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One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves
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This post is deleted!
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I just think that Oda gave Katakuri his "edgy" design as an irony of how the rest of the BM pirates looks straight out of Wonderland. So yeah, there might be a justification for him to look like that.
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Had to delete my post because I was being way too harsh, reading it back made me feel bad lol. But yeah it creates a nice contrast with all the lunacy going on in Whole Cake island. I mean if there were several stoic and serious looking crewmembers then we could say it's repetitive but that's not the case. Having an imposing figure in the crew and let's face it most serious crews have them. Shiryu in Blackbeard's crew, Zoro in Luffy's, Jack in Kaido's, Ben Beckmann in Shanks', Vergo in Doffy's…you get the point, having one is OK it's practically become the norm. If every member in a crew was whacky and non-serious the balance would be tilted to the point the chemistry becomes dysfunctional. Without Katakuri I think it would be fair to say that Strawhats would have blitzed through this arc and made a clean getaway and that's no fun for us readers, as much as we would like to see Wano already.
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Had to delete my post because I was being way too harsh, reading it back made me feel bad lol.
It's too late now, I caught it!
Nah, you're right. I was too quick to misjudge the Count's character. The world is filled with pretentious a-holes, myself included from time to time. I should know better than to think articulate and passionate is synonymous with elitist condescension.
It's a pretty slippery slope, though.~
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Had to delete my post because I was being way too harsh, reading it back made me feel bad lol. But yeah it creates a nice contrast with all the lunacy going on in Whole Cake island. I mean if there were several stoic and serious looking crewmembers then we could say it's repetitive but that's not the case. Having an imposing figure in the crew and let's face it most serious crews have them. Shiryu in Blackbeard's crew, Zoro in Luffy's, Jack in Kaido's, Ben Beckmann in Shanks', Vergo in Doffy's…you get the point, having one is OK it's practically become the norm. If every member in a crew was whacky and non-serious the balance would be tilted to the point the chemistry becomes dysfunctional. Without Katakuri I think it would be fair to say that Strawhats would have blitzed through this arc and made a clean getaway and that's no fun for us readers, as much as we would like to see Wano already.
I'm always game to have a stoic and serious looking person in every crew. I appreciate Zoro, Robin, and now Jimbei being crew members. Having only comedic and wacky characters would get too boring, and both sides need antitheses to fully work. It's just that… most of those designs you mentioned have more creativity going on than with Katakuri. I give Katakuri credit for contrast with his crew, which was likely done on-purpose. But looking at his design and personality on its own, it doesn't really do much. Unlike the green haired, triple earring swordsman with samurai garb and three katana called Zoro. Or the guy with M. Bison-esque officer attire with small skull designs and smoking cigars named Shiryu. Or Vergo wielding bamboo, having zigzag sideburns, and food stuck on his face while wearing a quilted coat. They work informatively and/or stylishly, while I think Katakuri lacks in both.
Not that Shiryu, Jack, or Vergo are spectacular characters or anything lol, they can easily be called bland too (same with Mr. 1). But they had more going on in what their designs said about them and their personalities. Shiryu is also a sadist jail warden that doesn't like recklessness while Jack loves to torture and find excuses to cause violence instead of making verbal compromises. Only Vergo's as downright stoic and stoic only as Katakuri, but at least he had two gags. And it kind of helps that their abilities seem to be more focused and organically versatile...
But that is all I have to say on the topic. I don't think much more ground can be treaded.
I hope Luffy finally activates Gear Fourth next chapter. Or does some sort of weird tactic. He's gotten his ass kicked enough for us to get the point about Katakuri's strength. It would be kind of cool if the mirrors were worked into the fight somehow. Like Luffy punching into one mirror and that fist coming out the other. But that won't work while Brûlée is conscious and away from him.
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Just hope Katakuri doesn't get overconfident, stupid or forgets part of his skillset during the course of the fight.
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Yes, let's not hope that Katakuri becomes Doflamingo.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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I have a feeling his trident is going to be used as some new ability he has yet to reveal.
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@Count:
Yes, let's not hope that Katakuri becomes Doflamingo.
Lucci taking on G3 punch came to mind first, but yeah, there's also Doflamingo losing more and more imagination while fighting.
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Lucci taking on G3 punch came to mind first, but yeah, there's also Doflamingo losing more and more imagination while fighting.
Now that I think about it, Doflamingo did the exact same thing Lucci did by not taking Gear Fourth seriously before it landed a punch lol.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Jazzy:
It's too late now, I caught it!
Nah, you're right. I was too quick to misjudge the Count's character. The world is filled with pretentious a-holes, myself included from time to time. I should know better than to think articulate and passionate is synonymous with elitist condescension.
It's a pretty slippery slope, though.~
I saw how nice you were being after so I had to take back my words. I could only respect you for that and also sorry you had to read what I wrote.
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Lucci taking on G3 punch came to mind first, but yeah, there's also Doflamingo losing more and more imagination while fighting.
To be fair, in both instances they were bewildered at the ridiculousness of Luffy's techniques aesthetically, and the name. At least the first intro of G3 and G4 anyways.
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Hello, I'm Hannibal Psyche, and I'm new to this forums. Been reading as a non-registered member, and I've found the discussions pretty stimulating to read and interesting. I hope I'm welcome here!
I'll just like to add that regarding Observation Haki, there's a lot of ambivalence and confusion regarding why it seems to work sometimes and then other times, seems non-existent. It can even appear as though Oda is confused and uses it for the purposes of pure convenience rather than it having a fundamental mechanism regarding its workings.
Observation Haki has limitations, though not stated in the Manga, it's heavily implied. Anytime we see Observation Haki working, it's when characters are not attacking, but simply watching or observing; this is when we see those flashy and sleek feats of evasion.
However, when characters begin to fight, we literally can't tell if it's even playing a role. That's actually because it plays no role in the heat of battle. Observation Haki requires a lot of concentration, therefore, as soon as a character decides to commit to a fight or an attack, the ability to use Observation Haki is negated. This is why Katakuri despite how great his Observation Haki is surprised when Sanji dodges the bullet, and bare in mind at this point, Sanji is also not attacking. However, when a character commits to an attack, Observation Haki is non-functional. It's in a sense a defensive manoeuvre or pseudo-offensive one at best.
