Throughout this month, we will be testing new features (like search) so you may experience some hiccups from time to time. We'll try to not be too disruptive...
Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido
-
Yay! New Chappie!
-
Hopefully in a couple weeks we'll see a resurgence of the Oden eating Oden memes.
-
Well, that was kinda lackluster.
-
Hehe knew it wasn't going to be a fair 1 on 1 against Kaido.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Break next week.
:sad: -
The battle was hyped a lot last week and even referred to as "Hour of legends" and yet it was very underwhelming.
Kaidou appeared static due to his lack of involvement throughout the arc so far. The clash between Oden and Kaidou was 1 hit and Oden made short work of Kaidou, its only thanks to trickery Kaidou won, which is underwhelming for the big villain that his fight vs luffy will be the climax of a saga that spanned over 300 chapters.
Really didn't like this chapter at all.
-
I'm pretty damn sure we'll be getting another flashback, if not multiple, in this arc.
-
I was not particularly enthralled by this chapter, and I don't imagine most of this thread will be. In a way, though, it felt inevitable. No way Oda could have done justice to THE battle between the Nine Red Scabbards and Beasts Pirates in a single chapter, but it wasn't gonna be likely for us to get a lengthened focus on a past event. Not really a justification from a story standpoint, but it does feel expected from a production standpoint.
I don't really have a clear opinion yet on Oden's fight with Kaido and their relation to each other power-wise. I feel like part of the fanbase has built this ridiculous wall around every character introduced as a 四皇 and won't be pleased with any upstart who gives them a challenge. Even if said upstart has been consistently portrayed as one of the top samurai in a country whose strength has helped it stand alone. With that being said, though, I'm not sure that Oden needed to pull out Higurashi to make Oden lose. One of the biggest things we know about Kaido so far is that he has lost battles, but no one's been able to finish him off, and he ultimately powers his way to the top. Oden's softness and compassion is a well documented trait of his, so it's not like Higurashi's trick was completely out of the blue…I'm just questioning how necessary it was.
Regardless, I know this for sure: Human Kaido - much, much more threatening than Dragon Kaido. Though I mean, if I was an unkillable titan I would definitely fuck around during battle flying and breathing fire, cause that's not too much fun to do AFTER ending my opponent in one blow with my mace. This chapter made me certain that we are getting a Kaido flashback, considering his rather matter of fact tone during the fight as well as King and Queen being shadowed. Maybe said flashback will develop my opinion more on these turn of events. Also, if swords are the only thing that has injured him, and one of those swords is now in Zoro's possession, what does this mean for Luffy?
I am not immortal I am just a man
A power-craving tyrant
Beyond the shadows in the sand
Men have come to fear me
Many bow and cry
Known across the desert
I am the one who will not die -
Is this actually the "Hour of Legends", might've been referring to Oden's death and what not, since that's what the people of Wano would've actually witnessed.
-
It's a buildup dudes… The fucked up shit is coming soon
-
Meh chapter for me, like it was said several times previously I don't like Oda showing Kaido in such position of weakness for two reasons
it shatters the image of Kaido being that ultimate beast in duel because while his introduction chapter says that he suffered defeat, it also says that one should always bet on him in 1 vs 1.
it also makes Oden extremely dumb for dancing like a clown for 5 years and trusting Orochi (the guy who usurped a country through nothing but lies and trickery) when he could have done something. I hope we're going to get a good explanation on this. It simply being to avoid civilian casualties won't be enough since during these 5 years said civilians were getting overworked and would get killed if they refused to obey. -
This chapter reminds me a lot of how Wano Country was hyped as an independent nation whose warriors were the reason for this independence. I feel like a lot of us expected this hype to translate into a stiff challenge for the Straw Hats, and while Oda has made good on this hype, he's showcased it in the protagonists and allies. Make of it what you will.
-
It's funny when you consider Oden is pratically a higher ranked subordinate for both Whitebeard and Roger.
-
So Kaido is not from Onigashima.
