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[FolhaS]

@Greg:

Public discussion? Discussion is discussion unless it's being monetized. It's literally as free as speech unless it's considered damaging.

Knowingly posting public links and images? Not okay even if it isn't monetized.

I mean when look at the nitty gritty, that is the legal stance.

Arlong Park is in the wrong, as are any other sites propagating spoiler images or links.

In fact, reposting images from the manga on Twitter isn't even something that is, legally speaking, supposed to be allowed.

But some of the license holders are realistic and understand what is and isn't damaging.

Sometimes they choose not to act because they realize that something isn't damaging.

Sometimes they cannot act due to certain boundaries.

And sometimes they're just waiting for the right time.

As I've had it explained to me by those in charge of these things, those who can be responsible in sharing their fandom will never have an issue. Discussing is a matter of respect for others. The place should be considered.

But being responsible for posting clearly damaging images and links before they are officially released? That's a no-no.

So, Lafitte, sorry to say I'm free to discuss here and anywhere else

I've even talked about it with my editors. I know you're reaching for a 'gotcha!' to try and stop me from carrying out discussion, but that's simply not the case.

You'd be surprised how people like myself who are involved with a series are also involved in fan communities.

I've been meaning to ask, also because of your videos, is there no Fair Use law in Japan, or something of the sorts?

The scanlations and spoilers are a big no-no legally speaking, no way to ignore that, but using small bits for academic purposes or public discussion is usually no big deal.
I know the forums don't count as academic and that most of the time the images used come from scanlation sites but if people used other ways to present the images they needed I don't think there would be that kind of problem since it would be isolated cases.

In your videos you'd only need a couple of panels or so for each piece of trivia you present, not even the whole page.
I see alot of video essays on youtube, about comics*, where it is perfectly normal to use a couple or two of pages to dissect and analyze, or about movies/tv shows, where they use a few minutes of footage to show examples (this pertains to actual analyzes/discussion videos, not those videos that are just a funny or cool scene taken straight from the movie).
What actually stops you from using such model?

*just leaving this out here, the yt channel is called Strip Panel Naked and it is great.
if you like comics as a medium and not just the stories they present (nothing wrong with that, btw) definitely check it out

[shadyagent]

@Greg:

Public discussion? Discussion is discussion unless it's being monetized. It's literally as free as speech unless it's considered damaging.

Knowingly posting public links and images? Not okay even if it isn't monetized.

I mean when look at the nitty gritty, that is the legal stance.

Arlong Park is in the wrong, as are any other sites propagating spoiler images or links.

In fact, reposting images from the manga on Twitter isn't even something that is, legally speaking, supposed to be allowed.

But some of the license holders are realistic and understand what is and isn't damaging.

Sometimes they choose not to act because they realize that something isn't damaging.

Sometimes they cannot act due to certain boundaries.

And sometimes they're just waiting for the right time.

As I've had it explained to me by those in charge of these things, those who can be responsible in sharing their fandom will never have an issue. Discussing is a matter of respect for others. The place should be considered.

But being responsible for posting clearly damaging images and links before they are officially released? That's a no-no.

So, Lafitte, sorry to say I'm free to discuss here and anywhere else

I've even talked about it with my editors. I know you're reaching for a 'gotcha!' to try and stop me from carrying out discussion, but that's simply not the case.

You'd be surprised how people like myself who are involved with a series are also involved in fan communities.

It is kind of funny that the one piece podcast has rogersbase as a frequent guest: He doesn't violate the shady fair use policiy in the US but he makes money with chapter reviews of content that is leaked days before the official release date: that is in my opinion not cool. He could wait until the official release date on monday but he doesn't do that. Once you were even with him on the podcast. #doublestandards

[FelRes]

That is kinda sketchy. (Can we finally abolish youtube reviewers and get them off my suggested content once and for all?)

[Md-Martin]

@shadyagent:

It is kind of funny that the one piece podcast has rogersbase as a frequent guest: He doesn't violate the shady fair use policiy in the US but he makes money with chapter reviews of content that is leaked days before the official release date: that is in my opinion not cool. He could wait until the official release date on monday but he doesn't do that. Once you were even with him on the podcast. #doublestandards

So what, you want Greg to boycott the podcast for letting someone on who doesn't follow all of the rules? I don't watch Roger's videos, but I hear him on the podcast and follow him on Twitter. He never spoils anything before the official release, pays for the official release, and -while admitting to reading scans- has never condoned or endorsed the scans. At most he's asked Stephen for clarification on a choice he made compared to the scans.

Roger doesn't profit from taking a product meant to be sold, distributing it before it's release for free while getting advertising money. He makes videos with discussions. If he were to say "check the manga out here" and link it, then it's another story. Him discussing the chapter in a video is no different than doing it here. The fact that he can make money through Youtubes ad revenue service is irrelevant.

