Great chapter, some questions were answered, some new questions came to be.
Just a small theory, what if Toki did indeed travel to the future, but was later killed instead of Hiyori. Since they are a look a like of each other. This would also explain, somehow Kyoshiros question, are you ready (finally to die), assuming he is Denjiro.
Anyone got any ideas, what will happen in the next chapters, especially what's gonna happen with Oden and Orochi? There are 5 years left till Oden dies, so will he simply rule over Wano for 5 years and not open its borders. If this is the case, did Oden simply lacked the support of the other daimyos?
Anyways, how long do you guys think the flashback will be? My guess is that we get at least 2 more chapters, or this is the end of the flashback and it will continue eventually if Orochi and or Kaido get their flashback.
Chapter 968: Oden's Return
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It was not just Crocodile, Iceburg and Tom also said that it was a warship and I think it is very unlikely that carpenters so talented and who looked at the plants several times cannot realize that it is a ship.
Iceburg based his stuff on Tom as well. Who cannot read poneglyphs either.
So thing is Pluton might not be a ship, since said ship might have been created to counter an ancient weapon as stated by Tom.
And Pluton is a total different thing that we don't know about until Robin(the one reliable source) tell us about. -
Pluton is a ship, stop guys.
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Chapter 352
"The blueprints for the world's most terrible battleship, the Ancient weapon, Pluton" - Lucci
Chapter 399
"If the Ancient weapon ever got into the hands of an idiot like you. Someone who would go berserk with power. Another weapon will be needed to stop you. It's what the weapon's architect planned" - Cutty
Franky has the blueprints in his head to counter that warship. Pretty simple. I don't doubt Lucci's words because it has to stem from the Gorosei in some way
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And yeah, theres that too, that Pluton isn't as unique as Poseidon, and there can be two Plutons at once.
Which I find a bit bothersome, uniqueness should be guaranteed when it comes to Ancient Weapons.
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Pluton can't be remade. It is 1 of 1. Knowing the blueprints can help another shipwright build something to counter it. Something that can counter it isn't the same as the actual weapon.
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And yeah, theres that too, that Pluton isn't as unique as Poseidon, and there can be two Plutons at once.
Which I find a bit bothersome, uniqueness should be guaranteed when it comes to Ancient Weapons.
The blueprints for Pluton are destroyed and I really doubt Franky memorized them. Why am I so sure about that? Because if it's now revealed that Franky could have built it anyway all this time then one of the most iconic moments of the series is completely ruined and Franky's character practically assassinated.
Now the power to counter the weapon is gone! If Nico Robin falls into your hands (the Government), we're doomed! And if the Straw Hats win, you will have nothing left! I'm gonna bet on them winning!
Pluton is gone (except for the original, maybe), as are any means to counter it through whatever the blueprint suggested. No Pluton, no Pluton-light, no Counter-Pluton.
It's Poseidon / Uranus or bust.
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Pluton can't be remade. It is 1 of 1. Knowing the blueprints can help another shipwright build something to counter it. Something that can counter it isn't the same as the actual weapon.
The only thing that can counter Pluton is another Pluton…
Though as of now yeah it is 1 of 1...somewhere out there....
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The only thing that can counter Pluton is another Pluton…
Though as of now yeah it is 1 of 1...somewhere out there....
Pluton is a thing that is out there. Something that can counter Shirahoshi because it understands how her ability works and can counter her isn't Poseidon
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Somehow I doubt that Franky hasn't read and/or memorized the plans for Pluton. With the right stuff, near the end of OP he might just build it.
Aside from the crazy talk, I enjoyed this chapter alot. Roger's travels are known, Oden's too, all that is left are those few years before his death. I'm supporting the theory that not Orochi, but the witch is going to get killed, but, on the last page, that is the real Orochi for sure in my opinion. He wanted to say Lord Oden, but eventually referred to him as just Oden, which means he at least feels equal to him(if not above).
How can 4-5 years go by with Kaido and Oden working in the shadows… that I cannot imagine yet. I let myself be surprised. -
People mistaking this manga with Arpeggio of Blue Steel.
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I will certainly agree that Oda shifted his focus towards the antagonists more beyond simply being symbolical contrasts to Luffy in comparison to pre-TS with Doflamingo and Big Mom getting a background, but Kaidou has completely played second fiddle to Orochi, with his main motivation being "i am bored", seems empty.
