I certainly must be reading a different series if this character has done anything to stand out amongst the other fake outs in the past.
I get not being enthused about Yamato but it's a testament that people are going "Yamato is so obvious it must be a fakeout" which has demonstrably not happened for any other candidate so far.
Why does it matter for what I said that Shanks scene (not even a flashback) and Nami's past were great??
It matters because to disregard Zoro and Usopp's pasts just because there were over 1,000 chapters ago and not the same as pasts like Nami's pasts might be setting the bar a little too high, with all due respect.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I don't see any major changes that would make Yamato stay. There's still a lot of narrative appeal that indicates Yamato will be leaving on the Sunny.
Interestingly, the anime had Ace talk to Yamato about what she really wanted as if to parallel what Luffy talked to Sanji about what he really wanted. I suppose it would make sense since Sanji's dad wanted him to live up to his Vinsmoke background, and then called him a failure after he didn't live up to his expectations, and how that could parallel Kaido wanting Yamato to live up to her oni background of not making friends and being his personal shogun warmonger, starving her and chaining her up after not meeting his expectations.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The Ace links alone tell you that Yamato will be going with Luffy.
Almost everything Ace did or promised within his Wano stint has been accomplished in this arc, with Yamato's status being the only thread that is hanging, and probably not for long.
Yeah, wouldn't doubt that Yamato being with Luffy would be meant to be a symbolic representation of Luffy inheriting Ace's promise. Maybe he'd also take along Tama one day too once she becomes a ninja adolescent too.
It matters because to disregard Zoro and Usopp's pasts just because there were over 1,000 chapters ago and not the same as pasts like Nami's pasts might be setting the bar a little too high, with all due respect.
If you really don't think Oda's standards for how to construct a crewmate flashback changed over the years we'll have to agree to disagree. If people got Zoro and Usopp-level backstories for a new member, they would be rightfully disappointed. Yamato is still above that, of course, but I still think it's disappointing compared to all of the others and I really didn't think that would be controversial if he is to become a crewmate.
I don't know dude, sometimes this thread feels like a battleground where you have to pick a side and disregard and dismiss any points made by the "other team". It just gets tiring.
Again the fact that he knows Luffy’s real dream is a big thing
If you really don't think Oda's standards for how to construct a crewmate flashback changed over the years we'll have to agree to disagree. If people got Zoro and Usopp-level backstories for a new member, they would be rightfully disappointed. Yamato is still above that, of course, but I still think it's disappointing compared to all of the others and I really didn't think that would be controversial if he is to become a crewmate.
I don't know dude, sometimes this thread feels like a battleground where you have to pick a side and disregard and dismiss any points made by the "other team". It just gets tiring.
At the end of the day I just come on here to enjoy talking about a series I like with others whether in disagreement or not. It can rub the wrong way when one constantly moves goal posts and dismisses things simply for not being the same as others though.
As for Zoro and Usopp, I think it more so has to do with them not really expressing more and finding closure they they may need with their pasts, which I think will happen when Zoro defeats Mihawk and Usopp meets with Yasopp. It's not the way many would have wanted their stories to be told, but I still think interesting material can come from them regardless depending on what Zoro and Usopp do. I'm not sure what exactly people want more beyond that, because Zoro and Usopp also have driving forces which determine them to move past their tragedies: the boy who promised to get stronger after he couldn't fight with his childhood friend; the boy who lied to preserve the memory of his dying mother and to distract himself from his pain, etc.
Although I can see them being expanded on, those don't disappoint me as it is, so I'm fine. Others are free to feel different though, of course.
No, the real reason is: "I want him to join so he must keep wanting to board the ship, but the Oden thing is annoying, so he must drop it".
Except they are intrinsically tied together:
[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/2c0oIAC.png[/qimg]
Let's see if the desire will survive if his identity is dropped.
Stuff like this makes me wonder if you get Yamato’s character at all or Oda’s writing style.
There’s no precedence for these what ifs. There’s not even a narrative about Yamato struggling with his identity or even questioning it. Yet somehow he’ll drop everything Oden and what be a new character with different desires and motivations?
Seems any idea about Yamato not joining will do at this point regardless of likelihood and the reasoning that Oda did it to some character you thought he would do more with always seemed ridiculous.
I am 90% sure Yamato is joining the crew and 120% sure she is leaving the island. When one or both of these events happens, I would like to think the naysayers will have the humility to accept how misguided their views were and how they were not based on the actual text in front of them but were working backwards from their own preconceptions. I expect they will instead lash out and claim how it could have gone either way and that there was tons of valid evidence that they could have been right and it's only because of luck or Oda's whims that it went the opposite or even that Yamato joining/leaving is bad writing and going against what the author clearly set up.
To all these people I say no. You were wrong and were always going to be wrong because your arguments were based on bad logic and prejudice and that you will not be allowed to save face and claim otherwise.
