The Orochi and Hody Jones of this story are better than Linlin, Kata and Croc. Just full on bad guys. Petty, spiteful and unwavering in their iniquity
Crocodile was great.
The Orochi and Hody Jones of this story are better than Linlin, Kata and Croc. Just full on bad guys. Petty, spiteful and unwavering in their iniquity
Crocodile was great.
Crocodile was great.
I still feel like I don't know Croc and it was on purpose. He had a country go into a civil war, then started to help save Luffy under the guise of not letting the WG get their way
It's all preference. I like irredeemable, no looking back, "i'm a product of my environment" antagonist. Croc was just evil until brought back and given some interesting task to take on in the narrative.
I still feel like I don't know Croc and it was on purpose.
Kill the king, get support from the people to become the new one get the ultimate weapon to become one of the great power of the world.
He had a country go into a civil war, then started to help save Luffy under the guise of not letting the WG get their way
I don't care much for the after Alabasta but villain wise he was great.
It's all preference. I like irredeemable, no looking back, "i'm a product of my environment" antagonist. Croc was just evil until brought back and given some interesting task to take on in the narrative.
Orochi is pretty good villain but there's those two emperors running around that I also have to care about as villain and I like to have a centralised villain.
Kill the king, get support from the people to become the new one get the ultimate weapon to become one of the great power of the world.
I don't care much for the after Alabasta but villain wise he was great.
Orochi is pretty good villain but there's those two emperors running around that I also have to care about as villain and I like to have a centralised villain.
Yeah, it does divide the focus a lot.
I hope Big Mom or Smoothie slices off Kid's other arm. I think they still have a score to settle due to him sinking some of her ships?
It would be a fitting end for his New World journey after this
I wanna bet kidd will help bb take down shanks. kidd will cut shanka arm and leave him armless in front of BB.
@uniaka:
I wanna bet kidd will help bb take down shanks. kidd will cut shanka arm and leave him armless in front of BB.
Subscribed to the theory.
5400+5640=11040
Pretty uneven. Is Oda going for 15000 or does the number not have to be even? Is there 3960 somewhere?
Since someone mentioned how 5600 would be a gomu pun of some sort I think they are only getting 200 people reinforcement from Neko to do the pun.
@Johnny:
Then again, seeing on what Orochi has done, maybe there was a good reason to want them gone.
Here it is, the very bad concept that lies behind the "every evil guy's a kurozumi, every kurozumi's a bad guy" plot point. If we don't see a single redeeming quality for any of them, next step of course it's gonna be "well, it's not pleasant but if your family name makes you automatically evil, then i guess a good ol' genocide is in order, that always works".
Especially when the counterpart is apparently a lineage of Jusus Christs (correct me if iì'm wrong, it's not even the Kozukis that carried aout the kurozumi pogrom, but the general population). That way even redeeming the kuros at the last moment, by showing there are also several virtuous individuals, won't do much, since at best they'll be seen as te few good apples in a basket of rotten ones and the notion that your lineage or race can actually make you evil wil stick.
Which is a really dangerous thought irl.
How Oda will manage socially the Kurozumi family is almost irrelevant and the need to reedem them more so.
First, we have been introduced to 4 of its members, two of them are supposedly dead by now, and didn't have any glimpse of good light, instead, they were the main cogs in every mechanism used for evil purposes.
They even guided Orochi through his evil deeds that made him the bad evil scumbag who would rather see people die than accept a fair "loss" like at Oden' execution.
The other two are Orochi, of course, and now Kanjuro, which the sole fact of him being a Kurozumi, is alone the most believable excuse for all the great long lasting parade, even knowing how horrible were the effects of Orochi as Shogun on Wano and its people.
There should be no other Kurozumi, not from these two, as otherwise it should be a known fact, as there should be no reason to hide other Kurozumi, now the "good" guys in the eyes of a lot of citizens, while the bad guys are the Kozuki and its affiliates.
So, the only ones are Orochi and Kanjuro, and we are not in the same situation like the Donquixote family, where for a large part of the story was a very bad name, in terms of human beings.
This was up until we met Corazon, his father and the redeemed Mjosgard, thus putting all the shame on a single member of the family on Mingo itself, despite its ancestors being slave masters and not a good oriented ancient family.
Do we really need to have those two redeemed at the and of the arc?