It would be like saying all of the youtubers that made videos theorizing on Infinity War's leaked trailer months ago are hypocrites because the trailer wasn't actually out. Roger isn't getting money for talking about a chapter that isn't officially released. He's making money for being someone who enough other people enjoy enough that Youtube decided he can get money because he is drawing in advertisers to their platform. Roger can be talking about Oprah's left shoe, or a One Piece spoiler for a chapter 3 weeks from it's official release, it doesn't matter.

What matters is not funding the people stealing the manga, scanlating it, and releasing it before the official release.

I also love how Greg gets called out, who makes his own videos that he only links from his twitter and forum in AP, meanwhile there are like 5 or 6 people recently posting chapter reviews in the CHAPTER THREADS THEMSELVES days before the official release. If you wanna talk about people trying to monetize off of an existing fanbase, it's those people.

Chapters have been coming out on Thursdays/Fridays for a while now, so the gap is closing in.

[shadyagent]

@Md-Martin:

Roger doesn't profit from taking a product meant to be sold, distributing it before it's release for free while getting advertising money. He makes videos with discussions. If he were to say "check the manga out here" and link it, then it's another story. Him discussing the chapter in a video is no different than doing it here. The fact that he can make money through Youtubes ad revenue service is irrelevant.

The fact that he is making money through discussing leaked content is the same as hosting scanlations in regards to the fact that part of his income stream relies on a fully illegally leaked content. No user here makes money through discussing the chapter on this board. That is the very difference. You can't excuse the fact it is a shady business if you put ads on content that reviews and discusses leak. I wonder if the movie producer makes money of a trailer in general . LOL that comparisons feels a little bit off. A leaked movie would be a whole different story. But yeah, following that logic it also applies to other areas .

[Md-Martin]

@shadyagent:

The fact that he is making money through discussing leaked content is the same as hosting scanlations in regards to the fact that part of his income stream relies on a fully illegally leaked content.

No, it really isn't at all. Lets say tomorrow all the scanlations shut down and everyone waits for two or three extra days for the chapter. Roger THEN is fully in the right to make his videos? He'd still be proffiting from discussing the chapters, doing the same thing he does every week. But sure, the activity that would be fine for you if it was simply pushed a few days down the week is the SAME as stealing a scan of a chapter, translating it, uploading it on a website to make money.

You're also ignoring the part where Roger covers a ton of other stuff and has a fanbase from that. He didn't get advertising money for One Piece reviews. He got them for his content. For him. He is the brand, not One Piece chapters.

He doesn't rely on fully illegally leaked content, he could just as easily make the videos on mondays, as you suggested. And while I might personally agree with that, you're jumping mountains to put him in the same boat as scanlators.

Your argument is "nobody makes money here on the forums" as the validation for us discussing it in a public forum, but not him. So what?

The problem with the scanlators is that it DIRECTLY takes would-be paying customers of the official release and takes them away. Rather than pay, they can get chapters a few days earlier for free. And the uploaders and scanlators make profit from advertising. They are directly profiting from TAKING consumers.

Roger making video discussions does not take a PENNY away from the official release. He's ranted on the podcast about how he wishes the scanlations would stop because of their inaccuracies as a result of rushing to get it out. I understand what you're saying, that it's somehow morally wrong to get profit on something not technically out.

But you're literally comparing the equivalent of a guy uploading movie torrents online, to someone reviewing a movie before it officially came out. With that reviewer consistently supporting and advertising the official release.

And bringing it up in a discussion that you tried to use to someone say Greg has a double standard.

[Greg]

@shadyagent:

It is kind of funny that the one piece podcast has rogersbase as a frequent guest: He doesn't violate the shady fair use policiy in the US but he makes money with chapter reviews of content that is leaked days before the official release date: that is in my opinion not cool. He could wait until the official release date on monday but he doesn't do that. Once you were even with him on the podcast. #doublestandards

Out of respect for the OPP (which tries a helluva lot harder than literally every other fan outlet to be legit) I don't discuss particulars in detail in public.

I will say that due to circumstances my feelings of a YTer's presence went from opposed to cautious to where it currently stands at irrevocably broken.

There was a time where I felt a YTer was making a genuine attempt to go legit and almost immediately after that, my trust was broken.

Aaaand, that's all that really needs to be said.

Somebody asked about image use. Happy to answer over in my thread but as Fel said, this ain't the place for it.

[All Fiction]

I use Jaimini, anyway.

[thegab]

So what's stopping this forum from being more legit? Couldn't we get rid of the spoiler section and not start new chapter threads till after the official release?

[Chrior]

I would say we could, but like the YTers, the traffic would significantly decrease since most people read scanlations and want to discuss the chapters as soon as they read them. As you can see, chapter threads usually die by Monday (or almost, or become a random discussion between 3 or 4 persons). So it will be an emptier place and will be weird for people who are used to reading scanlations and cannot access the Viz version in their countries. The ideal world would see scanlations release on the same day as the official version, so that everyone can access the chapters at the same time and not harm the offcial product. They would of course still be illegal, but their appeal would significantly diminish if a better, official version is out earlier/simultaneously.