And if I am wrong, you can go ahead and requote this in the future and shove my face in it because, rest assured, I will be doing the same when I am right.
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No, the real reason is: "I want him to join so he must keep wanting to board the ship, but the Oden thing is annoying, so he must drop it".
Except they are intrinsically tied together:
https://i.imgur.com/2c0oIAC.png
Let's see if the desire will survive if his identity is dropped.
Yamato wants to be like Oden because he was the freest dude around and got to explore the world and have tons of fun adventures despite his social standing not the other way around. Yamato didn't just randomly latch on to this guy because he looked cool when he died and is mindlessly trying to do what he did for no reason. Yamato has been trapped as a prisoner on an island for her entire life. That's why she idolized Oden, because he vicariously lived the life she always wanted to live.
Yeah I don't think Yamato would drop the Oden thing, that's like saying Usopp will definitely stop lying as soon as he boards the Going Merry.
If someone does join this arc what happens to this thread? Does it just die? Or will we speculate on whether Oda will add more characters or not?
It better stay up for a little, I want to see the “I told you so’s”
If someone does join this arc what happens to this thread? Does it just die? Or will we speculate on whether Oda will add more characters or not?
It better stay up for a little, I want to see the “I told you so’s”
It depends if there's any sign that the crew isn't completed. Most people expect some comment in or out of the story in that regard. Plus, there's people who are expecting 12 or even 13 crewmates. So, who knows.
If someone does join this arc what happens to this thread? Does it just die? Or will we speculate on whether Oda will add more characters or not?
It better stay up for a little, I want to see the “I told you so’s”
Unless we get an Oda-confirmed "Crew's Complete" notification at the end of Wano, I imagine it will transition to a new thread sooner or later - though whether it'd be better to do so immediately or wait until we're a bit into the next arc first, I can't say.
It depends if there's any sign that the crew isn't completed. Most people expect some comment in or out of the story in that regard. Plus, there's people who are expecting 12 or even 13 crewmates. So, who knows.
Yeah, I'm in that camp myself.
If someone does join this arc what happens to this thread? Does it just die? Or will we speculate on whether Oda will add more characters or not?
It better stay up for a little, I want to see the “I told you so’s”
It's literally called "vol. 9". This thread isn't going on anywhere until it's reached the max number of posts. Then thread vol. 10 will be opened.
Also no matter how many characters join, you really think APF of all places will tone down talking about the next person to join? Heck, I see people here going X4Nakama even after the series has ended.
It's literally called "vol. 9". This thread isn't going on anywhere until it's reached the max number of posts. Then thread vol. 10 will be opened
The past couple of Next Nakama threads were rebooted around the 4-500 page (8-10k post) mark, but there were a couple of the older ones that went on for more than 1000 pages.
I doubt this one will continue that long - they'll reboot it for a new poll, if nothing else.
If someone does join this arc what happens to this thread? Does it just die? Or will we speculate on whether Oda will add more characters or not?
It better stay up for a little, I want to see the “I told you so’s”
I will be the one who says that when the time comes, lol.
Anyone can take a quick look at my small post on the first page of this thread.
Still 100% sure.
It’s only the matter of time when Luffy’s gonna invite Yamato : P
Oh, I'm a bit ahead of the curb already then. Joining or not, I already consider Yamato to probably be the worst writing of all of Wano arc's issues. This is the character that will ring out to me as Oda at his absolute worst writing skill. This character is like a bad fanfic oc with all their contrived traits and I've given up on waiting for the turnaround where they'll actually be worth their popularity. I character that was all flash and flair but absolutely no substance or value to the arc or the series as a whole.
But que sera sera. I'm prepared and resigned to the disappointment. My expectations could not be lower for them, so I suppose they can only go up from the bottom of the trash.
I'll most certainly make a new thread once the arc is over. I'm thinking, "Vol. 10: Vivi-Lectric Boo-Karoo."
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
Oh for f*cks sake… I hoped that would be the end of it…
Oh for f*cks sake… I hoped that would be the end of it…
It will never end :ninja:
to be honest I don't think anyone will join after Yamato, it seems pretty reasonable to think he would be the last, I've always thought the 10th member would be the last (11 if you count Luffy)
Luffy said in the first chapter he wanted 10 members, Black Beard, the dark evil version of Luffy, and final boss of the series, has 10 titanic captains, and Oda has mentioned how he wanted the Straw Hats to be like a soccer team, which has 11 members
so in all likelihood it should end, the whole next nakama thing, but…... you know this thread will never die
Hell even after the series is over we all know they'll be running new One Piece movies and tv shows to milk it as much as they can, Like Dragon Ball Super and Naruto next generations, so this thread could extend long after Oda's finished, since they can easily add a new crewmember or companion to bump sales
If that doesn't scare the people who hate this thread I don't know what will
Yeah I don't think Yamato would drop the Oden thing, that's like saying Usopp will definitely stop lying as soon as he boards the Going Merry.
