LOL, man, best ending to a chapter in a while. It must take some serious restraint on Sabo's part not to just stab that little wanker in the back right there. I wasn't sure the Revolutionaries were close enough to the whole thing to get all their people in position like that yet but the fat guy who bends stone like a blanket is hiding in the mountainside, Crow dude is split apart into his drones and Sabo's in disguise right behind his childhood usurper. I hope Sabo's pop is proud of all that he's wrought.
Chapter 905: A Beautiful World
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@Monkey:
Amazon Lily isn't part of the world government, so I don't think Hancock who'd be authorized to participate at the reverie. (but maybe Doflamingo who'd be able to come if he was still king of dressrosa and shichibukai)
And if I'm not mistaken, it's port on the side of paradise that we have seen : https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/one-piece-2/en/0/905/page/5
You're not mistaken, I was! thanks for the link Well either not all the contingents have arrived on the same side or we just didn't get to see Vivi & Dalton arrive.
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Even if technically it doesn't make sense to use Soru to punch faster, I always understood it as a one-package deal.
The pumping makes him able to move faster. So he punch and kick fast. Soru is kicking 10 times in one second(or something close). Luffy saw the technique and used his speed to copy that. So gear 2nd give him kick attacks but the soru technique makes him also able to move fast in a effective.
But Luffy's first fight against Lucci was really fast and Luffy was surprised by Rokushiki. The only dumb/convenient thing is Lucci launching Luffy kilometers away from the fight to end it quickly, not that Luffy didn't go all out at that moment.
You can retroactively justify it. It's not incoherent. But at the time when Luffy was beaten there was no hint he had been working in solution to beat Aokiji or that he had some gas left. The Aokiji thing had happen like 2 days before. So when after the fight were he got destroyed the solution was weeeell I actually still have that technique never hinted at that will close the gap it becames an asspull.
It's because Hell Memories is not that different "logical-wise" than Diable Jamble to me, so the nonsense was already planted back then
Diable Jambe is friction producing heat. Hell memory is being mad producing fire. I think their is a difference between the 2. One is based on logic the other is based on cartoons.
even more so with Sanji starting to burn up even more during comical moments (and OP has this thing of making the nonsense comedy actually translate into the serious moments, it just depends on how much you evaluate each moment).
When jokes become serious they are given serious reason. The fist of love work because haki not because love is the strongest feeling ever.
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2 days
It was stated to be four days in order for Luffy and Robin to recover.
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Also Luffy did foreshadow his gears when he was on the train to save Robin.
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The exact quote being "I've got a move I wanna try out too…."
Of course you can play the semantics game, and say that he doesn't specify gears, but the hint is still there.
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It was stated to be four days in order for Luffy and Robin to recover.
Thank you I was going for an approximation but it always good to be more precise.
Also Luffy did foreshadow his gears when he was on the train to save Robin.
The exact quote being "I've got a move I wanna try out too…."
Sanji's is even worse because at least you can argue that Luffy has free time, loves to fight and foreshadowed it on the train. I think all of those are excuses but at least you can argue them.
A quote to not seem like I'm trying to save face. I remember that moment(which is why I say Sanji is the worst offense)
Of course you can play the semantics game, and say that he doesn't specify gears, but the hint is still there.
My problem is that the hint happen way after Lucci had proven much to powerful. And a negligeable time before Blueno.
I mean he freaking says it in the same chapter he arrives at Ennias Lobby and 7 chapters before meeting Blueno. Are you really tring to tell me that it isn't an asspull because Oda did it 5 minutes before the fight?
It's waaay after Lucci so the whole I suddenly have a technique is a sudden reveal because it was not hinted during the fight or even right after it was "hinted" right before the magical solution appear. It's not 21 months pregnancy bad but it is bad.
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Why does the 20+ month pregnancy thing make some fans pretty mad? I heard someone on the last OPP moan when it was mentioned! It's just a silly situation, in a silly fantasy manga. Why somethings have to make sense, while others don't?
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Is there someone mad that Ryokugyu can feast for 3 years or we have to wait if that doesn't come directly from a DF?
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Zoro defeating Mr 1 and asura are reasons I can't get into this nakama. The kuma one was bullsht too, there is no way he could survive that.
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Maybe Zoro is just a really tough dude?
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so…what if Green Bull is...GIN!?!!? Gin was shown to be pretty strong but misguided. He ate sanji's food about 3 years ago in story (if east blue and paradise took about 10 months, it makes sense), which would be a fitting last meal to have. maybe he found a devil fruit soon after their encounter and joined the marines during the draft? just spitballin'
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You can retroactively justify it. It's not incoherent. But at the time when Luffy was beaten there was no hint he had been working in solution to beat Aokiji or that he had some gas left. The Aokiji thing had happen like 2 days before. So when after the fight were he got destroyed the solution was weeeell I actually still have that technique never hinted at that will close the gap it becames an asspull.
I'm not saying it's incoherent and I definitely have no problems with how things were written, although a little convenient in some points. We just have to fill the gaps instead of what I call "reading while holding a gun in the author's head" for him to make everyhting in plain sight for the sake of it.
Diable Jambe is friction producing heat. Hell memory is being mad producing fire. I think their is a difference between the 2. One is based on logic the other is based on cartoons.
Friction that produces blazing hot heat that kinda fuses with his leg without ever burning him (because he's a cook?) and then the flame extinguish when he wants to. The logic is veeeery stretched here and it's totally cartoonish. It's not better than the logic "my spirit burns / when something burns, there's fire / therefore my body burns too", which is cohesive, but the premises are false/metaphorical.
When jokes become serious they are given serious reason. The fist of love work because haki not because love is the strongest feeling ever.
There are many examples. Usopp being more negative than negative ghosts, nosebleeds (a metaphor/gag about being horny) actually being real enough to make you lose too much blood, biting your finger and blowing air into your bones so that your punches will become stronger (cartoonish as hell, because it should be weaker) and the overall attitude/silliness of many characters during serious moments.
