Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

Shift

Take a look back, if you care to:
Vol. 1
Vol. 2
Vol. 3
Vol. 4
Vol. 5
Vol. 6

Now we've arrived at Wano, a land destined to be the battleground for amazing characters both new and old. Any of them could very well be those elusive 9th and 10th persons we’ve been awaiting for 10 unforgettable years.

No matter who you’re rooting for, whether they be a shoe-in or have a snowball’s chance, you are free to discuss your visions for the destiny of the crew. Who truly knows what the future (and Oda) has in store?

Let’s keep it clean: no flaming, no trolling, no punches below the belt. Ready…

DON!

Monquito

first!

hehe

do a poll. i like polls.

Shift

@Monquito:

first!

hehe

do a poll. i like polls.

When Jinbe makes it to Wano, I'll take stock of the candidates for #10 and set something up.

Wintermute

Congrats to your promotion Shift!

I can feel it. This time we will get Jimbe into the Sunny.

fapfapfap

First page

#10 Jinbe
#11 Carrot
#12 Maybe someone from Wano
#13 Sunny

screencap this post

Long John Silvers Rayleigh

#8 checking in. Feels like a great time to refresh the discussion and all.

Kdom

@Shift:

Let’s keep it clean: no flaming, no trolling, no punches below the belt. Ready…

DON!

I suppose you meant :
Ready…
BEN!

Piitan

@Shift:

Let’s keep it clean: no flaming, no trolling, no punches below the belt. Ready…

DON!

@Kdom:

I suppose you meant :
Ready…
BEN!

Also, pretty sure he meant no punches below the lion.

.access timeco.

You know, this week, thanks to Episode of Sky Island and to people talking about the movies on Greg's thread, I thought it was about time to finally watch some of One Piece movies. I decided to watch Strong World, Gold and Omatsuri (which I never even heard about until someone mentioned it in the said thread).

Having watched Episode of Sky Island and then watching later Omatsuri, I realized how much better the crew dynamics were back when they were just 7. Franky is my favorite SH, hands down, Brook probably is my second, but I think it's pretty obvious since they joined the crew the things became a little less cohesive… right now, rather than wishing for new members, I am feeling like maybe it would be better if Oda stopped adding people long ago.

theackwardstation

New thread, so I guess I'll say hello to everyone.

Oh, you guys want my opinions on the subject? Sure.

First of all, I hold the opinion that Jimbe is pretty much guaranteed as the 9th crewmate, even tough it's really weird that he was left behind again at the end of WCI.

As for the 10th, if there's going to be one, I see Carrot being written for the spot. One of my main reasons is that there's a character arc going on for her ever since she got onboard the Sunny, a storyline that was made especially clear when Pedro made his sacrifice and told Carrot that it's important to protect the Strawhats because they will bring the Dawn that the minks are expecting. Of course, Carrot has not yet inhirited Pedro's will, but now that the seed has been planted in her mind, she became the obvious vessel for the narrative to explore the concept, and that's when we'll witness her major character development (as it usually happens in flashbacks for the other Strawhats). As of right now, Carrot's sense of purpose (dream) is not to live with the minks in Zou, since her triggering motivation is to have an adventure in the sea, so it's only natural that the evolution of her purpose/dream (to help bring the Dawn of the world?) will reconcile with her original interest… and becoming a Strawhat is the perfect convergence for her character arc, since she'll help Luffy bring the Dawn while having lots of adventures in the sea.

Of course, the destination of her character arc (which will surely happen in Wano, I believe) doesn't necessarily leads to becoming a Strawhat, since there are other possible outcomes. However, I see some other reasons that reinforce my understandment that Carrot will join the crew. First of all, she was added in WCI without any particular plot reasons other than to highlight herself, and her participation was put in the same position as the other Strawhats, as corroborated by the cover of volume 88, and now she's in Wano to have another adventure with the crew (and I must remember that she's the only mink in Wano right now). Aside from that, Carrot's bond with the crew got so strong in WCI that it's really hard to see her belonging somewhere else right now.

Carrot is also overperforming in other aspects. In terms of characterization, her main archetype is the Genki Girl, but it goes really beyond that, since she's got a wide range of personality traits that make her engaging to read (Carrot is not only energetic, but badass, psychotic, airheaded, cute, girly, overly affectionate, smart, naive without being dumb/gullible), and her own set of quirks. It's also extremely positive that her attitude matches Luffy's, because she is a character that will be easily integrated with any kind of situation that usually comes up in One Piece. Not to mention that Carrot is also a strong fighter (with a great power up), so she can defend herself and will be useful against future enemies. By the way, it's worth mentioning that Carrot has a unique fighting style inside the crew, since her weapon is very different (the claw-gloves) and she specializes in melee combat with very acrobatic moves that are visually stunning and gracious, with added electricity. I also hold the opinion that her design is great, very shonen-like in the context of a female protagonist, with physical traits and silhouette that only belong to her in the series.

Carrot's skills are those of a scout (as shown in Zou), so it's quite obvious that her role in the crew would be the same on land, as well as a lookout in the sea (a legitimate job in a ship), and she's been doing it a lot already.

If Carrot is indeed the 10th crewmate and she joins the crew together with Jimbe, it's really cool how many contrasts/parallels they have.
Jimbe is a fishman (sea/water), Carrot is a mink (sky/air and electricity).
Jimbe is the sun, Carrot is the moon.
Jimbe is a veteran/old, Carrot is a rookie/young.
Jimbe is a man, Carrot is a girl.
Jimbe is big, Carrot is small.
Jimbe is very serious, Carrot is very playful.
They balance each other out really well.

