa. Also I fail to see the blown away thing to be that much of a hassle for Luffy who can Gear 4th walk on air or for Sanji who could Air Walk after them.
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Keeping the dream under wraps still. If you call a chapter 'Luffy's Dream' then reveal the dream. Because if not all you're doing it is a) only hyping up more which doesn't need to be hyped up anyways and b) you're creating this awkward situation where the crew didn't know about Luffy's dream for so long.
The Ugly
Luffy's DREAM! This secret that we are not meant find out is Luffy's actual dream. That and not to become Pirate King, not to have the most freedom in the world, but this! I had no problems with this secret the way it was handled up until this chapter. It was just an oath between brothers that simply added another layer to the Pirate King thing. But now, twice in this chapter it is said that becoming Pirate King is a minimum requirement to achieve his dream.
To put it in gamer terms. Becoming Pirate King is not the end goal of the quest anymore as it seemed until now. From this moment on the title of Pirate King is the super rare quest item that will enable you to beat the game and claim your reward. Come on Oda!
I know this is not a deal breaker to you. And yes, I know, it doesn't change the direction of the manga in the slightest. But it's just yet another "whoever said the Espada go from 1 to 10" moment Oda pulls. The story always made a big deal about the importance of dreams. All the main characters have clearly defined dreams, Luffy doesn't kill but crushes the bad guys' dreams and he always claims that he's going to become the PK (in the anime even at the end of each episode preview). And now after two and a half decades and more than 1,000 chapters not only were we mislead by what his dream was, we actually still don't have a single clue what the main protagonists real dream actually is. If you are fine with this then that's ok. But to me that's just a letdown.
The only thing I can conclude out of this however is, that this secret cannot (or shall not be) something as trivial as a big party or freedom for everyone. It has to be something ridiculous you purposely hide because revealing it at beginning of the story would create completely different expectations of where the story is going to be. The only thing I can think of is now in fact going to the moon, respectively space travel.
Just think about the situation you would find yourself in as a young Oda who wants to launch a series that's hopefully running for a few years but has no audience yet. You have two one shots and then chapter 1 which all show a boy who wants to be pirate in what seems to be a colonial times setting. And then you say the protagonists dream is to go to the moon/space. You would create a complete different set of expectations of the story. People would think spacetravel is a core element. They would think, that's an interesting mix of genres. They would want to know how space travel connects to colonial times. So Oda would have to write a completely different story to meet those expectations. Or he just proceeds as he did, risking to alienate all the readers that picked the story up because of that premise. So better leave them in the dark and reveal it at a later point.
If that's the reason than I can understand why we to keep it a secret. But that doesn't mean that I agree with the approach. A more elegant way would have been to make clear from the get go that there's an additional layer to becoming PK and that this is his endgoal. This story is already build on a mystery, namely the mystery what One Piece actually is. I you just add "I need One Piece to achieve my dream" you wouldn't take away from the treasure at all. It could have been an easy throwaway line. Have the dialog play out like this:
Luffy: "I'm gonna be Pirate King!"
Shanks: "Hahaha, why would a runt like you want to be a pirate anyway?"
Luffy: "Because I'm gonna ...."That's it. Enter secret right there. People know from the get go that there's a deeper motivation. Also you create an additional mystery the audience wants to see solved. But nope, we go "Espada 0 Yammy Riyalgo" all over again, which just is a downer to me so close after the entire Nika fruit dumpsterkubo.
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@Kdom said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
Yes unfortunately with the arrival of Bonney, it seems we are entering the end of this inter-arc and I'm not sure we will have more news on Im and Sabo until a long time
Ah, but One Piece is said to end in 3 years, so we might get that news rather quick.
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Just realized that Usopp didn't become a crybaby like the other 4 that resorted to name-calling.
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@Cockycent said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
Just realized that Usopp didn't become a crybaby like the other 4 that resorted to name-calling.
His cowardice is the voice of reason, no way in hell he would ever advocate to set foot in Mariejoie, not even for Vivi.
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
Caribou in the barrel. I like that we went straight to the chains without even showing the crew noticing him and pinning him down. It just gives off a great "business as usual" feel. Nice invironmental storytelling there.
