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    Throughout this month, we will be testing new features (like search) so you may experience some hiccups from time to time. We'll try to not be too disruptive...

    Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

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    • Coookie
      Coookie @badwolf1234
      @badwolf1234 last edited by
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      @badwolf1234:

      One of the reasons why i dont enjoy reading "official translation" they rougly translates things like Zolo, Dogstorm and Cat Viper now look what happen to laugh tale also i remember Oz was used more often until it was revealed to be Oars

      Zolo was/is iirc a copyright issue in the US, Dogstorm and Cat Viper are instances of which Japanese names should be translated and which shouldn't, which is a preference issue with no one right answer. Laugh Tale is on Oda where an official romanization came decades after it was first mentioned, so for consistency's sake it's still Raftel offically and we have to keep in mind that Oda likes his Engrish (see Mary Geoise). As for Oz, I remember him being called Odz on Mangapanda for most of Thriller Bark until his name was seen on some sail.

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        Hisoga @joesephes
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        @joesephes:

        Are you freaking kidding me with this!? This has to be a retcon because it's been long established that Rokushiki is pure physical while Haki is spiritual with will power, which makes a lot of since really! Now all the sudden that's not the case anymore? I'm so confused. O_o

        since when haki that is based on Qi is a will power?
        the one that closest to will power is CoC.

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        • Robby
          Robby @Coookie
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          @Coookie:

          Zolo was/is iirc a copyright issue in the US, Dogstorm and Cat Viper are instances of which Japanese names should be translated and which shouldn't, which is a preference issue with no one right answer. Laugh Tale is on Oda where an official romanization came decades after it was first mentioned, so for consistency's sake it's still Raftel offically and we have to keep in mind that Oda likes his Engrish (see Mary Geoise). As for Oz, I remember him being called Odz on Mangapanda for most of Thriller Bark until his name was seen on some sail.

          My head canon is Roger called it Laugh Tale but the populace picked up on it as Raftel, because the general populace wasn't in on the joke. Either way it wasn't something Oda honed in on hard as something specific until the most recent movie, where he put out an English spelling and the characters began pronouncing it with more emphasis on that than they did previously. it was never pushed as a focus for the last 22 years. It may even be a thing where the ambiguity of the language is a case where it allowed Oda to sneak that in under the radar, possibly unplanned until recently. It wouldn't be the first time he's had wonkiness with the R/L thing, jike like Loguetown/Roguetown. It is meant to be like prologue or like thieves? It's… japanese, its both.

          A similar thing happened in Berserk where it turned out The Band of the Hawk was always intended to be Falcon, as the words are interchangeable in Japanese, but NO ONE caught on, not even the japanese staff or official merchandise or japanese artbooks, until Muira eventually did an obvious Star Wars Millennium Falcon joke like 20 years in.

          Language is fluid and no translation between two different languages is going to be perfect, but the team translating it currently are super passionate fans that used to be super big trusted regulars here, so Stephen's translation is going to be about as good as it gets, even if he's saddled with some decisions that were made before he took over.

          As for Dogstorm and Catviper, yeah, they fall into the same ambiguous space as Blackbeard and Whitebeard. Stepen was conflicted and specifically asked the Japanese editor about it. You don't change Nami's name to Wave, but physical descriptor names are a grey area when it comes to making sure it works in the other language's tongue. Because it loses a little something with Shirohige and Kurohige. An even weirder middleground is Kuma, where its his proper name and shouldn't be translated, but LOTS of bear jokes are made about him and that pun is completely lost in translation, so just maybe he should have been named Bartholomew Bear in English... but that one is an extreme outlier.

          As for Oars, even JAPANESE readers didn't understand what his name was, Oz, Ohz, Ozu, Ohrz, no one could figure it out, which is why the characters make a joke about it during Thriller Bark, and Oda then made it a point to have Oars III appear in english on a sail.

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          • Kaido King of the Beasts
            Kaido King of the Beasts @Flame
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            @Flame:

            • Pedro is confirmed dead ("age at death : 32")

            Let's goooooooooooo

            Spoiler:

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            • Johnny B. Decent
              Johnny B. Decent
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              I mean, even if he survived, with most of his soul gone, he's now like 80 plus years old, and keeps blowing himself up. He was gonna die soon, anyways.