Kaidous main motivation is not he is bored. He is also interested in the one piece and knows oden knows something about it. It was stated by kinemon back in zou, I don't know why so many people forgot about it or overlooked it.
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I am hoping BB will get Pluton to up the ante. Too many things going to Luffy's favor.
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it–always.”
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Maybe Franky already build pluton and pluton îs Sunny. Or Sunny îs the pluton counter, even more If it's gonna turn into megazord.
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I think if the Sunny had Ancient Weapon-power we would have seen it by now.
Count me in on Blackbeard getting Pluton. It will be a great show when he starts blasting holes in Shirahoshi's Seakings and whatever Uranus/Imu is capable of (maybe controlling gigantic land creatures, like Zunisha?)
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Kaidous main motivation is not he is bored. He is also interested in the one piece and knows oden knows something about it. It was stated by kinemon back in zou, I don't know why so many people forgot about it or overlooked it.
20 years ago my man
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I think if the Sunny had Ancient Weapon-power we would have seen it by now.
Count me in on Blackbeard getting Pluton. It will be a great show when he starts blasting holes in Shirahoshi's Seakings and whatever Uranus/Imu is capable of (maybe controlling gigantic land creatures, like Zunisha?)
Too early too use it, when we get closer to raftel and we find out more about the ancient weapons. Coup do burst does make it seem like it's not some normal ship, like what other ship even has that, even yonkou ships don't have something similar. Imagine using it as weapon.
But if momonosuke can control zunisha, then he is uranus. But with how one ancient weapon is sea creatures, one is ship, makes sense for uranus to be something based on sky. Either bird or zunsiha does reach even the clouds…. and maybe are more like zunisha. Momonosuke is uranus, isn't he, that is what the poneglyphs in wano will reveal.
Even more if bb will get pluton, it makes sense for SHs to get the pluton counter. -
All the things we still have to see in this flashback aside, what I also really want to see is Toki dropping at least something about her original time. Oden did just come back from a voyage where he discovered something about the world and its past. Don't expect any grand revelations, but would feel cheated if there was no mention of it whatsoever.
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I know many people’ve enjoyed it, but having half of this flashback be Rogers Abridged Foreshadowing Adventure has really hurt it in terms of cohesion and emotional investment. Usually flashbacks are where Odas storytelling is at its most laser-focused, but here its been just as condensed, and as dense with characters and plotlines as the main story – perhaps even more so. The plot has completely squashed the story.
I mean if nothing else, prior flashbacks have been hell-bent on making you care about certain characters or relationships: we feel Robins pain, we root for Hiruluk and Chopper, or Norland and Calgara. But Odens flashback is so cluttered that it doesn’t make time to make us care about anything.
Are we invested in Odens relationship with the scabbards? Eh, not really, their relationships seem very one sided in terms of affection. Kinemon gets a bit of focus in the beginning only to get pushed into the background, Dog and Cat tag along on Odens journeys and don’t contribute much of anything.
Are we invested in Odens relationship with Wano? I mean, the only thing I feel the flashback has thoroughly established that Oden really cared about was travelling. I can’t say that it feels like he gives much of a shit about Wano? The whole “opening its borders!” plotline remains feeling tremendously undercooked, and now seems more like a prophesized obligation rather than something born of ideology/necessity.
In the end, Oden himself feels like a cog in the plot machine, like a bundle of strings connecting Wano to Series Endgame plotlines, and the flashback (and arc) suffers for it. In this chapter, after five chapters of adventuring with Fan Favourite Cameos, theres 7 pages between Odens return and him storming the palace in a bloodrage, which is mostly prompted by an extended expository conversation rather than any firsthand experience of Oden with the new status quo. I guess that’s the purpose of Toki and her injury: to most expediently put the guy who doesn’t really care at all about Wano where he needs to be.
Speaking of, Toki may be the most disappointing victim of all in this burdened flashback. She’s a time-traveller separated from her homeland, the person who finally won the heart of noted lecher Oden, theres so much you could do with that character!…but in the end, she’s pretty much another Scarlet. No identity of her own, just there to support her man, provide some offspring, and motivate him through being endangered. The latter seems to be in vogue in OP recently; Tokis’ had it pretty bad in this flashback alone, but between her, Hiyori, Tsuru, Toki and Tama, theres enough female endangerment for everyone in Wano.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Oda gave out pretty much every beat of Odens story in advance in order to make more room for the Whitebeard/Roger/foreshadowing stuff in the flashback.
