Time travel and OP is such a bad fit.
The whole thing just feels wonky
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Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido
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If Toki knows about Shirley prediction and the birth of the 2 kings, she could deduce the 20 years from that
The deal between Oden and Kaidou I assume was : No citizens killed, some ships to open the borders. I'm not sure there is more than that
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If Toki knows about Shirley prediction and the birth of the 2 kings, she could deduce the 20 years from that
There must be an explanation for why she choose 20 years. I mean Wano could've been a total wasteland in 20 if Kaido moved faster then he did. She somehow had to know the SH will arrive there together with Inu and Neko and she must've known that the others (Kawamatsu, Tengu, etc) didn't die. Otherwise, she could've sent them back when Ace returned to Wano to bring Whitebeard there and KO Kaido and Orochi with no sweat.
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There's a stabbing, then next panel we see King's silhouette and blood dripping from his sword. Not a big mystery that one.
I thought so too, but the hand doing the stabbing doesn't have King's black leather suit. Intended, or blunder ?
Then again, that hand could be any other goon from Kaido's army (though many of them also have black gloves). -
I guess to the left, next to the stabbing is the Silhouette of the one who stabbed, which is imo the traitor, too. He/She wears a bracelet.
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I don't think it is the traitor. Oden was defeated, the other retainers were being subdued, why would the traitor do such a risky move as attacking Ashura in the open just to the next minute go back and pretend to be on their side again?
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i think a lot of people were surprised to see that Kaidou was a strategist whereas most of suppose he was more of the 'let think after' kind of guy
That and we thougth he was strong enough to make Orden think it was better to negotiate than to fight… But I feel by now Oden is not the believable character he was in the previos chap...
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I took that as shuten maru and kinemon sensing that oden has fallen so they got distracted allowing enemy to hit shuten maru from behind. it's not king's hand, so maybe random underling hit from behind to weaken the scabbard while king finished him.
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@uniaka:
I took that as shuten maru and kinemon sensing that oden has fallen so they got distracted allowing enemy to hit shuten maru from behind. it's not king's hand, so maybe random underling hit from behind to weaken the scabbard while king finished him.
Giving it's such a small panel, I think that is the way Oda wanted us to take it.
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I also had a hard time understanding what exactly did Oda mean with Ashura's stabbing. I like the idea that ir was the traitor, but are we sure there is one? Kaidou talked of a spy, and it could be the old Kurozomi lady, like someone said.
If there is one, I believe the traitor would be a Squardo situation. Convinced to betray Oden through lies and will turn around when Shinobu tells everyone of what he did. Like, what if Orochi told O-Kiki that Oden left Inu to rot as a prisioner at sea. When Inu comes in the present Kiku repents and rejoins the scabbards
Also, didn't understand the panel where snow starts to fall in the Flower capital. Can someone help me with that? It was just to show the passage of time?
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I also had a hard time understanding what exactly did Oda mean with Ashura's stabbing. I like the idea that ir was the traitor, but are we sure there is one? Kaidou talked of a spy, and it could be the old Kurozomi lady, like someone said.
If there is one, I believe the traitor would be a Squardo situation. Convinced to betray Oden through lies and will turn around when Shinobu tells everyone of what he did. Like, what if Orochi told O-Kiki that Oden left Inu to rot as a prisioner at sea. When Inu comes in the present Kiku repents and rejoins the scabbards
Also, didn't understand the panel where snow starts to fall in the Flower capital. Can someone help me with that? It was just to show the passage of time?
Don't see the point in having the old lady be the spy, given that she's already dead. That'd somehow be more underwhelming than saying Denjiro is the traitor. Anyhow, we've already confirmed there is one in the present day.
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Does the present traitor have to be the same as the traitor back then?
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It's already hard enough to explain everything with just one traitor in the present.
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He's making Shinobu look worse and worse in my opinion. She saw and heard? everything that went down between Oden, Orochi, and the Kurozumis but didn't go to Oden or reveal her intention to change sides until the fated battle 5 years later? She could have been a double agent working for Orochi but then reporting to Oden but I guess that would have ruined Oda's story about Oden waiting around 5 years and not telling anyone anything like an idiot. I usually don't give Oda a hard time about stuff but unless he turns things around she seems pointless. There is no point in her being an ally that saw what happened and did nothing in 5 years. There is no point in her being the traitor as they only ever thought of her as an ally during the battle.