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              • Nilitch
                Nilitch
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                I'm glad Pedro is confirmed dead. It was unpopular to say he was dead on AP, because of people who have been around here longer

                Every nation gets the government it deserves.–-- Joseph de Maistre

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                  loner89 @Johnny B. Decent
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                  @Johnny:

                  I mean, even if he survived, with most of his soul gone, he's now like 80 plus years old, and keeps blowing himself up. He was gonna die soon, anyways.

                  he can still be cloned by germa66, they have clone technology

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                  • Sengokusgoat
                    Sengokusgoat
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                    This doesn't really confirm his death anymore than the previous card (which had as the last point in the timeline him blowing himself up with dynamite).

                    Obviously he's officially meant to be dead. The question is whether that'll be subverted in the future like with so many others. It wouldn't be the first time a databook straight up lies about something like this. cough Sabo* cough

                    I mean, I see no real reason to bring Pedro back at this point, when his death was also reconfirmed in the manga at the end of Act 2. So maybe the fact that they're bothering to correct it (and not with others like Vergo and Monet) is an indication that it's for real. But it's still not a guarantee.

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                    • Shiebs
                      Shiebs
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                      Like how they said Sabo was dead?

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                        Blissed @Nilitch
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                        @Nilitch:

                        I'm glad Pedro is confirmed dead. It was unpopular to say he was dead on AP, because of people who have been around here longer

                        This is like the 3rd confirmation (as much as it can be for someone that blew up anyways) at this point haha

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                        • Captain M
                          Captain M @Robby
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                          @Robby:

                          My head canon is Roger called it Laugh Tale but the populace picked up on it as Raftel, because the general populace wasn't in on the joke. Either way it wasn't something Oda honed in on hard as something specific until the most recent movie, where he put out an English spelling and the characters began pronouncing it with more emphasis on that than they did previously. it was never pushed as a focus for the last 22 years. It may even be a thing where the ambiguity of the language is a case where it allowed Oda to sneak that in under the radar, possibly unplanned until recently. It wouldn't be the first time he's had wonkiness with the R/L thing, jike like Loguetown/Roguetown. It is meant to be like prologue or like thieves? It's… japanese, its both.

                          A similar thing happened in Berserk where it turned out The Band of the Hawk was always intended to be Falcon, as the words are interchangeable in Japanese, but NO ONE caught on, not even the japanese staff or official merchandise or japanese artbooks, until Muira eventually did an obvious Star Wars Millennium Falcon joke like 20 years in.

                          Language is fluid and no translation between two different languages is going to be perfect, but the team translating it currently are super passionate fans that used to be super big trusted regulars here, so Stephen's translation is going to be about as good as it gets, even if he's saddled with some decisions that were made before he took over.

                          As for Dogstorm and Catviper, yeah, they fall into the same ambiguous space as Blackbeard and Whitebeard. Stepen was conflicted and specifically asked the Japanese editor about it. You don't change Nami's name to Wave, but physical descriptor names are a grey area when it comes to making sure it works in the other language's tongue. Because it loses a little something with Shirohige and Kurohige. An even weirder middleground is Kuma, where its his proper name and shouldn't be translated, but LOTS of bear jokes are made about him and that pun is completely lost in translation, so just maybe he should have been named Bartholomew Bear in English... but that one is an extreme outlier.

                          As for Oars, even JAPANESE readers didn't understand what his name was, Oz, Ohz, Ozu, Ohrz, no one could figure it out, which is why the characters make a joke about it during Thriller Bark, and Oda then made it a point to have Oars III appear in english on a sail.

                          Lots of good points here, and I like the headcanon of the name shifting over time to the general populace, though it's a little rough that Crocus of all people was getting it wrong. You have to wonder if any of Oda's L/R misdirects are intentional at this point, using the Japanese language to keep it as a schrodinger's letter. As in, we weren't meant to have read it as Laugh Tale from the start, we were meant to be unsure even then if was ever going to be that. A version of the text that gives the true and unambiguous name of the final island away just after chapter 100 might not actually be what he intended. But unfortunately, English translation doesn't work that way, it requires you to commit to one version and one meaning in order to work.

                          Just as good in Berserk was twentyish years of going to see the elf ruler, described with a gender-neutral term in Japanese, translated confidently as the Elf King, then revealed at the end of the journey to be the Elf Queen instead. Whoops.

                          Dogstorm and Catviper for me could go either way at this point. Usually I'm all about keeping the descriptive names for the sake of capturing author intent, but it kinda doesn't matter because Oda hasn't done anything with them being that way. I don't recall any gags where a character is introduced to them and responds with "that's a weirdly literal name" or any other scene where you'd need to know what their names mean for it to work. Literally descriptive names aren't something any other mink uses (maybe Blackback I guess), but then again, neither are extremely Japanese-sounding names. There hasn't really been a single point in the text when the Englishness or Japaneseness of the dukes' names has mattered one iota.

