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    A One Piece Rabbit Hole of Theories - The Straw Hat Under Marie Geoise

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    • Captain M
      Captain M
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      Captain M
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      Captain M
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      The following ideas and connections are not all of my own making. This post comes from discussion here, on Reddit and on /a/. I’ve added a few thoughts and insights of my own, but this is mostly me putting some broader discussion on plausible theories together into a readable format. Mainly, we’re looking at the last two pages of chapter 906 and how they connect to other bits of lore and unsolved mysteries in One Piece’s word. Let’s see if I can make this all make sense. Images provided in the spoiler tags under each section, let’s go.

      Observation: the room under Marie Geoise containing the straw hat has three key features we’re going to use for this set of theories. 1) There are seven openings in the wall. 2) There’s a symbol similar but different to the World Government’s flag carved into the wall above the openings, and 3) It’s cold enough inside that everything has iced over. All of these and the presence of the straw hat are important.

      !

      Let’s start making connections. That not-quite World Government symbol on the wall looks familiar, and we have seen it before. It was on Oars’ clothes, which we can assume he was wearing at his time of death around five hundred years ago. That means its old. Not Void Century old, but old none the less, possibly a prototype for the current design. And it also means that Oars probably worked with the World Government when he was alive. We’ll be coming back to that.

      !

      We now know that whatever is in the straw hat room under Marie Geoise is at least five hundred years old, maybe older.

      Alright, now we know there’s some pretty ancient history in here, let’s tie it to the moon. First we have to assume the straw hat here and Luffy’s straw hat are connected. Not a huge leap, considering their identical designs, save for the size difference, and Luffy’s wanted poster being brought to the Marie Geoise hat.

      I feel safe in extrapolating that Luffy’s hat has some connection to the Will of D. Shanks isn’t a D. (that we know of) but Gol D. Roger, at this time the oldest known owner of the hat, definitely was. It’s been theorised for some time that the people of the D are connected to the moon, but here’s a quick refresher on that for the uninitiated: Enel found the ruins of an ancient civilisation on the moon in his cover story - wall carvings in these ruins showed humans with angelic wings, similar to the Sky Islanders. It could be the exaggerated proportions of the carvings at work, but the moon people’s wings seem smaller than the Sky Islanders’, indicating the trait could be minimised or bred out completely over time. The theory goes that that people of the D are descendants of the moon people who totally lost their wings, unlike the Sky Islanders, who only had them reduced. What connects the two? A theory that the D. isn’t an initial but a glyph representing a half moon, and the cover of Volume 27, which depicts Luffy with a pair of sky islander angel wings behind him, winking at the reader. It could just be a bit of whimsy for the cover, or it could be some of the most subtle foreshadowing ever.

      !

      So the Will of D relates to the legacy of the moon people and the small straw hat relates to the Will of D. That is all speculative, so dismiss it if you like, but the pieces do seem to fit together.

      New factor: the Oharan globe. Now this thing, seemingly depicting One Piece’s earth with six satellites, one of which has a sub-satellite of its own. So seven other celestial bodies depicted with One Piece’s earth. I think we can dismiss out of hand the idea that the planet actually has six moons. No image of the night sky has shown more than one, and every mention of the moon is singular only, no plurals. So it’s just a geocentric interpretation of the solar system then? Maybe. But maybe not.

      One Piece’s world has only one moon. But what if it used to have more? The Oharan scholars are archaeologists before anything else, not astronomers. They deal in ancient history, with a specific affinity for things like the Void Century and other records that have been lost to time. Their infamous globe could represent not how the world is but how it was, based on what they found in their research.

      !

      Assuming the above is correct, the world of One Piece had seven moons (counting the sub-satellite, since they are a scientifically plausible thing) in ancient times. At least one of these moons was populated. We established before that the Will of D and the small straw hat represent the legacy of the moon kingdom, but what if we instead say they represent the legacy of a moon kingdom instead. Then they and the Sky Islanders can both be descended from moon races - different moon races - without having to get into awkward wing size genetics, and the Volume 27 cover art still works to associate the two as being descended from moon people, just two different races of moon people now. One moon being populated leads to two, and from two it’s not such a leap to say they all were. Seven moon races. Seven openings in the wall in the room under Marie Geoise. The straw hat represents a moon race. There’s a straw hat in one of the wall openings. Ergo, each opening represents a moon and a moon race.

      EDIT: Theackwardstation suggested another excellent piece of evidence that there were several moons in the past: Duke Dogstorm calls Sulongs the Minks' "true form," which is a little odd for something they only have the opportunity to be once or twice a month. On a world with at least six visible moons, however, it's not hard to believe they could have been able to stay Sulong most if not all of the time, and only then does the "true form" statement really fit. Additionally, given how wild and dangerous they would have been in a near-constant Sulong state, it could explain the reputation the Minks have managed to get for being killing machines despite no one in the present day really knowing them and them being actually pretty friendly in person.

      Logical enough so far.

      To say the World Government destroyed six out of seven moons though, is a bit more of a stretch. We have to extrapolate and guess more for that. The World Government did something bad during the Void Century. We know it has to be pretty shocking, since they’re pretty open about things like genocide and slavery today. Perhaps they destroyed six out of seven moons and genocided the moon races to the best of their ability. Now that’s the kind of enormous-scale atrocity you’d want to keep out of the history books.

      But why?
      This is where I feel most likely to be wrong, but it could simply be the tides. Seven moons would play havoc with them and cause all kinds of destructive effects, and if the World Government wanted to tame the seas that would be an obstacle.

      Or it could even have been just a survival thing. It gets unscientific here, but ‘planet aligning’ events are a common trope, and a seven moon planet could have the same thing happen with aligning moons. Seven moons in a row could have created a tide high enough to create an apocalyptic, biblical flood. In such an event, the only safe places would be Fishman Island, equipped to survive underwater, Marie Geoise, 10,000 meters above sea level, and with the moon civilisations. It’s possible, even, that the Redline was created for the sole purpose of surviving this high tide, employing the help of the Continent Pullers.

      Wait why’s that a plural? For the sake of this post I’ll be considering Continent Puller a separate classification to giant. Their increased size and distinctive horns (more on those traits later as well) set them apart. It could be a mutation unique to Oars’ line, or it could be a whole separate but extinct species, but they are definitely a different thing to your average giant and deserve to be considered as such.

      We also know that Oars’ ‘Continent Puller’ title isn’t just empty hype. Official art for One Piece Magazine shows Oars in his prime pulling a whole landmass behind him with chains. The epithet seems to be a real indication of strength.

      !

      So we have a group of super-Giants with strength enough to literally change the face of the planet, we have the corpse of one of these turn up wearing an ancient World Government insignia, and we have a World Government with a very convenient flood-proof holy land atop a 10,000m high pangeaic continent. There pieces all line up, right? This makes sense.

      As an aside that won’t tie into much else here, interesting that the Ancient Weapon Pluton is a ship. Maybe it was an ark the early World Government used to survive the lunar floods while the Redline was under construction. It fits with the theory that Noah is Pluton, especially considering Noah’s placement, as if it was abandoned and scuttled to sink to Fishman Island when the World Government disembarked from it a final time onto their new holy land. And if the seafaring races that formed the World Government had one ancient weapon, and we know the underwater races of Fishman Island held another in Poseidon, does that mean the moon races must have had Uranus, to keep a balance of power? And to go a little further down that line, symbolically, Poseidon is named for an ocean god and Uranus for one of the skies. Pluton, for a god of the underworld, doesn’t fit as cleanly, but the genocidal nature of the World Government helps it a bit.

      So the World Government conquered the tides once, working with the Continent Pullers and abandoning their Ancient Weapon in the process. Then they got cocky, got caught up in their taste of godlike power and decided to put a stop to the lunar floods once and for all.

      It’s hard to say exactly how they did this. Perhaps Uranus was captured and turned on the moon races. Maybe it also goes back to the Continent Pullers. Could something like Fishman Island’s ancient and treasured Energy Steroid have been used to bump their power up from ‘continent pulling’ to ‘planetoid destroying?’ Again, this area of the theory is pretty vague and subject to change as most information comes up.

      Regardless, the Moon War was fought and won in the Void Century, each of the moon kingdoms’ kings caught and killed, and a space made for each of them under Marie Geoise, each space with a memento of the moon king on top, such as a straw hat. Then all record of the Moon War was erased. The Continent Pullers, however many of them there actually were, were betrayed by the World Government and killed. This may have been just for the cover up, but it could also be because the World Government lost control of them after souping them up to fight the Moon War. Oars is said to have frozen to death, yes, but his body shows signs of numerous serious injuries, and it’s hard to tell what’s bits that just didn’t preserve properly and what happened before he died. Or being stripped of protective gear and left for dead on the Ice Continent was his execution. Either way it’s important that he died there specifically, and we’ll talk about why in a minute.

      First, let’s talk about the Continent Pullers being made victims of the Void Century, because there are a couple of little symbolic nods in that direction to think of. The first was Volume 48’s cover. The same way Luffy was framed in front of Sky Islander wings on the Volume 28 cover, Luffy is here framed in front of Oars’ fangs, making it look like he has horns. Not unlike (but also not totally like, to be fair) the distinctive horns the Continent Pullers all have. Similarly, Little Oars Jr, the descendent of the original Oars and our only known living Continent Puller, was made sympathetic through his friendship with Ace. Ace, of course, carries with Will of D and even weaved Oars Jr. a straw hat in the Wano style. Horns on Luffy, a straw hat on Oars Jr. Not exact matches in either case, but similar enough to connect the two. As with the Sky Islanders, an association is being built here.

      !

      Alright, I wanted to talk about the significance of Oars dying in an icy place, and not just because Thriller Bark couldn’t have happened if he didn’t. And I hadn’t got to why it’s important that the room under Marie Geoise is a freezer yet either. But to talk about that, first we have to talk about Punk Hazard.

      The World Government was doing giantification experiments on Punk Hazard, among other things. We’ve been told that repeatedly. They want giant soldiers because the strength of Giants is unmatched, and they would probably want to move from there to Continent Puller soldiers, knowing how effective they were in the Moon War. Wanting to go from Giants to Continent Pullers isn’t conjecture either - the warning signs outside Punk Hazard feature a skull with distinct Continent Puller horns on it, and Luffy’s group discovers a skull too large to belong to a giant. We can’t see it in full, but it seems to have a curved horn coming off it as well. Continent Pullers were obviously part of the plan. There were Continent Puller remains on the island. If they worked with and then killed the Continent Pullers it makes sense that the World Government would know how powerful they are and be trying to recapture that power, and where to find remains for genetic material to work with.

      !

      As another aside, Kaido is a Giant sized creature with Continent Puller horns. He’s referred to in ever case as a creature, not a human, and has the kind of nigh-invulnerability you would probably want a soldier to have, and the nihilistic attitude of a man traumatised by an upbringing of horrific genetic experiments. And would it work thematically for a human lab rat to have the affinity for animals that he has? Of course. Kaido could very well be a failed and escaped attempt to genetically engineer new Continent Pullers.

      !

