Chapter 908: The Reverie Begins

joekido the Second

I had always suspected that we would see someone who is behind the Five Elders because it's always a trope we found in most stories. Too me I always find it hard that 5 different man controlling the Government with no central figure to make the final decisions. When we learned about the 20 kingdoms bending together and these kings moved to Mary Goeis to become the Celestial Dragons, I always wondered about the Five Elders' original and why only 5 and
not 19 different man ruling the Government. Then this arc clears things up, the Five Elders are the highest ranking Celestial Dragons and this chapter reveals the top boss of the entire government and this actually makes sense. The Five Elders are council/vizers while Im is the ruler hiding behind the shadows.

Someone however pointed out that there has to be someone to gather 20 kingdoms to fight the ancient kingdom and it's highly likely Im is descendant from that person, that person being the king of Mary Goeis.

This whole scenario is building up to look like the storyline from FFX where 1000 years ago, 2 great cities fought each other, causing the rise of Sin while here, Mary Goeis fought against the Great Kingdom with the help of 20 kings and won.

Oh, and due to the dialogues from the Five Elders; another Void Century is threaten to happen again or it may be extended

Kaworu

@Nilitch:

Well, if it's the wording that's an issue. Let's say that what they've said until now didn't have any impact in the story. They didn't make any big reveal either, they just gave their opinions on world affairs

I was originally replying to someone who said that Im didn't have to appear sooner because he wasn't relevant before. I just compared it with how the Gorosei appeared 600chapters ago, didn't say anything that impacted the story and that knowing their existence wasn't necessary either(until this very chapter)

They gave their opinions on world affairs, right. Context is important for their dialogue. We know they're capable of calling the order to eliminate an entire island. When they talk about the D being troublesome, they're not just saying "those D are annoying." There's the implication, now much further substantiated, that they will make it so that the D are eliminated if they rise up too much.

Also the calling for a cleansing in this chapter is pretty much undebatably one of the most important dialogue bubbles in the entire series.

desa

If that Im is a dude and a figther I could see him be defeated by Sabo or Dragon later on.

Kaworu

Im's giving me the impression of "frail thing of high importance that must be protected". Just my opinion but I don't think they'll be a fighter. I think the Gorosei are the final bastion of guardians for Im should all else fall. Also 99% chance that Im is the national treasure imo. Because of their origin.

Raffy

@King:

It's still too early to call this an asspull. If Im is in anyway closely connected with the treasure Doflamingo hinted about (and it's very likely that they are), then their presence is hinted in advance through Doflamingo.

When Doflaming said he was attacking Moriah because of someone higher up, it could have been assumed he was talking about the Gorosei … but now eh, maybe he was talking about someone higher than them

RJ Returns

From the wiki

Bonney's name was taken with 18th century Irish real-life female pirate Anne Bonny, a noble turned pirate, who operated in the Caribbean.

This makes way more sense than it needs to, and probably explains how shes free from prison

Ok So I'm reading some of these WMG theories, and holy moly they're pretty bad from the implications they'd have on this otherwise very well-thought-out manga.

Im is Luffy's mom
Im is shanks

This is "everyone is secretly SABO 2.0" Come on fellas. Try an explanation that makes sense, not just "wuldunt dis be cool" when making theories. "Wouldnt dis be cool" with 0 substance is how we make Fairy Tail, or just as bad - My Hero Academia - series with no substance other than highly convient, but implausabie events combined with obvious emotional manipulation and 1-dimensional characters. One Piece is better than that.

RyaPhoenix

This arc is honestly making me forget this is a pirate manga.

It does make me think, is being the Pirate King even that important with what we know now? In the grand scheme of things, it's a rather useless title that pales in comparison to what is going on in Marijois at the moment. But I suppose it doesn't really matter, because the only thing that matters is that the Pirates acknowledge the Pirate King.

SuburbanErrorist

Did anyone notice that eye is a Hawk-Eye?

AvocadoInTheRain

@RyaPhoenix:

This arc is honestly making me forget this is a pirate manga.

One piece has never really been a pirate manga. Its an adventure manga set in a world that's 90% water. All the pirate stuff just logically comes from that premise.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@SuburbanErrorist:

Did anyone notice that eye is a Hawk-Eye?

Mihawk was introduced way back in the baratie arc, so I bet that eye design is just grandfathered in and ultimately unrelated. What's more interesting is that Imu has the same eye as Zunisha.

themick

Are sai and Leo gonna cause the "great incident of historic proportions" that was talked about on the last page of chapter 800?

