Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

[Shiebs]

@Cockycent said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

The whole Kuma bit is weird. Is he still there mentally? Did Sabo rescue an empty vessel? I don't remember any follow up to whatever deal Kuma and VP made. Just seen Kuma being used as a horse. This is messed up.

If anything, Kuma not only protected the ship, his decision to send the crew around the world was so clutch. This guy has been part of so many intense impactful moments. I am not worthy.

So you agree with me!!!!

Also he has a 2.9 devil fruit, not that anyone but me still cares about that

[zeltrax225]

Maybe kuma has two minds? Like the one being ridden as a Horse is a robot mind that is programmed by VP so it takes over when Kuma is unconscious and doesn't need to suffer through that but switches back on whenever he wants to?

[Shin10 Bukuro]

I just wanted to point out my top 5 reasons why Yamato wouldn't join:

1. No foreshadowing? Very un-Oda-like, and very suspicious.

2. There's not enough time remaining in the series to properly develop another main character. Oda has so much on his plate, he just has no more room...

3. No "job title" on the ship.

4. Yamato is far too strong. She'll become Admiral/Yonkou level very soon.

5. The Vivrecards didn't leave an 11th spot open. Also, if we follow Luffy's words strictly, then he already has 10 Nakama (including Vivi).

@TLC said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I am 90% sure Yamato is joining the crew and 120% sure she is leaving the island. When one or both of these events happens, I would like to think the naysayers will have the humility to accept how misguided their views were and how they were not based on the actual text in front of them but were working backwards from their own preconceptions. I expect they will instead lash out and claim how it could have gone either way and that there was tons of valid evidence that they could have been right and it's only because of luck or Oda's whims that it went the opposite or even that Yamato joining/leaving is bad writing and going against what the author clearly set up.

To all these people I say no. You were wrong and were always going to be wrong because your arguments were based on bad logic and prejudice and that you will not be allowed to save face and claim otherwise.

And if I am wrong, you can go ahead and requote this in the future and shove my face in it because, rest assured, I will be doing the same when I am right.

Your thoughts?

[theackwardstation]

- My hope/copium: Carrot will join. There's no momentum for it right now, but enough hints and legwork, which will need to be polished next arc to complete development.

- My actual prediction: nobody will join. Crew's full.

- About the "honorary SHs" (Vivi, Karoo, Yamato, Momo and Kinnemon): they'll have their moments to shine, will be called nakama by the crew and will travel with them, but will not be featured in the same way as the other 10.
(Extra: Carrot could become "honorary SH" too.)

- Wild guesses: if a past character were to randomly join the crew out of nowhere as the final member, I'd bet on Smoker.

[zeltrax225]

I'm equally upset yet equally happy that Oda did all this just so he could childishly stick to the number 10, counting Vivi as a member even if that meant burning most of the fanbase.
Vivi gang sleeps well tonight.

[Shiebs]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I still think if Carrot, Vivi or an unknown character doesn’t join, Kuma could join, he definitely needs saving and since he now has hundreds of look alikes maybe it’s possible he’ll get a new body, I mean it would be kind of weird for such a powerful character to look exactly like a character all the cast can one shot, like if they had Kyle REN wear a storm trooper outfit instead of the suit he does wear

And again the straw hats owe him big time and I have no doubt they’ll try to repay that debt

Only problem is if his paw paw fruit isn’t nerfed, especially the whole take away someone’s pain and fatigue

Again though Vegapunk would be a cool member too, a mad scientist would be fun

Franky is basically the mad scientist. lol

Mad scientists and Cyborgs fight differently at least, compare how Genos and Child Emporor fight in the One Punch man manga

[Deicide]

@rayleigh92 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I just feel like them being called nakama is also a reward for the readers who had to follow their path for so much time.

No doubt on that!

I don't want to minimize the importance of Kin, Momo and Yamato. It's just that I feel Vivi is still on a level of her own. Part of that is due to how early in the series the events surrounding her were, but there's something a bit special about her case that I don't feel the others have achieved.

@Cockycent said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

The whole Kuma bit is weird. Is he still there mentally? Did Sabo rescue an empty vessel? I don't remember any follow up to whatever deal Kuma and VP made. Just seen Kuma being used as a horse. This is messed up.
If anything, Kuma not only protected the ship, his decision to send the crew around the world was so clutch. This guy has been part of so many intense impactful moments. I am not worthy.

I think Kuma will be the reason we will seek Vegapunk, and the crew will repay their debt by restoring him there.

I can't yet figure how they'll meet him again. I thought the Mary Geoise arc would lead to that, but now that we know Sabo escaped with Kuma, that seems impossible now.

@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Also he has a 2.9 devil fruit, not that anyone but me still cares about that

About that... I never believed in the Number Theory as something Oda planned, just a big coincidence. But I think he's not above brute forcing it retroactively.

With Luffy now being "Nika", his number may have changed to 2.9 (ni-ku/kyuu, but Nika works), thus the number that got freed is now 5.6.

Not that I really believe that, but since I found out that a certain someone has a 5.6 fruit, my mind was blown...

[pokebat7]

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@rayleigh92 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I just feel like them being called nakama is also a reward for the readers who had to follow their path for so much time.

