I think the key difference is that Katakuri's DF is 'Awakened', and we've so far only seen Zoan and Paramecia DFs become Awakened, maybe that's a weakness of Logia DFs, that they can't achieve it because they're top tier or something. Like a little nice bonus that the other two lesser ranks of DF categories get to have to make up for being inferior. Still, it ought to be stated rather than speculated, because it still seems like, without that caveat, there should be no reason for Katakuri's not to be a Logia. Otherwise, him being able to project his power out and transmogrify the walls and floor into mochi would usually be beyond the scope of any mere substance production DF like Mr. 3's and Magellan's. Crocodile is the closest we've seen to a Logia user making other things into sand (by drying them out) but that wasn't able to happen to EVERYTHING, and there's no telling whether in the last two years since they started the Time Skip, if he learned to Awaken his DF or if it's even possible for a Logia.
Chapter 884: Who
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Sorry, but there is no way Luffy can do that. Luffys DF allows him to merely change elasticity of his body, but he still have to use his muscles and joints to move it. Luffy doesn't have shapeshifting ability like Katakuri does, where Katakuri can freely manipulate exact shape and size of his mochi without any effort.
I think he could. With more control of his body he definitely could. So far Luffy has seemingly stretched out his head back in FI and wrapped it around Nami, he's pumped his legs to increase bloodflow, used that homing attack with G4, inflate and deflate at will, control an involutary portion of his body to digest food, pull his fist in while in G4, etc. Luffy should definitely be able to reshape himself at will with more control besides opening a hole in him of course. But shaping his body in different ways I think is plausible for Luffy. Will he do it? Maybe not.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
And one more thing, hell, Luffy has gotten to the point of isolating a portion of his body to use G2.
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I think the key difference is that Katakuri's DF is 'Awakened', and we've so far only seen Zoan and Paramecia DFs become Awakened, maybe that's a weakness of Logia DFs, that they can't achieve it because they're top tier or something. Like a little nice bonus that the other two lesser ranks of DF categories get to have to make up for being inferior. Still, it ought to be stated rather than speculated, because it still seems like, without that caveat, there should be no reason for Katakuri's not to be a Logia. Otherwise, him being able to project his power out and transmogrify the walls and floor into mochi would usually be beyond the scope of any mere substance production DF like Mr. 3's and Magellan's. Crocodile is the closest we've seen to a Logia user making other things into sand (by drying them out) but that wasn't able to happen to EVERYTHING, and there's no telling whether in the last two years since they started the Time Skip, if he learned to Awaken his DF or if it's even possible for a Logia.
It's assumed Akainu and Aokiji used awakening on Punk Hazard which is why the environment is permanently changed
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@Haisha:
On the surface, this seems correct. But if smoke cannot hit someone, how can it be used to capture them. I believe Luffy was captured by smoke in Loguetown until he used a balloon to break out.
Not only Luffy, but entire Buggy's crew. He also caught Sanji's leg and threw him away. I think balloon part was anime only. Perhaps he can change the density to a degree. But if he can do that, he should be able to apply Armaments to it as well. Who knows, Smoker desperately needs a power up anyway, so we might see a different applications of his devil fruit.
But rereading chapter 100 made me a little nostalgic. How things have changed. In one chapter we have:
- Buggy pirates trying to escape Loguetown and Smoker capturing them
- Zoro vs Tashigi with conclusion
- Smoker vs Luffy and Sanji with conclusion after Dragon comes and blows everyone away
- Buggy escaping
- SH escaping and making vows
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
It's assumed Akainu and Aokiji used awakening on Punk Hazard which is why the environment is permanently changed
That's probably the case, even though with logias like theirs you never know. Since each island in OP has a separate climate, just producing ice or fire for a longer duration would be enough to alter the weather irreparably, with or without awakening.
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Okay, comparisons time! Not too many this week.
- The scanlations both call the chapter simply "Who". The official translation for it is "Who is That?"
- Mangastream has Luffy call Katakuri's defense "Armored defense", noting in a TN that it's written differently from Armament Haki. However, it's really supposed to be "Armament defense", which is what both Jaimini's Box and VIZ use for it.
- Katakuri calls his attack "Peerless Donuts" in the scanlations, but "Unstoppable Donuts" in the official version. Luffy then comments on it in MS, "That's just mochi!"; however, the other two translations show that Luffy's observing that it isn't mochi, saying "It's not mochi?!" in JB and "Hey, those aren't mochi!" in VIZ.
- In the scanlations, whoever's speaking says "I think" Pound is Big Mom's 25th husband. In the official version, the speaker instead notes that "he says" he's her 25th husband. Also, in the MS version, Pound says he wants to "talk to her for a bit"; in JB, he wants to "exchange just a few words" with her; the VIZ version is "just say one thing to her".
- Charlotte Oven is the Minister of Browning in MS, the Minister of Browned Food in JB, and the Minister of Baking in VIZ.
- Pound randomly addresses Oven as "my dear Oven" in MS, which is an MS-ism. He just calls him Oven in JB and VIZ.
- After people are commenting that there is "steam coming off of Lady Pudding", someone asks "Who put her in the oven?!", and the reply to that is "I'm not baking!", seeming to suggest that Pudding herself said this last line.
- Praline's song in the official translation: "Come sing a song with me my little sluggy dears / Stop working, let the music fill your ears / Security? Shmecurity! Reports? No time! But singing? That's divine! / Working is no way to spend / your very hard-earned weekend! "
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Hey, it rhymes now!
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Anyone else read Praline's song like it was in the tune of Pauline singing in Mario Odyssey?
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It's assumed Akainu and Aokiji used awakening on Punk Hazard which is why the environment is permanently changed
Well, there you go. Now there's even less reason why Katakuri's DF should be Paramecia rather than Logia.
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Anyone else read Praline's song like it was in the tune of Pauline singing in Mario Odyssey?
Yes actually, was the first thing on my mind lol
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It does sound the likeliest at the moment considering that Stucy was the only guest to become fully unmasked; also Akainu's post-timeskip fleet badly needs some street credit. But with all those shady wedding attendees still around there could be informers for pretty much anyone ready to report that defenses are down & the kingdom's weakened.
Even if that is the case, there was no one really focused on like Stussy or Du Feld were. The latter having his own interest at heart, but the former being a double agent.
Blackbeard seems to have more connections to Wano, but I am not sure Oda would go through not liberating Wano after the battle. I guess I will have a better idea after this arc finishes, and depending on which terms do the Straw Hats end up with Big Mom.
Not to mention that it is very likely that Caribou is actually working with Blackbeard, so if Teach invades Wano, coincidentally where Caribou is captured, that could lead to other events like Blackbeard attacking Fishman Island because of Poseidon being there. At one point Blackbeard will start looking for an Ancient Weapon so I think this could tie in onto future plots.
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Anyone else read Praline's song like it was in the tune of Pauline singing in Mario Odyssey?
I read it in the tune of Under the Sea for me.
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@K.:
Even if that is the case, there was no one really focused on like Stussy or Du Feld were. The latter having his own interest at heart, but the former being a double agent.
Blackbeard seems to have more connections to Wano, but I am not sure Oda would go through not liberating Wano after the battle. I guess I will have a better idea after this arc finishes, and depending on which terms do the Straw Hats end up with Big Mom.
Not to mention that it is very likely that Caribou is actually working with Blackbeard, so if Teach invades Wano, coincidentally where Caribou is captured, that could lead to other events like Blackbeard attacking Fishman Island because of Poseidon being there. At one point Blackbeard will start looking for an Ancient Weapon so I think this could tie in onto future plots.
Uh…what? When did that happen? Last I saw he was captured by X Drake and that dude was supposed to be in Kaido's camp, not Blackbeard's. And wasn't Kaido the one who was supposed to have taken control of Wano, not Blackbeard? Or is my memory really that bad?
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Uh…what? When did that happen? Last I saw he was captured by X Drake and that dude was supposed to be in Kaido's camp, not Blackbeard's. And wasn't Kaido the one who was supposed to have taken control of Wano, not Blackbeard? Or is my memory really that bad?
There's a panel in chapter 652 before Caribou meets Pekoms & Tamago where Caribou reveals his intention to gain somebody's favor thanks to the info on Shirahoshi. I don't think any names were dropped, but his style and personality are a good match for Blackbeard and his capture by Drake seemed accidental and uncooperative so chances are the person he's allegedly working for isn't Kaido.
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There's a panel in chapter 652 before Caribou meets Pekoms & Tamago where Caribou reveals his intention to gain somebody's favor thanks to the info on Shirahoshi. I don't think any names were dropped, but his style and personality are a good match for Blackbeard and his capture by Drake seemed accidental and uncooperative so chances are the person he's allegedly working for isn't Kaido.
But he's going to have to use it as his bargaining chip to spare his life if he knows what's good for him whether he intended to sell that info to BB or anyone else, so Kaido's going to know about it before anyone else just because of circumstance, so that's pretty indisputable at this point unless he somehow miraculously manages to escape, but even then, how to find BB or anyone else who can make it worth his while before he's caught by Kaido again or anyone else in the ruthless New World? He doesn't have much experience with Haki because he relies heavily on his Logia defense and it really let him down in a bad way so there's little hope for him without his crew, ship and any other resources.
But I'm still fairly sure it was Kaido that was said to be causing trouble in Wano, not BB. Open to being corrected if my memory is that faulty.
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Uh…what? When did that happen? Last I saw he was captured by X Drake and that dude was supposed to be in Kaido's camp, not Blackbeard's. And wasn't Kaido the one who was supposed to have taken control of Wano, not Blackbeard? Or is my memory really that bad?
Saying that it is "very" likely might be pushing it, but it is definitely possible. Back on Fishman Island, Caribou said this:
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He is meeting Kaido completely by accident if that happens, so the "certain someone" is probably somebody else. Perhaps another Yonko if Caribou is already going to interact with one.
Also, you gravely underestimate the plot conveniences Oda can create to bring in a character like Blackbeard. He just shows up wherever he wants when the plot needs it lol.
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Well, it can still be…
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… that man.
Actually, due to his cover story ending with him captured by Kaido (who was one of the top contenders for "that man") Caribou's boss became one of the most forgotten loose ends in fandom. Right after frozen corpses in Punk Hazard. -
As others have said the panel in the manga why I think it could be possible, I'll try and elaborate further.
Uh…what? When did that happen? Last I saw he was captured by X Drake and that dude was supposed to be in Kaido's camp, not Blackbeard's.