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Here it is, the very bad concept that lies behind the "every evil guy's a kurozumi, every kurozumi's a bad guy" plot point. If we don't see a single redeeming quality for any of them, next step of course it's gonna be "well, it's not pleasant but if your family name makes you automatically evil, then i guess a good ol' genocide is in order, that always works".
Especially when the counterpart is apparently a lineage of Jusus Christs (correct me if iì'm wrong, it's not even the Kozukis that carried aout the kurozumi pogrom, but the general population). That way even redeeming the kuros at the last moment, by showing there are also several virtuous individuals, won't do much, since at best they'll be seen as te few good apples in a basket of rotten ones and the notion that your lineage or race can actually make you evil wil stick.Which is a really dangerous thought irl.
It is interesting to note that in ages gone by, in China and Japan, if someone tried what Grandpappy Kurozumi did, their entire clan would be indeed be wiped out to the last. So, there is historical precedence, and, well….honestly, treachery seems to run in the Kurozumi bloodline. It's a bad message to send, but literally, they seem to be the black sheeps of Wano for a reason.
that's a sweet comment from Oda. Now we're finally at the end of the flashbacks, Rayleigh's tears at Sabaody when Luffy said I'm going to be pirate king is all the meaninful. He's waited 20 years for it and he saw Oden, Roger…etc his own crews beginning in all of that.
I enjoyed the chapter, found the last one incredible as I commented, this one was entertaining enough.
To those commenting they didn't feel the SH reuniting was enough of a "moment", that's because we haven't gotten to the moment. I'll consider the moment to have happened when we get the double spread of them all posed up. It may only happen when Jinbe's back.
Amidst all this coronavirus insanity, it's nice to have something to look forward to.
Oh! I should mention I'm quite excited we're getting naval battles. And that Luffy is wearing a coat is something I've been waiting for a very long time.
i'm wondering how the kaido/big mom alliance ends up going south. them fighting over who gets to kill luffy seems too easy a guess. they are gonna have to be separated at some point and i hope its exciting. i'm hoping the marines send green bull and the new pacifistas.
i'm wondering how the kaido/big mom alliance ends up going south. them fighting over who gets to kill luffy seems too easy a guess. they are gonna have to be separated at some point and i hope its exciting. i'm hoping the marines send green bull and the new pacifistas.
I'm kinda hoping it doesn't go south. That's when they're at maximum threat level is if they stay together.
Then, though, the issue becomes "how do you surpass the tension of an arc where the crew defeats 2 Yonkou?" The answer to that is quite difficult to come up with. So, factoring in all of that, I think that it pretty much has to go south. The thing is, Big Mom and Kaido technically already fought this arc. So would Oda have them do that again? It's all rather complicated to think about.
And yes I'm very much hoping for Ryokugyu to show up so we can get an admiral defeat out of the way before a Yonkou defeat.
Green buster call!
And yes I'm very much hoping for Ryokugyu to show up so we can get an admiral defeat out of the way before a Yonkou defeat.
I think it's a mistake to think an admiral should be defeated this arc. Kaido is the main villain. Having Green Bull get defeated in Wano would take away some of the impact of the emperor's defeat.
I think it's a mistake to think an admiral should be defeated this arc. Kaido is the main villain. Having Green Bull get defeated in Wano would take away some of the impact of the emperor's defeat.
I personally think this is one of the only times to do it. If one gets defeated after Wano, it's going to be very hard for me to feel any kind of worry for Luffy if he's the one facing the admiral, unless it's Akainu. I'm a firm believer in Yonkou > Admiral though, since 2 Yonkou teaming up is deemed a world emergency, while 3 admirals teaming up at Marineford was a big deal but not world-ending.
I believe Luffy needs to defeat 1 for sure, given his speech in 796ish, but I'll of course feel tension if Sanji or Zoro fight one later.
Kaworu, I feel like defeated Admirals will come closer to the end of the series. Don’t have any particular reasons to back it up but an outright defeat this arc seems a bit early.
I imagine we’ll get another stale mate or two before the world wide clash when they must go down. But the again I really don’t know. Will the Straw Hats mirror White Beard and his group? It seems almost certain Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe will handle the Admirals while Luffy tangos with the fleet admiral. Still some folks made some compelling arguments about Sabo defeating Akainu and I’m not sure where that places everyone else.
Admirals teaming up is probably not news worthy since they are already on the same team with the same resources shared. 2 Emperors command completely different armies that are spread out across multiple nations.