The only thing that makes sense for her character at this point is that because Oden said she wasn't an ally and she was released is for her to use her ninja abilities combined with the fact she still works for the enemy to free everyone. If she doesn't she is completely pointless.
Avatar Artist: Aapo Niemi
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Kaido didn't mention clearly that there's a spy in the castle, that makes me think that the man who fought before against luffy and otama and who has a capacity of hearing from long distance could hear what is going on everywhere like enel's ability.
But in the present the existence of a traitor is an evidence for a lot of reasons, like knowing the identity of raizo and reaching him each time in zou, and the sheet that holds orochi with informations about all the details of his enemies, this paper that i think that is from O-Kiki book, in the anime is pretty clear that she is writing down it and has the same size. -
Actually…
Hour of Legends was not this... It is quite clear the citizens of Wano are giving two rats about this entire thing, or rather are cold about it... So The Hour of Legends definitely needs to be something that is coming.
You have to realize that 10 of the samurai were sentenced to die and bar one more or less it is clear that the others have not...
So stay tunned
Also traitor? Is it Toki...? Or someone else. She is awfully calm in all the pannels
I'll just quote myself by the look of things I am 95% positive it should be Kanuro the guy is playing the clumsy artist and has tons of evidence pointing towards him
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@.access:
I don't think it is the traitor. Oden was defeated, the other retainers were being subdued, why would the traitor do such a risky move as attacking Ashura in the open just to the next minute go back and pretend to be on their side again?
I thought that there must be a reason to show us that stabbing and the silhouette. For sure it has some meaning. The one who stabbed knew that Oda will loose at this point and waited for the right moment.
Oda doesnt draw such things just for fun. -
I imagine one of the 9 scabbards would have seen who the traitor is if he was the one that hit shuten maru, since it looks like scabbards fought close to eachother. The traitor would be known since then.
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@dwo:
I thought that there must be a reason to show us that stabbing and the silhouette. For sure it has some meaning. The one who stabbed knew that Oda will loose at this point and waited for the right moment.
Oda doesnt draw such things just for fun.The problem is this logic suggests the traitor acted in the open because there was no point in pretending anymore after Oden was defeated by Kaido, but then the following scene shows all the retainers were detained and are waiting for execution meaning the traitor went back to pretending again, it doesn't match.
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Ok, so I read a translation that was partly in French which I don't speak any of, but it sounded like Oden did what he did only because he didn't want to cause a war to break out? As if the people who adored and loved him and would lay down their lives for him would not proudly take up arms to kick the interlopers out of their homeland at his command, and doing any less than that would only forestall the inevitable? Was he embarrassing himself and ruining his reputation so that when the time came to stand up to Kaido, no one but his most loyal retainers would have to get involved and shed their blood? Asinine, they deserved to fail if that was how they were planning it. The guy has zero leadership skills if that's so. He didn't attempt to get the rest of the Minks or any of the pirates he was friends with to help a brother out in their time of need? Or at least spend every second of every day training him and his retainers' asses off to make sure that when the time came to strike, they would wipe the floor with Kaido's army? I just don't get it.
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After all the Oden hype, I expected some sort of tactic that would give young Kaido the upper hand. I expected it to involve Orochi instead of some mook and the old hag.
I love the detail of Oden's adrenaline keeping him conscious until he sees that Momo isn't actually there and is safe. Then he finally passes out.
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Plus this leaves unclear at what point did Orochi actually get his Devil Fruit and just how strong he is/was before and after both the 20 years and acquiring the DF power.
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Plus this leaves unclear at what point did Orochi actually get his Devil Fruit and just how strong he is/was before and after both the 20 years and acquiring the DF power.
The old lady gave it to him when they first met, no?
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Don't remember. But it's still not clear what the difference it makes both before and after the 20 years. Also it seems like Orochi must have forgotten he no longer has his barrier slave with him if he's talking smack about how he doesn't bow to Kaido.
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This post is deleted!
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@dwo:
I thought that there must be a reason to show us that stabbing and the silhouette. For sure it has some meaning. The one who stabbed knew that Oda will loose at this point and waited for the right moment.
Oda doesnt draw such things just for fun.Oda sometimes makes mistakes too. From the look of it, the katana hilt doesn't look that different from King's. But then again his katana has the most bland hilt design.
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Don't remember. But it's still not clear what the difference it makes both before and after the 20 years. Also it seems like Orochi must have forgotten he no longer has his barrier slave with him if he's talking smack about how he doesn't bow to Kaido.