So that's what it was ? I read it as Caribou once again stowing away unnoticed in a barrel - which is a nice callback already. But the implied pindown gives his status an even nicer spin.
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Do you not remember this dream of Luffy being alluded to way back in the Ace and Sabo flashback…???
You raise some fair points but it’s quite clear you forgot that even Shanks allluded to this other dream of Luffy when he said “he said the same words the captain said..!” And this wasn’t referring to becoming the Pirate King.
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I literally said "I had no problems with this secret the way it was handled up until this chapter. It was just an oath between brothers that simply added another layer to the Pirate King thing."
Meaning yes, I do not only remember but I specifically address that part in my previous post. The oath was there but it never seemed to be more than another layer to the Pirate King thing. Shanks' words to Rayleigh strike me as the same. However in this very chapter it turns out you need to be "at least Pirate King" (Franky) and that Luffy will "maybe" (Luffy) be possible once he's Pirate King. Thus becoming Pirate King now is the minimum requirement for Luffy's dream, which is a completely different outlook on the situation as it has been before.
For decades we've been lead to believe that Luffy's dream is to become Pirate King. Every Strawhat has their clearly defined dream. Zoro wants to be the strongest swordsman, Nami wants her map etc. And Luffy wants to become Pirate King. That's even the thing they declared before entering the Grand Line. Luffy is constantly declaring this throughout his adventures, "kaizoku-ou ni ore wa naru" is pretty much an engrained statement in the collective pop culture memory of Japan even if people have never watched a single episode or read a single chapter of One Piece. People know what this means. If you frame your story like this, then you clearly are giving off the impression that Luffy's dream is to become Pirate King. It's not the audiences fault for coming to this conclusion. It's the author's framing of the entire dream thing. Every main character has a clearly defined goal the audience knows about. We were never lead to believe that we don't Luffy's true dream until this very chapter.
Let's imagine a conversation between two friends, one trying to convince the other to give One Piece a try:
Conversation 1
Now picture the same conversation with the new info from chapter 1060:
Conversation 2
I hope I was able to get the point across, that the introduction of this mystery happening much earlier is not my main problem. It's that it suddenly makes becoming Pirate King not the main goal anymore. It just became a means to an end. And that's not what it was for so long.
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
- Robin keeping important detail out for plot convenience. That's pretty much it. No more in deep things I have to say about this one.
You mean not telling Luffy about Koby?
"There will be an answer, let it be."
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"Luffy, remember what you said about Ace, you know the guy that ended up dead beacuse everybody who could help him waited till the last possible minute to try and save him. It's the same thing here, the only difference being that Ace was an experienced pirate who could destroy a fleet with a single fart, while Vivi is a disney princess who rides a duck into battle and is currently traumatized for witnessing her father's murder. She'll be probably fine on her own"
The crew wasn't happy, but Zoro's flawless argumentation was indisputable, so they moved on.Curiosity has its own reason for existing
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@Seafarer33
At least that's what I took it for. I see no other reason to have the chains there. I mean he surely has snuck up in the barrel but he most certainly got noticed again easily.@Zhenja
I mean whoever that might be refering too. Koby, Hancock or somebody else we don't even know. Just feels unnatural to be like "there's other people mentioned related to you but I'm gonna select which one I will tell you about." -
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
I literally said "I had no problems with this secret the way it was handled up until this chapter. It was just an oath between brothers that simply added another layer to the Pirate King thing."
Meaning yes, I do not only remember but I specifically address that part in my previous post. The oath was there but it never seemed to be more than another layer to the Pirate King thing. Shanks' words to Rayleigh strike me as the same. However in this very chapter it turns out you need to be "at least Pirate King" (Franky) and that Luffy will "maybe" (Luffy) be possible once he's Pirate King. Thus becoming Pirate King now is the minimum requirement for Luffy's dream, which is a completely different outlook on the situation as it has been before.