Usopp isn't trying to hang onto two identities as if he's obligated to do so to achieve great things and isn't allowed to just "be Usopp." I think that would be more like saying that Usopp would constantly need to be Sogeking in order to be brave, strong, and achieve great things in general. Just as he's allowed to "be Usopp," Yamato is allowed to "be Yamato" and not burden herself with trying to act like Oden and feel the pressure of constantly living up to Oden's expectations.
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Luffy said in the first chapter he wanted 10 members
Yeah, he said something about wanting at least 10 people to join him, depending on how you read it. Not sure what Luffy's limit on people joining him is though.
Can't wait.
However Wano ends, be Yamato, Carrot, Tama or Raizou joining or not, it will be nice to talk about something or someone else after these last years.
I honestly don't see this happening for months though, as we have to cover a lot of points before this arc finishes. And its possible that the next crew member wont be invited until the end, or at least until these things are addressed:
And to be honest this list is likely much bigger, but these are just some things off the top of my head.
My Yamato opinion remains the same: I see a high likelihood of him joining, but can’t say I would consider the road to said outcome smooth.
Yamatos “Case” has a lot of factors going for it, but a lot of these are just so…blunt. Stuff like the connection to Ace, the appearance on volume 100, stating up front that he wants to leave and so on are all valid “clues” for Yamato joining, but they’re also wildly different compared to stuff like Frankys whole Sea Train escapade with Sanji and Usopp or Brook putting off a veritable showcase of personality in front of the entire crew.
Ultimately, I can’t help but see it as Oda deploying a sort of “Cheat code” for making Yamato a crewmate– as if all he needed was to evoke Ace and ask to join right off the bat, and then Yamato could just do…whatever for the remainder of the arc. The bulk of his actual paneltime in the story being tied to helping Momonosuke and a fillerish-feeling bomb-removal becomes totally irrelevant a way to run out the clock to the end of the arc because the “work” has already been done. The Ace-Yamato flashback might’ve been hyper-abridged and awkward, but it conveyed the clues it needed, and that’s enough, supposedly.
Nevertheless theres still a disconnect for many, with an oft-stated expectation that Yamato would get more exposure in a more fully featured flashback…or as part of Kaidous flashback…Kaidous PROPER flashback…
And Yamato might get such exposure, and might very well join, but its also entirely possible that he’ll join based on nothing more than this, because that’s just Odas current writing style.
@Daz:
My Yamato opinion remains the same: I see a high likelihood of him joining, but can’t say I would consider the road to said outcome smooth.
I personally don't think the clues or setup is strong enough for Yamato joining, but I think you're right about it being possibly rocky if Oda did go in this direction. I mean just look at Jinbeis journey to becoming part of the crew. If anything it tells us that Oda isn't afraid to branch out from the cast used on many of the early members.
Yamatos “Case” has a lot of factors going for it, but a lot of these are just so…blunt. Stuff like the connection to Ace, the appearance on volume 100, stating up front that he wants to leave and so on are all valid “clues” for Yamato joining, but they’re also wildly different compared to stuff like Frankys whole Sea Train escapade with Sanji and Usopp or Brook putting off a veritable showcase of personality in front of the entire crew.
Having a connection to Ace is a good point, but its also shared with Otama which is why I don't think it holds a much weight. My guess is that Oda wants to showcase Yamato's strength, personality and leadership skills in the effort to make them a viable candidate for supervising Momonosuke while the country rebuilds under the rule of the former Shogunate.
And yes… in most scenarios Oda wouldn't bother putting this much effort into characters that will lose plot relevance once the crew leave Wano; but my theory is that if Momonosuke is indeed Uranus, then he will indeed be important to the final war, which would mean he needs to not only develop his power, but also become a man (which has already been achieved through his aging). Yamatos guidance is therefore crucial towards him (Momo) being relevant.
Ultimately, I can’t help but see it as Oda deploying a sort of “Cheat code” for making Yamato a crewmate– as if all he needed was to evoke Ace and ask to join right off the bat, and then Yamato could just do…whatever for the remainder of the arc. The bulk of his actual paneltime in the story being tied to helping Momonosuke and a fillerish-feeling bomb-removal becomes totally irrelevant a way to run out the clock to the end of the arc because the “work” has already been done. The Ace-Yamato flashback might’ve been hyper-abridged and awkward, but it conveyed the clues it needed, and that’s enough, supposedly.
We could always see Yamato join at a later stage, or even become some kind of Vivi repeat, with the promise to join once things in Wano are fulfilled.
Nevertheless theres still a disconnect for many, with an oft-stated expectation that Yamato would get more exposure in a more fully featured flashback…or as part of Kaidous flashback…Kaidous PROPER flashback…
And Yamato might get such exposure, and might very well join, but its also entirely possible that he’ll join based on nothing more than this, because that’s just Odas current writing style.