It seems like it happened to Oden the same to Bartolomeo when he tried to cut Gladius's neck but failed cause his fat body decieved him lmao
-
In vacuum I like the Oden of this chapter that is like that unstoppable that was foolish to trust the snake and is now about to slay it down. And my feeling when reading was that Oden was about to do just that until the woman switch it. From the way Kaido fell to Oden decisive statement, to Kaido's face. It tells me that man was crazier than I thought and I could have died. Then they get overwhelmed by the sheer number of the other side. He gets to be portrayed as the monster of Wano one last time. And Kaido will rely on not having used his hybrid form since he fought Whitebeard or the rocks to impress back the readers.
Young Shinobu does look good and I suppose her training and knowledge of the castle will help with escaping.
I think I could like this chapter if it was 2-3 months after Oden's return instead years later. Taking so long for it to boil over makes it hard for me to muster any positive feeling about Oden feeling fed up. Like that random citizen I feel it's a bit too late for me not to be left cold. I might had more sympathy if instead of protecting the country he stood down because Orochi had his family in his dungeons, ready to be executed as soon as he moved and he didn't want to risk their lives.
Also it's too late to make me feel like the samurai live up to their names. It more feel like Oden was great and since people don't know anything about them they assumed they were usually of his caliber.
Unnecessary tangent
! Like usual I do not like this new perspective on Whitebeard were he was a softie and was unwilling to risk people. I don't know for Roger because he was never in that position but we saw with Whitebeard that he refused to stand down for safety at MarineFord or that Luffy was telling Vivi that people die and refused to stand down for safety at Ennias Lobby.
! But with this new history I guess Oden learn to go from madman that maybe could have saved his country to softie that let his chance pass. -
It's funny when you consider Oden is pratically a higher ranked subordinate for both Whitebeard and Roger.
Well i mean Queen did manage to clonk BM on the head that one time.
-
do you think the traitor can be denjiro? or even Toki?
-
do you think the traitor can be denjiro? or even Toki?
Unless there's more than one traitor, no. There's too many things happening in the present day that Denjiro should have no idea about.
-
Something seems eerily off with how much Toki is smiling throughout all this. I really hope Oda drops some surprise about why she has that demeanor (does she know something about the future?). Just does not seem like the reaction I would expect a concerned parent/wife to have.
-
-
Something seems eerily off with how much Toki is smiling throughout all this. I really hope Oda drops some surprise about why she has that demeanor (does she know something about the future?). Just does not seem like the reaction I would expect a concerned parent/wife to have.
It's the typical reaction of a good One Piece mother, at least how Oda seems to see it. Smile through the tough times, don't needlessly burden the children with reality. 9 out of 10 mothers behave exactly like Toki.
-
I'm suprised the house ninja stayed loyal so long tbh.
They all seemed like complete turncoats before.
-
The battle was hyped a lot last week and even referred to as "Hour of legends" and yet it was very underwhelming.
Kaidou appeared static due to his lack of involvement throughout the arc so far. The clash between Oden and Kaidou was 1 hit and Oden made short work of Kaidou, its only thanks to trickery Kaidou won, which is underwhelming for the big villain that his fight vs luffy will be the climax of a saga that spanned over 300 chapters.
Really didn't like this chapter at all.
I dont want to think this is the "hour of legends" but at the same time idk what else it could be
-
do you think the traitor can be denjiro? or even Toki?
What's for sure is that we're slowly running out of viable traitor candidates. Shinobu could still be it, but both her behaviour in battle and motivations for joining Oden seem genuine. Kiku is still suspicious, but what would be her motive ? Denjiro is the missing link to something, but seeing how he took part in the battle and all I find it increasingly harder for him to shoulder the blame. Most other people whom we've seen in both eras can not have possibly known enough in the present to leak information to both Jack and Orochi. I'm not sure where to look next.
The spy of the past who informed Kaido of Oden's move is likely the old hag though: seeing how she can even copy Momonosuke, she must have been at Kokzuki castle not too long ago. But, since she isn't part of the picture anymore in the present, someone else leaked information to Orochi.
Could still be a last-minute reveal of some new character, but that would fall quite flat on me. -
Speaking of Shinobu, how old is she supposed to be? It looks like she aged like 50 years in 20.