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@Daz:
I know many people’ve enjoyed it, but having half of this flashback be Rogers Abridged Foreshadowing Adventure has really hurt it in terms of cohesion and emotional investment.
I mean I enjoyed the parts of seeing Oden and Whitebeard bonding or that moment where the retainers become proper but I definitely agree with the lack of focus. I'm more interested in the Whitebeard relationship than his time in Wano and his relation to the retainers feels more one-sided than before we knew the whole story.
Many parts feeling like cliff notes and Oda trying to hard to make world building where we should have character work. That was my biggest worry about the flashback and it is ultimately true.
Tokis’ had it pretty bad in this flashback alone, but between her, Hiyori, Tsuru, Toki and Tama, theres enough female endangerment for everyone in Wano.
I think Hiyori is still fine. She conned some men, bitchslaped Orochi and saved a kid. I don't think getting saved once by Zoro change all that. She actually seems active.
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Maybe just wait until the flashback is actually over.
In addition, claiming Oda did not manage for the audience to care about a specific relationship entails that it was the aim so fat, which i do not see.
Most flashbacks live and work due to their tradegy, which we have not come to yet, so until then, i rather wait with my verdict.
So far Oden was just supposed to be the likeable and legendary guy many characters have claimed and who inspired tremendous loyalty.
That on the other hand can be judged, and i am not particularly fond of him. -
Yeah the scabbards sure got the rough end on that relationship. Kinemons i didn't realize your were due any respect scene was a good little what the hell hero moment. But hey i mean when people die you sort of gloss over what a pain in the ass they were and focus on the good.
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I wonder: did Kinemon ever had the chance to know about what Oden found out at Laugh Tale (and also the name of the island itself)? It could have happened during these 5 years that have to pass now. And if he does know,do you think he also told this to the Strawhats when he told them all the story? So basically,the flashback we are reading is 100% the same story the Strawhats heard? This would mean they know about the Laugh Tale name (which i dont know if its a mistery or not).
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@Daz:
The whole “opening its borders!” plotline remains feeling tremendously undercooked, and now seems more like a prophesized obligation rather than something born of ideology/necessity.
I think that's the point of it. Initially he disliked Wano being an isolated country solely because of his own curiosity - he wanted to know the world, wanted to know what was beyond his country borders. Being part of the two biggest pirate crews ever, he satiated his personal desire to know the world, but stumbled with the "truth of the world" and that gave him a much bigger and deeper reason to open Wano to the outside world.
The Oden who set sail with Newgate answered with disgust to the idea of going back to Wano. He never intended to go back to his home, he didn't intended to free the people from isolation, he just wanted to free himself. Now he is moved by an outside purpose than his own reasons and he goes back to his homeland to serve a bigger purpose than his own dreams and ambitions.
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I wonder: did Kinemon ever had the chance to know about what Oden found out at Laugh Tale (and also the name of the island itself)? It could have happened during these 5 years that have to pass now. And if he does know,do you think he also told this to the Strawhats when he told them all the story? So basically,the flashback we are reading is 100% the same story the Strawhats heard? This would mean they know about the Laugh Tale name (which i dont know if its a mistery or not).
No, because I remember him saying that Oden didn't 'burden' them with the info.
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Yeah the scabbards sure got the rough end on that relationship. Kinemons i didn't realize your were due any respect scene was a good little what the hell hero moment. But hey i mean when people die you sort of gloss over what a pain in the ass they were and focus on the good.
Its a joke, all scabbards are completely loyal to him because of what he did for them and inspired them.
Luffy gets called all kind of shit by the crew, and can be a pain in thr ass sometimes, every strawhat was ready to die for him.
And its obvious Oden is supposed to be a similar character to Luffy. -
Its a joke, all scabbards are completely loyal to him because of what he did for them and inspired them.
Luffy gets called all kind of shit by the crew, and can be a pain in thr ass sometimes, every strawhat was ready to die for him.