No doubt on that!

I don't want to minimize the importance of Kin, Momo and Yamato. It's just that I feel Vivi is still on a level of her own. Part of that is due to how early in the series the events surrounding her were, but there's something a bit special about her case that I don't feel the others have achieved.

I think it's because she was a mostly active participant in every arc she was in. Momo and Kin'emon did things during arcs but it was all to build up Wano's plot line. Vivi had one moment in Drum it show she can be a leader, the rest of the story she's just hanging with the crew.

---

@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Also he has a 2.9 devil fruit, not that anyone but me still cares about that

About that... I never believed in the Number Theory as something Oda planned, just a big coincidence. But I think he's not above brute forcing it retroactively.

With Luffy now being "Nika", his number may have changed to 2.9 (ni-ku/kyuu, but Nika works), thus the number that got freed is now 5.6.

Not that I really believe that, but since I found out that a certain someone has a 5.6 fruit, my mind was blown...

The Road to Laugh Tale booklets had a section on devil fruits and it considered the Gomu Gomu no Mi and Nika to be separate fruits. So unless the we get a confirmation that fruits identity is more right than the other. I would believe that Luffy's fruit counts for both 2.9 and 5.6.

But Ignoring that Demaro Black for next Nakama?!?!?!?!

[Deicide]

@pokebat7 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I think it's because she was a mostly active participant in every arc she was in. Momo and Kin'emon did things during arcs but it was all to build up Wano's plot line. Vivi had one moment in Drum it show she can be a leader, the rest of the story she's just hanging with the crew.

I agree. And Vivi also got stuff like personal info on SBS (like color, animal, favorite numbers, presence in the banner on YouTube channel...).

@pokebat7 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

The Road to Laugh Tale booklets had a section on devil fruits and it considered the Gomu Gomu no Mi and Nika to be separate fruits. So unless the we get a confirmation that fruits identity is more right than the other. I would believe that Luffy's fruit counts for both 2.9 and 5.6.

It may be, if we don't get any new DF-using crewmate.

But ultimately, if Oda feels like fulfilling the Number THeory for fun, the Nika fruit gave him a way to cheat the system. Luffy can be either 5.6 or 2.9, and the 11th crewmate can be the one not chosen. Either way, it works.

[Shift]

I said this before but I'll say it again: no shame in believing Yamato would be leaving with the crew. I myself had to eventually admit that he was pushed the hardest and most blatantly and couldn't see anyway around it, especially since Carrot herself seemed perfectly happy with how things turned out. And honestly, the way Yamato changed his mind for no clear reason was pretty cheap. So I'm sorry for all his supporters who had the rug pulled from under them.

Up until chapter 1056, I couldn't see any path forward for Carrot. However, that chapter is what brought my fire back, addressing what I and others were waiting years and years for: Pedro's will.

I'll be breaking up my arguments for Carrot into sections and spoiler tagging them for those who couldn't care less about Carrot after losing Yamato. I hope those who do choose to read it understand that I just want to pursue the truth and that if I'm truly wrong, I'll live with it without complaint. I gave myself to the arrival at the next island; if she isn't anywhere by then, I'll let it go for good.

Pedro's Will

spoiler

[Zhenja]

@BobLoblaw said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

In order to avoid getting duped like this in the future, my advice would be to remain objective and don't just listen to the words a character says. Look at everything and be more like me.

The outcome doesn’t change the fact that people used arguments based on bullshit…

The way Yamato’s decision was handled you can keep your “told you so” to yourself.

[IAmTheMilkman]

Is that poll of predictions still around for whether or not Yamato would join the crew? I feel we deserve an award. It was not easy carrying the Yamato-Won't-Join torch for so long in this fandom. Toward the end, I'll admit even I was coming to terms with the fact that she was probably going to join. It really seemed like it was heading that way. Something about it always felt off to me though, which is why I was never pushing for it (that "something" was put into words pretty effectively by Captain M in the chapter thread).

While we're still making predictions, put me in the camp of people who feel like chapter 1056 was teeing up Carrot to join the crew by stowing away on the Sunny. I could even see Cat and Dog laughing about it later, as if that was their plan all along. I don't have a position one way or the other about whether or not Carrot should join, and I had long written off that possibility, but that bit in 1056 just felt a little incomplete, and that's what got me thinking this might now happen. Of course, it could just as easily play out at face value, and we'll know soon enough, likely by the next chapter.

[electricmastro]

@IAmTheMilkman said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
It was not easy carrying the Yamato-Won't-Join torch for so long in this fandom.

Interesting. Did you do that for previous characters in the past?

[electricmastro]

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I said this before but I'll say it again: no shame in believing Yamato would be leaving with the crew. I myself had to eventually admit that he was pushed the hardest and most blatantly and couldn't see anyway around it, especially since Carrot herself seemed perfectly happy with how things turned out. And honestly, the way Yamato changed his mind for no clear reason was pretty cheap. So I'm sorry for all his supporters who had the rug pulled from under them.

Yamato had no "Shanks" figure in her life and had no clear greater shared purpose in sailing aside from sailing just for the sake of it, so I can't understand why someone would think Yamato would join before getting development like that, since all the other Straw Hats have had it.