AvocadoInTheRain

@themick:

Are sai and Leo gonna cause the "great incident of historic proportions" that was talked about on the last page of chapter 800?

The text in 800 made it seem as though it would be caused by all of the fleet captains. Maybe Sai and Leo call the others and then cause the incident.

Candide

Hard to think of it, but moral aproach this and last chapter is: Charlos and Roswald are human. I am glad of Stelly with whom i can symphatize. I think Oda wants to tell us: tenruubito are human UNLIKE Imu.

Edit: Hence WE the D.OT have to acknowledge them.

silver_planet

That eye already on the series long ago, being it the character we already seen

auem

@RoboBlue:

Good find!

I'm guessing Ym is Uranus and has some sort of power to control surface animals, similar to Shirahoshi's ability to control sea kings. Maybe Zunisha's crime is related to the Nefertaris' treason 800 years ago?

To speculate further… it would make sense for Pluton to somehow have the power to control spirits (Pluton being the ancient Greek god of the dead), and if Blackbeard had obtained that power it could explain why he didn't die after eating a second devilfruit (he could keep the two devils from fighting and killing him).

Edit: maybe the throne itself is Uranus? It would be pretty hilarious if Sterry briefly seized control of it.

But Pluton is supposed to be a warship.Even Franky was amazed to see the design.
Also regarding that eye,Mihawk has the same.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RyaPhoenix:

This arc is honestly making me forget this is a pirate manga.
It does make me think, is being the Pirate King even that important with what we know now? In the grand scheme of things, it's a rather useless title that pales in comparison to what is going on in Marijois at the moment. But I suppose it doesn't really matter, because the only thing that matters is that the Pirates acknowledge the Pirate King.

I don't think how can this be a issue after 20 years.Most of the times Luffy and co. fight in lands and they never fight for treasures anyway.And anyway the concept of Pirate King in OP is different from normal piracy.

desa

@auem:

But Pluton is supposed to be a warship.Even Franky was amazed to see the design.

It was the design of a warship that could match Pluton.

Zhenja

@desa:

It was the design of a warship that could match Pluton.

No, the blueprint had Pluton written on it.
https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/399/8

desa

@Zhenja:

No, the blueprint had Pluton written on it.
https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/399/8

You're right. I'm surprise I could forget that.

Candide

I am sure, Oda knows nothing bout James Baldwin, but Kuma could be like copy pasted.

Ukimix

I'm honestly impressed that nobody talks about Bonney being a secret high revolutionary. (Did we know it?). To me it's a kind of obvious now with her infiltration in the middle of the rev"s plan to declare the war to the CD. She even left the castle behind and is moving to cd's holy land… The fact enriches the revs organization design. Well if it's a fact... But wow... it's strongly suggested now.

Candide

@Ukimix:

I'm honestly impressed that nobody talks about Bonney being a secred high revolutionary. (Did we know it?). To me it's a kind of obvious now with her infiltration in the middle of the rev"s plan to declare the war to the CD. She even left the castle behind and is moving to cd's holy land… The fact enrich the revs organization design. Well if it's a fact... But wow... it's strongly suggested now.

Well she is clearly acting on her own. She is daughter of Kuma and granddaughter of real queen.

uniaka ikuzakas

@SuburbanErrorist:

Did anyone notice that eye is a Hawk-Eye?

Caribou too, doflamingo too, zunisha too. Likely there is no relation between hawkeye and im, it's just how oda draws eyes for some people.

About the akainu thing. Why is it hard to believe that akainu knows about Im? He is like the main leader of marines( kong barely counts since he has such a minor presense in the manga so far). Why would he not know about him?

What if CDs do this to more warlords, Imagine Charlos riding Mihawk, or luffy's BOa hancock. Charlos:'' who got the last laugh, straw hat!''

desa

Zunisha is the most interesting since it was recent.

Ukimix

@Candide:

Well she is clearly acting on her own. She is daughter of Kuma and granddaughter of real queen.

She's not his daugther that we know. If you say it because of that page of this chapter it's Charloss talking to his father not her talking to kuma.

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But she is crying for him as Sabo is mad at seeing a fellow in such condition.

Candide

Been talking on english-american poetry. This one comes to my mind: do not go gentle into that good night, by Dylan Thomas.

On Bonney: she did made herself older to act as a queen…

Nilitch

@Kaworu:

We know they're capable of calling the order to eliminate an entire island.