And its obvious Oden is supposed to be a similar character to Luffy.Sure it is in jest, but it is a legitimate jab all the same. But personally i gotta say if Oda's intent was to show them as true companions deserving of each others loyalty like the strawhats they surely failed to that across to me. They come across more like honor bound servants like Igram or whatever Vivi's guy was called.
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I wonder: did Kinemon ever had the chance to know about what Oden found out at Laugh Tale (and also the name of the island itself)? It could have happened during these 5 years that have to pass now. And if he does know,do you think he also told this to the Strawhats when he told them all the story? So basically,the flashback we are reading is 100% the same story the Strawhats heard? This would mean they know about the Laugh Tale name (which i dont know if its a mistery or not).
I don't think that Kinemon knew. What bothers me more is where Odens diary is at the moment and through whose eyes we are reading it.
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The final island being called Laugh Tale is common knowledge in the One Piece world. It was always called like that. The Raftel/Laugh Tale controversy only exists in the translated versions because we didn't knew how to romanize the term. This is not a Gold/Gol D. sort of thing where a fake name was used before and later the real one was revealed, this is just like Reverie/Levely or Marijoa/Mary Geoise where we just didn't knew how that japanese word was supposed to be romanized and now we know.
In the original japanese version the name was never Raftel, it was the same as it is now: ラフテル. It's only that, now, we (the readers) know that's supposed to mean Laugh Tale and not a made-up word (so in that sense it is actually the opposite of Levely), but that the in-story characters always knew. -
Sure it is in jest, but it is a legitimate jab all the same. But personally i gotta say if Oda's intent was to show them as true companions deserving of each others loyalty like the strawhats they surely failed to that across to me. They come across more like honor bound servants like Igram or whatever Vivi's guy was called.
No relationship will reach the heights of the Strawhats for the most part, Oda spent so much time on that, especially in the first half, that it´s sheer impossible to reach those dephts.
Oden literally saved his life, hid his shameful life for him to save face, and then took him under his wing, a completely useless thug.
Sure, debt plays into that, but the sheer inspiration for him to follow a better life than the one he lived comes from Oden´s actions, similar to Luffy inspiring the Strawhats to reclaim their dreams. And you can see that in the early flashback. https://v93.mangabeast.com/manga/One-Piece/0961-015.png
So rationally i can accept Kinemon being such a loyal follower, while the relationship has not stimulated any kind of investment or feelings like Daz said, only i do not think we were supposed to until now, majority of the flashback was showing how cool and alpha Oden is supposed to be, which for me it totally failed. -
Even though Oden is not as tragic as others characters so far, I think it is a bit unfair to say this flashback is bad. After all through him we had access to great moments with Whitebeards and Roger's crews and big revelations on One Piece worlds as well as some big expectations towards the end of the serie.
To me, I enjoyed this flashback so far much more than Law's one for example which was a big soap opera drama from start to end.@.access:
The final island being called Laugh Tale is common knowledge in the One Piece world. It was always called like that. The Raftel/Laugh Tale controversy only exists in the translated versions because we didn't knew how to romanize the term. This is not a Gold/Gol D. sort of thing where a fake name was used before and later the real one was revealed, this is just like Reverie/Levely or Marijoa/Mary Geoise where we just didn't knew how that japanese word was supposed to be romanized and now we know.
In the original japanese version the name was never Raftel, it was the same as it is now: ラフテル. It's only that, now, we (the readers) know that's supposed to mean Laugh Tale and not a made-up word (so in that sense it is actually the opposite of Levely), but that the in-story characters always knew.It seems so unfortunately. The irony being that beside Oda and his editors, no Japanese knew the real signification either, even though for them the ortograph does not change. Lucky them for having 4 different "alphabets"
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@.access:
The final island being called Laugh Tale is common knowledge in the One Piece world. It was always called like that. The Raftel/Laugh Tale controversy only exists in the translated versions because we didn't knew how to romanize the term. This is not a Gold/Gol D. sort of thing where a fake name was used before and later the real one was revealed, this is just like Reverie/Levely or Marijoa/Mary Geoise where we just didn't knew how that japanese word was supposed to be romanized and now we know.