[Nilitch]

There aren't legal offers in every country

Also, the forum would die if anyone tried to do this. Resulting in a gigantic migration toward OroJackson. lol

[thegab]

@Nilitch:

There aren't legal offers in every country

Also, the forum would die if anyone tried to do this. Resulting in a gigantic migration toward OroJackson. lol

More just to promote the official release than to say no to bootlegging. Obviously it wouldn't stop everyone, but the integrity would be a good message.

Whether or not changing the chapter discussion to start with the officiall releases and losing the spoilers would kill the forum is debatable, and I'd listen to someone who's been around longer for their opinion on that lol

[Nilitch]

It probably wouldn't kill the forum because every active members are old members anyway–- who stay here because they like the community.
It'd damage the forum on the long term though.

Also, -> basically everything that Chrior said.

[oikgerd]

In my country, we have thousands, i mean hundred thousands to milions fan that like to discuss this manga online.

The only legal source we have is tankoubon, which 4-5 volume late.

We have no VIZ here, we can try to use VPN or something, but not everyone understand how to do that.

So, i know it's wrong, but our chapter discussion start when MS or jamini release their chapter.

I think there are many country also faces this problem.

This forums is the biggest for OP fans, so i think it's logical to start ch discussion before the release of official ch.

Why? Because when Monday comes, a lot of us already move on from the latest chapter, think about real life or something, and we as a person want to discuss ch as early as we could, that's why we have spoiler.

I know it's superrrrr wrong, but i think that's not gonna change until the bootleg have the same day release with the official one.

[Screwtape]

If I feel dirty I read manga stream translations.
I want sophistication and some accuracy, I'll go to Jaimini's.

[Nilitch]

Of course people who are supporting the author are also not downloading torrents

[Hanz]

@Laffitte:

That is why I disrespect you.

thats a very flawed logic. so because there's a portion of AP who read spoilers and scans, he should boycott it? what about the big portion who support it and read it legally? why should they get punished for it?
ok so lets say he does that. what other legit-readers-only forum should he go to? they don't have nearly as much as AP legal readers.
remember you're talking about arlong park, one of the biggest one piece communities.
try to view thing from his prospective instead of taking a short sighted jap at him. i don't know greg and i barely read a couple of his articles (which i found very insightful btw) but he's not in the wrong here and he definitely shouldn't be chastised for frequenting arlong park.

[Robby]

@thegab:

So what's stopping this forum from being more legit?

The rest of the internet.

Couldn't we get rid of the spoiler section and not start new chapter threads till after the official release?

I'm all for it. I'd love it if we could do that. If it was my site alone to manage I'd say we try it for a while. And I 100% support the official release and always encourage others to do the same.

But if we did put such a barrier in place, people would still get their spoilers and scans early, and they'd either go somewhere else entirely, or they'd come in here and blurt everything out anyway. You'd still get the same spoilers popping up on Facebook and Youtube.

Right now spoilers get contained decently because we have a specific thread for that… if we didn't, who knows? But if we tried to bottle the whole thing, including signatures and avatars and thread topics for days at a time, it'd create a mess. Especially when big things happen like "Kuma shows up at Thriller Bark!" or "Ace dies!" or "Sanji is getting married!", those kinds of things are extremely hard to contain.

We tried having "only official release day" discussion in the Viz thread for a while and it had no traffic whatsoever. Almost no one was willing to wait for the better, legal, version to talk about it at the cost of being half a week behind everyone else.

I wish we could and that it was feasible. Basically the bootleggers have to get caught some and slowed down some more or something. If they started releasing on Sundays instead of Thursday/Friday I think we could pull it off.

[Laffitte Doflamingo]

@Robby:

The funniest part is Greg sees the chapters in legit"I am an employee of the company" fashion long before the bootleggers put it out at this point.

I'd like to comment on that, since you brought it up again Robby.

Also quoting what you said previously

Greg officially works with Shueisha at this point and writes a OP column and communicates with OP editors and staff.

He doesn't need to read spoilers, he sees the full chapters well before we do.

The fact that I know:
-Greg works for ONE-PIECE.com . Specifically, Greg writes a column, making comments on ONE PIECE manga and anime, on ONE-PIECE.com.

However this fact does not prove/justify what you said.
A. It does not prove that Greg has serious interaction with ONE PIECE editors or staff who are directly related to the creation of the manga.
B. It does not justify that Greg can or does see the Chapter "long before bootleggers".

A.
First you have to be specific about "I am an employee of the company" and "communicates with OP editors and staff". (I'm sure you are aware of this, so don't be confusing, just a suggestion.)

ONE-PIECE.com and Weekly Shonen Jump (magazine) are two different entities. By "the company" you mean ONE-PIECE.com rather than Weekly Shonen Jump (magazine/editorial board).
(They even have separate twitter accounts, one being @OPcom_info, the other being @jump_henshubu.)

ONE-PIECE.com has its own staff (management, technicians, editors etc.). Greg may have his editor, the "column editor", for his column on ONE-PIECE.com. But this staff is separate/different from the staff working for the WSJ magazine. To be specific, the "column editor" is not the "manga editors" responsible for ONE PIECE manga. The current manga editor is Naito who manages a 3rd twitter account @Eiichiro_Staff.

