When reading: "the Kosukis closed Wano to protect it from an external great power…", the feelings were: "it's Im", and "the closure was in the void century or right after"....
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Chapter 972: I Am Oden, And I Was Born To Boil
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It's crazy to think that Kaido killing the hag for interfering in the fight is what will lead to his downfall in a certain sense. If he never did that, Bon-chan wouldn't get her fruit and cross paths with Luffy, later helping him escape Impel Down.
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It's crazy to think that Kaido killing the hag for interfering in the fight is what will lead to his downfall in a certain sense. If he never did that, Bon-chan wouldn't get her fruit and cross paths with Luffy, later helping him escape Impel Down.
She was still too old, could've died of natural causes easily.
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So is Hitetsu, Toki in disguise?
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Now that the flash back is over so begins THE WAR!!!
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Nah… we're not even close to that yet.
The raid on Onigashima has to fail, then Luffy has to grow some more, more people have to make their way to Wano, the Marines need time to find a reason to properly invade...
But it already failed. Luffy already had 9 days to grow and train, now it's time to win and not have WCI all over again.
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@uniaka:
But it already failed. Luffy already had 9 days to grow and train, now it's time to win and not have WCI all over again.
We're less than halfway through the arc, and there's no way Luffy can beat two Yonkou at his current level.
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So are the 7 cubes there to represent the amount of protagonists
Luffy
Zoro
Kidd
Law
Drake
Hawkins
KillerExactly 7 supernovas here. Excluding Apoo
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So are the 7 cubes there to represent the amount of protagonists
Luffy
Zoro
Kidd
Law
Drake
Hawkins
KillerExactly 7 supernovas here. Excluding Apoo
What are you talking about? What "cubes"?
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What are you talking about? What "cubes"?
I think he is talking about the paper balls Hyori made. You can see them on the last page, lower right panel, where Momo and Hyori are sleeping.
SW-3170-8630-8341
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@Gol:
I think he is talking about the paper balls Hyori made. You can see them on the last page, lower right panel, where Momo and Hyori are sleeping.
Yup this?
They seem to be the focus while mentioning the protagonists
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@Gol:
I think he is talking about the paper balls Hyori made. You can see them on the last page, lower right panel, where Momo and Hyori are sleeping.
If that's what he meant he is reaching.:ninja:
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He means the Alliance that defeated the Ancient Kingdom, and became the World Government/Celestial Dragons.
And what do you think became of their "might" after forming the WG? You think they threw their weapons and are solely dependant on the marines to protect them?
Are they hoping that there would be 3 powerful admirals each generation that would balance the power scale?
I don't think so, the same power that existed back then is still here, but just sleeping until they need to use it.
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Toki's prophecy said 9 people, not 7.
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Toki's prophecy said 9 people, not 7.
True, but we can assume that Hiyori and Momo will play a role, so those two + seven paper balls/cubes are 9 people, who are needed to fullfill the prophecy.
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The colour spread truly does look nice, but it's the second one in a row that's promoing some collaboration. I really don't like the idea of the colour spreads just becoming the One Piece ad space. Interesting that everyone is in their classic Fishman Island outfits except Usopp and Chopper. Usopp's shirt is new, and the numbers of Chopper's top weren't there before. It's probably meaningless, but it's interesting that it happened regardless.
I was worried about the pacing for this chapter given how little there seemed left to cover before Oden's death, but it turned out to be a pretty satisfying read. There were a couple of odd things though. The spreading of the news across the land was a weird point, given we'd just been shown Orochi's guys hemming in all the citizens that heard. How quickly did it get to someone with the authority to send a news arrow out? Given how much of a hold Orochi seems to have on the capital, would there be anyone around willing to send out such damaging news? You almost could have had a whole scene of one loyalist trying to send the message while that one mystery bowman who keeps killing citizens who question Orochi tries to shoot him down first. Similarly, Oden keeping his swords in prison and being able to meet with Toki to hand them over. It's not the end of the world for it to have happened, but one scene showing how Orochi's forces tried and failed to stop it would make things feel a lot more thought through. Oda might not have had room, but hey, maybe as anime filler. Hint hint, Toei.