So yeah, #Carrot4nakama

K. Kira XXIII

@theackwardstation:

snip

But you forget that no Mink can stay on Zou. So why can't Carrot help with the migration of Zou to another land? That also encompasses her desire to travel, is helping her people which the Minks have shown to be loyal to. They are about to engage in a war that might leave them in the same state/weakened after. And protecting the crew does not necessarily mean she has to travel with the Straw Hats, as demonstrated with the Straw Hat fleet. The fleet will help the Straw Hats when the latter needs it, Carrot can do the same as the fleet is doing.

From the previous thread:

You say that Luffy oversimplifies and gets things wrong. But is that the case? With Nami he ignored the details of her circumstance, he was just waiting for her to ask for help. With Robin he didn't care if she wanted to die, but at least do it where you want it, which broke Robin's shell to say she wanted to live. With Chopper he ignored Chobro's insecurities and excuses to breal through to him, and make him realize, if you want come, just do it.

Luffy isn't gwtting things wrong, he is avoidong the needless saturation of information/circumstances and gets straight to the core aspect of things. The same way when he deals against an enemy he breaks down the entire organization's structure. We saw it with Baroque Worls, with overthrowing Mango from Dressrosa.

So going back to his comment about " a land full of Choppers". You can't put forward author's intentions/understandment and then deny this comment. Because it is Oda putting that line through Luffy, that as described he sees the core concepts and people/things/situations. As in any work, there was an intention, the author didn't randomly geberate sentences, he is purposefully putting these details for a reason. This is not a draft, an alternative scenario. The final work had that line, so in Oda's minds the Minks are a bunch of Choppers.

This is even without going into speculation of, what are the origins of the Minks? Devil fruits have existed for a while, could the original Minks have been animals that ate the human fruit during the void century? We also have to see that they have been living on Zunisha for centuries, Zunisha was punishednto walk forever. But anyways, as I said that is the speculative part.

MrBits

@.access:

You know, this week, thanks to Episode of Sky Island and to people talking about the movies on Greg's thread, I thought it was about time to finally watch some of One Piece movies. I decided to watch Strong World, Gold and Omatsuri (which I never even heard about until someone mentioned it in the said thread).

Having watched Episode of Sky Island and then watching later Omatsuri, I realized how much better the crew dynamics were back when they were just 7. Franky is my favorite SH, hands down, Brook probably is my second, but I think it's pretty obvious since they joined the crew the things became a little less cohesive… right now, rather than wishing for new members, I am feeling like maybe it would be better if Oda stopped adding people long ago.

I feel the basically the same.

I’ve been a big fan of Jinbei since WCI, so him joining would be nice in it’s own right, but I think it would be better if Oda just stopped at Brook. Just having new characters join the Grand Fleet would be ideal for me.

That’s why I think the Grand

Blissed

@.access:

You know, this week, thanks to Episode of Sky Island and to people talking about the movies on Greg's thread, I thought it was about time to finally watch some of One Piece movies. I decided to watch Strong World, Gold and Omatsuri (which I never even heard about until someone mentioned it in the said thread).

Having watched Episode of Sky Island and then watching later Omatsuri, I realized how much better the crew dynamics were back when they were just 7. Franky is my favorite SH, hands down, Brook probably is my second, but I think it's pretty obvious since they joined the crew the things became a little less cohesive… right now, rather than wishing for new members, I am feeling like maybe it would be better if Oda stopped adding people long ago.

Oda:

theackwardstation

@.access:

You know, this week, thanks to Episode of Sky Island and to people talking about the movies on Greg's thread, I thought it was about time to finally watch some of One Piece movies. I decided to watch Strong World, Gold and Omatsuri (which I never even heard about until someone mentioned it in the said thread).

Having watched Episode of Sky Island and then watching later Omatsuri, I realized how much better the crew dynamics were back when they were just 7. Franky is my favorite SH, hands down, Brook probably is my second, but I think it's pretty obvious since they joined the crew the things became a little less cohesive… right now, rather than wishing for new members, I am feeling like maybe it would be better if Oda stopped adding people long ago.

This is an interesting discussion to me, because I used to feel the same as you many years ago.

But honestly, there are so many variables other than the number of crewmates that are also affecting the dynamics of the main cast, so it's not about stopping at Robin and everything is fine. Truth is that One Piece arcs before Water 7 were much quicker and more compressed (despite some bigger arcs like Alabasta and Skypiea) and many arcs had a ratio of more Strawhats than non-Strawhat characters, so there was a higher concentration of crewmates interactions. It's also worth noting that the beginning (especially from Arlong Park to Skypiea) is when the dynamics inside the crew were taking shape, so it was fresher. (And then the CP9 saga was, of course, a story focused on the Strawhats' personal drama despite its larger scale, so everybody was great there.)

Some things have changed since then. Most islands that we go now have denser plotlines and the villains are much more complex than before, so new characters get a lot of focus. Also, Luffy is constantly separated from the rest of the crew, which really matters, since the narrative is very Luffy-centric. The crew itself is constantly scattered around the islands, so they have less moments together. Also, there are less fights now compared to the beginning of the series.

Of course, the number of Strawhats may have some influence in some aspect, but it also a conscious choice of storytelling.

