Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

Deicide

Merch is a very poor meter to see who would join. We had it work only once, with the Jinbe coin, and never before or again. Plus, it only worked on the Jinbe coin because the coins for the Straw Hats were gold-colored, and Jinbe was the only non-SH that got a golden coin. It clearly put Jinbe in the same level as the Straw Hats. Sometimes, I think it was a gambit of the company, much like the Yamato towel probably was, and not the result of insider knowledge.

Popular characters seel merch. Merch companies will do anything to boots sales. Shueisha and Toei will too. Yamato's debut in the anime came with a ton of merch, enough to make anyone think Yamato was sure going to be a crewmate. Yamato also got an anniversary post in the official Instagram, something only Straw Hats had gotten so far. But it came right during the full season of Yamato hype.

So, don't trust merch.

Shiebs

I was so convinced that Yamato was going to join that I no longer have any opinion on who will or won’t join

electricmastro

@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I was so convinced that Yamato was going to join that I no longer have any opinion on who will or won’t join

For as much as I was interested in Yamato joining, that said, I wasn't entirely convinced since time wasn't being taken to emphasize on Yamato's greater purpose with Luffy or her ultimate dream.

Actually, at this point, Yamato does seem like someone who'd pick Oden and his path over Luffy and his path any day of the week.

As if to say, that Yamato basically sees Luffy with less relevance since Luffy isn't Oden, and that Oden has more relevance than Luffy does as far as Yamato is concerned. Maybe Yamato doesn't even see Luffy's journey as that much of a priority to get involved with either.

Hakase

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Merch is a very poor meter to see who would join. We had it work only once, with the Jinbe coin, and never before or again. Plus, it only worked on the Jinbe coin because the coins for the Straw Hats were gold-colored, and Jinbe was the only non-SH that got a golden coin. It clearly put Jinbe in the same level as the Straw Hats. Sometimes, I think it was a gambit of the company, much like the Yamato towel probably was, and not the result of insider knowledge.

Popular characters seel merch. Merch companies will do anything to boots sales. Shueisha and Toei will too. Yamato's debut in the anime came with a ton of merch, enough to make anyone think Yamato was sure going to be a crewmate. Yamato also got an anniversary post in the official Instagram, something only Straw Hats had gotten so far. But it came right during the full season of Yamato hype.

So, don't trust merch.

Correlation isn't causation so to say it only worked once is also false.

Deicide

@Shiebs If it's a new character, it hasn't appeared yet to be discussed.

Maybe the question is what the crew needs. I think the role/profession is the key, but the need for that position hasn't been explored in-story yet. It should become evident now that the crew is near completion, so the missing element gets some focus.

It could be explored while we travel to the next island. So watch out for the next chapters.

@Hakase said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Correlation isn't causation so to say it only worked once is also false.

WTF? Then point out a second time it worked out

Hakase

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

WTF? Then point out a second time it worked out

My point is that just because Jinbe joined after coin merch doesn't actually mean that "it worked" as you call it. It's a stretch to assume causation when you have a multitude of examples where this isn't the case.
Merch stays a bad indicator of future story developments.

Again it just seems like on here people really equate outcome with the validity of argument given this is another case that seems to try to paint oh yeah merch argument was right that time...

Like just no....

Deicide

@Hakase said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

WTF? Then point out a second time it worked out

My point is that just because Jinbe joined after coin merch doesn't actually mean that "it worked" as you call it. It's a stretch to assume causation when you have a multitude of examples where this isn't the case.
Merch stays a bad indicator of future story developments.

Really? Are you really reading what I write? Or do you fixate on one point and ignore the rest?

My very first sentence was:

Merch is a very poor meter to see who would join.

And I myself pointed it out:

Sometimes, I think it was a gambit of the company, much like the Yamato towel probably was, and not the result of insider knowledge.

The point of the matter is that the merch was right. So, those who bet on Jinbe joining because of the coins ended up right as well. If it was by coincidence or design, it doesn't matter.

Hakase

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Hakase said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

WTF? Then point out a second time it worked out

My point is that just because Jinbe joined after coin merch doesn't actually mean that "it worked" as you call it. It's a stretch to assume causation when you have a multitude of examples where this isn't the case.
Merch stays a bad indicator of future story developments.

Really? Are you really reading what I write? Or do you fixate on one point and ignore the rest?