I have not seen any evidence proving that Greg has communications with the current ONE PIECE manga editors or the staff (Oda sensei's assistants etc.) who literally work for ONE PIECE manga itself. Especially, in this context, there is no evidence proving that Greg communicates with these people talking about manga chapters before the official release.

B.
Simply working for ONE-PIECE.com (or Shueisha) does not make the worker authorized to see the ONE PIECE manga chapter before the official release.

Writing a column on ONE-PIECE.com is a totally different story from drawing the manga for Weekly Shonen Jump magazine.

Making comments on the manga is a totally different story from creating the manga itself.

There is no reason for the manga editors or staff to show Greg the chapter before the official release.

As a matter of fact, there is no need for him to see the chapter before the official release, because Greg's columns are always published a few days (no less than 2, sometimes more than 10 days) later than the latest official release. So you can not prove whether Greg writes the lecture based on the official release or the so-called early "see" (or bootleg).

To take one step further. Technically speaking, Greg should not see the Chapter "long before the bootleggers put it out". Because if he did, then his "predictions" would have been "cheating" and what he wrote could have spoiled the future contents, which could have degraded the surprises when the contents is officially released.

Without any proof, either "Greg communicates with OP editors and staff" or "Greg sees the full chapters well before we do" sounds nothing more than a brag to me.

Of course I know they are hard to prove. I'm not asking for any proof, nor am I interested. But simply stop making arguments that can't be proven. They really sound silly.

@Captain:

Some people on this forum, honestly. Greg could say hi to you and the street and you'd try to call him out for interacting with scanlations through you. Give the guy a break. Considering how piracy (heh) driven this forum is, we're lucky to have people like him and Stephen posting at all.

Greg, as a ONE PIECE fan has a lot of accomplishments, which he can be proud of. He may be a better fan, but he is simply a fan, not the author(s) of ONE PIECE. Greg has no contribution to ONE PIECE manga itself. Then don't make oneself sound as if he/she were the author(s), as if he/she were always right about things. There are plenty of instances, people walk on the street discussing, Greg walks by and asserts somebody being wrong simply because the opinion beding different than his.

Why do people call Greg out? Why nobody calls Sandman out? (Not mean to drag Sandman into this at all, just for example.) Think about it.

Don't be so harsh or appear like a tough guy. Greg should give himself a break.

Like in this case on the piracy issue, Greg could have been a little humbler and far more constructive. Quoting what Robby said below as an example, which is very honest and encouraging

@Robby:

There's a legit high quality official english version released at the same time as the Japanese release, translated by one of our forum's own, that's like 50 cents an issue. (And it not only includes OP but a bunch of other titles.) If you're in the US, Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, etc, there is very little legit reason to not support and go for that version, or at the very least buy the trades.

This forum has a worldwide community so not everyone actually can access that version, and there's just no realistic way to police scans for the three days between the bootleg release and the official, or the spoilers for a week, so we can't and don't enforce that, but we would if it was at all feasible to get everyone to read and discuss the chapters on Monday when it officially released.

If nothing else and you have to read the bootleg scan, also at least support the official release in some way?

If Greg does not discuss the chapter before the official release, or he does not take the moral high ground while judging other people, then nobody can strike him on this issue, nor does Robby have to make such and such arguments for him.

People can say I call Greg out wanting to harass him or trying to kick him out here or simply out of jealousy. That's not true but it doesn't matter.

There's no point to debate nor am I going to.

I make serous comments and put them out here for people to judge using their own wisdom.

That's all I do and this is it.

@shadyagent:

#doublestandards

That's the word!

[Robby]

@Laffitte:

Without any proof, either "Greg communicates with OP editors and staff" or "Greg sees the full chapters well before we do" sounds nothing more than a brag to me.

He's printed in actual licensed magazines and books as well as the website. He doesn't just somehow sneak snuff into a professional magazine on a weekly basis. Editors, proofreaders,factcheckers, layout people all look at that.

The discussion is a couple weeks behind the current chapter, in both print and digital forms, but its produced and written much earlier.

That's how it works with any publication. Something you see in print now has to be done a month or more ahead of a book actually appearing on stands because of how long it takes to print and ship a book. Ergo, to meet that production schedule, Greg sees the chapters early, or else the latest column would be five or six chapters behind, not just a week. The digital column is scheduled to time out with the physical edition, which is naturally scheduled to come out after the chapters it talks about.

Similarly, the chapter of One Piece we just got at the end of November, 887, was probably finished by Oda in mid October. Printing things and putting a book together takes time.

But simply stop making arguments that can't be proven. They really sound silly.

Greg has been on national television interacting with all the editors at least twice in competition, has confirmable stories and interactions, signatures, photos and videos from Jump Festa, and has a regular column going through the actual printed magazine and online thats been going for several years.

Not sure how much more proof you want? But then it seems you weren't even aware of the print edition and what that naturally entails at all.