                          Japan apparently still can't figure Oars out. The anime log collections for Thriller Bark, released years after the correct spelling was shown at Marineford in both anime and manga, still have him as Ohz on the cover. I think it just doesn't matter that much to the Japanese staff.

                          !

                          Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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                            KaidoBoby
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                            The Index Set
                            https://imgur.com/a/FChUDqK

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                            • Kishido
                              Kishido
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                              CP9 having haki pre skip is suprosing and at the same time not…

                              I have seen Luffy CoC pre skip and I have no doubts that some day we will learn that they used really basic haki pre skip as well in some special moments.

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                              • Captain M
                                Captain M @Kishido
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                                @Kishido:

                                CP9 having haki pre skip is suprosing and at the same time not…

                                I have seen Luffy CoC pre skip and I have no doubts that some day we will learn that they used really basic haki pre skip as well in some special moments.

                                There's a long list of moments I'd love to see confirmed as haki-related. Shanks scaring off the Lord of the Coast in chapter 1, Luffy finding the real Mr 3 on Little Garden via "instinct," basically everything about Zoro's fight with Mr 1 and of course Luffy's final round with Crocodile. I also feel like there's a few early conversations where "ambition" is mentioned in a way that could be read as actually referring to Haki, but I'm struggling to remember exactly when they were.

                                Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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                                • redon
                                  redon
                                  Envoy
                                  @redon
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                                  Got my One Piece Vivre Card Index Set today!!!

                                  Like other times, here you have a link with pictures of all Vivre Card files from new Index Set that I took today. Please give credits if you publish in other sites 😄

                                  https://www.sendspace.com/file/dqh7a7

                                  You can see some files here as example 😉


                                  !




                                  Twitter: https://twitter.com/Mugiwara_23

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                                  • R
                                    Rivaille
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                                    Thanks Redon😁

                                    French One Piece Fanfiction: http://www.jeuxvideo.com/forums/42-3…post_893839745

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                                    • King Cannon
                                      King Cannon @Robby
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                                      @Robby:

                                      My head canon is Roger called it Laugh Tale but the populace picked up on it as Raftel, because the general populace wasn't in on the joke. Either way it wasn't something Oda honed in on hard as something specific until the most recent movie, where he put out an English spelling and the characters began pronouncing it with more emphasis on that than they did previously. it was never pushed as a focus for the last 22 years. It may even be a thing where the ambiguity of the language is a case where it allowed Oda to sneak that in under the radar, possibly unplanned until recently. It wouldn't be the first time he's had wonkiness with the R/L thing, jike like Loguetown/Roguetown. It is meant to be like prologue or like thieves? It's… japanese, its both.

                                      Wasn't there an interview confirming that Laugh Tale was the spelling on Oda's head for a long time? I believed it was with one of the editors.

                                      https://www.oricon.co.jp/news/2148735/full/

                                      I can't translate it, but someone who knows Japanese will probably find it.

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                                      • Johnny B. Decent
                                        Johnny B. Decent @Captain M
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                                        @Captain:

                                        Little Oars Jr's height is revised from 3800cm to 6000cm.

                                        For those curious, Oars Jr. is about four times the size of a normal giant, but he's still a bit shorter then Grandpa Oars.

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                                          Artur
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                                          Interesting that the corrections basically gave us more new info than the Index Set itself.

                                          I really love these stickers, but I feel bad attaching even just one of them, since they are a one-time thing. After you attach them you can't remove them I assume, so I'm honestly tempted to just buy another pack (or two) to actually play around a little

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                                          • Cockycent
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                                            A couple thoughts about this Haki debacle. What does being a Haki user mean and what does it change about the W7/EL arc? Why do some fans think that because some in CP9 were Haki users, that their losses are concerning now?

                                            From my understanding, all living things have Haki, but once it's realized, the individual can become a user. So, when fans say "does this character have Haki", it doesn't make sense to me. The question is if they are a Haki user or not.

                                            Back to CP9. Lucci is said to be a Haki user pre-timeskip. Now, i'm guessing the concern is when was he using Haki and shouldn't he have beaten Luffy. My question is are all Haki users just supposed to be stronger than non Haki users? Remember that all living things have Haki and even if you aren't a user, your Haki can grow stronger. I'm aware that many may disagree with this, but it is a fact.

                                            Before it was confirmed that Teach was a Haki user in the Vivre Card, it was confirmed in the manga. In Impel Down, Teach remarked that Luffy's Haki is stronger than when they met during the Jaya arc. So, Teach can measure Haki through physical contact and no physical contact at all. The simple answer is that he's a Haki user.