Also, a little translation thing, it feels like the pivotal line would have flown better if the order was reversed (ie "I was born to boil! Because my name is…" "...Oden!") because that would be a more natural thing for the citizens to cry out as he died. It's a shame Stephen was forced to commit to one version of the wording four years ago without the full context. There's really no way we're going to get a totally ideal translation for One Piece unless it's started after the series ends. Oda does this to us too often. Also, what was Denjiro trying to say before Raizo stopped him? Not sure I'm following from the start of the line. Not sure if that was Oda's intent or just how it's been worded in English here.
Despite everything, I think the pivotal moments of Oden stepping into the pot and first lifting the Scabbards over his head had more of an impact than his actual death. Still, Oda did a really great job of showing him deteriorate over the course of the chapter, with his hair losing his shape, his posture starting to slouch, the blood and rendering, and a subtle screentone to show his body turning red. It's painful to look at.
I don't have strong feelings about the prophesised figure the same way a lot of other seem to. One Piece has always been about inherited will in a lot of ways, and it's obvious that Luffy will eventually be learning and taking on the will of Joyboy. So far, inheriting the will of another has always been something done by choice because of similar ideals, not because it was destined or because someone was a reincarnation of someone else. Luffy is no more a reincarnation of Joyboy now than he was a reincarnation of Roger back when we thought it was only the late Pirate King he was taking on the will of. Of course, this may change when we learn what exactly made Joyboy so sure it would be exactly 800 years before a successor appeared, and that may put more of a reincarnation/destiny spin on things, but like, I'm not going to get mad about that before it's actually confirmed.
I wonder if there's going to be more to Cat and Dog's fight than what we've seen here. It's a good starting point, especially considering the victory Cat was bragging about is going to be stolen from them, but I want to see how it escalates to how they were at the start of Zou.
I was ready to take Raizo's flashback panel as an error/mistranslation, what with Oden calling him by name in their apparent first meeting. I had to reread chapter 962 to remember the snippet of backstory he was given there, that he used to be part of the Kozuki family's ninjas and that Oden did recognise him from that. So many little things to keep track of through this arc. Luckily Oda's memory is better than mine.
Loved the panel tearing away as Toki ripped up the message on the last page, as well as the scraps of it overlapping the following panels. It's a nice, unexpected touch of the kind Oda doesn't usually go for.
What I'm not sure about is that last narration box. It strongly suggests the flashback is over, but it's extremely rare for them to end bang on the last page of a chapter like this. Usually Oda tends to transition from past to present in the middle of a chapter, often over the course of a page or two with the black background fading out. And it seems like there's a lot left to cover here! Particularly Momo and Kaido's meeting and the exact circumstances and wording of Toki's prophecy. Maybe the suggestion is meant to read as the flashback accelerating over the next chapter to go toward the present, given that a lot of these later events have already been discussed at length. Don't get me wrong, I'll be happy to see Luffy again if we are flashing forward, but I'll believe it when it happens. And if we actually are going back right away, I'll be expecting more flashback later on. Maybe when Kaido and Momo come face to face at Onigashima that'll be the trigger for the last section of this story. Just seems weird to break it up that way after committing so hard to telling the whole story in this one block here.
A good chapter overall, even if the last one really stole the show for raw impact, and I'm concerned about the choice to go back to the present so abruptly, if that is what's happening on the last page, but we'll see where we're at this time next week.
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We're less than halfway through the arc, and there's no way Luffy can beat two Yonkou at his current level.
He doesn't need to beat big mom, just orochi and kaidou. Less then halfway is assumption.
BM can easily get another amnesia to keep her busy, or get another hunger tantrum having only enemies, including beast pirates, and sanji has to cook again to stop her. Admirals can show up to fight BM and forcing her crew to leave wano. There are also all the other supernovas, SHs, german 66 that can work together to stop BM.
