Chapter 967: Roger's Adventure

Cockycent

Franky and Kid's crew working together would be interesting. They have that technician/engineer/South Blue thing going on. Heat looks like he's possibly modified himself.

It would be embarrassing if Faust and Bepo didn't transform when most of the Minks do it.

That on the fly teamwork against Oars would be more refined by now. It would be too much for Kaido. Especially after seeing what Nami and Brook did separately and together against hunger pang Linlin. Animal Kingdom Pirates can't go out like this.

MiyamotoMusashi

Also, regarding the "there would be no progression left once he beats Kaidou", this is simply wrong. Whitebeard and Roger have constantly been put on a different pedestal than the rest, so much so that Roger, who actually enjoyed fighting (see the flashback) did not give Big Mom any of his time.

They are basically the highest of the silver medalists, those that could not quite put their stamp on an era as Roger, Whitebeard, and apparently their former captain Rocks did.

Desperado

There is always another Super Saiyan level. :yes:

Johnny B. Decent

I think the best benchmark for Luffy to progress would be able to fight foes like Doflamingo or Katakuri without using G4. So, I imagine the leader of the Numbers will be put up front to show he's now truly at that level, and that he can fight someone like Kaido with somewhat of a chance.

Blissed

@Johnny:

I think the best benchmark for Luffy to progress would be able to fight foes like Doflamingo or Katakuri without using G4. So, I imagine the leader of the Numbers will be put up front to show he's now truly at that level, and that he can fight someone like Kaido with somewhat of a chance.

Or just simply let him injure Kaido with the CoA he's been training specifically to beat Kaido with. I don't see the point in "wasting" a Number on Luffy when there's a much more obvious way to get the message across.

Shiebs

If Luffy owns Kaido all on his own how will they make Black Beard seem like an actual fight by the end of the series? He's obviously the final villain so what do they do to make him a bigger threat? I'm not putting down your theory I'm seriously asking, maybe give him another DF or an ancient weapon to boot

King Cannon

@Johnny:

I think the best benchmark for Luffy to progress would be able to fight foes like Doflamingo or Katakuri without using G4. So, I imagine the leader of the Numbers will be put up front to show he's now truly at that level, and that he can fight someone like Kaido with somewhat of a chance.

He will make true of his foreshadowing and defeat Jack beforehand.

Shiebs

I'd like to see Jinbei vs Jack

StrawHatJedi

@Seafarer33:

Yet I'm pretty certain readers had far more expectations for Roger and Whitebeard than they had for Oden. I know I did, I've been wanting to see these 2 for the best part of a decade whereas Oden was but a vague silhouette until a few months ago.
Besides, we barely see Oden in Oden's flashback. Sure he is on panel all the time, but it's all flashing forward and feels like most events are handled in under a couple pages. So I really wouldn't get my hopes up for a lengthy Shanks and Blackbeard confrontation, unless they're at the center of the final war. But if Shanks has to go before the endgame begins ? I really don't think he can afford 10 chapters. Assuming Oda really wraps up One Piece in 5 years, that's roughly 200 chapters with breaks. Of which 50 could be dedicated to finishing Wano as far as I know, so it seems far-fetched that a whole 10 of the remainder would focus solely on Shanks vs Blackbeard when there's so much left to tell. There will probably be at some point a flashback that explores their shared history, Blackbeard's ties with Rox and Shanks' with the World Gov, but a detailed battle really seems out of reach seeing how much of the storytelling is rushed these days.

I think the idea of the entire series ending in under 200 chapters including Wano is actually crazy. Like, I can't see any possible way without it being the MOST rushed ending of anything… ever. I just don't believe that to be the case. I take the 'five years' thing with a grain of salt. Oda's never been right about his estimates before. No reason to start believing him now.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

So, I don't think Luffy's taking down Kaido one on one. The prophecy was 'nine scabbards.' I think it'll be nine. Luffy, Law, Kidd, Drake... Moria, Katakuri, Marco, Momo, and Tama? I dunno. My guess. Maybe sub in Zoro and/or one of the actual scabbards. Maybe all of the Straw Hats? Either way, 9 vs. 1.

I think Kaido received the immortality operation - and thus can't be killed. Explaining why he survived the massive wound left by Oden. Oden probably won the duel, but failed to kill Kaido because Kaido can't be killed.