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@uniaka:
Zoro defeating Mr 1 and asura are reasons I can't get into this nakama. The kuma one was bullsht too, there is no way he could survive that.
It's just doesn't add up and creates inconstancies. Mr 1 defeat was a borderline ass-pull since we knew he was trying to achieve that ability. And we also know he did that with some kind of a haki. And in One Piece universe, no one just taps into a zen state and uses Haki abilities. But… That wasn't purely haki as well. So it's borderline whatever-you-call-it.
Kuma one isn't bullshit but makes him overly strong. Too strong then story allows him to be I'd say. But if Oda deemed Zoro to be that strong, he is.
And the problem with Zoro is, without a doubt, his character. Oda ruined Zoro.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@yo:
so…what if Green Bull is...GIN!?!!? Gin was shown to be pretty strong but misguided. He ate sanji's food about 3 years ago in story (if east blue and paradise took about 10 months, it makes sense), which would be a fitting last meal to have. maybe he found a devil fruit soon after their encounter and joined the Anymarines during the draft? just spitballin'
I find any stories of this kind ridicilous. No side character could potentially grow exponentially more than our protagonists. Especially to the point, he is Admiral level already.
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I legit can't even remember anything about Gin besides his design and weapon.
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Maybe Zoro is just a really tough dude?
And he's not fruit user. If Straw hats are going to do something in that world,maybe it's good idea they have a non fruit user as strong as Garp at least…
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@Myu:
And the problem with Zoro is, without a doubt, his character. Oda ruined Zoro.
His what ? :ninja:
I'd probably need a thorough re-read to get a better picture, but I have this disturbing impression that the last time Zoro showed any character at all was back in Water Seven when he opposed Usopp's return. There were a couple interactions with Tashigi in Punk Hazard and of course casting aside his pride to ask for Mihawk's teaching, but other than that nothing memorable; he's mostly been reacting to what happens around him or bickering with Sanji, plus the occasional no-sense-of-direction joke.Maybe I'm misremembering things because we haven't seen him for a while, but right now I'd find even Katakuri more humane after his fight with Luffy and interaction with his siblings (and boy did he start with a handicap). Zoro…has been mostly stoic, at least that's how he's imprinted in my memories.
Is it weird that I'm perceiving him like this ?
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His what ? :ninja:
I'd probably need a thorough re-read to get a better picture, but I have this disturbing impression that the last time Zoro showed any character at all was back in Water Seven when he opposed Usopp's return.What about Thriller Bark?
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If growing more serious means losing character depth than I guess we can say that since the timeskip chopper is the most deep character in the series
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What about Thriller Bark?
Ah, true, that came after W7 and he fared decently in Thriller Bark. Maybe it's really the post-timeskip Zoro who is making such a poor impression on me.
But as I said, fuzzy memories. I probably need a re-read at this point in order to judge based on facts and not just reconstructed subjective elements. -
Ah, true, that came after W7 and he fared decently in Thriller Bark. Maybe it's really the post-timeskip Zoro who is making such a poor impression on me.
But as I said, fuzzy memories. I probably need a re-read at this point in order to judge based on facts and not just reconstructed subjective elements.I think it's more he's shown less in general rather than his character being changed. He was kind of a goofball/lively guy in the beginning of dressrosa but we cut away from him for dozens of chater and then he finished it all with a badass slash and quip so that's all that's remembered.
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I was never a huge Zoro fan, but I think he was "fine" during Fishman Island and Punk Hazard, it was only from Dressrosa onward that became a brick. It's just that Punk Hazard ended 200+ chapters ago, over five years. Hard to remember the okay old days.
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I was never a huge Zoro fan, but I think he was "fine" during Fishman Island and Punk Hazard, it was only from Dressrosa onward that became a brick. It's just that Punk Hazard ended 200+ chapters ago, over five years.
Punk Hazard Early Dressrosa was the most lively he was and tbh he never really showed up in focus afterward. He had a final battle that while remembered only for the final slash he did have a comedic run-through of what his plan should be, called out orlumbus and hey "commodore of whatever" and told him to throw him like a ball. After everyone separated he didnt get a ton of screentime in dressrosa and he took charge to offer his ideas of what the crew should do in regards to sanji, and tried to one up luffy's estimation of him. He had more screentime pre-timeskip so he was remembered for more than his badass feats than he is now but he's still had a number of good moments in the new world.
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Friction that produces blazing hot heat that kinda fuses with his leg without ever burning him (because he's a cook?) and then the flame extinguish when he wants to. The logic is veeeery stretched here and it's totally cartoonish. It's not better than the logic "my spirit burns / when something burns, there's fire / therefore my body burns too", which is cohesive, but the premises are false/metaphorical.
There's a difference between science-fiction and magic/cartoon. One takes what we know and goes a little further the other does wathever. Sanji using friction to make his legs hot is science fiction. It gives an explanation for why it can happen. It's like saying rubber not burning from Enel magic is cartoonish rather than exaggerating known science. Sanji bursting in flames is just cartoon logic.
There are many examples. Usopp being more negative than negative ghosts, nosebleeds (a metaphor/gag about being horny) actually being real enough to make you lose too much blood, biting your finger and blowing air into your bones so that your punches will become stronger (cartoonish as hell, because it should be weaker) and the overall attitude/silliness of many characters during serious moments.
A df fruit having a weakness is not a cartoon.
Nosebleed is after the timeskip and like I said only proves that Oda decided cartoon was fine now.
The logic of gear third is pumping air into the bones to a make it has big and powerful as giants hand. -
My rereading of the series has been irregular but for the most part I agree with Long John. To me Zoro's felt the same as he always has, a normally stoic guy who comedically reacts to crazy shit people do and is cocky around enemies, with the occasional honorable/smart moment. He had some good moments on Zou like reminding his crew that they have to mind what's on their plate besides Sanji and also his tsundere moment for Sanji. The biggest problem, in addition to him being out of focus for the past while, is that he hasn't met very many challenges. Hyouzou and Monet did nothing but bore him and, although Pica gave him a challenge and some pretty good interactions arose from that, their fight was paced really poorly and not a lot of it was in focus. I enjoyed Zoro a lot in Dressrosa when he got screentime because most of the things he encountered threw him for a loop, so if his challenges at Wano can actually get good focus, I think I will enjoy Zoro like I always have.