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But na, they aint coming, watch Big Mom weaken Kaido a bit and then go on being a useless piece of shit ala Issho in Dressrosa.
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Also, a little translation thing, it feels like the pivotal line would have flown better if the order was reversed (ie "I was born to boil! Because my name is…" "...Oden!") because that would be a more natural thing for the citizens to cry out as he died. It's a shame Stephen was forced to commit to one version of the wording four years ago without the full context. There's really no way we're going to get a totally ideal translation for One Piece unless it's started after the series ends. Oda does this to us too often
I was thinking the line might have had more impact if it was used more throughout and was like a catchphrase but the idea of inverting it so the citizens are yelling their lord's name at the end is cool too and actually better.
Also, what was Denjiro trying to say before Raizo stopped him? Not sure I'm following from the start of the line. Not sure if that was Oda's intent or just how it's been worded in English here.
I took it as Denjiro wanting to die by Oden side since he said he's not surviving the day and that's what retainers do. Raizo stops him promising instead that while he die alone they will fufill his dream for the future.
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Btw, I dont quite know why, but Kiku is the only one that hits me emotionally.
I look at everyone else running and crying and meh, but Kiku's panel makes me go; hold it, hold it, dont cry.
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@uniaka:
He doesn't need to beat big mom, just orochi and kaidou. Less then halfway is assumption.
BM can easily get another amnesia to keep her busy, or get another hunger tantrum having only enemies, including beast pirates, and sanji has to cook again to stop her. Admirals can show up to fight BM and forcing her crew to leave wano. There are also all the other supernovas, SHs, german 66 that can work together to stop BM.
The point of this arc being the most difficult challenge the SH's have ever faced, most likely means that Luffy will lose his next attempt. The probability of that is very high. That loss will be met with heavy consequences - where some lives will be lost, and possibly Luffy will have to suffer more than he ever has thus far in the series. Sacrifices are also in order according to some editor comment (Sandman's Twitter).
We know to some degree Oda is trying to parallel Luffy's fight with Big Mom and Kaidou with the story we heard from Sengoku: The Roger/Garp vs Rock's Pirates. Therefore many parties will be involved as time goes on. The Strawhat Fleet from Dresrosa will play a role. I even see Weevil and the Firetank Pirates will make their way as well, with most likely the help of Lola. The Marines will make their way into Wano as well. A grand war will occur, as it is too much for Luffy and Co. to handle at the moment. He has to lose "Round 1" of their attempt, not counting Luffy's previous attempt.
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@Gol:
I think he is talking about the paper balls Hyori made. You can see them on the last page, lower right panel, where Momo and Hyori are sleeping.
Yup this?
They seem to be the focus while mentioning the protagonists
If that's what he meant he is reaching.:ninja:
So why even highlighting them instead of the kids.
I
Great catch, Kishido. I wouldn't bet 100 percent that it's in reference to the Supernovas, but it certainly seems possible, especially since right before we see the 7 paper cubes, he mentions the figures will be muscling their way into the new world. What makes me hesitate is that there are 8 supernovas involved in Wano, thus far: Luffy, Zoro, Law, Drake, Kidd, Killer, Hawkins, and Apoo. Then again, Apoo was already under Kaido's command and there's nothing to suggest he is contemplating a change of heart. The rest of them all seem firmly against Kaido.
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I love how Oden started out wanting to open Wano just to satisfy his own curiosity, going in and out of the country and exploring the world to quench his adventurous heart. Now opening Wano is something he's obligated to do, this concerns something beyond him and the Kozuki and involves the entire fate of the world.
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What…
You guys dont remember the one supernova who went to cut Borsalino in half just for the lols??Apoo is going to be throwing jazz music all over the Beast Pirates when shit hits the fan, check it out!!
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Besides, I dont understand whatever random meaning you guys see in those origami cubes..
Mind to elaborate?
