Chapter 973: The Kozuki Clan

epoch

Crocus goal was to find Brook's crew and he failed. We don't know what Rayleigh's goal was outside of being a Roger Pirate and if he achieved it in all of the years that we don't know of. Oden's dream is being carried out now by his Scabbards. Buggy and Shanks are applicable, but what about the rest of the crew? You said "none" if i'm not mistaken. How do we know that Rayleigh nor the others accomplished what their goals were outside of reaching Raftel?

All I'm saying is after achieving a goal like reaching the end of the world like they did, nothing seemed to matter much anymore. Perhaps some mundane goals still remained but it paled against what they had already achieved.

Whatever they saw or met at Laugh Tale convinced them once and for all that they were not the ones fated to achieve the most important thing of all that would truly change the world. They were the precursors that set the stage for that all important goal to come.

Unlike Rock D. Xebec's crew, Oden's crew seemingly just retired. Only Shanks and Buggy remained active from what we know. And those two, acolytes at the time, didn't reach Laugh Tale.

DatYute

I didn't really expect Kyoshiro to be Denjiro, but I don't really mind the revelation. He was absolutely seething with rage and let it consume him for months on end. By the time he emerged from the shrine, he was a different person in every aspect. Pretty hardcore. His comment about not even Kinemon being able to recognize him, and that suiting his goals make it pretty clear that he's after the traitor in the group and he doesn't trust anyone. 20 years worth of rage, pain and suffering all bottled up for a singular goal. It's going to be glorious and terrifying when he releases all of that.

A lot of people were saying it was actually spoiled by an anime opening putting Kyoshiro with the rest of the scabbards, so I went to watch it and hoo boy. In that very same sequence all the scabbards are facing front or sideways except for Kanjuro who is showing us his back. My friend is now convinced they also spoiled that Kanjuro is the traitor in that same sequence. Funny stuff.

Roronoa Zacho

@Captain M

IMHO, Ashura and Denjiro maybe fought Kaidou, when the former ones tried to to fght the number which had picked Neko and Inu. At least this chapter implied it, but was cut off due to the stressy escpae-situation.
And yes, still no hint that Kaidou was trying to get info on the world's secret.

Capone Bege

I guess I'm just stupid because it took me a while to figure out those Denjiro "transformation" panels. For some reason I thought they were two different characters, and Denjiro stole Kyoshiro's face or something.

@Kaido:

I don't really mind Denjiro being Kyoshiro, I just might have found it cooler if he wasn't and Kyoshiro was more of a rogue with his own agenda.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he indeed does still have his own agenda.

Captain M

@Roronoa:

@Captain M

IMHO, Ashura and Denjiro maybe fought Kaidou, when the former ones tried to to fght the number which had picked Neko and Inu. At least this chapter implied it, but was cut off due to the stressy escpae-situation.
And yes, still no hint that Kaidou was trying to get info on the world's secret.

Yeah, like there's almost definitely room for it to have happened in the timeline, Oda hasn't dug himself into a plot hole or anything just yet, but given the emphasis put on that moment back in Act One, it would have been really nice to put it onscreen.

@Cockycent:

Nah, you're wrong. They definitely spoiled for those who weren't that skeptical. I don't mind it, but if someone else wasn't suspecting him as much, that sucks for them.

But that's the thing isn't it? They didn't outright state it so there was room enough to be skeptical or not. Seems similar to being "spoiled" by a fan theory that turned out to be right, though obviously a level above because this was official material (and who knows how many future plot points the anime team actually know about). The evidence may stack up, and you can choose to be skeptical about it or not, but you don't know for sure until the actual canon confirms it. But whatever. Spoilers are a really subjective thing and that's just my two cents. The how and why is more important than the reveal itself.

Cockycent

@Captain:

Yeah, like there's almost definitely room for it to have happened in the timeline, Oda hasn't dug himself into a plot hole or anything just yet, but given the emphasis put on that moment back in Act One, it would have been really nice to put it onscreen.

But that's the thing isn't it? They didn't outright state it so there was room enough to be skeptical or not. Seems similar to being "spoiled" by a fan theory that turned out to be right, though obviously a level above because this was official material (and who knows how many future plot points the anime team actually know about). The evidence may stack up, and you can choose to be skeptical about it or not, but you don't know for sure until the actual canon confirms it. But whatever. Spoilers are a really subjective thing and that's just my two cents. The how and why is more important than the reveal itself.