Blissed

The operation is for eternal youth, not eternal life.

Jabra

@Shiebs:

If Luffy owns Kaido all on his own how will they make Black Beard seem like an actual fight by the end of the series? He's obviously the final villain so what do they do to make him a bigger threat? I'm not putting down your theory I'm seriously asking, maybe give him another DF or an ancient weapon to boot

Yeah Blackbeard will eat a third fruit, he doesn't feel complete with his current skillset. It's not broken enough yet.

Sure his powers are destructive and tricky, but he's still wide open to attacks. I assume that's why he decided to run from Akainu back then - if one of his magma-moves connect it's game over. Rolling on the floor + screaming won't fix half of your face missing.

So for me the only question is which fruit could cover that weakness while also adding some flavor to Blackbeard himself. Maybe a mythical hippo zoan or something :ninja:.

Shiebs

@Jabra:

Yeah Blackbeard will eat a third fruit, he doesn't feel complete with his current skillset. It's not broken enough yet.

Sure his powers are destructive and tricky, but he's still wide open to attacks. I assume that's why he decided to run from Akainu back then - if one of his magma-moves connect it's game over. Rolling on the floor + screaming won't fix half of your face missing.

So for me the only question is which fruit could cover that weakness while also adding some flavor to Blackbeard himself. Maybe a mythical hippo zoan or something :ninja:.

LOL mythical hippo df for the win

I'd put money on him getting a Zoan DF if he gets a third one

also wouldn't be surprised if he gets one of the ancient weapons

imperioonepiece

@Shiebs:

LOL mythical hippo df for the win

I'd put money on him getting a Zoan DF if he gets a third one

also wouldn't be surprised if he gets one of the ancient weapons

Perhaps the strongest Zoan, which I think it is the dragon fruit.

Luca

How can people say that jack will face anyone else then the minks, when they clearly have a personal grudge.

Also the dragon fruit design recycled into bb would be incredibly cheap.

Blissed

@Luca:

How can people say that jack will face anyone else then the minks, when they clearly have a personal grudge.

Also the dragon fruit design recycled into bb would be incredibly cheap.

Because the Strawhats, especially Luffy, routinely do that. Most obvious example being Luffy finishing off Doffy instead of Law. I would love for the Minks to get their revenge on Jack, but it's definitely not guaranteed.

As for BB getting Kaido's DF, I don't particularly want that either. Buuut, if BB wants a 3rd fruit, and it's supposed to be a Zoan, Kaido's is the one that makes the most sense. The only other alternative that would also work is Marco's. Outside of that, there's no other notable Zoan fruits for BB to steal/find that wouldn't just come off as being completely random.

Roronoa Zacho

Sulong Inu and Neko vs Jack would be rad though.

BB with Dragon-DF sounds cheap, but the dragon-design itself would suit BB pretty well IMO.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Blissed:

(…) The only other alternative that would also work is Marco's. Outside of that, there's no other notable Zoan fruits for BB to steal/find that wouldn't just come off as being completely random.

Marco's DF would make sense in the matter to balance out BB's weakness from the yami yami no mi.
Problem with the Dragon DF is also: in this arc the end boss has this ability. And I guess it won't be many arcs til the fight with BB, so Luffy faces off the same ability quite quick in a row. And this would feel kinda meh.

Sengokusgoat

If the point is to make BB seem undefeatable, there wouldn't be much point in giving him the fruit of an already defeated enemy.

flandrian15

I want Blackbeard to get Foxy's Noro Noro No Mi and put it on defensive use.
Or just slowing down users with the Noro Noro so they are easier to catch with his darkness to then shockwave them in the face while his foe is stuck in slo-mo.

RomanceDawn

So much discussion lately! Reminds me of the old days!

flandrian15

@RomanceDawn:

So much discussion lately! Reminds me of the old days!

Certainly this chapter thread. Previous ones were a bit lackluster. Personally I've not been reading scanlations since a few weeks (don't even know if they're still available) just waiting for the official Viz release and it seems many are doing the same thing if I look at this thread.

uniaka ikuzakas

What about diamond blackbeard. That îs why we didn't see jozu after the battle with BB.