My very first sentence was:

Merch is a very poor meter to see who would join.

And I myself pointed it out:

Sometimes, I think it was a gambit of the company, much like the Yamato towel probably was, and not the result of insider knowledge.

The point of the matter is that the merch was right. So, those who bet on Jinbe joining because of the coins ended up right as well. If it was by coincidence or design, it doesn't matter.

I read what you say but what you say is nonsense.
The merch argument didn't become right or turned as an actual indicator. You're trying to paint a correlation as a causation. The fact that you're still arguing this is why I did rightly point it out.

Like I don't get how this is hard to understand just cause an outcome becomes true it doesn't actually raise the validity or proves an actual causation of any argument made towards that outcome.

This shouldn't be a hard thing to understand.
Basically it's just as likely that Jinbe merch was like any other merch regardless of what happened in the story.

Deicide

@Hakase

You are just salty because you turned out wrong, so now you come "debunk" arguments that only exist in your head.

My point was very clear: don't trust merch. I point the only case in which merch was correct and why it could be just a coincidence.

Then you come argue against my point because... we shouldn't trust merch. And then you say the only case the merch was correct was not correct because it could be just a coincidence...

So, in essence you are saying the same thing as me, except you are trying to paint me as wrong so you can feel better for being wrong about Yamato.

Get over it. You are just being obnoxious, not just with me, but with everyone else.

Hakase

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Hakase

You are just salty because you turned out wrong, so now you come "debunk" arguments that only exist in your head.

My point was very clear: don't trust merch. I point the only case in which merch was correct and why it could be just a coincidence.

Then you come argue against my point because... we shouldn't trust merch. And then you say the only case the merch was correct was not correct because it could be just a coincidence...

So, in essence you are saying the same thing as me, except you are trying to paint me as wrong so you can feel better for being wrong about Yamato.

Get over it. You are just being obnoxious, not just with me, but with everyone else.

No I'm salty at bad logic. I'm always salty at bad logic regardless of the topic and I will be salty at bad logic in future. Like you're literally saying the Jinbe merch argument was right when that is actually not a thing.
The actual condition for the merch argument to be right is for the merch people to have actually known about Jinbe joining and actively pushing because of that, and as far as I know we don't know if they did.
It would be nice if my attempts at pointing bad logic out actually lead to anything but clearly they don't.
But again just unfathomable to me how this is like a hard concept to understand.

Like don't people learn this shit in school?

Deicide

@Hakase said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

No I'm salty at bad logic. I always salty at bad logic regardless of the topic.

Your logic is not as good as you think.

Hakase

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Hakase said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

No I'm salty at bad logic. I always salty at bad logic regardless of the topic.

Your logic is not as good as you think.

It's not what I think it's literally what everyone teaches in schools over here.

Like what is there hard to get about how the outcome of a situation does not validate the actual arguments made for that outcome.

I can fucking come up with 20 voodoo reasons for how to win the lottery get lucky winning the lottery and that still didn't turn any of the 20 voodoo reason right retroactively.

This should be very simple but apparently not.

Like the coin merch argument I assume was trying to paint a causation from the merch existing to proving his future joining. Just because he actually joined doesn't actually prove the causation at all.
Correlation does not equal causation. The merch argument never became right because he joined, as outsiders not knowing what the people that made the decisions on the merch we simply don't know.

I'm literally baffled how this is a discussion.

Also if you actually think you meant the same as me then why argue, just write it off as poor wording and then yes we might actually not have disagreed on anything. But the fact that you're arguing just seems to indicate a clear consistent lack of understanding this relation.

Galleon Panthera

Come on people, in the end, its a fictional story. If Carrot's story ended like poorly like that, then it ended poorly. If there's more to her than meets the eye, then great. I do find the picture that Bobloblaw shared pretty strong though. Only makes it harder to swallow if Carrot's story indeed has ended as it has....which by the way, I think it did. Doesn't make me happy, given I wanted, and I will repeat this once more, I wanted a logical conclusion to this...not some hanging thread that will take several chapters to do.

That said, I don't take merch as a big pointer to anyone joining. As for anyone joining new from a new arc....I'm also not putting my faith in that. People did the same thing with Yamato despite lacking some core requirements, and look where that ended up? Right, exactly that.

