One Piece Chapter 882: Outside of a Yonko’s expectations

[ARTEMlS]

@Count:

I mean, I wouldn't mind showing off a minor device when I'm only surrounded by my family and a mountain of unconscious/dead enemies, but maybe that's just me. Assuming it's even possible to visibly hide such a device and it's not something big that needs to be used in the open.

Well, this worked for Detective Conan all over the time.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Koliber:

Crocodile possibly never met Mr. 3, it's different than Niji fooling Mont D'Or about being his brother (even if they aren't particularly close).

Even if so, it doesn't justice why Croc doesn't request some authentification code.

[K. Kira XXIII]

They are supposed to be super human assassins, not surprised if they could mimic other people's voices.

[Count Mario]

@ARTEMlS:

Well, this worked for Detective Conan all over the time.

Has the Bat-Signal ever been compromised by having the villains wait to ambush Batman while Commissioner Gordon is waiting for him? It would be really stupid if that never happened even once throughout seventy-eight years of publication.

@ARTEMlS:

Even if so, it doesn't justice why Croc doesn't request some authentification code.

To be fair, Crocodile also sends the Unluckies to check up on each Baroque Works member.

[Wintermute]

@Count:

I mean, I wouldn't mind showing off a minor device when I'm only surrounded by my family and a mountain of unconscious/dead enemies, but maybe that's just me. Assuming it's even possible to visibly hide such a device and it's not something big that needs to be used in the open.

I don't see the problem. That little snake, that looks like Judge, he has in his hand recorded the speech pattern of his victim and translates the user's speech into it. Like in Bond.

[Count Mario]

@Wintermute:

I don't see the problem. That little snake, that looks like Judge, he has in his hand recorded the speech pattern of his victim and translates the user's speech into it. Like in Bond.

The "snake" is the Den Den Mushi itself.

And you just reminded me that they could actually do something like that if they had a Tone Dial on them.

[Wintermute]

@Count:

The "snake" is the Den Den Mushi itself.

And you just reminded me that they could actually do something like that if they had a Tone Dial on them.

Yeah, a Bond Bond Mushi (interpreting voices version).

Is this concept so strange to you? I wonder.

[Count Mario]

@Wintermute:

Yeah, a Bond Bond Mushi (interpreting voices version).

Is this concept so strange to you? I wonder.

The concept isn't strange to me. Oda introducing random plot-convenient/relevant items is nothing new. The issue is that there is nothing in the scene that indicates this Den Den Mushi is in any way special from the rest.

[Wintermute]

@Count:

The concept isn't strange to me. Oda introducing random plot-convenient/relevant items is nothing new. The issue is that there is nothing in the scene that indicates this Den Den Mushi is in any way special from the rest.

For me, knowing what the Vinsmokes can do, and the way the Den Den Mushi looks and the fact that Mont-D'or believes it, makes it believable. "Nothing in that scene", "Issue" come on…

[Count Mario]

@Wintermute:

For me, knowing what the Vinsmokes can do, and the way the Den Den Mushi looks and the fact that Mont-D'or believes it, makes it believable. "Nothing in that scene", "Issue" come on…

That's basically saying it's okay for Oda to skip out on content in the manga so that his fans can do the work of filling in the necessary gaps of logic. That's lazy shortcut writing I don't really like condoning.

I always hate it when series do random things with vague background explanations like "because magic" or "because technology".

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

Its gotta be some secret tech thing, its clear mont d'or is hearing the minister's voice. It might be expanded on in the next chapter.

Also im not sure if worn out luffy + nami losing to the enraged army full of a lot of mid tier characters is that much different than the 4 vinsmokes taking out a few ministers and mostly fodder. Not to go battledome talk too much but if reiju and nami are more or less the same, are three vinsmoke boys that much worse than the a beaten up non g4 luffy? Against the enraged army they'd be jobbed.

But I think oda played our expectations of them against us with the twist, and its cool because big mom pirates didnt pay them enough respect either which fits how they didnt stand out in the wedding. I actually really like that touch.

[Wintermute]

@Count:

That's basically saying it's okay for Oda to skip out on content in the manga so that his fans can do the work of filling in the necessary gaps of logic. That's lazy shortcut writing I don't really like condoning.

I always hate it when series do random things with vague background explanations like "because magic" or "because technology".

It's fucking logical. I wouldn't hire them if they couldn't do that!