For decades we've been lead to believe that Luffy's dream is to become Pirate King. Every Strawhat has their clearly defined dream. Zoro wants to be the strongest swordsman, Nami wants her map etc. And Luffy wants to become Pirate King. That's even the thing they declared before entering the Grand Line. Luffy is constantly declaring this throughout his adventures, "kaizoku-ou ni ore wa naru" is pretty much an engrained statement in the collective pop culture memory of Japan even if people have never watched a single episode or read a single chapter of One Piece. People know what this means. If you frame your story like this, then you clearly are giving off the impression that Luffy's dream is to become Pirate King. It's not the audiences fault for coming to this conclusion. It's the author's framing of the entire dream thing. Every main character has a clearly defined goal the audience knows about. We were never lead to believe that we don't Luffy's true dream until this very chapter.
Let's imagine a conversation between two friends, one trying to convince the other to give One Piece a try:
Conversation 1
Now picture the same conversation with the new info from chapter 1060:
Conversation 2
I hope I was able to get the point across, that the introduction of this mystery happening much earlier is not my main problem. It's that it suddenly makes becoming Pirate King not the main goal anymore. It just became a means to an end. And that's not what it was for so long.
I'm sorry but this comparison of two conversations you wrote, where one is clearly just to validate opinion on this matter doesn't help your point. This isn't a real conversation that happens of someone trying to get someone into One Piece.
This is like complaining about Naruto not understanding politics while his dream was the ninja version of "mayor of New York City". And his not understanding the full scope of the position he dreamed was something pointed out very clearly, because HIS reasoning to become Hokage was 'I want to protect the village and for them to respect me", something he gained well before becoming Hokage.
Yeah, if I had a conversation to someone about getting into Naruto and went off about how he wants to be the strongest Ninja in the village, but actually there's more politics to it and by the end he earns what he wanted without the position, but actually grows to understand and encompass the reality of that position as a mature politician, it would probably make the series sound like shit.
"B: "So, it is not his dream but a requirement for his dream then?"
A: "Yes."So what?
Nami's dream is "Map the world". We very clearly know that by the end of the main narrative , we will not have seen her going to every inch of the globe personally mapping it.
A requirement of Nami's dream is to reach Lodestar and Laughtale, places not mapped. Are you going to complain at the end of the series how we didn't see Nami mapping uncharted islands in South Blue?
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@Alfiere said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
"Luffy, remember what you said about Ace, you know the guy that ended up dead beacuse everybody who could help him waited till the last possible minute to try and save him.
I'm sorry, "the guy that ended up dead beacuse everybody who could help him waited"?
That's not what happened in the manga. At all. What manga are you reading?
The ONLY people who knew what was going on with Ace and hesitated was the Strawhats, because of Luffy's choice to let Ace live his own life. He didn't know the circumstances of his capture. And Luffy only knew -and refused to help him- because of the Vivrecard. Nobody else knew he was in danger until the World Government announced his public execution. And as soon as that happened, Whitebeard and 40 other New World Crews strolled into Marineford.
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@Md-Martin
It was just a made up conversation on the spot to explain a point. Of course it is not PhD material. The point is that with all the emphasis Oda has put into the value of dreams, it now turns out that we actually don't know whta the main protagonists dream is.Also about the Ace matter. Luffy literally missed Ace in Impel Down by hours at best. Any normal human who went through the same thing as Luffy back then would have regrets along the lines of "if I just went sooner". That was the point Alfiere was making.
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@Md-Martin
Sorry mate, but I'm not gonna discuss with you the various reasons how somebody might develop an interest into a series if that's where you try to derail this discussion. -
@Md-Martin said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
@Alfiere said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
"Luffy, remember what you said about Ace, you know the guy that ended up dead beacuse everybody who could help him waited till the last possible minute to try and save him.
I'm sorry, "the guy that ended up dead beacuse everybody who could help him waited"?
That's not what happened in the manga. At all. What manga are you reading?
The ONLY people who knew what was going on with Ace and hesitated was the Strawhats, because of Luffy's choice to let Ace live his own life. He didn't know the circumstances of his capture. And Luffy only knew -and refused to help him- because of the Vivrecard. Nobody else knew he was in danger until the World Government announced his public execution. And as soon as that happened, Whitebeard and 40 other New World Crews strolled into Marineford.
You kinda missed the point.
That being Zoro's bizarre choice for examples of good practice.