In the original japanese version the name was never Raftel, it was the same as it is now: ラフテル. It's only that, now, we (the readers) know that's supposed to mean Laugh Tale and not a made-up word (so in that sense it is actually the opposite of Levely), but that the in-story characters always knew.Oda and the editors made a big deal out of knowing the right romanization though, so i do not think it was common knowledge.
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I'm also kind of disappointed that we haven't gotten more about Toki, especially given that she was probably born during the Void Century, or perhaps at least near the end with it. (The timeline about exactly when the Void Century started and ended is vague enough that I'm not totally sure how everything works out time-wise.) She definitely feels like somebody who should have gotten to reach Laugh Tale and learn the truth about the world and all the secrets there, especially since she would have been able to provide further context and another perspective about it that no one else has. But nope, let's just have her get sick, be dropped off in Wano, and spend the time before Oden comes back singing his praises as an ideal housewife. Admittedly, the flashback isn't over yet, so maybe there's still a chance for Oden to fill Toki in on what he found out and she can give him more info; if that's what does happen, great. But I'm not counting on it.
–---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @Captain:These dark times make my miss Bellisario Faith's input. Her comparisons were always presented fairly and zeroed right in on the differences between the available translations in an easy to follow way. Her thread, for reference, since it's fallen a few pages back on the board.
Sorry i missed this at first, but this is a great point, Captain M.
THIS is the way to go about addressing issues chapter-to chapter. Not saying "well here is how I would do it" with a large following that follows a personality specifically.
I always loved seeing BF's posts in the chapter threads, even if I was reading JB and VIZ in any particular week.
Bellisario Faith really did it quite fantastically. I recall talking with her quite a few times back in the day and her insight was always so thorough. She did an excellent job at it
Aw, thanks, guys.
I feel bad, I really started to let those slip to the wayside as life got busier, especially once MangaPLUS came out and everybody had access to the VIZ version (as my original reason for starting the comparisons was due to so many people not having access to that translation). I was hoping to one day get caught up with those when I had time to devote myself to the project, but now that MS is gone and JB has removed all their OP chapters, that might be a little hard, lulz. Well, I'm sure I could at least find the MS versions on other sites, and maybe the JB ones too, so perhaps someday it'll happen. But, at any rate, for the times I actually did get them done, glad you enjoyed~ :happy:
Hidden:
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Oda and the editors made a big deal out of knowing the right romanization though, so i do not think it was common knowledge.
In-universe characters =/= real life people
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@.access:
In-universe characters =/= real life people
You literally claimed it´s only a translation issue, it isn´t, hence why key people were told what it actually means.
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You literally claimed it´s only a translation issue, it isn´t, hence why key people were told what it actually means.
You should read the post more carefully. I mention two aspects (the name controversy and the "Laugh Tale" reveal) and how they operate in three different takes (the translated version, the original version, the in-story reality).
- Quoting myself, "The Raftel/Laugh Tale controversy only exists in the translated versions".
- In the japanese version there is no controversy. The name was always ラフテル, but only now it was revealed that was supposed to mean "Laugh Tale". "Raftel" never existed for them, it was ラフテル before and is ラフテル still. There was no change in the name as some people seem to believe (some people even theorizing that, similar to Roger's name, the WG would have tried to hide the true meaning of the name changing it to "Raftel").
- For the One Piece-verse, everyone saying ラフテル always knew it meant "Laugh Tale" - the reveal was only for the readers, not in-universe.
What I said is a translation issue is the controversy between a supposedly old and a new name. The reveal of what the name actually was is a different thing.
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@.access:
You should read the post more carefully. I mention two aspects (the name controversy and the "Laugh Tale" reveal) and how they operate in three different takes (the translated version, the original version, the in-story reality).
- Quoting myself, "The Raftel/Laugh Tale controversy only exists in the translated versions".
- In the japanese version there is no controversy. The name was always ラフテル, but only now it was revealed that was supposed to mean "Laugh Tale". "Raftel" never existed for them, it was ラフテル before and is ラフテル still. There was no change in the name as some people seem to believe (some people even theorizing that, similar to Roger's name, the WG would have tried to hide the true meaning of the name changing it to "Raftel").
- For the One Piece-verse, everyone saying ラフテル always knew it meant "Laugh Tale" - the reveal was only for the readers, not in-universe.
