I think we will get everyone vs Kaido soon, so it’s your best chance for Yamato interacting with anyone other than Momo…
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)
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I think we will get everyone vs Kaido soon, so it’s your best chance for Yamato interacting with anyone other than Momo…
Or you know, the entire remaining series as well…
Whatever this imaginary time limit for interactins comes from(?).
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Or you know, the entire remaining series as well…
Whatever this imaginary time limit for interactins comes from(?).
Prob from the hyped up care towards Momo and his story, as if he'll force Yamato to be on Wano for the rest of her life since he feels he's incapable of being a good shogun otherwise.
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It seems to me that Yamato has quite as many issues as Carrot does, and in many of the same areas. They both have pretty underbaked dreams, and their personal tragedies aren't exactly the most elaborate.
They both have powers that cross over into other crew members, both had big climactic battles yanked away from them, both have emotional ties that threaten to hold them back. And despite all that, they both have blatant indicators that point to them going with the crew: -
It seems to me that Yamato has quite as many issues as Carrot does, and in many of the same areas. They both have pretty underbaked dreams, and their personal tragedies aren't exactly the most elaborate.
They both have powers that cross over into other crew members, both had big climactic battles yanked away from them, both have emotional ties that threaten to hold them back. And despite all that, they both have blatant indicators that point to them going with the crew:https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220214/988bfd6440abf4db6af9ee6035a8f10f.jpg
I find it interesting how Carrot and Yamato are at times talked about together as joining as if to say both are very similar, if not, the same, even though Carrot grew up in an environment where pretty much everyone accepted her and consistently had friends, whereas Yamato didn't have a lot of people accepting her, and that the ones that did accept her later got killed, and before she met Luffy too.
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It seems to me that Yamato has quite as many issues as Carrot does, and in many of the same areas. They both have pretty underbaked dreams, and their personal tragedies aren't exactly the most elaborate.
They both have powers that cross over into other crew members, both had big climactic battles yanked away from them, both have emotional ties that threaten to hold them back. And despite all that, they both have blatant indicators that point to them going with the crew:[qimg]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220214/988bfd6440abf4db6af9ee6035a8f10f.jpg[/qimg]
As far as underbaked dreams go I would say Brooks takes the cake. While I understand the romantic implication of ķeeping a promise after more then 50 years all he has to do is just sail back to the start of the Grand Line. He literally doesn't have to be part of the voyage to make the new Pirate King to achieve that.
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As far as underbaked dreams go I would say Brooks takes the cake. While I understand the romantic implication of ķeeping a promise after more then 50 years all he has to do is just sail back to the start of the Grand Line. He literally doesn't have to be part of the voyage to make the new Pirate King to achieve that.
Tru dat, no doubt.
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Brook's promise was to meet up with Laboon by coming from the other side of Reverse Mountain which is synonymous with making a full circumnavigation of the Grand Line/globe which was synonymous with being part of the Pirate King's crew who were the very first group to have achieved this.
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It's kinda funny how people still bring up "Brook could just sail backwards, duh" 14 years after this argument was raised first (and already shot down). You still haven't understood his dream.
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As far as underbaked dreams go I would say Brooks takes the cake. While I understand the romantic implication of ķeeping a promise after more then 50 years all he has to do is just sail back to the start of the Grand Line. He literally doesn't have to be part of the voyage to make the new Pirate King to achieve that.
Brook of course dedicates himself to supporting Luffy, either through providing backup as a fighter or being a musician, but yeah, even with that said, Luffy is the one providing more direct relevance to Brook's story, since he and the rest of the crew will be the ones to help him reunite with Laboon one day, since he couldn't do that back then due to being trapped.
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watch brook's real dream to be revealed that he wants to learn the song of liberation which somehow coincides with Luffy's goal. Like how Jinbe's vague one does. :ninja:
Also Yamato lacks like 200 chapters of not being a focus at all with 0 development before it actually puts him on equal footing to carrot and if that happens then I'd agree with the comparison.
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Brook of course dedicates himself to supporting Luffy, either through providing backup as a fighter or being a musician, but yeah, even with that said, Luffy is the one providing more direct relevance to Brook's story, since he and the rest of the crew will be the ones to help him reunite with Laboon one day, since he couldn't do that back then due to being trapped.
While all true, doesn't change what I originally said. He can easily achieve the dream by sailing back. Supporting Luffy has nothing to do with that dream. He does it out of gratefulness as you have just explained yourself.