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The fire does fit nicely into his cook motif.
And it really doesn't feel any stranger than growing a bunch of arms
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I remember only one happy smile by Zoro that wasn't a creepy smirk during the whole New World, and that happened when he was talking to Sabo at the ending of Dressrosa. So yes, his character has been weird to me, like he's always in a bad mood. That said, I liked his bickering with Nami during Zou.
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I’m curious as to whom the Celestials got guarding them. Otherwise Sabo could jusr murder everyone.
Been a while so dont recall precisely what Fisher Tiger did.
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I’m curious as to whom the Celestials got guarding them. Otherwise Sabo could jusr murder everyone.
Been a while so dont recall precisely what Fisher Tiger did.
Aegis should be there i suppose
Y'know big guy, even bigger guy and little guy with hat.
Maybe even Lucci and Spanda
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There's a difference between science-fiction and magic/cartoon. One takes what we know and goes a little further the other does wathever. Sanji using friction to make his legs hot is science fiction. It gives an explanation for why it can happen. It's like saying rubber not burning from Enel magic is cartoonish rather than exaggerating known science. Sanji bursting in flames is just cartoon logic.
Wait, science fiction is a genre in which you use hypothetical technology/science/ideas to discuss philosophy, the consequences of some innovations, the future of humanity and stuff like that. In a nutshell, it's Black Mirror. Science fiction is not extrapolating physics into nonsense with a pseudo-explanation that doesn't even make sense in a intuitive level… that's cartoonish. And that doesn't even explain why Sanji is able to fight with his legs on fire (other than "a chef doesn't fear fire").
A df fruit having a weakness is not a cartoon.
Nosebleed is after the timeskip and like I said only proves that Oda decided cartoon was fine now.
The logic of gear third is pumping air into the bones to a make it has big and powerful as giants hand.I'm not saying a devil fruit can't have a weakness. I'm saying that it's unreasonable that Usopp is more negative than Perona's ghosts (if he were, he would be hopeless and unable to have the willpower to win a fight). It's a joke paying off in a serious situation that will save the crew.
Filling your body with air won't make your punches as heavy as giant's fists. That's not how density works, otherwise baloons would be heavy. What Luffy is actually doing is spreading the contact surface of his hands (which is bad) while also increasing air resistance when moving, overall making his punches much weaker. Gear 3rd is not justified even in pseudo-science, because it only makes sense in cartoon logic "it's bigger, it's stronger".
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@Kaido:
My rereading of the series has been irregular but for the most part I agree with Long John. To me Zoro's felt the same as he always has, a normally stoic guy who comedically reacts to crazy shit people do and is cocky around enemies, with the occasional honorable/smart moment. He had some good moments on Zou like reminding his crew that they have to mind what's on their plate besides Sanji and also his tsundere moment for Sanji. The biggest problem, in addition to him being out of focus for the past while, is that he hasn't met very many challenges. Hyouzou and Monet did nothing but bore him and, although Pica gave him a challenge and some pretty good interactions arose from that, their fight was paced really poorly and not a lot of it was in focus. I enjoyed Zoro a lot in Dressrosa when he got screentime because most of the things he encountered threw him for a loop, so if his challenges at Wano can actually get good focus, I think I will enjoy Zoro like I always have.
I started hated Zoro back in Water seven. To me that's when he became just a stoic badass and both him being the only one not crying when Mrry was burning and the taking the pain like boss just reinforced that idea. It's gotten much worst post timeskip but it started before.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I’m curious as to whom the Celestials got guarding them. Otherwise Sabo could jusr murder everyone.
Been a while so dont recall precisely what Fisher Tiger did.
There's admirals in the building and below there's Garp, Sengoku and Akainu.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Wait, science fiction is a genre in which you use hypothetical technology/science/ideas to discuss philosophy, the consequences of some innovations, the future of humanity and stuff like that. In a nutshell, it's Black Mirror. Science fiction is not extrapolating physics into nonsense with a pseudo-explanation that doesn't even make sense in a intuitive level… that's cartoonish. And that doesn't even explain why Sanji is able to fight with his legs on fire (other than "a chef doesn't fear fire")
Originally his leg got hot it did not make fire. And it did hurt him since he couldn't keep it up.
You do not see a difference between Sanji being able to burst into flames spontaneously and using friction to make his leg incredibly hot?
! I'm not saying a devil fruit can't have a weakness. I'm saying that it's unreasonable that Usopp is more negative than Perona's ghosts (if he were, he would be hopeless and unable to have the willpower to win a fight). It's a joke paying off in a serious situation that will save the crew.
And in there is the difference between what ODa used to do and now. Usopp is a negative person and thanks to that he can resist negative emotions overflowing him, Sanji use friction and thanks to that he produce so much heat it's glowing, Luffy is rubber and because of that lighting has no effect on him.
! He used to take real thing and push them further than in the real world or the premise to it. Now it doesn't have any basis on pre-existing thing and are just done because he likes it. Sanji can just burst into fire etc…
! > Filling your body with air won't make your punches as heavy as giant's fists. That's not how density works, otherwise baloons would be heavy. What Luffy is actually doing is spreading the contact surface of his hands (which is bad) while also increasing air resistance when moving, overall making his punches much weaker. Gear 3rd is not justified even in pseudo-science, because it only makes sense in cartoon logic "it's bigger, it's stronger".
! Again you are trying to equate taking liberties with not caring at all.
! There's a difference exageratted logic because it is a fantastic world and saying logic doesn't matter because it is a fantastic world. One Piece used to be the first now it's the second.
! Also I guess Usopp resistance could posibbly count as asspull and that Luffy also had gear 3rd further proves to me that the Aokiji excuse is BS and the gears are asspulls. -
You do not see a difference between Sanji being able to burst into flames spontaneously and using friction to make his leg incredibly hot?