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
@Md-Martin
Sorry mate, but I'm not gonna discuss with you the various reasons how somebody might develop an interest into a series if that's where you try to derail this discussion."Derail"
To quote you:
"Let's imagine a conversation between two friends, one trying to convince the other to give One Piece a try:"
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It sucks when you explain your point properly and still have people concentrating on semantics.
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@Ivotas your take on the situation makes more sense. On my first reading I shrugged off the chains as "cool design" and then went on to notice how weird it was that Luffy & Sanji could feel Bonney inside the water current from afar while Caribou had remained under their very noses unnoticed. If he has already been caught and locked and no-one's paying him any attention because of that, then it all works much better plus the repetition gag is improved as well.
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@Razh
Yeah, not claiming I'm always making the best of examples but this is getting ridiculous. It's not just in response to my post. Just check the nonesense in response to Alfiere's post, which made perfect sense but apparently the term "everybody" got blown way out of proportion. I just put the guy on block as I don't see any constructive discussion comming from them. -
@Cyan-D-Funk wings, uranus, lunarians, enel's return, endgame, yeah, he's going to be back 10 to 20 chapters tops. One Piece's new world has basically been "Luffy conveniently stumbles into every supernova off his shopping list" arc after arc.
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@Ivotas You end up just wasting time and going around in circles. Oh, I don't completely agree with you, for example, but it's not really worth debating at length. Can see where it's coming from.
Oh, btw, the panel with Franky asking if this Sabo dude is the guy they met at Dressrosa, irked the hell out of me. Do we really need a reminder of how shitty things are on Sunny, Oda, at least let us delude ourselves into thinking these people actually talk over tea or meals. For fuck sake...
Yeah, I'm exaggerating the point a little, but it's still a weird choice for comment. Especially when you consider Franky could have said anything Oda wanted. "Damn, hope your bro is ok Luffy, he seems like a great guy!"
At least he remembered the name!
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@Razh
Agreed. Btw I don't mind constructive talk so I'd gladly hear you out. But if you don't feel it's not worth getting into it that's totally fine too.Now that you mention it, that really is a weird unnatural line clearly aimed at the readers kinda like "hey remember, they actually met". Make that one more for the bad parts about the chapter for me then.
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By the way, these last few chapters of the strawhats tasting a tiny bit of agency again after ages felt nice (they still didn't actually choose the route on their own, but at least they went at their own pace), too bad the mandatory supernova already came to put the leash back on, but it was expected.
Cocerning the secret dream thingie... I personally just don't care for it in the least right now. I would, if I felt I could trust Oda that one can actually guess what it is through careful reading of the story, text, subtext, charachter reactions, etc.
But right now i'm just assuming is something completely out of left field meant to be a Big Surprise Noone Guessed. And it's not interesting. -
I'm pretty sure we are up to some confusion shenanigans ahead. Like Luffy, Chopper and Bonney (and I'd guess Sanji somehow) separating from the crew,
I guess we are into a short arc before the crew reunites and gets acquainted with Bonney, who leads it to the real next arc. Meanwhile, world stuff keeps building up so every piece is in place for the big story ahead.
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@Razh The fact that the line ends with a '?!!' when the rest of the wording is so mild makes me think the intended tone got lost in translation somewhere.
"This can't be the same Sabo we met in Dressrosa!!!" or a similar wording would feel more in line with the number of exclamation points and Frank's expression, while indicating a bit more of a logical familiarity.
But that's all speculative, I've got no ability to confirm it against the original Japanese...
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
Seeing as how many people truly enjoyed the chapter you guys might want to skip this post because it's going to get ugly. That being said, I'll examine the good and the bad first.
The Good:
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Caribou in the barrel. I like that we went straight to the chains without even showing the crew noticing him and pinning him down. It just gives off a great "business as usual" feel. Nice invironmental storytelling there.
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Even Luffy calling out the Buggy being an Emperor thing as nonesense. Don't get wrong, I've accepted the explenation Oda provided. But it's nice that the protagonists is actually annoyed as he was actually directly involved in opening up two Emperor spots. So being annoyed that somebody else claimed a spot without having done anything is a natural reaction IMO.
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Ancient Friggin' Weapon in action. It was so long in the making and I have to say I'm not disappointed. Heck, we didn't even see it but we saw what we can do. To me there is just something like primal fear that always scares the shit out of me when an entire population is vanquished in an instant. The last time I was hit that much was with Xerxes in FMA.