When did Orochi say that he doesn't bow to Kaido? He's 100% Kaido's bitch, the only question is why he is allowed to have so much wiggle room.
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I think Oda's intent is to make the reader have the same reaction as the Wano citizens, I mean think about it
Both Wano and the reader agree Oden was a fool to dance for 5 years instead of attacking that day.
Both Wano and the reader agree this battle was underwhelming and what was the point of delaying it by 5 year.
And yeah now I think about it, this battle can't be 'the hour of legends' given the cold reactions to it.
Lets see if he can flip this on its head.
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Isn't that supposed to be King?
There's a stabbing, then next panel we see King's silhouette and blood dripping from his sword. Not a big mystery that one.
Com'on guys, the hand holding the katana is too small in comparission to King's hands, and according to his shadow of 20 years ago, he was already a big dude.
so..(Tinfoil hat on), that's what Oda wants you to believe!!
Seriously tho, seems pretty valid to me, that the traitor would be the one stabbing Ashura, he's like the biggest threat among the Samurais just next to Oden.
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@uniaka:
Didn't he rejected her since battle started, when she saved him, like don't join this battle. As her reason to betray, him and shinobu seem to go way back, ever since she was a kid, who knows what he did to her. Like she was kinemon's protegee yet didn't tell him anything for 5 years about the deal oden made with orochi, not even send him a note or anything.
That literally never happened.
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@.access:
I don't think it is the traitor. Oden was defeated, the other retainers were being subdued, why would the traitor do such a risky move as attacking Ashura in the open just to the next minute go back and pretend to be on their side again?
Cause Ashura would be the hardest to take down?
Not trying to go into a power-level scam, but Samurai Belly slashed Jack in the present day, I'd suppose 20 years ago it would be hard to bring him down even for King and Queen–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Does the present traitor have to be the same as the traitor back then?
Yeah, it would make things dramatically better.
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It's already hard enough to explain everything with just one traitor in the present.
eeh no. if its Kanjuro, its perfectly fitting.
.he wasn't exactly a prisioner when he was found.
-He knew where Raizo was.
-He's been the least active in Wano(that we've seen of) and had plenty of time to give the secret port message to the enemy, and send a letter to Orochi.in the past, he wasn't probably too convinced of the idea of opening Wano and switched his loyalty for that reason, and he was pretty pissed at Oden for leaving Wano so selfishly
Also, I just noticed that he didn't get a local Dressrosa reward when even Kin'emon did.
he's busted.
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Cause Ashura would be the hardest to take down?
Not trying to go into a power-level scam, but Samurai Belly slashed Jack in the present day, I'd suppose 20 years ago it would be hard to bring him down even for King and QueenToo weak of a reason for such a risky act. Also it's been stated (not just hinted) the retainers who didn't leaped in time became much stronger in the last 20 years. Ashura, Inuarashi and Nekomamushi are considerably stronger than Kin'emon and his group because of that, not because they were super stronger since the beginning.
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He's making Shinobu look worse and worse in my opinion. She saw and heard? everything that went down between Oden, Orochi, and the Kurozumis but didn't go to Oden or reveal her intention to change sides until the fated battle 5 years later? She could have been a double agent working for Orochi but then reporting to Oden but I guess that would have ruined Oda's story about Oden waiting around 5 years and not telling anyone anything like an idiot. I usually don't give Oda a hard time about stuff but unless he turns things around she seems pointless. There is no point in her being an ally that saw what happened and did nothing in 5 years. There is no point in her being the traitor as they only ever thought of her as an ally during the battle.
The only thing that makes sense for her character at this point is that because Oden said she wasn't an ally and she was released is for her to use her ninja abilities combined with the fact she still works for the enemy to free everyone. If she doesn't she is completely pointless.
it explains why was she the only one who left the Oniwabanshu among a bunch of them. she said so herself, Fukuro fell on Orochi's service and prolly didnt listen to what Shinobu saw. thus, leaving them to fight for Oden.
Also with a Scabbard being a snitch, someone has to fill up that hole for them to remain being 'the 9 shadows' Toki talked about, and there's Shinobu, maybe Izo and even probably Kyoshiro, but seems clear at this point, that it'll be 9 even without the traitor.