I can see that both come from different justifications, but both are nonsense and cartoonish, which is fine in my book. I'm NOT equivaleting both because Diable Jamble is not "REAL WORLD physics", but because it strictly plays with the "Rule of Cool". The "problem" of the Rule of Cool is that it is a very subjective system of suspension of disbelief, so it depends on what kind of nonsense you're willing to buy.
And in there is the difference between what ODa used to do and now. Usopp is a negative person and thanks to that he can resist negative emotions overflowing him, Sanji use friction and thanks to that he produce so much heat it's glowing, Luffy is rubber and because of that lighting has no effect on him.
Your three examples are different in substance and Luffy's situation isn't even a joke in itself (the joke happens because we're surprised by its obviety and Enel's reaction).
He used to take real thing and push them further than in the real world or the premise to it. Now it doesn't have any basis on pre-existing thing and are just done because he likes it. Sanji can just burst into fire etc…
Again you are trying to equate taking liberties with not caring at all.
There's a difference exageratted logic because it is a fantastic world and saying logic doesn't matter because it is a fantastic world. One Piece used to be the first now it's the second.There's a lot here…
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Sanji's Hell Memories has basis on a pre-existing thing, that is the metaphor that "Sanji's spirit burns from his passionate emotions". It's silly, but it is a conceptual premise established pre-time skip.
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I don't think the word you want to use is "logic". Logic is the study of the "form" of an argument, basically trying to understand what are the valid conclusions you can take out of some given premises in a vacuum, regardless of whether the premises are true or false. Sanji's Hell Memories is logical according to its premises, but it happens that one of them is nonsense (because it's a metaphor). The ackwardness happens only because we usually have preferences for "scientific" (or pseudo-scientific) premises, because it seems like a more "well-grounded" point of view.
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Gear 3rd is also logical, but once again one of its premises is nonsense ("bigger is stronger", just because).
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All I've pointed out is not to say that Oda doesn't care. Taking liberties is fine, using crazy premises is fine. We just have to be honest regarding its cartoonish nature. Of course, each different example plays on different kinds of justification. As I've said before, it all depends on which kind of nonsense you're willing to buy... and that's one of the reasons why One Piece as a whole is widely rejected by a western audience.
Also I guess Usopp resistance could posibbly count as asspull and that Luffy also had gear 3rd further proves to me that the Aokiji excuse is BS and the gears are asspulls.
If you want to count Usopp's case as an asspull, it's completely reasonable, afterall the application of the concept is highly subjective to what you think is an acceptable justification to solve a problem. In my opinion, this kind of solution fits the tone of the series and it's justifiable (in a cartoonish/nonsense reasoning), therefore I don't count it as an asspull in the context of this series.
When I was just a teenager starting to read One Piece back in 2009, the series was a shock in many ways to me because it challenged my common sense, so a lot of things were asspull-ish to me.
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Okay, chapter comparisons! Sorry they're a day late; I had Memorial Day plans. Quite a few in this chapter, which I guess makes sense for one that introduces lots of new characters and has tons of dialogue.
- Sakazuki is outraged at Fujitora showing his "lousy face" at a Marine base in Mangastream, but he doesn't say anything like that in Jaimini's Box (just notes that he returns so "shamelessly") or VIZ (where he calls it "slinking back here"). Also, the scanlations have him call Fujitora a "brat", while in the official translation, calls him a "boy".
- The wording of Fujitora's "infallible rhetorical weapons" (as VIZ puts it): "There are no 'Navy thresholds' here!" in MS; "This is not a Marine base." in JB; and "If you ask me, this don't count as military grounds." in VIZ. Sakazuki's reply is also worded differently in each version; in MS, he's shouting at the Marine who told him this ("That's just semantics! What kind of iron-headed dimwit are you?!"); in JB, he's yelling about Fujitora's words ("That's nothing but a ludicrous technicality! Does he think that he's some kind of whimsical monk?!"), while in VIZ he just shouts "He's just splitting hairs! That's not rhetoric, it's a brainteaser!"
- Sakazuki's question about Mariejois (that gets answered with "Admiral Ryokugyu") is also worded differently in each version. In MS, he asks who's there now, in JB he asks who else is going, and in VIZ he asks who's gone there.
- For name spellings of the newly-shown royals; VIZ uses the same spelling as JB for King Beer VI, of Roshwan Kingdom (with the princesses being called the Matryo-shesses); same kingdom spelling as JB (Tajine) but different name spelling than either version for Queen Morollon; and King Taco has his country's name actually translated, to Kingdom of the Dead. (Ham Burger and Ballywood are spelled the same as JB (name) and both scanlations (country).)
- The box that makes it clear in JB that Morgans is narrating ("This gathering is already big news!") isn't worded in a way that makes this clear in MS ("This was already quite the event.") and VIZ ("That alone made their presence noteworthy.").
- Less of a comparison and more of a punny tidbit: it made me chuckle that the word that was used in VIZ to describe the bird-like Morgans's infatuation with Shirahoshi was "twitterpated".
- Garp describes Stelly as a "stupid turd", "your face is dumb", in the VIZ version. Also, since the English writing of characters' names calls him "Sterry", JB duly follows suit and uses "Sterry" as his name from now on. MS just keeps it as "Stelly" anyway, writing over the "Sterry" text, and VIZ, as they usually do, changed the writing to keep it consistent with how it's been spelled in the past, so it also says "Stelly".
- When Stelly asks Garp for his connections, his response in MS is insulting to Stelly: "To a mongrel like you? Fat chance." But in JB and VIZ (which are worded almost exactly the same), it's insulting to the World Nobles: "You wanna be one of those scumbags?"
- Stelly's description of the Fishmen is a little different in each version. In MS, he notes that they're "the fish type"; in JB, he thinks that they're "classified as fish" (which hasn't been true for a couple of hundred years, so in this version he just has his facts wrong); and in VIZ notes that they're "more fish than man".