People can say I call Greg out wanting to harass him or trying to kick him out here or simply out of jealousy. That's not true but it doesn't matter.

There's no point to debate nor am I going to.

Actually, that is 100% how you're coming across. Very harassing and very jealous.

And the fact that you are pre-emptively dismissing that idea and saying there's no debate to be had makes me think you know that already.

[Hanz]

@Laffitte:

I make serous comments and put them out here for people to judge using their own wisdom.

alright then, my wisdom says that your argument is baseless and you're just trying to create controversy for attention.
also, big props to you for conveniently ducking my post.

[thegab]

@Robby:

The rest of the internet.

I'm all for it. I'd love it if we could do that. If it was my site alone to manage I'd say we try it for a while. And I 100% support the official release and always encourage others to do the same.

But if we did put such a barrier in place, people would still get their spoilers and scans early, and they'd either go somewhere else entirely, or they'd come in here and blurt everything out anyway. You'd still get the same spoilers popping up on Facebook and Youtube.

Right now spoilers get contained decently because we have a specific thread for that… if we didn't, who knows? But if we tried to bottle the whole thing, including signatures and avatars and thread topics for days at a time, it'd create a mess. Especially when big things happen like "Kuma shows up at Thriller Bark!" or "Ace dies!" or "Sanji is getting married!", those kinds of things are extremely hard to contain.

We tried having "only official release day" discussion in the Viz thread for a while and it had no traffic whatsoever. Almost no one was willing to wait for the better, legal, version to talk about it at the cost of being half a week behind everyone else.

I wish we could and that it was feasible. Basically the bootleggers have to get caught some and slowed down some more or something. If they started releasing on Sundays instead of Thursday/Friday I think we could pull it off.

That's a shame. I really didn't know the severity of scanlation sites and how they affect the business until very recently, and I'd be all for this forum being more legit. However, I see it's not really feasible. For my own part, I'll start ignoring the spoiler section and not visit scanlation sites anymore for the early releases.

Not to be on a high horse or anything, I get some people live in countries where they have no other options. To be such a fan of the series, and out of respect for Oda, I think more people should try to be more legit. I feel people think it is a right to have free access to the manga at this point, hell I use to, and if they have no other choice, should at least plan to purchase the volumes in the future. If everyone adjusted to the official release, it would still be just a week wait for each release. So the only bothersome part is the initial transition being a few extra days of waiting.

[Schabrak]

@Laffitte:

I'm not asking for any proof, nor am I interested.

What's the fucking point of all that jabbering, if you aren't interested!?

[Robby]

@thegab:

That's a shame. I really didn't know the severity of scanlation sites and how they affect the business until very recently, and I'd be all for this forum being more legit. However, I see it's not really feasible. For my own part, I'll start ignoring the spoiler section and not visit scanlation sites anymore for the early releases.

Not to be on a high horse or anything, I get some people live in countries where they have no other options. To be such a fan of the series, and out of respect for Oda, I think more people should try to be more legit. I feel people think it is a right to have free access to the manga at this point, hell I use to, and if they have no other choice, should at least plan to purchase the volumes in the future. If everyone adjusted to the official release, it would still be just a week wait for each release. So the only bothersome part is the initial transition being a few extra days of waiting.

And that is a super awesome, totally correct philosophy to have. Good on you!

[ArmamentHero]

This post is deleted!

[Greg]

I have not seen any evidence proving that Greg has communications with the current ONE PIECE manga editors or the staff (Oda sensei's assistants etc.) who literally work for ONE PIECE manga itself.

Actually Naito-san tweeted about me a while back. From the official account while holding my article. And mentioned how he edits my columns. And the official account follows me. As much as I can discuss publicly, I offer you that.

Especially, in this context, there is no evidence proving that Greg communicates with these people talking about manga chapters before the official release.

Okay, hold up a sec. This is why the approach you're trying doesn't work.

You suggest that I shouldn't talk here because I 'know too much'.

I explain that I have a strict policy of discussing only what I am allowed to.

You suggested above that there is 'no evidence to support' my working relationship.

Now, besides what I just offered above, there's really nothing that I can say to defend myself unless I actually do what you're accusing me of doing, discussing things I shouldn't be.

Do you see my point?

You're saying:

Greg does XYZ which is why I disrespect him and we have no reason to believe him, unless he can prove it by doing XYZ.

I know this is the internet. I know you have no reason to trust me if you don't want to, but, I have nothing to gain from lying in a public place about such things.

I don't read scanlations.

[Laffitte Doflamingo]

Thanks for following up Robby.

Again, you have to be specific about things you say, simply to avoid being confusing (intentionally or unintentionally).

@Robby:

He's printed in actual licensed magazines and books as well as the website.

@Robby:

But then it seems you weren't even aware of the print edition

Which "licensed magazine" are you talking about? And which Greg's work is printed?

"Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" printed on magazine? Excuse me? Not that I know of.

Are you talking about the "GRELOG" corner printed on V Jump magazine? Surely I know that.

