I'll be honest, I don't even remember Bucky in the first film, such is the impression he made.
Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs
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I rewatched the movie today. Loved it as much as the first time.
But that second time made me confirm something that bothered me the first time with the airport battle.! And that's how Vision just disappear in the beginning of that battle. They should at least have shown a small scene of Wanda "freezing" him or something like that.
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I rewatched the movie today. Loved it as much as the first time.
But that second time made me confirm something that bothered me the first time with the airport battle.! And that's how Vision just disappear in the beginning of that battle. They should at least have shown a small scene of Wanda "freezing" him or something like that.
! I noticed the same thing. Vision is immediately forgotten about and Wanda disappears before too long too. Given her powers, she would have been a priority to neutralize.
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Those two were both busy neutralizing collateral damage.
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Oh, that's what we're calling making out now? Kids these days, coming up with new terms for everything.
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Oh, that's what we're calling making out now? Kids these days, coming up with new terms for everything.
Well I'm gonna start calling it that now lol.
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Saw the film this last weekend, so my immediate "wow" phase is fizzled out. I really feel that Civil War is one of the better MCU movies, particularly because of how well the conflict and drama was handled. I do agree that it isn't quite as fun as other movies like Avengers or Guardians, but the drama was good enough to make up for that (to me, anyways).
Both sides were well balanced, and I really liked that they showed how guilty he was feeling about his past. It gets even worse when you consider he dismantled all his suits at the end of IM3 in hopes of moving away from the guilt, and yet Ultron happened and more casualties occurred. I was team Cap going in (and probably still am), but I gained a lot of sympathy for Stark's side.
Action was great, and the airport scene was the highlight. Ant-Man was awesome, especially for that moment.
As much as I liked this Spider-man, he had some short screen time, and felt like a weird character tangent for the middle segment of the movie. Same with Hawkeye and Antman. Not that I'm complaining, they contributed to the fight in entertaining ways that I wouldn't want any other way.! And seeing Cap talk to Spidey like a friend was great! Definitely important for that character relationship.
So about the ending, and what follows for the rest of the movies…
! Huh, never would have thought Zemo would have been the most successful villain in the MCU (probably, anyways. More on that later). He wanted to divide the Avengers, and he did that. And I kept wondering if they were going to bring his comic costume into the movie, and I'm glad they didn't.
! Like DarthAsthma pointed out, the movie ended on a high note that probably shouldn't be so, because there's still a divide between the heroes at the end. But the more I think about it, the more I'm ok with it, because there's still some hints of the avengers making amends (such as Stark reading Cap's letter at the end, and getting a call from Ross about a break-in at the Raft… and Stark puts Ross on hold. Stark knows it's Rogers, and he willing doesn't do anything about it). And that's something I liked about the movie, a lot of the character relations were still intact, or at least, working towards being rebuilt. Like Wanda and Vision apologizing to each other, or the conversation between Black Widow and Hawkeye at the airport.
! Yeah, there's still a divide (I mean, what'd we just watch for 2 1/2 hours?), but I strongly feel like they'll come together again for Infinity Wars.
! For a while, I really thought the movie would end with Stark helping Bucky by using the augmented reality therapy we saw in the beginning, to help Bucky work through his mind and figure out his past. But of course, we know how Stark feels about Bucky, and things ended quite differently.Haha I just learned the directors worked on some Arrested Development episodes, along with some Community ones as well. That explains the Community actors in Winter Soldier and CW. And apparently the Bluth Staircase car is in the airport scene briefly? Dunno, I didn't catch it.
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About Natasha Romanoff:
! I'm a fan of Natasha's theme of looking for a place to belong or a family if you want to get Whedony. Which, of course I do.
A big part of her motivation to go along with the Accords is that she doesn't want the Avngers to split up. Because she finally has a group of people around her that she cares about and it's not just about the mission anymore. Then at the airport she helps Steve and Bucky escape because she is not ready to cut her ties with Rogers by opposing him directly. She was at Peggy's funeral for emotional support! That's the best thing she's done in this movie.
! Another thing was her trying to connect to T'Challa after his father had been killed. It was very awkward as she didn't know how to approach him but she was there. I just realized that I could see more signs for a future Natasha/T'Challa pairing than I ever did with Natasha/Bruce. She had wonderful chemistry with Steve and Clint too but those are better off being friends. Black Panther though…
Banner better get his green behind back there soon. I did like them together in Age of Ultron (eventually) but it came out of nowhere.