I'd also say that Oda's style has changed. When it comes to the protagonists, Oda exaggerates their comical side more nowadays, sometimes even too much (like Sanji's chivarously nature becoming too perv later in the story). Other characters are a little difficult to write, like the non-mysterious Robin post-EL. It's also controversial when some characters don't show evolution, like Usopp still being too coward everytime. And these are "problems" (subjective) that are not caused by the additional crewmates, but because Oda has changed his writing. Overall, the pacing and the art style are also different.

All that said, we're not being really fair here and there's a lot of selective nostalgy around (remembering only the gold moments instead of the average). There are some great dynamics of the crew post-time skip and I especially like how the original crewmates (from the East Blue) are still the heart of the gang. I think WCI was awesome for the Strawhats. And there's a lot of potential now in Wano and future arcs.

FelRes

OFFICIAL RUNNING:

Jinbe (99.9% chance)
Kuma (29% chance)
Pudding (10% chance)
Vivi (1% chance)
Okiku (0.1% chance)
Smoker (0.01% chance)

Not even in the running:
Perona
Monet
Carrot
Otama

MrBits

@FelRes:

Kuma (29% chance)

Nani the what????

Blissed

@FelRes:

Kuma (29% chance)

Pudding (10% chance)

Lol, come on now…

Game And Guy

Holy shit it's a new thread. It's been so long.

Piitan

@MrBits:

Nani the what????

Based on the fact that his DF has the 2 and 9 missing from the SH numerology theory.

theackwardstation

@K.:

But you forget that no Mink can stay on Zou. So why can't Carrot help with the migration of Zou to another land? That also encompasses her desire to travel, is helping her people which the Minks have shown to be loyal to. They are about to engage in a war that might leave them in the same state/weakened after. And protecting the crew does not necessarily mean she has to travel with the Straw Hats, as demonstrated with the Straw Hat fleet. The fleet will help the Straw Hats when the latter needs it, Carrot can do the same as the fleet is doing.

As I said, becoming a Strawhat is not the only possible outcome for Carrot's arc, and that's why I mentioned other reasons for why I think she will join. Anyway, becoming a Strawhat is much more fulfilling for her purposes than the examples that you mentioned, and much more appropriate than "adventuring" by helpink your folk move to another island or suddenly becoming a Captain of a crew.

From the previous thread:

You say that Luffy oversimplifies and gets things wrong. But is that the case?

Yes, that is the case.

Here is Luffy meeting Kaku and thinking it's Usopp because of the long nose: https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/325/15
Here is Luffy thinking that Cricket is talking about Usopp because he mentioned a great liar: https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/228/7
Here is Luffy saying that Nami is stealing the villagers' houses after she told him that she steals from pirates: https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/9/15
Here is Luffy thinking that a zombie is an old man: https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/448/12

These are only the examples that I can recall from the top of my mind… but it should be mentioned how Luffy also misunderstands or simplifying many things, like his childish concept of a hero, or saying that allies are friends, or his famous jokes of calling something "mysterious" whenever he doesn't understand it, or confusing the physical traits of people and animals (like calling the bananawani a banana with a crocodile).

His observation that Zou is like an island full of Choppers is in-character for him.

That doesn't mean that an artist should have the same understandment of concept-design as Luffy. As I explained, "furry" is a pretty big umbrella design-wise and the extremes are too far apart to matter.

K. Kira XXIII

@theackwardstation:

As I said, becoming a Strawhat is not the only possible outcome for Carrot's arc, and that's why I mentioned other reasons for why I think she will join. Anyway, becoming a Strawhat is much more fulfilling for her purposes than the examples that you mentioned, and much more appropriate than "adventuring" by helpink your folk move to another island or suddenly becoming a Captain of a crew.

How so?, Traveling the world with the Straw hats would take her to a couple of islands maximum as the Straw Hats are already heading to the finish line, like they themselves mentioned upon discovering the Road Poneglyphs.

Looking for a sustainable/appropriate place for her people to live will push her to explore many different type of islands so the Minks can settle there. There is a much bigger scope of islands in comparison to what the Straw Hats have to go through.

Yes, that is the case.

Here is Luffy meeting Kaku and thinking it's Usopp because of the long nose: https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/325/15
Here is Luffy thinking that Cricket is talking about Usopp because he mentioned a great liar: https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/228/7
Here is Luffy saying that Nami is stealing the villagers' houses after she told him that she steals from pirates: https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/9/15
Here is Luffy thinking that a zombie is an old man: https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/448/12

These are only the examples that I can recall from the top of my mind… but it should be mentioned how Luffy also misunderstands or simplifying many things, like his childish concept of a hero, or saying that allies are friends, or his famous jokes of calling something "mysterious" whenever he doesn't understand it, or confusing the physical traits of people and animals (like calling the bananawani a banana with a crocodile).

And all your examples are for comedic purposes, not at all comparable to the line about the Minks. Again, Luffy gets rids of the needless intricacies. Like saying that allies are friends. Allies should be friends it is our human nature that makes us conspire or fear betrayal.

His observation that Zou is like an island full of Choppers is in-character for him.

That doesn't mean that an artist should have the same understandment of concept-design as Luffy. As I explained, "furry" is a pretty big umbrella design-wise and the extremes are too far apart to matter.

But even then, the line was used, Oda is speaking through his work and Luffy. The line was not a joke, and it is true, it is an island fulñ of Choppers, regardless of they dress or have different body shapes. The core of it is: furry talking animal.

theackwardstation

@K.:

How so?, Traveling the world with the Straw hats would take her to a couple of islands maximum as the Straw Hats are already heading to the finish line, like they themselves mentioned upon discovering the Road Poneglyphs.