You're likely right about a flashback, but maybe this could be as a means to shed Odens identity and become their own person with new found ambitions.
@Daz:
My Yamato opinion remains the same: I see a high likelihood of him joining, but can’t say I would consider the road to said outcome smooth.
Yamatos “Case” has a lot of factors going for it, but a lot of these are just so…blunt. Stuff like the connection to Ace, the appearance on volume 100, stating up front that he wants to leave and so on are all valid “clues” for Yamato joining, but they’re also wildly different compared to stuff like Frankys whole Sea Train escapade with Sanji and Usopp or Brook putting off a veritable showcase of personality in front of the entire crew.
Ultimately, I can’t help but see it as Oda deploying a sort of “Cheat code” for making Yamato a crewmate– as if all he needed was to evoke Ace and ask to join right off the bat, and then Yamato could just do…whatever for the remainder of the arc. The bulk of his actual paneltime in the story being tied to helping Momonosuke and a fillerish-feeling bomb-removal becomes totally irrelevant a way to run out the clock to the end of the arc because the “work” has already been done. The Ace-Yamato flashback might’ve been hyper-abridged and awkward, but it conveyed the clues it needed, and that’s enough, supposedly.
Nevertheless theres still a disconnect for many, with an oft-stated expectation that Yamato would get more exposure in a more fully featured flashback…or as part of Kaidous flashback…Kaidous PROPER flashback…
And Yamato might get such exposure, and might very well join, but its also entirely possible that he’ll join based on nothing more than this, because that’s just Odas current writing style.
This might come off as wishful thinking to you but I am convinced Oda is saving Yamato's introduction to the crew for a special big moment. There were just too many moments in the arc where Yamato could have naturally interacted with some of the crew and Oda went out of his way to avoid and even tease it. Dunno what it could be but I think Oda has a plan in that regard.
Even if the "just wait and see, this surely isn't it" stance (which has been invoked A LOT in Wano) is proven right, that'd still leave the question of what Yamatos 70 chapters of milling about Onagashima were supposed to accomplish for him as a future crewmate, nor would it make stuff like the hyper condensed Ace-Yamato flashback (Kaidou is grocery shopping?? Quick Ace, save the apparently kidnapped children! Oh no, not the super important but just introduced dragon statue!) any less sweaty.
That summed up my feelings better than I could.
I'd only add that even though the pacing of the story has been wonky for a while, basically for the entirety of post-TS… When Oda has wanted to fully flesh out a character he has always taken the time to do so. Just look at Law.
Wouldn't a character technically more important than Law warrant a similar treatment? Instead of whatever it is that Yamato's gotten up until now.
Even Jinbe, his joining may have been rocky indeed but he got special moments with the crew every time he appeared. The Amazon Lily scene with Luffy, Nami forgiving him, the blood transfusion, him quitting Big Mom's crew at the tea party and then taking the helm of the ship for the entirety of a long chase scene...
Yamato got nothing comparable to that. Yamato's mostly gotten text, to be honest.
The text is there for sure though, but... Eh, I'm remaining skeptical for now
The thing with Oda teasing an interaction between Yamato and the Straw Hats is that it's bordering the same "It's been suspiciously hinted at and will totally happen soon, guys!" argument that's been brought up for other candidates and which has always bothered me in their cases. I'd like to be careful to use the same rhetoric even though it's hard to ignore the confirmation bias that it actually does seem very deliberate
Regarding Yamato's bluntness: It's hard for any new candidate to follow Robin, Franky and Jimbei who have all been outliers in their own distinctive ways, but don't forget that Brook was pretty much as obvious and in your face from his very first appearance and whose proper flashback also came after the climax. Granted, Brook actually has interactions with Straw Hats in his favor that Yamato doesn't
@Daz:
Even if the "just wait and see, this surely isn't it" stance (which has been invoked A LOT in Wano) is proven right, that'd still leave the question of what Yamatos 70 chapters of milling about Onagashima were supposed to accomplish for him as a future crewmate, nor would it make stuff like the hyper condensed Ace-Yamato flashback (Kaidou is grocery shopping?? Quick Ace, save the apparently kidnapped children! Oh no, not the super important but just introduced dragon statue!) any less sweaty.
That’s why I have my stance: I don’t think Yamato is joining. The story is not moving in that direction.
Oh, he can join, but, as you said, it’s a cheat. This arc is full of disappointing conclusions, it would just be another one. I just still think Oda is better than that.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
That’s why I have my stance: I don’t think Yamato is joining. The story is not moving in that direction.
Oh, he can join, but, as you said, it’s a cheat. This arc is full of disappointing conclusions, it would just be another one. I just still think Oda is better than that.
So it's gonna be "I either have it correct or the writing is bad because I connected the pieces incorrectly"?