                                            !
                                            I apologize if this is too blurry. "You're stronger than I thought and your Haki is stronger than the last time I saw you"

                                            This really doesn't change anything. There are many that said Sanji couldn't use CoA. I remember something about his suit from the wedding being cool to some because if he uses hardening, it'd be easy to tell. There are even some fans that believe if hardening isn't being used, it isn't CoA. To me, Haki is being explained to us at a fair pace and has been pretty clear too some capacity. Read some chapters more than once and from different translators. Having context is everything. Even is a translation is wrong, if you have more than 1 interpretation of it, you can have a better understanding of what is going on.

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                                            • RomanceDawn
                                              RomanceDawn @Cockycent
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                                              @Cockycent:

                                              A couple thoughts about this Haki debacle…

                                              Good post! I agree with most everything.

                                              I can buy that CP9 had some form of Haki. Especially Lucci's Six King Pistol, Rokugun? Looks like Luffy's Ryo Haki that he learned recently.

                                              I really like your thoughts about Teach explicitly telling us that Luffy has Haki, it had gotten stronger since Jaya, but he technically wasn't a user. At least not consciously. I never really thought it about it like that.

                                              Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯

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                                              • kouch_lee
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                                                Of course Haki users aren't automatically stronger than non-haki users. All Amazon Lily warriors use haki, yet they're all weaker than Luffy, even the Boa sisters (not including Hancock, of course), who made a big deal out of having master haki, ended up being overpowered once Luffy switched to Gear 2.

                                                I just guess the haki mastery of the CP9 agents pre-time skip wasn't that good, and even less when compared to the levels we see now that we're nearing the endgame and the head honchos are expected to create forcefields out of thin air, kill people from the inside, see the future and insane stuff like that.

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                                                • wolfwood
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                                                  It all amounts to that Darth Vader killed your father switchero where you've written yourself into a corner and need to circle back to cover your ass. So sure CP9 "had" haki and just never used it or indicated any knowledge of it

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                                                  • RevolutionaryOfThe6Paths
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                                                    This new revalation (puts some things into perspective for me. It's perfectly clear now just how insane it is for Luffy to learn the haki basics in only two years. It has been said numerous times in the manga but now i truly get it. It's also clear why Oda decided to make Zoro be the first one to grasp haki. It makes sense for a sworsman, who exclusively focuses on training his mind and body to have a higher change of learning CoO and CoA (and that indirectly makes Luffy look even more insane).There's an internal logic and consistency there that i appreciate. This is also one reason for why haki is a really good power system because it gives off the impression that anyone, even a normal human, might be able to do it, to an extent

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                                                    • Greg
                                                      Greg
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                                                      @Shiebs:

                                                      Like how they said Sabo was dead?

                                                      Beautiful.

                                                      Yeah, I don't care whether Pedro is dead or not, the important thing is, Oda isn't treating him with a wink and a nudge so if he's alive, it's actually surprising. That's all we ever wanted, to be handled like critical readers of at least high school level, not 4th and 5th graders.

                                                      No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                                      • Shiebs
                                                        Shiebs @Greg
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                                                        Does Aokiji's card say something about his connection with Black Beard?

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                                                        • Monquito
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                                                          So, whats's up with this now? any news of new releases?, if Big Mom and Newgate got their own color themes, I suppose Kaido is going to get his, once his full crew is revealed.

                                                          Also, if there's an eleventh members joining the StrawHats, will this guy just share cards with The Going Merry?

                                                          Also, Also, I just realized how conflictive X Drake card is, he can perfectly get Yellow for the Worst Gens, Blue for the Marines, and whatever color the Beast Pirates get.

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                                                            KaidoBoby @Monquito
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                                                            @Monquito:

                                                            if Big Mom and Newgate got their own color themes, I suppose Kaido is going to get his, once his full crew is revealed.

                                                            It’s green

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                                                            • Monquito
                                                              Monquito @KaidoBoby
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                                                              @KaidoBoby:

                                                              It’s green
                                                              https://i.ibb.co/L8KHb45/B616-A8-DD-C625-41-E1-A942-F87837-D17-CB1.jpg

                                                              Oh thanks I didn't even know that.
                                                              wow, Drake could be given Yellow, Green and Blue, and they all work perfectly on him.

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                                                              • Kaizoku_Ou
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                                                                Hmm I have always thought of Tekkai as haki even though Oda denied it in SBS and said the two where different. Lol can't take all of his sbs answered seriously, not the first time he mislead with answers.