! Anyway, I wonder if Natasha has always been trying to reach out to people like that or if that's a recent development thanks to the team or Steve or maybe Shield collapsing and her giving up her various identities. -
so…does Jubilee even use her powers in the new movie? I'm a 90's kid, so I was kinda pumped for her real ingression in the movieverse as a whole.
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so…does Jubilee even use her powers in the new movie? I'm a 90's kid, so I was kinda pumped for her real ingression in the movieverse as a whole.
! Yeah, tho, don't expect as much screen time out of her as Cyclops, Jean, or Storm.
! Also, Singer has confirmed that thing I said. -
! Yeah, tho, don't expect as much screen time out of her as Cyclops, Jean, or Storm.
well, beggars can't choose, can they?
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Michael B Jordan is joining the Black Panther cast.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/black-panther-michael-b-jordan-893845Given it's the director of Creed making the film, I'm excited since they've proven to work well together before. Wonder what his role's gonna be though.
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The original human torch from the Defenders, obviously.
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Can we take note that MCU officially has two former Human Torches?
Also, Black Panther keeps sounding better and better as a movie.
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I'm surprised at Michael B. Jordan apparently being a villain in the movie. Maybe I just took this for granted, but I assumed Andy Serkis' appearance as Klawe (and his loss of limb) were setting him up as the villain of Black Panther.
Maybe He won't be the only one?
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Yeah, Clawe doesn't scream main villian for anyone, he seems like a thug like Rhino or Electro.
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I never seen Electro as a thug. Of course, I am not talking whatever role he had in Amazing Spider Man 2 since I wasn't interested in watching that. What about Man-Ape?
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I'm surprised at Michael B. Jordan apparently being a villain in the movie. Maybe I just took this for granted, but I assumed Andy Serkis' appearance as Klawe (and his loss of limb) were setting him up as the villain of Black Panther.
Maybe He won't be the only one?
I usually thought of Klawe as the one who killed King T'Chaka, but . . . . .
But Klawe definitely has to have a presence at least in the movie.
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You don't get Andy Serkis for a bit part, same with Michael B. My guess is we have 2 villains in the movie.
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Am I the only one who thinks that MODOK should be in some movie already?
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A possible Black Widow movie in the works. Interesting but the only reason I'd watch it is to stay up to date with anything that could impact the MCU. I still think she's just a Le Femme Nakita in a super hero setting.
Also some news on Lupita being in the Black Panther movie.
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I would have pegged Lupita Nyong'o as T'challa's sister, but I guess she's his romantic interest. I think she would have been cooler as his sister.
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I would have pegged Lupita Nyong'o as T'challa's sister, but I guess she's his romantic interest. I think she would have been cooler as his sister.
That would be good. I'm always down for action/super hero movies without love interests.
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If we needed anymore proof of the success of this movie, it just passed the $940 million mark.Whether it's marvel fatigue or something else it has hit a bigger drop-off compared to other movies, but still nothing to cry about.
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Michael B Jordan is joining the Black Panther cast.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/black-panther-michael-b-jordan-893845Given it's the director of Creed making the film, I'm excited since they've proven to work well together before. Wonder what his role's gonna be though.
Can we take note that MCU officially has two former Human Torches?
Also, Black Panther keeps sounding better and better as a movie.
#BlackPantherSoLit
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So when do Denzel Washington and Morgan Freeman join the cast?
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And I assume a cameo by Hiemdall played by Idris Elba?
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A possible Black Widow movie in the works. Interesting but the only reason I'd watch it is to stay up to date with anything that could impact the MCU. I still think she's just a Le Femme Nakita in a super hero setting.
Also some news on Lupita being in the Black Panther movie.
I like some of her interactions but yea she is easily one of the most boring Avenger and definitely can't stand alone as a character.
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I like some of her interactions but yea she is easily one of the most boring Avenger and definitely can't stand alone as a character.
wowowowowowowowowowowow.
She is the sole reason I ever started with the MCU.
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wowowowowowowowowowowow.
She is the sole reason I ever started with the MCU.
Really? Why's that? To me just just another red head Russian spy type character. Even though the MCU definitely needs some more diversity she barely raises the bar in my standards. I don't hate her character. I just think she's not interesting in personality or skill set.
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Yeah, Clawe doesn't scream main villian for anyone, he seems like a thug like Rhino or Electro.
Probably because he was treated as fodder in the movies, I think he would be a pretty good villain. Electro and Rhuno aren't just thugs either, an actual "just a thug" would be the enforcers or something of that sort.