Exactly, he was captured by X Drake for Kaido. Meaning that whomever "that person" he was talking about in Fishman Island, cannot be Kaido given that he would not have put as much of a resistance. The biggest assumption here is that Caribou's employer is someone with authority and power. Otherwise, there is not much tension to be had. We could say that Caribou is working with Weevil and his mother, but could that move the plot forward in regards to the Ancient Weapons? It cannot be Big Mom otherwise, Caribou would have been connected to her during this arc and Pekoms would have not taken him out. Shanks? Even less likely to associate himself with Caribou. The government seems highly unlikely given his epithet.
So one of the few options remaining, that also ties in with the importance of the Ancient Weapons and their search, would be Blackbeard.
And wasn't Kaido the one who was supposed to have taken control of Wano, not Blackbeard? Or is my memory really that bad?
Yes, Kaido is in control of Wano. However there are many things that tie in Blackbeard with Wano, not to mention that by the end of Wano we would be approaching the end game of One Piece even faster. Meaning that Blackbeard should be switching from off screen to be on screen.
Blackbeard has been to Wano, because Whitebeard went to Wano. Teach is interested in history research and is very likely to have met Oden. The latter being from the clan that transcribed the Poneglyphs is also a factor to consider. There are other things that lead me to belive that Blackbeard would show up at Wano.
But he's going to have to use it as his bargaining chip to spare his life if he knows what's good for him whether he intended to sell that info to BB or anyone else,
Not entirely, he could defect to the Beast Pirates like Apoo and X Drake without having to use the information as bargaining chip.
so Kaido's going to know about it before anyone else just because of circumstance, so that's pretty indisputable at this point
As stated above, he might not even need to, however, even if Kaido does know about it, it would not affect that Caribou had someone to report to. I am not against the idea of him telling Kaido, because that would give a chance for King and Queen to maybe storm the Reverie to capture Poseidon. Enforcing how crazy the Beast Pirates are.
unless he somehow miraculously manages to escape, but even then, how to find BB or anyone else who can make it worth his while before he's caught by Kaido again or anyone else in the ruthless New World?
I do not think he will escape. Kidd is not dead, so I am not sure if his life would be in immediate danger as a prisoner. Not to mention that Caribou is very likely to just work for Kaido out of convenience.
But I'm still fairly sure it was Kaido that was said to be causing trouble in Wano, not BB. Open to being corrected if my memory is that faulty.
That is why Blackbeard would come to Wano after the war between Kaido and Luffy.
–-> Also, welcome to the forum.
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@K.:
Blackbeard has been to Wano, because Whitebeard went to Wano. Teach is interested in history research and is very likely to have met Oden. The latter being from the clan that transcribed the Poneglyphs is also a factor to consider. There are other things that lead me to belive that Blackbeard would show up at Wano.
Blackbeard showing up at either Reverie or Wano definitely makes sense, since those both arcs are already hyped by editors as having a similiar impact to Marineford. Since Blackbeard
1. is supposed to be the final villain and there's a need from a storytelling perspective to build him up
2. he hasn't even appeared in person in almost 300 chapters since the timeskipI cannot imagine that Oda lets this chance go to waste and wouldn't include him there.
My personal theory is that the Blackbeard Pirates must show up in Wano because the Whitebeard Pirates will absolutely play a role there. And if they don't already have those fruits, we need a oportunity for Shiryu and probably Burgess to get Jozu's Diamond and Marco's Phoenix fruit.
And there's also the funny theory I had and still have that Edward Weevil is supposed to be the person where Blackbeard gets his final powers from.
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Weevil's final enemy is going to be Blackbeard, where and when they will fight that is to be seen.
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@K.:
Weevil's final enemy is going to be Blackbeard, where and when they will fight that is to be seen.
No disagreement here.
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I may have read a bad translation, but who's Weevil? That name doesn't ring a bell.
And while it's true Caribou probably had better ambitions than to get captured by Kaido and lose his only source of value to get him back into any kind of status as far as getting a new ship/crew, that has no bearing on his current situation. Throwing Blackbeard into things is like impaling oneself on Occam's Razor at this point. BB didn't bother showing up to Dressrosa to get the Mera Mera no Mi and didn't seem to care to retaliate by leveling the place for angering him (though there's no telling what will become of Burgess for failing…but then, he did take his anger out on the Revolutionaries which makes sense.) It's just way too soon for him to be showing up now for any reason, and they'd have no way of knowing the Straw Hats were going to Wano and given the BB agenda of DF hunting, it's unlikely they'll risk getting into a skirmish with any other Yonkou at the moment, until they're fully prepared. That's how he operates.
Caribou could have very well been talking about Joker, someone not unapproachable unlike the Yonkou crews that have (barring the terribly lax border security we've seen with Big Mom) lots of turf to protect and would be highly guarded and difficult to get in direct contact with. Now that Joker's out of the picture, his plan may have fizzled altogether and being in Kaido's custody, he'd find out about it and maybe figure the next best thing would be to give Kaido some good news to offset his anger about losing his supply of SMILEs.
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The Vinsmokes have a serious vendetta against Big Mom, so there's every possibility they'll be the ones who buy the crew time to get out of Dodge, not to mention Bege is most certainly going to go back to retrieve his baby-mama if she can't make it back to him herself. So even if they don't manage to tranquilize Big Mom or just make something so scrumptious that it sends her into a food coma, there's ways to keep her from continuing to chase them.
My issue with these other ways is that it kind of undercuts the whole cake subplot. For them to go out of their way to make the cake (with a secret ingredient!), to spend all these chapters on it, only for it to be ineffective, for them to need yet another way to fend off Big Mom, that seems very… pointless. That said, I'm talking about Big Mom specifically. If the Vinsmokes or whatever are fending off BM's naval forces or something while she's unconscious, that's fine.
But also, something tells me there might be an inkling about Mother Caramel's dirty doings that will come to light and really shatter Big Mom's mind with the truth of such a horrible revelation about the only person she feels genuinely cared about her. Considering she had dealings with the Marines, and they have agents in attendance at the wedding, it stands to reason such info about Big Mom is known to the relevant personnel and anyone going into her territory would be informed about something that would be a potential weakness of hers to exploit if an escape or assassination became necessary.
I do believe that Big Mom will eventually discover the truth about Mother Carmel, I just don't know about it happening in this arc. Or that even if it does happen in this arc, I don't see it playing a role in the Straw Hats escaping safely. Like I see it floated around that her learning the truth would lead to a truce of some kind, but it's very hard to picture how or why that would happen. Regardless, even if someone on the island does know the truth, they don't have any good reason to inform Big Mom of what happened, as far as I can see. Even with Pudding and her powers, all she can do is potentially reveal that Big Mom ate her and the children, but Big Mom herself wouldn't have any memories that are privy to Mother Carmel's treachery anyways.
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I may have read a bad translation, but who's Weevil? That name doesn't ring a bell.
And while it's true Caribou probably had better ambitions than to get captured by Kaido and lose his only source of value to get him back into any kind of status as far as getting a new ship/crew, that has no bearing on his current situation. Throwing Blackbeard into things is like impaling oneself on Occam's Razor at this point. BB didn't bother showing up to Dressrosa to get the Mera Mera no Mi and didn't seem to care to retaliate by leveling the place for angering him (though there's no telling what will become of Burgess for failing…but then, he did take his anger out on the Revolutionaries which makes sense.)
Weevil is the seventh Shichubukai. The ugly zombie-esque fat "son" eradicatig what is left of his allies. He wants to hunt Marco, but his mother is making him hunt Luffy for his bounty reward. So he will likely appear in Wano Country.
That does not sound like Blackbeard at all. He would rather laugh at mistakes/failures like that, not get upset and launch a huge counterattack just because he can. He is not going to kill Burgess just because he failed, that goes against how a man like Teach respects his resources wherever he can still get them. Trashing a Devil Fruit-less crew member like Burgess, especially for losing to an opponent as strong as Sabo, is a stupid choice when such a minion is still decently strong and can get stronger. I hate that cliche altogether too.
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! But I will admit that was the one time the cliche was funny.And what you are saying is funny if you go back and notice little moments where Teach's crewmates, such as Burgess and Shiryu, actually react more provokingly to their defeats than their captain even does. Teach is one of those smug overconfident villains that keeps underestimating the odds against him. Sure, he plans goal posts LONG ahead of time to cunningly undermine the competition. But when it comes to his methods and precautions in action, he recklessly wings everything all of the time.
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!It's just way too soon for him to be showing up now for any reason, and they'd have no way of knowing the Straw Hats were going to Wano and given the BB agenda of DF hunting, it's unlikely they'll risk getting into a skirmish with any other Yonkou at the moment, until they're fully prepared. That's how he operates.
It's not way too soon at all. In fact, a reason why he might come is precisely because he may want to take advantage of the imminent war in Wano Country as an opportunity to kill Kaido. And may succeed in doing so because Kaido's immortality and infamy might make him be one of the rare exceptions of an actual death in the series like Ace and Whitebeard.
They don't have to only go there for the Straw Hats either. It all depends on what kind of role the Whitebeard Remnants will have if you ask me. There is a big chance we are at least finding out more info about Blackbeard from them. And it would make sense for Oda to reintroduce Blackbeard in the same arc the Whitebeard Pirates are reintroduced.
Caribou could have very well been talking about Joker, someone not unapproachable unlike the Yonkou crews that have (barring the terribly lax border security we've seen with Big Mom) lots of turf to protect and would be highly guarded and difficult to get in direct contact with. Now that Joker's out of the picture, his plan may have fizzled altogether and being in Kaido's custody, he'd find out about it and maybe figure the next best thing would be to give Kaido some good news to offset his anger about losing his supply of SMILEs.
Never underestimate the plot shortcuts and minor technicalities Oda will go through to do cool stuff in this series. It was a timeskip. Lots of things can happen for a mook like Caribou to make contact with a Yonko. Same as Bege rising through Big Mom's ranks enough in one-two years to become head of her wedding security. The timeskio can be used to wave away the intracies of any big power plays. As well as how he likes to underplay big reveals when they're teased. Like having Lola say her mother is just a "famous pirate" when she is one of the four greatest pirate captains in the world. You would think she would be more specific, especially when Sanji and Brook are loligagging about the Pirate Empress' hotness as the first hint of her existence before her official introduction in the background of that same chapter lol.
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Those scans make me painfully aware how much we suffer from a lack of blackbeardpirateness.