-
Speaking of Shinobu, how old is she supposed to be? It looks like she aged like 50 years in 20.
Well Kinemon would've been like 56 years old if he hadn't time jumped. And i seem to recall that she was in some shape or form Kinemons protege before that. So she should be like 40-46 i suppose?
-
Speaking of Shinobu, how old is she supposed to be? It looks like she aged like 50 years in 20.
Maybe her Mature Mature fruit affected her body, similiar to Alvida's.
-
Speaking of Shinobu, how old is she supposed to be? It looks like she aged like 50 years in 20.
Remember the OP aging law…
so, Shinobi didn't have the great time.
-
Nami looks way too good at 60.
-
Loved some of the details in this chapter, like Hiyori kicking Momo in the face. That was a scene that had to be shown before the flashback.
-
Man
I'd love to see Zoro slice up Kaido like that
-
Finally getting to read.
Minatomo just finished the mansion before Kaido came out to fight. Oda is either just covering everything or trying to show me something. I don't know how Kinemon got to know who built it. Maybe it's nothing that I should question, but I will keep it in the back of my head. It can just be that Minatomo is the best or when they come from the future, that info is provided by some allies.
Tho the deal hasn't been fully explained, but this convo confirms that Oden chose the non violent route and was naive enough to think his opponents would hold up their end.
Young Shinobu is dressed like the chick from the Mimawarigumi. It just may be a ninja/police thing
For 3 chapters, i've watched people say "next chapter is the last of the fb". I don't get why some thought that we could spend so much time on the Roger and WB adventures, then speed blitz through the fall of Oden in Wano. I think there might be 2 more chapters at most to close this fb. Next chapter, the Scabbards are saved by Oden, the chapter after is the race to the castle for Toki, Hiyori and Momo.
11 chapters
- 4 chapters to cover Oden's rise and the how his vassals came along
- 4 1/2 ch. as a Pirate
- 2 1/2 ch. so far for the return
-
Much better chapter than the spoilers and my speed-skim through the scans made it out to be, but I'm still pretty mixed on the chapter. Storywise I thought it was fine/acceptable, but the choreography was underwhelming. Too many disconnected panels of the Akazaya fighting random henchmen. This should have been 2 chapters long, I think.
I'm okay with Kaidou resorting to foul play for now, but he needs to make it a regular part of his character. Make sure he keeps being a cheat during the present day conflict as well.
Originally Posted by MrBits
Place your bets. Is [AlphaMale/AlphaBro, an obvious ban evader] going to get banned again today, tomorrow, or in a week?
Originally Posted by AlphaBro
okay let's bet . Would love to see your losing face next week !
An actual bet and conversation on the Chapter 905 thread, literally an hour before he got banned again.
-
Much better chapter than the spoilers and my speed-skim through the scans made it out to be, but I'm still pretty mixed on the chapter. Storywise I thought it was fine/acceptable, but the choreography was underwhelming. Too many disconnected panels of the Akazaya fighting random henchmen. This should have been 2 chapters long, I think.
I'm okay with Kaidou resorting to foul play for now, but he needs to make it a regular part of his character. Make sure he keeps being a cheat during the present day conflict as well.
Maybe Jack and Queen using viruses and poison gas plays into that cheating. Maybe their whole crew use underhanded means and it's all Kaidou approved.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
-
Maybe Jack and Queen using viruses and poison gas plays into that cheating. Maybe their whole crew use underhanded means and it's all Kaidou approved.
I was thinking the same thing. I guess I was just saying that if Kaidou being a cheat is going to be a thing, then he should be the biggest cheat of all his crew.
-
So is the dragon Kaidou's true form, I wonder, with the big angry giant his actual Fruit power.
-
Man, looking at some of the replies to this one in the spoiler threads was a trip. Do some people think being a fan of a character is meant to be the same as barracking for a sports team? Because that's what it feels like. All that matters is your team's win, and if they're looking bad or something's going wrong, the other team is cheating or the ref made a bad call, and heaven forbid you ever acknowledge the rival team made a good play. Honestly that kinda thing often seems toxic enough in the context of sports, let alone when you try to apply it to a narrative which by design has to give different characters highs and lows and can't be so all or nothing. I'm not one to tell other people the right or wrong ways to enjoy their media, but it really doesn't sound like a lot of you guys are having fun.
