Kaido wants a shogun to rule over WaNo.
Shoguns can only be male, historically (which is something the WaNo people adhere to, as we've seen with Kinemon's earlier sexist comments).
Kaido gets a daughter.
Well, shit.
How to solve this?
Yamato: "From now on I'm going to be known as Oden!"
Koido: "You what?"
"Yes. I'm Oden now."
"That dancing fool?"
"The great man that you killed!"
"A man you say?"
Hm…
A week later:
"Everyone, this is my son, Yamato. Future shogun of WaNo."
Problem solved.
Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary
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Hi could anyone translate the timeline on Who's Who's card? Thanks in advance.
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That's a cool colour spread I didn't know about it, but its not by Oda so I wouldn't take it as evidence tbh. I could counter it by using the colour spread by the One Piece Party author where Yamato is dressed in a Male High School uniform. I think its left up to the artist.
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Page One's bounty is such adorably pathetic in comparison.
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Okay so I am not going to get entranced in this whole argument, but I will say this once for the record. It literally does not matter the reason why, you refer to someone to how they want to be referred. It is basic respect, and there is literally no reason not to other than to be a dick. If yamato does in fact change his mind and how he prefers to be called, then great, call him that, but that is in no way the situation.
Knowing Oda, yes this can very easily go down many very disappointing transphobic roots, but that has no effect on the here and now. Have a good day.
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Onimaru have the hito hito no mi model onyudo wow
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Not if he's 188 yo
Uuh? Actually yes.
Law said the WG has tried to achieve gigantification since ages, if he's 188, it means a different method than Caesar have been used on him.
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Hi could anyone translate the timeline on Who's Who's card? Thanks in advance.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-MizeJXMAAImRu?format=jpg&name=largeThat's a very tall cat.
I'd also be interested in that timeline. Is 00 chapter 0, the current in-story year, or… ?
Also also: I find the mispelled "CAT'S" to be so Oda-ish, especially with all the English availability he has on his team.
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it's current year
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The tenguyama is sukiyaki theory is now dead since tenguyama is 58 and if oden is alive he would have been 59 so it is impossible that he is his father
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Uuh? Actually yes.
Law said the WG has tried to achieve gigantification since ages, if he's 188, it means a different method than Caesar have been used on him.
Yeah mb, thats fair
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Well would you look at that, all of the tobbi roppo are haki users.
Couple ppl were 100% wrong a few chapter threads ago.
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I don't think you could be such a high-ranking member of a Yonko army without knowing haki.
But.
The fact that there's been few if not zero attacks showcasing the Tobi's mastery of it is what mislaid most. 'Cause if the Tobi use haki, readers (myself included) expect the SHs to counter with haki–and thus far we have zero indication that Franky or Nami have it.
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Hi could anyone translate the timeline on Who's Who's card? Thanks in advance.
Before ??
–--------
At CP9, he gets noticed as a promising agentBefore ??
He gets rejected by waitress Gatherine
Before 12
The Gum Gum fruit is stolen while he was escorting it. Due to failing his mission, Who's Who gets incarcerated.
Before 11
After escaping prison, leaves CP9 and forms the Who's Who pirates
Before ??
Falls under the umbrella of the Beast pirates and afterwards gets promoted to TobiRoppo
Before 00
Summoned by King, attends the gathering at Onigashima
Before 00
With the right to challenge an All-Star at stake, the Yamato search starts
Before 00
The fight against Jinbe starts
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All the character cards from this set, obviously via the twitter user who's name is watermarked all over them. Laughing at "Holed'em" - the same mistake was in the volume 99 SBS and it looks like it's not going anywhere.
Kyosiro instead of Kyoshiro is another interesting romanisation choice.
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Before ??
–--------
At CP9, he gets noticed as a promising agentBefore ??
He gets rejected by waitress Gatherine
Before 12
The Gum Gum fruit is stolen while he was escorting it. Due to failing his mission, Who's Who gets incarcerated.
Before 11
After escaping prison, leaves CP9 and forms the Who's Who pirates
Before ??