- In MS, Ryokugyu states that they should "try not to destroy this whole place", sounding like he means Mariejois. However, in JB and VIZ, he's instead confirming that Fujitora isn't going to "destroy this meeting", as in, the Reverie.
- The scanlations have Fujitora saying he didn't he "him" (Vegapunk). The official version has him say he didn't see "it" (the creation).
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Okay, chapter comparisons! Sorry they're a day late; I had Memorial Day plans. Quite a few in this chapter, which I guess makes sense for one that introduces lots of new characters and has tons of dialogue.
- Sakazuki is outraged at Fujitora showing his "lousy face" at a Marine base in Mangastream, but he doesn't say anything like that in Jaimini's Box (just notes that he returns so "shamelessly") or VIZ (where he calls it "slinking back here"). Also, the scanlations have him call Fujitora a "brat", while in the official translation, calls him a "boy".
- The wording of Fujitora's "infallible rhetorical weapons" (as VIZ puts it): "There are no 'Navy thresholds' here!" in MS; "This is not a Marine base." in JB; and "If you ask me, this don't count as military grounds." in VIZ. Sakazuki's reply is also worded differently in each version; in MS, he's shouting at the Marine who told him this ("That's just semantics! What kind of iron-headed dimwit are you?!"); in JB, he's yelling about Fujitora's words ("That's nothing but a ludicrous technicality! Does he think that he's some kind of whimsical monk?!"), while in VIZ he just shouts "He's just splitting hairs! That's not rhetoric, it's a brainteaser!"
- Sakazuki's question about Mariejois (that gets answered with "Admiral Ryokugyu") is also worded differently in each version. In MS, he asks who's there now, in JB he asks who else is going, and in VIZ he asks who's gone there.
- For name spellings of the newly-shown royals; VIZ uses the same spelling as JB for King Beer VI, of Roshwan Kingdom (with the princesses being called the Matryo-shesses); same kingdom spelling as JB (Tajine) but different name spelling than either version for Queen Morollon; and King Taco has his country's name actually translated, to Kingdom of the Dead. (Ham Burger and Ballywood are spelled the same as JB (name) and both scanlations (country).)
- The box that makes it clear in JB that Morgans is narrating ("This gathering is already big news!") isn't worded in a way that makes this clear in MS ("This was already quite the event.") and VIZ ("That alone made their presence noteworthy.").
- Less of a comparison and more of a punny tidbit: it made me chuckle that the word that was used in VIZ to describe the bird-like Morgans's infatuation with Shirahoshi was "twitterpated".
- Garp describes Stelly as a "stupid turd", "your face is dumb", in the VIZ version. Also, since the English writing of characters' names calls him "Sterry", JB duly follows suit and uses "Sterry" as his name from now on. MS just keeps it as "Stelly" anyway, writing over the "Sterry" text, and VIZ, as they usually do, changed the writing to keep it consistent with how it's been spelled in the past, so it also says "Stelly".
- When Stelly asks Garp for his connections, his response in MS is insulting to Stelly: "To a mongrel like you? Fat chance." But in JB and VIZ (which are worded almost exactly the same), it's insulting to the World Nobles: "You wanna be one of those scumbags?"
- Stelly's description of the Fishmen is a little different in each version. In MS, he notes that they're "the fish type"; in JB, he thinks that they're "classified as fish" (which hasn't been true for a couple of hundred years, so in this version he just has his facts wrong); and in VIZ notes that they're "more fish than man".
- In MS, Ryokugyu states that they should "try not to destroy this whole place", sounding like he means Mariejois. However, in JB and VIZ, he's instead confirming that Fujitora isn't going to "destroy this meeting", as in, the Reverie.
- The scanlations have Fujitora saying he didn't he "him" (Vegapunk). The official version has him say he didn't see "it" (the creation).
Cool stuff. Thank you for the contributions. I have some qualms with the Viz translations but these posts really help me appreciate them a lot more.
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Okay, chapter comparisons! Sorry they're a day late; I had Memorial Day plans. Quite a few in this chapter, which I guess makes sense for one that introduces lots of new characters and has tons of dialogue.
- Sakazuki is outraged at Fujitora showing his "lousy face" at a Marine base in Mangastream, but he doesn't say anything like that in Jaimini's Box (just notes that he returns so "shamelessly") or VIZ (where he calls it "slinking back here"). Also, the scanlations have him call Fujitora a "brat", while in the official translation, calls him a "boy".
- The wording of Fujitora's "infallible rhetorical weapons" (as VIZ puts it): "There are no 'Navy thresholds' here!" in MS; "This is not a Marine base." in JB; and "If you ask me, this don't count as military grounds." in VIZ. Sakazuki's reply is also worded differently in each version; in MS, he's shouting at the Marine who told him this ("That's just semantics! What kind of iron-headed dimwit are you?!"); in JB, he's yelling about Fujitora's words ("That's nothing but a ludicrous technicality! Does he think that he's some kind of whimsical monk?!"), while in VIZ he just shouts "He's just splitting hairs! That's not rhetoric, it's a brainteaser!"
- Sakazuki's question about Mariejois (that gets answered with "Admiral Ryokugyu") is also worded differently in each version. In MS, he asks who's there now, in JB he asks who else is going, and in VIZ he asks who's gone there.
- For name spellings of the newly-shown royals; VIZ uses the same spelling as JB for King Beer VI, of Roshwan Kingdom (with the princesses being called the Matryo-shesses); same kingdom spelling as JB (Tajine) but different name spelling than either version for Queen Morollon; and King Taco has his country's name actually translated, to Kingdom of the Dead. (Ham Burger and Ballywood are spelled the same as JB (name) and both scanlations (country).)
- The box that makes it clear in JB that Morgans is narrating ("This gathering is already big news!") isn't worded in a way that makes this clear in MS ("This was already quite the event.") and VIZ ("That alone made their presence noteworthy.").
- Less of a comparison and more of a punny tidbit: it made me chuckle that the word that was used in VIZ to describe the bird-like Morgans's infatuation with Shirahoshi was "twitterpated".