But anyway, things this week moved a lot faster than I expected them to. I was predicting a bit of introspection during the march to battle, but like Oden himself, I was taken off-guard by Kaido's unexpected appearance. Kaido mentions a spy in Oden's midst, and we're really running out of viable traitor candidates now. The stuff with Shinobi later on goes a long way to take her out of the running, so I'm leaning pretty hard towards Kanjuro for the moment. The showdown is marvelously framed, particularly the hills of minions and Kaido himself coiled around a mountain, and the middle row of page five, where Oden's group on the hilltop are encircled by the coils of Kaido's body.
Kaido talks about why things are happening the way they are. We learn that he was worried about the state of affairs five years ago. I would have liked if he'd mentioned how he felt when Oden stopped in and left again for the Poneglyph, as it feels like a significant moment to me, but we do still get emphasis on the idea that the sooner Oden had done this the better it would have gone. The big dragon laments Oden not living up to his reputation, but to be honest it's amazing that any reputation for aman like that could be enduring. Oden's been pretty consistent in not caring if he looks foolish or weak or villainous to others as long as he gets to help people, and that IDGAF attitude has been part of what charmed people to him. I wonder what he's actually heard about Oden, and whether that info came through Orochi, the people of Wano, or things he heard about Oden's career in piracy.
I don't know if this is a quirk in the translation or not, but it doesn't feel right that he says "Newgate and Roger were like that too." Past tense is alright for Roger, but Newgate should still be a clear present threat to Kaido. Is he just confident? Have they not really clashed yet?
Then we get a scene of epic battle. It's a shame Pirate Warriors 4 definitely isn't getting this far, because it feels like a perfect scene for that kind of game. The use of screentones in the Scabbard closeups are odd.During the battle it's just Kanjuro and Shura shaded in. At the end of the chapter it's Ashura, Kawamatsu, Dogstorm and Catviper. I don't think there's any concrete pattern you could read into either group (or either set of remainders).
There's a brief and perhaps oddly placed cutaway to Yasui and Oden's family. Toki is oddly calm, but I guess living for 800 years would give you a bit of serenity like that, while Hyori and Momo clearly haven't been made aware of how serious the situation is. What a rude awakening they're in for. Considering how recent this is for them and how much whiplash it must have caused, Momo's behaviour up to this point makes a lot more sense.
Back to the battle. Good to get some background for Shinobu and why she's so dedicated but not a Scabbard, but there's nothing super remarkable about what we learn of her. Does make it very unlikely she's the traitor though, as mentioned.
The glimpses of the fight we see make me desperately want more, but I'm not going to say it's a fault in the chapter that we don't get it because it's going to happen again with higher stakes and characters I care more about just a few chapters in the future. The hoards of enemies combined with a terrifying dragon Kaido throwing fire down from the sky makes for an incredibly intimidating enemy. Kaido's dragon form always seems to come with a storm. It's said that these eastern style dragons have weather powers and fly by climbing along the clouds. Bodes kinda poorly for Sulong forms in the present day battle of Onigashima, doesn't it?
Kaido takes his wound in an absolutely gorgeous spread page, then Oden goes down fast and hard from a blow to the back of the head after being distracted by the Clone Clone Fruit. Well, Kaido and Orochi did go out of their way to prove Oden would let go of a reckless attack to protect his family. Wonder how we're going to go from here to the death of the Clone hag though. Also, is that the traitor stabbing Ashura in the back? What a surprisingly blatant move to pull, especially after Oden had fallen and the battle was already won.
Oden's capture doesn't seem to have inspired the kind of love for him that things happening in the present have implied. There's one last big moment to come in this story, somehow involving his execution and the Scabbards' mad dash to get to Toki and the kids before Kaido and Orochi do. Not sure what it could be considering how firmly against Oden the public sentiment is at the moment, but I'm always interested to find out.