[Count Mario]

@Wintermute:

It's fucking logical. I wouldn't hire them if they couldn't do that!

Logical in the sense of operating on capabilities we have no idea about being possible and only expect because "they have lots of advanced technology, right? Surely they should dabble in these random minor conveniences if so that are solely based on common fictional cliches!"

They're mercenaries hired for war because they make clones and have genetically enhanced physical stats. Being able to disguise their voices when communicating with enemies would be a very valuable asset, yes, but it's the clones/genetics that you hire them for.

And the fact that it's so supposedly logical and easy to expect makes it worse. Because all Oda has to do is drop one little line like "I'm using our "so-and-so" tech to fool the enemy" in a quote or thought bubble to clear up the ambiguousness. Or one close-up illustration of a unique gadget like a quirky headset or some sort of voice modifier mask. But nope, of course it's not there. Because he doesn't care. I don't really care either, but no, I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to an author like that as if it's excellent writing that deserves to be praised.

[lokilasher]

I personally don't believe there was any tech used. I think it was just a Mr. Prince moment. I'm pretty sure Oda just decided to be hand-wavy in terms of Mont Dor not recognizing a different voice.

[Wintermute]

@Count:

Logical in the sense of operating on capabilities we have no idea about being possible and only expect because "they have lots of advanced technology, right? Surely they should dabble in these random minor conveniences if so that are solely based on common fictional cliches!"

They're mercenaries hired for war because they make clones and have genetically enhanced physical stats. Being able to disguise their voices when communicating with enemies would be a very valuable asset, yes, but it's the clones/genetics that you hire them for.

And the fact that it's so supposedly logical and easy to expect makes it worse. Because all Oda has to do is drop one little line like "I'm using our "so-and-so" tech to fool the enemy" in a quote or thought bubble to clear up the ambiguousness. Or one close-up illustration of a unique gadget like a quirky headset or some sort of voice modifier mask. But nope, of course it's not there. Because he doesn't care. I don't really care either, but no, I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to an author like that as if it's excellent writing that deserves to be praised.

Hm, no. It's not that neccessary. Oda introduced new Den Den Mushis, as he likes, all the time. Old readers know that. And new readers know the capabilities of the Vinsmokes now.

We take Awakening for granted and the fact that the BM pirates security tolerates a random guy in Sanji's bed, but this is where you draw the line?

[KageKageKing]

Nanomachines, son. They respond to the user body's will to change their voices.

[Count Mario]

@lokilasher:

I personally don't believe there was any tech used. I think it was just a Mr. Prince moment. I'm pretty sure Oda just decided to be hand-wavy in terms of Mont Dor not recognizing a different voice.

My thoughts exactly.

@Wintermute:

Hm, no. It's not that neccessary. Oda introduced new Den Den Mushis, as he likes, all the time. Old readers know that. And new readers know the capabilities of the Vinsmokes now.

We take Awakening for granted and the fact that the BM pirates security tolerates a random guy in Sanji's bed, but this is where you draw the line?

Then just have Niji say that he's using a new Den Den Mushi or visually show how or why this new Den Den Mushi is special. Oda never had any problems doing that before, so why now? Old readers only know that Oda likes to introduce new Den Den Mushis. That doesn't mean they will know if a new type of Den Den Mushi is being used. That needs to be specific by Oda verbally or visually in order to make sense for readers so it is not a minor hand waving plot hole.

And the only capabilities we know the Vinsmokes have is having advanced suits, cloning technology, and advanced genetics. All of which were organically introduced into the plot with explanations and visual highlights of how special they are. So no, you can't just say the Vinsmokes can get away with the last page of this chapter without any quotes or visuals highlighting that they're doing something special that only they can do just because we're used to them doing special things in completely different areas of technological expertise and skill. You keep shifting this discussion to "Can the Vinsmokes create a voice disguising device" when I am trying to say "They probably can, but the problem is that Oda is not putting any effort into highlighting that this or anything else is being uniquely used in the scene to fool Mont-d'Or".

What do you mean "take Awakening for granted"? Crocodile mentioned it as a tease in Impel Down. Aokiji and Akainu probably used it to transform Punk Hazard. Doflamingo brought it up in full at Dressrosa. And now Katakuri is using in this arc. It's gotten almost as many teases and build-up as Haki did pre-timeskip. I don't get what you mean unless you're saying that the process of how one becomes Awakened is being kept secret, but that's all part of the suspense that we are waiting for Oda to reveal, similar to how Blackbeard can steal and use a second Devil Fruit.