But BB could get all natural disasters. He has quakes, tsunamis, darkness, now he will either get enel's fruit or If dragon has the wind fruit to control storms.

MiyamotoMusashi

Marco´s DF would fit best, outer hardness loses its meaning if you can use the advanced CoA

wolfwood

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Marco´s DF would fit best, outer hardness loses its meaning if you can use the advanced CoA

I suppose you could use your own haki to counter it?

Seafarer33

@Vongola_Boss_XI:

I think the idea of the entire series ending in under 200 chapters including Wano is actually crazy. Like, I can't see any possible way without it being the MOST rushed ending of anything… ever.

I know, right? Until now I was thinking, "okay, five years is a long time so why not", but once you begin to count chapters and try to fill them with ongoing plot threads… No way it can be enough.

@wolfwood:

I suppose you could use your own haki to counter it?

Hey, it's Blackbeard. I'm sure he will manage to find a Haki Haki fruit or some other game breaker somewhere out there

flandrian15

@Seafarer33:

Hey, it's Blackbeard. I'm sure he will manage to find a Haki Haki fruit or some other game breaker somewhere out there

Doesn't he basically have this with the Darkness fruit seeing it cancels devilfruit powers?

RevolutionaryOfThe6Paths

Blackbeard gaining a third DF would be so bad. I hope it doesnt happen.

uniaka ikuzakas

Laffite îs already the bird of the crew, so unless birds îs a theme in the crew, I don't see why they would get another one.And the captain îs the parrot, instead of having one.

MiyamotoMusashi

@wolfwood:

I suppose you could use your own haki to counter it?

If Blackbeard has the same level of Haki when he fights Luffy, the latter can just give up. It´s his only solution to the two or even three most overwhelming abilities.

Would also fit into "spirit vs cunningness" Luffy vs anti-Luffy.

Seafarer33

@flandrian15:

Doesn't he basically have this with the Darkness fruit seeing it cancels devilfruit powers?

Kind of, but he still needs something to provide infinite superior tier haki of the "Mine's better than yours" brand. :ninja:

flandrian15

BB and Luffy's haki will be at the same level so it'll be rendered useless which will make for a more interesting fight.

MiyamotoMusashi

@flandrian15:

BB and Luffy's haki will be at the same level so it'll be rendered useless which will make for a more interesting fight.

How is Luffy going to counter darkness, quakes and a possible third ability?

wolfwood

Personally i think BB will learn to use his two existing powers in a defensive way, like to intercept or deflect blows. Which coupled with his natural toughness should make him a tough nut to crack.

auem

@MiyamotoMusashi:

How is Luffy going to counter darkness, quakes and a possible third ability?

Power of faith on one's ability.:ninja:

uniaka ikuzakas

I think it's a given that luffy will be better at haki then BB, since many dfs seem to he his thing and he can cancel luffy's df. Like when would BB have time to train all his 2 or 3 fruits and trăins all advanced hakis too

wolfwood

@uniaka:

I think it's a given that luffy will be better at haki then BB, since many dfs seem to he his thing and he can cancel luffy's df. Like when would BB have time to train all his 2 or 3 fruits and trăins all advanced hakis too

He had like 30-40 years before he even touched a devil fruit to work on his haki tho

MiyamotoMusashi

@auem:

Power of faith on one's ability.:ninja:

Isn´t that Haki?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@wolfwood:

He had like 30-40 years before he even touched a devil fruit to work on his haki tho

That reasoning is faulty though considering the age of the opponents Luffy faced and the fact that BB literally needed the fruit to be relevant.

wolfwood

@MiyamotoMusashi:

That reasoning is faulty though considering the age of the opponents Luffy faced and the fact that BB literally needed the fruit to be relevant.

My line of reasoning is essentially that even pre-fruit he was seemingly good enough to scar Shanks and be offered a WB commander title, which i would assume translates to being able to use haki quite effectively, since he uses no known weapons or skills outside of that little wolverine claw.

MiyamotoMusashi

@wolfwood:

My line of reasoning is essentially that even pre-fruit he was seemingly good enough to scar Shanks and be offered a WB commander title, which i would assume translates to being able to use haki quite effectively, since he uses no known weapons or skills outside of that little wolverine claw.