Uuuh yeah, a fan theory and the anime taking liberties? I wouldn't ever compare the 2, but I get what you mean. I don't take fan theories as seriously, but many other fans do. It's like when the anime has Carrot almost asking to join as filler and i'm like "wait, i've never seen them do this for other characters before, why her"? Or even the CoA oozing/being fluid on Zoro's swords in the anime before I see him do it in the manga. The fact that they can know and can hint messes with me. Like if i'm ever not suspecting of something in the future, is there a chance that i'm next in experiencing this?

Gia Sado

@Cockycent:

Uuuh yeah, a fan theory and the anime taking liberties? I wouldn't ever compare the 2, but I get what you mean. I don't take fan theories as seriously, but many other fans do. It's like when the anime has Carrot almost asking to join as filler and i'm like "wait, i've never seen them do this for other characters before, why her"? Or even the CoA oozing/being fluid on Zoro's swords in the anime before I see him do it in the manga. The fact that they can know and can hint messes with me. Like if i'm ever not suspecting of something in the future, is there a chance that i'm next in experiencing this?

Im telling you, the Anime staff is privy to info we dont have most definitely, just like Denjiro=Kyoshiro. I wouldnt doubt Oda or his editor told them Carrot is going to be a crew member after Wano, and pretty bluntly in fact. Carrot is the weirdest character in OP when it comes to circustances on why she may or may not join. Theres good arguments to be made for both sides.

Not turning this into the crewmate thread though, cant argue about this anymore, we'll see what happens at the end of the arc.

epoch

Although Denjiro's physical transformation is polarizing, what is truly unbelievable is the space where he now exists. He rose from the extremes of a tortured life to live a life of opulence under his torturer - serving at his will and protecting him. If his goal (as some have opined) is to find out who the traitor is while waiting for the return of the time travellers isn't absurd, I don't know what is. Not only has he protected Orochi from death, he has presumably killed for him - even going as far as injuring the child of his liege Lord to keep up appearances. He could have let Zoro kill Orochi and would have come out blameless yet he didn't. He could have even killed Orochi and fled, after all, he could live three different lives (as Denjiro, as Kyoshiro, and as the Witching Hour Boy) without incidence. This would have made Kaido's hold on Wano nebulous and would have removed a nasty ruler from Wano. He hasn't done any of these nor has he been able to stop the traitor from passing info to Orochi as far as we know. He does have a lot of explaining to do to the Scabbards and Wanoese people.

Cockycent

@epoch:

All I'm saying is after achieving a goal like reaching the end of the world like they did, nothing seemed to matter much anymore. Perhaps some mundane goals still remained but it paled against what they had already achieved.

Whatever they saw or met at Laugh Tale convinced them once and for all that they were not the ones fated to achieve the most important thing of all that would truly change the world. They were the precursors that set the stage for that all important goal to come.

Unlike Rock D. Xebec's crew, Oden's crew seemingly just retired. Only Shanks and Buggy remained active from what we know. And those two, acolytes at the time, didn't reach Laugh Tale.

Well, we have at least 4 of their members (Bakkin, Kaido, WB and Linlin) still active after their crew were done in. I don't believe they have to continue as a pirate to achieve their goal.

Perfect example is Shanks and Rayleigh. Imagine if their goal or dream is for someone to top what their crew. Haven't they planted the see or at least nurtured Luffy? Rayleigh would have done this without going the Rocks remnants route.

Brook wants to reunite with Laboon. It's a very meaningful goal. Would a Roger Pirate have to continue as this big pirate to achieve this goal after the split?

epoch

Presumably, Kinemon and his crew had to tell the Strawhats that Kaido sought them for information on Laugh Tale, to avoid telling them, at the time, their truly mind buggling story of time travel.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Cockycent:

Well, we have at least 4 of their members (Bakkin, Kaido, WB and Linlin) still active after their crew were done in. I don't believe they have to continue as a pirate to achieve their goal.

Perfect example is Shanks and Rayleigh. Imagine if their goal or dream is for someone to top what their crew. Haven't they planted the see or at least nurtured Luffy? Rayleigh would have done this without going the Rocks remnants route.

Brook wants to reunite with Laboon. It's a very meaningful goal. Would a Roger Pirate have to continue as this big pirate to achieve this goal after the split?