People have complained about that random guy in Sanji's bed too. And I have complained about plenty of other minor moments this arc like Bege having so many things conveniently planned for the assignation when the alliance is already about to be formed despite disappearing for most of the arc, or Brook breaking Carmel's portrait when him having a special role in the plan wasn't hinted at in any of the previous planning sessions/flashbacks. So I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that this is the only spot in the arc where I draw the line, especially when I mentioned earlier how I found it weird that nobody talked about the safety or whereabouts of the Vinsmokes in-between Chapters 872 and 882.

The thread topic is about this chapter and I'm going to mainly talk about this chapter unless the discussion needs to bring up other relevant events/flaws with this arc.

[Wintermute]

The way you edited my post describes perfectly what I mean. Especially the last sentence. "But the problem is that Oda is not putting any effort into highlighting that this or anything else is being uniquely used in the scene to fool everyone with disabling the Radar Den Den Mushis of BM." See, no one wants an explanation of that, because it's obvious.

Ignore my Awakening comparison please. I just wanted to say that, in this chap, the Vinsmoke call made sense the way it went.

[Count Mario]

@Wintermute:

The way you edited my post describes perfectly what I mean. Especially the last sentence. "But the problem is that Oda is not putting any effort into highlighting that this or anything else is being uniquely used in the scene to fool everyone with disabling the Radar Den Den Mushis of BM." See, no one wants an explanation of that, because it's obvious.

Ignore my Awakening comparison please. I just wanted to say that, in this chap, the Vinsmoke call made sense the way it went.

Edited your post? What? …Oh, damnit. Sorry, I'm on my phone and typed my reply in the middle of what you typed between the quote tags because this touch screen is stupid. I hope that you don't think I would be sleazy enough to actually try changing what you said to make your argument look stupid. Your post is completely intact and is only two posts while I only added onto the first paragraph.

And where does the part "with disabling the Radar Den Den Mushis of BM" come from? I never said that. Nothing is even implied that the Vinsmokes did anything of the sort, and that wouldn't explain why had a supposedly altered voice. How does disabling anything fool Mont-d'Or? You're making the possible explanations for this chapter's ending even more unnecessarily convoluted than it already is. You disable communication devices to block communication, not alter them.

Notice how everybody that has commented on the topic in this thread can't come to a clear distinction as to whether advanced technology, trained voice changing, or straight-up flawed rushed writing is at play in the scene and only hand wave it because of how minor it is. So no, saying that "no one" would want an explanation is incorrect.

[Wintermute]

@Count:

Edited your post? What? …Oh, damnit. Sorry, I'm on my phone and typed my reply in the middle of what you typed between the quote tags because this touch screen is stupid. I hope that you don't think I would be sleazy enough to actually try changing what you said to make your argument look stupid.

Notice how everybody that has commented on the topic in this thread can't come to a clear distinction as to whether advanced technology, trained voice changing, or straight-up flawed rushed writing is at play in the scene and only hand wave it because of how minor it is. So no, saying that "no one" would want an explanation is incorrect.

No, no, I'm familiar with editing and answering posts, it's ok.

Boy you take every word serious do you? Of course "no one wants an explanation" is incorrect. I just wanted to point out that nearly "everyone" has an explanation in mind. And I dare say my explanation is the most logical one.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Count:

And where does the part "with disabling the Radar Den Den Mushis of BM" come from? I never said that. Nothing is even implied that the Vinsmokes did anything of the sort, and that wouldn't explain why had a supposedly altered voice. How does disabling anything fool Mont-d'Or? You're making the possible explanations for this chapter's ending even more unnecessarily convoluted than it already is. You disable communication devices to block communication, not alter them.

That was a comparison of how you don't question how the Fishman pirates sabotage the Radar network of BM in this chap (a potentially vast amount of devices to be taken down secretly), but question a simple transmission altered with a voice changer.

[Count Mario]

@Wintermute:

No, no, I'm familiar with editing and answering posts, it's ok.

Boy you take every word serious do you? Of course "no one wants an explanation" is incorrect. I just wanted to point out that nearly "everyone" has an explanation in mind. And I dare say my explanation is the most logical one.