It's rather difficult to point out this mechanisms without using pictures and I don't want to hijack this page as I tend to ramble on a lot. If anyone is interested in detailed writing with references and pictures as to how I have come to this conclusion: Can read it on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/70bozz/misconception_regarding_observation_haki/
On another note, I'm also personally of the belief Luffy will defeat Katakuri to keep it short and sweet. One of the reasons I think he's been beat black & blue thus far is because he's been worried about his crew. Since he took Katakuri into the Mirror world, he said he needed to focus on Katakuri, and I thought isn't that what he's been doing the entire time he's been fighting Katakuri up until he told Nami to break the mirrors? Now it's broken and he still says he needs to focus on Katakuri, why should anything change? and then it dawned on this chapter that he's been unable to focus on Katakuri the way he needs to because the crew are being chased down by Big Mom, but now they're presumed dead, he no longer has to worry about the crew and can finally focus on Katakuri as he wishes. That's how I interpreted this chapter after some time thinking. Initially I felt there really was no progression with this chapter, but with my new perspective, I see it as progress now and can't wait for the latest chapter to come!
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@Hannibal:
Hello, I'm Hannibal Psyche, and I'm new to this forums. Been reading as a non-registered member, and I've found the discussions pretty stimulating to read and interesting. I hope I'm welcome here!
I'll just like to add that regarding Observation Haki, there's a lot of ambivalence and confusion regarding why it seems to work sometimes and then other times, seems non-existent. It can even appear as though Oda is confused and uses it for the purposes of pure convenience rather than it having a fundamental mechanism regarding its workings.
Observation Haki has limitations, though not stated in the Manga, it's heavily implied. Anytime we see Observation Haki working, it's when characters are not attacking, but simply watching or observing; this is when we see those flashy and sleek feats of evasion.
However, when characters begin to fight, we literally can't tell if it's even playing a role. That's actually because it plays no role in the heat of battle. Observation Haki requires a lot of concentration, therefore, as soon as a character decides to commit to a fight or an attack, the ability to use Observation Haki is negated. This is why Katakuri despite how great his Observation Haki is surprised when Sanji dodges the bullet, and bare in mind at this point, Sanji is also not attacking. However, when a character commits to an attack, Observation Haki is non-functional. It's in a sense a defensive manoeuvre or pseudo-offensive one at best.
It's rather difficult to point out this mechanisms without using pictures and I don't want to hijack this page as I tend to ramble on a lot. If anyone is interested in detailed writing with references and pictures as to how I have come to this conclusion: Can read it on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/70bozz/misconception_regarding_observation_haki/
On another note, I'm also personally of the belief Luffy will defeat Katakuri to keep it short and sweet. One of the reasons I think he's been beat black & blue thus far is because he's been worried about his crew. Since he took Katakuri into the Mirror world, he said he needed to focus on Katakuri, and I thought isn't that what he's been doing the entire time he's been fighting Katakuri up until he told Nami to break the mirrors? Now it's broken and he still says he needs to focus on Katakuri, why should anything change? and then it dawned on this chapter that he's been unable to focus on Katakuri the way he needs to because the crew are being chased down by Big Mom, but now they're presumed dead, he no longer has to worry about the crew and can finally focus on Katakuri as he wishes. That's how I interpreted this chapter after some time thinking. Initially I felt there really was no progression with this chapter, but with my new perspective, I see it as progress now and can't wait for the latest chapter to come!
Welcome to the forum!
IIRC Luffy used it initially during Marinford. He was attacking Mihawk when he suddenly used it, which allowed him to see what would have happened, and changed the direction of his attack. This implies it is used regularly during battles. -
Haki was a mistake
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@Hannibal:
Hello, I'm Hannibal Psyche, and I'm new to this forums. Been reading as a non-registered member, and I've found the discussions pretty stimulating to read and interesting. I hope I'm welcome here!
Welcome to Arlong Park Forums, how tough are ya? Please answer in the proper manner. Observation Haki can certainly be used while attacking. I would say Eneru/Enel combining observation with his electricity is proof enough. Watching Katakuri intercept Luffy while he is zipping off in a Soru/Shave maneuver pretty much tells me the same thing as well.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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Welcome to the forum!
IIRC Luffy used it initially during Marinford. He was attacking Mihawk when he suddenly used it, which allowed him to see what would have happened, and changed the direction of his attack. This implies it is used regularly during battles.Welcome to Arlong Park Forums, how tough are ya? Please answer in the proper manner. Observation Haki can certainly be used while attacking. I would say Eneru/Enel combining observation with his electricity is proof enough. Watching Katakuri intercept Luffy while he is zipping off in a Soru/Shave maneuver pretty much tells me the same thing as well.
Thank you thegab and RomanceDawn!
Concerning Observation Haki. Every time we've seen it function, it's while Observing.
1. Marigold is not attacking, just observing, it works as we usually see.
2. When Rayleigh is not attacking, but just observing, it works as we usually see.
3. When Luffy is not attacking, but just observing, it works as we usually see.
4. Same phenomenon here, just observing, and it works as we usually see it.As soon as a character commits to an attack or is fighting:
1. It's surely reasonable to believe Sengoku has Observation Haki. When he attacks Luffy, why is he surprised he expanded? It appears as though he's not aware that Luffy will expand. If he could have used Observation Haki whilst in combat, he should have known, and yet, he didn't.
2. Mihawk intended to kill Luffy to test if he had luck or fate on his side since Shanks bet on him. Every attack that Mihawk threw at Luffy, all missed.
3. When Katakuri attacked Luffy, he missed like he did against Sanji exclaiming "he dodged!" implying he was surprised; if he saw the outcome, he wouldn't have shot Sanji because it was a wasted effort.As soon as an opponent commits to attacking, they begin to express surprise and shock - you can't be shocked or surprised or caught off-guard by something you know is coming.
The best example of how Observation Haki really cannot be used in battle is the fight between Gan Fall and Shura. Shura is an observation Haki user, as soon as he and Gan Fall started to fight, Gan Fall who didn't possess was actually winning that fight and landed a fatal blow against Shura. He caught Shura Off-guard. Anyone watching that fight wouldn't have known who was a Haki user unless they were told before hand because there's no way it could have been distinguished.
Regarding Luffy using it at Marineford:
The principle I mentioned is at work here.
- Luffy opted to use a bazooka attack where he stretches his arms behind him.
- Also, the first attack where he saw Mihawk hit him, he also wasn't attacking when he evaded it.
It is because he stretched his arms behind that gave him the opportunity or time to observe Mihawk to see the future and at the same time, because he wasn’t committed to the attack, he was able to use Observation Haki.
Most people would never have that sort of time, therefore, they commit to attacks meaning Observation Haki can’t be used. If Mihawk could have seen the success of his own attack, he’d have thrown a decisive blow or none of he knew it’d be evaded.