What I said is a translation issue is the controversy between a supposedly old and a new name. The reveal of what the name actually was is a different thing.
To be fair even if it was always ラフテル, due to Japanese pronunciation and the ambiguity going from a Japanese (possibly English) word to actual English it isn't like the first way I'd translate it would be "Laugh Tale"
In fact ラフ is how they'd say "rough" because what we would call the Japanese Letter A sound only makes one sound which isn't the same sound that appears in "laugh"
I would also think that Tale would properly be written as テール or テイル to more realistically mimic the sound in English. In fact both Fairy Tale and the Tales of video games are both テイル.
All this to say I think they wanted it to be ambiguous even in Japanese but maybe I should investigate into what actual Japanese people thought.
Avatar Artist: Aapo Niemi
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To be fair even if it was always ラフテル, due to Japanese pronunciation and the ambiguity going from a Japanese (possibly English) word to actual English it isn't like the first way I'd translate it would be "Laugh Tale"
Knowing how much Oda hates people finding out his big plans in advance, I think he sacrificed accuracy here to be sure no one would guess what ラフテル should stand for. Only a person with zero idea of how "laugh" and "tale" are pronounced could have guessed it.
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–---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aw, thanks, guys.
I feel bad, I really started to let those slip to the wayside as life got busier, especially once MangaPLUS came out and everybody had access to the VIZ version (as my original reason for starting the comparisons was due to so many people not having access to that translation). I was hoping to one day get caught up with those when I had time to devote myself to the project, but now that MS is gone and JB has removed all their OP chapters, that might be a little hard, lulz. Well, I'm sure I could at least find the MS versions on other sites, and maybe the JB ones too, so perhaps someday it'll happen. But, at any rate, for the times I actually did get them done, glad you enjoyed~ :happy:No need to feel bad or pressure yourself to start up again, just as long as you know it was appreciated while it lasted!
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A big problem is, at least for me, none of these big main plot revelations feel "earned", neither from the heroes' (who did'nt read oden's diary) nor the readers' perspective. And at the same time don't even matter that much if you think about it: We already knew about Poseidon, Joy Boy and Road/Real/Rio Poneglyphs, and we also knew that Roger knew, and so we knew about voice of all things, ecc. I mean, even the supposed focus of the FB, which would be Oden, was already spoiled almost in detail over the entire Wano Arc. There are litterally no stakes here.
I could bet on a last minute revelation, such as Oden leaving some crucial hint about laugh tale in his last moments, which will become relevant in the last chapters of the main present arc or give the segue for the next one, but all these chapters seem more and more wasted panel time and gratuitous fanservice as it goes on…That said, Roger was pretty cool, the "OMG HEZ JUST LIKE LUFFY" was there but just enough below the absolute cringe level, and his quirks were enjoyable. Too bad the pirate king's crew was mostly random sketchy dudes, except the ones we already knew about.
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The flashback starts after the Scabbards were shown to be in a horrible position, but they were still pushing because of their leader Oden. We go through their beginnings and some of their highs and lows. The narrative either ends up propping up Orochi because he has the upper hand in the current situation or it is giving us context for a triumph that is about to occur for the Scabbards. Maybe because the WB and Roger stuff is distracting, some forget the narrative, but what they are up against and how this all came to be is needed context. Maybe someone is reading his logs and this is what Kaido is after.
As far as whether the audience earned the revelations or not, I partially agree. This is a long series and this feels like Oda paying those who've been patient (fan service as you noted). I don't feel like I needed this or that it's at 80%, but many are more engaged and might feel at ease now.
There are many things that we didn't know
We didn't know that VOAT was used by Roger to locate Poneglyphs beforehand. We still don't know how VOAT exactly works. Is it everything that we've seen performed by Shirahoshi to Momo, Roger and Oden? We haven't seen Oden say that he can hear voices from the PG, he is just shown to understand the text because it comes from his family. I haven't seen the capability to hear the different creatures confirmed as VOAT yet. VOAT being both about hearing from PGs and creatures is the matter and until it is confirmed like the ability that only Roger has shown, it's still assumption.
