Wish I knew. Dope voice actress.
Edit: The rumor of Vision getting a series based on the West Coast Avengers "Vision Quest" storyline is getting a little traction.
Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs
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Yahya Abdul-Mateen II Tapped To Lead Marvel Series For Disney+
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If it’s not Nathan Fillion as Wonder Man then I’m not interested
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Fitting that Gunn is almost out the door and so is his choice for Simon.
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It's got 96 reviews and it's at 93%. Whoo!
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/black_panther_wakanda_forever -
@Satsuki said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
It's got 96 reviews and it's at 93%. Whoo!
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/black_panther_wakanda_foreverWell thank fucking gosh, this movie and crew deserve it after the shit they've have to endure.
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Down to 88%, but the general consensus seems to be "not as good as the first, but still heart-wrenching and epic".
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I thought Letitia Wright was the only one that caught all the heat?
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[And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] -
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@Nobodyman said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
I still don't understand why he's the only one of his kind with winged feet and no blue skin.
Atlanteans were always blue in the comics going back to 1939, long before the Fantastic Four even launched. There's been a whole lot of different reasons and explanation and retcons over the decades but basically... they're aliens and Namor's weird because he is hybrid or a mutant, depending on the decade.
The behind the scenes reason is the comic Namor originally appeared in was supposed to be black and white, so shading had weird effects that weren't intended for color. But then it was set for color which led to some muddy coloring effects.
Plus, the comic coloring process was... primitive.. There were underwater scenes where Namor was colored blue or green... to show he was underwater. But being comic books in 1939, it just looked like he was green. But we saw his mother and she was definitely Caucasian colored.
Later printings of that story would add more pages to the ending to show Namor above the water and clearly Caucasian looking and that Namor was intended to be such... and different repritns would color him in different ways... but thats a memo that didn't necessarily get passed around and open to other interpretations and this was obviously decades before it would become the more unified Marvel Universe the Fantastic Four launched and anything got standardized.
Add to that the fact that the standard template for ANY character in ANY comic or movie or tv show until more recently was just "Caucasian" by default, well...
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@Shiebs said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
The same way the comics did it.
...and I am having serious trouble getting this to format in two sepeate spoiler tags for some reason.
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Just saw Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. Very somber and emotional film that felt particularly mature for your average superhero movie. I know Letitia Wright has gotten a lot of crap online lately for her personal views, and maybe deservedly though, but she really acted her ass off in this movie. She had a couple of very moving scenes.
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Still haven't seen the movie, just popping out to quizz if anyone is kinda amazed that the movie made absolutely no splash in my social network. In past times any Marvel film would create a pressure to go watch it because people would be talking about it non-stop. Now, I barely have registred people on the subject. I know some guys are talking about it because it was trending in the US for a bit, but I didn't had to make any effort to avoid spoilers. They simply did not appear. It was the opposite when Multiverse of Madness was up in the theatres for instance.
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Well, it's already made $180 million, so even if they're not talking about it, they're going.
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I intend to see it! I still have a place for Marvel movies in my heart, I was just surprised that the social phenomena of Marvel movies seem to be shrieking (at least from my tiny microbubble dancing in the web)
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@Robby said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Do you think that’s what they’ll do?
Or will they just do a different universe? I mean there is a multiverse, right?
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@Shiebs said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Do you think that’s what they’ll do?
Or will they just do a different universe? I mean there is a multiverse, right?
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Question, I’m asking this here because Joss did the first two avengers and I don’t know where else to ask,
Do you guys wish there had been more than one season to Firefly? I always wondered where the story would have gone, and what crazy stuff could have happened had it been given proper time to grow, would there be more psychics like River or other creations from the alliance, what the pastors past was etc
But I told my friends this and they said they didn’t want any more Firefly because the thing that made it fantastic and iconic is the limited run it had that was basically perfect and that more episodes or seasons would have ruined it’s cult status
What do you guys think?