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I'm not positive, though the final comment sure sounds like it. Unless the flashback will also clear up what exactly happened between Neko and Inu on that last day, show the fall of Toki, detail how longnose guy set his hands on the swords and give new information on the traitor. One-chapter wrap up, then break and back to the wharf before Onigashima. Otherwise straight back to the present.
That extra chapter is not a given either though, we've seen more than enough of what comes next in the earlier flashback. Neko-Inu's feud can be over some stupid argument that snowballed due to losing Oden ; Kaido just had to fly to Kuri Castle and set it ablaze before the nine arrived ; until proven otherwise the spy-in-the-past could have been the shapeshifter hag ; and the present-day traitor reveal can wait until later on when said traitor takes direct action at a dramatic moment. For now we have enough tidbits that the rest can go untold, although Oda does love to spell everything out eventually.I'm less and less certain that the traitor can be a scabbard, however. Now we know they all went through the entire execution and would have died if not for Oden, so at this point I can't really picture any of them as still actively betraying his cause.
It really comes down to that Zou landing : only Kin, Kanjuro and Momo knew that Raizo was there, so Kaido had to hear it either directly from one of them, or undirectly through Doffy if and when he captured them. If it is Kanjuro (how could Kin or Momo be it ?), then his motivation had better be insanely good.so to add to this what If it's actually Raizo that is the traitor since the Vivre card was to zou they wouldn't actually know where Raizo was plus Raizo didn't know the Minks were going to tie him up
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The point of this arc being the most difficult challenge the SH's have ever faced, most likely means that Luffy will lose his next attempt. The probability of that is very high. That loss will be met with heavy consequences - where some lives will be lost, and possibly Luffy will have to suffer more than he ever has thus far in the series. Sacrifices are also in order according to some editor comment (Sandman's Twitter).
We know to some degree Oda is trying to parallel Luffy's fight with Big Mom and Kaidou with the story we heard from Sengoku: The Roger/Garp vs Rock's Pirates. Therefore many parties will be involved as time goes on. The Strawhat Fleet from Dresrosa will play a role. I even see Weevil and the Firetank Pirates will make their way as well, with most likely the help of Lola. The Marines will make their way into Wano as well. A grand war will occur, as it is too much for Luffy and Co. to handle at the moment. He has to lose "Round 1" of their attempt, not counting Luffy's previous attempt.
Luffy the first time 9 days ago, then now back in present orochi managed to stop them and seems he even captured them. We could see them all in prison when we return in present day. The traitor seems to be the big reason why kaidou and orochi won both with oden and with luffy now, because he was there to leak the info.
The final battle doesn't need to start soon that is likely saved for act 4 and 5, when other parties could start to show up.
And kaidou's battle with luffy will be long, not like luffy will beat him fast. If his battle with katakuri was katakuri owning luffy for like 10 hours and only at the end luffy starts to beat katakuri, imagine something like that for luffy getting owned by kaidou for days then after that luffy starts to win.
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The point of this arc being the most difficult challenge the SH's have ever faced, most likely means that Luffy will lose his next attempt. The probability of that is very high. That loss will be met with heavy consequences - where some lives will be lost, and possibly Luffy will have to suffer more than he ever has thus far in the series. Sacrifices are also in order according to some editor comment (Sandman's Twitter).
We know to some degree Oda is trying to parallel Luffy's fight with Big Mom and Kaidou with the story we heard from Sengoku: The Roger/Garp vs Rock's Pirates. Therefore many parties will be involved as time goes on. The Strawhat Fleet from Dresrosa will play a role. I even see Weevil and the Firetank Pirates will make their way as well, with most likely the help of Lola. The Marines will make their way into Wano as well. A grand war will occur, as it is too much for Luffy and Co. to handle at the moment. He has to lose "Round 1" of their attempt, not counting Luffy's previous attempt.
There is no way the raid fails, too much is riding on this to fail.
The strawhats have to raise to the occasion, if they fail here, they can't handle what's coming next.
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Really nice end to the flashback. The emotions really hit when the retainers ran away crying as they reminisce their first meeting with Oden.