If I had to pull some bull ship numbers then I’d probably say Admirals are a 96 when Emperors are a 97. But what ever they are they all seem more than capable of a prolonged battle that could go either way.
I personally think this is the only time to do it. If one gets defeated after Wano, it's going to be very hard for me to feel any kind of worry for Luffy if he's the one facing the admiral, unless it's Akainu. I'm a firm believer in Yonkou > Admiral though, since 2 Yonkou teaming up is deemed a world emergency, while 3 admirals teaming up at Marineford was a big deal but not world-ending.
I believe Luffy needs to defeat 1 for sure, given his speech in 796ish, but I'll of course feel tension if Sanji or Zoro fight one later.
But Luffy won't be defeating Kaido without help and I doubt Luffy will defeat any of the current admirals except maybe Borsalino. Issho is a good guy and while Green bull may not be, their is reason to believe that like Issho, he won't really be an antagonist. Sakazuki is the fleet admiral so that is a different story.
The only current admiral I can see Luffy defeating after Wano is Borsalino, but even that he probably won't do alone. Zoro or Sanji can help sure but more importantly, some of the "worst generation" captains need to get him back for what he did to them on Sabaody.
Kaworu, I feel like defeated Admirals will come closer to the end of the series. Don’t have any particular reasons to back it up but an outright defeat this arc seems a bit early.
I imagine we’ll get another stale mate or two before the world wide clash when they must go down. But the again I really don’t know. Will the Straw Hats mirror White Beard and his group? It seems almost certain Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe will handle the Admirals while Luffy tangos with the fleet admiral. Still some folks made some compelling arguments about Sabo defeating Akainu and I’m not sure where that places everyone else.
Admirals teaming up is probably not news worthy since they are already on the same team with the same resources shared. 2 Emperors command completely different armies that are spread out across multiple nations.
If I had to pull some bull ship numbers then I’d probably say Admirals are a 96 when Emperors are a 97. But what ever they are they all seem more than capable of a prolonged battle that could go either way.
I do also buy this notion as well, but for me, I'd prefer 1 admiral gets defeated in Wano. But then there is that spread in Marineford which would get a lovely parallel if all 3 (+1) are faced at once with the Monster Quad taking them all out at once. But, well, I also think Fujitora's gonna defect. So God knows, lol.
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I did used to think Sabo could fight Akainu along with Luffy. But since Lucci got re-introduced with CP-0, I now think Sabo will be tied up with him, freeing Luffy up for Akainu.
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But Luffy won't be defeating Kaido without help and I doubt Luffy will defeat any of the current admirals except maybe Borsalino. Issho is a good guy and while Green bull may not be, their is reason to believe that like Issho, he won't really be an antagonist. Sakazuki is the fleet admiral so that is a different story.
The only current admiral I can see Luffy defeating after Wano is Borsalino, but even that he probably won't do alone. Zoro or Sanji can help sure but more importantly, some of the "worst generation" captains need to get him back for what he did to them on Sabaody.
Funnily enough, I consider Borsalino just behind Akainu in strength. I'm just going with my gut of Ryokugyu being an antagonist, not really any way to say at this point.
I dunno, I think we just have a big dividing line here because I've always been under the impression the Marines and the Shichibukai were meant to counter-balance the Yonkou.
Funnily enough, I consider Borsalino just behind Akainu in strength. I'm just going with my gut of Ryokugyu being an antagonist, not really any way to say at this point.
I dunno, I think we just have a big dividing line here because I've always been under the impression the Marines and the Shichibukai were meant to counter-balance the Yonkou.
Oda hinted in an "sbs" that both Issho and Green Bull are not really meant to be antagonists.
Well the warlords have been disbanded so now it's just the marines and whatever else they got.
i'm wondering how the kaido/big mom alliance ends up going south. them fighting over who gets to kill luffy seems too easy a guess. they are gonna have to be separated at some point and i hope its exciting. i'm hoping the marines send green bull and the new pacifistas.
Remember Big Mom has her own dreams to create her dream nation. She will totally betray Kaido.
Where's Neko btw? Can't remember the last time I've seen him
Maybe Kaido will betray big mom while she is distracted fighting and kill her thinking he can handle alone
Where's Neko btw? Can't remember the last time I've seen him
You're onto something here. Nekomamushi isn't seen on the small boat with the others. Maybe he found out who was the traitor and he's currently waiting at shore or something
Neko hadn't returned to Wano yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up next chapter. I figure we're getting a Nine scabbards spread sooner rather than later.