      Anyway, we see that Punk Hazard has a large cold storage area full up with the corpses of Giants. The World Government is savvy enough to store Giant bloodline elements they find. It makes sense then that Oars was intentionally left to die or killed and then moved to somewhere he would be preserved for later research. And then forgotten about. Or the lab was abandoned after a Punk Hazard style accident until Moria found it. Or Oars escaped the attempt on his life and fled into the icy wastes where he died alone and lost. There’s honestly a few different ways it could have played out. But the bottom line is that the World Government, going back hundreds of years, is savvy enough to store the remains of powerful entities so they can try to genetically recreate them later.

      !

      So perhaps the room under Marie Geoise isn’t just a symbolic shrine of victory over the moon kings. Maybe each of those openings in the wall doesn’t just have a keepsake from the fallen enemy inside, but the actual corpse of the enemy. The crypt is kept frozen to preserve the bodies for later use.

      And what later use is that? Well we were actually just told exactly what. Dr Vegapunk’s last two big projects were cyborging Kuma and creating the Pacifistas. The Pacifistas are human corpses combined with cyborg parts to make humanoid weapons. The cyborging of Kuma is interesting largely because Kuma has been made into a mindlessly obedient killing machine, but hasn’t been stripped of his Warlord title. He’s an experiment, to see if such a machine can still bring the intimidation factor the Seven Warlords require to keep their rank. See, the World Government would want something with that fear factor to keep their member states in line and maintain the power balance with the Emperors, but they’d also love something more predictable and easy to control than the privateers they use now. Kuma is a proof of concept for them having their cake and eating it too. He’s the prototype, not for Pacifistas, but for something much worse.

      Issho said in chapter 905 that Vegapunk’s latest breakthrough makes the Seven Warlords obsolete. Not the Pacifistas, not Navy battleships or Admirals or anything else, the Warlords specifically. My theory is that Vegapunk plans to use technology similar to the Pacifistas’ to resurrect the preserved moon kings as Kuma-style monsters. Seven kings, seven Warlords. Maybe this was their endgame from the start, and Issho just wasn’t privy to it. Seven new warriors with the durability and obedience of the Pacifistas, but that keep the powers they had in life (like Kuma presumably must have, to be allowed to be distinct from a Pacifista.)

      That’s all the relevant connecting of dots and theorising I have for you today. Some of the stuff here makes pretty huge leaps of logic and extrapolates hard, and some later bits are theories based on theories, but the rabbit hole of lore fragments that connect to the room under Marie Geoise runs deep, and you’re welcome to draw different conclusions and imagine different possible solutions for the mysteries here. I'm confident in the story elements I've connected here, just not entirely in the way I've connected them.

      Thank you for reading, and I look forward to being wrong about 90% of everything here.

      Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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      • andre
        andre
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        andre
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        andre
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        Great, great theory. I'm mostly iffy on the openings being tombs, themselves, since they don't seem large enough (and I don't just mean the openings themselves, but the area under and above them) to house folks as large as whoever would be needed to wear that hat, especially if they were continent puller size. It seems the hat is closer to the type of thing a Whitebeard or Big Mom sized person would wear, which could tie into the semi-giant sized mystery as well.

        Check out my podcast for conversations about Greatness in anime, sports, music, and whatever else we can think of.

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        • LightningAce
          LightningAce
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          LightningAce
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          LightningAce
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          Problem with Noah being Pluton is Robin would have surely known/mentioned this fact because she's read the Alabasta Poneglyph which details the location of it.
          Also Franky was there, and he has seen the blueprints for Pluton and as such a master shipwright like him would recognize Pluton right away.

          Nice find on that symbol on Oars though, maybe it means something or it's just a similar looking cross thingy. We'll have to wait and see

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          • Captain M
            Captain M @LightningAce
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            Captain M
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            Captain M
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            @LightningAce:

            Problem with Noah being Pluton is Robin would have surely known/mentioned this fact because she's read the Alabasta Poneglyph which details the location of it.
            Also Franky was there, and he has seen the blueprints for Pluton and as such a master shipwright like him would recognize Pluton right away.

            Nice find on that symbol on Oars though, maybe it means something or it's just a similar looking cross thingy. We'll have to wait and see

            I may be wrong since I'm saying this from memory, but didn't the Alabasa Poneglyph detail the location of the Pluton blueprints, not the ship itself? You make a strong point about Franky tho, I don't think I can explain that away.

            Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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            • M
              meighs @Captain M
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              M
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              meighs
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              New member here, though I've done much lurking, and I registered an account to say this:
              You mentioned the symbol on Oars' clothes, the horns which turn up in multiple places and how the latter may relate to Kaido. There's also the fact that Oars' belt has three skulls. As far as I know this only turns up in two other places: on the belt of Little Oars Jr. and on Blackbeard's flag. Blackbeard's flag also has the 4 crossbones just like Kaido's. In a roundabout way that links them too and that in turn may relate to the whole thing about Blackbeard having an unusual body.
              Though it's hardly evidence of anything it does generate some more layers of suggestion

              dot dot dot the words

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              • Captain M
                Captain M @meighs
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                Captain M
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                @meighs:

                New member here, though I've done much lurking, and I registered an account to say this:
                You mentioned the symbol on Oars' clothes, the horns which turn up in multiple places and how the latter may relate to Kaido. There's also the fact that Oars' belt has three skulls. As far as I know this only turns up in two other places: on the belt of Little Oars Jr. and on Blackbeard's flag. Blackbeard's flag also has the 4 crossbones just like Kaido's. In a roundabout way that links them too and that in turn may relate to the whole thing about Blackbeard having an unusual body.
                Though it's hardly evidence of anything it does generate some more layers of suggestion

                Excellent spot! It's a pretty well established theory that Blackbeard might be a chimera, with the three skulls representing the different parts his body might be made of, hence the ability to have multiple devil fruits, so if we're connecting him, Kaido and World Government genetic research, could chimeraism (chimeraness? chimeraic nature?) be a side effect of one of their experiments? The lore all runs so deep!

                Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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                • M
                  meighs @Captain M
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                  @Captain:

                  http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/524/tumblr_o16n2kBlpX1ta3qyvo1_1280.jpg

                  I can't stop giggling at this picture. Chimerism is an actual word so that one?

                  When I noticed the three skulls thing I also noticed that Blackbeard has a somehwat similar body shape to Oars, but that might very well not be anything important. Anyway, if the three skulls means anything I'd at least expect it to mean that Blackbeard has some link to Oars, be it genetic or otherwise. As for the links to Kaido, I really don't know, I find theorising pretty difficult. Not the thinking up of theories itself but attaching any weight to a single one. it makes my head all whirly. I'd hope and expect to learn something about Kaido's history in Wano and then link it to the flag, and following form that to Blackbeard. Or I'll leave it to you. You seem to have knack for it. Well done, is what I'm saying.

                  dot dot dot the words

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                  • Seafarer33
                    Seafarer33
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                    Seafarer33
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                    Seafarer33
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                    Nice catch on the alcove symbol, I'd been wondering it had already appeared anywhere else. Tying the Punk Hazard skull to Continent Puller(s) is very interesting as well, I'd completely forgotten about it. A well developed theory and pleasant read altogether.

                    If I had to criticize, I'd say the seven moons part and their destruction especially is unnecessary and overkill. Reasons:

                    On destroying moons

                    • In dinosaur extinction theories, a single large asteroid is considered to have had dramatic impacts on Earth. Meteor shower six moons' worth of rock debris on the surface of the One Piece planet and you're looking at not just a large flood, but possibly the total extinction of all life. Even assuming civilization did somehow pull through and prospered again in a mere 800 years, I would expect the land to bear marks in pretty much every region of the world. And by that I mean craters several miles wide - on Earth some of these still exist even after millions of years. Some of the larger debris could even still be orbiting the planet to this day like an asteroid belt visible from the ground. But until proven otherwise we don't see any of that in One Piece.
                    • Until now the ancient weapons were said to be potent enough to destroy islands. They're apparently a relic of the old world, the most powerful and terrific thing to have ever existed, yet some posters consider that even using them to pierce the Redline is too much of a stretch. Now your theory implies that at some point in history, someone as had a planet killer in their hands. How does it fit the picture ?

                    On the moon people

                    • With how genetics work in One Piece (i.e. however fits Oda's need), it would be acceptable that the D. people and sky islanders share a common ancestry but evolved differently, possibly as a result of advanced science / powers / whatever they had. Some could have retained their wings while others would have lost them altogether.
                    • A single moon people could just as well have included seven kingdoms/tribes/ethnies, or split into seven different kingdoms / state cities after they settled on the planet. There would still be seven branches among the moon people, but they would all have come from a single place

                    How does this change your theory ?
                    I can still see the descendants of the moon people settling on this world for whatever reason and prospering until they are met with hostility by its original inhabitants. The "moon wars" would have been them vs the moon people, and everything that derives from this still stand. The part which I'd say doesn't hold its ground under these premises is the harnessing of tides. The purpose of the land pullers is still unclear, but I do agree they could have been a tool/servants of the world government at some point in the blank century, and helped reshape the world.

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                    • Captain M
                      Captain M @meighs
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                      Captain M
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                      Captain M
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                      @meighs:

                      I can't stop giggling at this picture. Chimerism is an actual word so that one?

                      When I noticed the three skulls thing I also noticed that Blackbeard has a somehwat similar body shape to Oars, but that might very well not be anything important. Anyway, if the three skulls means anything I'd at least expect it to mean that Blackbeard has some link to Oars, be it genetic or otherwise. As for the links to Kaido, I really don't know, I find theorising pretty difficult. Not the thinking up of theories itself but attaching any weight to a single one. it makes my head all whirly. I'd hope and expect to learn something about Kaido's history in Wano and then link it to the flag, and following form that to Blackbeard. Or I'll leave it to you. You seem to have knack for it. Well done, is what I'm saying.

                      Chimerism! I had a feeling I was close, but I couldn't be bothered googling it lol

                      The body shape I'm hesitant to take into account to too huge a degree, I think that's just part of Oda's style. Almost every major female character has the same body type, and we don't need tinfoil hat moonwar theories to explain that. But the three skull thing is something that feels like it could be a lot more deliberate and meaningful, but it's hard to say what just yet. Like you said, Kaido's actual backstory should give us a lot more to work with when we get it.

                      And thank you! I don't actually consider myself the best theorist in the world, I'm just trying to connect the dots. Like I said, I'm pretty sure I'm connecting the right things - there's too many overlapping symbols for this to be a coincidence - but I fully expect Oda to blow my ideas out of the water for the whys and hows of it all. Incidentally, I'm keen to see what Greg thinks about the straw hat room and how it connects to everything. He's been talking up dropping some big ideas on the podcast tomorrow, and after the cake theory I'm willing to bet any money he's closer to the truth than I am!

                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                      @Seafarer33:

                      Nice catch on the alcove symbol, I'd been wondering it had already appeared anywhere else. Tying the Punk Hazard skull to Continent Puller(s) is very interesting as well, I'd completely forgotten about it. A well developed theory and pleasant read altogether.