I get that but 1) It´s pretty apparent that this was a very young Shanks. He had his scar in the Windmill Village, but also had not met Whitebeard since Roger´s demise, and BB was hiding in WB´s ship -> it happened when they were both apprentices. Whatever that means can be discussed.

and 2) the commanders vary immensely in strength, while the number supposedly is neither strength related nor authority related, despite Marco being first in both, but Ace was not yet at Vista or Jozu strength.

So nothing of these negate him having great Haki, but at least for me do not particularly suggest he has. And then we can talk about his the low amount of his showings, in which he looked pretty bad in regards to it.

RigaCrypto

Also, WB could have different roles for each group/commander. One would need reckon & scout group, a fighting group and maybe a support group if the crew is big enough. Like how BM top crewmembers have different skills that aren't only for fightning purposes.

kirei_lanford

Maybe this has been asked repeatedly, but what kind of one on one would SH and BB pirates look like ?
Besides luffy vs BB, of course.
This would be the final fight so everything is possible.

Ukimix

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Isn´t that Haki?

Maybe a development of CoC, as we already are witnessing developments of CoO and CoA…

@Robby:

It's less about the expectation of that fight, and more the sheer scale it puts Luffy himself at for the rest of the series. If he can beat the strongest guy by himself, even narrowly, that admirals and shanks and big mom couldn't beat, then… Luffy has broken the power scaling of the series and badly.

So he can't win in a strict 1 on 1, there has to be SOME kind of catch. Someone else providing a weakpoint or allowing Luffy his moment to hit the final blow unguarded, or a giant ball of molten gold stuck on his arm... but its not something Luffy can do completely solo, even if he does 95% of the lasting damage personally, as happened with Doflamingo.

The sentence "Kaid is the strongest creature" is just a tag that only means he's superstrong… but not unbeatable and even it doesn't make impossible to see there are fighters even stronger than him (BM? BB? Im?...). Anyway just a rethoric title to awe us readers. To take it literally is just like to prepare the ground for more surprises...

Beyond that, maybe the plot line about the katanas results in a combo of Luffy and Zoro breaking the defense of Kaido. Anyway, I'd prefer a 1 vs 1 amazing win of Luffy. We'll see

@Roronoa:

Sulong Inu and Neko vs Jack would be rad though.

I'd say only one Sulong is enough if we consider that would be like to see a Kaido's comander vs a Roger's comander fight.

wolfwood

@MiyamotoMusashi:

I get that but 1) It´s pretty apparent that this was a very young Shanks. He had his scar in the Windmill Village, but also had not met Whitebeard since Roger´s demise, and BB was hiding in WB´s ship -> it happened when they were both apprentices. Whatever that means can be discussed.

and 2) the commanders vary immensely in strength, while the number supposedly is neither strength related nor authority related, despite Marco being first in both, but Ace was not yet at Vista or Jozu strength.

So nothing of these negate him having great Haki, but at least for me do not particularly suggest he has. And then we can talk about his the low amount of his showings, in which he looked pretty bad in regards to it.

It is one of those old old arguments. What speaks against it being something that happend to chibi-Shanks before he became someone powerful is that he uses this scar to underscore how Blackbeard is not to be underestimated. It would only be reasonable to assume that either chibi-Shanks was powerful enough to warrant a comparison to Ace at that point, or it happend at a later stage. Which isn't impossible, since we've seen the second division have all sorts of adventures on their own. Like learning to knit hats and what not.

@RigaCrypto:

Also, WB could have different roles for each group/commander. One would need reckon & scout group, a fighting group and maybe a support group if the crew is big enough. Like how BM top crewmembers have different skills that aren't only for fightning purposes.

Could be. But he was offered the second division which from what we've seen so far does shit all but fight and make enormous hats.

MiyamotoMusashi

@Ukimix:

Maybe a development of CoC, as we already are witnessing developments of CoO and CoA…

The sentence "Kaid is the strongest creature" is just a tag that only means he's superstrong... but not unbeatable and even it doesn't make impossible to see there are fighters even stronger than him (BM? BB? Im?...). Anyway just a rethoric title to awe us readers. To take it literally is just like to prepare the ground for more surprises...