I know it's obviously hyperbole, but I am still pointing out how your interpretation isn't even agreed upon by a solid majority. I am highlighting the fact we don't agree on a solid explanation is exactly what makes this ending so flawed. Nothing is clear other than Niji answering the phone and Mont-d'Or not noticing anything is wrong. It's sloppy writing. There is no point in making this so ambiguous unless you are that much of a rushing or forgetful author to not draw a small device or write one line that is just "I'm using this tech to fool the Big Mom Pirates."

Assuming the Vinsmokes can do Skill A (voice alteration) because they can do Skill B (have advanced suits/cloning tech) even though Skill A and Skill B are not related in any way besides being used through advanced technology is assumptive generalizing writing that I have never liked, find unlikely, and indicates that the author does not care. Oda liking to introduce different Den Den Mushis can't even work as an argument. when Niji is speaking through one of the Big Mom Pirates' own Den Den Mushis. He would need to be good at voice impersonations, hack the Den Den Mushi, or use an extra device to fool Mont-d'Or. All of which can't be assumed through actual evidence, only pure assumption that runs on "the Germas are high tech assassinations so they can do it just because". Additionally, Oda always shows how each Den Den Mushi is different in how they look and operate verbally/visually so there is no room for questions. You don't just stop doing that as an author if the readers are used to you introducing that, if anything, it makes them rely on those explanations more in order to understand the story.

@Wintermute:

That was a comparison of how you don't question how the Fishman pirates sabotage the Radar network of BM in this chap (a potentially vast amount of devices to be taken down secretly), but question a simple transmission altered with a voice changer.

We saw Chopper and Brook noticed the Fishmen underwater chapters ago and note that they were "doing something interesting/cool". We know the Fishmen can breathe and swim underwater. We know the Fishmen can communicate with aquatic creatures. It's easy to connect the dots of the what, how, and why. The Vinsmokes, however, are missing the how and even the what.

The Vinsmokes are too bland to deserve being argued about like this, so I will agree to disagree.

[Shobu Yoruichi]

So much filler… but the chapter is ok, because Katakuri new feat is something that makes One Piece a flawless manga, screw Big Mom already, this man is the real antagonist, thank you Oda.

Germa, die too plz.

[Wintermute]

@Count:

Solid stuff

Yes let's agree to disagree, was fun arguing with you

I don't want to argue about the Vinsmoke assholes either, but calling them bland?

Anyway, I will observe anything the Vinsmokes or Mont D'or will mention in the future about Den Den Mushis. Maybe Oda wants to introduce this kind of tech in a flashback. Feels like an option you didn't think about?

[Count Mario]

@Wintermute:

Yes let's agree to disagree, was fun arguing with you

Likewise.

I don't want to argue about the Vinsmoke assholes either, but calling them bland?

Of course they are. The three bothers have little-to-no differences between them other than Ichiji being somewhat more stoic. All of them are assholes for the sake of being assholes. To the point where their blandness is a plot point stated by how they aren't supposed to have emotions. Judge is a bland conquerer that hates weakness. I think the scene where he cried in front of Perospero was the closest he came towards getting more characterization.

But I think I dislike Reiju the most because she is supposed to both have emotions and be somebody who we are supposed to like/emphasize with, but has no clear personality or flaws/talents either besides liking to put on a fake smile to avoid trouble. All she does is praise Sanji for having emotions and criticizes her family. Nothing about her as an individual is unique or interesting, especially in explaining why she even has a conscience in the first place besides being the token kind female when she has been a trained assassin since birth. Compare her to any of the other Straw Hat role models like Shanks, Kureha, Hililuk, Tom, Bell-mere, Zeff (before he was revealed to be sexist lol), and her characterization only comes off as lacking and forgettable for only being… nice. That's the most I can describe her as. A nice person who happens to be Sanji's older sister. How boring lol.

Anyway, I will observe anything the Vinsmokes or Mont D'or will mention in the future about Den Den Mushis. Maybe Oda wants to introduce this kind of tech in a flashback. Feels like an option you didn't think about?

I doubt he would give a flashback to such a minor one-note tech lol. I could only see that happening in some sort of Vegapunk-centric flashback about his inventions, which would actually be cool. The Vinsmokes don't need to have their backstories explored anymore. And I don't see what the story loses out on by explicitly saying that voice changing tech exists when we already know Den Den Den Mushis that hide signals and project live recordings from their eyes exist.