Looking for a sustainable/appropriate place for her people to live will push her to explore many different type of islands so the Minks can settle there. There is a much bigger scope of islands in comparison to what the Straw Hats have to go through.

I appreciate your perception of adventure and romance, and I suppose Luffy could be a real estate broker if he was not a pirate, or maybe a truck driver, but I really don't see Carrot's dream being to move her folk to another island and enjoying this thrilling experience. I guess we should just disagree here and move on.

And the manga is ending since Laftel is really close now, sure, but that doesn't mean that the Strawhats perceive that as the end of their adventure together. How is Nami drawing a world map with just a few more islands to go? What if Sanji doesn't find the All Blue before Laftel (we know that he will soon, but he doesn't)?

What matter is that getting onboard the Sunny is the biggest adventure there is, even if the series is about to end. Nobody is gonna think "I shouldn't become a Strawhat now if I want adventures".

And all your examples are for comedic purposes, not at all comparable to the line about the Minks. Again, Luffy gets rids of the needless intricacies. Like saying that allies are friends. Allies should be friends it is our human nature that makes us conspire or fear betrayal.

But even then, the line was used, Oda is speaking through his work and Luffy. The line was not a joke, and it is true, it is an island fulñ of Choppers, regardless of they dress or have different body shapes. The core of it is: furry talking animal.

It's not comparable because you don't want to, just as you can't guarantee that Oda is speaking through Luffy (especially when Luffy is acting in-character). If that's your interpretation, it's fine, man, no worries, because this kind of stuff is completely open to interpretation. However, it's not a fact. For instance, my interpretation is that an artist that studied illustration and design as much as Oda has a better understandment than "furry talking animal"… especially when the two characters in discussion are a chibi-mascot-plushie-thing and the other a girl with bunny traits.

.access timeco.

Carrot: Time to find a new land for the Mink tribe to live on. I can already see all the different places we will meet until we can find the appropriate place to final-
Momonosuke: You guys can live here.
Mink: YAY!

HikaruYami

I'm still not 100% sure that anyone will formally join after Jinbe. All we're missing in the core crew at this point is a giant, and the ship is too small for that. Despite the minks being qualitatively different from Chopper, a devil-fruit-powered pure-animal, I still think the animal component of the crew is already satisfied with Chopper and we don't need a mink to join.

Literally the only type of character we're missing besides a giant is the cadet who will carry on the pirate spirit like Shanks did with Roger.

And I want to be as clear as possible on this: I am not predicting that Momonosuke will join the crew. I don't even want him to join the crew. But if anyone else joins the crew after Jinbe, it feels like it'll be some kid, with the explicit understanding that Luffy will not take responsibility for protecting him (even though he totally will).

BattleFranky69

@.access:

Carrot: Time to find a new land for the Mink tribe to live on. I can already see all the different places we will meet until we can find the appropriate place to final-
Momonosuke: You guys can live here.
Mink: YAY!

Isn't that ultimately Jimbei's goal, though? Race relations improving and eventual relocation for Fishman kind? She's just stepping on too damn many toes.

.access timeco.

@BattleFranky69:

Isn't that ultimately Jimbei's goal, though? Race relations improving and eventual relocation for Fishman kind? She's just stepping on too damn many toes.

I'm actually just rolling with this "relocation of the Minks", really. I have no idea where this came from, but since nobody questioned I suppose I just forgot about it.

BattleFranky69

@.access:

I'm actually just rolling with this "relocation of the Minks", really. I have no idea where this came from, but since nobody questioned I suppose I just forgot about it.

I don't particularly recall (though since I only ever read the chapters once, it shouldn't be expected that I would) it being mentioned that the Minks required a new place to crash after being there for such a long time, but since Zunisha got attacked and its leg was pretty f'ed up, is that why they're looking or at least talking about it or is that just speculation and it was never really addressed?

Hypothetically speaking, at least, it would stand to reason why someone like Carrot would be seen as a good candidate to scope out such a place and leave a landmark there for later, given how people are clamoring for her as a lookout/scout. But with her impetuous nature and inexperience it's difficult to support such a position and while she is gaining experience now, it's tremendously reminiscent of Chopper getting his sea legs and we've already seen that. The South Park episode title #Rehash comes to mind here. At this late stage in the series, a rookie coming on board now makes no sense anyway. Even their newest official member, Jimbei, is far more seasoned than any of the rest of them, which fits. Someone going from zero to fighting a Blackbeard fleet commander in this short duration doesn't really make logistic sense, so there's that too. Maybe if they'd met the Minks before the time-skip and we've had reason to believe they were training their collective asses off like the Straw Hats and Jimbei, but as it is, it's not feeling like the real deal. Jimbei was as good as joined before the time-skip anyway, so for a newcomer at this point, I'd just expect things to click without question. Nobody's felt like that outside of Franky and Jimbei (for me, at least), and although I was wrong about Brook because being a secondary swordsman still makes no sense to me, Carrot has way more going against her as far as I can tell.

Blissed

@HikaruYami:

I'm still not 100% sure that anyone will formally join after Jinbe. All we're missing in the core crew at this point is a giant, and the ship is too small for that. Despite the minks being qualitatively different from Chopper, a devil-fruit-powered pure-animal, I still think the animal component of the crew is already satisfied with Chopper and we don't need a mink to join.

Literally the only type of character we're missing besides a giant is the cadet who will carry on the pirate spirit like Shanks did with Roger.

