Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

Seafarer33

So i don't quite know what to take away from these look what your faults made me do leaving posts

Personally I don't visit the spoilers thread anymore ever since Mangaplus became a thing, so I wouldn't know how bad it is over there. But, seen from this little corner of the forum, both the leaving posts and anathema on criticism seem a little extreme.
Then again I guess chapter discussion threads are comparatively quieter since most posters have had 3-4 days to vent by the time official release hits the shores ? Maybe I'd see it differently if it was a weekly 20-30 pages of the same arguments as opposed to 5-7, but yeah, I wouldn't say current chapter threads are overwhelmed by negativity. Readers here do voice griefs and most of the time criticism is deserved and valid, but they also point out relevant details, great art or winks to past chapters that may have gone unnoticed, all in a relatively balanced mix. Which doesn't feel anywhere near toxic, so I woulnd't lose sleep over any slammed doors.

Ghidorah Guy

Some really need to learn how to deal when it comes to people having opinions that differ from their own.

Zar

The spoiler thread is definitely more ranty. A good way to shut out the more critical voices is to not visit that part of the forum.

I'm curious if the spoiler thread was closed, would the more extreme opinions move here or would they fizzle out as people have to wait for the full properly translated chapter.

Zik

@Daz:

There seems to be two things going on here – you both complain that “fans feel they're well versed or even experts on storytelling”, i.e. of fans making critical assessment of the effectiveness of the storytelling, and also of the very idea of speculating on the reason for storytelling choices.

Why is either of those things bad?

I'm not sure who else you think you're talking about since you say "both" but I've already answered this question and it has somehow alluded you.

Saying I don't like this or I don't like that cuz Oda is clearly rushing or Oda doesn't like these characters or Oda doesn't care about this plot is tantamount to bullshit. There's nothing critical about that. LOL if you seriously think that's what you're doing.

But again me pointing that out can't stop you and clearly won't. Believe what you want.

As far as my posts, I'll just assume you don't frequent the spoiler threads which this thread just ends up an extension of.

The B-Mack

People complaining about people complaining about people complaining can be annoying too.

Zik

@The:

People complaining about people complaining about people complaining can be annoying too.

Get in line I guess.

Zar

@The:

People complaining about people complaining about people complaining can be annoying too.

I'd like to file a complaint against all of these people complaining about people complaining about people complaining!

Deicide

@BragMan27:

Hey, you don't like it, then you don't like it. I just find it bizarre that the fate of some side villains can trump the accomplishments of the main character. I understand criticism is important. But you can't blame other users who are disappointed that they can't be involved in some communal joy every once in awhile

You complaining about criticism in a discussion forum. This is exactly the right place to publicize criticism.

BragMan27

@Deicide:

You complaining about criticism in a discussion forum. This is exactly the right place to publicize criticism.

I'm not complaining about criticism. It's a general atmosphere. Some posters said they thought about leaving due to this forum ruining their experience. Then some people responded that criticism is important. My post was an observation that, to me, it feels like more posts are about criticisms than praise.

Yes criticism is valid and should be a part of discussion. But balance is nice. Something momentous happend for Luffy this chapter and yet the majority of discussion is about Jack.

You can say you don't care because Luffy has already clashed evenly with Kaido so the sky splitting is boring. Well this is only the 3rd time it's happened in the series. To put it in perspective, this chapter has Jack's fifth lose.

My point is that it's understandable if some people don't want to view negative or critical posts all the time. And they are free to leave this forum if they don't want to read it. But instead of telling people to leave it might be nice to try and have a bit of a balance. Maybe remind people that you also enjoy the series and not only use this space to criticize.

We're on a journey to Laughtale and the story of Joy Boy. It doesn't hurt to try to be happy sometimes.