Falls under the umbrella of the Beast pirates and afterwards gets promoted to TobiRoppo
Before 00
Summoned by King, attends the gathering at Onigashima
Before 00
With the right to challenge an All-Star at stake, the Yamato search starts
Before 00
The fight against Jinbe starts
Here we go Gatherine is truly the strongest Enies Lobby's resident.
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Omg, Who's Who got rejected by the same women as Jabra. Love that detail.
The fact that je escaped 11 years ago makes him having seen Jinbe as a Shichibukai a more weird tidbit though.
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So, is there any info that Sasaki is Fishman or half Fishman?
In the beginning I was under that impression but never mentioned and now that he get a Vivre Card there isn’t any info about that right?
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Before ??
–--------
At CP9, he gets noticed as a promising agentBefore ??
He gets rejected by waitress Gatherine
Before 12
The Gum Gum fruit is stolen while he was escorting it. Due to failing his mission, Who's Who gets incarcerated.
Before 11
After escaping prison, leaves CP9 and forms the Who's Who pirates
Before ??
Falls under the umbrella of the Beast pirates and afterwards gets promoted to TobiRoppo
Before 00
Summoned by King, attends the gathering at Onigashima
Before 00
With the right to challenge an All-Star at stake, the Yamato search starts
Before 00
The fight against Jinbe starts
Thank you for this!!
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Before ??
–--------
At CP9, he gets noticed as a promising agentBefore ??
He gets rejected by waitress Gatherine
Before 12
The Gum Gum fruit is stolen while he was escorting it. Due to failing his mission, Who's Who gets incarcerated.
Before 11
After escaping prison, leaves CP9 and forms the Who's Who pirates
Before ??
Falls under the umbrella of the Beast pirates and afterwards gets promoted to TobiRoppo
Before 00
Summoned by King, attends the gathering at Onigashima
Before 00
With the right to challenge an All-Star at stake, the Yamato search starts
Before 00
The fight against Jinbe starts
Thanks for the translation.
Still very odd to me that his punishment for losing the Gum Gum fruit was so harsh.
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Interesting that only Who's-Who and Sasaki get epithets in the Tobiroppo (like Drake). It sells the idea that they were their own threats before joining.
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For the umpteenth time. Gender and sex aren't the same thing.
Sex is the physical bits. Gender is how you perceive yourself and how society treats you.
But Japanese doesn't really have a distinction between the two.
During the televised popularity poll countdowns, everyone on set used "he" for Yamato. The stuff that was cleared through staff and editorial for television, which for many would be their first time seeing the character..
And the staff (and Oda) are well aware of what Yamato's status means to certain fans.
Whatever Yamato wants to be called, is what he gets called. If that changes, then it changes. In the meantime, go with what he wants.
'Biological Sex' as a classification system is
. Sex is made up of more than just 'penis' or 'vagina'. It accounts for gonads, hormones, secondary sex characteristics and genitals. When babies are born their genders are assigned merely based on what the doctor thinks their genitals look like. The video I linked to goes into better detail on the subject (and also lists a bevy of scientific sources) so I'll refrain from just copying everything they say there. I just want to point out that the idea of people being 'born' one way or the other is just…not even full measured? Sex is fake.(As an aside, I just take big issue with being called a 'biological male' just because I was born with a cock I don't even want. Fuck that shit, I'm a biological female.)
Thank you for the info, guys
Vivre Card editor is referring to Yamato as "She" twice.
Yamato is called "Demon Princess" (鬼姫) in the text.As far as I can see, Japanese people who have read this leaked images
of Viivre Card don't care much about Yamato being called "She".That said, some fans made a comment, "It's understandable if foreign fans get annoyed about it"
Transgender people exist in Japan, too. Who cares what cis fans think?
She/Her
Don't like the gender you were assigned at birth? Change it!
Want to be a girl? Click here!
What's gender dysphoria, you ask? Click here to find out!
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@The:
So, is there any info that Sasaki is Fishman or half Fishman?
In the beginning I was under that impression but never mentioned and now that he get a Vivre Card there isn’t any info about that right?
His "tribe" space is blank. Usually this is the case for humans.
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The deal with Yamato is extra jarring because it's not subtle. Literally everyone in the manga calls him a guy and he wants to be called a guy.