Observation will see the future where you're not fighting or attacking, but once you commit to either, Observation Haki is no longer appealable. Once you commit to an attack, you’re throwing it without knowing if it hits or not, but with conviction and hope.Observation Haki requires a lot of concentration, I'm sure some of you recall when Zoro used Observation Haki too, he was focusing intensely. When Usopp used it too, he was focusing intensely too and sweating a pile because of the amount of focus needed. That's why when a character commits to attacking or fighting (meaning they're committed to attacking or fighting), they're unable to make use of Observation Haki, they're not attacking halfheartedly but with intent and ultimately hope and assumption it'd land, not with certainty, otherwise, no character with Observation Haki would miss their attacks.
Also, when Katakuri kicked Luffy using Soru, it also doesn't mean he used Observation Haki. Blueno used Soru against Luffy and Luffy did the exact same thing, or am I thinking of against Coby? As Katakuri said, in speed, he's superior. Observation Haki being in use there would imply he's not faster than Luffy if he's seeing ahead of time and acting accordingly while that manoeuvre there would be proof he's indeed superior in speed if he did catch Luffy without Observation Haki which seems the more likely thing.
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@Hannibal:
As soon as a character commits to an attack or is fighting:
1. It's surely reasonable to believe Sengoku has Observation Haki. When he attacks Luffy, why is he surprised he expanded? It appears as though he's not aware that Luffy will expand. If he could have used Observation Haki whilst in combat, he should have known, and yet, he didn't.
2. Mihawk intended to kill Luffy to test if he had luck or fate on his side since Shanks bet on him. Every attack that Mihawk threw at Luffy, all missed.
3. When Katakuri attacked Luffy, he missed like he did against Sanji exclaiming "he dodged!" implying he was surprised; if he saw the outcome, he wouldn't have shot Sanji because it was a wasted effort.As soon as an opponent commits to attacking, they begin to express surprise and shock - you can't be shocked or surprised or caught off-guard by something you know is coming.
Welcome to the forums!
I'd just like to add that those examples show lack of consistency more than anything else. I'd allow the possibility not all Observation users are so good to be able to use prediction all the time, and that the mental state can affect one's ability to use it. It only makes sense.
But the hardened veterans should be able to observe while in the heat of battle.But when you introduce such a concept, you need to incorporate it in fights between people who have the ability, not just have it play part in short bursts.
Smoker vs Vergo seemed to have been a good example of two fighters constantly predicting what the other is going to do for a while.
Btw, Mihawk did hit Luffy once, but the emphasis was put more on his acute vision than anything else. Who knows, maybe Mhawk's Observation is centered around his eyes.
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Welcome to the forums!
I'd just like to add that those examples show lack of consistency more than anything else. I'd allow the possibility not all Observation users are so good to be able to use prediction all the time, and that the mental state can affect one's ability to use it. It only makes sense.
But the hardened veterans should be able to observe while in the heat of battle.But when you introduce such a concept, you need to incorporate it in fights between people who have the ability, not just have it play part in short bursts.
Smoker vs Vergo seemed to have been a good example of two fighters constantly predicting what the other is going to do for a while.
Btw, Mihawk did hit Luffy once, but the emphasis was put more on his acute vision than anything else. Who knows, maybe Mhawk's Observation is centered around his eyes.
Thanks for the welcome!
The way Armament Haki works for everyone is the same way Observation Haki works for everyone. One Piece after all is all about consistency. When we know that Seastone will drain DF users or render them unable to use their abilities, we can expect Seastone to always do this.
There are principles regarding Observation Haki or any form of Haki, so there has to be a way in which we see it functioning that's consistent and explains the result we get every-time it's used.
Every time we've seen Observation Haki being used, it's never been whilst attacking, that much I can state to be a fact all the way from Skypiea until now.
Even if we want to use Katakuri as the height of Observation Haki mastery, even he has been caught by surprise and failed to land attacks. Why?
When he predicted what Luffy was going to say, what was he doing? Not attacking. When he saw that Sanji was going to Judge the Priests' attack, what was he doing? Not attacking. In every instance, he was simply observing. As soon as he started attacking, everything he does from that point onward is either hit or miss. Observation Haki will predict the actions of a person, but once an Observation Haki user intervenes, the future is unknown - it's the only thing that explains why he and all other users have failed to land attacks against anyone and more so against non-Haki users.
Think of the stakes at Marineford, Sengoku was protecting Ace, and Luffy got up unto that platform. If Observation Haki functioned the way so many suppose, Sengoku should have instantly begun to use Observation Haki, he's the Fleet Admiral, he holds a lot of responsibility. He failed to secure that execution. The big thing there is, why was he surprised Luffy inflated if he was able to use Observation Haki whilst attacking? Why was he shocked? The logical conclusion is, he couldn't use it just like Katakuri couldn't.
Skypiea makes this so clear once understand with this premise in mind. Shura was able to predict what Chopper will do, but as soon as he started attacking Chopper, his attacks never landed despite trying to kill him, Chopper actually evaded; Chopper successfully evading contradicts the notion that Observation can be used whilst fighting.
Satori too also never attacked whilst exercising Observation Haki, he was sat atop one of the cloud spheres and observing the SHs. He never initiated any attacks when predicting, he predicted first by Observing, and then countered when the SHs had moved into attack, and due to momentum, couldn't move out the way to evade or react in time.
The reason so many people are confused regarding Observation Haki is because they think it can be used in the heat of battle or whilst attacking and expect it to do more than it can - all powers have limitations. Mihawk's slashes also all missed. No blows were landed against Luffy despite the fact he is an Observation Haki user.
This is an idea is new as far as I know, but it's the only explanation that works regarding Observation Haki. Can you show one instance where Observation Haki has been used whilst committing to an attack? As far as my knowledge of the series goes, not one panel exhibits such activity.
Edit: Getting the hang of the quoting system on this forum, bit different to others I've used, lol.
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@Hannibal:
Can you show one instance where Observation Haki has been used whilst committing to an attack? As far as my knowledge of the series goes, not one panel exhibits such activity.
http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/879/16
There, panel 3. How else do you call Katakuri's counter-attack catching an evading Luffy while just a moment before he was himself on the offensive ? And I wouldn't be surprised if close scrutiny of Luffy vs Doflamingo returned some similar examples.Altogether I do subscribe to the notion that, when used defensively, observation haki requires the user to be in a peaceful and focused state of mind - exactly like defense in a real world fight - and therefore committing to an attack reduces its efficiency. However I don't think it is as absolute as you want it to be.