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@.access:
Too weak of a reason for such a risky act. Also it's been stated (not just hinted) the retainers who didn't leaped in time became much stronger in the last 20 years. Ashura, Inuarashi and Nekomamushi are considerably stronger than Kin'emon and his group because of that, not because they were super stronger since the beginning.
Ashura ruled a lawless land of badass samurais, he was strong even back then.
Plus it also would be risky to let him slash around, King and Queen were shown overpowering some Scabbards but not Ashura, Kaido had been severly wounded by Oden, that back stab prolly marked the definitive victory of Kaido in the eyes of the traitor. -
He's making Shinobu look worse and worse in my opinion. She saw and heard? everything that went down between Oden, Orochi, and the Kurozumis but didn't go to Oden or reveal her intention to change sides until the fated battle 5 years later? She could have been a double agent working for Orochi but then reporting to Oden but I guess that would have ruined Oda's story about Oden waiting around 5 years and not telling anyone anything like an idiot. I usually don't give Oda a hard time about stuff but unless he turns things around she seems pointless. There is no point in her being an ally that saw what happened and did nothing in 5 years. There is no point in her being the traitor as they only ever thought of her as an ally during the battle.
The only thing that makes sense for her character at this point is that because Oden said she wasn't an ally and she was released is for her to use her ninja abilities combined with the fact she still works for the enemy to free everyone. If she doesn't she is completely pointless.
I think it works fine. She saw what went there and that Oden chose to not fight back, but as soon as she heard he was going to take action against Orochi/Kaido she went to his side. There wasn't any reason for her to do the shift earlier since she knew Oden wasn't going to do anything anyways. And there was a point in she seeing the truth because that's what allowed her to know Oden was in the right, otherwise she would have never joined his side (be it 5 years before or when she actually did it).
What doesn't fit in her case, something I pointed out on the spoiler thread, is that she was originally presented as Kin'emon's protegée/disciple, but now we know it couldn't fit in her timeline at any point (she was originally serving Sukiyaki, then moved to Orochi and only joined Oden's group 3 days before his execution, so there wasn't any point when she could be under Kin'emon's tutelage).
To be fair, a lot of small details in this arc don't hold under scrutiny. Not necessarily creating plotholes, but at least inconsistensies in characterization. Like wasn't Kiku supposed to be unnashamedly on Kin'emon?
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@.access:
Like wasn't Kiku supposed to be unnashamedly on Kin'emon?
Not sure what you mean, Kiku was just excited to see Kinemon again.
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If only the time traverlers knew about Raizo being hidden in Zou, (as implied by ch 820) and since Jack tryed to capture him there, the traitor should be one of the t-travelers.
- Kin or Momo, tho possible, would be shocking… but...
- Kiku is possible but weird given her sister was WB's pirates ally.
- Raizo is possible.
- Kanguro is the most suspicious guy to me. We don't know much about him.
- Beyond the scabbars Jibuemon is also possible, but for the sake of the impact on the audience I guess Oda is making it one the scabbars.
To me Dejiro is playing the counterspy role, and he will give somehow a surprise to Orochi and Kaido.
And as for when the traitor was born, I guess it was during at the end of the last 5 years of watching his lord dancing and humiliating himself. Guess at some moment he couldn't stand it any longer.
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When did Orochi say that he doesn't bow to Kaido? He's 100% Kaido's bitch, the only question is why he is allowed to have so much wiggle room.
Well we both know that, but before this incredibly lengthy flashback, Orochi was (at least in one chapter's conclusion) bragging about how he's NOT Kaido's bitch, which Semimaru and that other member of the Kurozumi family probably helped put in his head that he's such hot shit that he's untouchable. He'll get a rude awakening for sure, but least of all for his hubris. It's just mainly to show how dumb he is in spite of his power and position, he's letting it all go to his head so he can't see reality. That, or he's got some contingency plan like maybe he's found the Uranus weapon and will use it if Kaido turns on him? That's the only thing I can think of if he's not just being beyond stupid and boastful. He might have just been lying to whomever he said it to, to make them think he wasn't afraid of Kaido, since posturing is really all he has. But being surrounded by guys who can potentially report back to Kaido, he'd better have something to back that up, or just be that ridiculously stupid, for him doing that to make 'sense'.
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Honestly the Wano arc is crumbling and somehow becoming less interesting as more details are revealed. Oden was a dick and he was only "good" because he was ridiculously strong and the son of the Shogun so he had the most freedom which is what One Piece is all about. His followers only seemed attracted to his strength but he didn't treat them well, abandoned them, and didn't tell them the truth.