Luffy's nickname for him is literally Yamao for Yama-guy like with Law. So the question really is whether it's just wanting to be Oden or also actually wanting to be a guy, something we don't have an answer to as of now.
Merch and extra material is secondary to the text and often simplifies context. I think this is the case here.
Maybe this does foreshadow that Yamato isn't intended to be a trans character, but for now in the manga itself, he wants to be called a guy. So as with assigning pronouns to people, he is a guy.
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Honestly I think Kiku is truly transgender whereas Yamato is Oda just giving the character a quirk (albeit clumsy and somewhat tone def/offensive). Oda made sure to say that Kiku is biologically male but has the spirit of a maiden. That is pretty cut and dry there. Contrasted to Yamato who just seems portrayed as an overzealous fan of Oden and who's only emphasis of identification to the male gender is through being identified as Oden and we now learn was being referred to as demon princess beforehand. The story could just as easily go the direction of Yamato realizing that they don't have to be Oden to appreciate him and then no longer go by Oden.I mean no offense when I say this but I really don't think it's any deeper than that.
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The deal with Yamato is extra jarring because it's not subtle. Literally everyone in the manga calls him a guy and he wants to be called a guy.
Luffy's nickname for him is literally Yamao for Yama-guy like with Law. So the question really is whether it's just wanting to be Oden or also actually wanting to be a guy, something we don't have an answer to as of now.
Merch and extra material is secondary to the text and often simplifies context. I think this is the case here.
Maybe this does foreshadow that Yamato isn't intended to be a trans character, but for now in the manga itself, he wants to be called a guy. So as with assigning pronouns to people, he is a guy.
"I'm a guy, please refer to me as such."
Being trans is self-identifying as a gender other than the one you were assigned at birth…which is exactly what Yamato does. It's okay for people to stop identifying as such, of course (happens in real life all the time). Yamato as a character written by a nominally out-of-touch millionaire cishet author with poor understanding of gender (in general) or trans issues in a magazine published for children by a massive, multi-million dollar publishing company is extremely important because he is invariably giving some trans boy the representation he's likely never going to receive from his family or friends, let alone society, growing up. Oda's dragging his feet and lack of clarity is a major issue and we should be critical of him and Shueisha for their handling of these subjects in their massively popular work. To borrow a tired quote, "With great power comes great responsibility."
Honestly I think Kiku is truly transgender whereas Yamato is Oda just giving the character a quirk (albeit clumsy and somewhat tone def/offensive). Oda made sure to say that Kiku is biologically male but has the spirit of a maiden. That is pretty cut and dry there. Contrasted to Yamato who just seems portrayed as an overzealous fan of Oden and who's only emphasis of identification to the male gender is through being identified as Oden and we now learn was being referred to as demon princess beforehand. The story could just as easily go the direction of Yamato realizing that they don't have to be Oden to appreciate him and then no longer go by Oden.I mean no offense when I say this but I really don't think it's any deeper than that.
Oda's handling of Kiku is extremely problematic and shows a pretty lousy understanding of being transgender, so it really wouldn't surprise me if Oda doesn't know that transgender men exist, too. With Yamato being an admirer of Oden…trans people do this all the time? Plenty of us name ourselves after characters or people who played a big role in our understanding of who we are.
Oda wants to touch upon important subjects and political messages with his art and that's fine and dandy but it also requires him to have a degree of actual experience with, knowledge and understanding of these things. He's a millionaire, would it kill him to hire a few consultants? Or hell, check out these communities himself? Or just...not mystery box worthless shit and actually just outright explain his ideas beforehand through text? If Oda's intention was not for Yamato to be trans perhaps he should actually, I don't know, have the responsibility to make a clear statement beforehand? His platform is a very important one and he and the publisher should be aware of this without dropping all this weirdly vague bullshit like breadcrumbs on the way to a massive shit sandwich years down the line.
She/Her
Don't like the gender you were assigned at birth? Change it!
Want to be a girl? Click here!
What's gender dysphoria, you ask? Click here to find out!