[pokebat7]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I said this before but I'll say it again: no shame in believing Yamato would be leaving with the crew. I myself had to eventually admit that he was pushed the hardest and most blatantly and couldn't see anyway around it, especially since Carrot herself seemed perfectly happy with how things turned out. And honestly, the way Yamato changed his mind for no clear reason was pretty cheap. So I'm sorry for all his supporters who had the rug pulled from under them.

Yamato had no "Shanks" figure in her life and had no clear greater purpose in sailing aside from sailing just for the sake of it, so I can't understand why someone would think Yamato would join before getting development like that, since all the other Straw Hats have had it.

The Daimyo.
The Daimyo were Yamato's "Shanks" outside of Oden they influenced Yamato the most. Though a few of the Straw Hats don't have a "Shanks" (Kuina for Zoro, Yassop for Ussop?)

[Shift]

Here's a take I know not many, if any, will like, but I'm getting it off my chest. Consider Toki's prophecy that hasn't been addressed in a while:

"You are the moon unaware of the dawn. May your purpose be fulfilled and cast nine shadows on the night woven of 20 years. And you shall know the brilliance of the dawn."

My main thought: Carrot is the moon. Luffy would be the sun that brings the dawn, and the rest of the crew, Zoro to Jinbe, would be the nine shadows. Carrot was not aware of her true purpose, but she will know the brilliance of the dawn because she will join the crew that will bring it.

Now, I don't think many will disagree that the matter of Toki's prophecy hasn't been fully addressed. Who was it talking to and/or about?
It's definitely a common theory that the prophecy was just as likely about the Straw Hats as it is about the Akazaya, with Kaido or Orochi seeming to be the moon in question.

If we consider Luffy to represent the dawn as Nika, and his current crewmates including Jinbe as the nine shadows, what if it's not an enemy who's the moon? What if, as I said, Carrot is the moon? Right now she's ignorant of the true importance of Luffy and the crew. That's exactly what Pedro said she would someday understand. She became so focused on avenging Pedro that she lost sight of what he died for in the first place. Carrot, as a Mink and as a rabbit, is among the top candidates to represent the moon itself.

Carrot had no idea about the dawn before Pedro told her, and she seemingly hasn't thought about it since. She will have to know the brilliance of the dawn herself if she wants to make Pedro's dream come true.

At the very least, I have the distinct feeling that Toki was not wasting her words for a villain like Kaido or even Orochi. She was giving a message to someone in the future to whom she wanted to speak. Whoever that may be, Carrot, Momo, Yamato or anyone else, I now believe she meant it positively. She wanted them to open their eyes and see the dawn, exactly what Pedro wanted.

[IAmTheMilkman]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@IAmTheMilkman said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
It was not easy carrying the Yamato-Won't-Join torch for so long in this fandom.

Interesting. Did you do that for previous characters in the past?

I became a fan during Whole Cake Island, so I haven't had many opportunities to do that. And it's not like I was actively campaigning for Yamato not to join the crew -- I like the character just fine -- I just didn't think it was going to happen, and I held strong in my belief (though, again, toward the end I was beginning to have my doubts).

Jinbe was a done deal by the time I started reading. I did suspect that Carrot might join during WCI, but that fizzled out pretty quickly as soon as we got to Wano.

[electricmastro]

@pokebat7 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I said this before but I'll say it again: no shame in believing Yamato would be leaving with the crew. I myself had to eventually admit that he was pushed the hardest and most blatantly and couldn't see anyway around it, especially since Carrot herself seemed perfectly happy with how things turned out. And honestly, the way Yamato changed his mind for no clear reason was pretty cheap. So I'm sorry for all his supporters who had the rug pulled from under them.

Yamato had no "Shanks" figure in her life and had no clear greater purpose in sailing aside from sailing just for the sake of it, so I can't understand why someone would think Yamato would join before getting development like that, since all the other Straw Hats have had it.

The Daimyo.
The Daimyo were Yamato's "Shanks" outside of Oden they influenced Yamato the most. Though a few of the Straw Hats don't have a "Shanks" (Kuina for Zoro, Yassop for Ussop?)

Nah, not just influence, but a shared interest:

Zoro and Kuina both shared the interest of being the greatest swordsman.

Usopp and Banchina shared the interest of a brave and strong warrior.

Sanji and Zeff shared the interest of All Blue.

Franky and Tom shared the interest of building the greatest ship.

The daimyo never really talked about opening Wano's borders, but Yamato did, and the only other person on Wano that seems most keen on opening the borders is Momo, so I feel it makes the most sense based on what had come before for Momo to be the "Shanks" in Yamato's life, and even lead to Yamato being inspired to open Wano, having that be her ultimate dream and sail out to accomplish it somehow.

The pieces all seem there, Yamato just has to put in the effort to put them altogether somehow.

[theackwardstation]

@Shift I disagree with this last post.

"Toki's prophecy" was never a real prophecy. Toki's not even a clairvoyant. What happened is that she personally sent the Scabbards to the future, so she knew that they'd come back to save Wano (and she trusted the Scabbards who stayed behind to endure 20 years too). So that's it, something which wanoese mistook for a prophecy since they couldn't know the true reason behind her words. And, of course, this fake prophecy fuelled the hope of samurai to keep fighting until the day the Dawn would come as Toki said, and so the "prophecy" served its purpose by its own existence -- a self-fulfilled prophecy.