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@puffing-cinema said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Still haven't seen the movie, just popping out to quizz if anyone is kinda amazed that the movie made absolutely no splash in my social network.
I been noticing this for quite some time now.
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@Shiebs said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Question, I’m asking this here because Joss did the first two avengers and I don’t know where else to ask,
Do you guys wish there had been more than one season to Firefly?
Not really.
"It was cancelled early" gives it a mythos, "all that potential that could have been" which lets people elevate it. The movie basically showed us what the plot threads would have gone and there was some real nonsense in there.Given how iffy Buffy and Angel got in their later seasons, how bad Dollhouse was entirely? Nah, let it keep its near perfect run of episodes remain untainted by whatever stupid thing came next, lightning in the bottle full of potential. Mal was charming and charismatic because the show stopped when it did.
Another two or three seasons of Mal constantly calling Inara a whore would have been insufferable. It was not charming or cute or playful or a sign that he was secretly in love, it was just gross. And you just know eventually there would have been a redemption arc for an unredeemable villain or a rape plotline or the inevitable fridging of some love interest or another... (Yeah Spike was charismatic in Buffy and the fans loved him. He didn't warrant the icky love-sick puppy abuser redemption arc that he got)
Whedon is a super talented writer, not going to deny that. Buffy was revolutionary and Avengers 1 was and is still amazing, and 2 was okay given the studio constraints. But now that we know more about the kind of man he was behind the scenes, and we know where to look for his nastier side, its really hard to want more of anything he did.
Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5 and Farscape are all more compelling sci-fi space shows with way less gross showrunners. And I didn't even like Battlestar.
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@Robby said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5 and Farscape are all more compelling sci-fi space shows with way less gross showrunners. And I didn't even like Battlestar.
Well shit.
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Whedon is super misogynistic, transphobic and queerphobic in general (and not in a horny way), so the less of his work out there the better. Having your main character uncritically refer to a woman as a whore? Yikes, I'm glad I didn't watch beyond a few minutes of the first episode twelve years ago.
She/Her
Don't like the gender you were assigned at birth? Change it!
Want to be a girl? Click here!
What's gender dysphoria, you ask? Click here to find out!
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@Time-Control-Magician said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
@Robby said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5 and Farscape are all more compelling sci-fi space shows with way less gross showrunners. And I didn't even like Battlestar.
Well shit.
To clarify on Battlestar, I think it had an incredibly strong first season and a decent second, but I generally liked and sympathized with the villains more than the heroes, and there were a looooot of plot twists later on that made no sense that I REALLY disagreed with.
I can deal with stories going directions other than what I want, but it had dozens and dozens of story choices in the second half where it was clear they were making it up as they went that just made it impossible for me to ever want to revisit.
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@JulieYBM said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Whedon is super misogynistic, transphobic and queerphobic in general (and not in a horny way), so the less of his work out there the better. Having your main character uncritically refer to a woman as a whore? Yikes, I'm glad I didn't watch beyond a few minutes of the first episode twelve years ago.
The character in question was in fact a courtesan as her job trade. But the main "likeable" character constantly shaming her for it because he was secretly in love and jealous was super super icky and uncomfortable. Not even as a one off argument where he went too far and regretted it after, he did it constantly for the entire series.
it's one thing if the story is aware their lead is a terrible awful person but the show really, really didn't. I think the show thought he was completely in the right. Lots of Whedon sexism seeping through.
It's why I never understood why people were so surprised when word got out about what kind of person Whedon was like two years ago. It was super obvious he had a problem with women, it's all over the place in his writing on all his shows. Even the super "girl power" Buffy had looooots of issues.
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Kinda makes me ashamed I love Avengers so much.
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@Robby said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
@Time-Control-Magician said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
@Robby said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5 and Farscape are all more compelling sci-fi space shows with way less gross showrunners. And I didn't even like Battlestar.
Well shit.