Yamato would certainly be an awkward inclusion to the SHs if it happens (the usual formula just isn't in place here), he is a last-minute idea from Oda after all. But I don't agree with the idea that his inclusion would be a cheat on the reader, or even a "disappointing conclusion" when all the evidence was (clumsily placed) right in front of our eyes all along..
Regarding Yamato's bluntness: It's hard for any new candidate to follow Robin, Franky and Jimbei who have all been outliers in their own distinctive ways, but don't forget that Brook was pretty much as obvious and in your face from his very first appearance and whose proper flashback also came after the climax. Granted, Brook actually has interactions with Straw Hats in his favor that Yamato doesn't
Yamato joining as is would be like if Brook had announced his intentions to join, and then spent almost all of Thriller Bark palling around with Lola in the woods before joining at the end.
So it's gonna be "I either have it correct or the writing is bad because I connected the pieces incorrectly"?
Yamato would certainly be an awkward inclusion to the SHs if it happens (the usual formula just isn't in place here), he is a last-minute idea from Oda after all. But I don't agree with the idea that his inclusion would be a cheat on the reader, or even a "disappointing conclusion" when all the evidence was (clumsily placed) right in front of our eyes all along..
No, it's about how the story presented itself. Nothing justifies spending so much time with Momonosuke and purposely avoiding any meeting and interaction with the Straw Hats just to do a 180 at the last minute.
And I see I'm not the only one that feels that way. A lot of people have manifested the same thoughts, even among those who think Yamato will join, as is the case with Daz.
–---------------------------
There's something else to add as to why I don't think Yamato is joining. As the story progresses week to week, I set up a few checkpoints as flags that confirm or deny my expectations.
For instance, when Momonosuke and Luffy returned to Onigashima and we get a chapter ending with them and Yamato together against Kaido, I thought to myself: "Ok, this is a perfect crossroads. They will fight together, and we can see if Yamato gets closer to Luffy or Momonosuke. This is a good chance to see some chemistry between Yamato and his maybe future captain." And then Luffy sent Yamato off with Momo immediately. There were several others over the course of the story, and it kept checking on Yamato bonding with Momonosuke rather than the Straw Hats.
After all, I didn't come up with the "guardian spirit of Wano" thing. Oda did.
I didn't come up with Yamato wondering if he could become a samurai. Oda did.
And so on.
But one of those checkpoints I had set up was that at some moment Yamato would face the question: does Wano need to be guarded? And then there was this exchange that ends with Yamato realising something, but we never saw what conclusion he reached:
This feels like a pretty big moment that will be followed-up in the epilogue.
Another checkpoint that I'm waiting to see in the coming weeks is if/how Yamato will react once he sees Wano for the first time in 20 years. Because people insist he was trapped in Wano, but he was not, he was trapped in Onigashima. When he last saw Wano, the place was still mostly pristine, it was after Oden's death that Orochi sped up faction construction and degraded the environment. Yamato has never seen Wano in its current state, it's not the place he remembers. So, his reaction to that, and what kind of expressions and thoughts he will manifest (if any) will also be a good sign of his ultimate decision.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
@Daz:
My Yamato opinion remains the same: I see a high likelihood of him joining, but can’t say I would consider the road to said outcome smooth.
Yamatos “Case” has a lot of factors going for it, but a lot of these are just so…blunt. Stuff like the connection to Ace, the appearance on volume 100, stating up front that he wants to leave and so on are all valid “clues” for Yamato joining, but they’re also wildly different compared to stuff like Frankys whole Sea Train escapade with Sanji and Usopp or Brook putting off a veritable showcase of personality in front of the entire crew.
Ultimately, I can’t help but see it as Oda deploying a sort of “Cheat code” for making Yamato a crewmate– as if all he needed was to evoke Ace and ask to join right off the bat, and then Yamato could just do…whatever for the remainder of the arc. The bulk of his actual paneltime in the story being tied to helping Momonosuke and a fillerish-feeling bomb-removal becomes totally irrelevant a way to run out the clock to the end of the arc because the “work” has already been done. The Ace-Yamato flashback might’ve been hyper-abridged and awkward, but it conveyed the clues it needed, and that’s enough, supposedly.
Nevertheless theres still a disconnect for many, with an oft-stated expectation that Yamato would get more exposure in a more fully featured flashback…or as part of Kaidous flashback…Kaidous PROPER flashback…
And Yamato might get such exposure, and might very well join, but its also entirely possible that he’ll join based on nothing more than this, because that’s just Odas current writing style.
That's why i'm saying that "betting" on Yamato joining has nothing to do with him being a good or well written charachter or the writing around his introduction not being extremely clunky and rushed. It's just that everything we got about him just points to that outcome, and if anythng else happens we couldn't help but go "wait… so what was that all about? Why was he in the story at all??".