We didn't know that Franky met Oden. This might be addressed later on. Franky has shown to have a soft side for characters like Oden. Maybe this ties into a narrative that he has going forward
We didn't know how Orochi initially started on his mission to be Shogun. We now have this family conflict and another individual who has been outside of Wano
2nd Division commander was kind of useless to know, but still nice info
Overall, there is a lot of fan service, but if you aren't easily distracted, there's a narrative being addressed and built up. We have a 5 year gap after whatever happens here where Oden doesn't die. Does Oden cut Kaido here and kaido leaves? Does Oden lose here and is captured? What was Neko and Inu arguing over? What is Denjirou really doing in the flashback and current time? What is the prophecy and why did it change from opening borders to opening borders before Joy Boy returns?
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The most huge thing for me is the roger's laughing scene and laugh tale, but everything else has been great so far. information are different with witnessing it straight from panel to panel, watching the real moment one by one, even though it was not spoiled as much as we want it to be. But fine for me.
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No relationship will reach the heights of the Strawhats for the most part, Oda spent so much time on that, especially in the first half, that it´s sheer impossible to reach those dephts.
Oden literally saved his life, hid his shameful life for him to save face, and then took him under his wing, a completely useless thug.
Sure, debt plays into that, but the sheer inspiration for him to follow a better life than the one he lived comes from Oden´s actions, similar to Luffy inspiring the Strawhats to reclaim their dreams. And you can see that in the early flashback. https://v93.mangabeast.com/manga/One-Piece/0961-015.png
So rationally i can accept Kinemon being such a loyal follower, while the relationship has not stimulated any kind of investment or feelings like Daz said, only i do not think we were supposed to until now, majority of the flashback was showing how cool and alpha Oden is supposed to be, which for me it totally failed.Well i mean sure they'll never be the strawhats, but even minor characters like the franky family had more of a we all love and look out for each other vibe with Fuhranky than Oden and his servants have been shown to have. The fact that Oden rarely, if ever, seem to think about the well being of his servants and they just fall at his feet all the same just makes the relationship seem like servant and master than anything resembling brotherhood
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@.access:
Knowing how much Oda hates people finding out his big plans in advance, I think he sacrificed accuracy here to be sure no one would guess what ラフテル should stand for. Only a person with zero idea of how "laugh" and "tale" are pronounced could have guessed it.
Although "Raftel" being a stand-in for "Laughter" has been around since like 2002, which is funny
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@Daz:
No identity of her own, just there to support her man, provide some offspring, and motivate him through being endangered.
I was going to ask why this is bad, but then I remembered it's a trend in the West to demean and attack stay-at-home mothers - they're nothing compared to career-driven women. If I said these exact words in my mother's face, she would slap me to hell and back and return me to where I came from. I feel like my own mother is being insulted with this statement.
"Yes, I'm only bones, but that's because I have an interest… in dieting."
-Gentleman Skeleton Brook
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Well i mean sure they'll never be the strawhats, but even minor characters like the franky family had more of a we all love and look out for each other vibe with Fuhranky than Oden and his servants have been shown to have. The fact that Oden rarely, if ever, seem to think about the well being of his servants and they just fall at his feet all the same just makes the relationship seem like servant and master than anything resembling brotherhood
The context is different, no idea why you expect obvious brotherhood of a street gang with a daimyo and his subordinates, not to forget relationship built up over a 100 chapter saga with a small part of a 5 chapter flashback.
It´s a different relationship, but it´s not something only tied together by duty like you claimed, these are people who are willingly ready to give up their life for Oden for different reasons because they saw his supposed greatness and have received a lot of help from him.Like i said before, emotionally it does nothing, but i doubt it´s supposed to.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I was going to ask why this is bad, but then I remembered it's a trend in the West to demean and attack stay-at-home mothers - they're nothing compared to career-driven women. If I said these exact words in my mother's face, she would slap me to hell and back and return me to where I came from. I feel like my own mother is being insulted with this statement.
Not really, you are applying a real world context to a purposely fantastical and over-the-top world in which Oda expresses that a sense of adventure and doing your own thing is a part of the ultimate good.
And you have to judge a fictional work within its context (something a majority of critics get wrong nowadays btw) and with that, Toki is obviously an assistant to clueless Oden, so that he may do and achieve what he is supposed to.
In addition, she hardly has any personality, Oda is not dedicating any time to further illustrate her character, a character mind you that many would agree might have very interesting tales to tell and things to show.