Seriously hope we get to see those people interacting again in the near future (and preferably including/focusing on the "ID members")
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Caribou could have very well been talking about Joker, someone not unapproachable unlike the Yonkou crews that have (barring the terribly lax border security we've seen with Big Mom) lots of turf to protect and would be highly guarded and difficult to get in direct contact with. Now that Joker's out of the picture, his plan may have fizzled altogether and being in Kaido's custody, he'd find out about it and maybe figure the next best thing would be to give Kaido some good news to offset his anger about losing his supply of SMILEs.
While that is a completely reasonable in-unvserse hypothesis, at the end of the day we've got to remember that this is a story Oda's writing and this there was probably a reason he had Caribou mention a specific person. That line could be replaced with a general "this is really good info" statement if he was planning to give it to someone who would've been out of the picture before we even see him again. Also, others have pointed out that there's a significant chance Kaido will be the first Yonko to go down in Wano, leaving the timeframe where the Beast Pirates could do anything with the Poseidon info pretty small.
@Count:
Weevil is the seventh Shichubukai. The ugly zombie-esque fat "son" eradicatig what is left of his allies. He wants to hunt Marco, but his mother is making him hunt Luffy for his bounty reward. So he will likely appear in Wano Country.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/802/page/2
Weevil wanted revenge on Blackbeard for killing his "father," but his mom talked him into going for Marco and the Whitebeard remnants instead. Which, in my mind, raises the possibility that both Weevil and BB could show up in Wano. But what do I know, my username doesn't even have correct grammar.
Never underestimate the plot shortcuts and minor technicalities Oda will go through to do cool stuff in this series. It was a timeskip. Lots of things can happen for a mook like Caribou to make contact with a Yonko. Same as Bege rising through Big Mom's ranks enough in one-two years to become head of her wedding security. The timeskio can be used to wave away the intracies of any big power plays. As well as how he likes to underplay big reveals when they're teased. Like having Lola say her mother is just a "famous pirate" when she is one of the four greatest pirate captains in the world. You would thinks he would be more specific, especially when Sanji and Brook are loligagging about the Pirate Empress' hotness as the first hint of her existence before her official introduction in the background of that same chapter lol.
^ Completely agree with this, lol.
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My issue with these other ways is that it kind of undercuts the whole cake subplot. For them to go out of their way to make the cake (with a secret ingredient!), to spend all these chapters on it, only for it to be ineffective, for them to need yet another way to fend off Big Mom, that seems very… pointless. That said, I'm talking about Big Mom specifically. If the Vinsmokes or whatever are fending off BM's naval forces or something while she's unconscious, that's fine.
I do believe that Big Mom will eventually discover the truth about Mother Carmel, I just don't know about it happening in this arc. Or that even if it does happen in this arc, I don't see it playing a role in the Straw Hats escaping safely. Like I see it floated around that her learning the truth would lead to a truce of some kind, but it's very hard to picture how or why that would happen. Regardless, even if someone on the island does know the truth, they don't have any good reason to inform Big Mom of what happened, as far as I can see. Even with Pudding and her powers, all she can do is potentially reveal that Big Mom ate her and the children, but Big Mom herself wouldn't have any memories that are privy to Mother Carmel's treachery anyways.
Well, look at what happened with the entire wedding ceremony and Bege's plan, that fell apart like crazy, and even their escape now is going off the rails. I'd say it's all up in the air and that any plan they have now is extremely subject to failure and change, and that it's fortunate for the Straw Hats that there are back doors to try to get out of this jam if it all goes South.
@Count:
Weevil is the seventh Shichubukai. The ugly zombie-esque fat "son" eradicatig what is left of his allies. He wants to hunt Marco, but his mother is making him hunt Luffy for his bounty reward. So he will likely appear in Wano Country.
That does not sound like Blackbeard at all. He would rather laugh at mistakes/failures like that, not get upset and launch a huge counterattack just because he can. He is not going to kill Burgess just because he failed, that goes against how a man like Teach respects his resources wherever he can still get them. Trashing a Devil Fruit-less crew member like Burgess, especially for losing to an opponent as strong as Sabo, is a stupid choice when such a minion is still decently strong and can get stronger. I hate that cliche altogether too.
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! But I will admit that was the one time the cliche was funny.And what you are saying is funny if you go back and notice little moments where Teach's crewmates, such as Burgess and Shiryu, actually react more provokingly to their defeats than their captain even does. Teach is one of those smug overconfident villains that keeps underestimating the odds against him. Sure, he plans goal posts LONG ahead of time to cunningly undermine the competition. But when it comes to his methods and precautions in action, he recklessly wings everything all of the time.
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3hchjO0YPWk/WBpwieDIsLI/AAAAAAABTY0/O87tDg8Me5Mae8-DNsT3Oy6Dmilp5tPeACHM/s16000/0237-010.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZFpJ2k0d5Iw/WBpxMVABgoI/AAAAAAABTO8/rmQQw6V0ZBkVZLPUtPoyrYQHIFpjotKFwCHM/s16000/0237-011.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YwzJ8isxRdw/WBpSACL3srI/AAAAAAABPMw/41lGmnkSRQgQsjz7PkIYFL8hw8RPz1gOACHM/s16000/0549-002.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8khjZTG5cb4/WBpSo1w6OjI/AAAAAAABNkg/hhrwXpg6OYQys8nSWnJL8btT_zHGe454QCHM/s16000/0549-003.pngIt's not way too soon at all. In fact, a reason why he might come is precisely because he may want to take advantage of the imminent war in Wano Country as an opportunity to kill Kaido. And may succeed in doing so because Kaido's immortality and infamy might make him be one of the rare exceptions of an actual death in the series like Ace and Whitebeard.
They don't have to only go there for the Straw Hats either. It all depends on what kind of role the Whitebeard Remnants will have if you ask me. There is a big chance we are at least finding out more info about Blackbeard from them. And it would make sense for Oda to reintroduce Blackbeard in the same arc the Whitebeard Pirates are reintroduced.
Never underestimate the plot shortcuts and minor technicalities Oda will go through to do cool stuff in this series. It was a timeskip. Lots of things can happen for a mook like Caribou to make contact with a Yonko. Same as Bege rising through Big Mom's ranks enough in one-two years to become head of her wedding security. The timeskio can be used to wave away the intracies of any big power plays. As well as how he likes to underplay big reveals when they're teased. Like having Lola say her mother is just a "famous pirate" when she is one of the four greatest pirate captains in the world. You would thinks he would be more specific, especially when Sanji and Brook are loligagging about the Pirate Empress' hotness as the first hint of her existence before her official introduction in the background of that same chapter lol.
I had a feeling that's who you guys were talking about, the translation I read (and this was a long time ago) called him 'Whitebeer'. So yeah. Not exactly parallel with 'Weevil'. Since that was his only appearance it didn't seem worth looking into any further.
I get what you're getting at, I just think you're pulling it out of thin air. There's just not nearly enough to go on to make that a reasonable prediction regarding Caribou's ultimate fate and the secret he's going to be peddling, or BB getting involved with Wano or other Yonkou this soon. Yes, it COULD happen but there's little reason to think so if any. He's clearly comfortable handling things by proxy and, having failed to obtain the power of the Mera Mera no Mi, doesn't exactly smack of a good time to be making big power plays against other Yonkou. The lack of that additional muscle would make it counter-intuitive and unless we're informed about some other thing he managed to get his hands on in the meantime, there's no good reason for him to start mucking about in a direct fight against a very powerful opponent without knowing for certain what kind of prize he's got his eye on to achieve the sort of goal we're familiar with him being in pursuit of (namely, greater power.) We don't know if Kaido has a DF for certain so stealing that would be feasible but unless we know we can't jump to that conclusion. And if his subordinates only have SMILE DFs, it's not known yet whether those also recycle upon the users' deaths (and if they're Zoans, BB might not value them as much.) I'd just like to see a better case made for him showing up, let alone being the sole person on Caribou's mind to pay top dollar for Shirahoshi's secret identity. It's actually amazing to me that Caribou's mind wasn't absolutely burning up with possibilities to contemplate about who would be most worthwhile to sell that info to, that he'd leap immediately to one doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially if he didn't count on getting halted on his way through the New World that he is quite clearly in NO position to be mucking about in; not a lot going on upstairs. He could have been thinking of someone we've never even met yet, for all the lack of contemplation he's displayed. I'm sick of Nami being one of the only smart people in the series, there's not enough clever opponents to make it intellectually satisfying when they're bested.
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@No:
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/802/page/2
Weevil wanted revenge on Blackbeard for killing his "father," but his mom talked him into going for Marco and the Whitebeard remnants instead. Which, in my mind, raises the possibility that both Weevil and BB could show up in Wano. But what do I know, my username doesn't even have correct grammar.
Thank you for linking the page. That indeed does further hint at Blackbeard's on-panel resurgence taking place in Wano Country.
^ Completely agree with this, lol.
Thanks lol.
I had a feeling that's who you guys were talking about, the translation I read (and this was a long time ago) called him 'Whitebeer'. So yeah. Not exactly parallel with 'Weevil'. Since that was his only appearance it didn't seem worth looking into any further.
Glad that got corrected for you.
I get what you're getting at, I just think you're pulling it out of thin air. There's just not nearly enough to go on to make that a reasonable prediction regarding Caribou's ultimate fate and the secret he's going to be peddling, or BB getting involved with Wano or other Yonkou this soon.
Instead of focusing solely on explicit evidence that Blackbeard has any ties or interest in Wano Country, consider the narrative structure Oda probably has in place given from what we know about his storytelling patterns.
Kaido is going to be the main antagonist of Wano Country. We know this despite not reaching the island yet, even if he is simply working with the Shogun (and it might not be an equal partnership).
Kaido will most likely be taken down at the end of Wano Country. Luffy already got humbled by Big Mom so Oda isn't going to repeat another arc of the Straw Hats escaping a Yonko. And we know that Oda has all of his big arc antagonists get defeated in the arc they meet Luffy in aside from the Admirals, but they are obviously a major exception that is never really the main villain behind an island's turmoil.
Fishman Island is going to be under serious jeopardy in the future. Whether or not it will specifically get destroyed or if it will be by Luffy's hands is up for debate, but we know for sure that Fishman Island is going to get revisited by the story under a major threat of annihilation. When this happens is anybody's guess, but I bet it will be towards the endgame of the series once Raftel and the Final War come into main focus.