We are in the endgame now, so the final crewmate (if there is going to be another one) has to be someone already pretty established in the storyline, and not someone entirely new. I don't feel there's any time for a brand new character to join.

Deicide

@Galleon-Panthera

I agree that the final crewmate should be an established character.

BUT we need to consider other possibilities as well. I mean, if it's not impossible, then it can be discussed.

We should keep our minds open, so that we don't shot down possibilities due to bias.

Since we don't have actual candidates playing an active role in the story yet, I think the discussion right now should be around what position the 11th would take on the ship, as well as what roles it would have in the coming arcs. Other possible sources for clues are the future enemies we are going to meet.

I think we may get clues within the next four or five chapters. The journey to the next island could give an idea of what role is missing in the ship, for instance, or maybe by them the first would-be candidates may be introduced.

Or Carrot pops out of a barrel, who knows.

King Cannon

Regarding Carrot, I was surprised to find out she doesn't even have half of Vivi's screentime in terms of panel count, yet appears in about 107 chapters in total compared to Vivi's 119.

This is a character that definitely pops out a lot but doesn't really do much when that happens in the end. In other words, quantity over quality in terms of appearance. It's why I got more and more convinced as Wano went on that Oda didn't think much of her. No way would a future crewmate get such a piss poor treatment in the longest arc to date.

Deicide

@King-Cannon
I'm certainly far from a Carrot supporter. The problem, really, is her non-concluding ending. If we had seen her farewell or at least her decision after being asked to be the new Mink leader, it would have had a finality to it hard to argue against.

Imagining Carrot joins, I feel her as a candidate needs to be analyzed mostly in WCI arc, because Wano may have been just an hyatus in her character arc. Under that case, she was mostly off-screened because Oda didn't want to advance her story there, and opted to have her do her own things and then return attention to her an arc later.

Personally, I don't see Carrot joining the crew. I just don't get the vibe, nor see any foreshadowing or special interest (from Oda) in her.

To me, her lackluster open ending is just another consequence of the bloated Wano story. I think Oda really should have devoted one more chapter to Wano in order to wrap Carrot and Yamato properly before we got the curtains closing, but I guess he wanted to end Wano with Volume 104, so he chose to cut some essential corners.

Hakase

To add on it's just bad treatment regardless even for a side character. Her one moment shining was scratching perosperos face with Wanda before just staying on the ground... I feel at large most side characters that aren't generally just meant to be background ornaments receive better treatment than that and as people said her becoming king of zou feels like out of nowhere for a reason. Not arguing that she joins really but if that was the plan from the start there should have been scenes building it up, instead of well nothing.

As for general crewmate things I still believe that we're getting another one but it might feel lackluster if they just join right at the end who knows. I still do think mirroring blackbeard's crew just feels nice on a meta narrative level. But it's possible Oda throws 1 of the titanic captains against a grandfleet team up or an ally like Law. In general Oda might not opt for 1 to 1 matchups even if I think a lot of fans myself included would want that for the finale.

King Cannon

@Deicide But here's the thing, there's no good reason Oda would offscreen the development of a character who was supposed to become a main one. Like, why would you do that? Shouldn't a main character's background and development be a priority, especially a new, recent one?

Even Jinbe didn't get this treatment when his joining was delayed. He got multiple arcs where he was at the forefront and even a cover story to make up for his absence. Result: by the time we got to Wano, he already had over 1000 panels in terms of appearance count, and thus was part of a select group.

Curiously though, he's still behind Vivi. She truly is a screentime juggernaut. I wouldn't be surprised if Oda is just deciding to keep the SH at 10 for now in order to give Jinbe more breathing room.

theackwardstation

@King-Cannon said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Regarding Carrot, I was surprised to find out she doesn't even have half of Vivi's screentime in terms of panel count, yet appears in about 107 chapters in total compared to Vivi's 119.

This is a character that definitely pops out a lot but doesn't really do much when that happens in the end. In other words, quantity over quality in terms of appearance. It's why I got more and more convinced as Wano went on that Oda didn't think much of her. No way would a future crewmate get such a piss poor treatment in the longest arc to date.