Compare that to dreams like Zoro's, Nami's, Sanji's or Robin's who require to actually sea as much of the world as possible to find what they seek. It's the exact opposite to Brook.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Brook's promise was to meet up with Laboon by coming from the other side of Reverse Mountain which is synonymous with making a full circumnavigation of the Grand Line/globe which was synonymous with being part of the Pirate King's crew who were the very first group to have achieved this.
! [qimg]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220321/17e424a4786ea4ecbeffa5f7718269c3.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220321/4b714412b5704282e395df4e0b7179f0.jpg[/qimg]It's kinda funny how people still bring up "Brook could just sail backwards, duh" 14 years after this argument was raised first (and already shot down). You still haven't understood his dream.
I'm not denying the fact that he promised to come back that he wanted to meet Laboon after sailing the seas. I'm saying that the goal to return to the one he left behind in itself is kind of halfbaked compared to the other Strawhats, who all aim to find or achieve something on their voyage. Brook doesn't have that. The only tangible thing described as goal he already had before he entered the Grand Line to begin with. The additional caviat of needing to sail the Grand Line doesn't make him meet Laboon more then just sailing back. It's funny how people even after 14 years think that this in any way shape or form is comparable to someone who literally has to sail the entire world to create her own world map.
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Or you know, the entire remaining series as well…
Whatever this imaginary time limit for interactins comes from(?).
Part of the only way they can justify their stances. Made up deadlines and limits for an ongoing story that consistently has characters from past arcs show up and interact.
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Luffy postponed a toast, and Yamato's been waiting for one, if we should wait a moment for Yamato to interact with the SH's, it most likely be that one, especially since by that time, Momo would have already met and stuck with Hiyori.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
As far as underbaked dreams go I would say Brooks takes the cake. While I understand the romantic implication of ķeeping a promise after more then 50 years all he has to do is just sail back to the start of the Grand Line. He literally doesn't have to be part of the voyage to make the new Pirate King to achieve that.
But we, as readers, know that the one thing that would make Laboon uberly happy, is reuniting with the other whales, which most likely will be only achieved by taking down the Reverse Mountain.
So is just that Brook doesnt know it, but he's in the right path to achieve his and Laboon's greatest dreams.
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Luffy postponed a toast, and Yamato's been waiting for one, if we should wait a moment for Yamato to interact with the SH's, it most likely be that one, especially since by that time, Momo would have already met and stuck with Hiyori.
Ah, didn't even think of that: that the story purposefully delayed the big toast with Jinbe partially because of an 11th member joining.
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Ah, didn't even think of that: that the story purposefully delayed the big toast with Jinbe partially because of an 11th member joining.
I've been saying that from the very moment he came back.
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I've been saying that from the very moment he came back.
Is one of the things I claimed u nailed it, but just for the wrong character.
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So could it at least be widely agree enough that Yamato's dream would be to open the borders for Joy Boy, since we know Oden wanted to open the borders from the start, and that it's becoming apparent enough that he wanted to open them specifically for Joy Boy and his return?
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As far as underbaked dreams go I would say Brooks takes the cake. While I understand the romantic implication of ķeeping a promise after more then 50 years all he has to do is just sail back to the start of the Grand Line. He literally doesn't have to be part of the voyage to make the new Pirate King to achieve that.
If he just wants to see Laboon he can do that, sure. But the promise, that Brook and the whale has waited 50 years for, was for him to make a round trip and come from the other side.
You could also say that Usopp's done good enough to count for his dream and can head home, he's brave and has a bunch of stories. The same stories he already told Kaya but still.
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Yamato's dream of wanting to save the world by setting it free is pretty damn cool and the most shounen/heroic dream within the series. It is also a dream that overlaps with all the other characters (Luffy, Robin, Nami, Jinbe, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Franky, Zoro, Brook). For Yamato to achieve that dream, he NEEDS to sail alongside Luffy who is the boy of destiny carrying the will of Joy Boy. Laugh Tale is a required destination on the path to such an end.