DarthAsthma

All I'm going to say is people that think other people engaging in criticism aren't happy or are miserable are just way off.
In fact personally and I'm def not alone in that, there are people that enjoy series more by critically thinking about them. Why they enjoyed certain things more than others, why things haven't been hitting as well just generally really digesting what you're reading. And voicing that gives some people that right contrast they need to appreciate what they're reading. There is just frankly people that don't get much mental stimulation by just purely praising something. To some people that can feel very empty.
While I get that maybe people have so many other stresses in life you just want your one hobby space to be super happy and everything but there is nothing really to do but find a place yourself where it can be that. I just don't think it's going to be very productive trying to make people type stuff that you'd rather read.
Maybe you can do that by making a thread for it that is more about being joyful or what not. But general discussion is general discussion.

Dragon D. Luffy

Tbh I have seen AP being referred in other forums as "that place where nobody criticizes OP and everybody is an Oda apologist"

There are many forums that are A LOT more critical of OP than AP, actually.

This is not a statement on whether AP is too critical or not, though. It's a wide range and I think each of us has a different opinion on what the healthy level of criticism is.

Syphin

AP is a forum with some of the most sensible people discussing the content.

It's good to have opinions, especially differing ones. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't mean they reject your opinion. The key thing is to be respectful of others.

Even if I recognise the flaws of the Wano Arc, I still love it. It is one of my favourite One Piece arcs. The way Oda has weaved in Japanese Folklore and Mythology into the Wano Arc leaves me breathless. I love researching into the stories/folklore certain Wano designs/events/stories are based on. From the obvious Momotaro folklore, to the Tsuru no Ongaeshi story (Tsuru), to the story of Benkei (Onimaru/Gyukimaru), to the Yamata no Orochi story, to the countless Yokai Mythology references that have stories of their own. The Wano Arc is filled with so much love, creativity, intrigue and excitement. Sure certain things haven't panned out as the readers wished but that is the nature of a weekly manga. You take the bad with the good. If Oda had more time, I'm sure the pacing and structure would be tighter.

puffing.cinema

I wonder if people would react more to the Color of Supreme King Sky Split if it were a fully developed doublespread

(I miss those)

The B-Mack

Guess everybody moved on to trashing the next chapter :ninja:

Seafarer33

No, no, not everybody. Those of us that don't visit the spoilers thread are still available until Sunday to criticize complaints about complainy critics or just trash the current chapter.

Syphin

Yeah, I don't view the spoiler thread so this thread is where I present my chapter thoughts until the new chapter thread is out.

With the upcoming Raizou VS Fukurokuju conclusion, I hope Oda at least shows some of the battle and makes it mildly interesting. Because as things stand, when I think ninja and manga/anime, One Piece will be at the bottom of that list. Even the Samurai were handled poorly - thank goodness for Zoro and Oden at least. But Wano needed more cooler Samurai. Ninja and Samurai are illustrated much more memorably in other manga/anime. Hell, at this point, I would take Curry Ninja over what we have in One Piece. Goninja!

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The handling of the Ninja, Mink, SMILE users and to a lesser extent the Samurai did suffer from the Wano arc being too bloated with characters.

Seafarer33

Now you've gone and made me dig Double Curry Ninja :ninja:. To be honest I never expected much from Wano's ninjas beyond comical relief and, on this front at least, they did deliver. From Shinobu's Kickin-the-nuts arts to Raizo's introduction to Fukuro's ears, I've had quite a laugh with them. You nevertheless have a point, in that besides comedy and maybe Raizo's scroll, nothing ninja-related left a mark as far as I am concerned.

But yes, Raizo vs Fukurokuju is the likeliest candidate for next concluded fight. I don't know if and how Orochi will be involved, though. Part of me wants to get rid of him, but at the same time he has played the most active part in Wano's destruction while remaining a slippery bastard all along, which deserves a grand exit. So I wouldn't mind if he keeps eluding and does something really aweful and threatening at the very end, when every major player - Kaido, Big Mom and Luffy included - is down for the count.

wolfwood

@puffing.cinema:

I wonder if people would react more to the Color of Supreme King Sky Split if it were a fully developed doublespread

(I miss those)

I thought it was a nice visual, it's just a case of diminished returns for me, i've already had the emotional response i'm being expected to feel here.