                                                                Zoro vs. Caesar

                                                                Don Noflamingo vs. Robowarden

                                                                Luffy vs Akainu (fan made manga)

                                                                The Birth of Frank aka FFotSDMDBeB: First fist of the Sea, DonMarimo DoBuggino exploring Bonesbeard.

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                                                                  silver_planet @Kaizoku_Ou
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                                                                  @Kaizoku_Ou:

                                                                  Hmm I have always thought of Tekkai as haki even though Oda denied it in SBS and said the two where different. Lol can't take all of his sbs answered seriously, not the first time he mislead with answers.

                                                                  which sbs did he denied it?i forgot which one.

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                                                                    ea77 @silver_planet
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                                                                    @silver_planet:

                                                                    which sbs did he denied it?i forgot which one.

                                                                    Nowhere. It's a false memory.

                                                                    #Vergoshotfirst #Doflaisapunk

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                                                                    • RomanceDawn
                                                                      RomanceDawn @Kaizoku_Ou
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                                                                      @Kaizoku_Ou:

                                                                      Hmm I have always thought of Tekkai as haki even though Oda denied it in SBS and said the two where different. Lol can't take all of his sbs answered seriously, not the first time he mislead with answers.

                                                                      I think the only time Oda denied something was Haki was Garp's Fist of Love. It was assumed that Haki was all it was but maybe people with strong familial relationships have some sort of affect over one another. This love condition disrupts fruits powers and doesn't allow for natural defenses to work.

                                                                      For example Akainu's grandma could probably slap the ship out of em even in full lava form. Sure she'd melt her hand in the process but she'd put the fear of God in him!

                                                                      Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯

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                                                                        When Nami punishes Luffy his face also gets swollen.
                                                                        I think Oda is trying to imply that love can overwrite any sort of defense because it's striking the spirit not just the body.
                                                                        If Garp wanted/needed to knock out Luffy he would use haki but if he just wants to say Hi and/or call him a dumbshit, he just smacks him with intent.

                                                                        Also, thank you for that Akainu example. It put a smile on my face.

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                                                                        • Kaizoku_Ou
                                                                          Kaizoku_Ou @ea77
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                                                                          @ea77:

                                                                          Nowhere. It's a false memory.

                                                                          lol Yours, that is. I'll link to it

                                                                          –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                          Lol after a few minutes of skimming through SBS corners with mentiones of Tekkai I only found stuff like "do Kalifa's breast giggle when she use Tekkai" or "will I get harder if I use tekkai"..etc😁
                                                                          Someone with better searching skills than me can try to pinpoint that HakixTekkai sbs question if they're that interested.

                                                                          --- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                          @RomanceDawn:

                                                                          I think the only time Oda denied something was Haki was Garp's Fist of Love. It was assumed that Haki was all it was but maybe people with strong familial relationships have some sort of affect over one another. This love condition disrupts fruits powers and doesn't allow for natural defenses to work.

                                                                          Pretty sure he was asked if Tekkai was Haki, not sure if it was an SBS question or during an interview, someone with more OP knowledge can confirm or deny this. From my memory Oda's answer was something like "No, it is different technique. Tekkai is the result of their hard training since young age…etc" He made it sound like the six forms were unrelated to haki.

                                                                          Zoro vs. Caesar

                                                                          Don Noflamingo vs. Robowarden

                                                                          Luffy vs Akainu (fan made manga)

                                                                          The Birth of Frank aka FFotSDMDBeB: First fist of the Sea, DonMarimo DoBuggino exploring Bonesbeard.

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                                                                            silver_planet @Kaizoku_Ou
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                                                                            @Kaizoku_Ou:

                                                                            Lol after a few minutes of skimming through SBS corners with mentiones of Tekkai I only found stuff like "do Kalifa's breast giggle when she use Tekkai" or "will I get harder if I use tekkai"..etc😁
                                                                            Someone with better searching skills than me can try to pinpoint that HakixTekkai sbs question if they're that interested.

                                                                            haha, i ask because i do not have much time since got to work, maybe i can check on it later after work, i guess

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                                                                            • Captain M
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                                                                              I don't recalls haki/iron body ever coming up in an sbs and I feel like I've got a pretty good memory for these things. Could be wrong, but I don't think it's come up.

                                                                              My feeling is that it's canon that CP9 all had haki, but that doesn't mean that the Six Powers techniques are haki. Given that haki is a skill based on ambition and willpower best developed and improved through battles, it makes sense to try to awaken it through the discipline and practice of a martial art. It makes sense that the World Government, wanting its agents to have haki, would develop a martial art with skills similar to haki techniques (not just iron body and finger pistols either, the often-forgotten paper art dodging is pretty reminiscent of the narrow dodges a lot of CoO users pull off) among other useful things specifically as a way to power up their agents and sailors.