Of course he is probably going to stay behind and fight off everyone by himself while his allies escape which will lead to him being boiled alive and somehow rekindle the feeling that they need to honor his death by stopping Kaido and Orochi.
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There are three points I can recall and I think should be key to find out who the traitor is:
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It is someone who knew beyond any doubt that Raizo made it to Zou.
Jack knew as a matter of fact that Raizo made it there, he didn't have any doubt about it, he wasn't just guessing. Raizo left Wano together with Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke, stranded from them and went MIA as long as anyone was aware. The other three ended up on Dressrosa, the logical conclusion for anyone would be that Raizo was also there but hidden, there is no reason for anyone to think "well, if the entire group went adrift and ended on a random country, this can only mean the missing person made it to their final destination 100% guaranteed".
Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke knew he didn't went to Dressrosa, but they couldn't know Raizo succeeded to Zou. Kiku knew the group went there, but she had no info regarding what happened after that. Even Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke couldn't be sure if Raizo succeeded in making there - they could only hope. Assuming Shinobu was already aware they came back, she would be as ignorant as Kiku regarding the group's fate after they sailed from Wano.
The only ones who knew Raizo was in Zou are the minks and Raizo himself. -
It is someone who only became aware of the new plans of the Alliance and of Hiyori's location after everyone came together to discuss those. Aside from the SH, this means anyone from the Alliance with the exception of Law and Nekomamushi since they are still ignorant about all that.
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It is someone who was already in Wano 20 years ago.
Assuming there isn't a 4th key scene I am forgetting, there are only two characters who would fit all those circumstances: Raizo and Inuarashi.
The problem is, neither of them would make much sense. Why would Raizo give himself away instead of, you know, just not going to Zou? And Inuarashi not only seems beyond any doubt, he was actually the first one to notice there was something fishy going on and wonder about it.Other possibility is that we could be dealing with at least two traitors. Having both a traitor from Wano and someone from Zou would also cover every corner. But I think at this point it is more likely we'll just have to ignore some minor plotholes for the real traitor to fit.
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@.access:
There are three points I can recall and I think should be key to find out who the traitor is:
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It is someone who knew beyond any doubt that Raizo made it to Zou.
Jack knew as a matter of fact that Raizo made it there, he didn't have any doubt about it, he wasn't just guessing. Raizo left Wano together with Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke, stranded from them and went MIA as long as anyone was aware. The other three ended up on Dressrosa, the logical conclusion for anyone would be that Raizo was also there but hidden, there is no reason for anyone to think "well, if the entire group went adrift and ended on a random country, this can only mean the missing person made it to their final destination 100% guaranteed".
Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke knew he didn't went to Dressrosa, but they couldn't know Raizo succeeded to Zou. Kiku knew the group went there, but she had no info regarding what happened after that. Even Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke couldn't be sure if Raizo succeeded in making there - they could only hope. Assuming Shinobu was already aware they came back, she would be as ignorant as Kiku regarding the group's fate after they sailed from Wano.
The only ones who knew Raizo was in Zou are the minks and Raizo himself. -
It is someone who only became aware of the new plans of the Alliance and of Hiyori's location after everyone came together to discuss those. Aside from the SH, this means anyone from the Alliance with the exception of Law and Nekomamushi since they are still ignorant about all that.
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It is someone who was already in Wano 20 years ago.
Assuming there isn't a 4th key scene I am forgetting, there are only two characters who would fit all those circumstances: Raizo and Inuarashi.
The problem is, neither of them would make much sense. Why would Raizo give himself away instead of, you know, just not going to Zou? And Inuarashi not only seems beyond any doubt, he was actually the first one to notice there was something fishy going on and wonder about it.Other possibility is that we could be dealing with at least two traitors. Having both a traitor from Wano and someone from Zou would also cover every corner. But I think at this point it is more likely we'll just have to ignore some minor plotholes for the real traitor to fit.
nah, based on Kin'emon's memories, they made it to Zunesha, but separated from Raizo right in the spot. so it wasn't much about being hopefully, they knew Raizo could climb the elephant and wait for them, which still makes Kanjuro a suspect.
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@.access:
There are three points I can recall and I think should be key to find out who the traitor is:
- It is someone who knew beyond any doubt that Raizo made it to Zou.