- Garp describes Stelly as a "stupid turd", "your face is dumb", in the VIZ version. Also, since the English writing of characters' names calls him "Sterry", JB duly follows suit and uses "Sterry" as his name from now on. MS just keeps it as "Stelly" anyway, writing over the "Sterry" text, and VIZ, as they usually do, changed the writing to keep it consistent with how it's been spelled in the past, so it also says "Stelly".
- When Stelly asks Garp for his connections, his response in MS is insulting to Stelly: "To a mongrel like you? Fat chance." But in JB and VIZ (which are worded almost exactly the same), it's insulting to the World Nobles: "You wanna be one of those scumbags?"
- Stelly's description of the Fishmen is a little different in each version. In MS, he notes that they're "the fish type"; in JB, he thinks that they're "classified as fish" (which hasn't been true for a couple of hundred years, so in this version he just has his facts wrong); and in VIZ notes that they're "more fish than man".
- In MS, Ryokugyu states that they should "try not to destroy this whole place", sounding like he means Mariejois. However, in JB and VIZ, he's instead confirming that Fujitora isn't going to "destroy this meeting", as in, the Reverie.
- The scanlations have Fujitora saying he didn't he "him" (Vegapunk). The official version has him say he didn't see "it" (the creation).
Some trivia/explanations from the podcast this week: The bit about the monk/brainteasers was originally an oblique reference to the historical japanese monk, who is apparently known as something of a trickster and maker of riddles and paradoxical statements. Ikkyu is not mentioned by name in the original, but Stephen said the reference was obvious, but not something that could be easily translated, especially without use of the name.
Queen Morollon's name seems to be drawn from Morocco, with Tajine being a type of Moroccan quinine. Her "toast to the eyes of the world" line is actually a reference to Casablanca (which was of course set in Morocco), as it's similar to the wording of the Japanese subs for the line "here's looking at you, kid." They didn't catch the reference before the English chapter was finalised though, but it could be touched up for the volume release.
"Shishano Kingdom" is the Japanese translation of the Land of the Dead used for their dub of Coco, and the design of the old woman half out of the frame cements Taco and his entourage as a direct deference to the movie. It was put back to English to make sure the reference wasn't lost to readers here.
I didn't actually know this myself beforehand, but "twitterpated" is an existing english word that long predates Twitter (and was actually coined in Bambi, to keep the film references coming) and is being used 100% in line with its actual meaning here, as well as being an inspired choice for Morgans.
And with the change of text from Sterry to Stelly, it's pointed out that a flag in the background of that page reads "Leverly" instead of Reverie, so maybe we shouldn't be so quick to take the romanisations here at face value
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Thanks for the posts
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Thank you I was going for an approximation but it always good to be more precise.
A quote to not seem like I'm trying to save face. I remember that moment(which is why I say Sanji is the worst offense)
My problem is that the hint happen way after Lucci had proven much to powerful. And a negligeable time before Blueno.
I mean he freaking says it in the same chapter he arrives at Ennias Lobby and 7 chapters before meeting Blueno. Are you really tring to tell me that it isn't an asspull because Oda did it 5 minutes before the fight?
It's waaay after Lucci so the whole I suddenly have a technique is a sudden reveal because it was not hinted during the fight or even right after it was "hinted" right before the magical solution appear. It's not 21 months pregnancy bad but it is bad.
Oda created Lucci for a reason and that was for Luffy to get stronger and showcase Luffy's "new move" that he was thinking about.
Oda wouldn't create an enemy that was too powerful for Luffy to beat then think "oh shit how do I make my character beat my other character I created" then asspull.
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There's admirals in the building and below there's Garp, Sengoku and Akainu
At the moment there are admirals in the building, but who's there else wise? Who was there guarding them when Luffy, Rayleigh and Jimbei invaded Marineford?
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Re: Zoro, thanks for the feedback guys. It's refreshing to get a different perspective on the character, and re-reading a select few chapters you mentioned does make me inclined to believe it's more a matter of screentime than a change of character.
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It doesn't help zoro that all he cares about is swordmanship. Like even fukin Akainu has another hobby besides lava fisting pirates, he likes gardening, take away zoro's swordmanship and you got nothing. I find it ironic how people complain about germa because they are the ones that train all day and care about strength and are boring, when zoro is just like that!
And he is also the most villain like straw hat, and not the fun type like buggy or CC, more like akainu or vergo.
And growing more heads and arms and swords? that is out of the tough guy excuse, I didn't even see robin do that and she actually has a fruit that could do that.In other news, Fujitora and Green cow are now at mariejois. Revolutionaries will go there after CDs, but fujitora with his blind man like advanced CoO aura will see them.
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Sanji only cried once, when he got cucked by Pudding. That's all.
Robin has never cried either. Zoro isn't the only one. -
Robin's tears may be the most famous ones of the story
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So since we're 3 chapters in and still getting set-up and don't even have most of the players present yet, can we laugh at the people who said this would be a 4-chapter arc
Well it won't be an 'arc' because it won't last long:
. It's nice to know there's a lot of info in those 10 chaps
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Interesting, that Taco's K.D. could be translated as kingdom of the dead. Don't they (the mexicans)celebrate the day of the dead every year? (Dia de muertos)
IIRC the "make-up like a la catrina"-trend has his origins in that day.
At least there was quite a Tattoo-trend wth those la catrinas a while ago.Anyway, thanks, Bellisario!
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If anything was cheap/asspull storywise, it was Garp's dog-mask. the only purpose of that Thing was to hide the fact that Garp is Luffy's granddad.
Fans, who have read Romance Dawn would have found out immediately. And Garp has never worn that mask again. Only his ship reminds anyone of that mask.Zoro's fight with Mr. 1 gave us the first hint, that there is sth to overcome the DF users (which turned out to be haki). Either his CoO has awaken that day or his CoA.