Syphin

The lack of the Hebi Hebi no Mi, Model: Yamata no Orochi being utilised by Oda is so suspicious to me. Orochi is currently using it more passively than actively.

Its a Mythical Zoan! Surely we will see some more of its capabilities before Orochi is dealt with. Unless, Oda plans to save this Devil Fruit for a later arc, in which case, Orochi's demise may be after Kaido is dealt with and he witnesses the revival of the Kozuki clan. Another party may be introduced at the end of the arc as they steal the Yamata no Orochi away from Orochi - Blackbeard Pirates or one of their affiliates. I still hope the Yamata no Orochi folklore will play out in the Wano Arc where we get a Giant Serpent beast as a enemy.

Hiyori's story arc is definitely tied to Orochi's.

Sirxxx

@Seafarer33:

One way or the other this is the One Piece we will be getting for however much is left of those five years, gotta live with it.

This guy gets it. The old One Piece is gone and never coming back. If you can learn to enjoy it for what it is now–and not hold it against its former self so hard--it really helps the enjoyment of what's here.

Personally, I prefer Oda finish his story than die on it. Seeing our boy Luffy being able to force a splitting of the heavens was awesome. To me.

puffing.cinema

After watching Oda swepting the Mink out of scene, I'm not holding my breath for anything grandiouse for the Ninja or Samurai concept. I feel like the Samurai peaked with Hyogoro's flame attack and the Ninja might get something else from Raizo but it shall be minor and Narutesque.

I still have some hope that Hawkins, Killer and Apoo will get to flex a bit and show off but that's all I'm daring to gamble rn

Syphin

Considering Hawkins and Apoo are ongoing characters and will be relevant to future arcs of One Piece, I don't see them getting conventional battles and "defeats". At the very least they won't be treated as just Beast Pirate "affiliates" to only defeat. We haven't seen Apoo and Drake since chapter 1007. Apoo hasn't been shown since before Chopper cured everyone from the Ice Oni virus so it is going to be interesting to see how he rationalises his situation against the promise Queen made about killing him if he lost the Ice Oni antibodies. Apoo actually has no genuine reason to stick with the Beast Pirates beyond the fear of opposing a Yonko crew. Jack has already been defeated and once King and Queen are taken down or least look to be taken down, Apoo will realise where his best chance of survival is and it won't be fighting for the Beast Pirates.

Same thing with Hawkins, fate will guide him toward a path separate from the Beast Pirates. If he were to read Luffy's fate now that Luffy isn't surrounded by two Kitetsu blades, what would the probabilities reflect? I suspect the cursed swords Luffy and Zoro were carrying when Hawkins's determined the probabilities of their fates affected it.

Both Apoo and Hawkins are only concerned with survival. They have no loyalty whatsoever to Kaido or to the Beast Pirates. They will lose but their defeats won't follow how usual arc antagonist defeats are handled. More so than a battle, we will get further clarity on the person Hawkins was reading into with his cards who had a one percent chance of surviving the day - was he talking about Drake? Also I wouldn't be surprised if after Apoo seen Chopper release his Ice Oni antidote, he opted to focus on survival and escaping instead of fighting. Apoo and Hawkins are already traitors, so it wouldn't be out of character for them to turn their backs on the Beast Pirates after they come to terms with reality and what awaits the Beast Pirates now that Luffy is fighting Kaido as an equal.

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The underlying theme behind the deconstruction of the Beast Pirates is the realignment of their forces allegiance. Apoo and Hawkins have been set-up to not be characters that fall alongside the Beast Pirates.

Seafarer33

Apoo turning coat again I could see. Not sure if Drake is going to stand with it, but at the end of the day he is still a Marine and has himself been a double agent all along. So instead of finishing the job with vengeful murderous intent he could focus on different matters and turn a blind eye on him retreating wherever.

Hawkins, on the other hand - albeit very likely to act the pragmatic and revise his opinion according to whatever probability his cards show - blackmailed Killer with his captain's life on top of betraying their alliance. I don't think these two are the forgiving kind…