Vivi stood as a much more fundamental character during the Alabasta saga than Carrot in this Yonkou Saga due to the nature of their role in the plot, so it's natural how one got a lot more screentime than the other. At the end of the day, Vivi was and still is more important than Carrot, unless the latter finds new air in the story. But the difference of panel-time is also due to the nature of Early Piece (less characters, more focus) than the character inflation of Late Piece. It's also worth noting that, during Alabasta, the crew was always together sharing screentime with each other, whereas nowadays people are always separate (and Luffy is a black hole of panel time).

Anyway, I agree that Carrot's poor treatment in Wano is a fatal sign of her destiny.

Deicide

@King-Cannon

I can't say "there's no good reason", because I can think of reasons behind such a decision.

For instance, Wano's bloated cast may have made Oda decide to off-screen Carrot since he wanted to give her character more attention than he could at that point. In that case, Carrot's fight with Perospero may have played a role similar to Jinbe's cover story.

I'm not saying this is likely. I agree with you in general, but I feel we need to keep the mind open for any possibilities. Authors can totally avoid established formulas to keep the audience off-guard.

King Cannon

@theackwardstation I would argue that Carrot herself benefitted a lot from WCI arc's structure, which intentionally focused in a small group of characters fighting together through a dangerous territory, much like Early Piece.

The moment the story came back to being a battle royale with tons of reactions shots and third-parties all over the place, she suffered like every other secondary character, because the competition for panel time became naturally fiercer.

theackwardstation

@King-Cannon said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Even Jinbe didn't get this treatment when his joining was delayed. He got multiple arcs where he was at the forefront and even a cover story to make up for his absence. Result: by the time we got to Wano, he already had over 1000 panels in terms of appearance count, and thus was part of a select group.

I'm a Jimbe fan and a supporter of him joining the crew since Marineford, but I don't agree that Jimbe got nearly enough screentime and development in FI and WCI as the standard set by past crewmates.

theackwardstation

@King-Cannon said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@theackwardstation I would argue that Carrot herself benefitted a lot from WCI arc's structure, which intentionally focused in a small group of characters fighting together through a dangerous territory, much like Early Piece.

The moment the story came back to being a battle royale with tons of reactions shots and third-parties all over the place, she suffered like every other secondary character, because the competition for panel time became naturally fiercer.

WCI was not such a small cast, but I agree in general that she benefitted from it. What always got my attention though was the contrast between Carrot's plot relevancy (none, no relationship with the story of WCI or Wano) vs her screentime in WCI being above other SHs who were around. Obviously, she was almost non-existent in Wano.

King Cannon

@theackwardstation By the time he joined for real, he already had plenty of screentime.

Like, he's still way behind Brook, but that's a given. Brook himself is still way behind Franky, who's way behind Robin and so on. Things only really get stable when you get to the East Bluers, and then Luffy just shits on everyone else because he's the protag.

Hakase

Kinda disagree on not getting enough development in FI, because the Fisher Tiger flashback does as much as any other strawhat flashback to inform us of who Jinbe is and what he is trying to carry forward. He's the old guard that still tries to bridge between Otohime's ideals while having a deep understanding of the pain Fisher Tiger went through. I feel like people are not giving it the credit just cause Jinbe wasn't the main pov of that flashback.
The only thing we're lacking right now is if his "dream" has a more concrete shape than we know so far, the Nika talk possibly hinted at such.
But generally we know why and how he ticks.

BobLoblaw

@King-Cannon said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Deicide But here's the thing, there's no good reason Oda would offscreen the development of a character who was supposed to become a main one. Like, why would you do that? Shouldn't a main character's background and development be a priority, especially a new, recent one?

Even Jinbe didn't get this treatment when his joining was delayed. He got multiple arcs where he was at the forefront and even a cover story to make up for his absence. Result: by the time we got to Wano, he already had over 1000 panels in terms of appearance count, and thus was part of a select group.

Curiously though, he's still behind Vivi. She truly is a screentime juggernaut. I wouldn't be surprised if Oda is just deciding to keep the SH at 10 for now in order to give Jinbe more breathing room.

If he did, then he would've had his reasons, obviously. Coming out of WCI, like 80-90% of the community just assumed she would join given her panel time and bonding with the crew.

Since she wasn't a pivotal character in Wano, he could've intentionally just put her in the background for use later while still given her a little development (see convenient appearance of Perospero on the Onigashima) all the while distracting people with the other shiny object.

King Cannon

Or Oda simply forgot about her and put Perospero there so she had something to do.

