Luffy's status in the pecking order

[John.Rambo]

So I was thinking with all the recent developments and the build up he has had, can we now safely assume that Luffy is stronger than Ace?

His bounty is more than twice that of Ace, he has defeated two of Big Mom’s top fighters (that should be somewhat equivalent to WB’s commanders), he’s being hyped up as the fifth emperor of the seas and practically every single person that has crossed his path has commented about his character and strength, not to mention the fate he seems to have and his status as some sort of bringer of the new age. Plus Jinbei is now his underling, the same Jinbei that fought Ace to a stalemate.

But, as Shanks said, fame can twist things, so the most important question would be the placement of Luffy among the second tier of the top powers in the world. We know that at least for now he isn't strong enough to fight a Yonkou or an Admiral (?) but is he the strongest Supernova? We have to take into consideration that we are yet to see if another Supernova has accomplished as much as he has (Both Law and Urouge were thoroughly thrashed by Doflamingo and Cracker, respectively) and the others were either curb stomped like Bonney and Kidd, or joined forces with Yonkou's crews (like Apoo, X Drake and Bege) but we are not sure about Hawkins.
To date, Luffy has been the only one to take on both Shichibukai (3), branches of the Government (2) and Yonkou's commanders (2) and came out of it as the victor, not to mention it is pretty clear now that he is stronger than Smoker (as Doflamingo used him as punching bag after Law stole his heart and Luffy defeated Doflamingo).

So, what do you guys think? Is Luffy now stronger that Ace ever was? Has he fulfilled the promise he made to both Sabo and Ace that he would be stronger than either of them? Is he the strongest of the Worst Generation bar Blackbeard?

P.S. I apologise in advance if my wording seem off or confusing, for english is not my native language.

[desa]

@John.Rambo:

So I was thinking with all the recent developments and the build up he has had, can we now safely assume that Luffy is stronger than Ace?

Most of the forum moderators are not fond of strength comparison.

Between his allies, connections and feats Luffy is just one step lower than a Yonko and more important than Ace was as a simple commander. Considering Sabo is second in command of the revolutionary he might be a more important figure than his little brother now.

In terms of strength he most likely passed Ace since he took care of Dogtooth that was Big Mom's first mate. For Sabo it is unsure.

Also the supernvas are not even close to Luffy in the pecking order. He's been back less than a month and already did more ground breaking than they did in his 2 years hiatus. And that was already the case pre timeskip. Maybe strength wise they are close but as far as actual accomplishment and importance Luffy has them beaten.

[RyaPhoenix]

I do believe that he is stronger than Ace was, because Ace's story got "cut short" in a way. I read this on this forum before, but I can't source it as I don't remember what thread it was in, but someone said that Ace had massive potential, like Luffy, and probably would have gone on to be as powerful as Roger if he'd been given the chance to live out his life as a pirate. But in the end, he died, and his story was done there. Potential only means so much, if you can't reach that potential.

Luffy on the other hand, has finally begun reaching that pinnacle. So while Ace had potential but was never able to reach it, Luffy is passing that mark. I think he's definitely between Warlords and Emperors now. He's punching up, but it will take experience in battle for him to really reach that level of the Emperors and Admirals. Being the Fifth Emperor is just as much outlying factors outside of Luffy's control as it is his strength, but I think that Wano will be the arc which cements his claim as an Emperor.

The claim is there, he just has to defend it now.

[pRopaaNS]

The difference is that Luffy is pushing himself to climp the ladder and improve himself in life-death battles against strongest opponents, while Ace isn't going on that path and is dead. In other words, Luffy's strength keeps growing and so far there are no brakes getting pulled yet. I just don't think it's fair to compare them. Or at very least it'd be kinda crude to devaluate a character because he just happened to die before realizing his potential.

[desa]

@pRopaaNS:

The difference is that Luffy is pushing himself to climp the ladder and improve himself in life-death battles against strongest opponents, while Ace isn't going on that path and is dead. In other words, Luffy's strength keeps growing and so far there are no brakes getting pulled yet. I just don't think it's fair to compare them. Or at very least it'd be kinda crude to devaluate a character because he just happened to die before realizing his potential.

He was on the sea 3 year before Luffy set sail so I don't think it's unfair.

[pRopaaNS]

@desa:

He was on the sea 3 year before Luffy set sail so I don't think it's unfair.

2 year timeskip to learn basics of haki is pretty damn potent luxury Luffy have over Ace, other than not rotting in grave.

[desa]

@pRopaaNS:

2 year timeskip to learn basics of haki is pretty damn potent luxury Luffy have over Ace, other than not rotting in grave.

I'm not sure what rotting in a grave has to do with anything. Ace had 3 years of piracy, Luffy has not completed his third year yet. So they are compared on similar place in their career.

Training on island rather than continue sailing is them making different choices in their careers.

[pRopaaNS]

@desa:

I'm not sure what rotting in a grave has to do with anything. Ace had 3 years of piracy, Luffy has not completed his third year yet. So they are compared on similar place in their career.

Training on island rather than continue sailing is them making different choices in their careers.