The Bad:
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Zoro's reasoning on why Luffy shouldn't go. I have no problems with Zoro stopping Luffy and having him assess the situation. Many things he says are also right. Going to Arabasta makes no sense. Think before acting makes sense. But the Ace thing is argument that doesn't work with how the Ace situation concluded.
Imagine you find yourself in a situation where you wanted to help a person you like/love be they family or friends and you decide against it because you trust them. And then a couple of days later you find out how serious that trouble actually is and you go to help them, only to fail at the finish line. Wouldn't it eat you up thinking "I should have gone a few days ago when I heard it first"? There's no way a person wouldn't have those regrets in this situation.
And with Ace time actually was of the essense. He missed Ace in Impel Down by what can be only a few hours. Having gone there a few days earlier would have changed so much. I'm aware that he wouldn't have had Hancock to help. I'm not talking about the logistics but about the feeling of regret. And if something bad happens because you were late, then timing is an intergral part of regret. So with these feelings being part of Luffy, the "think about the Ace situation" is the wrong approach to talk sense into him. -
Robin keeping important detail out for plot convenience. That's pretty much it. No more in deep things I have to say about this one.
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Luffy being seperated from the crew yet again. Can we for once just have the full team just land on an island and make port as they used to in the good old days. I guess these days I have to be thankful that we saw this happen a whole whopping two times in Punk Hazard and Dressrosa. Also I fail to see the blown away thing to be that much of a hassle for Luffy who can Gear 4th walk on air or for Sanji who could Air Walk after them.
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Keeping the dream under wraps still. If you call a chapter 'Luffy's Dream' then reveal the dream. Because if not all you're doing it is a) only hyping up more which doesn't need to be hyped up anyways and b) you're creating this awkward situation where the crew didn't know about Luffy's dream for so long.
The Ugly
Luffy's DREAM! This secret that we are not meant find out is Luffy's actual dream. That and not to become Pirate King, not to have the most freedom in the world, but this! I had no problems with this secret the way it was handled up until this chapter. It was just an oath between brothers that simply added another layer to the Pirate King thing. But now, twice in this chapter it is said that becoming Pirate King is a minimum requirement to achieve his dream.
To put it in gamer terms. Becoming Pirate King is not the end goal of the quest anymore as it seemed until now. From this moment on the title of Pirate King is the super rare quest item that will enable you to beat the game and claim your reward. Come on Oda!
I know this is not a deal breaker to you. And yes, I know, it doesn't change the direction of the manga in the slightest. But it's just yet another "whoever said the Espada go from 1 to 10" moment Oda pulls. The story always made a big deal about the importance of dreams. All the main characters have clearly defined dreams, Luffy doesn't kill but crushes the bad guys' dreams and he always claims that he's going to become the PK (in the anime even at the end of each episode preview). And now after two and a half decades and more than 1,000 chapters not only were we mislead by what his dream was, we actually still don't have a single clue what the main protagonists real dream actually is. If you are fine with this then that's ok. But to me that's just a letdown.
The only thing I can conclude out of this however is, that this secret cannot (or shall not be) something as trivial as a big party or freedom for everyone. It has to be something ridiculous you purposely hide because revealing it at beginning of the story would create completely different expectations of where the story is going to be. The only thing I can think of is now in fact going to the moon, respectively space travel.
Just think about the situation you would find yourself in as a young Oda who wants to launch a series that's hopefully running for a few years but has no audience yet. You have two one shots and then chapter 1 which all show a boy who wants to be pirate in what seems to be a colonial times setting. And then you say the protagonists dream is to go to the moon/space. You would create a complete different set of expectations of the story. People would think spacetravel is a core element. They would think, that's an interesting mix of genres. They would want to know how space travel connects to colonial times. So Oda would have to write a completely different story to meet those expectations. Or he just proceeds as he did, risking to alienate all the readers that picked the story up because of that premise. So better leave them in the dark and reveal it at a later point.