And I want to be as clear as possible on this: I am not predicting that Momonosuke will join the crew. I don't even want him to join the crew. But if anyone else joins the crew after Jinbe, it feels like it'll be some kid, with the explicit understanding that Luffy will not take responsibility for protecting him (even though he totally will).

We're not missing a giant. It's not like Luffy is purposely looking to have every race on his crew. Not to mention there's other races out there anyways if that was the case. Like you said though, they're too big, so nothing more to say on that.

And the animal component in Chopper didn't stop Jinbe from joining, just saying.

And I think the first chapter, among others, makes it pretty clear that Oda isn't going to add a kid to the crew. At best, I could see a scenario where Tama fits such a role one day when she's older, where Luffy makes a new promise with her, but definitely not during the current storyline. But that's just Tama. Regarding Momo, he's effectively the New World's Vivi.

KageKageKing

I have like zero interest in anyone that appeared so far outside of Jinbe.

theackwardstation

Jimbe's goal is not the realocation of fishmen. Of course that's an important cause of his people, but this will has been carried away by other characters, like the royal family.

Jimbe is a pirate and he always understood the boundaries of his situation. As a Shichibukai he could become a diplomat for the fishmen to the human world, and then when he lost his title, he got Big Mom's protection for Gyojin Island. And that's all we know about Jimbe's fight for his people. He never mentioned carrying the goal of searching a place for the fishmen to live in the surface.

And even if that was his goal, that would be his dream, therefore accomplished by doing it. That's different than saying that Carrot would accomplish her desire of having adventures by helping her people move to another island.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Since this is a new thread, I'll mention my opinion about Momonosuke. He won't join the crew, but he will go to Laftel with Luffy just like Oden with Roger.

BattleFranky69

@theackwardstation:

Jimbe's goal is not the realocation of fishmen. Of course that's an important cause of his people, but this will has been carried away by other characters, like the royal family.

Jimbe is a pirate and he always understood the boundaries of his situation. As a Shichibukai he could become a diplomat for the fishmen to the human world, and then when he lost his title, he got Big Mom's protection for Gyojin Island. And that's all we know about Jimbe's fight for his people. He never mentioned carrying the goal of searching a place for the fishmen to live in the surface.

And even if that was his goal, that would be his dream, therefore accomplished by doing it. That's different than saying that Carrot would accomplish her desire of having adventures by helping her people move to another island.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Since this is a new thread, I'll mention my opinion about Momonosuke. He won't join the crew, but he will go to Laftel with Luffy just like Oden with Roger.

I disagree about the first bit, but I like the second bit, about Momo tagging along to Raftel. I bet the Straw Hat Grand Fleet will escort them there. If getting to Raftel is as tricky as all that, they'll probably need more than one ship to make it and the rest of the fleet paving the way for them would be the grandest send-off.

Shift

@FelRes:

OFFICIAL RUNNING:
3)Pudding (10% chance)

Not even in the running:
Carrot

K. Kira XXIII

@.access:

I'm actually just rolling with this "relocation of the Minks", really. I have no idea where this came from, but since nobody questioned I suppose I just forgot about it.

I will respond more later, but thw relocation of the Minks was discussed at the end of the Zou Arc after Jack was ddfeated by Zunisha.

The Minks recognized that Zunisha was put in danger by them living there. The attack from Jack made them realize that.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

[hide]
[/hide]

The Minks have taken for granted where they lived, now they recognize that they cannot live there any longer.

I am not taking this out of my ass, I am basing it on what the series is putting out.

.access timeco.

You know, it's funny how we are constantly making up reasons to decide ourselves why a character definitely can't join (too boring, too young, too nami clone, too blonde), all subjective, while completely overlooking the fact Jinbe has been around for 10 years, been a major character in 4 arcs, and we still don't know the most basic thing about him as a SH: what his dream is.

Among all the made up criteria we come up with, there is only one thing that is, beyond a doubt, a box every SH must check at some point (having their unique dream that is their drive force). And Jinbe never really checked that one.

I mean, we suppose his dream is the peaceful coexistence of fishmen/merfolk with humans because that was Fisher Tiger's dream and that was Otohime's dream and pretty much every fishman wants that now so that must be his dream as well… right!? It is worth of note the only reason why we think that's his dream is because his background lacks any other possible one, not because he has shown a strong desire to see this one coming true. In fact, Otohime kids are portrayed as the real ones trying to make that dream come true, not him (after all, how exactly being on the Pirate King crew would work in that sense?).

Jinbe must have his own dream we'll find out at some point, but at this moment, after so many years, he still seems to lack any kind of strong motivation rather than "showing gratitude to whomever". We already had two arcs to present and develop him, one arc on his homeland with a huge flashback, another arc with him cutting his last ties... and we are still on the dark here. If we held him by the same standards we do the other characters, we would be saying "if Oda wanted him to have a strong dream, he would have done it by now".

I am not saying Jinbe is not joining, obviously. Nobody in their right mind would be doing that at this point, just pointing out how the double standard is heavy here. With him, we can understand Oda is not necessarily bound by a certain way of doing things and may take his time to get somewhere if he wants to go there, but if we are not already 100% certain of the fact he is going there, suddenly we throw away any semblance of understanding.

BattleFranky69

I don't even know what the deal is with Pudding. I guess you could argue that even though she's human (and I'm rooting for a non-human with no DF power), she can be distinguished from Nami and Robin since her hair has a different style than straight down and it's a brown to contrast Nami's red and Robin's black, and her black eye. But there's just not enough there, no combat-compatible DF ability, no real-world experience, she's awfully young by comparison, she's clearly not remotely ready to leave behind the only life she's ever known, and just from me personally, I find her split-personality quirk annoying.