(Besides that, Toki's strong beliefs was also because Oden told her about Joy Boy coming to Wano in 20 years to bring the Dawn, as he learned in Laugh Tale.)

So I don't know why Toki could be talking about Carrot. And it also feels pointless to me since the prophecy already paid off in Wano itself, as the Scabbards did save Wano, and at the end we did have a (lackluster) panel of the "shadows" in chapter 1050.

[pokebat7]

@Shift
Your take on Toki's prophecy is unique, I do like it.

But, as of now it don't think it means
"You are the moon unaware of the dawn (Kaido and Orochi). May your purpose be fulfilled and cast nine shadows on the night woven of 20 years (Scabbards commence the Raid of Onigashima). And you shall know the brilliance of the dawn. (Restoration of the Kozuki's)"

While Toki is a time traveler, I doubt that she could actually see the future. She left the prophecy to assure Wano's citizen's that the Dawn would come they would just have to wait 20 years.

---

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Nah, not just influence, but a shared interest:

• Zoro and Kuina both shared the interest of being the greatest swordsman.
• Usopp and Banchina shared the interest of a brave and strong warrior.
• Sanji and Zeff shared the interest of All Blue.
• Franky and Tom shared the interest of building the greatest ship.

The daimyo never really talked about opening Wano's borders, but Yamato did, and the only other person on Wano that seems most keen on opening the borders is Momo, so I feel it makes the most sense based on what had come before for Momo to be the "Shanks" in Yamato's life, and even lead to Yamato being inspired to open Wano, having that be her ultimate dream and sail out to accomplish it somehow.

They did share an admiration of Oden however, and while Yamato did talk about opening Wano it still fell under her idea of what Oden would have done. Opening Wano would be an additional dream for Yamato similar to how Usopp also wants to visit Elbaf.

The pieces all seem there, Yamato just has to put in the effort to put them altogether somehow.

Pieces have been laid for Yamato to do something but Wano's arc is over, and covering her character development in a cover story would be lacking.

[blackness662]

After chapter 1057, I will forever retire from the Nakama thread.
We can speculate as much as we want, but I think Oda lost his last chance to properly implement the final members of the SH crew.
I don't speak only about Yamato, but all the other candidates so far (Carrot, Momo, Kinemon, etc.).
We have so little time (compare all the important events), that a potential future nakama won't have enough time to develop properly in the last part of OP.
That's how I have seen it.
The only solution would be the return of Vivi, but she is so weak compare to the other SHs, that most likely she will remain an "honorable SH".

[electricmastro]

@pokebat7 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

They did share an admiration of Oden however, and while Yamato did talk about opening Wano it still fell under her idea of what Oden would have done. Opening Wano would be an additional dream for Yamato similar to how Usopp also wants to visit Elbaf.

Well, Momo admires Oden too of course.

[pokebat7]

What is with all the people saying "I retire from the Nakama thread" when they haven't even posted in the last four months.

---

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Well, Momo admires Oden too of course.

Fair, but they aren't seen as equal levels of admiration narrative wise.

[electricmastro]

@pokebat7 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Fair, but they aren't seen as equal levels of admiration narrative wise.

I don't think that really matters. I think that what matters is that Yamato can have someone she can not only root on and encourage, but vice versa, with Momo having the potential to do something that inspires Yamato in some way or encourages her in some way to chase her dream that's somehow relevant to not only to Oden, but also Momo himself. I'm willing to believe that Luffy may be involved in opening the borders at some point, but with Yamato leading the charge on that, while Luffy leads the charge on his Pirate King dream.

[zeltrax225]

You kind of also need Vivi to be the one to rally the rest of the countries that haven't met the straw hats though. She's eventually gonna be the figurehead that leads the rest of the countries against the Gorosei and the corruption in the WG. It's not like Luffy is going to destroy the entire world government (as not all navy are corrupted or an ass like Akainu) and is more like to be a revolution. Sure, there's Dragon but countries won't follow him considering they see each other as enemies for decades but with Vivi, it makes sense for her to be the one that rallies the countries together. I think that's why Oda kept her importance in the story and she's the one that the Reverie incident center around, ultimately she is the politician that will rally the countries of the world for the straw hats crew.

Either way, this chapter cements that this is it. Like, there's no additional straw hat anymore because there really isn't a need to and the man is serious about ending the series sooner than later. If Oda cares about developing his story organically like he used, Yamato joining was sure to happen. Which is why I think he never thought he would go ahead and scrap Yamato AT FIRST, and this felt last minute because something happened to him IRL or that he really felt the accumulated burn out over the years and had to sacrifice Yamato for that purpose.
You can tell that Oda writes now for "what needs to happen" instead of what organically his characters will do, especially so in recent months or even years. Outside of WCI, so many things felt like he was "obligated" to do it instead of having fun with it. Which is why he said that Gear 5 was a fuck it, I'll do what I want thing.