I'd guess it both awakened on that day. I liked that fight though I thought:"Who could be his next big Opponent? 1's DF was customized to fight Zoro. Which enemy will ever be more customized to Zoro than Mr. 1?" Luckily, Kaku and Ryuuma appeared quite some time later.I'm not trying to defend Zoro here (even though my username implies that, I just picked that Name back then cause my Name starts with a "Z" as well and in 2009 there was no Zephyr back then), but aside frm swordsmanship he is into drinking. I know, that doesn't Sound as healthy as gardening. Wasn't there an SBS question what the SHs would do if they weren't pirates. Luffy would be a firefighter, and Usopee would do sth with graphics, iirc.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Sanji only cried once, when he got cucked by Pudding. That's all.
Robin has never cried either. Zoro isn't the only one.Robin cried at EL, and Zoro cried after his fight with Mihawk iirc. Or did you mean since TS?
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Every week I think "I should start listening to the OPP". Now that I know Stephen gives info regarding his translations there, I hope I will stop postponing it.
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Robin cried at EL, and Zoro cried after his fight with Mihawk iirc. Or did you mean since TS?
oh well you're right. They all cried during their respective arcs.
The Baratie wasn't Zoro's arc, but Mihawk's power is related to his flashback and dream. etcetera
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Isn't that the same editor who had said the Wano arc was set to begin in late 2017 ?
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Okay, chapter comparisons! Sorry they're a day late; I had Memorial Day plans. Quite a few in this chapter, which I guess makes sense for one that introduces lots of new characters and has tons of dialogue.
- Sakazuki is outraged at Fujitora showing his "lousy face" at a Marine base in Mangastream, but he doesn't say anything like that in Jaimini's Box (just notes that he returns so "shamelessly") or VIZ (where he calls it "slinking back here"). Also, the scanlations have him call Fujitora a "brat", while in the official translation, calls him a "boy".
- The wording of Fujitora's "infallible rhetorical weapons" (as VIZ puts it): "There are no 'Navy thresholds' here!" in MS; "This is not a Marine base." in JB; and "If you ask me, this don't count as military grounds." in VIZ. Sakazuki's reply is also worded differently in each version; in MS, he's shouting at the Marine who told him this ("That's just semantics! What kind of iron-headed dimwit are you?!"); in JB, he's yelling about Fujitora's words ("That's nothing but a ludicrous technicality! Does he think that he's some kind of whimsical monk?!"), while in VIZ he just shouts "He's just splitting hairs! That's not rhetoric, it's a brainteaser!"
- Sakazuki's question about Mariejois (that gets answered with "Admiral Ryokugyu") is also worded differently in each version. In MS, he asks who's there now, in JB he asks who else is going, and in VIZ he asks who's gone there.
- For name spellings of the newly-shown royals; VIZ uses the same spelling as JB for King Beer VI, of Roshwan Kingdom (with the princesses being called the Matryo-shesses); same kingdom spelling as JB (Tajine) but different name spelling than either version for Queen Morollon; and King Taco has his country's name actually translated, to Kingdom of the Dead. (Ham Burger and Ballywood are spelled the same as JB (name) and both scanlations (country).)
- The box that makes it clear in JB that Morgans is narrating ("This gathering is already big news!") isn't worded in a way that makes this clear in MS ("This was already quite the event.") and VIZ ("That alone made their presence noteworthy.").
- Less of a comparison and more of a punny tidbit: it made me chuckle that the word that was used in VIZ to describe the bird-like Morgans's infatuation with Shirahoshi was "twitterpated".
- Garp describes Stelly as a "stupid turd", "your face is dumb", in the VIZ version. Also, since the English writing of characters' names calls him "Sterry", JB duly follows suit and uses "Sterry" as his name from now on. MS just keeps it as "Stelly" anyway, writing over the "Sterry" text, and VIZ, as they usually do, changed the writing to keep it consistent with how it's been spelled in the past, so it also says "Stelly".
- When Stelly asks Garp for his connections, his response in MS is insulting to Stelly: "To a mongrel like you? Fat chance." But in JB and VIZ (which are worded almost exactly the same), it's insulting to the World Nobles: "You wanna be one of those scumbags?"
- Stelly's description of the Fishmen is a little different in each version. In MS, he notes that they're "the fish type"; in JB, he thinks that they're "classified as fish" (which hasn't been true for a couple of hundred years, so in this version he just has his facts wrong); and in VIZ notes that they're "more fish than man".
- In MS, Ryokugyu states that they should "try not to destroy this whole place", sounding like he means Mariejois. However, in JB and VIZ, he's instead confirming that Fujitora isn't going to "destroy this meeting", as in, the Reverie.
- The scanlations have Fujitora saying he didn't he "him" (Vegapunk). The official version has him say he didn't see "it" (the creation).
does the official release too call him "old man vegapunk?"
because we have never got a confirmation of his age..we got a story about when he was a kid from that old man in his native island, but he never told us what was his age at the time, so we don't know if vegapunk is a middle age man or an old one at this point…especially since he was described as a science prodigy so it would make sense for the government to recruit him when he was still pretty young@uniaka:It doesn't help zoro that all he cares about is swordmanship. Like even fukin Akainu has another hobby besides lava fisting pirates, he likes gardening, take away zoro's swordmanship and you got nothing. I find it ironic how people complain about germa because they are the ones that train all day and care about strength and are boring, when zoro is just like that!
And he is also the most villain like straw hat, and not the fun type like buggy or CC, more like akainu or vergo.
And growing more heads and arms and swords? that is out of the tough guy excuse, I didn't even see robin do that and she actually has a fruit that could do that.In other news, Fujitora and Green cow are now at mariejois. Revolutionaries will go there after CDs, but fujitora with his blind man like advanced CoO aura will see them.
zoro also likes booze
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does the official release to call him "old man vegapunk?"
because we have never got a confirmation of his age..we got a story about when he was a kid from theat old man in his native island, but he never told us what was his age at the time so we didn't know if vegapunk was a middle age man or an old one at this point…especially since he was described as a science prodigy so it would make sense for the government to recruit him when he was still pretty youngzoro also likes boozeThe specific wording is "How's old Vegapunk doing?" For now, I'm taking it to be more of a "how's our old friend" kinda thing than an actual statement about age, but it could be read either way.