The wait for execution in the Flower Capital prison is a mirror of Yasuie and the rounded up samurai in act 2. It feels weird that Wano has been driven by all these little snippets from and reflections of the past, but we're only now getting the context to make them all work. It feels like an arc built for the reread, given what a puzzle its present and past have become. Maybe it's meant to reflect the time travel aspect, maybe it's just Oda experimenting with structure. The binge reread when all is said and done and everyone knows what's going on is going to elevate the story a lot, I think, especially for people who aren't really vibing the structure of the week to week version.
Going to be a long two weeks waiting on the next part. I'm predicting a swift end to the flashback after the next one. A couple of chapters at most.
-
The battle was hyped a lot last week and even referred to as "Hour of legends" and yet it was very underwhelming.
Kaidou appeared static due to his lack of involvement throughout the arc so far. The clash between Oden and Kaidou was 1 hit and Oden made short work of Kaidou, its only thanks to trickery Kaidou won, which is underwhelming for the big villain that his fight vs luffy will be the climax of a saga that spanned over 300 chapters.
Really didn't like this chapter at all.
Actually…
Hour of Legends was not this... It is quite clear the citizens of Wano are giving two rats about this entire thing, or rather are cold about it... So The Hour of Legends definitely needs to be something that is coming.
You have to realize that 10 of the samurai were sentenced to die and bar one more or less it is clear that the others have not...
So stay tunned
Also traitor? Is it Toki...? Or someone else. She is awfully calm in all the pannels
人事を尽くして天命を待つ
-
Also, is that the traitor stabbing Ashura in the back? What a surprisingly blatant move to pull, especially after Oden had fallen and the battle was already won.
I think it's supposed to have happen in the middle of the big brawl using the confusion instead of move made after Oden was down.
I wonder if the boiling will help us narrow down the traitor like the process or order of the boiling since Kaido probably isn't killing him/her.
-
Also, is that the traitor stabbing Ashura in the back? What a surprisingly blatant move to pull, especially after Oden had fallen and the battle was already won.
I initially read it as him losing his focus when Oden goes down, only to be caught off-guard by his opponent. But now you mention it, that panel does have a back-stabbing flavor.
-
If shinobu was kinemon's protegee then for sure he shared valuable information with her, even if oden didn't knew about her/it. The way oden rejected her is same way oden rejected orochi when he first meets him. There is none else who can be the traitor.
-
@uniaka:
If shinobu was kinemon's protegee then for sure he shared valuable information with her, even if oden didn't knew about her/it. The way oden rejected her is same way oden rejected orochi when he first meets him. There is none else who can be the traitor.
Well i mean he only did that so they wouldn't boil her too. She'd have to be shit at being a ninja not to pick up on that. Not that i have anything against her being a traitor but if that was her turn to darkness i'd laugh. Like oh no Oden shamed my honor by not allowing me to be boiled too
-
Well i mean he only did that so they wouldn't boil her too. She'd have to be shit at being a ninja not to pick up on that. Not that i have anything against her being a traitor but if that was her turn to darkness i'd laugh. Like oh no Oden shamed my honor by not allowing me to be boiled too
Didn't he rejected her since battle started, when she saved him, like don't join this battle. As her reason to betray, him and shinobu seem to go way back, ever since she was a kid, who knows what he did to her. Like she was kinemon's protegee yet didn't tell him anything for 5 years about the deal oden made with orochi, not even send him a note or anything.
-
I initially read it as him losing his focus when Oden goes down, only to be caught off-guard by his opponent. But now you mention it, that panel does have a back-stabbing flavor.
Isn't that supposed to be King?
-
i think a lot of people were surprised to see that Kaidou was a strategist whereas most of suppose he was more of the 'let think after' kind of guy
-
It feels like an arc built for the reread, given what a puzzle its present and past have become. Maybe it's meant to reflect the time travel aspect, maybe it's just Oda experimenting with structure. The binge reread when all is said and done and everyone knows what's going on is going to elevate the story a lot, I think, especially for people who aren't really vibing the structure of the week to week version.
100% Agreed, I think the strength of Wano will be on the reread or reading the volumes. We already got 6 chapters for the current volume so we will see how it reads then.