                                                                              Incidentally, this headcanon is why I like the English translation for the skill names. They're simple, utilitarian and descriptive. That makes more sense for a slightly cynical government-designed haki-precursor training, rather than leaving them in the cool and foreign-sounding original Japanese like a proper, traditional martial art might deserve. But again, all of that is just me speculating and extrapolating based on the little bits of info we do have.

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                                                                                silver_planet @Captain M
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                                                                                @Captain:

                                                                                I don't recalls haki/iron body ever coming up in an sbs and I feel like I've got a pretty good memory for these things. Could be wrong, but I don't think it's come up.

                                                                                My feeling is that it's canon that CP9 all had haki, but that doesn't mean that the Six Powers techniques are haki. Given that haki is a skill based on ambition and willpower best developed and improved through battles, it makes sense to try to awaken it through the discipline and practice of a martial art. It makes sense that the World Government, wanting its agents to have haki, would develop a martial art with skills similar to haki techniques (not just iron body and finger pistols either, the often-forgotten paper art dodging is pretty reminiscent of the narrow dodges a lot of CoO users pull off) among other useful things specifically as a way to power up their agents and sailors.

                                                                                Incidentally, this headcanon is why I like the English translation for the skill names. They're simple, utilitarian and descriptive. That makes more sense for a slightly cynical government-designed haki-precursor training, rather than leaving them in the cool and foreign-sounding original Japanese like a proper, traditional martial art might deserve. But again, all of that is just me speculating and extrapolating based on the little bits of info we do have.

                                                                                i think i kinda agree with you, i think all character have haki, only HOW they use it differ from others, like how they call it ryuo in wano, mantra in sky island, rokushiki (as a technique consist of 6) and haki as overall, so, its up to our own interpretation on how we want to understand what oda present to us…

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                                                                                  Shiebs @silver_planet
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                                                                                  If CP9 had Haki why didn’t they hurt Luffy with there finger pistol? It should have worked like it regularly does, but in the manga on other people, it’s obvious it didn’t effect Luffy like it does normal non rubber people

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                                                                                    Captain M @Shiebs
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                                                                                    @Shiebs:

                                                                                    If CP9 had Haki why didn’t they hurt Luffy with there finger pistol? It should have worked like it regularly does, but in the manga on other people, it’s obvious it didn’t effect Luffy like it does normal non rubber people

                                                                                    Luffy does seem to visibly be in pain from Lucci's finger pistol and definitely takes damage from Lucci's blunt physical strikes later on. Hard to justify that without a little haki.

                                                                                    He's still made of rubber, even when being hit with haki, so it makes sense something as blunt as a finger wouldn't break the skin like it does for other people.

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                                                                                    • Shiebs
                                                                                      Shiebs @Captain M
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                                                                                      @Captain:

                                                                                      Luffy does seem to visibly be in pain from Lucci's finger pistol and definitely takes damage from Lucci's blunt physical strikes later on. Hard to justify that without a little haki.

                                                                                      He's still made of rubber, even when being hit with haki, so it makes sense something as blunt as a finger wouldn't break the skin like it does for other people.

                                                                                      I think if it actually had Haki in it it would break through the skin same as how it always does when ever it’s used on anyone else outside of Luffy

                                                                                      You can clearly see his skins reacting the same way it does when he is shot with bullets, they just don’t bounce back

                                                                                      That’s just my opinion though I don’t personally think the six powers have anything to do with Haki, especially if Oda stated in an SBS that they don’t, like others have said (though no one seems to be able to find the source)

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                                                                                        Captain M @Shiebs
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                                                                                        @Shiebs:

                                                                                        I think if it actually had Haki in it it would break through the skin same as how it always does when ever it’s used on anyone else outside of Luffy

                                                                                        You can clearly see his skins reacting the same way it does when he is shot with bullets, they just don’t bounce back

                                                                                        That’s just my opinion though I don’t personally think the six powers have anything to do with Haki, especially if Oda stated in an SBS that they don’t, like others have said (though no one seems to be able to find the source)

                                                                                        Oda's been pretty vague with the exact limits of both haki and Luffy's rubber resistances so far, so I'm not gonna fight too hard to tell anyone else their reading is wrong until he gives us something more concrete to go off.