Yamato wants to be Oden because he wants to carry on the dream Oden had of saving the world - a dream the Kozuki clan closed their borders for 800 years ago in order to survive against the "great external power" i.e. the World Government/Tenryuubito/Im. A dream the Poneglyphs were designed to keep alive within the messages left behind. Yamato has been waiting for Luffy because ever since he came to a realization two years ago after Ace's death, he understood that in order to change the current world and continue what Oden was unable to complete, Luffy is required. Yamato's dream doesn't stop with Luffy liberating Wano, which is why he has constantly and repeatedly been expressing how he wishes to leave alongside Luffy. Yamato's dream of sailing the seas and having adventures has evidently changed since Ace's death. Yamato now seeks something greater and more overarching than his own selfish desires. This is why Yamato has made efforts to protect Momonosuke, hold back Kaido, and continue fighting despite the hopelessness currently engulfing the Samurai within Wano. Kaido represents what Yamato is fighting against now and this is why Yamato has chosen not to leave the nation until Kaido is dealt with. Like with the rest of the Straw Hat Pirates, Ace's death changed how Yamato viewed the world and the direction he chose to traverse. In contrast to Kaido wishing to destroy and enslave the world with violence (by claiming "One Piece" and the Ancient Weapons), Yamato wishes to save and free the world (by freeing Wano and assisting Luffy fulfill his role as Joy Boy). This explains the reason for Yamato resisting so strongly against Kaido, because he believes in freedom and the value of life.
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I find Yamato's dream and purpose to be quite well defined relative to the position we are at within the current story and the path Oda has laid down for the future of One Piece. As Joy Boy becomes more prominent within the story and Ancients Giants and Oni become the focus, Yamato's relevance and intimacy to those threads will only increase. This is just the beginning of Yamato's story.And honestly, I can't help but find Yamato to be incredibly badass.
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Luffy postponed a toast, and Yamato's been waiting for one, if we should wait a moment for Yamato to interact with the SH's, it most likely be that one, especially since by that time, Momo would have already met and stuck with Hiyori.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But we, as readers, know that the one thing that would make Laboon uberly happy, is reuniting with the other whales, which most likely will be only achieved by taking down the Reverse Mountain.
So is just that Brook doesnt know it, but he's in the right path to achieve his and Laboon's greatest dreams.
If he just wants to see Laboon he can do that, sure. But the promise, that Brook and the whale has waited 50 years for, was for him to make a round trip and come from the other side.
You could also say that Usopp's done good enough to count for his dream and can head home, he's brave and has a bunch of stories. The same stories he already told Kaya but still.
I get what you guys are saying and I don't disagree that is not a goal. But I consider it to halfbaked compared to some other dreams if the Strawhats. Yes, he wants to see Laboon after crossing the seas. But at the end of the day seeing Laboon is not something he hasn't done before (altough he hasn't seen adult Laboon).. The other Strawhats are looking for something they don't have yet and they are on an adventure trying to get that. Brook already he didn't enter the Grand Line to meet Laboon. He entered it for an adventure (which is fine). I repeat, I get that there's a promise but just the act of meeting Laboon can be done without having to travel. Completing a world map, finding the true history, finding All Blue and One Piece, becoming the worlds strongest swordsman or making sure the dream ship can sail around the world on the other hand require the crew to complete their voyage. That's why I consider it half baked in comparison. Doesn't mean it's less of a dream for Brook himself.
As far as Usopp is concerned, I actually find him and Chopper to be a close second to Brook in terms of goals. The reason why second because they do have a tangible dream that requires them to see more if the world. But it loses a bit oomph to me because you cannot clearly define when you have become a brave warrior of the sea as that is a matter of interpretation which differs from person to person. Same with Chopper becoming a doctor that can cure any disease. How far does this go? Just sicknesses or does this include death too? While death is not a disease throughout history medics, quacks and alchemist have always tried to overcome death or at least postpone it. Does Chopper want to go down this road too or not? Personally I don't think so but his wish is still something that is open for interpretation. Again, Nani's is simpler a complete map of the world is a complete map of the world. If it's only mostly complete it's still incomplete. That's clear to understand.
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His dream was to sail around the world. Not to go down the street and back.
Keep in mind its also a promise is also to his entire dead crew, not just the whale. They all died wanting to achieve that round trip.
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Again, nothing wrong with that. But still half baked compared to others who sail the world with the clear aim to get something specific out of it.
Also it doesn't help that during his flashback he was thinking about Laboon a little bit too often for my taste. We get only little glimpses of his Grand Line adventure. We don't need to get shown several times how much he misses him in such a small amount of pages as it takes away from him actually enjoying his voyage. I felt like "if you constantly go on yammering about Laboon perhaps you shouldn't be on the ship in the first place". I get why it's there, but it was too much for the little time a flashback has.
