@Robby:
I DON'T think that. That's the entire reason I don't understand why everyone wants him to switch.
The running message I'm getting from the lot of you is that "it will be better for him if he accepts that he's actually a girl, that's the obvious end of his character arc."
I am asking what all of you think making a switch would actual entail, what it would it do, what would actually change.
If you don't care about traditional gender roles and traditional gender identity, if you don't care if he acts like a traditional woman or a traditional man, then… what does it matter what he wants to be?
Why the constant insistence that, at the end of the day, he's going to decide he's a girl after all. What does that even mean?
I'm not denying that may end up being exactly what Oda does. And if Yamato DOES decide he's a girl instead, that's fine, whatever he's happy with. But until that comes, why the insistence that it must?
I'm saying I don't think any switch needs to be made because I already think Yamato is female. I think the very notion that Yamato views being a man as part of her identity rather than part of a performance is invented by the western fanbase.
I'm saying, from my perspective, there won't be a moment where Yamato decides to be a woman because she's already a woman. It's the reason why I have no problems referring to Yamato as female.
And it's good you don't feel that way. I only responded because that's the way it read when you said Yamato needs to star wearing frilly dresses and makeup in order to be a woman.
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@RoboBlue:
I'd been on the fence for a super long time when it comes to Yamato's gender, but regardless of my opinion I figured I'd make the statement that whatever pronoun I think is accurate it's not a judgement against anyone who disagrees.
That's way different from depicting Yamato's gender wrong, though.
Due to the nature of Japanese -> English transcriptions mistakes happen all the time and it's hard for native Japanese speakers who aren't fluent English speakers (one of the most difficult combinations of languages to master) to catch it since it still sounds right to them when read out loud.
Is that one of those things that was accurate in Oda's head at the time before he possibly retconned it, or did they put that in after the facts were settled?
There's definitely been some misdirection, but why would they intentionally misgender Yamato in the Vivre Card twice?
"Oni Princess" is definitively female.
There's just been a whole bunch of stuff lately that really calls into question what Oda, Shueisha and Toei are doing if the plan all along had been for Yamato's gender identity to be male.
Episode 989 cut a line from Sasaki that Stephen translated as referring to Yamato using a male pronoun.
.
Then the Vivre Card leaks came out.
These things all happened back to back, that's a lot of borderline transphobic mistakes for one brand to make in a week if Yamato was/still is intended to be male.
I'm not saying it's totally impossible but there would need to be a course correction quick with some kind of public statement offering clarification.
I think you phrased this very well and this is generally what I mean when I say I don't think Oda intended to make any statement on gender or to make gender identity as it is viewed in the west an intrinsic part f Yamato's identity or character arc. 'Becoming a man' is framed as more of a quirk or byproduct of choosing to be Oden. Importantly, it's framed as a choice or a willful act. It isn't really presented as a personal revelation about an intrinsic aspect of Yamato's identity.
Yamato uses 'boku' as a pronoun, which says more about her personality than it does anything about her gender.
The only mystery is why Kaido and the Beast Pirates refer to Yamato as a son, but the fact that Kaido respects nothing about Yamato's wishes or desires suggests it has nothing to do with Yamato's personal gender identity. If Kaido refers to Yamato as his son, you can bet it's for selfish reasons.
Other characters and ancillary material have not used male third person pronouns to refer to Yamato. Some have been translated that way (like Luffy calling Yamato 'he') based on the perceived context that Yamato is identifying as a man. And I think all of this supplemental / ancillary material suggests this is a faulty underlying assumption.
All of this is why I don't think Yamato needs to have some moment where she changes and decides to be a woman because I don't get the impression Oda envisions Yamato to be a man in any sense beyond the Oden performance.