                                                                                        For me, I just don't see why haki would make it do that. Not even being completely submerged in water changes the fundamentals of Luffy's body, which make it naturally resistant to anything without a blade or a point on it, so there's not much reason haki would either. The only thin that's definitely made Luffy's body behave like a normal person has been Blackbeard's powers when he grabbed Luffy. (I could be wrong, but I don't think it's ever been shown concretely if Luffy's body still stretches while in contact with seasone; I think it would, he just wouldn't have the energy to do it himself, but that's speculation until otherwise stated. We've seen contact with a coating of haki cause Luffy pain and in some cases (clashing with Katakuri and Garp's fist of love) localised swelling, but it's still never completely neutralised his rubber attributes. That's just what seems to make the most sense.

                                                                                        The inconsistency even here is that Luffy will sometimes get a split lip or a blood nose from a blunt attack from an apparently-haki wielding opponent (Lucci's kick in the head and Doflamingo's first punch in the face most prominently, and blood around his nose also seemed to appear and disappear at random during the Katakuri fight), which really shouldn't work unless the haki was somehow bypassing the rubber. I'm willing to chalk it up to things just being more dramatic when Luffy bleeds but yeah, who's really to say at this point?

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                                                                                        • Zeorn
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                                                                                          You seem to think of rubber as being sort of invincible unless Haki is involved and that just isn't the case. One simple way to beat Luffy, back him up against a wall or something that won't let him stretch and punch or stab him. If you punch him his body will bend and stretch around your hand until it reaches the wall and then stop. Even if you claimed it wouldn't hurt his skin as long as you punch with enough speed you could crush all his internal organs and he'd have to receive all that force.

                                                                                          There is also the fact that elasticity has limits. Take for example a car that crashes into a wall or barrier. If the wall is made of stone or something unyielding it will absorb the total force of the car on impact with destructive results. If you create a barrier that yields like those barrels full of water stacked behind each other on the highway every barrel will absorb some of the force before giving-way, extending the time of the crash and displacing the force over a longer period of time and larger area. The car will slow down and dissipate its force into the barrels before it breaks through them and comes into contact with a pillar or something.

                                                                                          Um, my point was that something with enough speed and power can break through an elastic barrier so if we knew the elasticity of Luffy's body all we would have to do was use a technique whose force and velocity could overwhelm it in an instant.

                                                                                          The other part of elasticity having limits is that it can't stretch forever, once it reaches its limit it can't store any more energy and the internal structure will start to rupture and tear starting with the shortest and thinnest pieces (maybe Luffy's capillaries for example).

                                                                                          Avatar Artist: Aapo Niemi

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                                                                                          • Captain M
                                                                                            Captain M @Zeorn
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                                                                                            @Zeorn:

                                                                                            You seem to think of rubber as being sort of invincible unless Haki is involved and that just isn't the case. One simple way to beat Luffy, back him up against a wall or something that won't let him stretch and punch or stab him. If you punch him his body will bend and stretch around your hand until it reaches the wall and then stop. Even if you claimed it wouldn't hurt his skin as long as you punch with enough speed you could crush all his internal organs and he'd have to receive all that force.

                                                                                            There is also the fact that elasticity has limits. Take for example a car that crashes into a wall or barrier. If the wall is made of stone or something unyielding it will absorb the total force of the car on impact with destructive results. If you create a barrier that yields like those barrels full of water stacked behind each other on the highway every barrel will absorb some of the force before giving-way, extending the time of the crash and displacing the force over a longer period of time and larger area. The car will slow down and dissipate its force into the barrels before it breaks through them and comes into contact with a pillar or something.

                                                                                            Um, my point was that something with enough speed and power can break through an elastic barrier so if we knew the elasticity of Luffy's body all we would have to do was use a technique whose force and velocity could overwhelm it in an instant.

                                                                                            The other part of elasticity having limits is that it can't stretch forever, once it reaches its limit it can't store any more energy and the internal structure will start to rupture and tear starting with the shortest and thinnest pieces (maybe Luffy's capillaries for example).

                                                                                            Not invincible, just extremely resistant to any blunt impact or crushing. It's part of the mechanics of Gear Two that his rubber veins and organs are able to keep from rupturing from the extreme blood pressure. At Little Garden, he gets squashed under the giant skull. Look at the size of that thing and imagine how much it must weigh, and it's placed down right along the middle of his torso. If Luffy's organs were crushable, that's the thing that would have done it. I know that rubber and other elastics in real life can be damaged more easily with enough force or putting it against a hard surface, but when has Oda ever played by the rules of real world physics?

                                                                                            It's like how Luffy beat Enel. Real science says that rubber with that kind of current in it would heat up and be in more danger of breaking, not act as a hard counter, but this world runs on pokemon battle strength/weakness/resistance logic. So it goes for elasticity vs blunt impacts.