People are also overly excited about "this is the first part without a destination in mind, it feels like an adventure again" when it is more likely that whatever the place they are heading to will tie to Elbaf, Shanks, or Sabo.

[black-leg jex]

Vivi's been gone long enough that her power could literally be anything. We have no idea what she did in those 2 years, maybe her and Kohza trained with each other every day or something. If Vivi needs to be strong enough to deal with actual threats then she will be.

As for Carrot we'll see in the next chapter whether it happens or not. I would like it to as I would like an ew crew member, but we'll see. One thought I did have though is that Carrot does have another reason to join now. She's been asked to be King but she clearly seemed hesitant about it, although not totally against it. The idea that people had for Momo - going out to sea to become stronger and learn how to be a true leader - could be used for Carrot instead. And with one of the themes of the next saga absolutely being what it means to be a King (Pirate King, Im, Vivi, Revolutionaries) this could track. But next chapter will decide that.

[Deicide]

We should wait next chapter just to see if it adds anything to Yamato's decision or Carrot's chances (I think there's a chance of both talking to the crew in flashbacks), and then make a new thread.

Anyway, I feel we will get an update on Boa Hancock within the next two chapters. Those chapters may make or break my theory, so I'm both excited and nervous.

If she gets captured, you can bet I will have a lot to talk about.

[The Light of Shandora]

@Deicide I read your theory about Boa and loved it, one of my favorite theories I ever read. I hope you are on the right track and something similar to it happens in the story.

[Deicide]

@The-Light-of-Shandora
Thanks!

Even if doesn't end up in her actually joining the crew, I think the odds of an arc centered on Hancock are pretty high!

After writing up my theory, I actually found two more "Meta-hints" for it. One is this inner cover of One Piede Doors! Vol. 3. This is a book for collecting cover pages and cover stories. The inner covers always featured the crew, Vivi, Karoo and some other characters to fill up space. Volume 3 was the last for now, and we got this:

And then there's the Number Theory. If we consider "Nika" cheated the theory by changing Luffy's DF number from 5.6 to 2.9, then Hancock's Mero Mero can fill up the missing 5.6.

Full explanation:

spoiler

[Coookie]

@pokebat7 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

What is with all the people saying "I retire from the Nakama thread" when they haven't even posted in the last four months.

You do realize that the forum has been down for the most part of those last four months, right?

[Nobodyman]

I don't know if I'll really have anything new to add, but I guess I'll weigh in on the Yamato situation.

I had a suspicion. I mean, I really hoped not and I still pretty much thought he was gonna join at the end of Wano, but...yeah, I had a suspicion. When it comes to joining the Straw Hats it's not done until it's done.

There were, of course, tons of things indicating he would join, not least of which his explicit desire to do so. His tragic backstory, his rebellious "misfit" nature (both typical of Straw Hats) and his white color scheme, which hadn't yet been filled on the Straw Hat roster. But at the same time there were some oddities. His relatively late introduction into the arc, how truncated his backstory was, that there was no apparent "occupation" for him to fill on the crew, his limited (or nonexistent) screen time with the other Straw Hats. And, I don't know, he just seemed a bit too eager to join the Straw Hats. The whole thing had a "too good to be true" feel to it. With pretty much all Straw Hats there was some initial resistance, but Yamato was on board from the get go.

But hey, I still held out hope. After all, each Straw Hat's story is different in its own way. Hell, Jimbei himself doesn't really tick all the Straw Hat boxes, but here he is. Incidentally, I've always been indifferent about Jimbei joining, but I was really looking forward to Yamato. I guess now I know how a lot of Jimbei fans must have felt after Fishman Island. But nope, I guess all those funny feelings in the back of my brain were right. And now that Wano is over, I have no what clue what Oda was or is thinking with all this. I don't know, maybe Yamato staying on Wano is that "resistance" I mentioned earlier, but considering the whole context of everything else, it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Vivi was one thing, which, granted, I knew going in she wasn't going to be a permanent member. But even reading week-to-week, I assume it must've been fairly obvious she wouldn't necessarily stay with them for good. While she did become great friends with them, her priority was always to her kingdom (kind of like Kinemon and Momo). And even if you genuinely were hoping for her to join, it was hard to be too disappointed. She still had her chance to travel with the Straw Hats and build a repertoire with them, and she had a phenomenal farewell, so she really got her chance to shine. It didn't feel at all like a cheat when she left. Yamato on the other hand feels like a blatant troll move.

I have no clue what Oda's long-term plan is with Yamato and, who knows, maybe he'll surprise us. But at this point in the story I'm getting kind of tired of being told to "wait for the payoff" or "it's gonna get good". In my experience, when people say that about a story, especially one that's gone on this long, well...it usually doesn't.

[Deicide]

@Nobodyman said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

And now that Wano is over, I have no what clue what Oda was or is thinking with all this.

My guess is that Oda needed something to address some plot threads: how Momo gets Oden’s journal, how Kaido came to wait Joyboy to cone for him, how the heroes could hold down Kaido while Luffy was away, and other stuff.

So Yamato was created to fill the needs. Over the creation process, Oda needed to make people to care for this late-coming and extremely convenient addition to the cast. And he decided a “possible nakama” scenario would make everyone invested.