Keeping the Franky parallel, imagine if intead of appearing in W7 and having all that agency throughout the then-biggest saga of the story, he was introduced only after our heroes got to EL, let's say he was captured by the remaining CP9 on another island but escaped and joined the strawhat raid insisting he wanted to sail with them and build their ship, all because his teacher was roger's carpenter and he heard about Luffy from someone.
That's what Yamato got, basically. It was far from ideal and fels completely shoehorned at the last possible minute, but you can't really see that charachter going anywhere else and make sense imho.
I've never considered it until now, but this could be additional evidence for Yamato needing to stay with Momonosuke. He might want to open the borders but not be physically or mentally mature enough to lead this change.
And as many people (inc myself) have pointed out….this is something that Yamato has been consistently shown to do (inspire, motivate and supervise) throughout their relationship. In fact Yamato is the ONLY one other than Luffy that has pushed Momonosuke, even though multiple people, including the scabbards have had a chance to do this.
And not just since Punk Hazard, but even in flashbacks from over 20 years ago.
I wonder if Oda will find a way to communicate the fact that Yamato will be the last one. Either with the title of the joining chapter or by inserting a flashback panel of that "10" crewmate line by Luffy and reminding his readers of that goal.
It has to be a bit "meta" since Luffy himself will never say that the crew is complete.
I've never considered it until now, but this could be additional evidence for Yamato needing to stay with Momonosuke. He might want to open the borders but not be physically or mentally mature enough to lead this change.
And as many people (inc myself) have pointed out….this is something that Yamato has been consistently shown to do (inspire, motivate and supervise) throughout their relationship. In fact Yamato is the ONLY one other than Luffy that has pushed Momonosuke, even though multiple people, including the scabbards have had a chance to do this.
And not just since Punk Hazard, but even in flashbacks from over 20 years ago.
My thoughts exactly.
People seem to think I just want Yamato out of the race, so I find excuses to support him not joining, but it's nothing like that. While I'm not the biggest Yamato fan (he's simply uninteresting to me), we've been following him for 70 chapters, and as it goes there were piles of moments that could draw him closer to the crew, but instead take a turn in the other direction. Since I don't think Oda is the kind of writer to push a story in one direction just to "subvert expectations" in the last minute, I think there's a very real chance that Yamato is not meant to join.
Oda did say he wanted readers to hate Franky initially.
@Daz:
Yamato joining as is would be like if Brook had announced his intentions to join, and then spent almost all of Thriller Bark palling around with Lola in the woods before joining at the end.
That makes it sound like the only thing Yamato has done so far is chilling with Momo somewhere far away from the action. Take Brook hanging out with Lola but while running across the entirety of Thriller Bark several times, facing off against Moria for a couple of chapters, having several subplots for his own that keep diverging and converging with Lola's whom Luffy ordered him to protect, assuming that Lola had a much more important role during the arc. Still kinda weird but not completely out of left field
That makes it sound like the only thing Yamato has done so far is chilling with Momo somewhere far away from the action. Take Brook hanging out with Lola but while running across the entirety of Thriller Bark several times, facing off against Moria for a couple of chapters, having several subplots for his own that keep diverging and converging with Lola's whom Luffy ordered him to protect, assuming that Lola had a much more important role during the arc. Still kinda weird but not completely out of left field
I can amend it to Yamato joining is like you have Brook meet Luffy only, say he wants to join, then take out every single bit of Brook having fun interplay with the crew and his status as unquestioned emotional focal point of the arc and swap them for Brook running back and forth across Thriller Bark playing support for other characters and Very Important Errands until the climax was done, then Brook joins.
Its not that Yamato hasn't had anything to do, its that it feels like it hasn't been a top priority to showcase Yamato as the character of Wano, to center his story specifically.
That makes it sound like the only thing Yamato has done so far is chilling with Momo somewhere far away from the action. Take Brook hanging out with Lola but while running across the entirety of Thriller Bark several times, facing off against Moria for a couple of chapters, having several subplots for his own that keep diverging and converging with Lola's whom Luffy ordered him to protect, assuming that Lola had a much more important role during the arc. Still kinda weird but not completely out of left field
Well, if we are going to compare the two, then also add that Lola is the daughter of Brook's long-lost hero and true heir of Thriller Bark, and Thriller Bark is a land Brook wants to free from Moria because it will be extremely important to the fate of the world according to his hero.
Thing is, even though the character was introduced kinda suddenly, as of now there was plenty of space to explore Yamato better. He had a lot of screentime.
Have him interact with the crew, make him more central to Luffy's motivations for taking down Kaido, give him a proper flashback more in line with the actual standards… Instead he got immediately sent to do sidequests completely separated from the crew, with the bombs subplot amounting to pretty much nothing. Didn't go through any character arc, mostly serving to make Momo go through a character arc instead... It's like if Chopper or Franky didn't change at all during their first arc and prompted changes into Kureha or Iceburg instead.