To clarify on Battlestar, I think it had an incredibly strong first season and a decent second, but I generally liked and sympathized with the villains more than the heroes, and there were a looooot of plot twists later on that made no sense that I REALLY disagreed with.
I can deal with stories going directions other than what I want, but it had dozens and dozens of story choices in the second half where it was clear they were making it up as they went that just made it impossible for me to ever want to revisit.
I always knew the new BSG series was divisive for reasons but never really did a deep dive to research why.
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@Robby said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
@JulieYBM said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Whedon is super misogynistic, transphobic and queerphobic in general (and not in a horny way), so the less of his work out there the better. Having your main character uncritically refer to a woman as a whore? Yikes, I'm glad I didn't watch beyond a few minutes of the first episode twelve years ago.
The character in question was in fact a courtesan as her job trade. But the main "likeable" character constantly shaming her for it because he was secretly in love and jealous was super super icky and uncomfortable. Not even as a one off argument where he went too far and regretted it after, he did it constantly for the entire series.
it's one thing if the story is aware their lead is a terrible awful person but the show really, really didn't. I think the show thought he was completely in the right. Lots of Whedon sexism seeping through.
It's why I never understood why people were so surprised when word got out about what kind of person Whedon was like two years ago. It was super obvious he had a problem with women, it's all over the place in his writing on all his shows. Even the super "girl power" Buffy had looooots of issues.
Yeah, exactly what I was saying.
Whedon's pretty fucked up for various reasons and it seeps into his work a ton. I'm glad I've not really experienced most of his work.
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Whedon....man, I have so many thoughts on him as a writer and as a person, partially very conflicting ones. Buffy was one of the first shows I really loved, the one that really got me into tv shows in the first place. It's a show that is at times absolutely brilliant and at times an absolute mess...just like Whedon I guess lol.
It's easy to simply dismiss all of his work in retrospect now that the darker side of his personality has been shed light on - though as Robby has pointed out, it was there all along if you paid close attention. But the fact is, a lot of his writing is really, really good. I know very few shows that can be as emotionally powerful and gutsplittingly hilarious as Buffy, Angel or Firefly. And Whedon is the one who came up with these ideas and concepts, these iconic characters, he is the one who wrote some of the best episodes of all three shows. And, of course, at the same time, he is responsible for some of the worst parts, as well - what he did to Cordy's character in Angel S4 just because Charisma Carpenter got pregnant was unforgivable.
I personally don't think anybody should feel bad for enjoying his work, though. It's mostly pretty damn good, him being an abusive ass doesn't change that. Just like Hitchcock's films are still really good despite his icky behavior towards some of the actresses, or The Shining being one iconic, awesome film despite the fact that Kubrick completely abused poor Shelley Duval during filming.
I guess we all want to believe that the people who create stuff we love must (or should) be really good, moral people, but the truth is that one can absolutely be a shitty person and still produce great art. Plenty of examples in history of great minds and artists being obsessive and controlling, abusive to their families, cheating on their wives etc. etc.
Whedon and his work are ripe for psychoanalysis though. It's really fascinating, you have this guy who clearly sees himself as a feminist while having deepseated problems with women, who at times absolutely succeeds in his goal of creating poignant feminist, progressive shows and at other times completely fails due to his own inner demons and problems.
I know I'm completely rambling and incohesive at this point
As I said, very conflicted feelings about the whole thing. -
@Time-Control-Magician said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
I always knew the new BSG series was divisive for reasons but never really did a deep dive to research why.
If you have no interest at all, I'll go ahead and just give you the biggies. Not going to be coy or subtle about it, just literally the actual big spoilers. But if you DO have any intent of ever watching it, don't read this, I'm going to be VERY clear about how bad it got.
The series still had great cinematography and strong acting and some fantastic moments along the way, and for the first two seasons it was basically everything Star Trek Voyager wanted to be (it had one of the same showrunners so that makes sense) but its just very, very clear they had no plan after the first season and it fell apart HARD.
