Chapter 1057: The End

realtenchu

@wolfwood
As bad as Ace is, Sabo is honestly worse in quite a few regards. Ace for one wasn't as big of a Luffy fanboy.

I couldn’t stand Ace and his relationship with Luffy. I’m very cool with Sabo.

It’s ok that Ace wasn’t a fanboy, I don’t think people cared about that, but the problem was that the story tried to build Ace as always better than Luffy, always superior, always the big brother to little brother. Ace strong, Luffy weak, Luffy always crying around Ace, Luffy always needing Ace. It was horrendous the entire premise and extremely pitiful on the part of Luffy. Who the heck cares about fanboy, at least don’t make Luffy into this pitiful thing that has to be taken cared of by Big Strong Ace.

Sabo a fanboy?. At least Luffy is not waging his tail behind Sabo looking for attention and help.

andre

@danie Don't forget about Shanks.

wolfwood

It is hard to convey just how cringe Ace was at the time. And how many people furiously jerked off over his try hard brand of kewlness.

danie

@realtenchu What the heck are you talking about? Luffy had the "little brother" relationship with both Ace and Sabo. Sabo was just nicer but he didn't spend as much time with Luffy as Ace did... If it doesn't feel so jarring with Sabo now it's because Luffy caught up to them. Luffy couldn't stay the "little brother" forever.

andre

@wolfwood I don't hate Ace at all because of this. To me, he would be the protagonist in a lesser version of OP. Even with Oda's fumbles, even with Nika, Luffy>>>Ace and most shonen protagonists. Ace is perfect as a side character that dies.

realtenchu

@danie said in Chapter 1057: The End:

@realtenchu What the heck are you talking about? Luffy had the "little brother" relationship with both Ace and Sabo. Sabo was just nicer but he didn't spent as much time with Luffy as Ace did... If it doesn't feel so jarring with Sabo now it's because Luffy caught up to them. He couldn't stay the "little btother" forever.

I didn’t see Luffy mopping around Sabo and always crying. Luffy was a pitiful little chump with Ace and if this had happened before he met shanks it could have been passable but this was after shanks, Luffy was not an innocent little kid anymore add that he also had had Garp’s treatment but they made him into a scared little kid the minute he met Ace. It was a horrible storyline. That Ace Luffy future looked more like Usopp not the Luffy we got at the beginning of the manga.

desa

I liked Ace mostly. He had a really cool entrance in Alabasta and I liked Luffy having someone he looks up and is chill out with. Didnt enjoy him in marine where he wasted everyone's effort and was very emo. Liked the flashback.

Dont like Sabo's existence. Its such a cheap move to go we killing Luffy's older brother but did you know he had another one?

King Cannon

Ace's problem is that his actual character and relationship with Luffy was horribly underdeveloped until the very last moment.

Dude didn't do anything at all in Arabasta besides introducing himself and destroying a bunch of no names. Having a whole volume dedicated to him was the definition of forced, since he wasn't even present for half of it.

Amnesia plot aside, Sabo's concept is pretty much Ace's done right. He does shit, he interacts with Luffy and his friends to a significant degree and grows in parallel with him in terms of strength and infamy. He's a "rival" that's not a rival at all, and it's done in a believable manner.

It also helps that the Revolutionaries are a more compelling set of characters, with several ideologies involved that complement Sabo's own rebel noble background, in comparison to the Whitebeard Pirates where everybody's concerns revolve around the captain. To this day I can't tell what Marco's motivations are that don't involve Ace or Whitebeard to some extent.

realtenchu

Why did we all forget about the big mom pirates?. They couldn’t have gone home, could they?. Where are the big mom pirates?. Maybe Luffy and the others will encounter them a they leave the surrounding of wano.

Deicide

@realtenchu The last we heard of them, their ship was sighted by the CP fleet near Wano. It's implied they attacked the fleet and left.

Razh

@Sengokusgoat said in Chapter 1057: The End:

Well Yamato's build-up for joining the crew basically amounted to 'I wanna join, guys', so it's actually very fitting that the conclusion is 'nah, nevermind'. Really just Poochie from beginning to end, complete with 'sorry, my planet needs me'.

Speaking of Poochie, I really liked those two flashbacks we had of him interacting with Tama and Yamato separately. You know, when they talked about it with Luffy, after they all had time to breathe.

Daz

Huh, I just realized, was there like any capper to the whole Ace subplot in the end? An "now the promise of Ace to liberate the country has finally been fulfilled!", or something like that. I can't even remember the last time his name has come up. But I guess it follows Marcoh not getting any real check-in after...uh...he went "Now its time for Sanji and Zoro to shine!" and stepped back? Was that it? I remember him being in the background of panels now and then, but was that the last thing Marcoh actually did?