And welcome aboard!
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It's been established in Skypiea already that it can't be used if the user lost concentration or is shaken up.
But I don't see why some veterans who spent their lives fighting should be unable to use Observation while attacking.
Also, Marineford examples aren't completely reliable when it comes to explaining Haki. It was a weird transitional period.
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Haki was a mistake
Nah. There is no way they could kept going if every logia they encounter had to be defeated by some Deus Ex Machina in the enviroment.
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Nah. There is no way they could kept going if every logia they encounter had to be defeated by some Deus Ex Machina in the enviroment.
Haki as a power system was indeed a mistake. All we needed was Armament, colorless Armament at that, and everything could have worked out fine.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
Haki as a power system was indeed a mistake. All we needed was Armament, colorless Armament at that, and everything could have worked out fine.
Okay. Remove Usopp's sniping at Sugar and Luffy's Conqueror Haki at Marineford. No one absolutely liked that.
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Jinbei was absolutely amazing! I cannot wait to see him with the rest of the crew. :wub:
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Okay. Remove Usopp's sniping at Sugar and Luffy's Conqueror Haki at Marineford. No one absolutely liked that.
I completely forgot about Luffy using Conquerer's Haki at Marineford until you mentioned it lol. I doubt that is a moment people would highlight as one of their favorite moments during the war. It was only Luffy whining about Ace dying so much that he unconsciously activated a power he couldn't control that knocked out the fodder executioners and earned him brownie points with the other strong people there giving discount lines like "Oh, that boy used Conquerer's! He must have great potential!", as if that's something we didn't already know after the times it happened on Sabaody Archipelago and Amazon Lily. It literally contributed nothing other than delaying Ace's fate and reminding us Luffy had Conquerer's.
A better moment you could have highlighted was when Luffy used Conquerer's Haki at Fishman Island to knock out 50,000 people. That is a moment I could actually credit to Luffy's skill in how he trained his Haki over the timeskip. But all it did was eliminate irrelevant fodder and build up false hype, like Conquerer's Haki is infamously known for always underwhelmingly doing. The only points in the manga where it actually contributed to the plot in a way that was absolutely needed was when Shanks scared off the Sea King in Chapter 1 and Rayleigh unlocked Camie's explosives at Sabaody Archipelago.
Now Usopp sniping Sugar, that was a cool moment. But it came after Usopp's attempt to snipe Sugar and Trebol got completely off-paneled earlier in the arc, and relied on an accidental gag of making a scary face. It was a great feat for Usopp, don't get me wrong, but it's not like it's impossible to think up something just as or more impressive with Usopp's role in Dressrosa. Like, I don't know…
What if Usopp figured out a way to light Trebol on fire and eliminate him (and perhaps Sugar as well) by explosion instead of that dumb useless suicide bombing against Law, perhaps even while Luffy and Law were fighting Doflamingo? That would have been freaking awesome. Usopp taking down somebody as powerful as Trebol in a way that only he could, especially when this happened when Luffy tried to fight him:
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The funny part is that his initial plan to take down Sugar centered around making her eat a grape laced in tatababasco sauce that was super hot. Imagine if Usopp found a way to force or fool Trebol into eating that, thus accidentally igniting an explosion from his mucus. That would have been hilariously glorious.
But alas, Usopp is only going to be stuck fighting either extremely weak people or young girls with hax Devil Fruit powers until his final fight with Van Augur at the end of the series. Seriously, what is up with Usopp never fighting any marksman? I will never stop complaining about that, although it connects to the larger subject of Oda neglecting guns as a whole compared to Devil Fruits, fists, swords, and Haki.
So as I said before. Outside of Skypiea and the necessity of needing an ability to make physical contact with Logias, Haki as a power system was a mistake. Useless false hype from Conquerer's Haki, constantly ignored or overpowered Observation Haki, imaginary power levels of willpower with Armament Haki, it's all a freaking mess.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/879/16
There, panel 3. How else do you call Katakuri's counter-attack catching an evading Luffy while just a moment before he was himself on the offensive ? And I wouldn't be surprised if close scrutiny of Luffy vs Doflamingo returned some similar examples.Altogether I do subscribe to the notion that, when used defensively, observation haki requires the user to be in a peaceful and focused state of mind - exactly like defense in a real world fight - and therefore committing to an attack reduces its efficiency. However I don't think it is as absolute as you want it to be.
And welcome aboard!
Hello!
When a character doges or evades, it doesn't necessarily have to be because of Observation Haki to be objectively speaking; It could be because of it and not because of it. I'm sure we've seen evasive feats that were impressive despite Observation Haki. We can look at Zoro evading Kuma's pneumatic paw attack that apparently moved at great speeds, it was just his reactive prowess at work.
Please don't mistaken it as me wanting it, that's just my conclusion after scrutiny of Observation Haki over the series. If you know what your opponent is going to do, it won't be a matter of efficiency, but failure would be for a lack of effort, and I doubt all these Observation Haki users are missing with their attacks for that. It's only during defensive stances that I can remember any Observation Haki functioning.
Can go to when Marigold was watching G2 Luffy, she saw everything Luffy did, but couldn't react because he was moving too fast. The one thing she was doing in that moment was purely observing, not attacking.
The only way it makes sense why someone like Katakuri (who we know relies on Observation Haki a lot) can miss his target is if Observation Haki can't indeed be used whilst attacking.
Observation requires focusing; attacking requires focusing and commitment; if you're committed with an attack being followed through, you can't think of anything other than just that attack. There's a conflict when trying to attack + use Observation Haki at the same time, therefore, one can only be focused on.
We saw Rayleigh with relative ease and grace manoeuvring out of the way of the Elephant; the same Rayleigh we saw against the Elephant, when he clashed with Kizaru, we couldn't tell he was using Observation Haki; against the Elephant he was purely observing and against Kizaru, he was invested in that fight, I believe these 2 contrasting scenes draw us towards the conclusion I've come to personally.
Also, personally, I don't believe Haki of any kind is unreliable, I believe we just give it far too much credit than it ought to have. Many times something spectacular happens we don't understand, and there's a tendency to attribute it to Haki.
If we expect something to do things it can't do, it will unmistakably fall short. If we expect Observation Haki to function in situations that it can't, it's because of limitations and this is consistent across the Manga.
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@Count:
It literally contributed nothing other than delaying Ace's fate and reminding us Luffy had Conquerer's.