Seems nowdays people watch the cartoons where they are all fodderized and thats it.
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Yea there really isn't anything about her that pretty much stands out. She is basically a strong female character but without an actual character or personality or anything that would separate her from the other generic female. I mean how many movies have we seen her in, and how many of them had genuine character moments that give us a understanding of her character, and more importantly to actually care?
People can argue that she at least isn't getting rescued every 5 mins like another female character from another famous super hero movie but she's also just …... there. Even her "emotional" moments when Nick supposedly dies in Winter Soldier came off as trying too hard instead of something we generally gotten to know and understand over the course of the movies.
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Does Marvel have a female hero that's got an outright sense of humor? Or isn't emotionally messed up or stoic?
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Does Marvel have a female hero that's got an outright sense of humor? Or isn't emotionally messed up or stoic?
She Hulk from what I've heard.
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She Hulk from what I've heard.
Oh yeah. I forgot about her. I don't think she'll make it to the MCU though.
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People can argue that she at least isn't getting rescued every 5 mins like another female character from another famous super hero movie but she's also just …... there. Even her "emotional" moments when Nick supposedly dies in Winter Soldier came off as trying too hard instead of something we generally gotten to know and understand over the course of the movies.
I think Civil War gave us character moments for her as I said in this post. And if she had her own movie, we could obviously get to know her better.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
wowowowowowowowowowowow.
She is the sole reason I ever started with the MCU.
I also only started with MCU because of a red head Russian spy! His name is Joss.
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Does Marvel have a female hero that's got an outright sense of humor? Or isn't emotionally messed up or stoic?
Janet can be funny, Spider Woman is sarcastic which is funny, She Hulk fits the bill also, plenty more, but yeah those 3 to me are a lot more interesting that Black Widow, I don't dislike Black Widow, but I would have preferred Janet to be the original female hero instead of her, but that would probably have to make them include Pym so they would have to add two characters instead of one.
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Janet can be funny, Spider Woman is sarcastic which is funny, She Hulk fits the bill also, plenty more, but yeah those 3 to me are a lot more interesting that Black Widow, I don't dislike Black Widow, but I would have preferred Janet to be the original female hero instead of her, but that would probably have to make them include Pym so they would have to add two characters instead of one.
I'm not sure who Janet is.
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I'm not sure who Janet is.
Sorry she is the Wasp (the mom that is lost in the microverse in the movies not Hope).
The original avengers in the comics were Thor, Hulk, Wasp, Giant man and Iron Man.
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Sorry she is the Wasp (the mom that is lost in the microverse in the movies not Hope).
The original avengers in the comics were Thor, Hulk, Wasp, Giant man and Iron Man.
Ahh. I see. I don't think I have ever heard anything about her personality before.
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Ahh. I see. I don't think I have ever heard anything about her personality before.
She isn't a comedic character per see, but she isn't a dark super spy either, she was even the one that picked the Avengers name, so I really felt she should have been used in the movies.
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She's just . . . . . cheerful.
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I'm not sure who Janet is.
Janet van Dyne aka the Wasp
Not only the original female founding member of the Avengers incomics but she's also had time as a leader of the Avengers on several occasions. She was originally a fashion designer so her character is known for many different outfits. As the wife of Hank Pym there was a drama in the comics that went beyond heroics and into married life.
Originally she was a flightly, fun-loving personality but was quickly 'seasoned' to be a strong female character that didn't need to resort to the cliché of 'strong female is a femme fatale-black ops/spy-mysterious and serious type' that Natasha fills.She was part of the scene that was one of the biggest events that made people hate Hank Pym = when he became an alcoholic and slapped her has been remembered for decades. Even when stories went past that and she moved on, showing inner strength and developing a more solid personality, and eventually he becomes redeemed (somewhat depending on who's debating) that one panel is still remembered.
Frankly I do love the personality she showed in the late 80s/90s and do wish she was the one to appear in the Avengers movies.
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Speaking of the Wasp and Ant-man, was there any particular reason to why they went with Scott Lang as Ant-Man instead of Hank Pym?
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I would guess it's so they didn't have another movie about a brilliant scientist who becomes a hero with a suit he made.
I mean the Ant-Man film has plenty in common with the first Iron Man film, but having Hank be an older retired mentor to Scott at least gave it an interesting dynamic.
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Speaking of the Wasp and Ant-man, was there any particular reason to why they went with Scott Lang as Ant-Man instead of Hank Pym?
A factor could be that the story idea (the whole heist thing) worked best with Scott, or the angle of his daughter and all that.