On the subject of Poochie, I don't really mind Ace. Remember when his running gag was narcolepsy? Remember when some rando villagers kicked him into a river during the cover story and he almost died? I liked that guy. The goofier sides of his character got pretty buried during Marineford, but the idea of Kid Brother Luffy putting everything on the line to rescue more senior Big Brother Ace is compelling, and you need Aces angst for the emotional payoff of Marineford, Keep him a happy-go-lucky guy even on the execution stand and you gut the arc of its stakes and his character arc.

Seafarer33

@Daz said in Chapter 1057: The End:

Huh, I just realized, was there like any capper to the whole Ace subplot in the end? An "now the promise of Ace to liberate the country has finally been fulfilled!", or something like that.

I don't think so. As far as I can tell, Marco is currently staying at a small inn with a dozen others where they run a session of the Forgotten Subplots Anonymous, drinking tea while sharing memories about Ace's time in Wano and other anecdotes.

Although I think Marco did appear at some point in the epilogue, after the death of Izo was revealed, where he was musing (with Kinemon or maybe the Cat ?) over the fact that once again, he was the one left behind to bury close friends.

Not sure if we heard about him afterwards.

Daz

@Seafarer33 Oh yeah! That did happen. I can't say I remember much of a connection between Marcoh and Izo, but its good that someone mourned him I guess.

Seafarer33

@Daz they both sailed under Whitebeard. That's gotta count.
I found the page by the way, it's in chapter 1052 when Kinemon and Kawamatsu are back in Ringo discussing where they will put a shrine for Oden, Izo and Ashura. Marco is there as well, sitting on the roof of the building.

Daz

@Seafarer33 I know, I get the idea of the connection based on their shared crew, I just think theres not much of a connection actually on the page - at least compared to Kiku, where we get some scraps here and there. Regardless, Izo is a pretty nothing character to me, so while I get the idea of Marcoh at his grave, I'd rather have some reflection from Marcoh on Ace, and the negligence of the Whitebeard pirates regarding Wano being corrected. It could be done in conjunction with his visit to Izos grave, since Izo was also all "yeah we should probably help Wano but what're ya gonna do" flashback

puffing.cinema

I wonder if this Ace hate is from the comic or how the fandom treats him.

Alabasta Ace is a pool of charisma, and Emo Ace from Marineford was a plot device so there it is...

wolfwood

I kept hoping for him to fall asleep on his stupid fireboard and just drown already.

Alfiere

LOL I completely forgot about the fireboard.
Ah, the 90s.

Zanze

I like Sabo and Yamato, but they both wish they were half as fun as Alabasta Ace tbh

King Cannon

@Alfiere Easily one of the most "90's is cool an edgy" things Oda inserted in his work.

Loses only to Volume 6 cover.

Ivotas

The fireboard was all kinds iof awesome. And with all the shit I give Ace for being a miserable excuse for a character since Marineford. I liked his actual design. The Poochieness didn't bother me because upon first introduction, there was still a chance that he woukd actually be well written.

projectfear22

I didn't read this one. Or any chapter, the last I read was when they still were on the dog and cat island. I took some pauses and started watching the anime again. I WAS SO HYPED, the animation was gorgeous. Yamato and Luffies fight animations... simply beautiful. I only waited for Yamato to join as much as I waited for another gear to be shown. Probably even more. I love Yamato that much, the first scene I saw her in, it took only 2 minutes for Yamato to become one of my favorite characters ever.

Fast forward to today... I was searching for Yamato desktop wallpapers only to end up finding a spoiler that she didn't join the crew. As for Momo and Kinemon not joining, I never expected them to anyway. But yeah, I was so sad, so so sad and so furious at this decision. Yamato has a unique design, has a weapon nobody uses in the crew (mace), can transform, is charismatic and is a strong woman overall. Regardless of who wanted who to join, Yamato is top caliber for a crewmate.

I don't understand why miss this opportunity to include such a character in the crew. Hell, Oda... will you be able to draw another character that looks as unique? You're leaving samurai land, those clothes and traditions won't be coming back. Those horns can make a come back but will they? That strong and comedic persona can also be found in a new character. But I am a pessimist by nature and don't think Oda will introduce a better character for the crew, maybe someone on par, but hardly better. I will miss Yamato so much.

And now, since I was spoiled I'll go on and read the manga beause I'm aching right now and the anime has no new episode yet. I feel empty!