                      If I had to criticize, I'd say the seven moons part and their destruction especially is unnecessary and overkill. Reasons:

                      On destroying moons

                      • In dinosaur extinction theories, a single large asteroid is considered to have had dramatic impacts on Earth. Meteor shower six moons' worth of rock debris on the surface of the One Piece planet and you're looking at not just a large flood, but possibly the total extinction of all life. Even assuming civilization did somehow pull through and prospered again in a mere 800 years, I would expect the land to bear marks in pretty much every region of the world. And by that I mean craters several miles wide - on Earth some of these still exist even after millions of years. Some of the larger debris could even still be orbiting the planet to this day like an asteroid belt visible from the ground. But until proven otherwise we don't see any of that in One Piece.
                      • Until now the ancient weapons were said to be potent enough to destroy islands. They're apparently a relic of the old world, the most powerful and terrific thing to have ever existed, yet some posters consider that even using them to pierce the Redline is too much of a stretch. Now your theory implies that at some point in history, someone as had a planet killer in their hands. How does it fit the picture ?

                      On the moon people

                      • With how genetics work in One Piece (i.e. however fits Oda's need), it would be acceptable that the D. people and sky islanders share a common ancestry but evolved differently, possibly as a result of advanced science / powers / whatever they had. Some could have retained their wings while others would have lost them altogether.
                      • A single moon people could just as well have included seven kingdoms/tribes/ethnies, or split into seven different kingdoms / state cities after they settled on the planet. There would still be seven branches among the moon people, but they would all have come from a single place

                      How does this change your theory ?
                      I can still see the descendants of the moon people settling on this world for whatever reason and prospering until they are met with hostility by its original inhabitants. The "moon wars" would have been them vs the moon people, and everything that derives from this still stand. The part which I'd say doesn't hold its ground under these premises is the harnessing of tides. The purpose of the land pullers is still unclear, but I do agree they could have been a tool/servants of the world government at some point in the blank century, and helped reshape the world.

                      All excellent points, especially on destroying moons. That part is definitely one of my biggest leaps, but I think the Ohara globe is really interesting and I'd love for it to mean something beyond 'geocentric model lol' so I tried hard to work it in. We need a lot more information about the Void Century and the downfall of the moon civilisation we have seen before we can call any theory more than a wild guess, totally. And I agree totally that Oda would have to write damn hard to get around the power scaling nightmare that would be introducing planet buster tech!

                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                      @andre:

                      Great, great theory. I'm mostly iffy on the openings being tombs, themselves, since they don't seem large enough (and I don't just mean the openings themselves, but the area under and above them) to house folks as large as whoever would be needed to wear that hat, especially if they were continent puller size. It seems the hat is closer to the type of thing a Whitebeard or Big Mom sized person would wear, which could tie into the semi-giant sized mystery as well.

                      The first reply and I almost forgot to respond, sorry! That is a good point as well. My best response would be that I don't think the moon people were Continent Puller sized, the ruins Enel saw certainly don't suggest they were any bigger than "normal" One Piece human size. But yeah, it's still pretty tight in those holes.

                      If I really wanted fanwank around the lack of space in the straw hat room for real crypts, I might suggest that the other holes contain actual bodies sitting upright and cross legged, and we just can't see them. Kind of like how you see Buddhist mummies preserved upright in their apparent eternal meditation, but much more sinister. Why's there no one in the straw hat hole? Because the straw hat guy was the first to be taken out of cold storage and Vegapunk'd, that's why. But I feel that's stretching it just a little, so I'm taking the lack of crypt space as a decently reasoned hole in the theory for now.

                      Apologies to meighs if they get pinged a third time by the auto-post merge for this, if I'd realised I had more to reply to sooner I'd definitely have multiquoted!

                      Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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                      • Seafarer33
                        Seafarer33 @Captain M
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                        @Captain:

                        We need a lot more information about the Void Century and the downfall of the moon civilisation we have seen before we can call any theory more than a wild guess, totally

                        The moon civilisation / sky islanders link is something I'm really curious about. Such as, is the sky islanders' existence known to the world at large other than the occasional winged wanderer (Urouge for example) whom no-one would look at twice in a world teeming with freaks and oddities ? Is the world government aware of their existence ? Are some sky islands affiliated with it ?

                        I seem to remember, all the way back in the Skpiea arc, that someone mentioned there was a safer way to reach the sea of clouds than the knock-up stream. Does this imply there are frequent exchanges between surface dwellers and the sky islanders ? Or are they considered legend, or even altogether ignored, by the majority of the population ?

                        One thing does make me doubt the link of moon people / sky islanders with the D. people, though : based on what we learned in Skypiea, Shandora was originally a surface city. For all we know the same might be true of other parts of the Ancient Kingdom, making the sky islanders a separate people whose ancestors did originally come from the moon (this much is clear after Enel's cover story) but who have minded their own business all along. The Ancient Kingdom / World Government conflict could just as well have been a surface-only thing.

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                        • Captain M
                          Captain M @Seafarer33
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                          @Seafarer33:

                          The moon civilisation / sky islanders link is something I'm really curious about. Such as, is the sky islanders' existence known to the world at large other than the occasional winged wanderer (Urouge for example) whom no-one would look at twice in a world teeming with freaks and oddities ? Is the world government aware of their existence ? Are some sky islands affiliated with it ?

                          I seem to remember, all the way back in the Skpiea arc, that someone mentioned there was a safer way to reach the sea of clouds than the knock-up stream. Does this imply there are frequent exchanges between surface dwellers and the sky islanders ? Or are they considered legend, or even altogether ignored, by the majority of the population ?

                          One thing does make me doubt the link of moon people / sky islanders with the D. people, though : based on what we learned in Skypiea, Shandora was originally a surface city. For all we know the same might be true of other parts of the Ancient Kingdom, making the sky islanders a separate people whose ancestors did originally come from the moon (this much is clear after Enel's cover story) but who have minded their own business all along. The Ancient Kingdom / World Government conflict could just as well have been a surface-only thing.

                          Yeah there's a fair bit left unanswered about Sky Islanders, huh? You would suppose they're considered rare, but not unheard of. Rare enough the human auction houses don't even both to list them, similar to Three-Eyes. Or there are just enough weird bodies in the world of One Piece that no one looks twice at the occasional set of wings. Hard to say until Oda gives us more.

                          Was it confirmed that Shandora had anything to do with the Ancient Kingdom, beyond housing a Poneglyph? I don't remember it being said, but my memory is far from perfect and I'm writing this up as I'm about to sign off for the night, so I don't really have time to flip back through the Skypiea volumes and check.

                          Assuming any other part of my theory is even close to correct, I would say the Ancient Kingdom was one of, or an alliance of, the moon kingdoms. Of course it was inferred that it was planetary, but it wasn't outright stated, to my memory. Oh, and if it was the Ancient Kingdom that commissioned the Poneglyphs as a way to preserve their history after their destruction, and the secret to creating Poneglyphs is the sole property of the royal line of Wano, that could mean the people there also have a little lunar heritage, so there's likely to be new info to either encourage or deny this line of thinking there.

                          Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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                          • vlad Dracul
                            vlad Dracul @Seafarer33
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                            great theory. the connection to oars and the symbol inside the vault is superb.

                            i also like the moon part of your theory, but it is really drastic and unimaginable that the WG could destroy the moons
                            there is only 100 years of history missing, but some historic events or facts before the void century should still be known.

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                            • theackwardstation
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                              This theory is a little wild for me to go onboard… but there's something I'd like to mention regarding the hypothesis that the other moons were destroyed in the past... the minks.

                              It's interesting how Inuarashi mentions Sulong as their true form, which is strange considering it's a transformation that happens only during nights with a full moon. However, maybe in the past the minks were in their Sulong forms all the time because the moons together could provide the same effect, so they were reduced to this "lesser" form after the incident.

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                                That was a nice read. Good eye on that connection to Oars symbol.
                                But I was never sold on the multiple moons, I think those are planets.

                                If I was to add a point of view I'd say I think the giant freezers under MG might not be storing corpses.
                                Dofla knows that it's possible to become immortal with the Ope Ope fruit, so maybe what's/who's under MG is alive and that's a jail. The extreme cold would stop them from moving and becoming free.

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                                  BattleFranky69
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                                  Just had a thought, and forgive me if this was already mentioned, but about that seven moons thing and the cross symbol on Oars’ loincloth being similar to the WG flag with the five orbs…what if it is meant to represent 7 orbs but the 2D perspective just obscured the two in the front and back? And the symbolism was just lost to history? There may be more to it but that number 7 just got the gears turning.

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                                  • Seafarer33
                                    Seafarer33 @Captain M
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                                    @Captain:

                                    Was it confirmed that Shandora had anything to do with the Ancient Kingdom, beyond housing a Poneglyph?

                                    I skimmed through the relevant volumes, here's what I got.

                                    • In 272, Robin finds a wall of poneglyphs carved inside a ruined house. She states that the Poneglyph of the great bell were brought to Shandora - not created there - and that the city faced an enemy and falled protecting it.
                                    • In 290 (Norland flashback), Calgara states again that the city falled trying to protect the Poneglyph.
                                    • Shandora's fall would have occurred right after the Void Century (Montblanc's lifetime : 400 years before present day / fall of Shandora : 400 years before Norland's arrival to Jaya).

                                    I don't think it was ever stated explicitly, but I guess this means Shandora was an affiliate/ally of the Ancient Kingdom - or maybe a part of it, but remote enough that it wasn't wiped out immediately - that survived through the Void Century long enough to take part in the Poneglyph effort, similar to the Kozuki clan of Wano.

                                    This does raise a few questions.

                                    • If Shandorah fell (presumably at the hands of the soon-to-become-World Government), then why the hell did its poneglyph remain untouched ? Indestructible they might be, but whoever went through the pain of destroying a city to remove it from public knowledge could certainly have taken an extra step and bury the Poneglyph, or take it away, or send an expedition later to finish the job.
                                    • How come the World Governement hasn't been hoarding Poneglyphs over the past 8 centuries? If they're so afraid of what these artefacts may one day reveal, you'd think they would collect as many as possible, lock them in a crypt deep below Pangea castle - instead of some oversized hat - and throw away the key. Or are the Poneglyphs hidden so well and in places so dangerous that it's just easier to go after anyone foolish enough to research them?
                                    • Shandorah falling some 800 years ago implies that their enemies could and did reach Jaya at that time. What happened during and after the Void Century that could have made it an unbelievable legend some 400 years later, and Jaya a place only bold navigators like Norland could reach? Is this part of the World Government's effort to hide their tracks, going as far as to erase any documents - maps, books, … - that would mention the island? Or does it have to do with Grand Line making travels so hellishly difficult that even the World Government didn't bother sending anyone afterwards?

                                    @vlad:

                                    there is only 100 years of history missing, but some historic events or facts before the void century should still be known.

                                    This got me thinking. As you say, "only" 100 years are unaccounted for. If so, someone like Robin, who is well-versed in history, should be able to deduce, or at least make theories on, who and where the Ancient Kingdom could possibly have been based on the geopolitical map of the world such as it was before and after the Void Century. Which nations joined the World Government, which ones went missing, you don't even need a poneglyph. The archeologists of O'hara probably did exactly that to help further their research.
                                    And indeed, if the Void Century had seen changes as dramatic as destroying moons or moving continents around, surely that wouldn't have gone unnoticed either. I feel it's the sort of event that's too big to be just shoved underneath the carpet of history.

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                                    • Game And Guy
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                                      I didn't read the OP just because it's illegible on the cp9 layout

                                      buuuut I just want Enel to bust into mariejois and break some shit up and everything in space has to do with the hat

                                      You are on a quest to become the Pirate Prince, and you decide your fate!