[Koliber]

Nothing about her as an individual is unique or interesting, especially in explaining why she even has a conscience in the first place besides being the token kind female when she has been a trained assassin since birth.

This doesn't require any explanation, she simply wasn't modified and had good relation with Sora who didn't want to have her children become cold-blooded murderers.

Compare her to any of the other Straw Hat role models like Shanks, Kureha, Hililuk, Tom, Bell-mere, Zeff (before he was revealed to be sexist lol), and her characterization only comes off as lacking and forgettable for only being… nice. That's the most I can describe her as. A nice person who happens to be Sanji's older sister. How boring lol.

This is way too true, though. The same goes for Sanji's mom. The only thing the girls did was making Robin's design even less unique than it was before. Everything about Sanji's second flashback was awfully boring.

The Vinsmokes don't need to have their backstories explored anymore.

They absolutely do. What was Judge's speech to BM if not the "teaser" for a flashback? Also, I'm almost sure there existed a character on whom character of Sora was based. Judge's wife sharing his name cannot be a coincidence too (it's not her obviously, but there will be something to that).

[ArseneWenger]

@Koliber:

This doesn't require any explanation, she simply wasn't modified and had good relation with Sora who didn't want to have her children become cold-blooded murderers.

She was modified along with her brothers

[Count Mario]

@Koliber:

This doesn't require any explanation, she simply wasn't modified and had good relation with Sora who didn't want to have her children become cold-blooded murderers.

I know what you mean. But we never saw her relationship with Sora at all. And Judge even forbid any interactions between Sora and her children. We can only assume that Reiju went off to see her mother before Sanji was born and simultaneously. So she has emotions while her brothers do. Every villain does. I wanted to see what made her stand apart from them in her experiences aside from being naturally kind. But that seemed to be the whole lackluster message of the flashback. Having emotions somehow makes Sanji the kindest person ever or something.

This is way too true, though. The same goes for Sanji's mom. The only thing the girls did was making Robin's design even less unique than it was before. Everything about Sanji's second flashback was awfully boring.

I love how Sanji's mother prior to the potion drinking reveal was just a rehash of Usopp's mother lol.

They absolutely do. What was Judge's speech to BM if not the "teaser" for a flashback? Also, I'm almost sur

Oh, that. The whole 300 years of desires and 66 days of hope things. We do still need to learn why the hero Sora and Sanji's mother share the same name. But I think this is still background info that doesn't necessarily need a full flashback. Maybe we could get a last minute flashback like the Noland and Calgara one when it's time to face down Big Mom? I don't know, there doesn't seem to be much of a point when the Vinsmokes are still scumbags and Whole Cake Island's shenanigans are so distant from the Vinsmokes.

@ArseneWenger:

She was modified along with her brothers

But she didn't have the additive element that took away emotions like her brothers got. They got that because Judge thought having no emotions would make them better killers, not because it was needed for the gene altering process.

[Koliber]

@ArseneWenger:

She was modified along with her brothers

Okay, I didn't clarify. She was modified but in different way. The only thing she's confirmed to have as a result of them aside of enhanced body was inability to resist Judge's will. SHe clearly contrasted herself with the boys.

[Count Mario]

@Koliber:

Okay, I didn't clarify. She was modified but in different way. The only thing she's confirmed to have as a result of them aside of enhanced body was inability to resist Judge's will. SHe clearly contrasted herself with the boys.

That does cause me to ask what exactly made Judge want to alter the process even more for his sons compared to Reiju besides general OP villain/biological parent scumminess. It would have actually been interesting to explore if a past situation with Reiju's emotions somehow "inhibiting" her convinced Judge to forego with those traits for his next group of heirs.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

Luffy is so unlucky. People say katakuri is great but let's see him in a rainy day

All these water weakness enemies( cracker, crocodile, katakuri) and no rain. You can never count on weather.

[Schabrak]

@uniaka:

Luffy is so unlucky. People say katakuri is great but let's see him in a rainy day

All these water weakness enemies( cracker, crocodile, katakuri) and no rain. You can never count on weather.

You know it's gonna snow, powdered sugar, making all the sweets even tastier.

[ARTEMlS]

@Count:

That does cause me to ask what exactly made Judge want to alter the process even more for his sons compared to Reiju besides general OP villain/biological parent scumminess. It would have actually been interesting to explore if a past situation with Reiju's emotions somehow "inhibiting" her convinced Judge to forego with those traits for his next group of heirs.