Battlestar Galactica is a show that should have been cancelled after season 2 and left us going "ah man, if only they'd been able to make more, THIS is a masterpiece that truly deserved more episodes to tell their story. They could at least give them a movie to wrap it up or something!" Instead it got more episodes and just got really bad.
Farscape worked out pretty well though juggling some actors in the final seasons meant the final roster had a lot of characters I didn't like but it overall ended well.
Babylon 5 is still pretty much THE gold standard for sci-fi shows, if you can get past the low budget. The first season is a little weak because it has a bunch of writers that don't understand the assignment, but it's just the best.
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If I watched back in the day I don’t know whether I’d be angry or confused with such jank writing.
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@Shiebs said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Question, I’m asking this here because Joss did the first two avengers and I don’t know where else to ask,
Do you guys wish there had been more than one season to Firefly? I always wondered where the story would have gone, and what crazy stuff could have happened had it been given proper time to grow, would there be more psychics like River or other creations from the alliance, what the pastors past was etc
But I told my friends this and they said they didn’t want any more Firefly because the thing that made it fantastic and iconic is the limited run it had that was basically perfect and that more episodes or seasons would have ruined it’s cult status
What do you guys think?
I think Firefly benefit from never finishing. The characters were nice but I don't think the background plot was ever gonna be that good or well plot out. But because you only get the vague premise it creates that illusion that a classic was cut down.
I think the show strength was fun interactions. I liked most of the one off enemies and Inara, Mal and the vice captain were the characters I enjoyed most. With the rest being fine. River was nice enough although I was with Jace on selling out this unstable passenger we barely know and go back to living our regular lives. As far as the mysogyn go I didn't mind about Mal looking down as I just saw it as his personal value system. Inara didn't seem to be ashamed of her work and the rest of the crew seem to respect it. My problem were that I never got why Mal liked River enough to risk his crew or him not killing the crewmate who betrayed him considering that character history. And since I liked him being established as more cold blooded than a typical main character those where big gripes with me.
But I just never was impressed with Firefly story which I find to mostly be throwing vague terms around that didn't amount to much and dollhouse didn't give me confidence the story was gonna be good with long format. And fun interactions can only carry you so long. I did like Serenity tho.
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Saw the Panther movie. I liked the first movie far more, in terms of variety of things going on, colors, music, showing me things I hadn't seen before... but they did good considering the death of the lead character. The whole thing really was a tribute to him top to bottom and was entirely built from scratch around that tragedy.
Make sure you stay for the mid-credits, I think this is the first time where the bonus scene is absolutely essential to the film and probably should have been at the actual end instead of having a four minute gap. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the ending but the studio insisted there be SOMETHING for the crdedits, so they moved the final scene, but didn't want to do anything cheeky or teaser-ey, that NEEDED to be the last moment.
There is no post-credits, you can leave after the mid credits.
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@Time-Control-Magician said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
If I watched back in the day I don’t know whether I’d be angry or confused with such jank writing.
Re:BSG - I have some thoughts on this topic as I just finished the show a couple of weeks ago, so it is very fresh on my mind. Maybe to give a different take than Robby's very negative one, I don't think the final two seasons are nearly as bad as he made them out to be. In fact, I personally found the last season to be almost as good as the first one. The first season is definitely the best, it has a smaller episode count and is very tightly written. The episode count was then increased from Season 2 onwards, and both S2 and particularly S3 both suffer from it. They both start of really strongly and end pretty well, but the middle sees a real slump in quality as they kind of stall the plot. This show was never very good at standalone episodes and you get some really weak ones here.
While S4 also has 20 episodes, it never really lets go off the plot and also really sells that "it's the final season, anything could happen" feeling, which makes it pretty intense at parts. I found the series finale itself rather lackluster though, except for some nice character moments. Some more detailed responses to Robby's points behind the spoiler:
So yeah, I'm personally happy the show was not canceled prematurely as both the third and fourth season, while not perfect, contained some phenomenal moments .