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                                        GolD.Ace22
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                                        I feel confident at this point that the "StrawHat" treasure found in Mariejois and the StrawHat worn by Luffy and Roger have the exact same powers. I think that the StrawHat in Mariejois used to belong to Joy Boy. And I feel like both this hat and the current StrawHat worn by Luffy grant the user the ability to "Hear the Voice of All Things".

                                        Right now my only evidence for this theory is the knowledge that Joy Boy, Roger, and Luffy seem to all have this ability to "Hear the Voice of All Things". However, I feel confident that I'm correct here.
                                        =D

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                                        • Gia Sado
                                          Gia Sado @Captain M
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                                          @Captain:

                                          I may be wrong since I'm saying this from memory, but didn't the Alabasa Poneglyph detail the location of the Pluton blueprints, not the ship itself? You make a strong point about Franky tho, I don't think I can explain that away.

                                          Its the reverse. Its the location of the ship. It would be impossible for the poneglyph to point to the blueprints because its transportable. Franky destroyed the blueprints but Pluton still exists somewhere in the world.

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                                          • Long John Silvers Rayleigh
                                            Long John Silvers Rayleigh @Seafarer33
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                                            @Seafarer33:

                                            I skimmed through the relevant volumes, here's what I got.

                                            • In 272, Robin finds a wall of poneglyphs carved inside a ruined house. She states that the Poneglyph of the great bell were brought to Shandora - not created there - and that the city faced an enemy and falled protecting it.
                                            • In 290 (Norland flashback), Calgara states again that the city falled trying to protect the Poneglyph.
                                            • Shandora's fall would have occurred right after the Void Century (Montblanc's lifetime : 400 years before present day / fall of Shandora : 400 years before Norland's arrival to Jaya).

                                            I don't think it was ever stated explicitly, but I guess this means Shandora was an affiliate/ally of the Ancient Kingdom - or maybe a part of it, but remote enough that it wasn't wiped out immediately - that survived through the Void Century long enough to take part in the Poneglyph effort, similar to the Kozuki clan of Wano.

                                            This does raise a few questions.

                                            • If Shandorah fell (presumably at the hands of the soon-to-become-World Government), then why the hell did its poneglyph remain untouched ? Indestructible they might be, but whoever went through the pain of destroying a city to remove it from public knowledge could certainly have taken an extra step and bury the Poneglyph, or take it away, or send an expedition later to finish the job.
                                            • How come the World Governement hasn't been hoarding Poneglyphs over the past 8 centuries? If they're so afraid of what these artefacts may one day reveal, you'd think they would collect as many as possible, lock them in a crypt deep below Pangea castle - instead of some oversized hat - and throw away the key. Or are the Poneglyphs hidden so well and in places so dangerous that it's just easier to go after anyone foolish enough to research them?
                                            • Shandorah falling some 800 years ago implies that their enemies could and did reach Jaya at that time. What happened during and after the Void Century that could have made it an unbelievable legend some 400 years later, and Jaya a place only bold navigators like Norland could reach? Is this part of the World Government's effort to hide their tracks, going as far as to erase any documents - maps, books, … - that would mention the island? Or does it have to do with Grand Line making travels so hellishly difficult that even the World Government didn't bother sending anyone afterwards?

                                            This got me thinking. As you say, "only" 100 years are unaccounted for. If so, someone like Robin, who is well-versed in history, should be able to deduce, or at least make theories on, who and where the Ancient Kingdom could possibly have been based on the geopolitical map of the world such as it was before and after the Void Century. Which nations joined the World Government, which ones went missing, you don't even need a poneglyph. The archeologists of O'hara probably did exactly that to help further their research.
                                            And indeed, if the Void Century had seen changes as dramatic as destroying moons or moving continents around, surely that wouldn't have gone unnoticed either. I feel it's the sort of event that's too big to be just shoved underneath the carpet of history.

                                            Since it's called the blank century or void century I think there is just no history at all in that time period but I feel the WG cleared evidence of the ancient kingdom from before that time as well. I mean if there was info from 920 years ago readily available to anyone it'd kind of defeat the point of pretending the ancient kingdom never existed

                                            Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:

                                            So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?

                                            H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler

                                            Spoiler:

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                                            • Gia Sado
                                              Gia Sado @vlad Dracul
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                                              @vlad:

                                              great theory. the connection to oars and the symbol inside the vault is superb.

                                              i also like the moon part of your theory, but it is really drastic and unimaginable that the WG could destroy the moons
                                              there is only 100 years of history missing, but some historic events or facts before the void century should still be known.

                                              Unless Uranus is the ancient weapon made to do so, and/or the weapon that could bring them back.

                                              That being said this is an awesome theory. I really do hope Enel and the moon storyline does come back to play a part in the manga eventually. It would make Skypiea that much more rewarding to read in the future. I do have a feeling the giant structure behind Elbaf is Yggdrasil and it may play a part into this. Especially if Yggdrasil may actually lead us to other "realms" (just being so high it reaches space or something like that)

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                                              • Captain M
                                                Captain M @Gia Sado
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                                                The theories stated on the podcast brought in a lot about Joyboy, who I was kinda hesitant to mention because we know so little about him that he could fit into basically any Void Century theory at this point, but the also made a lot of good points about the connections between the straw hat and the Will of D and the way the hat has been depicted through the years, going all the way back to the prototype Romance Dawn chapters, so that's definitely worth a listen for anyone enjoying this kinda thing. And I feel slightly more validated than I probably should that the One Piece professionals covered similar territory about the room under Marie Geoise possibly being frozen to preserve the genetic material of someone or something the World Government once wiped out that they want to recreate and control. Like I said, I reckon I'm connecting the right things, but I'm probably 99% wrong at best on how and why they connect.

                                                @vlad:

                                                great theory. the connection to oars and the symbol inside the vault is superb.

                                                i also like the moon part of your theory, but it is really drastic and unimaginable that the WG could destroy the moons
                                                there is only 100 years of history missing, but some historic events or facts before the void century should still be known.

                                                Thank you! Honestly I wasn't the first to see the symbol on Oars, or most of the more important points here, I'm just trying to work out ways to tie everything together plausibly. I fully admit that the Moon War stuff contains some huge logical leaps, but we have so little info to work with, there's really no other way to theorise about it.

                                                @theackwardstation:

                                                This theory is a little wild for me to go onboard… but there's something I'd like to mention regarding the hypothesis that the other moons were destroyed in the past... the minks.

                                                It's interesting how Inuarashi mentions Sulong as their true form, which is strange considering it's a transformation that happens only during nights with a full moon. However, maybe in the past the minks were in their Sulong forms all the time because the moons together could provide the same effect, so they were reduced to this "lesser" form after the incident.

                                                That is a great point! It makes so much sense… you know, assuming anything else I said is right. I think the one issue would be how exhausting going Sulong is for Minks, since they can apparently fight themselves to death in a single night if they don't have the self control to shield their eyes from the moon and revert. Unless it's just evolution lowering their Sulong thresholds over the last few centuries, ancient Minks may have had very short lifespans.

                                                With your permission I might add the Sulong point to the OP, because it's a great little idea for moon theories.

                                                @FolhaS:

                                                That was a nice read. Good eye on that connection to Oars symbol.
                                                But I was never sold on the multiple moons, I think those are planets.

                                                If I was to add a point of view I'd say I think the giant freezers under MG might not be storing corpses.
                                                Dofla knows that it's possible to become immortal with the Ope Ope fruit, so maybe what's/who's under MG is alive and that's a jail. The extreme cold would stop them from moving and becoming free.

                                                Thanks! And yup, I thought the moons were just planets as well for a long time, it's only the idea that they aren't there anymore that makes it plausible, because the present obviously only has the one.

                                                I think your idea about what's in the freezer is a really interesting and plausible angle. It fits super well with Doffy's assertion that he could have taken control of the treasure under Marie Geoise if he'd had the Op Op Fruit - he wouldn't have needed to force someone to sacrifice themself for the immortality operation if he could just shambles himself into an already immortal body! I like that idea a lot.

                                                @BattleFranky69:

                                                Just had a thought, and forgive me if this was already mentioned, but about that seven moons thing and the cross symbol on Oars’ loincloth being similar to the WG flag with the five orbs…what if it is meant to represent 7 orbs but the 2D perspective just obscured the two in the front and back? And the symbolism was just lost to history? There may be more to it but that number 7 just got the gears turning.

                                                Oh that is an interesting perspective. Totally and entirely possible, though it's a little hard to say what the meaning of the older symbol in the straw hat room was meant to mean in that case.

                                                @Seafarer33:

                                                I skimmed through the relevant volumes, here's what I got.

                                                • In 272, Robin finds a wall of poneglyphs carved inside a ruined house. She states that the Poneglyph of the great bell were brought to Shandora - not created there - and that the city faced an enemy and falled protecting it.
                                                • In 290 (Norland flashback), Calgara states again that the city falled trying to protect the Poneglyph.
                                                • Shandora's fall would have occurred right after the Void Century (Montblanc's lifetime : 400 years before present day / fall of Shandora : 400 years before Norland's arrival to Jaya).

                                                I don't think it was ever stated explicitly, but I guess this means Shandora was an affiliate/ally of the Ancient Kingdom - or maybe a part of it, but remote enough that it wasn't wiped out immediately - that survived through the Void Century long enough to take part in the Poneglyph effort, similar to the Kozuki clan of Wano.

                                                This does raise a few questions.

                                                • If Shandorah fell (presumably at the hands of the soon-to-become-World Government), then why the hell did its poneglyph remain untouched ? Indestructible they might be, but whoever went through the pain of destroying a city to remove it from public knowledge could certainly have taken an extra step and bury the Poneglyph, or take it away, or send an expedition later to finish the job.
                                                • How come the World Governement hasn't been hoarding Poneglyphs over the past 8 centuries? If they're so afraid of what these artefacts may one day reveal, you'd think they would collect as many as possible, lock them in a crypt deep below Pangea castle - instead of some oversized hat - and throw away the key. Or are the Poneglyphs hidden so well and in places so dangerous that it's just easier to go after anyone foolish enough to research them?
                                                • Shandorah falling some 800 years ago implies that their enemies could and did reach Jaya at that time. What happened during and after the Void Century that could have made it an unbelievable legend some 400 years later, and Jaya a place only bold navigators like Norland could reach? Is this part of the World Government's effort to hide their tracks, going as far as to erase any documents - maps, books, … - that would mention the island? Or does it have to do with Grand Line making travels so hellishly difficult that even the World Government didn't bother sending anyone afterwards?

                                                This got me thinking. As you say, "only" 100 years are unaccounted for. If so, someone like Robin, who is well-versed in history, should be able to deduce, or at least make theories on, who and where the Ancient Kingdom could possibly have been based on the geopolitical map of the world such as it was before and after the Void Century. Which nations joined the World Government, which ones went missing, you don't even need a poneglyph. The archeologists of O'hara probably did exactly that to help further their research.
                                                And indeed, if the Void Century had seen changes as dramatic as destroying moons or moving continents around, surely that wouldn't have gone unnoticed either. I feel it's the sort of event that's too big to be just shoved underneath the carpet of history.

                                                Holy shit, that is a lot more left unanswered than I remembered. I guess my last Skypiea reread was a little too long ago. Uhh, assuming moon stuff has anything to do with anything, the Ancient Kingdom could be anything from a moon kingdom, an eathly ally of the moon people, or perhaps a group that rose up after the moon stuff to oppose the World Government and their atrocities, and were snuffed out for their trouble. For all the questions left hanging, we sure don't have a lot to work with.