Jack knew as a matter of fact that Raizo made it there, he didn't have any doubt about it, he wasn't just guessing. Raizo left Wano together with Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke, stranded from them and went MIA as long as anyone was aware. The other three ended up on Dressrosa, the logical conclusion for anyone would be that Raizo was also there but hidden, there is no reason for anyone to think "well, if the entire group went adrift and ended on a random country, this can only mean the missing person made it to their final destination 100% guaranteed".
Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke knew he didn't went to Dressrosa, but they couldn't know Raizo succeeded to Zou. Kiku knew the group went there, but she had no info regarding what happened after that. Even Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke couldn't be sure if Raizo succeeded in making there - they could only hope. Assuming Shinobu was already aware they came back, she would be as ignorant as Kiku regarding the group's fate after they sailed from Wano.
The only ones who knew Raizo was in Zou are the minks and Raizo himself.
We don't know if Kin & co actually watched Raizo landing on Zunisha or not. All of them were too close at the critical moment:
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Also, I'm assuming the 4 time travelers could have den den mushis to communicate each other. (So that even Kiku could have been told about Raizo being in Zou). Is that wrong?
- It is someone who knew beyond any doubt that Raizo made it to Zou.
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nah, based on Kin'emon's memories, they made it to Zunesha, but separated from Raizo right in the spot. so it wasn't much about being hopefully, they knew Raizo could climb the elephant and wait for them, which still makes Kanjuro a suspect.
We don't know if Kin & co actually watched Raizo landing on Zunisha or not. All of them were to close at the critical moment:
I completely failed to notice Zunesha in that panel.
Well, this changes everything, specially because I just noticed Kin'emon also says they were spotted and chased by the Beast Pirates, so maybe there wasn't anything weird with the BP knowing about it because they might have just seen it as well?
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@.access:
I completely failed to notice Zunesha in that panel.
Well, this changes everything, specially because I just noticed Kin'emon also says they were spotted and chased by the Beast Pirates, so maybe there wasn't anything weird with the BP knowing about it because they might have just seen it as well?
Yeap. No way to sure about what happened there
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@.access:
There are three points I can recall and I think should be key to find out who the traitor is:
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It is someone who knew beyond any doubt that Raizo made it to Zou.
Jack knew as a matter of fact that Raizo made it there, he didn't have any doubt about it, he wasn't just guessing. Raizo left Wano together with Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke, stranded from them and went MIA as long as anyone was aware. The other three ended up on Dressrosa, the logical conclusion for anyone would be that Raizo was also there but hidden, there is no reason for anyone to think "well, if the entire group went adrift and ended on a random country, this can only mean the missing person made it to their final destination 100% guaranteed".
Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke knew he didn't went to Dressrosa, but they couldn't know Raizo succeeded to Zou. Kiku knew the group went there, but she had no info regarding what happened after that. Even Kanjuro, Kin'emon and Momonosuke couldn't be sure if Raizo succeeded in making there - they could only hope. Assuming Shinobu was already aware they came back, she would be as ignorant as Kiku regarding the group's fate after they sailed from Wano.
The only ones who knew Raizo was in Zou are the minks and Raizo himself. -
It is someone who only became aware of the new plans of the Alliance and of Hiyori's location after everyone came together to discuss those. Aside from the SH, this means anyone from the Alliance with the exception of Law and Nekomamushi since they are still ignorant about all that.
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It is someone who was already in Wano 20 years ago.
Assuming there isn't a 4th key scene I am forgetting, there are only two characters who would fit all those circumstances: Raizo and Inuarashi.
The problem is, neither of them would make much sense. Why would Raizo give himself away instead of, you know, just not going to Zou? And Inuarashi not only seems beyond any doubt, he was actually the first one to notice there was something fishy going on and wonder about it.Other possibility is that we could be dealing with at least two traitors. Having both a traitor from Wano and someone from Zou would also cover every corner. But I think at this point it is more likely we'll just have to ignore some minor plotholes for the real traitor to fit.
1. Kanjiro was there 20 years ago
2. Kanjiro is never seen fighting much or at all
3. Multiple times his fighting is portrayed wacky partially harmful to his allies. Like the thing with the NET in Dressrosa, where Usopp mentions people can just climb it and so on…
4. He is present in all the pannels where secret plans are revealed, so he is shown definitely knowing about them
5. He is making "strange" remarks when Law or Shinobu are speaking stuff
6. He "turned" himself in so that Kinemon and Momo could escape....in Dressrosa and acted strange when they first met again (salad comments and what not) He is perfectly unharmed as well...