Which she didn't even do in the end as Neko pretty much stole her moment.

Like, what?

theackwardstation

@King-Cannon said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@theackwardstation By the time he joined for real, he already had plenty of screentime.

Like, he's still way behind Brook, but that's a given. Brook himself is still way behind Franky, who's way behind Robin and so on. Things only really get stable when you get to the East Bluers, and then Luffy just shits on everyone else because he's the protag.

Jimbe had plenty of screentime overall, but he was never at the dramatic center of any arc he was in, he was never the protagonist of any arc, but more like a pompous secondary character (ID, Marineford, FI, WCI, you name it). Even "his" flashback doesn't feel like his own, but rather of Otohime and Fisher Tiger.

All in all, a very atypical SH to this day. Not that I hold anything against him.

Deicide

@King-Cannon
One could say her defeat to Perospero could be a plot point to be explored in her character arc.

@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Jimbe had plenty of screentime overall, but he was never at the dramatic center of any arc he was in, he was never the protagonist of any arc, but more like a pompous secondary character (ID, Marineford, FI, WCI, you name it). Even "his" flashback doesn't feel like his own, but rather of Otohime and Fisher Tiger.
All in all, a very atypical SH to this day. Not that I hold anything against him.

The vibe I get from Jinbe is that he's there as a representative of the fishmen and mermaids rather than having his own character arc.

Neither Fishman Island nor WCI or Wano were about changing Jinbe in anyway, he came pre-formed by his experiences.

Even his dream is not clearly defined.

As such, I think that's his role in the future: advance the fishman-related plotlines, rather than having his own ambitions to fulfill.

King Cannon

@theackwardstation Well, he does have his own cover story, which we could consider an arc.

I know he doesn't have much of a personal story, but I guess that's subjective. For example, I think Zoro's backstory is superpathetic compared to later SH's.

Same for Usopp's, although Water 7 did develop the character in an interesting manner. Wano could have done the same to Zoro, but it doesn't go farther than Kozaburo and his sword lore.

theackwardstation

@King-Cannon I agree that Zoro was unlucky due to his arc being the first (which is compensated by participating in everything else), but Syrup Village was an excelent introduction to Usopp where he was certainly the protagonist in all ways possible even if the flashback itself was lackluster. It was really surprising to me that Jimbe didn't get more protagonism during FI, even though the blood transfusion is one of my favorite scenes in the series.

King Cannon

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@King-Cannon
One could say her defeat to Perospero could be a plot point to be explored in her character arc.

Some people say Carrot's character is about freedom, but to me, it's very clearly about strenght. Like, it's the one reason she protests when appointed leader.

If she thinks she's not strong enough to be Zou's ruler, then why would she think she's strong enough to sail with Luffy's crew? The first time she did it, Pedro ended up dead. And like Perospero pointed it out, if you don't want to see your friends die, then don't go out.

And she didn't prove she could do it since Perospero just humiliated her right there.

To me, she needs to become way more capable before she even intends to set sail again.

BobLoblaw

@King-Cannon
Doubt. There's just a lot of unresolved stuff. Oda usually wraps things up with a nice bow for allies who've been around in a single arc, much less multiple.

We have Pedro's will (he's been mentioned by Luffy and the minks in the past 13-14 chapters) and her understanding of it.

We have her losing to Perospero and then him telling her to go back home where it's safe.

We have Dog and Cat randomly asking her to lead the minks even though she never asked for it and arguably doesn't have the skills to do it. She never accepted as far as we can tell.

We have the SHs parting ways without any kind of goodbye with her and we always get a goodbye for people who sail on their ship.

If Oda did just say, f*** it then this last saga is gonna be bad. Filled with off-paneling and half-assing character arcs.

King Cannon

This post is deleted!

Deicide

@BobLoblaw said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

If Oda did just say, f*** it then this last saga is gonna be bad. Filled with off-paneling and half-assing character arcs.

This is the only part I don't agree with.

Wano had its problems, but they don't need to be carried over to the rest of the story. I just hope Oda learned from them and isn't repeating the same mistakes.

King Cannon

@BobLoblaw said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@King-Cannon
If Oda did just say, f*** it then this last saga is gonna be bad. Filled with off-paneling and half-assing character arcs.

Talking like Wano didn't end with tons of off-paneling and half-assed arcs.