If that's the reason than I can understand why we to keep it a secret. But that doesn't mean that I agree with the approach. A more elegant way would have been to make clear from the get go that there's an additional layer to becoming PK and that this is his endgoal. This story is already build on a mystery, namely the mystery what One Piece actually is. I you just add "I need One Piece to achieve my dream" you wouldn't take away from the treasure at all. It could have been an easy throwaway line. Have the dialog play out like this:
Luffy: "I'm gonna be Pirate King!"
Shanks: "Hahaha, why would a runt like you want to be a pirate anyway?"
Luffy: "Because I'm gonna ...."That's it. Enter secret right there. People know from the get go that there's a deeper motivation. Also you create an additional mystery the audience wants to see solved. But nope, we go "Espada 0 Yammy Riyalgo" all over again, which just is a downer to me so close after the entire Nika fruit dumpsterkubo.
Agree with most of your bad. Although I think Luffy will just fly back or be saved quickly. Also I think the crew being separated into 2 group when the story starts is fairly common. little garden, drum, jaya, etc... usually Luffy or a group of 3 goes in first and the rest is behind.
I remember having the problem you mentioned with the ugly when Shanks mentioned Luffy said the same thing as the captain. And I felt it was new info to make Luffy similar to Roger that I didnt have and rewrote why I saw Shanks give hope to Luffy. At this point I have learned to accept Oda just adding a bunch of new stuff to Luffy's past that werent initially there. I'm just annoyed that if it was going to be a reveal Oda chose to waste the crew reaction on a tease. Thats cheap.
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@desa
Oh crew splitting up in groups is totally fine as this is what always happened even in the old days. But usually they all make port together and then they decide who goes to do what. Sure Luffy could just fly back but the the question would be why waste panels on him and Chopper flying away on the last page?Fair enough point about accepting things. As a matter of fact that's exactly what I did with the entire Nika fruit fiasco. But now this happens so shortly after it and I don't know, the frequency is a little bit too high for me. Of course it will sink in. But right now that one really bothers me. I do hope though that the moon/space reasoning I mention is true. Because that would at least be a good reason to pull something like this off. Not an ideal solution but a valid reason in my book.
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@Alfiere I smell another promotional tie-in for a movie release
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Luffy promised Caribou a ride in thanks for all the meat he provided during the Kaidou fight. He didn't promise a comfy not-locked down seat.
So yeah it just made sense to me that he was locked up in a barrell from the outset.
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
Fair enough point about accepting things. As a matter of fact that's exactly what I did with the entire Nika fruit fiasco. But now this happens so shortly after it and I don't know, the frequency is a little bit too high for me. Of course it will sink in. But right now that one really bothers me. I do hope though that the moon/space reasoning I mention is true. Because that would at least be a good reason to pull something like this off. Not an ideal solution but a valid reason in my book.
Hey sometimes you find that one change thats a sticking point for you. For example I always like the flashbacks as a look of the tragedies that formed the strawhats and the things they can never get back but drives them forward. So I will forever hate Luffy having a flashback where he gained something from it by having a replacement brother. Especially when the first chapter already for his personal tragedy with costing Shanks his arm. Its a weird place to plant a flag but it is where I plant it and I probably will always be irked by Sabo because of it.
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@Robby I thought it was in Udon that Luffy promised Caribou a ride.
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I still have a question. If that was indeed Uranus, it would be over 800 years so I gotta wonder why the 20 kingdoms did not bother to blow Laugh Tale up since the World Government was hellbent in keeping the kingdom out of existence and not be heard or seen about anymore, banning research on Poneglyphs. Since the Pirate age begun, they could've sent that thing to the end of the Grand Line and find Laugh Tale from the skies unless Laugh Tale is surrounded by a wild phenomenon keeping the island from being visible.
Since Lodestar was untouched for 800 years, it could be the location of the Great Kingdom, but if the Great Kingdom was located at Laugh Tale then I wonder how did both islands became inaccessible?
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
Seeing as how many people truly enjoyed the chapter you guys might want to skip this post because it's going to get ugly. That being said, I'll examine the good and the bad first.
The Good:
- Caribou in the barrel. I like that we went straight to the chains without even showing the crew noticing him and pinning him down. It just gives off a great "business as usual" feel. Nice invironmental storytelling there.