7. He has a perfect devil fruit for informant which enables him to create birds or whatever to transfer info
8. And so on...Goofy user of the powers, who soon will reveal can draw extremely well and is a lot more dangerous than it looks like, not the first time it went exactly that path in shounen Keyser Soze style (limping first...walking normally in the end)
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Legend is something people tell to other people not witnessing it so it couldn't be the hour of legend, because no people are there.
Oda is famous for teasing his fans. -
Recently, we've had Doffy and and Law flashbacks for Dressrosa, the Curly Brow Pirates and Jack attack flashbacks for Zou, and Sanji and BM flashbacks for WCI arc. Now that Oden's flashback is close to ending, I can see Kaido's flashback later on that expounds on how he got to Wano, partnered with Orochi, what he owes to Linlin and possibly more on his days in the Rocks crew
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Im curious at how Inu and Neko escaped the second time they got caught. With Shinobu around, she probably help them and that's another reason why they trust her so much.
Ashura and Denjiro stood at some spot to fight with Kaido, so that also explains why weren't they present with Toki in the castle.
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Legend is something people tell to other people not witnessing it so it couldn't be the hour of legend, because no people are there.
Oda is famous for teasing his fans.Big tease that one. One would think Oden wounding Kaido would be an epic display, but it's just a couple of uninspiring panels.
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1. Kanjiro was there 20 years ago
2. Kanjiro is never seen fighting much or at all
3. Multiple times his fighting is portrayed wacky partially harmful to his allies. Like the thing with the NET in Dressrosa, where Usopp mentions people can just climb it and so on…
4. He is present in all the pannels where secret plans are revealed, so he is shown definitely knowing about them
5. He is making "strange" remarks when Law or Shinobu are speaking stuff
6. He "turned" himself in so that Kinemon and Momo could escape....in Dressrosa and acted strange when they first met again (salad comments and what not) He is perfectly unharmed as well...
7. He has a perfect devil fruit for informant which enables him to create birds or whatever to transfer info
8. And so on...Goofy user of the powers, who soon will reveal can draw extremely well and is a lot more dangerous than it looks like, not the first time it went exactly that path in shounen Keyser Soze style (limping first...walking normally in the end)
And he created a dragon to climb Zou, throwing in Kinemon's face their defeat and Momo's shame.
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There must be an explanation for why she choose 20 years. I mean Wano could've been a total wasteland in 20 if Kaido moved faster then he did. She somehow had to know the SH will arrive there together with Inu and Neko and she must've known that the others (Kawamatsu, Tengu, etc) didn't die. Otherwise, she could've sent them back when Ace returned to Wano to bring Whitebeard there and KO Kaido and Orochi with no sweat.
20 Years is a Generation, Rodger did explicitly state that he wished for his Son to be the next Pirate King. I presume 20 years was her trying to plop Kinemon and others into a general time where Ace would be hitting his stride as A Pirate.
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20 Years is a Generation, Rodger did explicitly state that he wished for his Son to be the next Pirate King. I presume 20 years was her trying to plop Kinemon and others into a general time where Ace would be hitting his stride as A Pirate.
That seems too random for me. I await an explanation for how Toki's powers work because I bet there is more to it then just travel in the future for X time. Either she can get glimpses of a person's future/fate or she can see bits of the general future. She had to also saw her meeting with Oden, otherwise it is one in a million chances that she met the first person to leave Wano in years on a deserted island randomly.
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At this point it just feels like we're rushing as fast as possible towards something yet unseen but that Oda cares about much, much more than anything Wa has left to tell. Oden was a complete joke of a charachter, especially if you consider how much weight was put on his role in the overarching plot, to the point he's basically the cornerstone of the whole story. But then you meet him and you discover he's just that, a plot device.
Money's on Kanjuro the traitor by the way. Raizo is the second choice but making the ninja a spy is somehow lame if you are going for the big shock. Also, the hag turning into Momo should mean she touched his face at some point, maybe it was just her being a spy. But that would be super lame.
Also, on a side note, it was made such a big deal of Oden's determination to open Wa's borders and Orochi's propaganda going against that, but when could he actually establish this policy of his and make it a state affair? To the people of Wa he was first a disowned heir, then a minor lord, then a runaway pirate for many years, then a clown, finally a stew. Till now it looks like it was mostly Orochi being concerned with that.