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I think that the mid-credits scene works betters the way it is because the song is a nice emotional connective tissue/break from the preceeding scene(s), so leading it right into that final scene works far better.
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@Riddler said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
No offense, Robby, but you do leave out some key details
I watched the show once,
15 years ago.If you say that stuff was legit foreshadowed, fine, I don't remember it well enough to argue. Doesn't mean it was foreshadowed well or change the fact it felt hella out of nowhere to me and annoyed me enough that I just gave my copy of the series away after I was done with it because I knew I was never going to watch it again.
They also had to cheat and change the rules to make those twists work.
Galactica's finale is widely considered one of the worst of all time, up there with How I Met Your Mother and Little House on the Prairie and Roseanne. If it worked for you, thats great but its pretty widely disliked.
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Oh I wouldn't say it worked for me exactly. The final season did in general, but as I said, the finale itself felt lackluster and riddled with plot holes, I agree with that sentiment. That said, overall fan opinion is a tricky thing. I think the general opinion on Lost, for example, is that it became crap after Season 3 and the finale sucked ass, and I couldn't disagree more with that.
But I guess this is all really really off topic so we should probably stop discussing all these shows that have nothing to do with Marvel.
Sooo....what is everybody's opinions on Phase 4 now that it's basically over? Some people seem to have really hated it...I personally enjoyed most of the movies, while the tv show were kind of hit and miss for me. -
Phase 4 has all of the usual Marvel/Hollywood problems of shitty cinematography, fights and special effects compounded by the fact that a ton of content was produced in the middle of of a fucking pandemic. Basically, the only thing to ever really like about these films is the actors and maybe some of the character stuff so it's the only thing to really judge any quality on. That being said, I liked Eternals, No Way Home, Wakanda Forever and Multiverse of Magic, even if they all have their flaws. Wakanda Forever is definitely the best film of the lot but even then the Talokans and Namor are really underdeveloped.
I liked the TV series, save for The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and What If..., which I did not watch. The former has an exceedingly stupidly written antagonist that makes zero sense because no leftist revolutionary would be so stupid as to so inefficiently use their superpowers as Karli Morgenthau and the Flag Smashers were.
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Really enjoyed: 'Shang Chi' and 'No Way Home' // 'Wandavision' and 'She-Hulk'
Expected a lot more: 'Multiverse of Madness'
Got the job done: 'Falcon and the Winter Soldier'
Intersting bits or ideas here and there, but overall weak releases: 'Eternals' and 'Black Widow' // 'Loki', 'Ms Marvel', 'Moon Knight' and 'Werewolf by Night'
Really disliked: 'Thor Love and Thunder' // 'Hawkeye' (couldn't go through episode 2) and 'What If?' (only watched s01)Yet to see: Wakanda 4ever
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Oh, I forgot to mention, I liked Katy and Xu Xialing from Shang-Chi. Simu Liu is a carisma blackhole but I thought everyone else around him really stole the show and I liked the underground metahuman tournament. That's definitely something I'd like to see more of, although I kind of doubt we'll actually get a really nice tournament drama like you'd get in a shounen comic.
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Xu Xialing and Wenwu carried 10 Rings for me. I really disliked Shang. He was bland. Katy tried, but she wasn't humorous. I came in thinking Shang would be some great character too smh.
Eternals suffers from having too many characters and only 3 were likeable. Thena and Gilgamesh had the only engaging relationship to me. I did not care for the melodrama of Sersi and Ikarus.
NWH wasn't horrible, but I was disappointed. I have always been a super fan of Strange's arc in the MCU. McKenna & Sommers misrepresented him and exploited his arrogance. They made a poor trilogy overall. Peter is brilliant when they want him to be, then easily handing over E.D.I.T.H. to a Mysterio he's barely known. Just like how May is barely a character in the first two films, then conveniently has a job in NWH and is forced to say Ben's famous line. She is just someone to flirt with in the 1st, then Happy's ex in the 2nd. Now when you need her to matter, she has a job and profound dialogue.