-
Honestly I think Kiku is truly transgender whereas Yamato is Oda just giving the character a quirk (albeit clumsy and somewhat tone def/offensive). Oda made sure to say that Kiku is biologically male but has the spirit of a maiden. That is pretty cut and dry there. Contrasted to Yamato who just seems portrayed as an overzealous fan of Oden and who's only emphasis of identification to the male gender is through being identified as Oden and we now learn was being referred to as demon princess beforehand. The story could just as easily go the direction of Yamato realizing that they don't have to be Oden to appreciate him and then no longer go by Oden.I mean no offense when I say this but I really don't think it's any deeper than that.
Perfect summary of the whole Yamato thing, couldn't agree more.
Kiku is a born male with a "maiden at heart" mentality and that's okay.
Yamato will forget her Oden persona as soon as she leaves Wano with Luffy.
She won't identity herself as "male" later, because it won't serve any purpose in the long run.
She only admired her role model, Oden in a weird, goofy way. -
That's the thing, we don't know if Yamato will no longer "want to be Oden" and then go back to viewing himself as a girl. That's just an assumption to make (and of course, comes with its own baggage because that's a pretty similar trope to erasing any sort of LGTB representation by making them go back to the "norm").
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"I'm a guy, please refer to me as such."
Being trans is self-identifying as a gender other than the one you were assigned at birth…which is exactly what Yamato does. It's okay for people to stop identifying as such, of course (happens in real life all the time). Yamato as a character written by a nominally out-of-touch millionaire cishet author with poor understanding of gender (in general) or trans issues in a magazine published for children by a massive, multi-million dollar publishing company is extremely important because he is invariably giving some trans boy the representation he's likely never going to receive from his family or friends, let alone society, growing up. Oda's dragging his feet and lack of clarity is a major issue and we should be critical of him and Shueisha for their handling of these subjects in their massively popular work. To borrow a tired quote, "With great power comes great responsibility."
Oda's handling of Kiku is extremely problematic and shows a pretty lousy understanding of being transgender, so it really wouldn't surprise me if Oda doesn't know that transgender men exist, too. With Yamato being an admirer of Oden...trans people do this all the time? Plenty of us name ourselves after characters or people who played a big role in our understanding of who we are.
Oda wants to touch upon important subjects and political messages with his art and that's fine and dandy but it also requires him to have a degree of actual experience with, knowledge and understanding of these things. He's a millionaire, would it kill him to hire a few consultants? Or hell, check out these communities himself? Or just...not mystery box worthless shit and actually just outright explain his ideas beforehand through text? If Oda's intention was not for Yamato to be trans perhaps he should actually, I don't know, have the responsibility to make a clear statement beforehand? His platform is a very important one and he and the publisher should be aware of this without dropping all this weirdly vague bullshit like breadcrumbs on the way to a massive shit sandwich years down the line.
And I'll agree with you, I don't think Oda's qualified to touch this subject with the longest of poles. Handling this subject matter tactfully is difficult in general. But in terms of the authors intent I don't think it's anymore than "Lol Kaido's kid is calling themself by the name of Kaido's worst enemy" not a character embracing what they feel to be their true gender identity. It's more like, Yamato identifies as Oden who just happened to be male than Yamato identifies as a male and is named Oden. If Oden had been female it'd be the same to Yamato.
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Perfect summary of the whole Yamato thing, couldn't agree more.
Kiku is a born male with a "maiden at heart" mentality and that's okay.
Yamato will forget her Oden persona as soon as she leaves Wano with Luffy.
She won't identity herself as "male" later, because it won't serve any purpose in the long run.
She only admired her role model, Oden in a weird, goofy way.Nobody is born any gender or 'sex'.
She/Her
Don't like the gender you were assigned at birth? Change it!
Want to be a girl? Click here!
What's gender dysphoria, you ask? Click here to find out!
-
I don't think Japan has the same "woke" mindset in their pop culture that most western nations have (broad strokes). Like I don't believe (I could be wrong) they think that with big platform they have to be extra careful with things etc etc.
Of course, that gives them more freedom with their art to do different stuff without being fearful how fans react. It creates this really fascinating clash with the more, uh, "woke" anime and manga fans with the content they consume.