Well, what's better to have for Judge? Some stronger-than-you murdering machines who could overthrow you and usurp the throne every second they feel like it or some stronger-than-you murdering machines who are your complete bitches?

But yeah, an additional scene would have been nice.

[Screwtape]

This was a filler chapter with a bad fight being dragged out.

And I told yall. Katakuri not having the assassins waste the smokes early is coming back to bite him.

Team meme has no steam.

[No swords style best style]

Pretty enjoyable chapter. I thought Katakuri's line about people dying against their will felt a little dry and could have be made better by maybe a visual of him rolling his eyes or something, but other than that he was great. Brulee hyping him up by taking about who he's never laid down was hilariously ridiculous to me. I mean, you could bring up his bounty, his Haki/Fruit power, his accomplishments/battles in the New World, but you boast about his standing record? XD That's like Nami or Usopp trying to hype up Luffy by saying something like "This is our captain, Straw Hat Luffy! He's fought more battles than we can count, but, no matter how badly he's outnumbered or how strong his opponents are, his sandals have never been broken! They haven't even been worn out! Since his start in the East Blue, Luffy's sandals have proved indestructible!"

…

I mean, they have.

[Kaido King of the Beasts]

@No:

Pretty enjoyable chapter. I thought Katakuri's line about people dying against their will felt a little dry and could have be made better by maybe a visual of him rolling his eyes or something, but other than that he was great. Brulee hyping him up by taking about who he's never laid down was hilariously ridiculous to me. I mean, you could bring up his bounty, his Haki/Fruit power, his accomplishments/battles in the New World, but you boast about his standing record? XD That's like Nami or Usopp trying to hype up Luffy by saying something like "This is our captain, Straw Hat Luffy! He's fought more battles than we can count, but, no matter how badly he's outnumbered or how strong his opponents are, his sandals have never been broken! They haven't even been worn out! Since his start in the East Blue, Luffy's sandals have proved indestructible!"

…

I mean, they have.

Hey, Whitebeard got famous for standing in death. The possibility of Brulee attempting to use Whitebeard parallels here would be pretty funny.

[Count Mario]

@Kaido:

Hey, Whitebeard got famous for standing in death. The possibility of Brulee attempting to use Whitebeard parallels here would be pretty funny.

That is exactly what I was thinking. It's the third "my back is unscathed" awesomeness line after Zoro losing to Mihawk and Whitebeard's death. Although I feel like it was being used for both hype and humor.

[Yami Bakura]

I don't understand how people can think that it would be good for Luffy to lose against Katakuri here. Think about it, many fans were outraged when Luffy beat Doffy because they felt he was too powerful a villain to be beaten in a fair fight. But Doffy had to fall, because he was the stepping stone needed to move on from Shichibukai to the threat level above that, which is people in a yonkou's crew. If Luffy either loses to Katakuri here, or runs away from him successfully, it means entering Wano with two Kaidou yonkou commanders waiting for him. Keeping in mind how One Piece typically likes to try to top itself, I can't see the Kaidou calamities being weaker then Katakuri, I expect both of them to be equal to him or stronger. So to me personally, it feels like we have a bitter pill to swallow again. Either Luffy beats Katakuri, someone he clearly shouldn't be able to defeat, or Luffy defeats one of the Calamities that will be equal or stronger then Katakuri, making for a even more unrealistic victory if Luffy failed to beat Katakuri previously. Either way, it feels like Luffy is going to unrealistically cheese a Yonkou commander, and all we get to do is guess which one it will be.

[Shobu Yoruichi]

@Yami:

I don't understand how people can think that it would be good for Luffy to lose against Katakuri here. Think about it, many fans were outraged when Luffy beat Doffy because they felt he was too powerful a villain to be beaten in a fair fight. But Doffy had to fall, because he was the stepping stone needed to move on from Shichibukai to the threat level above that, which is people in a yonkou's crew. If Luffy either loses to Katakuri here, or runs away from him successfully, it means entering Wano with two Kaidou yonkou commanders waiting for him. Keeping in mind how One Piece typically likes to try to top itself, I can't see the Kaidou calamities being weaker then Katakuri, I expect both of them to be equal to him or stronger. So to me personally, it feels like we have a bitter pill to swallow again. Either Luffy beats Katakuri, someone he clearly shouldn't be able to defeat, or Luffy defeats one of the Calamities that will be equal or stronger then Katakuri, making for a even more unrealistic victory if Luffy failed to beat Katakuri previously. Either way, it feels like Luffy is going to unrealistically cheese a Yonkou commander, and all we get to do is guess which one it will be.