                                                @GolD.Ace22:

                                                I feel confident at this point that the "StrawHat" treasure found in Mariejois and the StrawHat worn by Luffy and Roger have the exact same powers. I think that the StrawHat in Mariejois used to belong to Joy Boy. And I feel like both this hat and the current StrawHat worn by Luffy grant the user the ability to "Hear the Voice of All Things".

                                                Right now my only evidence for this theory is the knowledge that Joy Boy, Roger, and Luffy seem to all have this ability to "Hear the Voice of All Things". However, I feel confident that I'm correct here.
                                                =D

                                                We'll call this my personal tastes in fiction, but I really don't like the idea of the straw hat having an actual inherent power of its own. It's contrived, and it cheapens Luffy's accomplishments. I prefer the hat as just a symbol of the choice to carry on the Will of D, not some magical destiny everyone who wears it has. Not saying you're wrong at all, it's very plausible, just that it wouldn't be my favourite development.

                                                @Gia:

                                                Its the reverse. Its the location of the ship. It would be impossible for the poneglyph to point to the blueprints because its transportable. Franky destroyed the blueprints but Pluton still exists somewhere in the world.

                                                Ah right, thanks for clarifying. Although, you can say how hard it would be for a Poneglyph to point to the blueprints because they can be moved, but moving is what a ship is made to do, so yeah, how did that Poneglyph work at all?

                                                @Gia:

                                                Unless Uranus is the ancient weapon made to do so, and/or the weapon that could bring them back.

                                                That being said this is an awesome theory. I really do hope Enel and the moon storyline does come back to play a part in the manga eventually. It would make Skypiea that much more rewarding to read in the future. I do have a feeling the giant structure behind Elbaf is Yggdrasil and it may play a part into this. Especially if Yggdrasil may actually lead us to other "realms" (just being so high it reaches space or something like that)

                                                Thanks, glad you enjoyed the read! The moon stuff is all to interesting to leave alone, I can't wait to see what Oda does with it all.

                                                So, bringing up Elbaf's Yggdrasil? There's another thing I didn't think to take into account, and maybe I should have. I don't suppose you played Xenoblade Chronicles 2 recently? Spoilers for that below if you haven't.

                                                ! The World Tree at the center of the world there turned out to be an ancient, ruined civilisation's space elevator, one that was just dressed up as a tree for aesthetic reasons, and became a mythological centerpiece of the remade world. The main party takes the elevator up to a low orbit station for the final battles of the game.

                                                So uh yeah, that's a thing that's happened. Not sure how likely it is that Oda and Monolithsoft's writers would come up with the same twist, but it's certainly not impossible. And look, it was hype enough in Xenoblade that I'd happily experience it again in One Piece.

                                                Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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                                                  A moon has the force to move sea mass creating tides and low tides. By destroying a moon or 6 moons it is possible to create the calm belt. Of course I dont take into consideration the trajectory of the current and only moon and it is extremely simplified approach BUT possible

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                                                    Suigetsu
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                                                    Which of the confirmed experiments related to Vegapunk could be involved with his last creation mentioned by Fujitora?

                                                    1)Lineage factor (Cloning people by Judge and SAD, which Caesar used to create his own version of artificial devil fruits)
                                                    2)Vegapunk's artificial devil fruit
                                                    3)Making an object eat a devil fruit and acquire its properties (only confirmed with Zoans for now)
                                                    4)Incorporating a devil fruit power in an object. Said fruit is still in use (Kizaru's fruit, Pacifistas, Franky)
                                                    5)Gigantification

                                                    If it's a combination of all these experiments, it could fit better this theory? I don't know

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                                                    • theackwardstation
                                                      theackwardstation @Captain M
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                                                      @Captain:

                                                      That is a great point! It makes so much sense… you know, assuming anything else I said is right. I think the one issue would be how exhausting going Sulong is for Minks, since they can apparently fight themselves to death in a single night if they don't have the self control to shield their eyes from the moon and revert. Unless it's just evolution lowering their Sulong thresholds over the last few centuries, ancient Minks may have had very short lifespans.

                                                      With your permission I might add the Sulong point to the OP, because it's a great little idea for moon theories.

                                                      Of course, feel free to use it.

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                                                      • Roronoa Zacho
                                                        Roronoa Zacho @theackwardstation
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                                                        Mihawk's sword has the same cross-shape as the ol' wg-Symbol.
                                                        "Look, this dude's sword has the same Ends as our old symbol's cross! We make him a warlord!"

                                                        Oars though is old enough to be tied to the old WG's Symbol. It also makes sense they changed it, since within the last 800 yrs, more and more countries join them and the WG reached around the planet. So the new logo seems more Fitting. for a 170 countries' Union.

                                                        I also like the part where Kaidou is a failed Experiment of creating continent pullers. Would explain why he can't be killed (or it is hard to).

                                                        Problem I have with, that we saw the 7 moons just in one single Panel. That is too less IMO for such a late Point in the Story to finally reveal there have been 7 moons back then. Oda could have thrown us one or two more globes between W7/EL and now.

                                                        But that isjust a personal thought, all in all I like that theory. The RL seems man-made, though in 906 we saw some "holes" atop the RL. Like huge axes have been thrown there.

                                                        There are a lot of different opinions and views in this forum when it comes to One Piece.

                                                        But can we all agree that Roger's ship, the Oro Jackson, had the best figurehead in the story so far?

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                                                        • E
                                                          ensushalame
                                                          last edited by
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                                                          ensushalame
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                                                          @Captain:

                                                          As an aside that won’t tie into much else here, interesting that the Ancient Weapon Pluton is a ship. Maybe it was an ark the early World Government used to survive the lunar floods while the Redline was under construction. It fits with the theory that Noah is Pluton, especially considering Noah’s placement, as if it was abandoned and scuttled to sink to Fishman Island when the World Government disembarked from it a final time onto their new holy land. And if the seafaring races that formed the World Government had one ancient weapon, and we know the underwater races of Fishman Island held another in Poseidon, does that mean the moon races must have had Uranus, to keep a balance of power? And to go a little further down that line, symbolically, Poseidon is named for an ocean god and Uranus for one of the skies. Pluton, for a god of the underworld, doesn’t fit as cleanly, but the genocidal nature of the World Government helps it a bit.

                                                          So the World Government conquered the tides once, working with the Continent Pullers and abandoning their Ancient Weapon in the process. Then they got cocky, got caught up in their taste of godlike power and decided to put a stop to the lunar floods once and for all.

                                                          It’s hard to say exactly how they did this. Perhaps Uranus was captured and turned on the moon races. Maybe it also goes back to the Continent Pullers. Could something like Fishman Island’s ancient and treasured Energy Steroid have been used to bump their power up from ‘continent pulling’ to ‘planetoid destroying?’ Again, this area of the theory is pretty vague and subject to change as most information comes up.

                                                          I think you are a little bit confused here. The ancient weapons were created by the Ancient Kingdom. Thats why the Poneglyphs show the location of Pluton and Poseidon (and uranos most likely). Because the Ancient Kingdom for some reason or another hid the weapons but entrusted the Kouzuki clan to write the Poneglyphs if the weapons were ever needed.

                                                          It doesn´t make sense that the WG got rid of Pluton considering the fact that it is a ship that can destroy an island with a single shot. And something like that is not something that can get lost.

                                                          On that note, on Enies Lobby we found out that the Shipwrights of Water 7 have been keeping the Blueprints of Pluton so that if the WG ever got their hands on Pluton (that´s hidden somewhere only Robin knows after reading Crocodile´s Poneglyph in Alabasta) the rest of the world could use this blueprint to build another Pluton and fight back on equal footing. If you remember Franky burned those blueprints cause he bet on Strawhats victory over the WG. If they had taken Robin before killing her they would´ve tortured her in order to find the ancient weapons.

                                                          And talking about Ancient Weapons I personally find this interesting:


                                                          Notice the right hand side of the picture. What do you see? A ship.
                                                          Now look directly under it. Whats there? Sea Kings.

                                                          I feel like those are references to Pluton and Poseidon respectively.
                                                          So if there are two ancient weapons depicted there why not all 3?
                                                          I think that somewhere in this wall is a reference to Uranos. But what?
                                                          There are 3 drawings that could hint towards it
                                                          The first is the one where the skylanders are standing. The second posibility is the one on the top left, though I think that more likely to be the Sun. And finally the one right in between the skylanders and the robots. Something weirdly shaped. Maybe one of them is Uranos, only Odda knows.

                                                          So yeah that what I wanted to say regarding th Ancient Weapons bye

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                                                          • Roronoa Zacho
                                                            Roronoa Zacho @ensushalame
                                                            @ensushalame last edited by
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                                                            Oh yeah, the Noah. I also think the Noah's only purpose is to migrate the merfolk. No Pluton.
                                                            No big ass weapon on it, no sails, no paddles, just huge chains meant to be put in the mouths of the sea kings. So it just can be pulled by them.

                                                            About the moon I gotta say:
                                                            Oda said once we should check the moon phases. Maybe he tried to make us notice that the moon of the OP-world goes faster through the phases than our moon.
                                                            If Inu and Neko want to get their revenge on Jack (which I hope for they do in Sulong form), they can't wait almost 4 weeks on Wano to do so. So I guess (or more hope) a full moon occurs like every 14 days in the OP-world.
                                                            I have to check the Zou timeline and the WCI timeline again to be sure, but I hope there is a full moon more often than on our earth.

                                                            There are a lot of different opinions and views in this forum when it comes to One Piece.

                                                            But can we all agree that Roger's ship, the Oro Jackson, had the best figurehead in the story so far?

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                                                            • R
                                                              RigaCrypto @Roronoa Zacho
                                                              @Roronoa Zacho last edited by
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                                                              RigaCrypto
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                                                              Hello everyone, just made an account specificaly for this thread. I've been on mangaspoiler for a couple of years but wanted a more inclusive site where there are constructive dialgoues.

                                                              Now, about the post's theory :

                                                              1. Giving that in One Piece people still use swords and flint pistols, going in outer space or even destroying a couple of planets/moons seems a bit far fetched in my opinion. Maybe only the Advanced Kingdom managed to contact other planets or something.

                                                              2. The symbol from the MG cellar & the one from Oars skirt resemble almost 50% the symbol from the Kozuki clan (at least the outer design). This could mean a couple of things if you consider that the Wano country didnt take part in the war against the Ancient Kingdom.

                                                              3. What is Zunisha's role in all of this? Is the tree from Elbaf connected somehow to the whole space theory?

                                                              4. The Shandians said to have come from the moon and arrived in Jaya, and are descendants from Shandorians … meaning there are a couple of more descendants from the moon race (look at BB's sniper & others). This is the only link we have now that at least one Moon was inhabited and that the first people who came from there could've known about life on the other planets. Traveling to "earth" means they had at least a technological advantage in comparisson with the earth's humans.