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I don't think Japan has the same "woke" mindset in their pop culture that most western nations have (broad strokes). Like I don't believe (I could be wrong) they think that with big platform they have to be extra careful with things etc etc.
Of course, that gives them more freedom with their art to do different stuff without being fearful how fans react. It creates this really fascinating clash with the more, uh, "woke" anime and manga fans with the content they consume.
You're acting like queer people and marginalized people don't exist in Japan. This is not true and also oddly at odds with the fact that, y'know, violence and depictions of nudity in media has changed over time. That's your so-called 'woke mindset' and being mindful of their platform at play right there.
Like, oh my gosh. Even in the west marginalized people are not excepted. That's why we're marginalized. I have to look over my shoulder any time I use a public restroom to make sure I'm not fucking assaulted. I have to make sure my mannerisms are hyper feminine and I appear as harmless as possible. My rights and my healthcare are constantly in danger of being taken from me not just by society but by my government. The west is not 'woke'.
Furthermore, marginalized people tend to make the most 'offensive' art imaginable. Plenty of your so-called 'woke' westerners are sex workers, create erotica or create Leftist art and participate in leftist politics that are considered offensive to the status quo. The point of contention here is that media–which is historically used by the cishet people who control the corporations that create and publish these works--is being used to send harmful and poorly researched depictions of marginalized people and concepts to a very large audience. Trans men especially have next to no media representation while trans women are often depicted as 'men in drag' (which the 'male with a maiden's heart' wording implies) or serial killers. Being trans is historically--both within fictional media and out--treated as a mental illness or not existing at all. So, for the implication to be that Yamato is a 'woman' who is 'pretending' to be a man--something that even cis men have self-identify as to actually be--carries not only a mark of transphobia towards trans men but also a mark of misogyny and paternalistically looking down on women.
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From which prison did Who’s Who escape? If it happened 11 years ago, it cannot be Impel Down
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I really don't have a dog in this fight, I was just trying to figure out why something so huge like One Piece can afford being so wacky when it comes to stuff some western fans would lose their shit over.
Like, there's stuff in One Piece (and other manga) that Marvel couldn't and wouldn't ever ever even try. It would cause fucking riots in the fandom.
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I really don't have a dog in this fight, I was just trying to figure out why something so huge like One Piece can afford being so wacky when it comes to stuff some western fans would lose their shit over.
Like, there's stuff in One Piece (and other manga) that Marvel couldn't and wouldn't ever ever even try. It would cause fucking riots in the fandom.
Reminder that the original Whitebeard Pirates used a swatiska in their flags, which Oda had to change afterwards because of its western connotations.
So One Piece is no stranger to that sorta thing. Oda will absolutely change his own art to avoid problematic stuff.
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Reminder that the original Whitebeard Pirates used a swatiska in their flags, which Oda had to change afterwards because of its western connotations.
So One Piece is no stranger to that sorta thing.
True. Good point!
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Reminder that the original Whitebeard Pirates used a swatiska in their flags, which Oda had to change afterwards because of its western connotations.
So One Piece is no stranger to that sorta thing.
I think it was a Manji, no?
But then the inverted tattoos some crew members like Marco have then would have been a Swastika.
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@Johnny:
I think it was a Manji, no?
But then the inverted tattoos some crew members like Marco have then would have been a Swastika.
For the eastern world, there's a distinction between the manji and the swatiska. But the western world doesn't know that for the most part.
If Oda changed that thing, it's because of western influence.
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Yeah, the right-tilted one (which is what the Nazis stole) represents the Sun and the left-tilted one represents the Moon.
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Here is some other info mainly Haki and Devil Fruit related:
All Stars
- All three can use Armament and Observation Haki.
Yamato
- Can use Armament and Observation Haki.
Eustass Kid
- Devil Fruit: Jiki Jiki no Mi (Actually named in Volume 99's SBS)
- Can use all three types of Haki.
Killer
- Can use Armament and Observation Haki.
Hawkins
- Can use Armament and Observation Haki.
Scratchmen Apoo
- Devil Fruit: Oto Oto no Mi
- Can use Armament and Observation Haki.
X Drake
- Can use Armament and Observation Haki.