If we can agree on all three of these events taking place, then we can ascertain that Kaido will not have enough time to act on Caribou's info even if he learns about Shirahoshi being Poseidon. Do you think that Oda would dangle a plot thread like that only for Kaido to never interact with Fishman Island? Very doubtful. Now, maybe the Beast Pirates could invade the Reverie to try to steal Shirahoshi or something. I doubt they would succeed, but my point is that is the extent I can see of Kaido acting on Caribou's info before/during Wano Country while he is still an active pirate.
If Kaido is most likely not going to collide with Fishman Island despite Caribou easily being a segue into its potential destruction, then who will? There is possibly Big Mom, but I am strongly betting that her role in One Piece's overall plot outside of maybe Elbaf and a cover story is done after this arc. I don't see Oda having Big Mom attack a Fishman Island while the Straw Hats are galavanting around in Wano Country.
Shanks? Pfft, no.
That leaves Blackbeard from basic process of elimination. And while he does not have any explicit connections to Wano Country or Fishman Island (yet), there is at least a decent possibility that it can work. Also, who better to destroy Fishman Island to cement their rise in power than the series' final villain? That is going to be one of the most major incidents in all of One Piece. I have strong doubts about Oda having that be done by one-time arc villains. Yonko maybe Yonko, but Big Mom and Kaido are really stepping stones compared to the big recurring plot-relevant characters like Shanks, the World Government, and Blackbeard.
Of course, the World Government can attack Fishman Island instead of Blackbeard. But regardless, Caribou as a character has to go SOMEWHERE. And if Caesar can be juggled between two Yonko, then so can Caribou.
Feel free to say I'm making all of this up for thin air and am "overanalyzing" the series. But Oda has held off on reintroducing Blackbeard for about 300 chapters thus far with only off-panel references to him and Luffy hearing his voice in Dressrosa. Oda is probably saving his entrance for something big, and Blackbeard needs to come in soon before the Straw Hats get to Raftel to reestablish himself as a primary story threat. The only two arcs that really fit such timing as far as we know are Wano Country or Elbaf. Hell, maybe it can even be both lol.
Yes, it COULD happen but there's little reason to think so if any. He's clearly comfortable handling things by proxy and, having failed to obtain the power of the Mera Mera no Mi, doesn't exactly smack of a good time to be making big power plays against other Yonkou.
You mean like how he tried to kill Whitebeard a mere several hours after Magellan almost killed his crew without breaking a sweat? The Blackbeard Pirates are cheaters, and now Teach has probably mastered Whitebeard's fruit given how he was able to defeat the Whitebeard Remnants in the Payback War.
The lack of that additional muscle would make it counter-intuitive and unless we're informed about some other thing he managed to get his hands on in the meantime, there's no good reason for him to start mucking about in a direct fight against a very powerful opponent without knowing for certain what kind of prize he's got his eye on to achieve the sort of goal we're familiar with him being in pursuit of (namely, greater power.)
We don't need to know what a villain specifically wants in appearing somewhere if we can pick out enough clues indicating that the plot will probably need them there for some reason. We detect the barebones of plot events while Oda takes his time weaving together the meat between them so we see how they connect. But we can tell ahead of time if they might connect at all, that is my point.
If Oda's making a big deal out of the Blackbeard Pirates becoming a Devil Fruit hunters, then part of their interests could be taking out weakened Yonko crew members in Wano Country for easy spoils or somehow being interested in the SMILEs or Devil Fruit creation process. I concede that this is very open-ended any theorizing is pure conjecture, but I don't think it's hard for Oda to drop a quick reason whenever it's convenient.
We don't know if Kaido has a DF for certain so stealing that would be feasible but unless we know we can't jump to that conclusion.
I am not advocating the possibility of Blackbeard stealing Kaido's Devil Fruit, but c'mon, it couldn't be more obvious that he has an eastern dragon Devil Fruit. He is the captain of a Zoan crew, has a dragon tattoo on his chest, Momo himself has a n experimental dragon Devil Fruit, and Kaido is hinted to have the ability to fly despite not having wings since he appeared on the sky island Urouge was resting at. We don't need to wait until Oda is waving around neon signs to get how likely this is.
And if his subordinates only have SMILE DFs, it's not known yet whether those also recycle upon the users' deaths (and if they're Zoans, BB might not value them as much.) I'd just like to see a better case made for him showing up, let alone being the sole person on Caribou's mind to pay top dollar for Shirahoshi's secret identity. It's actually amazing to me that Caribou's mind wasn't absolutely burning up with possibilities to contemplate about who would be most worthwhile to sell that info to, that he'd leap immediately to one doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially if he didn't count on getting halted on his way through the New World that he is quite clearly in NO position to be mucking about in; not a lot going on upstairs. He could have been thinking of someone we've never even met yet, for all the lack of contemplation he's displayed. I'm sick of Nami being one of the only smart people in the series, there's not enough clever opponents to make it intellectually satisfying when they're bested.
Well, what better possibility is there than a Yonko? You think Oda's planted that "specific person" line to hype up some random underworld broker, even though we can clearly see in this arc they're minor supporting characters (including Stussy despite the CP0 twist)? Or one of the Shichibukai even though the only ones left active in the story are Hancock, Kuma, Weevil, and Buggy? Or the World Government even though Caribou is a low rank pirate that has no business towards making deals with the deals? Really, we can only pick between Buggy or Blackbeard lol. Why would he NOT leap immediately and only towards a Yonko when they're, well, a freaking Yonko? One of the four most powerful pirates in the world with all sorts of power and influence.
We have seen smalltime mooks approach bigger fry to rise in power several times in this series. Bege just did it with Big Mom. Bellamy did it with Doflamingo. Caesar has been dealing wit Doflamingo/Kaido and Big Mom. Shanks recruited a rookie like Rockstar who had a bounty as low as 94 million. Bartolomeo might meet the Red Hair Pirates just by raiding a small town to proclaim the word of his lord and savior Luffy. Zoro as an East Blue small fry impressed Mihawk as a potential future contender for the title of World's Strongest Swordsman and convinced him to train him for two years. Hachi has been friends with the Pirate King's first mate since childhood. And let's not forget that Spandam, freaking Spandam, got permission from the Gorosei to investigate the whereabouts the Pluton blueprints and was promoted from head of CP4 to CP9.
You're overthinking this supposed boundary between small names and big names in the One Piece world whereas Oda links up whichever names or plot threads he finds to be interesting and surprising. Your only argument here is that "he's too weak to survive in the New World" when Bellamy somehow made it through and Bartolomeo's crew can get to the New World without a navigator by sheer luck for a gag. And remember Jean Ango, that cactus bounty hunter in the Dressrosa coliseum who actually thought he could be strong enough to take down all of the Impel Down escapees? Small fries have big ambitions in this series, it's nothing new for Oda to capitalize on. It is good for there to be ways for characters to get social mobility through clever networking instead of only by pure strength and conquering.
Why would Oda think this late in the series that Caribou dealing with a brand new name be interesting when we have already hit the ceiling of the big powers in One Piece's world? There's no need to introduce random nobodies at this point to somehow become major characters, especially with information as significant as the location of an Ancient Weapon. Your last sentence about wanting big power players that are influential through intelligence instead of strength is admirable for a series like Hunter x Hunter, but practically a fantasy at this point when we know how One Piece works. The only possible exception is Vegapunk, but notice how Oda is shifting all of the big discoveries and scientific prowess in the One Piece universe to just him while Caesar and Judge pale in comparison just to hype how great he is. As if he thinks we only need one big smart guy in the series to fulfill a necessary worldbuilding niche but only one because anymore would be a boring waste of time.
Lastly, think about this. After Kaido is defeated… What happens to the Whitebeard Remnants for the rest of the story? Do they just leave and are never seen again besides maybe a cover story and the Final War? Having to deal with Blackbeard in a final struggle/sacrificial moment like Bon Clay in Impel Down and Pedro in this arc to let the Straw Hats get away due to still recovering from the battle with Kaido would be something I can easily see Oda doing. Especially as a way to give some of Blackbeard's crewmates power-ups. Especially Burgess. He failed to capture two Devil Fruits and got humiliated by Sabo. Oda probably emphasized Burgess' failures so that he could eventually rise from the ashes again to become surprisingly intimidating as a final arc opponent. Which perfectly embodies what the Blackbeard Pirates are all about as a cunning immoral pirate crew that gains power by stealing power. There is no better example of true piracy in this series than what they have been doing. If Kaku and Kalifa can eat Devil Fruits on-panel before their big fights, then so can Burgess.
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Well, look at what happened with the entire wedding ceremony and Bege's plan, that fell apart like crazy, and even their escape now is going off the rails. I'd say it's all up in the air and that any plan they have now is extremely subject to failure and change, and that it's fortunate for the Straw Hats that there are back doors to try to get out of this jam if it all goes South.
The big difference here though is that there's not really anywhere for the arc to go after this since they were already escaping to begin with, and more importantly, it's basically being touted as Sanji's moment to shine. We had their arrival, up to Cracker's defeat. Then ya got Pudding's betrayal up until the wedding. And now we're at the escape part, with the climatic fight currently occurring. If this clearly felt like this was the middle portion of the arc or whatever, maybe I'd agree with you, but it isn't. Things are slowly but surely coming to a close, so the cake should actually mean something here in my opinion.
They're already doing the best they can in regards to escaping, with it being repeatedly emphasized (happened yet again in this very chapter) that the cake is the key here. Bege's plan in comparison was much briefer, and regardless, it obviously wasn't going to work anyways since it involved killing a Yonko. Whereas the Straw Hats wanting to escape, and using the cake to do it, is far more feasible. As for it going off the rails, it is currently as stable as it can be under these circumstances. (Ignoring Pedro's death anyways) Of course the lead-up to the cake being baked is going to have a few bumps along the way. (Like a theoretical Oven v. Sanji fight for example) But once it is made and fed to Big Mom, I don't expect Oda to have made all of that setup all for naught, where she's still an immediate threat to them.
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@ Count Mario: Sorry, I can't agree to those three points so the rest of the argument is not going to do it for me (plus I'm about to go to bed so I'm too tired to read it at the moment). I find it highly unlikely Kaido himself will be present on Wano at this point in the story for the same reason you gave (not a repeat of 'fight Yonkou, get in over their heads, escape'), only my solution to not resorting to this again is, simply fighting Kaido's goons like Jack since they weren't all together like during the Mink territory attack. With the entire Straw Hat crew assembled things should be very interesting but still there's no reason to throw them up against an even more powerful Yonkou. Provided that they do not make contact with the Kidd/Hawkins/Apoo alliance any time soon, I'm going to remain unconvinced Kaido will show up for Wano personally. Wano may be just a buildup arc like how Punk Hazard was to Dressrosa. I see that as a more likely scenario than the alternative.