I… like your nick.

Luffy is gonna lose because Katakuri is a man that shares qualities like him, the most powerful one is that he has never get laid in his life.

[Count Mario]

@Yami:

I don't understand how people can think that it would be good for Luffy to lose against Katakuri here. Think about it, many fans were outraged when Luffy beat Doffy because they felt he was too powerful a villain to be beaten in a fair fight. But Doffy had to fall, because he was the stepping stone needed to move on from Shichibukai to the threat level above that, which is people in a yonkou's crew. If Luffy either loses to Katakuri here, or runs away from him successfully, it means entering Wano with two Kaidou yonkou commanders waiting for him. Keeping in mind how One Piece typically likes to try to top itself, I can't see the Kaidou calamities being weaker then Katakuri, I expect both of them to be equal to him or stronger. So to me personally, it feels like we have a bitter pill to swallow again. Either Luffy beats Katakuri, someone he clearly shouldn't be able to defeat, or Luffy defeats one of the Calamities that will be equal or stronger then Katakuri, making for a even more unrealistic victory if Luffy failed to beat Katakuri previously. Either way, it feels like Luffy is going to unrealistically cheese a Yonkou commander, and all we get to do is guess which one it will be.

It's not that I think Luffy will lose. I think the battle will end with a stalemate and/or interruption after Luffy unleashes a new technique or power-up that makes Katakuri fall on his back for the first time in his life.

[Razh]

@Yami:

I don't understand how people can think that it would be good for Luffy to lose against Katakuri here. Think about it, many fans were outraged when Luffy beat Doffy because they felt he was too powerful a villain to be beaten in a fair fight. But Doffy had to fall, because he was the stepping stone needed to move on from Shichibukai to the threat level above that, which is people in a yonkou's crew. If Luffy either loses to Katakuri here, or runs away from him successfully, it means entering Wano with two Kaidou yonkou commanders waiting for him. Keeping in mind how One Piece typically likes to try to top itself, I can't see the Kaidou calamities being weaker then Katakuri, I expect both of them to be equal to him or stronger. So to me personally, it feels like we have a bitter pill to swallow again. Either Luffy beats Katakuri, someone he clearly shouldn't be able to defeat, or Luffy defeats one of the Calamities that will be equal or stronger then Katakuri, making for a even more unrealistic victory if Luffy failed to beat Katakuri previously. Either way, it feels like Luffy is going to unrealistically cheese a Yonkou commander, and all we get to do is guess which one it will be.

Do you really expect Jack to stay on the bottom of the sea for the rest of the series?

Or are you suggesting Drake will side against Kaido in the end? Since he could be one of Calamities and possibly a spy.

[blackout]

@Razh:

Do you really expect Jack to stay on the bottom of the sea for the rest of the series?

Or are you suggesting Drake will side against Kaido in the end? Since he could be one of Calamities and possibly a spy.

I don't think Drake is one of the calamities. Oda has seemingly based Kaido's crew around playing cards. Ginrummy/Sheepshead are different types of card games. And the hierarchy in the crew seems to be based on card rankings. Drake's first name is Diez (10 in Spanish), so he occupies the highest rank below the calamities. We've already been introduced to Jack, which would mean the other two calamities are referred to as 'Queen' and 'King'. With Kaido being the Ace. In the end I do see Drake defecting once he see's the alliance strawhat has built up against Kaido.

[Sads]

@Screwtape:

This was a filler chapter with a bad fight being dragged out.

And I told yall. Katakuri not having the assassins waste the smokes early is coming back to bite him.

Team meme has no steam.

That was Perespero's doing. Katakuri told him too stop monologing and pull the damn trigger while he was busy with Luffy and the human lickatongue decided instead to give a 2 minute speech as opposed to his intended 10 minutes. Katakuri has yet to mess up in this arc.

Not counting for the Strawhats luck and tenacity of course. He has no control over those.

[Kaizoku_Ou]

@Bigivel:

Well, how can Big Mom stand on a cloud homie that is literallly just Gas? That's what Ithink the … Oh, there is nothing more than gas.