My thoughts are, we, all human, dream of changing the world for better in a significant way. Most pirates dream of becoming the pirate King and ruling the seas or the world. Some have other mundane dreams but join up as crew mates mostly for the specific reason of adventuring to the end of the world. That said, I only opined that after achieving the dream of Laugh Tale, from what info I have, the Roger Pirates mostly retired.

Johnny B. Decent

@Jabra:

Kaido is retarded. Chopper-style weird.

That conversation with Momo, the whole situation, is so absurd. As if Kaido doesn't know how to interact with humans. Read the scene loud a couple times and tell me it's not awkward. Kaido: What is your name? (he knows his name)
Momo: Urgh uffff…!
Kaido: Your father is a fool of a lord (as if he's just repeating things he heard somewhere, like a child).
With your death, I presume the Kozuki clan is finished.
Momo: Nooo! Father is a great warrior! One day I will carry this nation on my shoulders!
Kaido: A dream someone else put in your mouth. I didn't realise you were so young... Unless there is some twist coming I consider Kaido a literal dragon (Punk Hazard subject) with a Hito fruit. At least that would explain his behavior and reputation somewhat, with Chopper as a reference.

Really enjoyed Oden hanging out with the kids. Wish we would have gotten more of that during the FB.

It is refreshing to have a villain who is just a big, violent, reckless dumbass. Just like the brutish muscle of a villain killed said villain and took over, or something.

KingampQueen

I think Oda made Oden stronger than Kaido to humanize Kaido. It would be very unsatisfactory if Luffy had to gang up on Kaido (because that hypes the antagonist and makes the main character look pathetic), so this flashback shows that Kaido is very strong but there are other very strong people in the OP world.

I'm sure Big Mom's beef with Elbaf is also related to some Oden-like figure (i.e., some really powerful individual, Loki perhaps?) that's protecting Elbaf from her.

So anyway my point is that the precedent Oden set will make it easier for Oda to make Luffy vs Kaido a satisfactory fight, and Luffy will finally reach that level we've been waiting for.

Claudio

This was Kaido from 20 years ago. He is totally different now and we still haven't seen his hybrid and awakened form so I'm not sure I'd call Oden stronger. Regardless; Luffy is totally going to gang up on him so get ready to call him "pathetic".

Big mom's beef with Elbaf is because of what she did in her flashback and because she tried to replace Lola with Chiffon for Loki.

STP_PS

What a satisfying chapter! Seeing the final Scabbard being fleshed out was a much needed addition; curiously enough having his second persona around for this long adds to the depth of his character and the chapter. That's fine story-telling indeed in terms of execution and timing. Kudos to Oda.

The next step is "sailing" to Onigashima. By the way, I don't believe they will sail there. They will FLY over the stormy sea instead and nobody will see them coming! remember that scene with kids adding hot air balloons to their ships to have them fly during the city festivities? From all the strawhats the one who actually got to see this was Sanji; and we know that strategy and Sanji go side by side. It was pretty subtle and almost innocuous and a nice touch that enriches the world. But it has more to it….

peeko

@Kaido:

I don't really mind Denjiro being Kyoshiro, I just might have found it cooler if he wasn't and Kyoshiro was more of a rogue with his own agenda.

I wonder if Oda didn't intend for Kyoshiro's hair to be blue like it is in the anime. Because when we see his new hair for the first time it really feels like it suddenly whitened from his rage and emotion. But maybe he just dyed it.

Or maybe his hairs were a very dark blue, and turned light blue

DatYute

@epoch:

Although Denjiro's physical transformation is polarizing, what is truly unbelievable is the space where he now exists. He rose from the extremes of a tortured life to live a life of opulence under his torturer - serving at his will and protecting him. If his goal (as some have opined) is to find out who the traitor is while waiting for the return of the time travellers isn't absurd, I don't know what is. Not only has he protected Orochi from death, he has presumably killed for him - even going as far as injuring the child of his liege Lord to keep up appearances. He could have let Zoro kill Orochi and would have come out blameless yet he didn't. He could have even killed Orochi and fled, after all, he could live three different lives (as Denjiro, as Kyoshiro, and as the Witching Hour Boy) without incidence. This would have made Kaido's hold on Wano nebulous and would have removed a nasty ruler from Wano. He hasn't done any of these nor has he been able to stop the traitor from passing info to Orochi as far as we know. He does have a lot of explaining to do to the Scabbards and Wanoese people.