@ Blissed: I don't know what they're going to do to that cake. Is it just going to be 'so delicious' that she falls asleep after she eats it, so satisfied will she be upon finishing it? Is she going to fall into a diabetic coma from all that sugar? Is it going to be full of tranquilizers? Is it going to have some kind of hallucinogen in it that makes her see a horrific vision of Mother Caramel's true evil self? I mean, I'll grant there's a bunch of possibilities from the cake alone but there's no way that alone is going to be enough to get the Straw Hats out safely since just because mama's down for the count doesn't mean every single other person working under her isn't going to fight tooth and nail to kill them. The Vinsmokes seem to be set up to really facilitate their escape, whether that means standing in Big Mom's way or just her kids' way. In any case it's only a temporary situation so unless the Vinsmokes get wiped out, they'll still be making a move on Big Mom herself, since if she's unconscious she'll be more vulnerable than otherwise (although maybe not as much as when she goes into that upset screaming thing.)
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@ Count Mario: Sorry, I can't agree to those three points so the rest of the argument is not going to do it for me (plus I'm about to go to bed so I'm too tired to read it at the moment). I find it highly unlikely Kaido himself will be present on Wano at this point in the story for the same reason you gave (not a repeat of 'fight Yonkou, get in over their heads, escape'), only my solution to not resorting to this again is, simply fighting Kaido's goons like Jack since they weren't all together like during the Mink territory attack. With the entire Straw Hat crew assembled things should be very interesting but still there's no reason to throw them up against an even more powerful Yonkou. Provided that they do not make contact with the Kidd/Hawkins/Apoo alliance any time soon, I'm going to remain unconvinced Kaido will show up for Wano personally. Wano may be just a buildup arc like how Punk Hazard was to Dressrosa. I see that as a more likely scenario than the alternative.
But Kaido needs to be taken down by Luffy. It is the only way for Wano Country to be liberated. Luffy already made a promise with Momo to kick Kaido's ass as the huge emotional climax of Zou aside from Raizou's safety (Luffy declared war on Big Mom too, but that came at the tail end of Fishman Island as extra unexpected smack talk after the day was already saved). Kine'mon has a phobia of dragons, which would be explained well if Kaido himself transformed into a dragon to roast Oden to death. Kaido's whole design is entirely themed around Japanese attire and lore, which is what Wano Country is all about. Several of the Supernovas are going to be present in Wano Country due to links with Kaido. A Road Poneglyph is on Wano Country just like in Big Mom's territory. Wano Country has been built-up since Thriller Bark and Luffy is gathering an entire army to fight Kaido there specifically.
I very VERY much doubt that Oda is doing all of that just so Kaido is relaxing on another island away from the conflict. I would argue that Zou or probably every arc since Punk Hazard has been the "Punk Hazard" to Wano Country. Oda already even said in an interview that he doesn't want Luffy to defeat Kaido just by throwing a really strong punch, so we already know they are going to fight soon.
Your thoughts likely lie on the idea that Wano Country is only one of Kaido's territories while Kaido probably has some base somewhere, but that does not have to be the case. Shanks seems to drift through places all of the time without staying in one place for too long. If Kaido is determined to find Raftel, which he definitely is since that was the whole point of antagonizing Oden, then he is most certainly going to be present in Wano Country. Wano Country is an arc hyped up like Alabasta.
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Wano a build up-arc? No way. Narratively-wise we really are in need of an actual climactic arc for the New World because we just hadn't a single climactic arc in the new world. And no, Dressrosa only was another build up-arc… for the Kaido climax.
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God, Count… I love reading your analysis posts with my morning coffee, but you really need to borrow some conciseness from Daz
All this discussion makes me badly itch for some Blackbeard moments, I really hope we get to see him again soon.
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(…) And no, Dressrosa only was another build up-arc... for the Kaido climax.
I guess you're right. With half of the SHs missing, it wasn't climactic, but it was a huuuge build-up arc (compared to the likes of drumm or Little garden). I've re-read quite some bits of DR and when the SH-fleet "came out", everyone wondered why Luffy turned his fleet-captains down. If you read DR as a whole, you understand Luffy's thoughts better. After all the $hit he has seen how Doffy manipulated everyone and how he "caged" the whole Island literally, he didn't want to become even a single bit of a leader like DD. So he said:"No, I won't be your fleet leader! Do whatever you want!" Nevertheless, sailing under the SH-flag is exactly what Sai and co wanted to do.
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Hmmm. Talking of Caribou I always had a feeling he was talking about Crocodile, seems like a perfect plot to re-introduce him to the storyline given his previous in regards to the ancient weapons.
Any thoughts? -
OMG!! Guys, I can't say much but you guys are in for an amazing treat in the next chapter.
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@Count:
But Kaido needs to be taken down by Luffy. It is the only way for Wano Country to be liberated. Luffy already made a promise with Momo to kick Kaido's ass as the huge emotional climax of Zou aside from Raizou's safety (Luffy declared war on Big Mom too, but that came at the tail end of Fishman Island as extra unexpected smack talk after the day was already saved). Kine'mon has a phobia of dragons, which would be explained well if Kaido himself transformed into a dragon to roast Oden to death. Kaido's whole design is entirely themed around Japanese attire and lore, which is what Wano Country is all about. Several of the Supernovas are going to be present in Wano Country due to links with Kaido. A Road Poneglyph is on Wano Country just like in Big Mom's territory. Wano Country has been built-up since Thriller Bark and Luffy is gathering an entire army to fight Kaido there specifically.
I very VERY much doubt that Oda is doing all of that just so Kaido is relaxing on another island away from the conflict. I would argue that Zou or probably every arc since Punk Hazard has been the "Punk Hazard" to Wano Country. Oda already even said in an interview that he doesn't want Luffy to defeat Kaido just by throwing a really strong punch, so we already know they are going to fight soon.
Your thoughts likely lie on the idea that Wano Country is only one of Kaido's territories while Kaido probably has some base somewhere, but that does not have to be the case. Shanks seems to drift through places all of the time without staying in one place for too long. If Kaido is determined to find Raftel, which he definitely is since that was the whole point of antagonizing Oden, then he is most certainly going to be present in Wano Country. Wano Country is an arc hyped up like Alabasta.
I also don't agree he needs to be taken down by Luffy (necessarily). What happened to one Yonkou already? Taken down by the Marines/Blackbeard in a cumulative effort. Luffy's got 3 Shichibukai under his belt after Doflamingo so I'd expect him to add a few more before he's done, but not a Yonkou, that's more an end-of-series thing since after that, where the hell do you go from there? Plus Blackbeard has to do something to establish himself as top dog and be there for Luffy to take down in the climax since they're the only D people of that kind of ambition and destiny it would seem. Unless Luffy takes out one other Yonkou shortly before, just to show he's capable of the same sort of feat as Blackbeard, it wouldn't make sense. And even if that's the case that Luffy defeats Kaido, it sure as hell isn't happening NOW or even anytime soon. He can't even put a dent in Big Mom and Kaido can fall off a damn sky island and not get a scratch on him when he hits the ground. Even with a big alliance of Supernovas, it's extremely dubious and were that the case, Luffy certainly wouldn't do it single-handedly so that wouldn't even count anyway.
I do view Dressrosa as a finale arc since Doflamingo's been a huge boss battle in the making since he arrived on the scene. Kaido also likely has other things on his mind (his new prisoner Caribou and his little secret, perhaps) and, again, how exactly is anyone supposed to achieve the sort of feat of strength that can topple him when even someone not at his level, i.e. Big Mom, is insurmountably strong at this point? None of these things add up to Kaido being taken down in the moment. He might make an appearance but there's no way someone's going to beat him. If they do the series is over. Think about what you guys are saying for a moment, and consider what the facts are rather than what you WANT. You WANT Oda to have a cheap pulled-out-of-his-ass victory here? I don't. That would utterly wreck the reputation of the Yonkou irreparably. There has to be SOME consistency. Luffy beating Big Mom's second-in-command who, let's be generous and say is 1/2 to 2/3 as strong as her; how does that then translate into, within a ridiculously short span, beating someone even stronger than Big Mom? Once you figure out a way to make that math work, let me know, because right now it's not adding up.
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OMG!! Guys, I can't say much but you guys are in for an amazing treat in the next chapter.
Can't wait to see Pound getting beat up!
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God, Count… I love reading your analysis posts with my morning coffee, but you really need to borrow some conciseness from Daz
Thank you and sorry, I will make sure to improve on that over time.
All this discussion makes me badly itch for some Blackbeard moments, I really hope we get to see him again soon.
Same. We need to see the best characters in One Piece again.
I also don't agree he needs to be taken down by Luffy (necessarily). What happened to one Yonkou already? Taken down by the Marines/Blackbeard in a cumulative effort. Luffy's got 3 Shichibukai under his belt after Doflamingo so I'd expect him to add a few more before he's done, but not a Yonkou, that's more an end-of-series thing since after that, where the hell do you go from there? Plus Blackbeard has to do something to establish himself as top dog and be there for Luffy to take down in the climax since they're the only D people of that kind of ambition and destiny it would seem. Unless Luffy takes out one other Yonkou shortly before, just to show he's capable of the same sort of feat as Blackbeard, it wouldn't make sense. And even if that's the case that Luffy defeats Kaido, it sure as hell isn't happening NOW or even anytime soon. He can't even put a dent in Big Mom and Kaido can fall off a damn sky island and not get a scratch on him when he hits the ground. Even with a big alliance of Supernovas, it's extremely dubious and were that the case, Luffy certainly wouldn't do it single-handedly so that wouldn't even count anyway.