It's just so unfortunate for a film with beautiful concepts concerning healing, sacrifice, and paying homage to former films.
Multiverse of Madness is cool. I just wish there was more build up to America controlling her abilities. That resolution is something I respect, but didn't feel earned because they wasted the film on tacky fan service with the Illuminati. It needed more Wong. He is a better mentor than Strange.
Anyway, update on the Amazon Silk live action series by Phil Lord and Chris Miller.
- Titled Silk: Spider Society now
- Will be on MGM+ as well
- Angela Kang will be showrunner
- It will be the 1st of many Spiderman related series on Amazon
My speculation is that they might be mapping out their own version of the Grim Hunt and Spider Island. Multiple Spider based heroes and those that hunt them like Ezekiel's nasty cult and Kraven's family. Possibly connected to the Madame Web film and the rest of the Sony Spider-Man films.
https://deadline.com/2022/11/spider-man-spin-off-series-silk-mgm-amazon-1235175212/
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@Riddler said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Sooo....what is everybody's opinions on Phase 4 now that it's basically over?
There was way too freaking much of it. The sheer number of movies AND tv shows mean the commitment to this phase was equal to like all the other phases combined... and in 2 years instead of 10.
I know that the actors from the earlier movies are getting older and phasing out as their contracts end, but every single one of the is giving them a teenage (mostly female) sidekick to carry on the torch with in the next phase. Ms. Marvel, other Ms. marvel, America, Love, Iron Heart, Wanda's kids, Ant Man's kid, Hawkeye's Kid... and to a less teenage extent She-Hulk, the entire roster of Wakanda, new Black Widow, WInter Soldier and Falcon,..
And that's cool and what they need to do, I like the Young Avengers, but in the comics it took decades to set up all these decedents and they largely got to work with the originals before the inevitable replacing. Here it feels like they're setting up the dominoes to do it all at one with all of them and I dunno, it's just a bit much.
Good on them for throwing more spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, moon Knight, Eternals, Shang Chi, etc. but its just so so much.
It absolutely hit the point where I'm no longer watching everything and just the stuff I care about. Still haven't watched several of the shows and movies. It feels less like a twice a year event and more like homework now.
Guardians 3 is the only film in the entire roster for phase 5 I'm really still looking forward to but I've felt pretty done with it since the end of phase 3 and nothings really convinced me otherwise. Some fun bits here and there but for me at least its certainly hit the saturation point.
We're also getting Daredevil back and that's cool but not exactly the same Daredevil so... ?
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@Robby I agree, even as a guy who has been reading Marvel comics in elementary school way before the MCU was even a thing, even I am finding it hard to keep up to date with all this stuff, so idk how other less invested people are supposed to keep up at all
And honestly Thor Love and Thunder and Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness were the movies I was looking forward to the most were complete flops for me, the only phase 4 projects I truly loved were Shang Chi SpiderMan No Way Home and Wakanda Forever
I don’t have as much faith in the MCU as I used too
I hope this is mostly because of Covid and they’ll get back to there usual self
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The only phase 4 thing I've seen was Dr Strange because I like Sam Raimi and my wife loves the first Dr Strange, and while it has some occasional bright spots I thought it was a total mess.
Will maybe check out Ms Marvel and She Hulk at some point, but otherwise Guardians 3 is the only one I'm really interested in, though the Gamora Factor is putting a slight damper on that.
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I don't want to be mean, but Groot looks off to me in the promotional pics for the Guardians special.
2023 might be the first year, where the MCU has 6 series. They toned down the amount of series in 2022 to make room for the 2 specials.I believe they can fit a fourth film into 2023, but I don't think it would be a good idea. 2024 will be the most crowded year for the MCU. Best to leave room before the storm.