Like... This just isn't how you introduce a main character to me. And maybe Oda isn't writing Yamato like a main character because... he isn't a main character?
Wano isn't over yet but the rising action part of the arc is. If Yamato is actually joining and Oda really left all meaningful developments for later, well, that's something new which is fine but I hope he does a good job because up until now the character has never fully worked in my opinion
@Daz:
I can amend it to Yamato joining is like you have Brook meet Luffy only, say he wants to join, then take out every single bit of Brook having fun interplay with the crew and his status as unquestioned emotional focal point of the arc and swap them for Brook running back and forth across Thriller Bark playing support for other characters and Very Important Errands until the climax was done, then Brook joins.
Its not that Yamato hasn't had anything to do, its that it feels like it hasn't been a top priority to showcase Yamato as the character of Wano, to center his story specifically.
But don't forget that Brook was also secretly friends with… Ace as well, for a lack of a better analogy, that Ace wanted to kick Moria's ass anyway who just happened to not be home and now that he kicked the bucket Brook has been waiting in complete solitude for Luffy specifically ever since.
Anyway, we're digressing and getting lost in the details, trying to find perfect analogies. Your point was that most things in Yamato's are very blunt compared to Franky while at the same time kind of lacking compared to similarly blunt Brook. Ever since the whole Joy Boy drama and with increasingly more people voicing their concern with how Oda has handled Wano and Onigashima I think it's easy to chalk the way Yamato was handled up to "there was a good idea that landed flat due to terrible execution, but we somehow got there in the end", just like the rest of the arc.
Thing is, even though the character was introduced kinda suddenly, as of now there was plenty of space to explore Yamato better. He had a lot of screentime.
Have him interact with the crew, make him more central to Luffy's motivations for taking down Kaido, give him a proper flashback more in line with the actual standards… Instead he got immediately sent to do sidequests completely separated from the crew, with the bombs subplot amounting to pretty much nothing. Didn't go through any character arc, mostly serving to make Momo go through a character arc instead... It's like if Chopper or Franky didn't change at all during their first arc and prompted changes into Kureha or Iceburg instead.Like... This just isn't how you introduce a main character to me. And maybe Oda isn't writing Yamato like a main character because... he isn't a main character?
Wano isn't over yet but the rising action part of the arc is. If Yamato is actually joining and Oda really left all meaningful developments for later, well, that's something new which is fine but I hope he does a good job because up until now the character has never fully worked in my opinion
I got a lot of flak a few months ago when I said Yamato's role in the story was to enable other characters' stories.
We need someone to have Oden's journal.
We need someone to protect Momonosuke.
We need someone to stall Kaido once Luffy is thrown outside.
We need someone to teach Momo how to be a dragon.
We need someone to be Momo's mentor figure while Luffy is busy.
So, someone was made to fill those blanks. How do you make people interested in such a character? Create big expectations about him.
I do see Yamato having a character arc, it's just does not seem to be the one people want. If it's meant to make him fond of Momonosuke and realise his role is as Wano's "Guardian Spirit", every choice so far makes sense. He starts in Point A ("I want to go to the sea") and ends in Point B ("I see this is my place after all"). Wants vs Needs. If not, then it's questionable while he got those roles in the first place. His character arc should have been something else.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
I got a lot of flak a few months ago when I said Yamato's role in the story was to enable other characters' stories.
We need someone to have Oden's journal.
We need someone to protect Momonosuke.
We need someone to stall Kaido once Luffy is thrown outside.
We need someone to teach Momo how to be a dragon.
We need someone to be Momo's mentor figure while Luffy is busy.So, someone was made to fill those blanks. How do you make people interested in such a character? Create big expectations about him.
I do see Yamato having a character arc, it's just does not seem to be the one people want. If it's meant to make him fond of Momonosuke and realise his role is as Wano's "Guardian Spirit", every choice so far makes sense. He starts in Point A ("I want to go to the sea") and ends in Point B ("I see this is my place after all"). Wants vs Needs. If not, then it's questionable while he got those roles in the first place. His character arc should have been something else.
You know, given his background (20 years of isolation and suffering, with pretending to be another person being the only thing to keep him sane) I thought Yamato would be a little too naive, or a little too nutty, or a little too sheltered or all of the above. And he was like that in the first few chapters, but then as soon as he met Franky he was basically the most mature person in the entire Onigashima already and then he went on to become Momo's mentor. Even the Oden thing was kinda dropped.
It all felt a little artificial, I don't know how to say it
@Daz:
My Yamato opinion remains the same: I see a high likelihood of him joining, but can’t say I would consider the road to said outcome smooth.
Yamatos “Case” has a lot of factors going for it, but a lot of these are just so…blunt. Stuff like the connection to Ace, the appearance on volume 100, stating up front that he wants to leave and so on are all valid “clues” for Yamato joining, but they’re also wildly different compared to stuff like Frankys whole Sea Train escapade with Sanji and Usopp or Brook putting off a veritable showcase of personality in front of the entire crew.