                                                              Luffy vs Katakuri Full fight: https://www.docdroid.net/qrFOY9p/luffyxkata.pdf

                                                              Luffy vs Cracker Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/Pk06JZL/luffy-vs-cracker.pdf

                                                              Luffy vs Doflamingo Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/VDl3Ctf/luffyxdoffy.pdf

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                                                              • Captain M
                                                                Captain M @RigaCrypto
                                                                @RigaCrypto last edited by
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                                                                @ensushalame:

                                                                I think you are a little bit confused here. The ancient weapons were created by the Ancient Kingdom. Thats why the Poneglyphs show the location of Pluton and Poseidon (and uranos most likely). Because the Ancient Kingdom for some reason or another hid the weapons but entrusted the Kouzuki clan to write the Poneglyphs if the weapons were ever needed.

                                                                It doesn´t make sense that the WG got rid of Pluton considering the fact that it is a ship that can destroy an island with a single shot. And something like that is not something that can get lost.

                                                                On that note, on Enies Lobby we found out that the Shipwrights of Water 7 have been keeping the Blueprints of Pluton so that if the WG ever got their hands on Pluton (that´s hidden somewhere only Robin knows after reading Crocodile´s Poneglyph in Alabasta) the rest of the world could use this blueprint to build another Pluton and fight back on equal footing. If you remember Franky burned those blueprints cause he bet on Strawhats victory over the WG. If they had taken Robin before killing her they would´ve tortured her in order to find the ancient weapons.

                                                                And talking about Ancient Weapons I personally find this interesting:

                                                                https://mangazeira.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/manga-one-piece-capitulo-472-completo-online-0.png
                                                                Notice the right hand side of the picture. What do you see? A ship.
                                                                Now look directly under it. Whats there? Sea Kings.

                                                                I feel like those are references to Pluton and Poseidon respectively.
                                                                So if there are two ancient weapons depicted there why not all 3?
                                                                I think that somewhere in this wall is a reference to Uranos. But what?
                                                                There are 3 drawings that could hint towards it
                                                                The first is the one where the skylanders are standing. The second posibility is the one on the top left, though I think that more likely to be the Sun. And finally the one right in between the skylanders and the robots. Something weirdly shaped. Maybe one of them is Uranos, only Odda knows.

                                                                So yeah that what I wanted to say regarding th Ancient Weapons bye

                                                                This is a good refresher, thanks. There's so much half explained lore in this series it can be so hard to accurately keep track of everything.

                                                                Theories about those wall carvings are always interesting tho. I've seen it speculated that Uranus is the big dome coming down from the top right, and connected that to the similarly shaped objects that pulled Bege into the sky just before the timeskip. I'm not 100% certain I support that, especially since Bege just spent a whole lot of time in focus and didn't hint at it once, but it's another interesting idea to consider.

                                                                @Roronoa:

                                                                Oh yeah, the Noah. I also think the Noah's only purpose is to migrate the merfolk. No Pluton.
                                                                No big ass weapon on it, no sails, no paddles, just huge chains meant to be put in the mouths of the sea kings. So it just can be pulled by them.

                                                                About the moon I gotta say:
                                                                Oda said once we should check the moon phases. Maybe he tried to make us notice that the moon of the OP-world goes faster through the phases than our moon.
                                                                If Inu and Neko want to get their revenge on Jack (which I hope for they do in Sulong form), they can't wait almost 4 weeks on Wano to do so. So I guess (or more hope) a full moon occurs like every 14 days in the OP-world.
                                                                I have to check the Zou timeline and the WCI timeline again to be sure, but I hope there is a full moon more often than on our earth.

                                                                I don't remember that quote, but yeah it does sound pretty telling that something's up with the thing. You have to wonder if he was trying to indicate something more than just fast cycles, which is the kinda thing you could just handwave without saying "pay attention," but I'm at a total loss as to what it could be, without going through the whole series to check, anyway.

                                                                @RigaCrypto:

                                                                Hello everyone, just made an account specificaly for this thread. I've been on mangaspoiler for a couple of years but wanted a more inclusive site where there are constructive dialgoues.

                                                                Now, about the post's theory :

                                                                1. Giving that in One Piece people still use swords and flint pistols, going in outer space or even destroying a couple of planets/moons seems a bit far fetched in my opinion. Maybe only the Advanced Kingdom managed to contact other planets or something.

                                                                2. The symbol from the MG cellar & the one from Oars skirt resemble almost 50% the symbol from the Kozuki clan (at least the outer design). This could mean a couple of things if you consider that the Wano country didnt take part in the war against the Ancient Kingdom.

                                                                3. What is Zunisha's role in all of this? Is the tree from Elbaf connected somehow to the whole space theory?

                                                                4. The Shandians said to have come from the moon and arrived in Jaya, and are descendants from Shandorians … meaning there are a couple of more descendants from the moon race (look at BB's sniper & others). This is the only link we have now that at least one Moon was inhabited and that the first people who came from there could've known about life on the other planets. Traveling to "earth" means they had at least a technological advantage in comparisson with the earth's humans.

                                                                Yo! Welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy it here!

                                                                To address your points, 1: Ordinarily I would agree, but we've already had Enel flying up there on an electric-powered ship of wood and gold and the Automata reaching it with balloons, so we just have to roll with the idea of One Piece and real world physics having only a passing acquaintance with each other.

                                                                2: Now that is an interesting point. I'd honestly forgotten the Kozuki crest even had that X behind it. And with Little Oars Jr already having a loose connection to Wano, given he got his hat from there… I expected Wano and the Kozukis to be involved in it all somehow, but the suggestion they might have been on the World Government's side at one point is not one I'd have ever guessed.

                                                                3: Gia Sado actually mentioned the tree in Elbaf earlier in the thread with a great idea. It's obviously meant to represent the Norse Yggdrasil, the World Tree that goes all the way to the heavens. If the Giant homeland has or had a natural space elevator, that opens the doors to all kinds of ideas for how they might have been involved. As for Zunisha, I have no bloody clue to be honest. Possibly he just represented the wrong side in the Void Century's conflict and needed to atone, but we have so little information about him for the moment, so it's hard to say for sure.

                                                                4: Seems pretty likely. I think the variety of people seemingly descended from the moon races and how different they all are is good fodder for multiple moons theory, but of course I would, I wanna be right about that 👅 I reckon it's probably right that most of the tech that seems weirdly advanced for OP's setting is probably derived from stuff left behind by the more advanced moonfolk.

                                                                Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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                                                                • Y
                                                                  Yamamoto
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                                                                  This theory makes a lot of sense to me. Especially the parts about extra moons, taming the seas and world-building.

                                                                  I have always wondered why the World Nobles are also called "Celestial Dragons". I mean, I get it could just be an exaggerated title but if their ancestors really did win a war between different moons then it would be a literal title.

                                                                  I have also wondered why the Ancient Alliance has been referred to as the "creators" of the world. If the Ancient Alliance did indeed divide all the islands, move continents and destroy moons, then it would make sense why they would literally be the creators of the world. It would also explain why the planet is conveniently divided by the Red line and Grand line running perpendicular to each other with Mary Geoise at one of the intersections.

                                                                  Also it would make sense that 7 moons would make for untamable seas and I think it would be excellent motivation to get rid of those moons. If all the islands were indeed one pangaea then when those moons aligned over the pangaea they would flood it, creating the need for a ship like Noah or a Fishman island.

                                                                  Also when people talk about the ancient weapons, Pluton obviously has to with death and Neptune the seas, as their respective deities do, but Uranus typically is associated with the Sky or the "Heavens". Maybe there is something to Uranus moving the moons.

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                                                                  • kevo_koma
                                                                    kevo_koma @Seafarer33
                                                                    @Seafarer33 last edited by
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                                                                    @Seafarer33:

                                                                    Nice catch on the alcove symbol, I'd been wondering it had already appeared anywhere else. Tying the Punk Hazard skull to Continent Puller(s) is very interesting as well, I'd completely forgotten about it. A well developed theory and pleasant read altogether.

                                                                    If I had to criticize, I'd say the seven moons part and their destruction especially is unnecessary and overkill. Reasons:

                                                                    On destroying moons

                                                                    • In dinosaur extinction theories, a single large asteroid is considered to have had dramatic impacts on Earth. Meteor shower six moons' worth of rock debris on the surface of the One Piece planet and you're looking at not just a large flood, but possibly the total extinction of all life. Even assuming civilization did somehow pull through and prospered again in a mere 800 years, I would expect the land to bear marks in pretty much every region of the world. And by that I mean craters several miles wide - on Earth some of these still exist even after millions of years. Some of the larger debris could even still be orbiting the planet to this day like an asteroid belt visible from the ground. But until proven otherwise w
                                                                      e don't see any of that e.

                                                                    Oh you mean like how such an event could cause the One Piece World to be flooded with only islands surviving. And the effects of the impact fucked up the atmosphere so much that the entire global climate got fucked up and became random.

                                                                    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?

                                                                    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

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                                                                    • Seafarer33
                                                                      Seafarer33 @kevo_koma
                                                                      @kevo_koma last edited by
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                                                                      @kevo_koma:

                                                                      Oh you mean like how such an event could cause the One Piece World to be flooded with only islands surviving. And the effects of the impact fucked up the atmosphere so much that the entire global climate got fucked up and became random.

                                                                      No, I meant that in the sense most of the known world would have been razed to the ground by meteor showers. Then drastic climate change everywhere, not just in this (relatively) small belt of sea. Whatever phenomenon made the Grand Line what it is remained remarkably focused: as far as we know it's only this region of the world that is truly weird, the four Blues and Red Line are quite normal in comparison

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                                                                      • RoboBlue
                                                                        RoboBlue
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                                                                        Maybe Pluton is related to the similarly named Pluto from Astro Boy.

                                                                        https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/913949065446850590/964418994973073479/RPReplay_Final1650004792.mov

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                                                                        • Roronoa Zacho
                                                                          Roronoa Zacho @RoboBlue
                                                                          @RoboBlue last edited by
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                                                                          I got a funny theory:
                                                                          Right under that huge strawhat the last road poneglyph is hidden. Now here is the twist: that thing is tiny, cause it only contains 4 "ancient letters", so no one is expecting a poneglyph there.
                                                                          Here is how that thing could look like:

                                                                          (I made a funny riddle out of this, as I gave each ancient letter a roman letter, but the ancient letters are canon. I took them from Jinbe's poneglyph).

                                                                          If you can solve the riddle and where this poneglyph is pointing at, please post your answer in spoiler tags.

                                                                          There are a lot of different opinions and views in this forum when it comes to One Piece.

                                                                          But can we all agree that Roger's ship, the Oro Jackson, had the best figurehead in the story so far?

                                                                          Coookie B 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                          • Coookie
                                                                            Coookie @Roronoa Zacho
                                                                            @Roronoa Zacho last edited by
                                                                            Coookie
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                                                                            @Roronoa:

                                                                            I got a funny theory:
                                                                            Right under that huge strawhat the last road poneglyph is hidden. Now here is the twist: that thing is tiny, cause it only contains 4 "ancient letters", so no one is expecting a poneglyph there.
                                                                            Here is how that thing could look like:

                                                                            (I made a funny riddle out of this, as I gave each ancient letter a roman letter, but the ancient letters are canon. I took them from Jinbe's poneglyph).

                                                                            If you can solve the riddle and where this poneglyph is pointing at, please post your answer in spoiler tags.