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Nobody is born any gender or 'sex'.
That's your opinion, I accept it, but don't force on it others.
And don't dwell on this topic too much, especially when its about a fictional character.From my point of view the situation is clear:
Yamato has a goofy admiration for Oden, which is mixed with her defiance againt her father, but that's it.
People see a lot more into this whole thing than it actually is.Back to the topic:
These Vivre Cards were pretty good this time, we got a ton of info.
Let's hope we receive more from the new SBS and OP magazine. -
I will always find it endlessly funny how Oda by pure mistake created a character called Whitebeard who uses a swastika (but not really) as his logo.
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Reminder that the original Whitebeard Pirates used a swatiska in their flags, which Oda had to change afterwards because of its western connotations.
So One Piece is no stranger to that sorta thing. Oda will absolutely change his own art to avoid problematic stuff.
IIRC, Oda's weekly note about that made it sound like the request came from above and he complied, but didn't sound very happy about it.
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Quote
Yeah it's unfortunate, especially since OP has a pretty bad track record of portraying trans people, too.
I feel like the frustrating part is that now that the story at least seems to be trying to be better (Kiku and Yamato are actual characters that don't behave like stereotypes), I feel like it'll suck worse if the intention truly is "oh just emulating Oden". Why bring the guy/girl part in the first place, then? Just say 'I want to be like Oden' and that's it.
I'm hoping for the best, but with stuff like this Rebecca always comes to mind - who was set up to learn to stand up for herself, but then just ended up being an object to be rescued and only important as a proxy to her dad.
You can just introduce Yamato as a rebellious daughter (which in itself could make a cool female character), not add any of the potential 'being a guy' baggage and now ofc the extra material doesn't help.
I always hope for the best, but trends aren't very nice.
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That's your opinion, I accept it, but don't force on it others.
And don't dwell on this topic too much, especially on a fictional character.From my point of view the situation is clear:
Yamato has a goofy admiration for Oden, which is mixed with her defiance againt her father, but that's it.
People see a lot more into this whole thing than it actually is.Back to the topic:
These Vivre Cards were pretty good this time, we got a ton of info.
Let's hope we receive more from the new SBS and OP magazine.It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Nobody is born their gender, they're arbitrarily assigned one at birth by human beings who made up a classification system to group a few traits under.
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So many interesting things. The Onimaru 1, I love. Need more on Sasaki and Jack. Kaido and King were going to MF?????
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For the eastern world, there's a distinction between the manji and the swatiska. But the western world doesn't know that for the most part.
If Oda changed that thing, it's because of western influence.
Maybe someone remembered they used to be an axis power and decided it wasn't a great look
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it's feels weird to me when people say one piece's depiction of trans people is dangerours or harmful because it's what made me open to the entire idea back when i was 13
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Keep in mind the narrator box for Kiku said "her" in first appearance, and "him" in flashback.
It was a slow reveal that started with surface appearances to not be confusing, then clarified later when you had context for things.
The narrator, (and the vivre cards!) and presumably the advertising team, are biased towards first appearance and what's easier to show to the world at large.
This week is Yamato's big first appearance to the world beyond the manga. Manga readers have had time to grasp the "him" of it, but leading with that would be… confusing. When you start with saying him, that leads to questions of "Is this a devil fruit? A disguise? a Ivonokov thing?" so saying biological sex starting out makes sense to clear out those questions instantly, and then the story immediately clarifies the "son" part, from Yamato's own mouth.
And generally fans (and those that buy the sexy statues) are going to think of Yamato as her because that's how he looks, and it puts them at ease to know the parts are female, so they don't need to feel weird about thinking he looks nice when they get the merch or buy doujins or whatever..
Hell, manga readers have had over a year to figure this out and are still arguing about it.
Also keep in mind that vivre cards aren't perfect and have made multiple mistakes before, and that some characters get more than one card when something about their situation changes. Should Yamato become a strawhat, he'll certainly need another card later, and that one might roll a bit differently.
Hey, remember when the vivre cards said that character's name was Shilliew, because that's how it first appeared, and then like two weeks later in the actual manga Oda corrected it to Shiryu?