Ultimately, I can’t help but see it as Oda deploying a sort of “Cheat code” for making Yamato a crewmate– as if all he needed was to evoke Ace and ask to join right off the bat, and then Yamato could just do…whatever for the remainder of the arc. The bulk of his actual paneltime in the story being tied to helping Momonosuke and a fillerish-feeling bomb-removal becomes totally irrelevant a way to run out the clock to the end of the arc because the “work” has already been done. The Ace-Yamato flashback might’ve been hyper-abridged and awkward, but it conveyed the clues it needed, and that’s enough, supposedly.
Nevertheless theres still a disconnect for many, with an oft-stated expectation that Yamato would get more exposure in a more fully featured flashback…or as part of Kaidous flashback…Kaidous PROPER flashback…
And Yamato might get such exposure, and might very well join, but its also entirely possible that he’ll join based on nothing more than this, because that’s just Odas current writing style.
Even Jinbe was introduced being an associate of Ace right off the bat, but also emphasized he wouldn’t befriend him just because he’s Ace’s brother. Luffy didn’t even bond with him or Robin a whole lot before joining either, so I’d suppose that he’d save most straw hat interactions for Yamato by the end of the arc, and make it more different from Robin’s case by giving a really super involved role alongside Luffy in the next arc, even more so than Robin fighting Yama, so I guess he would once again counting on us to be patient despite how close the ending is at this point.
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@TLC:
This might come off as wishful thinking to you but I am convinced Oda is saving Yamato's introduction to the crew for a special big moment. There were just too many moments in the arc where Yamato could have naturally interacted with some of the crew and Oda went out of his way to avoid and even tease it. Dunno what it could be but I think Oda has a plan in that regard.
Agreed, if it was really irrelevant for Yamato to interact with the other Straw Hats on the basis that she wouldn’t join after all, then I’d doubt Oda would go so far as to have Yamato come and leave just as when other Straw Hats are coming and going, as opposed to cases where it would have been more convenient such as Yamato taking down CP0 members for Robin as opposed to Drake doing it.
You know, given his background (20 years of isolation and suffering, with pretending to be another person being the only thing to keep him sane) I thought Yamato would be a little too naive, or a little too nutty, or a little too sheltered or all of the above. And he was like that in the first few chapters, but then as soon as he met Franky he was basically the most mature person in the entire Onigashima already and then he went on to become Momo's mentor. Even the Oden thing was kinda dropped.
It all felt a little artificial, I don't know how to say it
Yeah, I agree with that feeling.
This could be solved with a proper flashback and mentor figure explaining how he got education and honed his skills.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
Yeah, I agree with that feeling.
This could be solved with a proper flashback and mentor figure explaining how he got education and honed his skills.
The three daimyo taught Yams to read. Oden's journal shaped his worldview. Kaidou taught him to fight.
Unless and until we get something to imply a secondary skillset (presumably to make the "What's his ship role!?!" people happy), I don't think Yamato really needs another mentor figure.
@Daz:
I can amend it to Yamato joining is like you have Brook meet Luffy only, say he wants to join, then take out every single bit of Brook having fun interplay with the crew and his status as unquestioned emotional focal point of the arc and swap them for Brook running back and forth across Thriller Bark playing support for other characters and Very Important Errands until the climax was done, then Brook joins.
Its not that Yamato hasn't had anything to do, its that it feels like it hasn't been a top priority to showcase Yamato as the character of Wano, to center his story specifically.
I get your point, and I agree that Yamato's emotional role in the arc feels a little weird, but I disagree with the original analogy of Brook/Lola. Brook agreed to join at the start of Thriller Bark but he didn't know Luffy, so could he really have had belief in the Straw Hats? His interactions with the crew during Thriller Bark was needed to establish his belief in the crew.
Yamato already believes in Luffy, and by extension, the Straw Hats. Yamato knew Ace and Ace was great, but Ace couldn't stop talking about Luffy's greatness. Yamato knows Luffy's true dream which is the same words written in Oden's journal that were spoken by the Pirate King. Yamato has been waiting (specifically) for Luffy for two years. The belief in the crew is already there, which was different with Brook.
Although I'm "Yamato for Straw Hat", I think that there are valid arguments on both sides. Particularly - given what we just learned about Zoans - Yamato's fruit being considered "Wano's guardian" is a valid concern.
Although I'm "Yamato for Straw Hat", I think that there are valid arguments on both sides. Particularly - given what we just learned about Zoans - Yamato's fruit being considered "Wano's guardian" is a valid concern.
Except for the facts that the Okuchi no Makami is nowhere to be found across Wano, i.e. no prior mention or statues or anything to indicate it's an important deity for any Wanoese, that it's a guardian deity that is easily replaceable by educated and strong people, and that the point was made by the villain of the entire saga.