I was intending to make a joke about Ace's hole in his chest, but then I remembered that Luffy have one too, so I swapped up the line with something different. I guess Ace rotting in his grave isn't much of a joke then.

I wouldn't call their scenarios silimiar, because that's just an ultra low resolution view based on nothing but timeframe. Their journeys are completely different, as are their powers.

[desa]

@pRopaaNS:

I wouldn't call their scenarios silimiar, because that's just an ultra low resolution view based on nothing but timeframe. Their journeys are completely different, as are their powers.

Which is why Idon't understand why it is unfair to compare them. The question isn't who has the most potential. If it was I could understand the whole Ace was cut short or had a less favorable journey and cloud the answer. But the question is did Luffy surpass his brother. Maybe thanks to luck,higher potential or just better diet but the question is just about their strength or standing not the what could have been or why it happened.

[Kaptayn]

To me there is no point debating around Ace's power level as he hasn't had a reference fight in the whole series.
Against Smoker he was stalling, Black Beard had the strangest fruit that exists, and MF was a mess.

[Admiral Issho]

@Kaptayn:

To me there is no point debating around Ace's power level as he hasn't had a reference fight in the whole series.
Against Smoker he was stalling, Black Beard had the strangest fruit that exists, and MF was a mess.

he fought jinbe to a stalemate and we have a pretty good idea how strong jinbe is

[Dohs]

Yeah sure, I'd say he was almost up there after time skip, after beating Doffy and Katakuri he's surely above him. The question is how far till Admiral/Yonkou is he? Will there be another gear?

[pRopaaNS]

@desa:

Which is why Idon't understand why it is unfair to compare them. The question isn't who has the most potential. If it was I could understand the whole Ace was cut short or had a less favorable journey and cloud the answer. But the question is did Luffy surpass his brother. Maybe thanks to luck,higher potential or just better diet but the question is just about their strength or standing not the what could have been or why it happened.

By unfair I mean that comparison there isn't even. I don't see on what grounds to compare their strengths. TO begin with, it haven't been 3 years for Luffy yet and so if by now he isn't stronger than Ace then before the 3rd year passes he'll have surpassed him for sure. But that's because he wasn't defeated to ground by a yonkou but instead spent 1,5 years mastering haki, that he's now taking advantage of and shows exponential growth. What if Ace spent some amount of time mastering basics of haki? I just don't see from what angle the comparison makes sense other than just plainly asking who's stronger.

[Saturnchild]

@John.Rambo:

So I was thinking with all the recent developments and the build up he has had, can we now safely assume that Luffy is stronger than Ace?

His bounty is more than twice that of Ace, he has defeated two of Big Mom’s top fighters (that should be somewhat equivalent to WB’s commanders), he’s being hyped up as the fifth emperor of the seas and practically every single person that has crossed his path has commented about his character and strength, not to mention the fate he seems to have and his status as some sort of bringer of the new age. Plus Jinbei is now his underling, the same Jinbei that fought Ace to a stalemate.

But, as Shanks said, fame can twist things, so the most important question would be the placement of Luffy among the second tier of the top powers in the world. We know that at least for now he isn't strong enough to fight a Yonkou or an Admiral (?) but is he the strongest Supernova? We have to take into consideration that we are yet to see if another Supernova has accomplished as much as he has (Both Law and Urouge were thoroughly thrashed by Doflamingo and Cracker, respectively) and the others were either curb stomped like Bonney and Kidd, or joined forces with Yonkou's crews (like Apoo, X Drake and Bege) but we are not sure about Hawkins.
To date, Luffy has been the only one to take on both Shichibukai (3), branches of the Government (2) and Yonkou's commanders (2) and came out of it as the victor, not to mention it is pretty clear now that he is stronger than Smoker (as Doflamingo used him as punching bag after Law stole his heart and Luffy defeated Doflamingo).

So, what do you guys think? Is Luffy now stronger that Ace ever was? Has he fulfilled the promise he made to both Sabo and Ace that he would be stronger than either of them? Is he the strongest of the Worst Generation bar Blackbeard?

P.S. I apologise in advance if my wording seem off or confusing, for english is not my native language.

It's hard to make comparisons due to the exotic nature of abilities and Oda's type of writing. For example Ace got defeated by Blackbeard and yet Magelan easily crushed Blackbeard and his entire crew. And let's not forget that the main reason Luffy managed to defeat Cracker was because Nami was with him. With no one to use water on the soldiers it's likely that Luffy would have worn himself down and lost. So for all we know Urougue could be just as physically strong as Luffy but simply have wore support. And that's in present time. If we go back further into the series Luffy had to resort Gear 2 to defeat one of the weakest members of CP9 while Zorro and Sanji took on signficantly stronger ones. So by this logic he base power of Sanji and Zorr could have been greater then Luffy's at time(and again in the post skip Luffy had to go Gear 2 to one shot a Pacifista while Sanji and Zorro did without doping so does this mean they are both physically stronger then him?)