@.access:

You know, it's funny how we are constantly making up reasons to decide ourselves why a character definitely can't join (too boring, too young, too nami clone, too blonde), all subjective, while completely overlooking the fact Jinbe has been around for 10 years, been a major character in 4 arcs, and we still don't know the most basic thing about him as a SH: what his dream is.

Among all the made up criteria we come up with, there is only one thing that is, beyond a doubt, a box every SH must check at some point (having their unique dream that is their drive force). And Jinbe never really checked that one.

I mean, we suppose his dream is the peaceful coexistence of fishmen/merfolk with humans because that was Fisher Tiger's dream and that was Otohime's dream and pretty much every fishman wants that now so that must be his dream as well… right!? It is worth of note the only reason why we think that's his dream is because his background lacks any other possible one, not because he has shown a strong desire to see this one coming true. In fact, Otohime kids are portrayed as the real ones trying to make that dream come true, not him (after all, how exactly being on the Pirate King crew would work in that sense?).

Jinbe must have his own dream we'll find out at some point, but at this moment, after so many years, he still seems to lack any kind of strong motivation rather than "showing gratitude to whomever". We already had two arcs to present and develop him, one arc on his homeland with a huge flashback, another arc with him cutting his last ties... and we are still on the dark here. If we held him by the same standards we do the other characters, we would be saying "if Oda wanted him to have a strong dream, he would have done it by now".

I am not saying Jinbe is not joining, obviously. Nobody in their right mind would be doing that at this point, just pointing out how the double standard is heavy here. With him, we can understand Oda is not necessarily bound by a certain way of doing things and may take his time to get somewhere if he wants to go there, but if we are not already 100% certain of the fact he is going there, suddenly we throw away any semblance of understanding.

I mean…we can't just dismiss that he's basically done nothing his entire life but strive for exactly what we're all saying his ultimate goal is. Joining Fisher Tiger's crusade but never giving in to the raw hatred of guys like Arlong and Hody Jones, accepting the position of Shichibukai and becoming basically a martyr for his people, leaving them behind so he could be the upstanding figurehead and sacrificing his ability to keep Arlong in check, refusing to fight Whitebeard because the man was Fishman Island's protector, and now being on the crew of Fishman Island's next great protector, the fifth Yonkou, for crying out loud...and even now, he delayed his recruitment yet again FOR HIS PEOPLE. If that doesn't spell it out for everyone, nothing will. His people are everything to him, and he sees Luffy's heart and how much it will benefit his people in the long run. Luffy's more than earned his loyalty but his people still come first. I think he sees the end of the road and how Luffy will be standing there, triumphant, with a grateful world cheering him on and heeding his every word, and how that will result in the entire fish/mer people races stepping proudly, safely and happily onto the surface world to be greeted as equals to every other sapient species in the world. Jimbei's been around a long time, so his instincts have probably given him that insight, but it still stems from his motivation that can't be ignored.

Robby

Jinbe explicitly said he wants to join the crew of the future pirate king to better fishman relations, followed by his entire crew encouraging him to go and finally do something for himself instead of being responsible for others all the time.

He's obviously also got history in Wano (and maybe his scar) so we might finally get the rest there, but he has explicitly stated his dream out loud… and its the same thing we guessed about him 10 years ago before he even appeared on camera.

Blissed

@.access:

I mean, we suppose his dream is the peaceful coexistence of fishmen/merfolk with humans because that was Fisher Tiger's dream and that was Otohime's dream and pretty much every fishman wants that now so that must be his dream as well… right!? It is worth of note the only reason why we think that's his dream is because his background lacks any other possible one, not because he has shown a strong desire to see this one coming true. In fact, Otohime kids are portrayed as the real ones trying to make that dream come true, not him (after all, how exactly being on the Pirate King crew would work in that sense?).

We didn't suppose anything, it even got reiterated in WCI:

The only thing Jinbe is arguably "lacking" is a backstory/flashback where he's the central character. Because in the one we got in Fishman Islands, the main stars were Fisher Tiger and Otohime. Hell, the way Oda's going about having Jinbe join is what pushed me towards Carrot as the WCI arc progressed.

K. Kira XXIII

The reason why joining Luffy will better the relations is because Luffy will break the status quo in a way that has never been done before, which will ultimately involve taking down Im and the Celestial dragons in favor of something less racist etc.

BattleFranky69

@K.:

The reason why joining Luffy will better the relations is because Luffy will break the status quo in a way that has never been done before, which will ultimately involve taking down Im and the Celestial dragons in favor of something less racist etc.

Even though it's the Revolutionaries' (and his dad's) cause, I do hope he'll deliver the 'killing' blow to the system or whoever represents it at the final battle for reformation.

K. Kira XXIII

The most symbolic thing would be destroying the Empty not so Empty throne, but would that make the final war's location Mariey Joyieiye(sp?)

Long John Silvers Rayleigh

@K.:

I will respond more later, but thw relocation of the Minks was discussed at the end of the Zou Arc after Jack was ddfeated by Zunisha.

The Minks recognized that Zunisha was put in danger by them living there. The attack from Jack made them realize that.

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The Minks have taken for granted where they lived, now they recognize that they cannot live there any longer.

I am not taking this out of my ass, I am basing it on what the series is putting out.