Very good points. When you look at it like this, there has to be more to his plan/why he couldn't just off Orochi himself.

Razh

@epoch:

Although Denjiro's physical transformation is polarizing, what is truly unbelievable is the space where he now exists. He rose from the extremes of a tortured life to live a life of opulence under his torturer - serving at his will and protecting him. If his goal (as some have opined) is to find out who the traitor is while waiting for the return of the time travellers isn't absurd, I don't know what is. Not only has he protected Orochi from death, he has presumably killed for him - even going as far as injuring the child of his liege Lord to keep up appearances. He could have let Zoro kill Orochi and would have come out blameless yet he didn't. He could have even killed Orochi and fled, after all, he could live three different lives (as Denjiro, as Kyoshiro, and as the Witching Hour Boy) without incidence. This would have made Kaido's hold on Wano nebulous and would have removed a nasty ruler from Wano. He hasn't done any of these nor has he been able to stop the traitor from passing info to Orochi as far as we know. He does have a lot of explaining to do to the Scabbards and Wanoese people.

You're forgetting he also let Shimotsuki die. I'm sure he could have stopped things from going that far if he tried.

It's very likely he knows a lot more than us, and killing off Orochi possibly wouldn't solve any of Wano's problems in the long run. It's very likely he's playing a long game for a chance of taking care of both Kaido and Orochi at the same time while using every means necessary, even sacrificing old friends if needed.

mrsword

@epoch:

Although Denjiro's physical transformation is polarizing, what is truly unbelievable is the space where he now exists. He rose from the extremes of a tortured life to live a life of opulence under his torturer - serving at his will and protecting him. If his goal (as some have opined) is to find out who the traitor is while waiting for the return of the time travellers isn't absurd, I don't know what is. Not only has he protected Orochi from death, he has presumably killed for him - even going as far as injuring the child of his liege Lord to keep up appearances. He could have let Zoro kill Orochi and would have come out blameless yet he didn't. He could have even killed Orochi and fled, after all, he could live three different lives (as Denjiro, as Kyoshiro, and as the Witching Hour Boy) without incidence. This would have made Kaido's hold on Wano nebulous and would have removed a nasty ruler from Wano. He hasn't done any of these nor has he been able to stop the traitor from passing info to Orochi as far as we know. He does have a lot of explaining to do to the Scabbards and Wanoese people.

He can't do anything while Kaidou is around. So what do you suggest exactly? Killing Orochi won't save Wano or avenge Oden.

His best bet was to wait the 20 years, and believe in the words of his master.

desa

@epoch:

1. Making to the end of the world or achieving your dreams can make life blase. This can be seen in how none of the Gol D. Roger pirates made anything meaningful of themselves after Laugh Tale. They just gave up on everything and set their sight on the prophecy.

Crocus was already living on the latter before Roger and Ray seemed to be a random chill fisherman when he met Roger. There's really nothing to prove they gave up on life or their goals. They didnt have complicated lives or goal to begin with. Roger was the super ambitious one that dragged them into his crazy adventure.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

I much prefer angry and ponytail Kyoshiro to the pompadour look.

CaptainAppleJack

@desa:

I much prefer angry and ponytail Kyoshiro to the pompadour look.

I take it as symbolic that the first scene he has the pompadour here is the one where he bows down to Orochi, as if that is the reason his hair looks forward now. So it would be cool if he would go back to the ponytail once he has revealed himself.

Blissed

@CaptainAppleJack:

I take it as symbolic that the first scene he has the pompadour here is the one where he bows down to Orochi, as if that is the reason his hair looks forward now. So it would be cool if he would go back to the ponytail once he has revealed himself.

I would love that, though I'm fine either way because Kyoshiro's evil looking face is the real highlight, his hairstyle is secondary to me.

Cockycent

@Jabra:

Kaido is retarded. Chopper-style weird.