At the end of the day it's all subjective and can change at a moments notice. But imo curently Sabo is more powerful then Luffy especially if he has mastered Ace's fruit. Ace himself…well we havent really seen him fight. The fact that he couldn't Jimbei doesnt really speak well for him though

[Kaptayn]

@Admiral:

he fought jinbe to a stalemate and we have a pretty good idea how strong jinbe is

That wasn't representative of his pre-timeskip level, as the fight happened before Luffy even became a pirate.

[maxterdexter]

Physical power? I don't now, and I don't care that much, he is not fighting either Ace or Ace Lite.

World power wise? He did beat an emperor commander, and the other previous "Fifth emperor" Joker, has a fleet, and worldwide respect and fear.

[Admiral Issho]

@Kaptayn:

That wasn't representative of his pre-timeskip level, as the fight happened before Luffy even became a pirate.

ok so he's at least as strong as jinbe and then had several years in whitebeards crew to get stronger, we don't really know much about that time other than he tried to assasinate whitebeard hundreds of times and defeated some crews in the new world but its safe to assume he picked up some tricks during those years. so we saw how much stronger luffy and the others became through their journey and then the 2 years of training ace never had that sort of training presumably but he probably fought a lot. so where does that put him?

[uniaka ikuzakas]

Ace never set a high bar, he was big shot considering the place we meet him in alabasta( even there you still had logia crocodile and logia smoker as comparison), but he looked regular compared to the top names in the war. Even his Bounty was not far from pre Sabaody A. 11 supernovas that didn't even get 2 years in the NW like him under yonkou.

[John.Rambo]

Other than Law, the Supernovas have hardly done anything noteworthy. They have spent these two years doing nothing but getting their asses kicked or allying themselves with other Yonkou. What's the deal about them? Is the world government still taking them seriously?

The label of "Worst Generation" hardly live up to the fact that only two of them have done outrageous things (BB and Luffy) and only another one did something to get into the spotlight (Law). What have they been doing these past two years?

[BattleFranky69]

@John.Rambo:

So I was thinking with all the recent developments and the build up he has had, can we now safely assume that Luffy is stronger than Ace?

His bounty is more than twice that of Ace, he has defeated two of Big Mom’s top fighters (that should be somewhat equivalent to WB’s commanders), he’s being hyped up as the fifth emperor of the seas and practically every single person that has crossed his path has commented about his character and strength, not to mention the fate he seems to have and his status as some sort of bringer of the new age. Plus Jinbei is now his underling, the same Jinbei that fought Ace to a stalemate.

That puzzled me because to my memory, I believe Jimbei said he could have taken down Hody himself if he needed to but allowed Luffy to do it and become the human hero of FI, so what are we to make of that comparison of their relative strengths? Was Jimbei not taking Gears (especially the unseen G4) into consideration?

But, as Shanks said, fame can twist things, so the most important question would be the placement of Luffy among the second tier of the top powers in the world. We know that at least for now he isn't strong enough to fight a Yonkou or an Admiral (?) but is he the strongest Supernova? We have to take into consideration that we are yet to see if another Supernova has accomplished as much as he has (Both Law and Urouge were thoroughly thrashed by Doflamingo and Cracker, respectively) and the others were either curb stomped like Bonney and Kidd, or joined forces with Yonkou's crews (like Apoo, X Drake and Bege) but we are not sure about Hawkins.

Kidd also got torn up by Big Mom, so he didn't fare against her nearly as well, and while Bege's defense was impressive, even his castle couldn't resist Big Mom's strength, so yeah, none of them measures up to anything beyond Commander level. Urouge did beat Snack, but Luffy's got the two above Snack under his belt so while another Supernova has technically beaten a Commander-level officer of Big Mom's, it doesn't hold a candle to Luffy's beating two superior officers. And Hawkins and Apoo both capitulated to Kaido, Kidd was the only one who refused so he's on the spitlist of two Yonkou now (it's a wonder he's still breathing, frankly), so Hawkins isn't currently uncertain, he's in the same boat as Apoo for the same reason.

To date, Luffy has been the only one to take on both Shichibukai (3), branches of the Government (2) and Yonkou's commanders (2) and came out of it as the victor, not to mention it is pretty clear now that he is stronger than Smoker (as Doflamingo used him as punching bag after Law stole his heart and Luffy defeated Doflamingo).

I think you should rephrase that because we know several Supernova have 'taken on' all three of those forces (Kuma the Shichibukai and Kizaru the WG Marine Admiral at Sabaody pretty much tangled with ALL the Supernova, and several of the SN have futzed with either BM or Kaido or both at this point), so maybe 'triumphed over' should be the phrasing of what Luffy's accomplished compared to the rest of them since the rest can hardly boast any victories in that department.

So, what do you guys think? Is Luffy now stronger that Ace ever was? Has he fulfilled the promise he made to both Sabo and Ace that he would be stronger than either of them? Is he the strongest of the Worst Generation bar Blackbeard?

Ace stood up to Blackbeard fairly well and we didn't really get to see how Luffy did since he was in such a hurry to get out of Impel Down, but I get the feeling he'd have fared poorer than Ace. If we don't consider Ace advancing in the time-skip, I'd say yeah, he's probably stronger than Ace as of NOW, but not if Ace was alive to keep training.