Anyways the chapter was good. I think Oda decided to only focus on Oden's fight, as he isn't part of the current story. Its his flashback/story arc so it was important to see him fight. We will see the akazaya nine fight in the current story so there was no need to show them fight, for half a page or so.
So Kaido kinda confirmed that there is a traitor in Oden's party, personally I can't see how anyone can be the traitor at the moment. Some said it might be Kanjuro, Denjiro, Shinobu or even Toki. Tbh Toki seems impossible to me, its his wive and what would she gain from Oden being dead, nothing. Shinobu just joined Oden's party and was kicked out to save her from being boiled, so at least in the current story it seems unlikely to be her. Denjiro is one of his earliest followers same as Kinemon so why should he betray Oden. Same goes for Kanjuro, all of his samurai seem to devoted to him, I can't imagine anyone being the traitor, if it turns out to be one of them I will be surprised and expect a good explanation from Oda.
-
I think it's supposed to have happen in the middle of the big brawl using the confusion instead of move made after Oden was down.
I wonder if the boiling will help us narrow down the traitor like the process or order of the boiling since Kaido probably isn't killing him/her.
I initially read it as him losing his focus when Oden goes down, only to be caught off-guard by his opponent. But now you mention it, that panel does have a back-stabbing flavor.
It could definitely be read both ways. The contrast between the King-like silhouette a panel later and the very not King-like hand doing the stabbing is what's got me thinking about it. I'm hoping to get something concrete about the traitor by the end of the flashback. The order of the boilings (assuming they aren't all thrown in at once) is an interesting idea for how to achieve that.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Gol:
100% Agreed, I think the strength of Wano will be on the reread or reading the volumes. We already got 6 chapters for the current volume so we will see how it reads then.
Anyways the chapter was good. I think Oda decided to only focus on Oden's fight, as he isn't part of the current story. Its his flashback/story arc so it was important to see him fight. We will see the akazaya nine fight in the current story so there was no need to show them fight, for half a page or so.
So Kaido kinda confirmed that there is a traitor in Oden's party, personally I can't see how anyone can be the traitor at the moment. Some said it might be Kanjuro, Denjiro, Shinobu or even Toki. Tbh Toki seems impossible to me, its his wive and what would she gain from Oden being dead, nothing. Shinobu just joined Oden's party and was kicked out to save her from being boiled, so at least in the current story it seems unlikely to be her. Denjiro is one of his earliest followers same as Kinemon so why should he betray Oden. Same goes for Kanjuro, all of his samurai seem to devoted to him, I can't imagine anyone being the traitor, if it turns out to be one of them I will be surprised and expect a good explanation from Oda.
One Piece as a whole is such a different beast both between the weekly and the binge read and between the first and second reads, but Wano feels a lot more designed for the latter two categories than any other arc so far. It's a bold tactic, and hard to say if it contributed to things like Kimetsu catching up sales-wise (will all the Wano volumes get a boost after the arc ends, I wonder?) but I can't blame Oda for wanting to write that way. The weekly reading experience only exists for one moment in time, but the volumes are what's going to be the ongoing legacy for new readers and rereaders. I doubt many other mangaka really get the freedom to let the weekly experience be secondary like that, given how omnipresent the threat of cancellation seems to be.
-
There's a stabbing, then next panel we see King's silhouette and blood dripping from his sword. Not a big mystery that one.
-
I am getting Vibes that Toki is the traitor and has used her fruits power to guide things to where she things "they need to be."
Also a thing of note, Kaido was once again attacked while drunk off his rear end. I wonder how being completely trashed affects things like Haki or the CP9 Martial Arts stuff.
-
Maybe Toki can also see in the future somehow. Otherwise I don't understand how time-travel works. She could end up in the middle of the ocean.
Since she is presumably from Wano and tries to get home, it is implied that she somehow chooses the place where to travel in time or at least a bigger setting (since she didn't get to Wano in all these years) caues if she was on an island that will sink in 1 year and she travels 2 years in the future she will die. If she somehow can see into the future, or just glimpses, she could very well be a key figure in all what is going on. I mean if she saw that many would've died if Oden went face-on with Kaido from the start and told Oden about that, it would support his decision to play a fool for 5 years in hopes things will change.