That conversation with Momo, the whole situation, is so absurd. As if Kaido doesn't know how to interact with humans. Read the scene loud a couple times and tell me it's not awkward. Kaido: What is your name? (he knows his name)
Momo: Urgh uffff…!
Kaido: Your father is a fool of a lord (as if he's just repeating things he heard somewhere, like a child).
With your death, I presume the Kozuki clan is finished.
Momo: Nooo! Father is a great warrior! One day I will carry this nation on my shoulders!
Kaido: A dream someone else put in your mouth. I didn't realise you were so young... Unless there is some twist coming I consider Kaido a literal dragon (Punk Hazard subject) with a Hito fruit. At least that would explain his behavior and reputation somewhat, with Chopper as a reference.

Really enjoyed Oden hanging out with the kids. Wish we would have gotten more of that during the FB.

It doesn't sound retarded at all. It goes along with the era that he was said to come from. Garp, Xebec, Roger, WB. It's 1 of those "manly" ways about doing things.

Add the context

Kaido's words to Kid about Luffy playing at being pirates (824)
Kaido formerly being under someone who had a huge goal before (Xebec) and the way this captain ran his crew
the way Kaido obnoxiously taunted Luffy with "what kind of King you said you'd be" after defeating him
his last talk with Oden

He's basically measuring up Momo to see what he's made of. He isn't impressed with his will. That has been a running theme. Momo taking the lead and not just standing behind his retainers.

"What is your name"? - He clearly wants to see what Momo is made of. Despite all of the madness, he wants to see if the kid has anything

"Your father is a fool of a lord" - Almost the same as when he referred to what Luffy is doing as a game and WB, Roger and Oden being soft/fools.

mr.french

Denjiro has the most desired position right now currently in the present. In charge of the capital, a "Shogun" for the day perhaps you could say.

How wonderful would it be, if the traitor/spy makes an appearance to reveal further movements made by the rebellion - and has to reveal this information to Denjiro being that Orochi is no longer in the capital.

Monquito

@mr.french:

Denjiro has the most desired position right now currently in the present. In charge of the capital, a "Shogun" for the day perhaps you could say.

How wonderful would it be, if the traitor/spy makes an appearance to reveal further movements made by the rebellion - and has to reveal this information to Denjiro being that Orochi is no longer in the capital.

Oh gosh, this would be awesome.

But personally I got the feeling Law already figured who is it, after all, he's the Batman of One Piece, the 'I totally saw this coming and I had a plan for that too' guy.

Claudio

Law the "batman" of one piece?

If he figured anything out; it is because shinobu accused his crew of spilling the beans.

MrBits

I like the beginning of the chapter with Oden and the Akazaya's escape, and I liked the end of the chapter with Denjiro. That stuff was very heartwarming and satisfying. Denjiro is a cool dude.

Didn't like the stuff in the middle though. Kaidou leaving instead of killing Momo and his family is very frustrating, and even if it ends up making sense with future characterization, it's still the kind of villain move that's gotten kind of stale. The Toki stuff also felt kind of weird to me. She runs away just to give a cryptic speech to some towns people?

Cockycent

If there was a Batman, it would be Dragon. He dresses in a suit and thwarts the "bad guys".

andre

@Cockycent:

If there was a Batman, it would be Dragon. He dresses in a suit and thwarts the "bad guys".

There is a batman, and he's glorious:

!
! Just Kidding:
!

Monquito

@Claudio:

Law the "batman" of one piece?

If he figured anything out; it is because shinobu accused his crew of spilling the beans.

He came up with a back up plan at every neccesary moment in PH and Dressrosa, most, as ridiculous as Batman's usually are.

Besides, they all knew the Port message was exposed, his scene with Shinobu was a bulk of red herring stuff.
the fact that he gave himself up and told his crew not to tell Luffy he was caught, and his suspicious look the last time we saw him, it kinda feels like, he already figured out, or has an on going plan to find out.

after all, he was at the capital, and the bridge connecting The Flower Capital to Udon's port was not blown up. It's weird he didn't show up, there was nothing stopping him from doing so.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@andre:

There is a batman, and he's glorious:

! https://i.imgur.com/AZkdAcs.png
! Just Kidding:
! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/2/2d/Batman_Anime_Infobox.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20190825131312&path-prefix=es

That guy is like the Man-bat of the Batman series. jeh.

andre

Sanji as Batman:

Voracious sexual appetite

Black costume with mask

Lots of inherited money (eventually)

Zoro=Superman as far as frenemies go.

Cockycent

@andre:

Sanji as Batman:

Voracious sexual appetite

Black costume with mask

Lots of inherited money (eventually)

Zoro=Superman as far as frenemies go.