I do view Dressrosa as a finale arc since Doflamingo's been a huge boss battle in the making since he arrived on the scene. Kaido also likely has other things on his mind (his new prisoner Caribou and his little secret, perhaps) and, again, how exactly is anyone supposed to achieve the sort of feat of strength that can topple him when even someone not at his level, i.e. Big Mom, is insurmountably strong at this point? None of these things add up to Kaido being taken down in the moment. He might make an appearance but there's no way someone's going to beat him. If they do the series is over. Think about what you guys are saying for a moment, and consider what the facts are rather than what you WANT. You WANT Oda to have a cheap pulled-out-of-his-ass victory here? I don't. That would utterly wreck the reputation of the Yonkou irreparably. There has to be SOME consistency. Luffy beating Big Mom's second-in-command who, let's be generous and say is 1/2 to 2/3 as strong as her; how does that then translate into, within a ridiculously short span, beating someone even stronger than Big Mom? Once you figure out a way to make that math work, let me know, because right now it's not adding up.
The problem with your assessment is that this is Oda we are talking about. He LOVES making Luffy the hero despite how absurd the odds often are. Either Luffy saves the day by being the guy to give the grand final blow to the big bad after a huge fight or no big bad gets taken out by anybody in an arc. At best, we get tragic defeats like the Straw Hat separation and the deaths of Ace and Whitebeard when Oda deviates from his traditional storytelling formula. And those defeats do not come at the expense of leaving a land stay terrorized by a megalomaniacal pirate. The Straw Hats didn't need to worry about Kizaru and Kuma threatening to destroy Sabaody Archpelago since only the Supernovas were their only targets. Everybody in Amazon Lily loves Boa Hancock, the only people who's lives were at stake were Margaret and one or two of her friends. Nobody's lives were at stake in Impel Down aside from the prisoners who were already trying to leave with Luffy. Marineford is not an island tyrannically ruled by the Marines (even though it has a port town), just a home base they decided to have a war at. In Wano Country, however, the livelihood of a whole country's population is at stake. Along with close samurai friends of Luffy. Luffy NEEDS to get rid of the Beast Pirates, he can't lose or escape in that arc. Which means Kaido needs to be taken down since there is a 99% chance that, yes, he will be present there and most likely as the main antagonist.
The only exceptions that Oda has ever taken with how an arc villain is defeated are: Zoro defeating Morgan (Morgan was very weak though and Oda loves Zoro), Zoro defeating pre-steroid Hody (again, Oda loves Zoro almost to the point of him being the second protagonist), and Jack getting taken out by Zunisha as a slight anomaly. But the last thing is easily excusable by how he will most likely return in time for Wano Country to face the vengeful Mink tagteam of Nekomamushi and Inurashi. You may try to say that this arc is an exception since Sanji is the one baking the cake to stop Big Mom, but I guarantee you that Luffy is going to be the one tasked with the most major role in getting her to actually eat the cake like throwing it into her mouth with a Gear Fourth attack. Thus becoming the "hero" of Totland.
There is no point in Luffy taking down another Warlord at this point when he is already directly challenging the Yonko. Oda is always trying to gradually step up Luffy's challenges to a new level of difficulty while keeping things fresh in how a villain fights beyond having a stronger power level. He also likes having Luffy be the unlikely underdog. So if Luffy defeats or at least stalemates Katakuri in their current fight to show that he is on-par with the best Yonko Commanders, then what do you think is the next step for Oda to take in making his story suspenseful? Pitting Luffy against a Yonko. And it is easy to look at that and say Luffy is hardly ready, but Luffy always gets small strength increases in arcs after defeats. Look at how Luffy lost to Crocodile twice before winning the third round all in the same arc. Or when CP9 completely dominated the Straw Hats in Enies Lobby while the Straw Hats somehow got power-ups during the train ride in-between Water 7 and Enies Lobby. He can easily get a new power-up, probably Awakening, in either the current fight or Wano Country in time for Kaido. Luffy fighting against Cracker and Katakuri can easily be interpreted as Oda pushing Luffy's limits in time for his fight with Kaido as training.
Additionally, Luffy does not have to fight Kaido one-on-one. It can be a team-up fight. In fact, if you know who Greg is, he theorizes that Luffy will actually need help to fight against Kaido. Specifically by having Momo, Marco, and Inurashi by his side as a direct parallel to the famous Japanese tale of Momotaro. Momo is Momotaro, the main hero of the tale with the travel party Luffy the Monkey, Inurashi the Dog, and Marco the Pheasant who are fighting against Kaido: the Oni terrorizing the land. Although Momo will obviously be the Vivi/Shirahoshi/Rebecca of the arc while Luffy stays as the protagonist lol. Oda already referenced Momotaro in using those same three animal titles for the pre-timeskip Admirals, so he already likes referencing the story. Luffy already teamed up with Law against Doflamingo and Trebol so big team-up fights aren't unprecedented. But like I said before, Oda always wants Luffy to save the day and defeat the main villain. Which means that like the fight with Doflamingo, Luffy (and probably Momo too if Luffy rides his back while in the sky or something) will fight Kaido alone for at least the last third of the fight while everybody else is incapacitated.
As for how Kaido can be taken down, I don't know. But Oda literally admitted that he himself didn't know either during an interview from around a year ago lol. Yet the fact he talked about that at all implies the confrontation is happening soon. Keep in mind that Kaido killed Oden. In the same way that Arlong killed Bell-mere, or Hody killed Shirahoshi, or Doflamingo killed Rosinante. Big Mom can get away with not being physically defeated by Luffy in the overall plot of One Piece because most of her atrocities are on-panel and she hasn't actually killed anybody important in a conscious state (and I guarantee you that Oda is going to reveal that Pedro and Linlin's dead sons are still alive by the end of the arc). But Kaido? He is currently irredeemable. He needs to get his ass kicked. In front of Momo and the samurai, just like how Luffy always defeats villains in front of the people they have oppressed and traumatized to inspire them. It's simply how One Piece has always worked.
By having Kaido defeated in a teamup like that and through some unknown means that isn't brute force, Luffy is not being put above or even on Kaido's level by defeating him. Thus still leaving room for growth during the rest of the series before Luffy finally confronts the likes of Blackbeard and the Admirals in direct combat. There is no way out of getting a fight a with Kaido, so this is the only way Oda can have the rest of the story still stay suspenseful without Luffy becoming the World's Strongest Man too early.
It is not that I WANT Oda to pull a random absurd victory out of his ass. I hope it is good. What I am saying is that Oda LITERALLY ADMITTED that he does not know how Luffy wants to defeat Kaido and that he wants Luffy to win in a way other than how he typically beats villains with giant punches. Here is the literal quote:
@Eiichiro Oda:
When Kaidou appeared for the first time, I said that Luffy can't defeat such a strong character yet. And I'm yet to know how Luffy would defeat Kaidou. Probably my audience will not be satisfied if the reason for defeating Kaidou is just because Luffy's punch is so strong. Luffy and I have to find a solution somehow.
http://www.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=42229&page=26=p#508
Oda would never say something so explicit ahead of time unless he thought it was obvious that Luffy is going to fight Kaido in an arc as soon as Wano Country and that his victory will be through some kind of unique means. You are underestimating how creative Oda can have Luffy's fights be. Like Mizu Luffy in Alabasta. Or when Luffy outmaneuvered Enel's Mantra by making himself dizzy and punching a wall to randomly attack the entire area, and then finishing Enel with a giant golden ball punch. Or Lola powering up Luffy into becoming Nightmare Luffy during Thriller Bark. Oda does not care about something as superficial as "the reputation of the Yonko" when he is letting Big Mom be "defeated" by being fed a cake. He has always been a funny and kooky author at heart in this surreal adventure story.
I do view Dressrosa as a finale arc too, but Oda is switching up his game a little bit by having the New World arcs be more interconnected plot and character-wise than pre-timeskip. And why does Kaido need to focus on Caribou in another island? Why can't Drake just bring Caribou to Wano Country? I bet one of Kaido's other prisoners, Kid, is probably there too if Wano Country is the current base of operations for the Beast Pirates in finding info about Raftel (hence why Kaido interrogated and killed Oden before starting the search for Momo and the missing samurai).
Oda's willpower towards having Luffy save the day against impossible odds is very strong. Never underestimate how far Oda will go to show that.
Here are a couple posts from Greg that help support my thoughts on Wano Country and Kaido.
This is me the past 6 months:
There are many ways to defeat an enemy.
"NO THERE AREN'T!"
Yes, yes in fact there are. Even One Piece has proved this and it will continue to.
"LUFFY NEEDS TO PHYSICALLY BEAT BIG MOM HARD!"
Well, if he did that he would be considered on the same level as a Yonkou. That is to say the same level as Shanks. If Luffy is on the same level as Shanks it completely messes with our expectations for Luffy for the rest of the series.
"NO IT WOULDN'T!"
Yes, yes in fact it would. There's no more vertical growth beyond that aside from Pirate King on the OP world Pirate Level Tree. This removes the shock of a high bounty but still relatively fresh pirate taking out Kaidou.
In all likelihood, Luffy will not straight-up beat Kaidou by himself. That would be absurd. It would make Luffy the strongest being in the world by default and that, again, simply isn't interesting.
I. Promise. You.
The exact same people whining about how Luffy isn't going to trounce Mom (and he will do JUST that in a very unique way this arc) would be complaining in two years about how Oda 'broke the power balance' when Luffy already beat a Yonkou but has a hard time with Kaidou.
It. Would. Happen.
Now those people are gnashing their teeth (despite my advice) but into two years they'll be cheering with excitement and I'll be sitting here smgdmfh.
I see what you're suggesting! That's very interesting, I hadn't considered that.
Although I'd tweak that a bit you're saying that the:
Ninja-Pirate-Mink-Samurai Alliance = Momotarou and representatives of each part stand for a Momotarou lead.
I'm of the belief that:
Momo (Momotarou), Luffy (Monkey), Wanda/Dogstorm (Dog), Marco/Kuzan (Pheasant)
stand for the roles but going by your observation it would suggest that:
Momo (Samurai/Momotarou), Luffy (Pirate/Monkey), Wanda/Dogstorm (Mink/Dog) AND….. UNKNOWN WANO NINJA (Ninja/Pheasant)
I like this idea very much! I still can't shake the feeling of Marco's involvement considering Catviper is looking for him and that the team must be able to fly/soar/climb in order to go toe-to-toe with Kaido, but a yet-unknown ninja could just as easily fill that role.
Great observation!
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OMG!! Guys, I can't say much but you guys are in for an amazing treat in the next chapter.
I guess the cake is ready then, that was fast.
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Throwing Blackbeard into things is like impaling oneself on Occam's Razor at this point. BB didn't bother showing up to Dressrosa to get the Mera Mera no Mi and didn't seem to care to retaliate by leveling the place for angering him (though there's no telling what will become of Burgess for failing…but then, he did take his anger out on the Revolutionaries which makes sense.)
