@Hannibal:
Prior to chapter 882, Luffy was worried about the fact Big Mom had been chasing his crew, so he was unable to fight properly.
What does this have to do with Katakuri's ability to use observation haki?
From Chapter 882 and onward, Katakuri stated Luffy had evaded a lot of his attacks. The point is Katakuri failed to land any decisive blows and even after Katakuri started doubling up, he was still missing. Bottom line, Katakuri was missing his attacks.
Katakuri was missing attacks, but he also was connecting others, especially in 882 where he traps Luffy in Mochi and the start of 883 where he prevents gear fourth's transformations by hitting Luffy in the face and burying him under a mochi dessert.
How does someone who can apparently use Observation Haki while focusing on attacking at the same- see the future, and still miss?
As I said outside factors, and we already disagree that the future is fixed. So, even if Katakuri can see the future, if his body cannot keep up with his vision he will not be able to capitalize on his vision.
or be surprised at the outcome of his attacks missing like against Sanji?
That is because Katakuri saw through observation haki that Sanji would dodge the priest. Katakuri being faster than the priest reacted before the latter could. Therefore, his action took place before the priest could react, and Sanji, another observation user only reacted to Katakuri's intent. Leading to Katakuri shooting the priest.
The fact that Sengoku was surprised implies he wasn't using it because he couldn't use it whilst attacking, that's the point I've been making.
Here is the flaw, you are implying several things on one clause. Why not go further? "Sengoku wasn't using observation haki while attacking because he cannot do it while in his Buddha Form". While it is much simpler to say: "he just wasn't using observation haki". You are implying that he has to have been using it because x, y, z. But observing what happened, we can conclude he was not using it, that is all. Any reasonings are merely speculation.
Also, the explanation you gave regarding Luffy avoiding his hands not getting chopped off doesn't suffice. There were other occasions in that fight where Mihawk failed to hit Luffy when he wasn't using Observation.
It does suffice, that is not how a proof by contradiction works. You stated a clause, and I only need to find one example to debunk it. Yes, there were other instants where Mihawk failed to hit Luffy, but he also did hit him at least once(Chapter 561- Luffy vs Mihawk). Luffy is a capable fighter so he will be able to at least dodge some of the attacks.
> You go on to say that Observation Haki users of similar skill produce different outcomes Yes, each will have a vision of their own and will depend on their skills to enact on them. My point still is that outside factors will affect the outcome of observation haki visions. Even further, simply having observation haki even if the levels are different will affect the outcome. However the superior user will eventually win.
? So, you're now implying that Luffy was of similar skill to Mihawk? Questionable and dubious conclusion there; no way Luffy was of equal skill level to Mihawk.
No, this is something you have implied, I don't think Mihawk was using observation haki during Marine Ford.
How can you claim 2 Observation Haki users produce different outcomes when even Observation Haki users vs. non-Observation Haki users couldn't guarantee their own attacks' success.
Because it comes down to outside factors again. In a battle between an observation haki user and a non user, then the skills of each one will also factor in when seeing through a successful attack. Even though the little girl from Skypeia is an observation user, I doubt she would be able to win a fight against any non-user.
We see this in Skypiea, Amazon Lily and many times in Marineford. They clearly cannot, otherwise, even when Luffy wasn't using Observation Haki, he'd have been cut by Mihawk more than once. He only used Observation Haki against Mihawk once.
Or in some of those instances they were not using observation haki at all. And Luffy is an incredibly adept fighter that has honed his instincts of battle quite well. I see it as Luffy dodging them because of his skills.
The future is set in stone, Mihawk and Luffy doesn't prove otherwise so at all. Whether or not there's interference is of no relevance. Even when no one came to aid Luffy, he missed his attacks. Multiple consecutive attacks against Luffy…. he missed all.
! https://i.imgur.com/uMoCz1W.png
No the future is not set in stone. Luffy saw that Mihawk was going to cut his arms if he saw through his Bazooka, so he stopped and the future changed. Katakuri is a prime example on how the future is not set in stone. Jigra was going to keep complaining and shoot two of Bege's subordinates dead, that is the vision Katakuri saw through observation haki, to which he enacted his actions and changed them by shooting Jigra first.
And Katakuri shooting Sanji proves the future is set in stone regardless of interference, Observation takes that into account. Katakuri saw Pudding fall to the ground before even Sanji (outside interference) said she was beautiful which triggered her falling down. This is the order of what transpired:
Sanji was the reason Pudding fell to the ground, in accordance to that vision, Sanji was not outside interference. Outside interference is based mainly on the actions taken by the observation haki user. In this instance, Sanji would not be outside interference, Katakuri shooting first would.
1. Pudding unveiled her 3rd eye.
2. Sanji saw her eye and complimented it. Note Katakuri didn't know why Pudding was going to fall in the ground meaning he wasn't aware Sanji was going to say anything.
3. Pudding was shocked, fell to her knee.
Katakuri saw her do point 3 meaning Observation does take into account interference. The future is set in stone. Doesn't mean it can't be stopped in its tracks. Exactly like what happened with Jigra. He was going to say Big Mom killed his father, the future was set in stone. All that happened was Katakuri shot him before he could state what he wanted.
You just contradicted yourself here. If the future is set in stone then Katakuri would be unable to change it. Observation does not take into account outside interference, it only shows the intentions of others. Katakuri seeing that the priest missed his shot was something that was going to happen, but because Katakuri shot first his actions changed the sequence of events and the future was different.
And Bege saying the future can be changed isn't saying Observation Haki is infallible, that's not the context. Katakuri saw Sanji dodge the priest, he however didn't see the success or failure of his own attack which is why he was surprised Sanji dodged it. The context in which Bege made that statement is alluding more to the fact that whatever Katakuri has seen, his intervention isn't guaranteed to change the outcome. He can't use Observation Haki to guarantee the success of his own intervention or attacks. It can only be used whilst focusing on Observing the opponent.
No, Bege was directly referring to Katakuri's ability to see the future ahead of time and being able to enact on it to change it. Bege retorts to that premise by stating that even if Katakuri can see ahead and act first, everyone can still change the future to mold it to their own vision. Everyone has that power, only that Katakuri has a head start.
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However, I think the crux of the discussion lies here. How do you define observation haki to be. Observation haki is the ability to see opponents actions, intentions whatever you want to call it, before they occur. Yes, however the vision observation haki sees is in a vacuum, and it does not take into account outside interference: mainly the actions of the user seeing the vision.
Examples:
Luffy saw that if he kept going with his attack both his arms would have been cut. However, outside interference (Luffy himself) was able to avoid that future by changing the direction of his attack.
Katakuri saw that Jigra was going to shoot two of Bege's subordinates. That would have happened unless outside interference (Katakuri) shot Jigra.
Once you start analyzing fights, because fighting is a continuous actions, not turned based. Even if Katakuri is observing ahead of time, his actions will start changing the outcome, the speed of each fighter will affect the outcome. That is why at first, whenever Luffy dodged, Katakuri was intercepting him. His vision would be: "I attacked here, and he dodged left" so he also attacks left. As the fight progressed, He did the same, but Luffy being a capable fighter, started to get used to Katakuri's tactics, and he is an observation user as well. Therefore he was able to dodge that sequence of attacks.