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@uniaka:
It doesn't help zoro that all he cares about is swordmanship. Like even fukin Akainu has another hobby besides lava fisting pirates, he likes gardening, take away zoro's swordmanship and you got nothing. I find it ironic how people complain about germa because they are the ones that train all day and care about strength and are boring, when zoro is just like that!
And he is also the most villain like straw hat, and not the fun type like buggy or CC, more like akainu or vergo.
And growing more heads and arms and swords? that is out of the tough guy excuse, I didn't even see robin do that and she actually has a fruit that could do that.I don't know who to quote for this big Zoro thing but I really want to chime in. The Vinsmoke comparison isn't apt because Germa possesses absolutely no moral code and actively abuses other people in horrific ways.
I'm actually someone who entered the timeskip loving Sanji and hating Zoro, but now if anything those feelings have kind of switched (although I don't hate Sanji, I just think Oda handles his character very poorly). I may be in the minority of those who like Zoro more after the timeskip, actually. It's unfair to say that all Zoro cares about is swordsmanship imo because he also genuinely cares about the strength of the crew and he obviously cares very deeply for Luffy. I might add that these aren't just empty words either - the things that he's done and said in critical moments speak for themselves. I especially like that Zoro puts aside his pride to train with Mihawk, and the fact that's all but wiped the floor with his enemies in the New World show that he took that training very seriously.
The shut eye thing intrigues me a lot. I'm not sure if anyone else brought it up, but this is potentially the most hyped powerup that we've had in the series imo. Is his eye missing or not? If not, why does he keep it closed? The common theory is that he simply refuses to open it out of shame, but that does suggest that there will be a time where he may have to open it… And what happens when he does? It may be sort of shallow battle manga stuff, but I think that particular aesthetic element really draws me to the character because there's still an air of mystery as to what he can actually accomplish. Literally even if nothing happens with his eye, I'll still love that Oda added that to his character.
I think swords are just about the lamest weapon out of all the wacky shit we've seen in One Piece but I really do look forward to a Zoro fight that really pushes him. I'll probably also add that his Mr 1 fight is probably my favorite fight in the series because it's paced expertly, doesn't overstay its welcome, and hits a real emotional high. I would like to see some Zoro characterization as well, but I don't think it's necessary.
My two cents on the guy. Of all the Straw Hats that got kinda screwed over post timeskip, I think he was spared amicably.
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12 characters of out soon!
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Okay, chapter comparisons! Sorry they're a day late; I had Memorial Day plans. Quite a few in this chapter, which I guess makes sense for one that introduces lots of new characters and has tons of dialogue.
- Sakazuki is outraged at Fujitora showing his "lousy face" at a Marine base in Mangastream, but he doesn't say anything like that in Jaimini's Box (just notes that he returns so "shamelessly") or VIZ (where he calls it "slinking back here"). Also, the scanlations have him call Fujitora a "brat", while in the official translation, calls him a "boy".
- The wording of Fujitora's "infallible rhetorical weapons" (as VIZ puts it): "There are no 'Navy thresholds' here!" in MS; "This is not a Marine base." in JB; and "If you ask me, this don't count as military grounds." in VIZ. Sakazuki's reply is also worded differently in each version; in MS, he's shouting at the Marine who told him this ("That's just semantics! What kind of iron-headed dimwit are you?!"); in JB, he's yelling about Fujitora's words ("That's nothing but a ludicrous technicality! Does he think that he's some kind of whimsical monk?!"), while in VIZ he just shouts "He's just splitting hairs! That's not rhetoric, it's a brainteaser!"
- Sakazuki's question about Mariejois (that gets answered with "Admiral Ryokugyu") is also worded differently in each version. In MS, he asks who's there now, in JB he asks who else is going, and in VIZ he asks who's gone there.
- For name spellings of the newly-shown royals; VIZ uses the same spelling as JB for King Beer VI, of Roshwan Kingdom (with the princesses being called the Matryo-shesses); same kingdom spelling as JB (Tajine) but different name spelling than either version for Queen Morollon; and King Taco has his country's name actually translated, to Kingdom of the Dead. (Ham Burger and Ballywood are spelled the same as JB (name) and both scanlations (country).)
- The box that makes it clear in JB that Morgans is narrating ("This gathering is already big news!") isn't worded in a way that makes this clear in MS ("This was already quite the event.") and VIZ ("That alone made their presence noteworthy.").
- Less of a comparison and more of a punny tidbit: it made me chuckle that the word that was used in VIZ to describe the bird-like Morgans's infatuation with Shirahoshi was "twitterpated".
- Garp describes Stelly as a "stupid turd", "your face is dumb", in the VIZ version. Also, since the English writing of characters' names calls him "Sterry", JB duly follows suit and uses "Sterry" as his name from now on. MS just keeps it as "Stelly" anyway, writing over the "Sterry" text, and VIZ, as they usually do, changed the writing to keep it consistent with how it's been spelled in the past, so it also says "Stelly".
- When Stelly asks Garp for his connections, his response in MS is insulting to Stelly: "To a mongrel like you? Fat chance." But in JB and VIZ (which are worded almost exactly the same), it's insulting to the World Nobles: "You wanna be one of those scumbags?"
- Stelly's description of the Fishmen is a little different in each version. In MS, he notes that they're "the fish type"; in JB, he thinks that they're "classified as fish" (which hasn't been true for a couple of hundred years, so in this version he just has his facts wrong); and in VIZ notes that they're "more fish than man".
- In MS, Ryokugyu states that they should "try not to destroy this whole place", sounding like he means Mariejois. However, in JB and VIZ, he's instead confirming that Fujitora isn't going to "destroy this meeting", as in, the Reverie.
- The scanlations have Fujitora saying he didn't he "him" (Vegapunk). The official version has him say he didn't see "it" (the creation).
Thank you for this!
King Taco seems to be an exact reference to the famous LA taqueria.