It's very obvious Oda RUSHED a lot to fit everything in Volume 104. You would think Hyogoro, Hiyori, the Scabbards sans Kin'emon, etc, would've gotten proper farewells since some of the SH bonded with them, but nope!

Shin10 Bukuro

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Galleon-Panthera

I agree that the final crewmate should be an established character.

BUT we need to consider other possibilities as well. I mean, if it's not impossible, then it can be discussed.

We should keep our minds open, so that we don't shot down possibilities due to bias.

Since we don't have actual candidates playing an active role in the story yet, I think the discussion right now should be around what position the 11th would take on the ship, as well as what roles it would have in the coming arcs. Other possible sources for clues are the future enemies we are going to meet.

I think we may get clues within the next four or five chapters. The journey to the next island could give an idea of what role is missing in the ship, for instance, or maybe by them the first would-be candidates may be introduced.

Agreed that we should start getting clues sooner rather than later.

I have believed for some time that whatever the Strawhats need on the ship might line up with whatever it is about Vivi that got Imu interested in "erasing" her.

BobLoblaw

@King-Cannon said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@BobLoblaw said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@King-Cannon
If Oda did just say, f*** it then this last saga is gonna be bad. Filled with off-paneling and half-assing character arcs.

Talking like Wano didn't end with tons of off-paneling and half-assed arcs.

It's very obvious Oda RUSHED a lot to fit everything in Volume 104. You would think Hyogoro, Hiyori, the Scabbards sans Kin'emon, etc, would've gotten proper farewells since some of the SH bonded with them, but nope!

Right. I'm gonna chalk that one up to the rush to get the arc finished before Film Red released. We're used to seeing better. Much better. Hell, we just had WCI, which is a top 3 arc.

Monquito

@BobLoblaw pffht, its not as impressive as towels.

theackwardstation

@King-Cannon said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@King-Cannon
One could say her defeat to Perospero could be a plot point to be explored in her character arc.

Some people say Carrot's character is about freedom, but to me, it's very clearly about strenght. Like, it's the one reason she protests when appointed leader.

If she thinks she's not strong enough to be Zou's ruler, then why would she think she's strong enough to sail with Luffy's crew? The first time she did it, Pedro ended up dead. And like Perospero pointed it out, if you don't want to see your friends die, then don't go out.

And she didn't prove she could do it since Perospero just humiliated her right there.

To me, she needs to become way more capable before she even intends to set sail again.

I don't think Carrot' character is about either freedom or strength. It's more of a coming-to-age story which aimed to make her know herself and her goals by the end of it (the Will of Pedro being the best clue for the end of this development). In my opinion, Carrot becoming the Duchess of Zou is a very proper end to this journey here in Wano, except for the fact it was poorly executed and framed. I just have to accept the lazyness.

Anyway, about strength, I think Carrot is solidly above some of the SHs even in her base form, and her Sulong form is just as strong as Franky Shogun and Monster Chopper. So I cannot look at strength as a downside for her chances of joining. And in case her goal was to get stronger, the best decision she could take is to join the SHs, since that's the path for power growth.

BobLoblaw

@Monquito I'll never not be amazed at how many people fell for that one. We also saw Yamato on a bag with Luffy and people took that as some kind of clue, unaware of the fact that Oda also did one with Luffy/Law and Luffy/Kid. At least with Carrot, there's stuff in the story to pull from across hundreds of chapters.

spoiler

fapfapfap

@Deicide Unless the story makes it clear I don't think role/profession is a good avenue for discussing future crew members. The Strawhats never needed a helmsman until WCI arc when Jinbe was shown being the perfect helmsman. Many assumed Jinbe would be the helmsman he was only really shown steering a ship briefly around Marineford arc and I think some of the evidence people cited was anime-only. Usopp didn't show off his marksmanship until after joining the crew.

Personally I think fighting styles would be a good way to eliminate potential characters. Zoro and Brook both use swords but they fight VERY differently. It wouldn't make sense to add someone like Kin'emon since he fights very similarly to Zoro. Despite me thinking Yamato wouldn't join I thought the use of a bat/club was unique. Carrot to me feels different enough from Jinbe and Sanji. Carrot being a speedy lightweight, Jinbe being a strong heavyweight, and Sanji being somewhere in the middle.