As for the future, I think Yamato will get a cover story and a role in a later arc. But I don’t think he will be a true protagonist like the official crewmates.

[StrawHatJedi]

@theackwardstation

There's something more to that prophecy. There are quotation marks surrounding, "You are the moon, unaware of the Dawn. May your purpose be fulfilled... "

it then transitions to narration boxes:

and cast nine shadows on a night woven of twenty years and you shall know the brilliance of the Dawn.

The style of the narration boxes indicates the latter portion actually comes from Oden's notebook.

But the first part, I'm not so sure. We already know that the Minks have held onto a prophecy of a coming New Dawn for centuries, so it's possible the first part is actually Toki quoting something older still. The quotation marks indicate that she's either reciting something from Oden's journal, or an even older prophecy. It indicates she's not the original source of those words.

I have often used 'Toki's prophecy' as shorthand, but it's true, her power allows her to jump forward in time, but so far we have no reason to believe she's also clairvoyant.

It's interesting that the first part of the 'prophecy' is preceded by Toki' inner monologue: "I fled from the past, Oden. I always thought that if I jumped to the future, someone would pull me through."

We still don't know why Toki is so important, but I think she might be the 'Moon Princess' from the Void Century, hinted at by the song being the favorite of both Oden and Hiyori.

[theackwardstation]

Oda just made a cool character with an awesome design that he was eager to draw, and who would please fans of the series (bacause Yamato is cool), and who could also fill in some gaps (Oden's journal, teaching Momo, giving Kaido a family, etc), and who could play a role in the future too, since Yamato is a honorary SH. But Oda lost his hand baiting Yamato as the next nakama until the last minute and ended up with a huge problem instead of a blessing.

[StrawHatJedi]

Regarding Yamato, I actually think it's pretty clear her story isn't finished, whether or not she joins. Based on Road to Laugh Tale, the bond with Momo was always a fundamental aspect of her character. Though, the Oden reverence came later - and so too, I imagine, did the insistent claims she would sail with Luffy. I already said, probably in the earlier iteration of this thread, that Yamato's bond with Ace and making his Vivre Card was almost certainly retconned. When Vivre Cards were first discussed on Thriller Bark, Lola indicated that they were made on a certain island, but Oda seems to have changed his mind for the sake of convenience at some point (before the Yamato / Ace connection was established since Sabo also made Luffy's Vivre Card on Dressrosa). I think Oda probably always intended to give Kaido a daughter. In fact, a big part of the reason Yamato's story feels incomplete is because Kaido's backstory is still incomplete. Unlike Big Mom, we didn't learn the inciting incident which inspired his errant worldview, nor did we learn about the history of the Ogres... or Yamato's mother. There's a lot Oda still hasn't addressed and it's clear, given that 8 chapters have no passed with no sight of Kaido and Big Mom that he's going to leave their fates uncertain for the foreseeable future - until he decides it's time to tell us where they are and what happened to them.

We know Wano itself needs to be revisited in some form in the future - maybe before Laugh Tale, but probably after. At which point, Yamato, just like Momo, will probably be a major ally with the Straw Hats, whether or not that amounts to her actually being considered a member of the crew. Personally, I've always believed that the core group of Straw Hats will need to be with Luffy on Laugh Tale, so I guess we'll see who gets to be there when One Piece is eventually discovered. But perhaps at that time, we'll also see Kaido and Yamato's relationship revisited - at a point in time when Oda is ready to reveal more details about Kaido's past and the history of the ogres.

[electricmastro]

@Nobodyman said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

There were, of course, tons of things indicating he would join, not least of which his explicit desire to do so. His tragic backstory, his rebellious "misfit" nature (both typical of Straw Hats) and his white color scheme, which hadn't yet been filled on the Straw Hat roster. But at the same time there were some oddities. His relatively late introduction into the arc, how truncated his backstory was, that there was no apparent "occupation" for him to fill on the crew, his limited (or nonexistent) screen time with the other Straw Hats. And, I don't know, he just seemed a bit too eager to join the Straw Hats. The whole thing had a "too good to be true" feel to it. With pretty much all Straw Hats there was some initial resistance, but Yamato was on board from the get go.

I felt it would have been refreshing seeing a member join who was actually eager to join Luffy, instead of rejecting him right off the bat like in the past. I'd say you're onto missing like the apparent "missing occupation" though. She has some missing aspects that would make it more fitting for her to go, but doesn't yet. Kinda frustrating she doesn't yet, but oh well, we'll have to see where it goes from there.

[electricmastro]

@StrawHatJedi said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Regarding Yamato, I actually think it's pretty clear her story isn't finished, whether or not she joins. Based on Road to Laugh Tale, the bond with Momo was always a fundamental aspect of her character. Though, the Oden reverence came later - and so too, I imagine, did the insistent claims she would sail with Luffy. I already said, probably in the earlier iteration of this thread, that Yamato's bond with Ace and making his Vivre Card was almost certainly retconned. When Vivre Cards were first discussed on Thriller Bark, Lola indicated that they were made on a certain island, but Oda seems to have changed his mind for the sake of convenience at some point (before the Yamato / Ace connection was established since Sabo also made Luffy's Vivre Card on Dressrosa). I think Oda probably always intended to give Kaido a daughter. In fact, a big part of the reason Yamato's story feels incomplete is because Kaido's backstory is still incomplete.