Beyond that, maybe the plot line about the katanas results in a combo of Luffy and Zoro breaking the defense of Kaido. Anyway, I'd prefer a 1 vs 1 amazing win of Luffy. We'll see

I'd say only one Sulong is enough if we consider that would be like to see a Kaido's comander vs a Roger's comander fight.

No i mean the mental strength to not doubt yourself and your abilities was mentioned as generally being the working behind haki.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@wolfwood:

It is one of those old old arguments. What speaks against it being something that happend to chibi-Shanks before he became someone powerful is that he uses this scar to underscore how Blackbeard is not to be underestimated. It would only be reasonable to assume that either chibi-Shanks was powerful enough to warrant a comparison to Ace at that point, or it happend at a later stage. Which isn't impossible, since we've seen the second division have all sorts of adventures on their own. Like learning to knit hats and what not.

Could be. But he was offered the second division which from what we've seen so far does shit all but fight and make enormous hats.

Or could refer to the potential of BB, the fact that someone talented as Shanks had an equal his own age, but whereas one threw himself out there to face challenges over and over, which is said to increasr your haki, the other hid himself and wait for the one in a million chance.

desa

@Shiebs:

If Luffy owns Kaido all on his own how will they make Black Beard seem like an actual fight by the end of the series? He's obviously the final villain so what do they do to make him a bigger threat? I'm not putting down your theory I'm seriously asking, maybe give him another DF or an ancient weapon to boot

He has a couple of fruits that are considered the best in their category in-universe. He'll be fine.

kevo_koma

So guys Luffy, Ace, Garp are usually falling asleep all the time.
On the other hand Blackbeard apparently has never fallen asleep.

I also just realized that Law often seems like he has bags under his eyes, like he doesn't get enough sleep.

Could it be that just like the Minks, there's a separation among the D. clan based on sleep patterns??

wolfwood

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Or could refer to the potential of BB, the fact that someone talented as Shanks had an equal his own age, but whereas one threw himself out there to face challenges over and over, which is said to increasr your haki, the other hid himself and wait for the one in a million chance.

Oh on a certain level it is about potential and how cunning and patient he is. But how do you account for the part where Shanks spefices that it wasn't a blow from Mihawk, as one might've expected, and that it wasn't a cheap shot when he was caught unaware. The inclusion of such details seem like a grip to lead the reader to certain conclusions

desa

Ace and Garp have narcolepsy Luffy doesn't. The only time he fell asleep suddenly was when his grandpa interrupted his rest from the Lucci fight.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@wolfwood:

My line of reasoning is essentially that even pre-fruit he was seemingly good enough to scar Shanks and be offered a WB commander title, which i would assume translates to being able to use haki quite effectively, since he uses no known weapons or skills outside of that little wolverine claw.

He can be fine at haki without being as good as Luffy. Also I always though the fruit were there to illustrate him taking shortcuts to strength which would explains him not being as good at maki since he already have something like the gura which destructive power is much easier to bring out.

kevo_koma

@desa:

Ace and Garp have narcolepsy Luffy doesn't. The only time he fell asleep suddenly was when his grandpa interrupted his rest from the Lucci fight.

.

True, But Luffy does tend to sleep alot. Especially to recover inhumanly first from injuries.

I don't know it just seems like its a D. thing.

desa

@kevo_koma:

True, But Luffy does tend to sleep alot. Especially to recover inhumanly first from injuries.

I don't know it just seems like its a D. thing.

To me it seems more like a One Piece thing. Didn't Zoro do the same when he took Luffy's pain?

flandrian15

@MiyamotoMusashi:

How is Luffy going to counter darkness, quakes and a possible third ability?

By doing what he always does, being creative with his own abilities. Anyway, as we have seen time and time again Blackbeard is not undefeatable. If Whitebeard wasn't in such a bad state at Marineford he would've won and Blackbeard still needed his whole crew to attack Whitebeard before he was dead and you can argue Whitebeard was the strongest man but at Marinoford he was definitely not in his prime anymore and while fighting BB, He already had half his face blown off and was magmafisted in the chest by Akainu. MAgellan also basically killed BB if it wasn't for Shiliew having an antidote so there's definitely ways to defeat him. True, he is hax but I think Luffy will have something to even the match. Rubber and quakes? Rubber absorbs quakes. I don't think Luffy will be affected by these quakes at all or at least much less then any other human would.