It didn't even do that, actually. If Luffy didn't act, Mr.3 would've saved Ace then. But Doflamingo saving himself from the crowd which got him absolute loyalty o Trebol and co. was pretty important.
Also, I find it unlikely VoAT isn't Haki-related, and it's extremely plot-relevant. There might be more to CoC than we know currently, too, Shanks and WB did show insane levels of it, it might find few more uses. And Haki would be quite nice if it wasn't this incredibly common. Usopp getting CoO is fitting, for example. But everyone and their grandmother having it, aside of two New World veterans we've met in the first part is really overdoing it, especially with Blackbeard's comment on Ace not being used to getting hit during their fight. And with CoO it had to lead to inconsistencies. Sloppy inclusion of Haki into the story is one of th greatest fuck ups in OP so far. Especially that some elements were likely planned for a long time.
And I don't think we really needed logia counter. Without it, it would be just a matter of not making too many of them, finding some believable natural weaknesses for each and maybe incorporating some sea stone in SHs weaponry (Usopp already used handcuffs to catch Caesar, Franky could get some sea stone parts in his fists/Franky General, Zoro and Brook could get their swords upgraded).
All hail Machvise-sama, Arlong Park Character Tournament 2016 Champion!
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It didn't even do that, actually. If Luffy didn't act, Mr.3 would've saved Ace then. But Doflamingo saving himself from the crowd which got him absolute loyalty o Trebol and co. was pretty important.
Also, I find it unlikely VoAT isn't Haki-related, and it's extremely plot-relevant. There might be more to CoC than we know currently, too, Shanks and WB did show insane levels of it, it might find few more uses. And Haki would be quite nice if it wasn't this incredibly common. Usopp getting CoO is fitting, for example. But everyone and their grandmother having it, aside of two New World veterans we've met in the first part is really overdoing it, especially with Blackbeard's comment on Ace not being used to getting hit during their fight. And with CoO it had to lead to inconsistencies. Sloppy inclusion of Haki into the story is one of th greatest fuck ups in OP so far. Especially that some elements were likely planned for a long time.
And I don't think we really needed logia counter. Without it, it would be just a matter of not making too many of them, finding some believable natural weaknesses for each and maybe incorporating some sea stone in SHs weaponry (Usopp already used handcuffs to catch Caesar, Franky could get some sea stone parts in his fists/Franky General, Zoro and Brook could get their swords upgraded).
I forgot about that too. So it was even more irrelevant there than I thought. But yes, Doflamingo's flashback was important in showing signs of his supposed divine greatness.
It could very well be related. But even if it is, it feels awfully displaced from everything except maybe as a unique form of Observation, and it is supposedly limited to birthrights. I know there can be more to Conquerer's than we know right now, but I'm so sick of using that excuse when it's probably going to be years before we ever see that finally happen. Haki being so common is definitely a problem, but the issue is also that opponents for the Monster Trio would become too easy to defeat if they didn't have Haki. So it's a Catch 22. And Oda clearly didn't have Armament Haki in mind or at least fully planned out during Blackbeard's fight with Ace since Blackbeard's oh so special ability is now almost completely redundant besides cancelling out Devil Fruit abilities if he touches his enemies, which is going to be awkward to write if that's somehow still going to be an advantage he has. Conquerer's and Observation were definitely planned far ahead though.
While this is true, it would be weird if Oda didn't have Luffy fight at least one Logia in the New World. And if so, what kinds of weaknesses can Oda make up for them aside from water? How can he justify Logias not being cheap measures to win when not around weaknesses during battles such as Marineford? Then again, Oda had no problem having Marco get arbitrarily cuffed by Onigume during Marineford.
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@Hannibal:
When a character doges or evades, it doesn't necessarily have to be because of Observation Haki to be objectively speaking; It could be because of it and not because of it.
You're missing the point, I think. What I'm saying is, Katakuri's second kick catches Luffy in mid-air despite the evasive maneuver because his observation allowed him to anticipate Luffy's move. While on the offense.
Admittedly, any situation where characters don't blurt out expository comments is open to debate - as to whether such or such move came down to observation haki or spectacular reflexes. But that's not a discussion I'm willing to engage into. If you want a trickier topic, I'd be curious to hear your take on Fujitora and how he manages to land any attack. He surely has heightened senses and battle experience, but they alone cannot explain everything. Or how Usopp was able to snipe Sugar thanks to observation haki.
Nevertheless, more than anything the very fact we're having this conversation tells me that the nature and limitations of observation haki aren't all that clear to readers.
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@Count:
I forgot about that too. So it was even more irrelevant there than I thought. But yes, Doflamingo's flashback was important in showing signs of his supposed divine greatness.
It could very well be related. But even if it is, it feels awfully displaced from everything except maybe as a unique form of Observation, and it is supposedly limited to birthrights. I know there can be more to Conquerer's than we know right now, but I'm so sick of using that excuse when it's probably going to be years before we ever see that finally happen. Haki being so common is definitely a problem, but the issue is also that opponents for the Monster Trio would become too easy to defeat if they didn't have Haki. So it's a Catch 22. And Oda clearly didn't have Armament Haki in mind or at least fully planned out during Blackbeard's fight with Ace since Blackbeard's oh so special ability is not almost completely redundant besides cancelling out Devil Fruit abilities if he touches his enemies, which is going to be awkward to write if that's somehow still going to be an advantage he has. Conquerer's and Observation were definitely planned far ahead though.
While this is true, it would be weird if Oda didn't have Luffy fight at least one Logia in the New World. And if so, what kinds of weaknesses can Oda make up for them aside from water? How can he justify Logias not being cheap measures to win when not around weaknesses during battles such as Marineford? Then again, Oda had no problem having Marco get arbitrarily cuffed by Onigume during Marineford.
Monster Trio wouldn't have to have it from the get-go. And for 20 y/o to defeat NW veterans when in OP world you usually peak much later, advantage like this would make it more believable.
Logia might have been overpowered, but two minuses don't make a plus here, it doesn't excuse writing something as sloppy as BH. It's Oda's job to make it work. And about examples, Monet was seen reacting negatively to heat which half of the SH crew can generate, for example. It should be the same for Aokiji, maybe even Caribou. Enel had rubber. Also, I can't see any problem with Marco being cuffed by Onigumo. And sea stone weapons were a thing since Loguetown, so they wouldn't look out of place. You can go for other measures too, Caribou was kept in a barrel, for example, trying to catch some like this mid-battle could work. It's just little bit of creativity.