But "GRELOG" on V Jump is not the same thing as "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" on ONE-PIECE.com

I can say a few words about "GRELOG" because as a matter of fact, I happen to have a back issue here at this place. (the other copies may be at my other places or may simply been thrown away)

The one I have here is V Jump issue 2015-03, which has "GRELOG" volume 10 in it. The few things Greg covered in this "GRELOG" volume (which is not very long) are not covered in any of the lectures of "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" on ONE-PIECE.com

As I see it, "GRELOG" and "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" do not overlap with each other, they are two different things. So don't confuse the two.

@Robby:

The discussion is a couple weeks behind the current chapter, in both print and digital forms, but its produced and written much earlier.

I do believe that the printed "GRELOG" is produced and written much earlier.

"GRELOG" volume 10, published Jan 21st 2015, has a touch of chapter 767. That is as far as it goes about the manga. Now chapter 767, on WSJ issue 2014-51, was officially released on Nov. 17th 2014, which is 2 months ahead. Even if "GRELOG" volume 10 is finalized a month before the release of V Jump 2015-03, he still has at least a month from the official release of Ch 767 to prepare. That does not justify that he has to see Ch767 before the official release.

However, I doubt that the online "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" has to be finalized much earlier. Simply because every time his touch on the latest chapter is short. See how many ideas can emerge within a day in either the spoiler or the chapter discussion thread. As soon as Greg comes up with some idea on the latest chapter, he can write a few hundred words and get a clip from the chapter within a day, not challenging at all. And adding that to the already finished major part of the lecture doesn't take long either.

And publishing online is fast. Electronic publication has templates one can use, unlike the printed work, you don't need much help from a professional editor to get format check etc. See how many theories, analyses and videos come out within a day from the chapter leakage. Some of them are long and well organized as well.

Therefore, he doesn't need to see the latest chapter well ahead of the release to prepare the online "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course".

@Robby:

the chapter of One Piece we just got at the end of November, 887, was probably finished by Oda in mid October

As a matter of fact, quoting Greg's prediction in lecture 93 of "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" based on the Ideo and Blue Gilly title page story of Ch885:

Ideo and Blue Gilly seem to be setting the example for longlegs and longarms getting along as they can clearly be seen working together on this ship. If the two king-like figures can work out their differences, could this be the start of peace between the two tribes?
Imagine that, Luffy putting an end to a 1000-year war just by inspiring Ideo and Blue Gilly! Could these two tribes find themselves fighting for Luffy in the future?

the prediction has been proven to be wrong by chapter 887 in which Ideo et al. don't even give a shit about the conflict between the two tribes. Greg's prediction makes sense to normal people, but Oda sensei simply surprises everybody and this kind of surprises is one of the many aspects of the charm of ONE PIECE.

Had Greg seen Ch 877 in mid October, he wouldn't have made that mistaken prediction in lecture 93 of "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" published 11/24/2017, almost 40 days later. Even if he had to finalize the lecture by 10/31/2017, that was still 2 weeks later than the creation of Ch 887.

This really makes me believe that actually Greg does not see the chapter ahead of bootleg.

@Robby:

Editors, proofreaders,factcheckers, layout people all look at that.

First, V Jump and Weekly Shonen Jump are two different magazines and have separate staffs/editorial boards. Don't confuse the two.

The staff (Editors, proofreaders,fact checkers, layout people etc.) working for WSJ editorial board do see the chapter ahead of release to be able to put together the issue. However, V Jump staff do not see ONE PIECE chapters (or WSJ issues) ahead of release as ONE PIECE is not published in V Jump.

Second, Greg works as a columnist rather than a staff of the V Jump editorial board. Just like other mangakas, all they need to worry about is their own manuscript but not the secret chapter of other mangaka's work. Two manga editors responsible for two different manga series are not even supposed to communicate about their respective not-yet-released manga contents, even if they work for the same magazine; not to mention a columnist and a manga editor who work for two different magazines.

@Robby:

Greg has been on national television interacting with all the editors at least twice in competition

@Robby:

signatures

I say exactly twice in competition. I watched both episodes. The first time it was 3 fans including Greg, they lost but each of the 3 got a signed drawing of Luffy by Oda. The second time 7 fans including Greg teamed up and they won. Each of the 7 got a singed drawing by Oda. Greg got the Franky one which he uses as his Avatar.

The editors competing against the fans were the past editors (at that time), not the active editor responsible for ONE PIECE at that time. And that kind of interactions did not involve discussing the not-yet-released ONE PIECE chapters with the active editor.

Besides those two episodes, I don't know of any other occasion when Greg and any ONE PIECE editor were together on TV or radio broadcast etc.

@Robby:

photos and videos from Jump Festa

Greg is a columnist under Shueisha. Accessing the backstage during Jump Festa and taking photos and videos as a worker of Shueisha, how surprising can that be? Even meeting Oda sensei, exchanging a cigarette or taking a photo at the backstage wouldn't be any surprising.

Personal communications about already-released chapters, or about anything but ONE PIECE are understandable, not surprising.