Spandine did that. Not the Gorosei
Or maybe they did it. I can't quite remember. But as I said, it was the only time they happened to be useful

When they talk about the D being troublesome, they're not just saying "those D are annoying." There's the implication, now much further substantiated, that they will make it so that the D are eliminated if they rise up too much.

No, that literally what they've been saying for 672 chapters "holy cow, not that one D. again". There was no implication whatsoever
And again, I've just brought up that argument to compare them with Im. Saying that they had no better reason than him to appear sooner.

I'm not saying I hate the Gorosei as a concept or what

Also the calling for a cleansing in this chapter is pretty much undebatably one of the most important dialogue bubbles in the entire series.

Yeah, I just said that their presence wan't necessary until this very chapter

KageKageKing

Pretty weird that Oda didnt showed Bonney's updated bounty.

Zhenja

@Nilitch:

Spandine did that. Not the Gorosei
Or maybe they did it. I can't quite remember. But as I said, it was the only time they happened to be useful

They ordered the destruction of Ohara. Not so useful.

Nilitch

@Zhenja:

They ordered the destruction of Ohara. Not so useful.

Why does everyone keep repeating what I've said as if they were contradicting me ?

desa

@KageKageKing:

Pretty weird that Oda didnt showed Bonney's updated bounty.

Since she's in hiding and probably not starting incidents she could just have the old one.

RJ Returns

@desa:

Since she's in hiding and probably not starting incidents she could just have the old one.

I think she's still technically royalty, so her bouty may have actually been dropped to zero.

RoboBlue

@auem:

But Pluton is supposed to be a warship.Even Franky was amazed to see the design.
Also regarding that eye,Mihawk has the same.

Yeah, that threw me off for a long time.
Poseidon and Pluton as stated have nothing in common, and the idea that Pluton is associated with a god of death solely because of its ability to kill things is extremely boring.
Then it occurred to me that there's no reason Pluton can't permanently grant a similar power to its current owner.

Uranus could be something similar… like the throne that no one can ever be allowed to sit on.

dwo

i do not think there will be this one villain as last boss.
i think this gui is more like a priest, god or oracle. no strong fighter.

his eyes are enel like.

Medical Orbit

@KageKageKing:

Pretty weird that Oda didnt showed Bonney's updated bounty.

He didn't show Drake or Urouge's either, and didn't show Capone's during his first post-timeskip appearance.

desa

@RJ:

I think she's still technically royalty, so her bouty may have actually been dropped to zero.

Kuma had a bounty. Vivi had to hide her relation to pirates. Based on history there's no reason she wouldn't have a bounty.

Kaido King of the Beasts

@RyaPhoenix:

It does make me think, is being the Pirate King even that important with what we know now? In the grand scheme of things, it's a rather useless title that pales in comparison to what is going on in Marijois at the moment. But I suppose it doesn't really matter, because the only thing that matters is that the Pirates acknowledge the Pirate King.

It's not useless for Luffy. He wants freedom and will never really care about what's going on in Mariejois. But his actions have caused a lot of the stuff that's sending the government into a frenzy right now, and that'll increase exponentially the farther he goes. Plus his ideals of giving your all to help a friend in need will definitely be a stark contrast to the World Government committing atrocities just to preserve a balance, and I'm sure that's going to impact a lot of people who will be playing a bigger role in Mariejois' eventual upheaval.

Roronoa Zacho

About Imu's eyes I gotta say: Oda uses this kind of eyes to show either shock (unlikely in this case), or a very special being (like in the case of Zounisha).
Is Imu related to Mihawk or Zounisha? I highly doubt that.

About Imu or the huge SH being the national treasure, I like to compare:
If Doffy said:"There is a huge frozen SH in the heart of Mary Geoise!" Reaction would be:"Uh-huh, so what?"
Now if Doffy said:"There is someone in the heart of Mary Geoise sitting on the empty throne and bossing around even the Gorousei!" IMO that would cause a bigger impact in the world. Especially among all the kings and queens who swore to never sit on that throne.

The huge SH would need further explanation to cause a comparable impact.
Maybe the hat is really just a trophy from the war with the Ancient Kingdom.

smokingfrog

Just a thought, nefartari family really missed a beat with giving up being a CD family. They could have used all the powers associated with being a CD to do good for the people. They could have really helped a lot of people.

otakufan

@smokingfrog:

Just a thought, nefartari family really missed a beat with giving up being a CD family. They could have used all the powers associated with being a CD to do good for the people. They could have really helped a lot of people.