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You're missing the point, I think. What I'm saying is, Katakuri's second kick catches Luffy in mid-air despite the evasive maneuver because his observation allowed him to anticipate Luffy's move. While on the offense.
Admittedly, any situation where characters don't blurt out expository comments is open to debate - as to whether such or such move came down to observation haki or spectacular reflexes. But that's not a discussion I'm willing to engage into. If you want a trickier topic, I'd be curious to hear your take on Fujitora and how he manages to land any attack. He surely has heightened senses and battle experience, but they alone cannot explain everything. Or how Usopp was able to snipe Sugar thanks to observation haki.
Nevertheless, more than anything the very fact we're having this conversation tells me that the nature and limitations of observation haki aren't all that clear to readers.
Oh yeah thats the best proof there is. There is no doubt in my mind that Fuji's perception of people and surroundings that was given to us was what he sees when he uses CoO. It was very similar to the visual Usopp saw when he unlocked his own Observation.
Any type of Haki can be used during offense or defense.
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@Count:
Rayleigh unlocked Camie's explosives at Sabaody Archipelago.
I wanted to get back to this earlier; to be fair, unless I remember it incorrectly to this day we're not even sure what it was Rayleigh did with that collar. In retrospect I put it down to haki, but on the spot all I could think of was "ok, that's how good this guy is." It served as a hype tool for Rayleigh, but I don't think we've seen either an explanation or a similar use of conqueror haki ever since. Looking at it now, I find it even a bit stupid that this sort of thing wasn't simply handled by Franky after everyone reunited
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I wanted to get back to this earlier; to be fair, unless I remember it incorrectly to this day we're not even sure what it was Rayleigh did with that collar. In retrospect I put it down to haki, but on the spot all I could think of was "ok, that's how good this guy is." It served as a hype tool for Rayleigh, but I don't think we've seen either an explanation or a similar use of conqueror haki ever since. Looking at it now, I find it even a bit stupid that this sort of thing wasn't simply handled by Franky after everyone reunited
It depends on the detonator inside the collar. Armaments users can harden any object they are touching. He might have hardened and suspended a part of the bomb mechanism to delay the explosion.
I never really gave it any thought until now.
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You're missing the point, I think. What I'm saying is, Katakuri's second kick catches Luffy in mid-air despite the evasive maneuver because his observation allowed him to anticipate Luffy's move. While on the offense.
Admittedly, any situation where characters don't blurt out expository comments is open to debate - as to whether such or such move came down to observation haki or spectacular reflexes. But that's not a discussion I'm willing to engage into. If you want a trickier topic, I'd be curious to hear your take on Fujitora and how he manages to land any attack. He surely has heightened senses and battle experience, but they alone cannot explain everything. Or how Usopp was able to snipe Sugar thanks to observation haki.
Nevertheless, more than anything the very fact we're having this conversation tells me that the nature and limitations of observation haki aren't all that clear to readers.
It doesn't mean his observation Haki allowed him to anticipate him, are you implying it's impossible to replicate such a feat with just pure speed?
The point Katakuri was trying to make was he's faster than Luffy.
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doing so with Observation Haki (if it could be used in such a situation) contradicts superior speed, only showcases foreknowledge. Superior speed requires 2 people attempting to achieve the same goal, and one succeeding purely due to speed.There's no example where anyone has used Observation whilst simultaneously attacking, therefore, it's highly unlikely Katakuri was using Observation Haki, he was just faster.
The way anything works previously will always work the same presently. Rules don't change just because it's Katakuri. If Observation Haki simply cannot be used whilst attacking, then not even Katakuri can defy that because it's a principle. It would be like holding on to the notion that Kairoseki won't work against Katakuri despite being a DF user; principles remain and are fundamental.
Usopp only ascertained her location with Observation Haki and prior to this, he more or less needed Viola to tell him the exact location, but Observation Haki merely had him pinpoint her location. The success of the attack was simply down to his ability as a sniper. Fujitora has actually stated he in fact just has heightened senses. Not everything he does is down to Observation Haki.
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@Hannibal:
There's no example where anyone has used Observation whilst simultaneously attacking, therefore, it's highly unlikely Katakuri was using Observation Haki, he was just faster.
There's no clear cut example, which doesn't mean Oda isn't taking it into account when drawing fighting scenes. Like Smoker vs Vergo that I already mentioned.
We're talking about a person which is hyped as being able to see the future and you're saying he's not calm enough to predict the movements of an opponent he has been trashing around for a while without any problems.
@Hannibal:
Usopp only ascertained her location with Observation Haki and prior to this, he more or less needed Viola to tell him the exact location, but Observation Haki merely had him pinpoint her location. The success of the attack was simply down to his ability as a sniper. Fujitora has actually stated he in fact just has heightened senses. Not everything he does is down to Observation Haki.
That's not exactly what Fujitora is saying on that page. He just says he's been able to notice stuff without vision. Besides, we know he uses Observation to sense other people around him.
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Who knew coating your body with magic armor would make people so pissed off in the rubber pirate comic?
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There's no clear cut example, which doesn't mean Oda isn't taking it into account when drawing fighting scenes. Like Smoker vs Vergo that I already mentioned.
We're talking about a person which is hyped as being able to see the future and you're saying he's not calm enough to predict the movements of an opponent he has been trashing around for a while without any problems.
That's not exactly what Fujitora is saying on that page. He just says he's been able to notice stuff without vision. Besides, we know he uses Observation to sense other people around him.
Not exactly, but it's a given that Observation Haki isn't needed for a blind man to manoeuvre. Everything isn't dictated by Haki. He can live a normal life and fight without it. Point being made is he uses his natural senses to make sense of his surroundings.
I'm also not saying he's not calm enough, I'm simply saying due to the principles and limitations of Observation Haki, there are things he can't do. No one can commit 100% to 2 different mental processes at once.
One thing that needs to be established is, this symbol here means.
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It unequivocally, and without doubt means surprise or shock at an action or statement. You can't be shocked by something you know is coming, therefore, why is Katakuri being shown with that pictorial device? It's because he never expected it or saw it coming.The other key question is, why has Katakuri missed any of his attacks? He's never once failed to read the future when just observing, but when fighting…
1. Why did all 7 leg stomps fail to hit Luffy?!
2. Why did his shot on Sanji fail?When we see other characters who don't possess Haki miss, we don't ask why their attacks failed to hit because we know it's a possibility. When we see character with Observation Haki miss against people who do not, why isn't it questioned? When we see the Observation master Katakuri miss, is he missing on purpose? That won't make sense. The only logical answer that makes sense of this is, unless Observation can't be used whilst attacking, it doesn't explain why Katakuri and other Observation Haki users like Mighawk failed to hit their target.