We know Wano itself needs to be revisited in some form in the future - maybe before Laugh Tale, but probably after. At which point, Yamato, just like Momo, will probably be a major ally with the Straw Hats, whether or not that amounts to her actually being considered a member of the crew. Personally, I've always believed that the core group of Straw Hats will need to be with Luffy on Laugh Tale, so I guess we'll see who gets to be there when One Piece is eventually discovered. But perhaps at that time, we'll also see Kaido and Yamato's relationship revisited - at a point in time when Oda is ready to reveal more details about Kaido's past and the history of the ogres.

As mentioned, Momo is meant to be the "Shanks" in Yamato's life, I'd say, so that Yamato can not only meet with someone she can be friendly with, but share a dream which inspires her enough to sail out. I'd also agree that Wano's end set Wano up for it to be revisited instead of promoting finality, including how Yamato's story feels unfinished because Kaido's is unfinished, as well as because of Pluton and Joy Boy. Also given how Oden joined with Roger a year before finding One Piece, I'd suppose it may be set-up to parallel that by having Yamato join Luffy a year before doing so as well.

[pokebat7]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@pokebat7 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Fair, but they aren't seen as equal levels of admiration narrative wise.

I don't think that really matters. I think that what matters is that Yamato can have someone she can not only root on and encourage, but vice versa, with Momo having the potential to do something that inspires Yamato in some way or encourages her in some way to chase her dream that's somehow relevant to not only to Oden, but also Momo himself. I'm willing to believe that Luffy may be involved in opening the borders at some point, but with Yamato leading the charge on that, while Luffy leads the charge on his Pirate King dream.

I suppose I don't really see Yamato's dream as "Open Wano's borders" as she puts far more emphasis an being Oden. Even when saying she would open Wano's borders she does it because that's what Oden would have done. The reason we are given that she doesn't join the crew is that Oden started his journey by touring Wano.

Opening Wano's borders is a secondary goal to Yamato it is something she can do whenever, hell it's something she would only have to do after traveling across the sea as Oden only really tried open the borders after returning to Wano

Additionally Momo has been supported by Yamato, but we haven't really seen Yamato be supported by Momo in any significant way. If Yamato was to become supported by Momo we would have need a scene where Yamato could have felt indebted to Momo. That never happened, Wano is over and not once has Momo done anything to support Yamato.

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@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Nobodyman said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

And now that Wano is over, I have no what clue what Oda was or is thinking with all this.

My guess is that Oda needed something to address some plot threads: how Momo gets Oden’s journal, how Kaido came to wait Joyboy to cone for him, how the heroes could hold down Kaido while Luffy was away, and other stuff.

So Yamato was created to fill the needs. Over the creation process, Oda needed to make people to care for this late-coming and extremely convenient addition to the cast. And he decided a “possible nakama” scenario would make everyone invested.

As for the future, I think Yamato will get a cover story and a role in a later arc. But I don’t think he will be a true protagonist like the official crewmates.

I also think Oda was trying to use "Yamato's the next crewmate" to make people more invested in her. Given the world 100 popular poll results I'd say it worked, but he had never intended to make something of it.

If this was 10 years ago it would've been more understandable when every Hildon, Sentomaru, and Shakky was though to join, the value of the next crewmate was lower, but after a 10 year drought it the next crewmate is a more valuable position than Oda thought it would be.

This has brought a lot of discussion about Yamato, all of it about her joining and less of how her character has been portrayed. Leading to the events of last chapter, which don't go against how she has been characterized (a person who wants to be Oden) , but against the one thing people cared about her joining the crew.

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@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I'd also agree that Wano's end set Wano up for it to be revisited instead of promoting finality, including how Yamato's story feels unfinished because Kaido's is unfinished, as well as because of Pluton and Joy Boy. Also given how Oden joined with Roger a year before finding One Piece, I'd suppose it may be set-up to parallel that by having Yamato join Luffy a year before doing so as well.

Although I disagree with how these events will play out, I agree that they will happen. Kaido's past can be cover with a Roger flashback, Yamato will have a cover story covering her travels in Wano and then going out to sea, Caribou is our Chekhov's Gun for the ancient weapon's being brought into the final war. Most of this can happen outside of Wano so I don't think we'll necessarily revisit it.

[electricmastro]

@pokebat7 said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I suppose I don't really see Yamato's dream as "Open Wano's borders" as she puts far more emphasis an being Oden. Even when saying she would open Wano's borders she does it because that's what Oden would have done.

Opening Wano's borders is a secondary goal to Yamato it is something she can do whenever, hell it's something she would only have to do after traveling across the sea as Oden only really tried open the borders after returning to Wano

And I think that could possibly be exactly why Yamato is in Wano now, to realize that Yamato wants to open Wano's borders not because Oden did it, but because Yamato genuinely wants to do it, turning that into a primary goal.