A major part of the zou arc was the reveal that the kozuki clan and minks have been friends for centuries. Since the kozuki used to rule wano and their goal is opening the borders of wano who better to start with then letting a group that has had previous ties and is super different into the country.

This is an issue relating to Wano and the minks particularly on Isolation. I understand there's a race element but Oda isnt afraid to retread previous narrative threads that have some similarities like with Sanji and Robin.

Plus what benefit is it storywise to ignore the meaning of that bond and have the zou citizens find some random place when oda can really hammer in the breaking of borders message.

Forget Carrot, what the story seems to be setting up with Zunisha's incoming demise, the Kozuki-Minks bond, Wano's Policies and Oden's dream is too narratively rich for me to be fine with any mink leading them on some random mission to find just any island.

Itd be like if Luffy rang the bell on skypiea but we never cut back to cricket and the monkeys

BattleFranky69

@K.:

The most symbolic thing would be destroying the Empty not so Empty throne, but would that make the final war's location Mariey Joyieiye(sp?)

If there's a scene where a bunch of zealots who are adamant about the throne being vacant come upon it and see Luffy napping in it…so awesome.

.access timeco.

The problem is that's something we know. We know Luffy will solve all that is wrong in the world in his quest to become Pirate King, but that's not something Jinbe should know. From his perspective, being on the crew of the biggest criminal of current times shouldn't really mean "humanity will accept fishmen as equals". I mean, look how much Roger was loved by the population…

But anyways, regardless if he should be aware of that connection or not, the fact is he is because "he got a feeling".
I admit I had forgot about that panel Blissed posted, but honestly, it kinda still works with the general point I was trying to make. If we are to assume that is Jinbe's one big dream, we are to accept his dream is the one shared by every other fishman and of which he is not even portrayed as one of the most prominent advocates - past or present -, with its defining moment being, well, that panel... (which I couldn't have really argued to be forgetabble better than by simply forgetting it... as I did). His dream is just there, is not something unique to him, and again, if we held him by the same standards as do other characters we would be using this very fact as detrimental to him as a SH.

Long John Silvers Rayleigh

@.access:

The problem is that's something we know. We know Luffy will solve all that is wrong in the world in his quest to become Pirate King, but that's not something Jinbe should know. From his perspective, being on the crew of the biggest criminal of current times shouldn't really mean "humanity will accept fishmen as equals". I mean, look how much Roger was loved by the population…

But anyways, regardless if he should be aware of that connection or not, the fact is he is because "he got a feeling".
I admit I had forgot about that panel Blissed posted, but honestly, it kinda still works with the general point I was trying to make. If we are to assume that is Jinbe's one big dream, we are to accept his dream is the one shared by every other fishman and of which he is not even portrayed as one of the most prominent advocates - past or present -, with its defining moment being, well, that panel... (which I couldn't have really argued to be forgetabble better than by simply forgetting it... as I did). His dream is just there, is not something unique to him, and again, if we held him by the same standards as do other characters we would be using this very fact as detrimental to him as a SH.

Well he's at least above Sanji whose dream is to find the all blue but has only been brought up in flashbacks since loguetown and sanji has made no canon effort to try and find it. In fact it almost works more like a wish with him since it's focused on so little

BattleFranky69

@.access:

The problem is that's something we know. We know Luffy will solve all that is wrong in the world in his quest to become Pirate King, but that's not something Jinbe should know. From his perspective, being on the crew of the biggest criminal of current times shouldn't really mean "humanity will accept fishmen as equals". I mean, look how much Roger was loved by the population…

But anyways, regardless if he should be aware of that connection or not, the fact is he is because "he got a feeling".
I admit I had forgot about that panel Blissed posted, but honestly, it kinda still works with the general point I was trying to make. If we are to assume that is Jinbe's one big dream, we are to accept his dream is the one shared by every other fishman and of which he is not even portrayed as one of the most prominent advocates - past or present -, with its defining moment being, well, that panel... (which I couldn't have really argued to be forgetabble better than by simply forgetting it... as I did). His dream is just there, is not something unique to him, and again, if we held him by the same standards as do other characters we would be using this very fact as detrimental to him as a SH.

Do we know how the population at large felt about Roger? Because we know how tons of places, and not just the common people, but the leadership as well, feel about Luffy, and it's resoundingly positive. Jimbei even set it up purposely for Luffy to be the hero of Fishman Island even though he could have taken out Hody himself (like how Goku could have killed Buu but let Goten and Trunks try to give the next generation motivation to work harder, the same with how Master Roshi did with him and young Krillin by beating them in the martial arts tournament so they wouldn't let being the best go to their heads and make them rest on their laurels.) Obviously Jimbei saw something in Luffy that would motivate him to prime him for that kind of thing, so he sees a horizon that even Luffy might not at the moment. He's aged and wizened, so I give him credit for being able to see a winning horse and betting the farm on it, and having it pay off in the most spectacular way.

Blissed

@.access:

The problem is that's something we know. We know Luffy will solve all that is wrong in the world in his quest to become Pirate King, but that's not something Jinbe should know. From his perspective, being on the crew of the biggest criminal of current times shouldn't really mean "humanity will accept fishmen as equals". I mean, look how much Roger was loved by the population…

But anyways, regardless if he should be aware of that connection or not, the fact is he is because "he got a feeling".
I admit I had forgot about that panel Blissed posted, but honestly, it kinda still works with the general point I was trying to make. If we are to assume that is Jinbe's one big dream, we are to accept his dream is the one shared by every other fishman and of which he is not even portrayed as a one of the most prominent advocates - past or present -, with its defining moment being, well, that panel... (which I couldn't have really argue to be forgetabble more than by simply forgetting it... as I did). His dream is just there, is not something unique to him, and again, if we held him by the same standards as do other characters we would be using this very fact as detrimental to him as a SH.