                                                                            ! Long Ring Long Land

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                                                                            • Roronoa Zacho
                                                                              Roronoa Zacho @Coookie
                                                                              @Coookie last edited by
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                                                                              @Coookie:

                                                                              ! Long Ring Long Land

                                                                              DING DING DING! Correct!
                                                                              [hide]this island made sense to me as it had a short nickname and the fact that it is quite round, the Center of that "circle" makes it a perfect point to draw a line from it. [/hide]

                                                                              There are a lot of different opinions and views in this forum when it comes to One Piece.

                                                                              But can we all agree that Roger's ship, the Oro Jackson, had the best figurehead in the story so far?

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                                                                              • B
                                                                                BattleFranky69 @Roronoa Zacho
                                                                                @Roronoa Zacho last edited by
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                                                                                BattleFranky69
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                                                                                @Roronoa:

                                                                                I got a funny theory:
                                                                                Right under that huge strawhat the last road poneglyph is hidden. Now here is the twist: that thing is tiny, cause it only contains 4 "ancient letters", so no one is expecting a poneglyph there.
                                                                                Here is how that thing could look like:
                                                                                http://up.picr.de/32918679co.jpg
                                                                                (I made a funny riddle out of this, as I gave each ancient letter a roman letter, but the ancient letters are canon. I took them from Jinbe's poneglyph).

                                                                                If you can solve the riddle and where this poneglyph is pointing at, please post your answer in spoiler tags.

                                                                                TBH, all the ones except the one in the upper-right corner look like the word 'love' in a circle. The bottom horizontal line on the backwards 'E' is elongated, making it look like it's supposed to simultaneously look like an 'L' and 'E'. So if you start with that and move clockwise, you go 'L', 'O', 'V' (even though it's doubled, it's still just two single 'V's), 'E'. And since love makes the world go round…LOL. Who knows? Not sure about the last one, though.

                                                                                Just thinking about this latest chapter, though...Queen Otohime's showing love and compassion toward that Celestial Dragon, despite him and the rest of her people showing hate, was what solved the conflict. And it continued to do so to this day where he stopped Charloss and showed he became a better person. So maybe love is what will stop all the fighting ultimately, not hate, which I think is what underlies Dragon's campaign. Maybe Luffy will be the one to inspire a ceasefire, with how Naruto-y he seems to be in finding friends and allies, and changing people for the better. Maybe Roger's heart wasn't pure enough to figure out what to do with One Piece, and Luffy's is...maybe that's why he's a bigger threat than Roger ever will have been.

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                                                                                • Monkey King
                                                                                  Monkey King
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                                                                                  Any and all theories stating that the Grand Line was in any way a product of the Void Century is instantly 100% wrong and should immediately be discarded.

                                                                                  Don't believe me? I will destroy all those theories in two words.

                                                                                  Little Garden.

                                                                                  End of discussion.

                                                                                  Captain M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                  • Captain M
                                                                                    Captain M @Monkey King
                                                                                    @Monkey King last edited by
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                                                                                    @Yamamoto:

                                                                                    This theory makes a lot of sense to me. Especially the parts about extra moons, taming the seas and world-building.

                                                                                    I have always wondered why the World Nobles are also called "Celestial Dragons". I mean, I get it could just be an exaggerated title but if their ancestors really did win a war between different moons then it would be a literal title.

                                                                                    I have also wondered why the Ancient Alliance has been referred to as the "creators" of the world. If the Ancient Alliance did indeed divide all the islands, move continents and destroy moons, then it would make sense why they would literally be the creators of the world. It would also explain why the planet is conveniently divided by the Red line and Grand line running perpendicular to each other with Mary Geoise at one of the intersections.

                                                                                    Also it would make sense that 7 moons would make for untamable seas and I think it would be excellent motivation to get rid of those moons. If all the islands were indeed one pangaea then when those moons aligned over the pangaea they would flood it, creating the need for a ship like Noah or a Fishman island.

                                                                                    Also when people talk about the ancient weapons, Pluton obviously has to with death and Neptune the seas, as their respective deities do, but Uranus typically is associated with the Sky or the "Heavens". Maybe there is something to Uranus moving the moons.

                                                                                    Glad you enjoyed the theory! Honestly tho, if you had to ask what I most expect to be proven wrong about, it's the reason for attacking the moons, if that does turn out to be what happened at all. We've been given basically nothing to go for why the World Government destroyed the Ancient Civilsation, whatever it was. Uranus as a sky thing is all but guaranteed though, especially if the Ancient Civilisation really does turn out to be moon-based.

                                                                                    @kevo_koma:

                                                                                    Oh you mean like how such an event could cause the One Piece World to be flooded with only islands surviving. And the effects of the impact fucked up the atmosphere so much that the entire global climate got fucked up and became random.

                                                                                    @Seafarer33:

                                                                                    No, I meant that in the sense most of the known world would have been razed to the ground by meteor showers. Then drastic climate change everywhere, not just in this (relatively) small belt of sea. Whatever phenomenon made the Grand Line what it is remained remarkably focused: as far as we know it's only this region of the world that is truly weird, the four Blues and Red Line are quite normal in comparison

                                                                                    Both good points. And as Monkey King posted, theories about the entire Grand Line being created have a few points to answer for. I would be personally be happy if the Grand Line was a strange, natural phenomenon that the people of the world have been trying to deal with for all of time. Depending on devil fruit origins (and fuck even knows what those will be) we could look for solutions for moon debris based on different powers. Issho's could be used to prevent impacts or push things out of orbit, conceivably. Or if there was some kind of extremely prominent and desirable black hole based power that could consume enormous amounts of mass if used by the right person. I'm spitballing, there's really too many variables and we have too little influence to say for sure…

                                                                                    Though, to get absolutely bullshit, it almost could be an idea that the Dark Dark Fruit was used to consume the moons, if given to a Continent Puller sized body to create a big enough black hole. And then if we take another wild fucking leap and say all users of the fruit across history share the same black hole with the stuff consumed and left inside being passed from user to user, we can guess that the multitudes of black hole'd spaceys inside Blackbeard somehow enable his multiple fruits gimmick.

                                                                                    But yeah, I don't think that'll be the case and I would probably be unhappy if it was lmao

                                                                                    @RoboBlue:

                                                                                    Maybe Pluton is related to the similarly named Pluto from Astro Boy.
                                                                                    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/12/Astro_Boy_Pluto.jpg/220px-Astro_Boy_Pluto.jpg

                                                                                    Well Oda does like mecha. He also likes breaking my heart, so what's the bet he draws on the Urasawa interpretation of the Pluto storyline? 👅

                                                                                    @Roronoa:

                                                                                    I got a funny theory:
                                                                                    Right under that huge strawhat the last road poneglyph is hidden. Now here is the twist: that thing is tiny, cause it only contains 4 "ancient letters", so no one is expecting a poneglyph there.
                                                                                    Here is how that thing could look like:
                                                                                    http://up.picr.de/32918679co.jpg
                                                                                    (I made a funny riddle out of this, as I gave each ancient letter a roman letter, but the ancient letters are canon. I took them from Jinbe's poneglyph).

                                                                                    If you can solve the riddle and where this poneglyph is pointing at, please post your answer in spoiler tags.

                                                                                    Dang, I was beaten to it! Wonder if there is some code to the poneglyphs tho… Seems like at least one superfan would have worked it out by now if there was, but Oda being Oda, he could totally chuck a rosetta stone at us late in the series that makes them all click lmao. Ah, I haven't even looked close enough to say if there's a broad enough library of symbols to even make a code out of, so I could be setting myself up to look dumb for even suggesting the idea.

                                                                                    @Monkey:

                                                                                    Any and all theories stating that the Grand Line was in any way a product of the Void Century is instantly 100% wrong and should immediately be discarded.

                                                                                    Don't believe me? I will destroy all those theories in two words.

                                                                                    Little Garden.

                                                                                    End of discussion.

                                                                                    Grand Line creation, yeah I'm not the biggest fan. Redline creation, still plausible. This is in reference to Vivi saying at the start of Little Garden that the climate of the Grand Line has allowed some islands to go unchanged for "thousands of years" because it makes them so hard to visit or colonise, right?

                                                                                    Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

                                                                                    Gia Sado 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                    • maxterdexter
                                                                                      maxterdexter
                                                                                      last edited by
                                                                                      maxterdexter
                                                                                      spiral
                                                                                      maxterdexter
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                                                                                      What I don't like about the "grand line is a construct of the WG" theory is that they did a terrible job in hidding Raftel with that.

                                                                                      The ancient kingdom managed to find it and map it again.

                                                                                      They didn't burry it, or submerge it, or destroy it, just made it harder to reach, while leaving the hole of fishman island, cavern that would lower the power and flow of piracy a great deal, there.

                                                                                      As an instrument of global oppresion, it has never seemed that detrimental to the lives of people, the blues are perfectly liveable, and of all grand line countries, the only ones that have suffered of issolation were the sea train triangle, and that kind of comes with the deal when you completelly turn your island to a city without fields to grow foodstufs.

                                                                                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                      Raftel seems placed somewhere hard to find, but reachable, the world goverment doesn't seem like they would want that.

                                                                                      3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837

                                                                                      SW-4128-8032-0729

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                                                                                      • Roronoa Zacho
                                                                                        Roronoa Zacho @BattleFranky69
                                                                                        @BattleFranky69 last edited by
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                                                                                        Roronoa Zacho
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                                                                                        @BattleFranky69:

                                                                                        TBH, all the ones except the one in the upper-right corner look like the word 'love' in a circle. The bottom horizontal line on the backwards 'E' is elongated, making it look like it's supposed to simultaneously look like an 'L' and 'E'. So if you start with that and move clockwise, you go 'L', 'O', 'V' (even though it's doubled, it's still just two single 'V's), 'E'. And since love makes the world go round…LOL. Who knows? Not sure about the last one, though.

                                                                                        Just thinking about this latest chapter, though...Queen Otohime's showing love and compassion toward that Celestial Dragon, despite him and the rest of her people showing hate, was what solved the conflict. And it continued to do so to this day where he stopped Charloss and showed he became a better person. So maybe love is what will stop all the fighting ultimately, not hate, which I think is what underlies Dragon's campaign. Maybe Luffy will be the one to inspire a ceasefire, with how Naruto-y he seems to be in finding friends and allies, and changing people for the better. Maybe Roger's heart wasn't pure enough to figure out what to do with One Piece, and Luffy's is...maybe that's why he's a bigger threat than Roger ever will have been.

                                                                                        I see what you mean. But the truth is: I took the ancient letters from Jinbe's "cover Story poneglyph". I picked two, which looked "pretty similar" as well as "easy to redraw". Therefore I picked letters with circles and dots as well as familiar forms (like a rotated 'E' or 'V').
                                                                                        And… "Love" is always the answer. 😆 Just like Sniper Island, it lives within you heart. 😉

                                                                                        --- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                        @maxterdexter:

                                                                                        What I don't like about the "grand line is a construct of the WG" theory is that they did a terrible job in hidding Raftel with that.

                                                                                        The ancient kingdom managed to find it and map it again.

                                                                                        They didn't burry it, or submerge it, or destroy it, just made it harder to reach, while leaving the hole of fishman island, cavern that would lower the power and flow of piracy a great deal, there.

                                                                                        As an instrument of global oppresion, it has never seemed that detrimental to the lives of people, the blues are perfectly liveable, and of all grand line countries, the only ones that have suffered of issolation were the sea train triangle, and that kind of comes with the deal when you completelly turn your island to a city without fields to grow foodstufs.