                                                                                            Of course, there's no hard limit. Luffy's resilience to any given blow is going to be as high or as low as the plot requires (see the huge blood loss issue from Hody's bite attack but nothing of the sort from the through and through wounds from Crocodile or Lucci, or the spear blow from Katakuri), but for the moment, Oda has painted a picture of a pretty extreme level of suitability.

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                                                                                            • Zeorn
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                                                                                              Yeah, I'm crazy and just like to think how these obviously magical powers should at least try to stay within the realm of physics but I obviously gave up on thinking that physics would somewhat play a part in how things might work long ago.

                                                                                              It's still fun to think about what having a rubber body bound by the laws of physics would be like or however other powers or plot points would be changed. Like can Kizaru really reach light-speed because that presents a bunch of problems.

                                                                                              Also, what about Blueno's doors and his door pocket-universe. How long can he stay in there? How many doors can he open at a time? Can he trap someone in there and leave them? Is it the upside-down from Stranger Things and if so where are the monsters?

                                                                                              Anyway, physics and science mean nothing, Vegapunk and Franky are really just wizards.

                                                                                              Avatar Artist: Aapo Niemi

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                                                                                              • Captain M
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                                                                                                Sometimes it can be fun to try and problem solve with powers that stick inside hard rules and realistic interactions. Other times you just say fuck it and don't let science get in the way of a good story. I'm fine with Oda going for the latter. He does it well, and there's more than enough other stories that are better suited to realism doing things the other way. At least until the most dramatic thing is a realistic, grounded consequence to blood loss or a super massive impact or something.

                                                                                                That kind of narrative convenience is also why I try to stay out of power level and who'd beat who kind of discussions. You can tally up feats or whatever and try to make a perfectly calculated mathematical tier list, but when it comes down to it, the story is king. If someone weak needs to beat someone strong they'll either get stronger or be smarter during the fight. Just like with physics, apparent relative strength levels only matter when it's interesting for them to do so, and that's fine. That's just how storytelling be.

                                                                                                I do like those Blueno questions though. They could be fun to explore. Imagine he tricks someone big and scary inside and just leaves them there. Can never go in again for fear of death. Friends of whoever he trapped assume if he gets KO'd or killed everything inside the pocket dimension will fall out just like how Sugar's stuff was undone. Blueno's power is definitely one of the great abstract ones that had a lot more potential than it had time to show.

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                                                                                                  Cockycent @Captain M
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                                                                                                  @Captain:

                                                                                                  That kind of narrative convenience is also why I try to stay out of power level and who'd beat who kind of discussions. You can tally up feats or whatever and try to make a perfectly calculated mathematical tier list, but when it comes down to it, the story is king. If someone weak needs to beat someone strong they'll either get stronger or be smarter during the fight.

                                                                                                  Probably have said it a million times. Power scaling discussions are pointless and makes no sense. People put strength depiction over everything and lose their mind if a character that they felt was strong is slapped once. It's madness. 6 hour streams of screaming at each over Shanks vs Mihawk is embarrassing. The fans of these personalities run to forums and it gets even worse

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                                                                                                    Luckily I never cared about power levels. Hardly means anything when Nami regularly beats the crew to a pulp or when any single person with fruit powers could lose if someone just outwits them with seawater or seastone. In the end Oda does what he wants because it is cool or funny and serves the plot.

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                                                                                                      ea77 @Kaizoku_Ou
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                                                                                                      @Kaizoku_Ou:

                                                                                                      Yours, that is. I'll link to it
                                                                                                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                                      Lol after a few minutes of skimming through SBS corners with mentiones of Tekkai I only found stuff like "do Kalifa's breast giggle when she use Tekkai" or "will I get harder if I use tekkai"..etc😁
                                                                                                      Someone with better searching skills than me can try to pinpoint that HakixTekkai sbs question if they're that interested.

                                                                                                      --- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                                      Pretty sure he was asked if Tekkai was Haki, not sure if it was an SBS question or during an interview, someone with more OP knowledge can confirm or deny this. From my memory Oda's answer was something like "No, it is different technique. Tekkai is the result of their hard training since young age...etc" He made it sound like the six forms were unrelated to haki.

                                                                                                      Take as long as you want. I've read every SBS recently ❤

                                                                                                      #Vergoshotfirst #Doflaisapunk

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                                                                                                      • The B-Mack
                                                                                                        The B-Mack @ea77
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                                                                                                        Have they announced when the next Vivre Card booster (Wano?) will come out yet?

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