I didn't really see Blackbeard attacking the revolutionaries as him venting his anger out. It is not really throwing Blackbeard into the mix just because I want to, in fact he can stay off panel as much as he wants. When I first joined here, I had this 5% hope he wouldn't be the final villain. Obviously, I was aware that it was just denial the entire time, I just did not like him. So it is not about putting my favorite character anywhere, it was a conclusion from the evidence we can see in the story.
It's just way too soon for him to be showing up now for any reason,
Considering that we have been told that the story is around its 70% mark and we haven't even gotten to Wano, there is not much room to keep pushing Blackbeard into the background much longer.
and they'd have no way of knowing the Straw Hats were going to Wano
There is though. If Kidd and his alliance could figure out that Luffy was targeting Kaido after the defeat of Doffy, then any other character can arrive at the same conclusion. That is not to mention that Luffy declared publicly to Big Mom that he would defeat Kaido first, in front of Big News Morgans. The ways the story can have Blackbeard find out about the Straw Hats destination are just growing as we get closer to Wano.
This is not to mention that many of the black market leaders are there, and if we go back to the conversation with Aokiji, that is yet another way to be informed.
and given the BB agenda of DF hunting, it's unlikely they'll risk getting into a skirmish with any other Yonkou at the moment, until they're fully prepared. That's how he operates.
It is exactly because Blackbeard is hunting for devil fruits that him attacking Kaido makes sense. This is different from Blackbeard launching an attack on Wano or the Beast pirates. He will literally wait for Luffy and company to succeed or fail and gauge the situation to see if they can attack or not. Such a war is bound to have powerful devil fruit users, which makes it a perfect chance to increase the Blackbeard pirates prowess.
Even though Kaido's army has Smile fruit users, they still have real devil fruit powers, like the ones we saw with Jack. I will assume that the upper echelon of the Beast Pirates have real devil fruits to separate them from the Gifters.
If Blackbeard hears about Luffy attacking Kaido, I bet that he will trust Luffy to at least crumble enough of the crew so the Blackbeard has an easier time.
Caribou could have very well been talking about Joker, someone not unapproachable unlike the Yonkou crews that have (barring the terribly lax border security we've seen with Big Mom) lots of turf to protect and would be highly guarded and difficult to get in direct contact with. Now that Joker's out of the picture, his plan may have fizzled altogether and being in Kaido's custody, he'd find out about it and maybe figure the next best thing would be to give Kaido some good news to offset his anger about losing his supply of SMILEs.
He could have, but considering that Joker is not in the picture anymore and Caribou is, then it is very unlikely it was Joker. It does not have to be Blackbeard, as another user mentioned:
Hmmm. Talking of Caribou I always had a feeling he was talking about Crocodile, seems like a perfect plot to re-introduce him to the storyline given his previous in regards to the ancient weapons.
Any thoughts?Crocodile is another character that was interested in Ancient Weapons, so the information could be for him. I am also not denying Caribou telling Kaido about Poseidon, because that might make him send King and Queen to the Reverie for puns galore. However, even if Kaido enacts on the information it is very unlikely it will play a role after Wano, therefore the information will still be useful.
I get what you're getting at, I just think you're pulling it out of thin air. There's just not nearly enough to go on to make that a reasonable prediction regarding Caribou's ultimate fate and the secret he's going to be peddling, or BB getting involved with Wano or other Yonkou this soon. Yes, it COULD happen but there's little reason to think so if any.
I would disagree. At this point in the story Luffy already has two Road Poneglyphs, and going for the third against Kaido. It is from Wano that things are going to escalate, and fast. If you see the pieces being set up, then it is not far fetched to come to this conclusion:
- Kaido has a devil fruit army of over 100 people. Not sure about the exact number. Blackbeard is hunting devil fruit users. That is not to mention every fruit user that Luffy will bring including the Whitebeard pirates.
- Weevil is targeting the Straw Hats and Marco, two people that will ally in Wano to fight. However, Weevil also said that Blackbeard is his most hated enemy, therefore Blackbeard is going to be Weevil's final opponent.
- Blackbeard knows where Wano is, and if Kaido figured that hunting Roger's old crewmates could gain him information on Raftel, Blackbeard whom is most likely acquainted with Oden, should be doing so as well.
- Blackbeard successfully attacked the headquarters of the revolutionary army, so he is not shy about making risky moves to acquire more power.
- Blackbeard storming the aftermath of Wano is such a Blackbeard move that meme's will be born from it.
He's clearly comfortable handling things by proxy and, having failed to obtain the power of the Mera Mera no Mi, doesn't exactly smack of a good time to be making big power plays against other Yonkou.
But he did a big power play against the revolutionary army, a group that Mango included when he went on his rant about the throne wars.
The lack of that additional muscle would make it counter-intuitive and unless we're informed about some other thing he managed to get his hands on in the meantime, there's no good reason for him to start mucking about in a direct fight against a very powerful opponent without knowing for certain what kind of prize he's got his eye on to achieve the sort of goal we're familiar with him being in pursuit of (namely, greater power.)
He raided the revolutionary army, he is bound to have acquired at least more weapons for his fleet. Again this is not Blackbeard vs Kaido. It is Blackbeard storming Wano after Luffy and company have defeated Kaido.
We don't know if Kaido has a DF for certain so stealing that would be feasible but unless we know we can't jump to that conclusion. And if his subordinates only have SMILE DFs, it's not known yet whether those also recycle upon the users' deaths (and if they're Zoans, BB might not value them as much.)
We know that his subordinates have real devil fruit powers because of Jack, I am sure he is not the only one with a real devil fruit in the crew.
I'd just like to see a better case made for him showing up, let alone being the sole person on Caribou's mind to pay top dollar for Shirahoshi's secret identity.
As mentioned before, it could be Crocodile. By process of elimination Blackbeard and Crocodile seem to be the most likely choice.
It's actually amazing to me that Caribou's mind wasn't absolutely burning up with possibilities to contemplate about who would be most worthwhile to sell that info to, that he'd leap immediately to one doesn't make a lot of sense.
It does not make sense if he was not working for anybody. But from his statement we can conclude that he indeed has a single "boss".
Especially if he didn't count on getting halted on his way through the New World that he is quite clearly in NO position to be mucking about in; not a lot going on upstairs. He could have been thinking of someone we've never even met yet, for all the lack of contemplation he's displayed. I'm sick of Nami being one of the only smart people in the series, there's not enough clever opponents to make it intellectually satisfying when they're bested.
It could be someone we have not met yet. However, I do not like making bets on non-existent characters, so my guess has to be someone that the story already introduced.
@Count:
Fishman Island is going to be under serious jeopardy in the future. Whether or not it will specifically get destroyed or if it will be by Luffy's hands is up for debate, but we know for sure that Fishman Island is going to get revisited by the story under a major threat of annihilation. When this happens is anybody's guess, but I bet it will be towards the endgame of the series once Raftel and the Final War come into main focus.
If Caribou's employer is Blackbeard, and the latter does indeed come to Wano, then news from Fishman Island could come sooner than we expect.
That leaves Blackbeard from basic process of elimination. And while he does not have any explicit connections to Wano Country or Fishman Island (yet), there is at least a decent possibility that it can work. Also, who better to destroy Fishman Island to cement their rise in power than the series' final villain? That is going to be one of the most major incidents in all of One Piece. I have strong doubts about Oda having that be done by one-time arc villains. Yonko maybe Yonko, but Big Mom and Kaido are really stepping stones compared to the big recurring plot-relevant characters like Shanks, the World Government, and Blackbeard.
I think that Blackbeard's connection to Whitebeard, which in turn was connected to both Fishman Island AND Wano is enough to start exploring the possibility.
Feel free to say I'm making all of this up for thin air and am "overanalyzing" the series. But Oda has held off on reintroducing Blackbeard for about 300 chapters thus far with only off-panel references to him and Luffy hearing his voice in Dressrosa. Oda is probably saving his entrance for something big, and Blackbeard needs to come in soon before the Straw Hats get to Raftel to reestablish himself as a primary story threat. The only two arcs that really fit such timing as far as we know are Wano Country or Elbaf. Hell, maybe it can even be both lol.
Depending on what sort of secrets Elbaf has, then that burning tree could be very likely.
I am not advocating the possibility of Blackbeard stealing Kaido's Devil Fruit, but c'mon, it couldn't be more obvious that he has an eastern dragon Devil Fruit. He is the captain of a Zoan crew, has a dragon tattoo on his chest, Momo himself has a n experimental dragon Devil Fruit, and Kaido is hinted to have the ability to fly despite not having wings since he appeared on the sky island Urouge was resting at. We don't need to wait until Oda is waving around neon signs to get how likely this is.
Given that mythical zoan Buddha exists, I would not put it past Oda to make a mythical zoan oni(ogre) fruit.
"They are often depicted wearing tiger-skin loincloths and carrying iron clubs called kanabō (金棒). This image leads to the expression "oni with an iron club" (鬼に金棒 oni-ni-kanabō), that is, to be invincible or undefeatable. It can also be used in the sense of "strong beyond strong", or having one's natural quality enhanced or supplemented by the use of some tool. In addition to this, it can mean to go overboard, or be unnecessarily strong or powerful." But that is a whole different discussion.
Lastly, think about this. After Kaido is defeated… What happens to the Whitebeard Remnants for the rest of the story? Do they just leave and are never seen again besides maybe a cover story and the Final War? Having to deal with Blackbeard in a final struggle/sacrificial moment like Bon Clay in Impel Down and Pedro in this arc to let the Straw Hats get away due to still recovering from the battle with Kaido would be something I can easily see Oda doing.
Not to mention how powerful a line would be if Marco tells Teach that the man that will be pirate king will be Luffy.
I also don't agree he needs to be taken down by Luffy (necessarily). What happened to one Yonkou already? Taken down by the Marines/Blackbeard in a cumulative effort. Luffy's got 3 Shichibukai under his belt after Doflamingo so I'd expect him to add a few more before he's done, but not a Yonkou, that's more an end-of-series thing since after that, where the hell do you go from there?
The warlords were done for as soon as Mango was the first threat in the New World. Considering how Luffy whooped him, the only one still relevant as a threat is Weevil, but considering his hate for Blackbeard, it seems that will be his final target rather than Luffy.