Yeah, I imagine the Poseidon and Pluton plot lines will really forward into motion as soon as Caribou gets to an island he can use Den Den Mushi on. After that, more will break loose.
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I doubt the dream of Luffy is going to the moon because Enel went to it without being Pirate King...
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@Kdom said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
I doubt the dream of Luffy is going to the moon because Enel went to it without being Pirate King...
Nah, Luffy's overall dream is to find and set-up his own country of course. Hope he can get pretty far after he manages to get a shot at it.
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So, when an island is erased, what happens to all the log/eternal poses that were pointing to it?
And how do you get the log pose to point to next island now that the island in the path no longer exists?
So many questions…
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
So, when an island is erased, what happens to all the log/eternal poses that were pointing to it?
And how do you get the log pose to point to next island now that the island in the path no longer exists?
So many questions…
We saw something sort of like this in the early part of Film Z, with the destruction of Firs Island - the home of the Marine/WG facility where Zephyr initially stole the Dyna-Stones. It has admittedly been a while, but if memory serves, the needle pointing to that island on the Strawhat's Log Pose promptly went untethered and started spinning uncontrollably, with Nami essentially navigating to where the island used to be (at Luffy's insistence) by way of the massive plume of volcanic ash rising up from the horizon.
Presumably, the destruction of Lulusia would have a similar effect on any Log or Eternal Poses keyed to it. Luckily, assuming that Lulusia being located in the New World is indeed accurate, it would be part of the New World's much more deeply interconnected Log Pose magnetic field network. If every island points to three other islands, it only makes sense that multiple islands might also point to the same destination island, we know all routes eventually converge at Lodestar, but that doesn't mean that routes don't intersect elsewhere as well.
Without love, it cannot be seen.
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@otakufan Lulusia is located in the Paradise
Currently writing a book
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@joekido-the-Second said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
@otakufan Lulusia is located in the Paradise
This chapter claims it's in the New World - admittedly might just be a mistake that will be corrected in the final volume release, but I'm operating under the assumption that this is correct for the moment.
Without love, it cannot be seen.
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If the world government has one of three ancient weapons then why didn't they try to conquer the other half of the grand line ???
instead they got fucking humiliated by the Shogun to agree selling them weapons !!
what a wild fucking world they got over there, none of it make sense
also if u'r x10 times more powerful than Enel then why don't you rule with fear and temerity instead of hiding like a pus ? is it out of respect to other noble families ? that you hide the truth from them ? why would a shit made dictator give respect and homage to lesser nobles? there must be another reason for the concealment. I'm sure of it.
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@otakufan said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
@joekido-the-Second said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
@otakufan Lulusia is located in the Paradise
This chapter claims it's in the New World - admittedly might just be a mistake that will be corrected in the final volume release, but I'm operating under the assumption that this is correct for the moment.
Well it was close to Peach Island where Dragon is so if it's in the New World, shouldn't Sanji be the first to go there?
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What if the WG didn't have access to Uranus until recently?
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@hideoushorrendous said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
If the world government has one of three ancient weapons then why didn't they try to conquer the other half of the grand line ???
Whatever the nature of the thing that destroyed Lulusia, I'm going to assume there are (or at least were) some significant restrictions on its use for one reason or another.
Perhaps Imu, the Gorousei, and their predecessors felt that the best way to achieve their goals was to use their doomsday weapon as sparingly as possible - you can't exactly rule over, or extract wealth from, a nation that you functionally vaporized...
It also pretty much guarantees rebellion. The threat of going full "Death Star" might seem a good way to keep troublesome people in line, but it's also the biggest ultimatum in existence, more or less forcing anyone who doesn't want to live with a proverbial nuke hanging over their head to rise up against it.
@joekido-the-Second said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
@otakufan said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
@joekido-the-Second said in Chapter 1060: Luffy's Dream:
@otakufan Lulusia is located in the Paradise
This chapter claims it's in the New World - admittedly might just be a mistake that will be corrected in the final volume release, but I'm operating under the assumption that this is correct for the moment.
Well it was close to Peach Island where Dragon is so if it's in the New World, shouldn't Sanji be the first to go there?
Might be an "As the Crow Flies" situation - near each other on a map, but still on opposite sides of the Red Line.