But that doesn't mean that ONE PIECE editor/staff are supposed to talk about not-yet-released chapters with Greg. Not within Jump Festa, not outside Jump Festa, nowhere.

@Robby:

Not sure how much more proof you want?

Not much more but none of your arguments so far is a proof. Your arguments still do not justify either "Greg sees the chapter long before bootleg" or "Greg discusses the chapter with ONE PIECE manga editors/staff before the official release".

Simply posting a bunch of red herrings won't get you anywhere.

[Robby]

I think the self defined "jealous" and "harassing" is clearly showing at this point.

I was happy to inform you of things when I thought you were just ignorant to the matter and didn't know Greg's very long and public track record, or about the print media part.

That is clearly not what the actual issue is and nothing I say is going to make you happy.

[Jaime]

I think the poster will never be happy unless he or she feels right.

[Greg]

As a matter of fact, quoting Greg's prediction in lecture 93 of "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" based on the Ideo and Blue Gilly title page story of Ch885:

Ideo and Blue Gilly seem to be setting the example for longlegs and longarms getting along as they can clearly be seen working together on this ship. If the two king-like figures can work out their differences, could this be the start of peace between the two tribes?
Imagine that, Luffy putting an end to a 1000-year war just by inspiring Ideo and Blue Gilly! Could these two tribes find themselves fighting for Luffy in the future?

the prediction has been proven to be wrong by chapter 887 in which Ideo et al. don't even give a shit about the conflict between the two tribes. Greg's prediction makes sense to normal people, but Oda sensei simply surprises everybody and this kind of surprises is one of the many aspects of the charm of ONE PIECE.

Had Greg seen Ch 877 in mid October, he wouldn't have made that mistaken prediction in lecture 93 of "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" published 11/24/2017, almost 40 days later. Even if he had to finalize the lecture by 10/31/2017, that was still 2 weeks later than the creation of Ch 887.

This really makes me believe that actually Greg does not see the chapter ahead of bootleg.

What does Chapter 877 have anything to do with this? Did Lafitte mean 887? I believe I'll just assume he/she did.

So under that assumption, Lafitte is asserting that I made a mistaken prediction and if I knew the result ahead of time, I shouldn't have been mistaken?

But hold a second…

Did anybody else notice how the two kings(?) who were fighting are now peacefully waving goodbye side by side?

If anything, the prediction seems to be spot on. The feud between them seems to be over.

I never said Blue Gilly and Ideo would hang around and leave their pirate lives behind.

Lafitte, not only are you grasping at threads, they're also invisi- no make that nonexistent threads. You literally just twisted my entire prediction in an attempt to prove your point.

Furthermore, this logic, as applied by you, suggests that any time I make a prediction that's proved wrong in a matter of weeks it proves you right. Please realize that both Sugita and Naito have willingly left in errors of mine if it makes for enjoyable reading.

Now, I think I see where this is coming from. Lafitte mentions 'boasting' and 'bragging' several times which I believe is really just his/her cultural interpretation of me being frank. If he/she stopped being so jealous I think he/she'd cease to see my frank discussions about what I do and with whom I associate as boastful and instead as the rest of you see it, a guy talking to other people.

Most of all, if Lafitte thinks I'm ever going to try and fall for the, "Well let me prove that I read them early by telling you what happens!", or, "Well then I'll just show you this photo of….", he/she is mistaken. It's not public information.

Side note, I went through a similar, "Oh yeah? Well prove it!", with a young OP fan several years ago. It was regarding Oda and assistants' hidden message in the series. I was assaulted with a barrage of, "Well prove it! Show us!", back then too. I didn't feel threatened by them or the need to prove what I knew to be true so I took their keystroke lashings and accusations and waited...patiently.

Eventually those messages were used in the national broadcast of Hoko x Tate and I presented them to the fan and his friends on a silver platter and it was a huge public embarrassment.

I am also also being patient now.

[HTC]

Since MangaStream removed the mining script, how about closing this topic?

[Md-Martin]

Greg, your birth certificate won't be enough. Prove you are a human by sharing a retinal scan and fingerprint.

[Jaime]

We need your blood sample, hair sample and match your teeth with what we believe to be your dental records to make sure you match.

[Lord Monkey D.]

Don't forget the Stool sample

[ArmamentHero]

Why not ask for his soul?:ninja:

[Lord Monkey D.]

Greg sold his already to Oda :ninja:

[Count Mario]

@Naoki Kawashima:

The thing I remember most when I took over as editor was Oda telling me, ‘Die for One Piece.'

Oda has the Soru Soru no Mi.

! @Eiichiro Oda:
! > LIFE OR ONE PIECE?!

[Lord Monkey D.]

What Oda puts on your wall when you start your job.

[RomanceDawn]

lol. Ya'll silly.

[Greg]

you folks are too much.

I second HTC.

[Jaime]

@Lord:

Don't forget the Stool sample

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Stool

[Lord Monkey D.]