I would love Mr Prince back. There's only been little flashes of him.

Shiebs

I wonder if Oda’s done having Sanji being the hype man, you know the character used to hype up the bad guy by showing that he can fight a character that strong, you know like when he fought Vergo and Doflamingo

There’s other characters like this in fiction but I’m drawing a blank thinking of others

andre

@Shiebs:

I wonder if Oda’s done having Sanji being the hype man, you know the character used to hype up the bad guy by showing that he can fight a character that strong, you know like when he fought Vergo and Doflamingo

There’s other characters like this in fiction but I’m drawing a blank thinking of others

Gohan and Vegeta, Rock Lee, Kakashi, Megumi Tadokoro, Genos. That's off the top of me head.

uniaka ikuzakas

@Shiebs:

I wonder if Oda’s done having Sanji being the hype man, you know the character used to hype up the bad guy by showing that he can fight a character that strong, you know like when he fought Vergo and Doflamingo

There’s other characters like this in fiction but I’m drawing a blank thinking of others

Too late to do it with kaidou since he even 1 shot luffy himself early on, but now with raid suit that could be by far his biggest power up until eos, sanji could really make some villains look bad, so oda may not do it anymore. At least pre raid suit we knew sanji still has rooms to grow since his time skip training was used more for cooking and self train.

And I would like it if oda stops making the main cast look like crap in combat to hype the flavor of the week villain.

Claudio

Don't worry. Oda can still have King or Queen beat Sanji.

uniaka ikuzakas

@Claudio:

Don't worry. Oda can still have King or Queen beat Sanji.

I doubt he will take on king or queen with Kidd, law, shuten maru all other scabbards and supernovas around? what are all going to take on? Flying 6 or have kaidou be a 10 vs 1 battle?

Claudio

So you think Sanji is not going to be involved in any fight?
Their are plenty of "Animal Kingdom Pirates" for everyone to fight. Then their is some Big Mom Pirates and Orochi's faction.

uniaka ikuzakas

@Claudio:

So you think Sanji is not going to be involved in any fight?
Their are plenty of "Animal Kingdom Pirates" for everyone to fight. Then their is some Big mom Pirates and Orochi's faction.

He will be involved in some kind of fight, but there are 2 yonkou crews, not just beats pirates. So maybe sanji will take on his family in law, like the guy known to have the only weakness of the raid suit, the candy bullets of perospero, or his finish his fight with daifuku. don't bet on king of and queen.

It makes way more sense after Whole cake island arc for sanji to take on bm pirates. Like sun pirates, jimbe and vinsmokes could still be the prisoners of big mom, because that is how that arc ended.

And I'm also betting on Usopp vs Flampe.

Sengokusgoat

It's gonna be King vs Zoro and Queen vs Sanji guys. The sooner you come to terms with that, the better.

Claudio

Zoro is definitely going to participate in the fight against Kaido himself. You all need to come to terms with this.

As for Sanji; Im not sure. All I know is Oda can't ignore the "Worst Generation" and the Scabbards.

uniaka ikuzakas

@Claudio:

Zoro is definitely going to participate in the fight against Kaido himself. You all need to come to terms with this.

As for Sanji; Im not sure. All I know is Oda can't ignore the "Worst Generation" and the Scabbards.

The bright side is that luffy has many samurais swordmen in wano to pick from as new nakama when kaidou kills zoro.:ninja:

Jmena

@uniaka:

The bright side is that luffy has many samurais swordmen in wano to pick from as new nakama when kaidou kills zoro.:ninja:

Denjiro for Zoro, Kawamatsu for Jimbe XDXDXDXD

Monquito

it sounds much more fitting if it goes Wano-kunians(Scabbies, Yakuza, Momo) vs Wano-kunians(Oniwabanshu, Mimawarigumi, Orochi)

and Pirates(Strawhats, Worst Gens) vs Pirates(Beast and Big Mom's)

with a couple of exeptions here and there, also considering several people are going down quickly to hype the Worst Gens, and at some point Linlin could go amnesia mode.

and the biggest consideration of all, Queen, King and Jack could get beaten with team ups or assistances(Like how Orlombus helped Zoro, and Nami helped Luffy with Cracker)

auem

Against 2 Yonkou and some 30 thousand soldiers, present group( including minks and Zunisha) isn't sufficient. I am expecting new players. May be marine SSG will be the crucial third party.

mrsword

@auem:

Against 2 Yonkou and some 30 thousand soldiers, present group( including minks and Zunisha) isn't sufficient. I am expecting new players. May be marine SSG will be the crucial third party.