@Count:

Cloud powers can often be inexplicably tangible because of how their fluffiness is almost synonymous with pillows
and mattresses. And Oda is a huge fan of Dragon Ball, the series with a cloud riding protagonist. Water typically isn't depicted as a solid substance in fiction that can be walked on unless its frozen or the user's abilities completely revolve around manipulating liquids. Although it could be possible that it can work like how only Big Mom can ride on Zeus. But a big surprise reveal was made earlier about Big Mom still chasing the heroes on sea by walking on candy, so it's weird to make that redundant by creating supposedly solid ocean Homies.

I'd like to also add that there are solid and liquid clouds too, found in sky islands.

[K. Kira XXIII]

I thought that Linlin just went to a sky island, and liked that she could stand on clouds, and gave it life.

[Count Mario]

@K.:

I thought that Linlin just went to a sky island, and liked that she could stand on clouds, and gave it life.

Then why aren't there Skypieans in Totland?

I assume that she gave life to some fog.

[BellisarioFaith]

Okay, chapter comparisons!

• Katakuri's words about death in the official VIZ translation: "Nobody decides to die because they want to. Most death is unexpected and unwanted."
• In the Mangastream version, Brûlée states that Katakuri has never once "fallen", in addition to saying he's undefeated, which seems rather confusing because that's basically saying the same thing. However, Jaimini's Box and VIZ make it clear that she's actually saying that his back has never once touched the ground in his life.
• The three descriptions that Brûlée gives about Katakuri are also different in each version. She calls him "gallant, calm-headed, and powerful" in MS, "dignified, calm, and strong" in JB, and "proud, cold, and powerful" in VIZ.
• MS calls Katakuri's attack "Mochi Pounding", with a TN stating that the kanji reads "Mochi Thrust". JB and VIZ both simply use "Mochi Thrust" as the name.
• His words after introducing his spear are a little different in each version, though MS and VIZ are the most similar to each other; in MS, he says "Tell me which parts of your body you don't need anymore. I'll tear them off." and VIZ is "Tell me the least important parts in order, and I will gouge them off of you!" JB goes with "Actually, I'll take your body parts in order! I'll start by gouging your eyes out!"
• Tamago says in JB version "My condolences", where he says "I feel your pain" in MS and VIZ; also, in MS, he calls Pedro a "mentor" to Pekoms, but a "big brother" (aniki) in JB and "frère in spirit" in VIZ ("frère" is, of course, French for "brother").
• The official translation doesn't do the random French words at the end of sentences that the original Japanese does (instead usually replacing one of the words in the sentence with a French word instead of English), but in one of Tamago's lines, he instead says "Perhaps we have been overcooking–er, overlooking this Straw Hat Luffy's potential!"
• Mont D'or then inexplicably replies to this in the MS version with "Yeah right. Pirates are no big deal" despite, y'know, being part of a pirate crew. JB and VIZ have a more accurate translation about how Luffy is not on their level.
• The scanlations have Mont D'or saying about Germa "They should curse their stars for having run afoul of us!" (MS) or "Their luck ended the moment they started targeting us!" (JB), painting Germa as the aggressors. The official translation, however, has him say "Sucks for you that you caught our eye, Germa!", instead making the BGM the aggressors.

[Count Mario]

Faith, is there any clarification on whether the tidal wave was created by Big Mom or Perospero?

[RomanceDawn]

@Count:

Then why aren't there Skypieans in Totland?

I assume that she gave life to some fog.

There are more sky islands than just Skypiea, some with inhabitants that we know for sure don't have wings.Skypieans seem like the rarest race of them all when I think about it but maybe there is a winged person on totland somewhere.

[sgamer82]

Isn't it stated Big Mom, and Big Mom alone, can ride Zeus because he's a homie made directly from her soul?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[BellisarioFaith]

@Count:

Faith, is there any clarification on whether the tidal wave was created by Big Mom or Perospero?

Seems like Perospero. "But my candy monster made a tidal wave that swallowed them up!"

[K. Kira XXIII]

@Count:

Then why aren't there Skypieans in Totland?

I assume that she gave life to some fog.

We barely saw a couple of islands from the entire Totland territory. Or maybe they were one of the ones that said no to Big Mom and got pummeled. Maybe in one of her books we saw only a couple of pages. Or she went to an island that did not have anyone there, like the ruins Urouge was resting on.