King Cannon

@theackwardstation This is actually another problem Carrot has. Her fighting style is too undercooked and not particularly creative.

She only has two named techniques (Eleclaw and Electrical Luna, plus the combo move she used with Wanda that was just a double Eleclaw), whereas SH candidates tend to have numerous named moves by the time they join. People say Yamato was taking too much from Brook, but Carrot wasn't doing anything special either, especially now that Nami has a flying, homing lightning cloud. Even Law does more interesting things with lightning.

It was one reason I thought Yamato was set to join. She had a very impressive moveset in a series where secondary characters are lucky to get 2 or 3 moves. And the use of a club and wolf form made her different enough from Brook to stand on her own.

And that's not taking in account the incredibly situational circumstances behind Sulong.

Deicide

@fapfapfap I do agree that we never had a scene in which a helmsman was stated as needed, but there was still a hint of a future helmsman when Jesus Burgess got that role among the Blackbeard Pirates.

Musician, navigator, cook, doctor and shipwright were all debated before they were filled.

Helmsman wasn't debated, but, as said above, it was still previewed through the Blackbeard crew.

That leaves combatant, sniper and archeologist as the ones that weren't talked about before those members joined.

So, yeah, it's not required to happen, but I feel there's the chance that the final role could be foreshadowed either explicitly (the crew stops to talk about the necessity) or implicitly (something happens in the journey and there's a hint of something missing in the crew, even if the story does not flat out tells it to us).

Personally, I feel Jinbe's inclusion may lead into that. As a former captain and experienced pirate, Jinbe could point out some role the crew is missing.

theackwardstation

@King-Cannon to be honest, for someone without a single proper 1v1, I think Carrot has a very distinct and unique fighting style in visuals, especially in Sulong form, but also in her basic form. More acrobatic, lightweight and elegant. I also like the gloves.

But yes, by now she should have fought more and have named attacks.

electricmastro

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Deicide Unless the story makes it clear I don't think role/profession is a good avenue for discussing future crew members. The Strawhats never needed a helmsman until WCI arc when Jinbe was shown being the perfect helmsman. Many assumed Jinbe would be the helmsman he was only really shown steering a ship briefly around Marineford arc and I think some of the evidence people cited was anime-only. Usopp didn't show off his marksmanship until after joining the crew.

Personally I think fighting styles would be a good way to eliminate potential characters. Zoro and Brook both use swords but they fight VERY differently. It wouldn't make sense to add someone like Kin'emon since he fights very similarly to Zoro. Despite me thinking Yamato wouldn't join I thought the use of a bat/club was unique. Carrot to me feels different enough from Jinbe and Sanji. Carrot being a speedy lightweight, Jinbe being a strong heavyweight, and Sanji being somewhere in the middle.

Jinbe does show off helmsman skills just before Marineford, with the Tarai Current surrounding the Gates of Justice being hard to navigate without above-average helmsman skills I understand.

King Cannon

There was this very brief scene at the start of WCI that hinted at the need of a helmsman (Luffy and Brook didn't know what starboard meant, so they failed at understanding Nami's directions), but it was a very eleventh hour thing since Jinbe was already heavily set up to join in that arc anyway.

Deicide

@King-Cannon This is the kind of hint that we may need to look for if we don't get any clear debate about a role.

It's purely speculation, but I always felt that the post-Emperor saga would start with a scene at sea in which the Straw Hats had some sort of trouble. And then, by the end of the arc, something similar happens, and whoever is on the ship manages to handle that trouble, thus showing the readers that the crew is complete.

Shiebs

I still think the look out position would be the dumbest thing ever but who knows at this point

I still think we'll get a new job the SH's will need like we usually do most times were about to get a new crewmate

When Oda is done teasing world events and the SH's come back into focus, either Carrot will be aboard or will find a new problem they suddenly need a new crew mate for

electricmastro

@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I still think the look out position would be the dumbest thing ever but who knows at this point

I still think we'll get a new job the SH's will need like we usually do most times were about to get a new crewmate

When Oda is done teasing world events and the SH's come back into focus, either Carrot will be aboard or will find a new problem they suddenly need a new crew mate for

Going by Sanji’s comment of alcohol not being on board the Sunny by the time Jinbe rejoined and Chapter 999, there is the idea of Yamato being brewer, but maybe that’s too ridiculous.