[Shiebs]

What logia fruits are even left? I can’t think of any forces of nature that haven’t been done

I’d say rocks but we already have Pica which is too close in concept I think

[Hakase]

@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

What logia fruits are even left? I can’t think of any forces of nature that haven’t been done

I’d say rocks but we already have Pica which is too close in concept I think

Wind/Storm/Air(whatever oda chooses), Earth I think is possible but I don't think we'll see it but since there is Fire and Magma, I think a differentiation between earth(basically the ground and everything it contains so also mineral manipulation) and stone makes sense too. Given we also have stuff like swamp, sand and snow, stuff like oil makes sense to me too.

The only one I expect we'll see though that's left is wind or something adjacent to it. But if Oda wanted there is still stuff to dig for.

[Deicide]

@Hakase
The problem with wind/storm/air is that we already have a gas fruit and a electricity fruit.

(I wonder what’s Dragon’s power… maybe a weather paramecia or a mythical zoan?)

[Hakase]

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Hakase
The problem with wind/storm/air is that we already have a gas fruit and a electricity fruit.

That simply doesn't connect that's like saying the problem with magma is we already have a fire fruit.
Or the problem with snow is we already have an ice fruit.
This even extends further if we go outside logia like how we have a ton ton and kilo kilo fruit.

Oda hasn't really shown to have any issue with splitting things like that. Pretty sure for logias it's less about the power and more about if it can be visually interesting and distinct.

[Deicide]

@Hakase
I don’t think Ice/Snow or Fire/Magma are valid comparisons to wind/gas or storm/gas+electricity.

Ice and Snow are similar, but different. Fire and magma are not even similar except for being both hot. One is energy, the other is liquified rock under extreme pressure.

Wind is literally moving gas. Stotm is kinda possible when compared to things like swamp or forest, I guess, but it feels like a fusion of two DFs we’ve already seen.

[pokebat7]

From SBS Volume 79, Chapter 790, Page 100

---

D. About the powers from the Dressrosa Arc that Doflamingo's officers have... are they pretty much just improved versions of the abilities that the Baroque Works members had (so like Ton Ton → Kiro Kiro, Beta Beta → Doru Doru, Buki Buki → Supa Supa, and Pamu Pamu → Bomu Bomu)? from TaokaS43

O. It's true that "superior" devil fruit abilities are a thing, but as of now, it's pretty much just these four pairs.

(Ton Ton > Kiro Kiro , Hie Hie > Yuki Yuki, Magu Magu > Mera Mera, Buki Buki > Supa Supa)

Though there are other fruit pairs out there that might make you wonder don't they pretty much do the same thing?, these abilities tend to be headed in different directions in terms of how they actually work or what they can do. Also, a superior ability does not necessarily equate to the character's strength. No ability alone guarantees victory in combat.

[Hakase]

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Hakase
I don’t think Ice/Snow or Fire/Magma are valid comparisons to wind/gas or storm/gas+electricity.

Ice and Snow are similar, but different. Fire and magma are not even similar except for being both hot. One is energy, the other is liquified rock under extreme pressure.

Wind is literally moving gas. Stotm is kinda possible when compared to things like swamp or forest, I guess, but it feels like a fusion of two DFs we’ve already seen.

I mean you're just making my point "similar but different" "Wind/Air" is similar but different to gas. Also if Fire is energy with enough you could literally have generating magma just be an extension of fire power. But that's not what Oda went for. Like this argument is just kinda dumb to be honest because you're trying to argue wind is out based on an arbitrary reason that is just not reflected at all in the series.
It's a terrible argument against even if we might not see it in the end.

Like just think about it for a moment how Oda drew gasman and then think to every depiction of air/wind in media as a force. Imo it's really easy to see how they would be visually different which again I think matters much more than anything else. I base this on how Oda has tried to find like a very distinct effect thing for each logia.

Smoke is another power that just doesn't fit in at all into this idea of no elemental overlap.
Visual overlap I feel is a much more convincing reason that has more basis and why I think Earth for example has less of a chance to appear. When i think of an earth man there would be visual overlap to what Pica and even Greenbull does. Just be some mass that morphs out of the ground just seems like the most straightforward base idea. That said if Oda wanted I'm sure he could still find a way to make it visually distinct if he wanted to.

[electricmastro]

Come to think of it, Yamato never really had a relationship with Luffy that would have benefitted him, unlike the others, because she just would have just been calling herself Oden. I guess Oda can't have a member that doesn't really contribute to Luffy's story.

[Shiebs]

Maybe the Straw Hats will need someone with a certain ability to get to laugh tale, like how Robin is necessary, something they don’t have that will become clear when they get the last poneglyph

[electricmastro]

@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Maybe the Straw Hats will need someone with a certain ability to get to laugh tale, like how Robin is necessary, something they don’t have that will become clear when they get the last poneglyph

Yeah, I suppose that's possible. Like if someone turned out to be lore-related like Shirahoshi I guess.

[pokebat7]

@electricmastro
Yeah, I suppose outside of Oden, Yamato didn't do much to intertwine her fate with the Luffy. The rest of her character is Samurai's and the twenty year wait, which would align more with Momo's story. I suppose she was introduced to represent the samurai's 20 year struggle under Kaido , like how Tama represents the struggle of the average Wano citizen under Orochi's regime