Pretty sure part of it is that Hank Pym is kinda tainted in the comics.
In Avengers 213 back in 1981, Hank Pym was in the middle of a severe mental breakdown due to guilt from having built Ultron (it was Hank in the comics) and he'd been going steadily crazier and crazier. It came to a head when he was going to be court martialed from the Avengers for using excessive force on an enemy who was surrendering, and he decided that the way to make everything right would be to pull a Syndrome and make a killer robot to attack the team that he could easily defeat because he had the controls.
Janet tried to talk some sense into him because that plan was dumb and crazy, and he punched her and then callously was like "Put on your coat, let's go". Since then, he's gotten a bad beat as a "Wife Beater".
To be fair, Jim Shooter has gone on record saying Hank wasn't supposed to have hit Janet. He was supposed to shrug her off of him, which is why he seems completely un-phased by it and is like "Put on your coat" like nothing happened, but the artist, who had been encouraged to make most actions look as dramatic as possible drew it in a way that looked like he hit her, and most later writers to work on the character picked up on the "he hit her" interpretation of it and wrote stories explicitly treating him like a wife beater, and It slowly became a defining characteristic of Hank Pym to a lot of people.
I think what made it especially bad was the (again, unintentional) callousness. Like, he acts like he's in no way sorry about hitting her when he does it and that only came in later when later writers did stuff with it, so people see him as a Monster as a result.
Meanwhile, you have stuff like Spider-man during the Clone Saga hitting Mary Jane, but the writer INTENDED Pete to hurt her, so he instantly realizes what he did was horrible and reacts the natural way someone might when accidentally hurting a loved one.
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Considering she's walking around with a black eye and all the Avengers are shocked to see her and confront Pym over it in the same issue, it was pretty clear that Shooter was talking out of his ass (as usual) and not just a one-panel incident which was only acknowledged in later issues.
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Hank is a complicated issue. He did strike Janet (most likely more than once). There's no excusing it, but he was pretty fucked up. He had built Ultron, who went rogue and started killing people. The Avengers started hating him for building Ultron, adding to his guilt. He started drinking and having these panic attacks where he would build in hopes to help the Avengers, trying to redeem himself.
Later years, Hank would become suicidal and be revealed to be a victim of bipolar disorder. Again, not an excuse, but the character has evolved toward a point where he and Janet have spoken, mended their ways (even when they've gone different ways). He's been in relationships with other Avengers at this point, but still Hank isn't all that popular and often forgotten.
That's the reason Hank isn't Ant Man. That, and Scott is much more liked and approachable, as he has a pretty cool relationship with his daughter in the comics too.
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Considering she's walking around with a black eye and all the Avengers are shocked to see her and confront Pym over it in the same issue, it was pretty clear that Shooter was talking out of his ass (as usual) and not just a one-panel incident which was only acknowledged in later issues.
Eh, according to Jim Shooter she was still supposed to get hurt, it was just supposed to be an accident rather than him outright punching her like he does in the issue.
@Jim Shooter:
In that story (issue 213, I think), there is a scene in which Hank is supposed to have accidentally struck Jan while throwing his hands up in despair and frustration—making a sort of “get away from me” gesture while not looking at her. Bob Hall, who had been taught by John Buscema to always go for the most extreme action, turned that into a right cross! There was no time to have it redrawn, which, to this day has caused the tragic story of Hank Pym to be known as the “wife-beater” story.
But I'm not commenting on whether or not I fully believe him or if he's trying to rewrite history, just presenting it as he presents it to be fair to the guy.
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Hank is a complicated issue. He did strike Janet (most likely more than once). There's no excusing it, but he was pretty fucked up. He had built Ultron, who went rogue and started killing people. The Avengers started hating him for building Ultron, adding to his guilt. He started drinking and having these panic attacks where he would build in hopes to help the Avengers, trying to redeem himself.
Later years, Hank would become suicidal and be revealed to be a victim of bipolar disorder. Again, not an excuse, but the character has evolved toward a point where he and Janet have spoken, mended their ways (even when they've gone different ways). He's been in relationships with other Avengers at this point, but still Hank isn't all that popular and often forgotten.
That's the reason Hank isn't Ant Man. That, and Scott is much more liked and approachable, as he has a pretty cool relationship with his daughter in the comics too.
Excuse me, but didn't Janet also tricked Hank when he turned into the Yellow Jacket by making him believe that she didn't knew he was Hank trying to hide his identity with the goal of marrying him?