@Jaime:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/f/f8/Stool_Manga_Infobox.png/revision/latest?cb=20130726062414
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Stool

[Laffitte Doflamingo]

I've made my arguments, Greg and Robby have defended themselves, and other people have made their comments. That's good. I will stop on that and leave it there for whoever sees it to judge. Time to move on.

Thank ya'll for baring with me. I must say sorry for driving the thread off the topic.

Just to compensate for that, I'd like to share some constructive ideas.

What about ONE-PIECE.com (or viz.com) opens up an official forum for OP fans?

Quoting Hanz's opinion:
@Hanz:

what about the big portion who support it and read it legally? what other legit-readers-only forum should he go to? they don't have nearly as much as AP legal readers.

An official fan forum is the perfect place for legal readers to hang out. Right now there is no such option. But if such option becomes available, legal readers should be happy to go.

They can advertise the forum as a "spoiler free" community for fans. Then those who don't want spoilers will have a place.

Making the forum "spoiler free" is certainly difficult but not impossible. I see the problem Robby mentioned

they'd come in here and blurt everything out anyway.

it'd create a mess. Especially when big things happen like "Kuma shows up at Thriller Bark!" or "Ace dies!" or "Sanji is getting married!", those kinds of things are extremely hard to contain.

How about suspending the user account and blocking the IP address whenever someone releases spoiler info in any form?

The majority of the people go there because they want a "spoiler free" place. And therefore they would hate spoilers and would be happy to report any spoiler as long as there is a report portal/function. These majority people certainly will take care of such a precious place.

It won't be easy at the beginning, as Robby said:

We tried having "only official release day" discussion in the Viz thread for a while and it had no traffic whatsoever. Almost no one was willing to wait for the better, legal, version to talk about it at the cost of being half a week behind everyone else.

But I believe ONE PIECE has at least 10 more years to go. At some critical point, it may take off and in the long run, it can form a good shape.

If such an official spoiler-free forum exists, then popular people including Greg can start an initiative to call for people whoever don't want spoilers. They can advertise it with their social media tool etc. That can speed things up.

Aaaand, they can offer some perks to promote the forum, things that are exclusively available on the forum which only logged-in users can access. So then people will see the value in their user accounts and back off from trying to post spoilers.
For example, some ideas:

• They can move Oda sensei's Rakugaki corner and "Greg sensei's super ONE PIECE course" to the forum, one needs to log in to see them
• The manga editors can have interactions with fans. and they can call for SBS questions and then start a pool, the top rated questions will be collected and presented to Oda sensei and could appear in future SBS.
• Offer some games or competition. For example, a ONE PIECE knowledge competition etc. Those who win will get a signed drawing from Oda sensei.

Of course you can't stop people who read scans from visiting the official forum but at least you can stop people from posting spoilers.

It will face the problem that people read spoilers have already had discussions so therefor won't even go there. True, but, those popular people start the initiative can have their discussion exclusively within the forum. That way those people who want to discuss with the popular people, like Greg, will still go. That's a way to attract traffic.

It is hard but where there's a will there's a way.

[Greg]

It's a fine idea that works in theory but would be a nightmare to manage.

A forum means freedom and freedom introduces the prospect of randomness, the mortal enemy of official outlets.

This is why Nintendo's online titles have very limited online interaction, it avoids the chance of random problems cropping up.

It's not a poor idea by any measure and it might be possible one day but seeing as their properties are intended for adolescent readers it would require a business entity unto itself to run with proper protection for young readers.

[Hanz]

@Laffitte:

Quoting Hanz's opinion:

what about the big portion who support it and read it legally? what other legit-readers-only forum should he go to? they don't have nearly as much as AP legal readers.

if you're gonna quote me then atleast don't butcher my comment to make it fit your narrative please.

[Laffitte Doflamingo]

@Hanz:

if you're gonna quote me then atleast don't butcher my comment to make it fit your narrative please.

Sorry Hanz. I should have quoted your entire comment and highlight the point I want to discuss, maybe that's more acceptable?

I see the point Greg made. Yup, unfortunately we live in the real world. Well then, let's do our best and hope for the best.

[Shobu Yoruichi]

@HTC:

Since MangaStream removed the mining script, how about closing this topic?

You created a beast and now you want to kill it

[HTC]

@Shobu:

You created a beast and now you want to kill it

The reason for this topic is gone and the replies mostly have nothing to do with it anyway so, i sure do!

[Galaxy 9000]

@HTC:

The reason for this topic is gone and the replies mostly have nothing to do with it anyway so, i sure do!

Well… they're actually still doing it, but via an "opt-in".

!

[HTC]

@Galaxy:

Well… they're actually still doing it, but via an "opt-in".

! [qimg]https://i.imgur.com/esQub3E.png[/qimg]

I'm not getting that: maybe it's the addons i'm using that block that, dunno.

I'm OK with it if it requires one to accept it (only if one purposely accepts) but not if it's done "covertly", as in without one's knowledge, like it was when i started this topic.

EDIT

It's under the "remove adds" section. Hadn't seen it because i use ublock origin + ghostery for that.