30k is nothing, didn't Luffy knock out 50k at Fishman Island?

Also, you're very much underestimating Sulong Mink army.

wolfwood

It really is the wrong end of the story for 30K grunts to mean anything.

Even in east blue Kriegs 5000 man pirate fleet was a joke.

auem

@mrsword:

30k is nothing, didn't Luffy knock out 50k at Fishman Island?

Also, you're very much underestimating Sulong Mink army.

Group of some random pirates vs. 20,000 of a Yonkou's troop. Mink will be fighting the 'others' and the gifters. Orochi has some 10000 of samurai which will engage with samurai of Hyogoro and other yakuza lords.You are left with Kaidou with his commanders and BM with her offsprings. Very difficult for Strawhats and 9 scabbards.

Monquito

I could see at least 10,000 going down by Luffy and Kidd's conquerors.

mrsword

@auem:

Group of some random pirates vs. 20,000 of a Yonkou's troop. Mink will be fighting the 'others' and the gifters. Orochi has some 10000 of samurai which will engage with samurai of Hyogoro and other yakuza lords.You are left with Kaidou with his commanders and BM with her offsprings. Very difficult for Strawhats and 9 scabbards.

"Yonkou troop" means nothing. Luffy already knocked them in 924, and Shanks knocked many back in WB ship. Fodder is fodder.

It will be a tough challenge, but not because of the 30k number. Back in marineford, the 100K fodders didn't amount to much.

Gia Sado

The problem likely isnt even the number of fighters, but the number of high teir fighters.

You have:

Kaido, 3 calamities, 9-10 Numbers and 5 Top Headliners (you can probably subtract Drake or any Supernova from probably being a legitimate supporter on Kaido's side and assume Page One is still a factor)
Big Mom, 1 sweet commander (assuming Kata and Cracker are not on the boat, which I assume not), 1 former sweet commander, and at least 3 additional powerhouses (Daifuku, Campote and Perospero, and maaaaaybe Oven)
This does not include Orochi's retainers, some of whom ha ve unique designs, but i think they will be mainly fodder battles anyway. The Onibawanshu and the other group Orochi has (i forget the name), and perhaps even the Shinsengumi if they exist could add to that.

That right there is a ton (23-24 notable powerhouses on the Yonko side of things, maaaaybe a couple more on Orochi's army that we dont know about), but I feel the that Luffy's side has the strength already outside of the 2 Yonko. I dont think there will be TOO much interference from the outside.

Luffy and his 9 crew members. Assuming everyone will FINALLY get a fight (now is the time to do it Oda), that covers 10 of the 24 fighters on the Yonko side. You can even make a few possible matchups: Zoro vs. King, Sanji vs. Queen, Jinbe vs. Jack, Robin vs. Onibawanshu (seems like a cool thing to do for her), Usopp/Franky/Brook/Chopper/Nami vs. The 5 remaining Flying Six.
9 scabbards vs. 9 numbers anyone? Assuming they go from 2-10, it can align well.
Carrot vs. Pero? Thematically it makes sense.
6 Supernova (Law, Kid, Killer, and assuming Drake, Hawkins and Apoo betray Kaido) could face any extraneous fighters, like Smoothie, Campote, Daifuku, Snack, etc. In the end they'll probably help Luffy face the 2 Yonko along with others too.

Now obviously the war wont be that formulaic or obvious, but I think we have plenty of fighters to take on these Yonko. We have to remember, its the Yonko that underestimate the good side, and that is pretty vital. The 9 scabbards are immensely strong, and I think thats why Oda added the numbers, in particular to offset the number of powerful fighters on Luffy's side.

Sure, there may be some extraneous forces that come besides Neko/Jinbe/Sun Pirates, but I doubt they are at all related to the marines or government. They are entirely busy with something else and I think that was Oda telling us they wont come to Wano. I dont think there will be a 3rd side to this war., but Izo and a remaining set of WB pirates may join in on this fight. While Marco cant, it doesnt mean his crew wouldnt.

So if people are concerned about Luffy and a few rookies taking on Yonko, that may help them.