Given the 800 year gap between then and now, I'd say it's pretty much impossible to assume how a Celestial Dragon Nefertari bloodline would have turned out. Look at the Donquixote family: They were originally said to be cruel tyrants, yet Homing, Rocinante, and (post-FI) Mjosgard are all good-hearted, principled individuals who want to do good in the world. Even if the Nefertari family was originally in line with Cobra and Vivi in terms of mindset, choosing to ascend to Mary Geoise with the other Celestial Dragons would have subjected them to 800 years of being fully immersed in the growing culture of corruption and entitlement while being almost entirely removed from that of the peoples of the lower world, to say nothing of 800 years of intermingling their bloodlines with those of the other CDs.

Being so directly involved in the governance of Alabasta and its people is one of the most potent influences upon the Nefertari family's characters, so I don't think there's any real way to predict what a Celestial Dragon version of Cobra or Vivi would look like…

AvocadoInTheRain

@smokingfrog:

Just a thought, nefartari family really missed a beat with giving up being a CD family. They could have used all the powers associated with being a CD to do good for the people. They could have really helped a lot of people.

We know next to nothing about how the formation of the WG went down. Maybe not going was the right call.

RigaCrypto

@AvocadoInTheRain:

We know next to nothing about how the formation of the WG went down. Maybe not going was the right call.

Yup, beign labeled as traitor for only remaining in your kingdom and not living on MJ is enough to deduce that it was a wise and just thing to do (maybe the Nefertari family didnt aprove with most of the decisions back then but went along nevertheless).

King Cannon

@RJ:

I think she's still technically royalty, so her bouty may have actually been dropped to zero.

Being a royal means shit if you're a pirate.

See Cavendish, Sanji, Kuma himself.

Kishido

Hmmm while the chapter is interesting… I do not like that instead of building up on the Shanks thing from last chapter we get right into this

wolfwood

I'm somewhat bothered by how the count just circles this thread like a vulture.

But never sets down to chew on it's juicy juicy carcass

bonnibel

@MonkeyDBrolly:

And imagine that last person being Enel, i know its unlikely but for some reason he gives me Enel vibes.

You know, when I first saw Im in the final panel my immediate thought was "that looks like Enel." Maybe it's just wishful thinking but… that would be pretty amazing.

killerbee1000

It looks like there's three big bads in the series now. For pirates, there's Blackbeard, Akainu for the Marines, and now Ima for the World Government. And is it me, or does Ima's eyes look similiar to Mihawk's?

Sephi

I am calling it now: Connie isnt the disguise. Bonney is. Shes actually the elderly Queen, she merely poses as Bonney in order to live freely as a Pirate. It also explains why she knew whitebeard. Shes a rookie because she is posing as a completely new person. Her devil fruit allowed to create this persona for herself.

Kaido King of the Beasts

@Kishido:

Hmmm while the chapter is interesting… I do not like that instead of building up on the Shanks thing from last chapter we get right into this

I'm quite confident that the pirate Shanks talked about will factor heavily into their discussion with Im.

desa

@Sephi:

I am calling it now: Connie isnt the disguise. Bonney is. Shes actually the elderly Queen, she merely poses as Bonney in order to live freely as a Pirate. It also explains why she knew whitebeard. Shes a rookie because she is posing as a completely new person. Her devil fruit allowed to create this persona for herself.

But the government super know her(see Akainu caring about her escape). There's no way a known traitor is left to pirate around. Also she is in the run so I don't see how she would govern a country.

Xelloss

@RigaCrypto:

(maybe the Nefertari family didnt aprove with most of the decisions back then but went along nevertheless).

With all the information we have about the void century having been told in small pieces, we have never really had the possibility to talk about the implications.
However, things are like this:

The Nefertari of Alabasta fought the war against the Great Kingdom alongside the WG-to be, earning the right to become celestial dragons
But they chose not to be CD
Instead, they went back to Alabasta, started protecting history (by preserving a Poneglyph), and possibly even hid the ancient weapon Pluton within the kingdom.

Clearly, the Nefertari didn't return to Alabasta because of nostalgia. Something happened at the end of the void century, which meant they were not happy anymore with the new political order resulting from the fall of the Great Kingdom and the formation of the World Government.
They didn't outright oppose the WG, as they are still part of it, but yes, from the CD point of view, they have to be traitors.

uniaka ikuzakas

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