Btw, I dont quite know why, but Kiku is the only one that hits me emotionally.
I look at everyone else running and crying and meh, but Kiku's panel makes me go; hold it, hold it, dont cry.Same man. I think it's because she and Izo were kids, impoverished ones at that with a broken family who danced in the street to get by, and her memory of Oden in this chapter was her bawling her eyes out while eating a bowl of oden because it was the first in a long time that she ever had a full, proper meal. Looking back, I think her and Izo's backstory was the one that hit me the most among the retainers.
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To me its weird that Luffy has both Joyboys will and also Gold Rogers will. Luffy said the same thing as Roger so we assume that he has the same will as Roger but what about Joyboy. We only have a prophecy to go on that. Would it not be possible if Joyboys will was for Coby? Did Coby ever meet Shirahoshi. But… another big idea would be Luffy having 2 wills being something only special to him (mental plane) while Blackbeards 2 Fruit power thing being something special to him (physical plane) showing that they are both total opposites in every possible way imaginable.
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To me its weird that Luffy has both Joyboys will and also Gold Rogers will. Luffy said the same thing as Roger so we assume that he has the same will as Roger but what about Joyboy. We only have a prophecy to go on that. Would it not be possible if Joyboys will was for Coby? Did Coby ever meet Shirahoshi. But… another big idea would be Luffy having 2 wills being something only special to him (mental plane) while Blackbeards 2 Fruit power thing being something special to him (physical plane) showing that they are both total opposites in every possible way imaginable.
You are overthinking this way too much. Inheriting a will is not the same as eating a devil fruit in any way shape or form. Its an abstract concept that just means two people generally stand for the same ideals, that's all.
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Isn't Rogers will just an extension of Joy Boys will?
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I just can not take that name seriously at all. It just keeps sounding like the name a male prostitute uses to me.
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Since Laugh Tale, I think we have to take his name literally
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Joy Boy, citizen of Laugh Tale, wearer of the legendary artifact the "Happy Hat"
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Joy boys will is literally a paper that says his descendents own the world.
The WG is just one big scooby doo-esque real estste scam to keep them from their inheritence.
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At the end IM will take off the costume and shake his fist in the air while yelling 'And I'd have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling pirates and your stupid reindeer!'
That's the last panel Oda said he had in mind since the beginning.
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At the end IM will take off the costume and shake his fist in the air while yelling 'And I'd have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling pirates and your stupid reindeer!'
That's the last panel Oda said he had in mind since the beginning.
What is this a reference to? It sounds familiar and my memory isn't very good.
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What is this a reference to? It sounds familiar and my memory isn't very good.
Scooby Doo from Hanna-Barbera.
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so to add to this what If it's actually Raizo that is the traitor
Might be him, it would make sense if after being stranded he had set a rendez-vous with Jack's forces on Zou only for the helpful Minks to stop him from meeting his rescue party. Although at this point the same reservations I have for every other scabbard do apply: whoever is the traitor, after everything they went through with Oden their reason for betraying had better be damn good. After the battle against Kaido's forces and the boiling, it will take more than "I was a Kurozumi agent all along" to convince me. "I was a dormant CP0 agent trying to throw down the Kozukis on direct orders from Gorosei/Imu" might get me slightly interested, but even that is reaching quite a bit.
I would hate a DF power-related explanation, though. "X-X fruit was mind-controlling me all these years" would feel lazy and close to Sugar-levels of bullshiting. -
It doesn't come into my head what the fucking deal is between Orochi and Kaidou
Why isn't he simply killing that annoying shithole off?
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It doesn't come into my head what the fucking deal is between Orochi and Kaidou
Why isn't he simply killing that annoying shithole off?
Why would he kill him? Kaidou isn't interested in ruling a country. And Orochi is in his pocket so he will do whatever Kaidou want.
What would he gain by killing Orochi?
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I could imagine him killing him at some point if his aims were met, but for now, they seem to have a mutually beneficial arrangement set up. I'm more curious about how the two met, myself.
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