                                                                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                        Raftel seems placed somewhere hard to find, but reachable, the world goverment doesn't seem like they would want that.

                                                                                        IDK, as it was displayed in the zou arc (in the "x-marks-the-spot"-Panel), Raftel seems to emerge from the ocean. This could be nonsense, but what if you Need to say a Formular like "rise up!" or "open yourself!" to lift the Island to the surface? Sounds completely dull right now, I know. But on the other hand I always wondered how in all those centuries nobody "ran randomly" or "accidently" onto that Island. Even if it hasn't any magnetic activity.

                                                                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                        @Captain:

                                                                                        (…) Dang, I was beaten to it! Wonder if there is some code to the poneglyphs tho... Seems like at least one superfan would have worked it out by now if there was, but Oda being Oda, he could totally chuck a rosetta stone at us late in the series that makes them all click lmao. Ah, I haven't even looked close enough to say if there's a broad enough library of symbols to even make a code out of, so I could be setting myself up to look dumb for even suggesting the idea. (...)

                                                                                        There is actually a solid (and "pretty easy") way to find out if the texts on the Stones are a language or just random gibberish: if every letter on them is used as often as any other, then it is no language. If one letter (or sign) is used more often than the other and there is an order from most used letter/sign to least used letter/sign, then you have a language. At least it works that way with words and also noises made by animals. Scientists found out those aren't just random noises, but real communication between animals. An exception would be the binary code, cause it is easy to assume, that 1 and 0 are used quite the same often. However, the sequences like "01001010" used to make letters are pretty unique.

                                                                                        There are a lot of different opinions and views in this forum when it comes to One Piece.

                                                                                        But can we all agree that Roger's ship, the Oro Jackson, had the best figurehead in the story so far?

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                                                                                        • C
                                                                                          Chromwell
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                                                                                          spiral
                                                                                          Chromwell
                                                                                          spiral

                                                                                          Reading all this discussions made me more curious about Enel's old home (Bilca, if I'm not mistaken) and how did he figure out that the moon is habitable. I mean they still need Oxygen, right? If DF users don't need Oxygen then Luffy wouldn't need any help when Arlong threw him to the sea.

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                                                                                          • K
                                                                                            Kh3lbeN
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                                                                                            Kh3lbeN
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                                                                                            Crazy theory time alert.

                                                                                            Upon reading this and especially the part about the symbols( Secret room / Oars clothes) i can't stop thinking about one thing. The god-damn Kitetsu blades. I ve seen people saying Mihawk's sword hilt resembles the symbol but it's not quite the same. Now take a look at the Kitetsus ( Yes plural ). If this crazy thought of mine is correct then i am 100% convinced now that the sword that the bald Gorosei has is a Kitetsu too.What if the Continent Pullers the World Government and the Demon Splitters (Kitetsus) are somehow all related to each other?We know that each of the Kitetsu blades were made by different generation of swordsmiths.What if Shodai Kitetsu was made way back when during the conflict between WG and the Old Kingdom? What if the world government doesn't have one memento of this victory of theirs (in the form of the giant strawhat) but two ? (Gorosei Gandhi proudly wielding the second one)

                                                                                            !

                                                                                            !

                                                                                            !

                                                                                            !

                                                                                            Roronoa Zacho 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                            • Roronoa Zacho
                                                                                              Roronoa Zacho @Kh3lbeN
                                                                                              @Kh3lbeN last edited by
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                                                                                              Roronoa Zacho
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                                                                                              My best guess is that Gandhi received this sword from Wano.
                                                                                              If the Shogun had a Kitetsu (I know, a big IF), then how is it possible that Gandhi Gorousei also posesses one?

                                                                                              Since the masons of Wano made the poneglyphs, Wano had to be a big thorne in the eye of the WG. So there were 2 Options: Buster Call the whole Island(s) or negotiate with them.
                                                                                              Outcome: Wano has this "no one leaves, no one enters"-policy (which includes even marines) and on top of that one Gorousei received a sword from that Country.

                                                                                              And when Luffy departures from there, it will be open to the world. Another kick in the butt of the WG.

                                                                                              There are a lot of different opinions and views in this forum when it comes to One Piece.

                                                                                              But can we all agree that Roger's ship, the Oro Jackson, had the best figurehead in the story so far?

                                                                                              B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                              • B
                                                                                                BattleFranky69 @Roronoa Zacho
                                                                                                @Roronoa Zacho last edited by
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                                                                                                BattleFranky69
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                                                                                                @Roronoa:

                                                                                                My best guess is that Gandhi received this sword from Wano.
                                                                                                If the Shogun had a Kitetsu (I know, a big IF), then how is it possible that Gandhi Gorousei also posesses one?

                                                                                                Since the masons of Wano made the poneglyphs, Wano had to be a big thorne in the eye of the WG. So there were 2 Options: Buster Call the whole Island(s) or negotiate with them.
                                                                                                Outcome: Wano has this "no one leaves, no one enters"-policy (which includes even marines) and on top of that one Gorousei received a sword from that Country.

                                                                                                And when Luffy departures from there, it will be open to the world. Another kick in the butt of the WG.

                                                                                                If Kaido invaded Wano, though, then unless he, too, wanted the 'no in, no out' policy (which makes no sense since his guys would need to resupply or be called out for emergencies and whatnot) then there isn't already one, officially. But I get what you meant, and agree that Luffy will alleviate their fear of outsiders and motivate them to buck their strict adherence to traditions and cultural beliefs about how women should dress, for instance.

                                                                                                Roronoa Zacho 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                • Roronoa Zacho
                                                                                                  Roronoa Zacho @BattleFranky69
                                                                                                  @BattleFranky69 last edited by
                                                                                                  Roronoa Zacho
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                                                                                                  Roronoa Zacho
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                                                                                                  @BattleFranky69:

                                                                                                  If Kaido invaded Wano, though, then unless he, too, wanted the 'no in, no out' policy (which makes no sense since his guys would need to resupply or be called out for emergencies and whatnot) then there isn't already one, officially. But I get what you meant, and agree that Luffy will alleviate their fear of outsiders and motivate them to buck their strict adherence to traditions and cultural beliefs about how women should dress, for instance.

                                                                                                  From what we've heard about Oden, he was considered a criminal after leaving Wano.

                                                                                                  Now, Kaidou is a different story. Even if he entered Wano "without permission" of, let's say, the Shogun, then what? How do you wanna punish a guy like Kaidou?
                                                                                                  If he joined forces with the Shogun, Kaidou's men might have immunity to that law. Additionally, Kaidou's men aren't Wano's masons and they MIGHT not know crucial info about the void century.
                                                                                                  But IDK why Kaidou killed Oden. Because he knew the secret of this world? What has Kaidou to do with that? We need further info on that.
                                                                                                  Anyway, the reason why Wano is closed (even to marines) and the fact the infamous masons are from there, have to be connected somehow.
                                                                                                  Ohara just translated the poneglyphs and they were BusterCall'd. So why is Wano still on the map?
                                                                                                  The strong samurais alone can't be the reason, even if they're able to repel cannonballs with their swords.
                                                                                                  I mean, maybe they tried to Buster-Call them, but then noticed the strong samurais DID repel the cannonballs.
                                                                                                  THEN the WG might have thought:"If you can't kill them, negotiate with 'em."

                                                                                                  There are a lot of different opinions and views in this forum when it comes to One Piece.

                                                                                                  But can we all agree that Roger's ship, the Oro Jackson, had the best figurehead in the story so far?

                                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                  • G
                                                                                                    GolD.Ace22
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                                                                                                    GolD.Ace22
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                                                                                                    I agree with the Kitetsu theory in that the old Gorosei dude has the sword. But then again I still believe the younger Gorosei member will have some relation to Sanji and the Vinsmokes. I'm pretty sure as a member of the Gorosei it wouldn't be hard to acquire.

                                                                                                    I don't like the idea that the "grand line is a construct of the WG" theory either. However I do believe that the Red Line will be destroyed in the end by Luffy. I think the Red Line was a concept made by Joy Boy to help hide the poneglyphs from the WG. I also feel like the All Blue is Fishman Island and that the true all blue will be when the Red Line is destroyed.
                                                                                                    =D

                                                                                                    Katzztar 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                    • Katzztar
                                                                                                      Katzztar @GolD.Ace22
                                                                                                      @GolD.Ace22 last edited by
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                                                                                                      @Roronoa:

                                                                                                      From what we've heard about Oden, he was considered a criminal after leaving Wano.

                                                                                                      Now, Kaidou is a different story. Even if he entered Wano "without permission" of, let's say, the Shogun, then what? How do you wanna punish a guy like Kaidou?
                                                                                                      If he joined forces with the Shogun, Kaidou's men might have immunity to that law. Additionally, Kaidou's men aren't Wano's masons and they MIGHT not know crucial info about the void century.
                                                                                                      But IDK why Kaidou killed Oden. Because he knew the secret of this world? What has Kaidou to do with that? We need further info on that. Anyway, the reason why Wano is closed (even to marines) and the fact the infamous masons are from there, have to be connected somehow.
                                                                                                      Ohara just translated the poneglyphs and they were BusterCall'd. So why is Wano still on the map?
                                                                                                      The strong samurais alone can't be the reason, even if they're able to repel cannonballs with their swords.
                                                                                                      I mean, maybe they tried to Buster-Call them, but then noticed the strong samurais DID repel the cannonballs.
                                                                                                      THEN the WG might have thought:"If you can't kill them, negotiate with 'em."

                                                                                                      I got the impression Kaido wanted Oden to translate a ponyglyph for him but Oden refused. But on going back to wiki and then checking the chapter (818)for correctness=
                                                                                                      @wikia:

                                                                                                      Kaido sought the Kozuki Family because Oden had been to Raftel. Not wanting Kaido to get the information, Oden sacrificed himself to allow the rest of his family to escape.

                                                                                                      So instead of wanting Oden to read the ponyglyp, Kaido seemed to want info on Raftel and Oden refused.

                                                                                                      Roronoa Zacho 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                      • R
                                                                                                        RigaCrypto
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                                                                                                        RigaCrypto
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                                                                                                        My guess is that Raftel is the last island that survived from the Ancient Kingdom and when Roger arrived and learned about the true history - him, Rayleigh & crew said they know about it - then he left his possessions there in hope that one day the true descendent of D will arrive and fullfill the prophecy ( that is why he encited all the pirates around the world to get "One Piece" in hopes that amongst them there will be the chosen one). He let himself get captured upon knowing that he isn't the one to help the AK win against the WG, so he wanted to send the message world wide.

                                                                                                        Raftel may very well have inhabitants that belonged to the Ancient kingdom and have advance technology, probabl;y preparing for the war to come at least. I bet the original treasure tree Adam is also on that island - by contrast of the Treasure tree Eve which i think is in Mary Geoise because its above Fishmen island which receives light through its roots.

                                                                                                        I will try to gather more info on this and come up with a more significat point of view.

                                                                                                        Luffy vs Katakuri Full fight: https://www.docdroid.net/qrFOY9p/luffyxkata.pdf

                                                                                                        Luffy vs Cracker Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/Pk06JZL/luffy-vs-cracker.pdf

                                                                                                        Luffy vs Doflamingo Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/VDl3Ctf/luffyxdoffy.pdf

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