Also, Katakuri can't just see the general future, he sees the future in conjunction with people.
When he perceived that Pudding will fall on her knees, he had to ask why?
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Why did he have to ask why? because he had no idea what Sanji said or did to make Pudding fall down on her knees. It means as I said, he can only see the future in conjunction or through the person he's focused on. Katakuri wouldn't have been able to predict, say, an exploision because he can't just see the future, he'd have to see it by proxy of the person he's observing. It'd require seeing someone blow up or get singed by flames in order to deduce that. -
@Hannibal:
Not exactly, but it's a given that Observation Haki isn't needed for a blind man to manoeuvre. Everything isn't dictated by Haki. He can live a normal life and fight without it. Point being made is he uses his natural senses to make sense of his surroundings.
I'm also not saying he's not calm enough, I'm simply saying due to the principles and limitations of Observation Haki, there are things he can't do. No one can commit 100% to 2 different mental processes at once.
One thing that needs to be established is, this symbol here means.
! https://i.imgur.com/gYri2tL.png
It unequivocally, and without doubt means surprise or shock at an action or statement. You can't be shocked by something you know is coming, therefore, why is Katakuri being shown with that pictorial device? It's because he never expected it or saw it coming.The other key question is, why has Katakuri missed any of his attacks? He's never once failed to read the future when just observing, but when fighting…
**1. Why did all 7 leg stomps fail to hit Luffy?! https://i.imgur.com/vZQQTof.png
2. Why did his shot on Sanji fail?**When we see other characters who don't possess Haki miss, we don't ask why their attacks failed to hit because we know it's a possibility. When we see character with Observation Haki miss against people who do not, why isn't it questioned? When we see the Observation master Katakuri miss, is he missing on purpose? That won't make sense. The only logical answer that makes sense of this is, unless Observation can't be used whilst attacking, it doesn't explain why Katakuri and other Observation Haki users like Mighawk failed to hit their target.
Also, Katakuri can't just see the general future, he sees the future in conjunction with people.
When he perceived that Pudding will fall on her knees, he had to ask why?
! https://i.imgur.com/LsTCAcx.png Why did he have to ask why? because he had no idea what Sanji said or did to make Pudding fall down on her knees. It means as I said, he can only see the future in conjunction or through the person he's focused on. Katakuri wouldn't have been able to predict, say, an exploision because he can't just see the future, he'd have to see it by proxy of the person he's observing. It'd require seeing someone blow up or get singed by flames in order to deduce that.
He missed shooting Sanji because Sanji also used Observational Haki. It could be argued why Katakuri didn't see himself missing the shot, but I think that can be explained by Observational Haki allowing one to sense what would happen in a vacuum (that is without other Observational Haki haki users interfering).
The same can be said with him missing on attacks. Also, In his fight with Luffy, we don't even know the exact moments he's using it. I doubt he is continuously using it, because he is confident in how much stronger he is than Luffy. So he doesn't feel the need to use it with how much he is stomping on Luffy. -
http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/879/16
There, panel 3. How else do you call Katakuri's counter-attack catching an evading Luffy while just a moment before he was himself on the offensive ? And I wouldn't be surprised if close scrutiny of Luffy vs Doflamingo returned some similar examples.Altogether I do subscribe to the notion that, when used defensively, observation haki requires the user to be in a peaceful and focused state of mind - exactly like defense in a real world fight - and therefore committing to an attack reduces its efficiency. However I don't think it is as absolute as you want it to be.
And welcome aboard!
That is no different from Luffy punching Blueno while he was using Soru. No Haki involve, Katakuri was fast enough.
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
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That is no different from Luffy punching Blueno while he was using Soru. No Haki involve, Katakuri was fast enough.
Luffy could follow Blueno's speed and had cut him off because he was moving straight. Katakuri hit Luffy in the face in one fluid move, while in midair, before he could get out of his range.
If you want to simplify it, it's the same. If you go into more detail, it's a little different.
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@Count:
Haki as a power system was indeed a mistake. All we needed was Armament, colorless Armament at that, and everything could have worked out fine.
I think you need CoO if you want CoA. I feel CoO balances things out a bit otherwise, CoA plus heavy hitters like Luffy wins easily. The Haki I don't get yet is the King's haki, I don't think Oda knows how to advance that yet to be honest.
The moment Oda created Logia users, Haki have to be in the game, else Logia will be invincible. If CoA is in place to counter Logia and DF like rubber, then we need CoO so the story doesn't turn to who has the strongest CoA. It was stupid between Zoro and Pica.
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@Count:
Snipped.
I completely agree with you man. Conqueror's haki has been completely useless but at least Oda has been trying to incorporate it into the story more. I just wish he would come up with a non-combat use for such a power. A more fleshed out process to how Shanks utilized his.
I also agree with your point about Ussop taking down Trebol. The chapter you linked has Luffy attacking Trebol while Doflamingo casually strolls past them in the background. How cool would it have been if Luffy just ignored Trebol's presence and attacked DD because he knew Ussop had his back. Yeah I would have really liked to see that instead of face gag sugar.
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@Count:
While this is true, it would be weird if Oda didn't have Luffy fight at least one Logia in the New World. And if so, what kinds of weaknesses can Oda make up for them aside from water? How can he justify Logias not being cheap measures to win when not around weaknesses during battles such as Marineford? Then again, Oda had no problem having Marco get arbitrarily cuffed by Onigume during Marineford.
This is why Oda had to make Haki a common thing. It would have been difficult to make interesting fights based on the strengths and weaknesses of fruits over such a long period of time. At some point, the Straw hats would need to beat anyone irrespective of what fruit they had and that's why Haki became a common thing.
Togashi managed to keep his story interesting by not compromising like Oda but I think that's also why HxH is in Hiatus purgatory while One Piece chugs along on a consistent basis.
HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.
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Wonder if it was really necessary to make logias intangible.
However, we're stuck with Haki now, which is kinda stuck itself. If Oda starts explaining it too much and quantifying its effects then it will lose a certain mysticism. Not to mention he will have to take extra care to weigh in all those variables in each fight involving Haki users.