Plus Blackbeard has to do something to establish himself as top dog and be there for Luffy to take down in the climax since they're the only D people of that kind of ambition and destiny it would seem. Unless Luffy takes out one other Yonkou shortly before, just to show he's capable of the same sort of feat as Blackbeard, it wouldn't make sense.
The difference is, Luffy will defeat Kaido, Blackbeard might just kill him and steal the devil fruit powers of his crew. Blackbeard on the other hand is more likely to defeat Shanks, and if the World Government can finish off Big Mom, then these three groups will have a lot of credibility moving towards the final war.
And even if that's the case that Luffy defeats Kaido, it sure as hell isn't happening NOW or even anytime soon. He can't even put a dent in Big Mom and Kaido can fall off a damn sky island and not get a scratch on him when he hits the ground. Even with a big alliance of Supernovas, it's extremely dubious and were that the case, Luffy certainly wouldn't do it single-handedly so that wouldn't even count anyway.
It will count, because the alliance will most likely be there to overcome Kaido's insane durability. Luffy will still be the one to injure him the most. Again the story is at around 70%, and with how Oda paces his arcs saying that the emperors are going to be dealt later leaves no room for: the final war, Raftel, Elbaf, last island that the log pose points to, Wano.
I do view Dressrosa as a finale arc since Doflamingo's been a huge boss battle in the making since he arrived on the scene. Kaido also likely has other things on his mind (his new prisoner Caribou and his little secret, perhaps) and, again, how exactly is anyone supposed to achieve the sort of feat of strength that can topple him when even someone not at his level, i.e. Big Mom, is insurmountably strong at this point? None of these things add up to Kaido being taken down in the moment. He might make an appearance but there's no way someone's going to beat him. If they do the series is over. Think about what you guys are saying for a moment, and consider what the facts are rather than what you WANT. You WANT Oda to have a cheap pulled-out-of-his-ass victory here? I don't.
No one does, Kaido is going to be in Wano, he is already there unless you believe that the islands were we see him talking to Apoo and Kidd is not Wano.
That would utterly wreck the reputation of the Yonkou irreparably. There has to be SOME consistency. Luffy beating Big Mom's second-in-command who, let's be generous and say is 1/2 to 2/3 as strong as her; how does that then translate into, within a ridiculously short span, beating someone even stronger than Big Mom? Once you figure out a way to make that math work, let me know, because right now it's not adding up.
The emperors are done for. With Big Mom, considering only half the crew is there, we just needed to see if the crew could escape safely from them, which so far they have, not only accomplishing their goals, but also wrecking Mama's party and her troops. Mama's reputation is done for, she will still be active afterwards though. Kaido? He is just waiting for someone to beat him up. Luffy beating Katakuri is all we need to hope that he can overcome Kaido. If Luffy would not have defeated Cracker nor Katakuri then I would be inclined to agree more.
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@K.:
If Caribou's employer is Blackbeard, and the latter does indeed come to Wano, then news from Fishman Island could come sooner than we expect.
Precisely. Although I wonder if Shirahoshi's identity as Poseidon will be exposed at the Reverie.
I think that Blackbeard's connection to Whitebeard, which in turn was connected to both Fishman Island AND Wano is enough to start exploring the possibility.
Okay, now I am 100% banking on my theory of Blackbeard attacking Fishman Island (hopefully with Pluton). Thank you for reminding me of those things, I completely forgot.
Depending on what sort of secrets Elbaf has, then that burning tree could be very likely.
Also true.
Given that mythical zoan Buddha exists, I would not put it past Oda to make a mythical zoan oni(ogre) fruit.
"They are often depicted wearing tiger-skin loincloths and carrying iron clubs called _kanabō (金棒). This image leads to the expression "oni with an iron club" (鬼に金棒 oni-ni-kanabō), that is, to be invincible or undefeatable. It can also be used in the sense of "strong beyond strong", or having one's natural quality enhanced or supplemented by the use of some tool. In addition to this, it can mean to go overboard, or be unnecessarily strong or powerful."
But that is a whole different discussion._
Kaido has horns on his head like Oars and Oars Jr. Oars Jr. got a hat Ace made in Wano Country as a gift. Moria tried to revive Oars as his secret weapon against Kaido for revenge. Moria tried to claim Oars Jr. as a replacement. Moria somehow got Ryuma's corpse from Wano Country. Moria is hinted to be in the New World due to being saved by Absalom, who has become an investigative reporter in the New World while riding on a ship with Moria's flag on it.
I am going to stick with my prediction of Kaido being the same breed of Giant that Oars and Oars Jr. are, probably a hybrid due to not matching their size or sharp teeth but still having their horns and similar muscle/body shape. Leaving Kaido's Devil Fruit to be an eastern dragon Mythical Zoan. As well as Moria returning as an ally in Wano Country.
Not to mention how powerful a line would be if Marco tells Teach that the man that will be pirate king will be Luffy.
That would be freaking awesome.
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@Count:
Precisely. Although I wonder if Shirahoshi's identity as Poseidon will be exposed at the Reverie.
I think it will. I would say that this is the Reverie where things fall apart.
Okay, now I am 100% banking on my theory of Blackbeard attacking Fishman Island (hopefully with Pluton). Thank you for reminding me of those things, I completely forgot.
Pluton a submarine? Interesting, I know coating could do the job as well. If the Reverie ends with Poseidon's identity revealed, then I would imagine that Fishman Island is done for. The government will send their forces, other kings, some will hire someone which opens it up to the world basically.
Kaido has horns on his head like Oars and Oars Jr. Oars Jr. got a hat Ace made in Wano Country as a gift. Moria tried to revive Oars as his secret weapon against Kaido for revenge. Moria tried to claim Oars Jr. as a replacement. Moria somehow got Ryuma's corpse from Wano Country. Moria is hinted to be in the New World due to being saved by Absalom, who has become an investigative reporter in the New World while riding on a ship with Moria's flag on it.
I am going to stick with my prediction of Kaido being the same breed of Giant that Oars and Oars Jr. are, probably a hybrid due to not matching their size or sharp teeth but still having their horns and similar muscle/body shape. Leaving Kaido's Devil Fruit to be an eastern dragon Mythical Zoan. As well as Moria returning as an ally in Wano Country.
Then I will stick to mine: where Weevil is indeed a zombie, made possible by Moria's awakening. :3
That would be freaking awesome.
Yeah, it is something I have had in my mind for a while. On the other hand, if Weevil was produced by Moria's awakening, then I expect some other funny stuff.
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@K.:
Pluton a submarine? Interesting, I know coating could do the job as well. If the Reverie ends with Poseidon's identity revealed, then I would imagine that Fishman Island is done for. The government will send their forces, other kings, some will hire someone which opens it up to the world basically.
I'm betting on something more like Blackbeard trying to attack Mariejois and/or the Sunlight Eve Tree topside above Fishman Island is, and the effects from those attacks spreading to Fishman Island. Hence why Oda put those two places near each other so ironically.
Then I will stick to mine: where Weevil is indeed a zombie, made possible by Moria's awakening. :3
He does look awfully zombie-esque.
Yeah, it is something I have had in my mind for a while. On the other hand, if Weevil was produced by Moria's awakening, then I expect some other funny stuff.
I just want to see Moria have his Chapter 0 chin again.
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@Count:
I'm betting on something more like Blackbeard trying to attack Mariejois and/or the Sunlight Eve Tree topside above Fishman Island is, and the effects from those attacks spreading to Fishman Island. Hence why Oda put those two places near each other so ironically.
I do forget that they are dependent on the light to survive. The entire point of the migration to begin with. Destroying the tree would have that effect.
He does look awfully zombie-esque.
And he is so dumb, he needs his mother to remind him of what he has to do constantly. Because he is so dumb, I thought that Moria used awakening on Whitebeard's body to produce a shadow, that's why he has Whitebeard's strength, but is dumb as a brick.
I just want to see Moria have his Chapter 0 chin again.
Kaido's move when raiding should always be dropping from the sky. Moria having fun and Kaido literally just drops. Another question is, was Apoo working with Kaido before he made an alliance with Kidd? Or did he just saw Kidd getting pummeled and surrendered.
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Good god, that is WAY too much crap to respond to, you guys are killing me here.
Give me one good reason to think that Kaido is personally on Wano. Just one. I've not heard one yet that was convincing.
Someone comparing Big Mom's systematic defeats is insane…Luffy's the one doing the work every time, against Cracker and now Katakuri. The rest of the crew is either simple assistance or not involved.
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Give me one good reason to think that Kaido is personally on Wano. Just one. I've not heard one yet that was convincing.
Well, the crew is occupying Wano and he and the Shogun boiled Oden alive personally, so…..
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We talkin' Kaido? I'm still personally cheering for the "Throw Kaido into The Sun" method, myself
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After all kaidou did to moria, there is no way, as in no freaking way, moria doesn-t get to finish kaidou. as in steal his shadow and finish him then with maybe the only way to kill kaidou.
And going based on the momotarou story, you completely ignore the actual important characters from the manga. momo helping luffy fly is likely, dogstorm, wanda and marco no.
The full worst generation, as in D. law and kid among them, didn-t just gather there so they cant eat popcorn and look how dogstorm and wanda and unknown character ninja beat kaidou.
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Good god, that is WAY too much crap to respond to, you guys are killing me here.
At least is very elaborate ''crap'' as opposed to your simple opinion that Kaido won't be defeated in Wano, although he is just a giant Oni boss in a japanese themed island, who terrorises it's inhabitants and killed the parents of the friends of the protagonists and is built to be stopped along with his atrocities in the specific area where he commited them, and in a climax that is built ages now.
And your own argument against all this is that is boring because it is predictable or because Kaido seems too strong. What is the crap again? -
Good god, that is WAY too much crap to respond to, you guys are killing me here.
Give me one good reason to think that Kaido is personally on Wano. Just one. I've not heard one yet that was convincing.
Someone comparing Big Mom's systematic defeats is insane…Luffy's the one doing the work every time, against Cracker and now Katakuri. The rest of the crew is either simple assistance or not involved.
How does Momo get vengeance on Kaido if only his crewmates are fought in Wano Country? That's like Luffy defeating Arlong's crew in Arlong Park but Arlong is fought in Whiskey Peak. Why would Oda go from an arc with a whole Yonko crew present to an arc with only a Yonko's crewmates present?
The other crewmates not getting fights is because Oda is not interested in having lots of fights in this arc. Probably because he wants the Charlotte Family to be forced to team up with the Straw Hats to quell Big Mom at some point.