Amusingly, the Minks (namely through Pedro) are doing the same thing with this whole Dawn thing, just assuming that one way or another, the Straw Hats are the key to ushering it in. In fact, they're the only two races in the entire series that have people within them that hope that the Strawhats will achieve their dream somehow, based on their "feelings" as you put it. Just like how Fishman equality is a goal that extends past the Fishman Island arc, the "Dawn" very likely extends past the objectives of the Wano arc as well.

To me, I don't see Jinbe's dream as being a detriment, just simply a change from what we're used to from Oda. I think it's cool that he's willing to mess with perceived patterns. Makes it more interesting for the last member when all is said and done.

JDub

You absolute madmen. RIP Vol. 6, it's the end of an era.

@.access:

The problem is that's something we know. We know Luffy will solve all that is wrong in the world in his quest to become Pirate King, but that's not something Jinbe should know. From his perspective, being on the crew of the biggest criminal of current times shouldn't really mean "humanity will accept fishmen as equals". I mean, look how much Roger was loved by the population…

I think the idea is simply about having a prominent, well-respected Fishman and a prominent, well-respected human working together as friends. It's the optics of having an example of equality and cooperation on the world's stage. I don't think Oda (and by extension Jimbei, since he's become a mouthpiece for Oda's views on racism/equality) views racism between fishmen and humans as something that is simply resolved overnight by one or two specific events like Jimbei and Luffy working together. That's one of the big takeaways of Fishman Island. It won't solve the issue, but it's certainly a step in the right direction, especially if Luffy is to become a culture defining figure like Pirate King.

Also, since I guess this is my first post in the new thread I guess I'll speak my peace.

Jimbei's a hard lock. No question. He's already joined. He's in the crew. Upon rereading WCI my opinion on Carrot has changed a bit (in that I like her a whole lot more) and I'm more open to the idea of her joining the crew. But I don't think that she will, because I don't think she's been framed as such and I agree about the points made about her design being too similar to Chopper, and generally her design being a bit uninspired. She's one of the more fleshed out supporting characters in the series, but she has barely been the focus since she's entered the series (and I don't mean in terms of the plot, I mean in terms of the pathos and her character arc). She just hasn't been given the same focus the other members of the crew have, and it this point, nearly 100 chapters after her introduction, it feels too late for that.

I'm cautiously optimistic for Shutenmaru. Oda's doing that 'namedrop before introduction' thing which is an immediate red flag to me. And I expect him to be linked to the core conflict of Wano given what we know, which is promising. But we'll see what happens when he actually shows up.

Monquito

Been noticing how the series is giving each SH more uniqueness than they all already have.
we have the son of the most wanted man on earth, a prince, the son of a notorious member in Shanks crew, the survivor of ohara and only person on earth capable of reading poneghlyps, a 'mink-like' capable of doing 7 sulongs, a cyborg who had the chance to play with Vegapunks toys, bassically the strongest pacifista atm, and an ex-member of the ouka shichibukai to join. all of them which are big news for Morganz to introduce the crew in newspaper once we get over Kaido.

Nami, Zoro and Brook currently have not much going for them, but it seems we're going to know some very cool stuff about Zoro with hints like 'I had to retreat because of the aura of that man'. Brook also seems like he's constantly hiding stuff.

however, all Carrot, Bonney, Kuma and Pudding seem all burdened by already sets of the SH's, either by connections with the revolutionaries, fur, yonko, voat, etc.

so in my perspective, what would reallly make sense, would be someone from the marines, since its the only thing lacking in the crew, everything else is in the crew, the grand fleet, or simply out of my mind.

theackwardstation

Talking about the Strawhats's dreams, it's clear that all of them have one, but it's hard to put their dreams together in the same standard.

For instance, you have Chopper, whose dream is to become a "great doctor who can cure any disease". Well, I do feel Hiluluk's idealism in Chopper's dream, but in all honesty that's a pretty lazy idea for a dream and it's basically there to check a box, especially because it has barely taken any tangible shape as the story moved forward from Drum. In comparison, Zoro's dream was equally generic at the start, but it soon took shape in the form of Mihawk, and you can also see Zoro becoming a better swordsman throughout his journay (not only in power level, but many of his fights are about virtues of the Bushido).

Usopp has a great dream of becoming a brave warrior of the sea, which I like very much and the character has developed around this idea, but that's also really vague in meaning even today.

Then you have Sanji, whose dream is barely ever mentioned and it's kinda weird too. I'm sure Oda has a great idea for the All Blue when the time comes, but I never really understood this particular dream. Let's see, the logic here is that it would be great to find a sea where all types of fish exist because Sanji is a cook. Well, I guess that would be pretty cool, but what does he plan to do after he finds the All Blue? Open a restaurant in this sea where nobody lives in? Or maybe he will live there with the Strawhats? Or maybe they'll stay there for a few days and cook 3% of the species living there and then get out?
There are some pretty cool theories about the All Blue (like that one about destroying the Red Line), but right now it is just a dream to check the box.

Brook's dream to meet Laboon again is only valid because it is phrased in a way that "he should cross the entire Grand Line before reuniting with his friend". Very romantic indeed.

FelRes

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