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I think y'all are giving way more though to haki than Oda himself did. Which is why it turned out like this. Oda just wanted to incorporate a typical ki power like many other shonen manga have and had. So he created "power to sense ki" and "ki armour". Not rocket science. Sometimes it is inconsistent. Because Oda never though much about it anyway. Conqueror's haki (and possible Observation if it is related to the Voice of All Things) is a different story though. But people have to stop giving it too much importance. It's a birthmark of people "born to rule". They can project their ki on others and if others are too weak, they can't handle it and faint. Simple. Not rocket science. The whole haki system is not great, but let's stop making it more important than Oda intends to.
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The best energy system of any manga/anime series has definitely got to be nen from Hunter X Hunter, it's so cool and well thought out and allows for tons of cool fight styles that make sense, haki pales in comparison
Member of Beelzebub is Freakin' Awesome Group
what I'm catching up on currently: Gintama, lone wolf & cub, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and lost in poem (by our very own AP member GEPPETTOSMONSTER)
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He missed shooting Sanji because Sanji also used Observational Haki. It could be argued why Katakuri didn't see himself missing the shot, but I think that can be explained by Observational Haki allowing one to sense what would happen in a vacuum (that is without other Observational Haki haki users interfering).
The same can be said with him missing on attacks. Also, In his fight with Luffy, we don't even know the exact moments he's using it. I doubt he is continuously using it, because he is confident in how much stronger he is than Luffy. So he doesn't feel the need to use it with how much he is stomping on Luffy.Observation Haki doesn't allow one to predict the success of their own attack, it only allows one to observe and therefore see what another being would do more or less without their intervention.
If we look at it with the context Observation Haki can't be used whilst attacking:
1. Sanji wasn't attacking, therefore, he could use Observation to evade; Katakuri was attacking, he couldn't. Not all of Katakuri's attacks have been successful and even when he saw the future, when he intervened, he was unable to stop their goals from not being achieved.It explains why Katakuri missed being that he can't see the outcome of his attack, therefore, he can't know how the opponent would react to his own actions because he hasn't attacked, therefore, he can't see a future where his own attack has failed or succeeded. We'd be delving into some time-paradoxical realm here. It would require Katakuri returning to the past in order to correct his failure to hit, and then at this point, it's no longer Observation Haki, but time-travelling.
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The best energy system of any manga/anime series has definitely got to be nen from Hunter X Hunter, it's so cool and well thought out and allows for tons of cool fight styles that make sense, haki pales in comparison
Of course it pales. You're comparing THE fighting system of HxH with a secondary part of OP's fighting system. It's not fair. OP's main thing is the devil fruit. It always was, always will be. It's a different concept, but it's what should be compared.
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I think y'all are giving way more though to haki than Oda himself did. Which is why it turned out like this. Oda just wanted to incorporate a typical ki power like many other shonen manga have and had. So he created "power to sense ki" and "ki armour". Not rocket science. Sometimes it is inconsistent. Because Oda never though much about it anyway. Conqueror's haki (and possible Observation if it is related to the Voice of All Things) is a different story though. But people have to stop giving it too much importance. It's a birthmark of people "born to rule". They can project their ki on others and if others are too weak, they can't handle it and faint. Simple. Not rocket science. The whole haki system is not great, but let's stop making it more important than Oda intends to.
He sure gave it a lot of thought for someone who never thought much about it.
Giving us levels of Armaments and different applications of Observation. Not to mention we've just scratched Conqueror Haki, seeing how easy Shanks was causing real damage to Moby Dick.
And who's to say there isn't yet another, greater form of Armaments?
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Monster Trio wouldn't have to have it from the get-go. And for 20 y/o to defeat NW veterans when in OP world you usually peak much later, advantage like this would make it more believable.
Logia might have been overpowered, but two minuses don't make a plus here, it doesn't excuse writing something as sloppy as BH. It's Oda's job to make it work. And about examples, Monet was seen reacting negatively to heat which half of the SH crew can generate, for example. It should be the same for Aokiji, maybe even Caribou. Enel had rubber. Also, I can't see any problem with Marco being cuffed by Onigumo. And sea stone weapons were a thing since Loguetown, so they wouldn't look out of place. You can go for other measures too, Caribou was kept in a barrel, for example, trying to catch some like this mid-battle could work. It's just little bit of creativity.
Let me elaborate my thoughts on Armament Haki then. Why should it be an offense booster? I think it would work much better if it was only limited to Logia contact and defense. No "I can cut whole mountains if I coat my swords with Haki" or or anything related to Luffy's Hawk/animal gun series.
Luffy, Zoro, and/or Sanji gradually getting the hang of Haki post-timeskip would be interesting. But I feel like that should only happen for one of them. And specifically with Armament Haki if Usopp still learns Observation Haki. Watching two or more characters learn a specific type of Haki on-panel would get repetitive.
BH? I assume that is a typo. Do you mean MH for Marineford or PH for Punk Hazard?
As true as this is, what weaknesses can we work out for Light, Lava, and technically Mochi besides water? I completeky agree this is Oda's job to make work.
I brought up Marco and Onigumo because of it being a plot device. I can forgive it since it is at Marine HQ, but bring that into other Logia-esque fights would feel very contrived. Sea stone weapons are very rare and the Straw Hats rarely ever use items that are not a part of their main skillset. And it comes across as a crutch rather than actuallly becoming the strongest pirate crew. At least in typical "might is right" logic instead of pragmatic skills. It's just not Oda's style. There is a reason why Mizu Luffy couldn't beat Crocodile, and was probably never meant too. He will only technically make exceptions for this with Usopp, who he can get away with having gags as weapons and random tools that conveniently fit the situation.
I completely agree with you man. Conqueror's haki has been completely useless but at least Oda has been trying to incorporate it into the story more. I just wish he would come up with a non-combat use for such a power. A more fleshed out process to how Shanks utilized his.
I also agree with your point about Ussop taking down Trebol. The chapter you linked has Luffy attacking Trebol while Doflamingo casually strolls past them in the background. How cool would it have been if Luffy just ignored Trebol's presence and attacked DD because he knew Ussop had his back. Yeah I would have really liked to see that instead of face gag sugar.
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This is why Oda had to make Haki a common thing. It would have been difficult to make interesting fights based on the strengths and weaknesses of fruits over such a long period of time. At some point, the Straw hats would need to beat anyone irrespective of what fruit they had and that's why Haki became a common thing.
Togashi managed to keep his story interesting by not compromising like Oda but I think that's also why HxH is in Hiatus purgatory while One Piece chugs along on a consistent basis.
You get exactly what I am saying. Especially with that Togashi example, but moreso in how Togashi is more willing to have his villains go down in ways where the hero isn't always the superior fighter with their main skills.