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Yamato's dream of wanting to save the world by setting it free is pretty damn cool and the most shounen/heroic dream within the series. It is also a dream that overlaps with all the other characters (Luffy, Robin, Nami, Jinbe, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Franky, Zoro, Brook). For Yamato to achieve that dream, he NEEDS to sail alongside Luffy who is the boy of destiny carrying the will of Joy Boy. Laugh Tale is a required destination on the path to such an end.
Yamato wants to be Oden because he wants to carry on the dream Oden had of saving the world - a dream the Kozuki clan closed their borders for 800 years ago in order to survive against the "great external power" i.e. the World Government/Tenryuubito/Im. A dream the Poneglyphs were designed to keep alive within the messages left behind. Yamato has been waiting for Luffy because ever since he came to a realization two years ago after Ace's death, he understood that in order to change the current world and continue what Oden was unable to complete, Luffy is required. Yamato's dream doesn't stop with Luffy liberating Wano, which is why he has constantly and repeatedly been expressing how he wishes to leave alongside Luffy. Yamato's dream of sailing the seas and having adventures has evidently changed since Ace's death. Yamato now seeks something greater and more overarching than his own selfish desires. This is why Yamato has made efforts to protect Momonosuke, hold back Kaido, and continue fighting despite the hopelessness currently engulfing the Samurai within Wano. Kaido represents what Yamato is fighting against now and this is why Yamato has chosen not to leave the nation until Kaido is dealt with. Like with the rest of the Straw Hat Pirates, Ace's death changed how Yamato viewed the world and the direction he chose to traverse. In contrast to Kaido wishing to destroy and enslave the world with violence (by claiming "One Piece" and the Ancient Weapons), Yamato wishes to save and free the world (by freeing Wano and assisting Luffy fulfill his role as Joy Boy). This explains the reason for Yamato resisting so strongly against Kaido, because he believes in freedom and the value of life.
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I find Yamato's dream and purpose to be quite well defined relative to the position we are at within the current story and the path Oda has laid down for the future of One Piece. As Joy Boy becomes more prominent within the story and Ancients Giants and Oni become the focus, Yamato's relevance and intimacy to those threads will only increase. This is just the beginning of Yamato's story.And honestly, I can't help but find Yamato to be incredibly badass.
I think it would be pretty valiant if Yamato's main dream turned out to be freeing all the slaves in the world, and dances with joy upon achieving that, in parallel to Oden's dance.
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If Yamato doesn’t join do we go back to believing in the 2.9 devil fruit theory
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While all true, doesn't change what I originally said. He can easily achieve the dream by sailing back. Supporting Luffy has nothing to do with that dream. He does it out of gratefulness as you have just explained yourself.Compare that to dreams like Zoro's, Nami's, Sanji's or Robin's who require to actually sea as much of the world as possible to find what they seek. It's the exact opposite to Brook.–- Update From New Post Merge ---I'm not denying the fact that he promised to come back that he wanted to meet Laboon after sailing the seas. I'm saying that the goal to return to the one he left behind in itself is kind of halfbaked compared to the other Strawhats, who all aim to find or achieve something on their voyage. Brook doesn't have that. The only tangible thing described as goal he already had before he entered the Grand Line to begin with. The additional caviat of needing to sail the Grand Line doesn't make him meet Laboon more then just sailing back. It's funny how people even after 14 years think that this in any way shape or form is comparable to someone who literally has to sail the entire world to create her own world map.
Which part of "complete circumnavigation that no one else but the Pirate King's crew has achieved so far" did you not understand?
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Which part of "complete circumnavigation that no one else but the Pirate King's crew has achieved so far" did you not understand?
And which part of "the other Strawhats try to find or achieve something on their voyage they didn't have at the beginning while Brook doesn't" did you not understand? See, I can play that game too.
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And which part of "the other Strawhats try to find or achieve something on their voyage they didn't have at the beginning while Brook doesn't" did you not understand? See, I can play that game too.
Oh, so Brook has sailed around the world before? My bad, I must have missed that.
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Which part of "complete circumnavigation that no one else but the Pirate King's crew has achieved so far" did you not understand?
I guess that is technically right but as audience my interest for Laboon is discovering his friends didnt forget him and on Brook side my interest is him managing to transfer the last message of his companions(the song) to kid they left behind.
The missing 50 years and message from the dead crew is the emotional core and compare to that if Brook did a round trip or not feel very secondary.
There's also that during the flashback they felt more like a merry band living for the day to day adventuring than a die hard we have to accomplish this goal or die trying so Brook wanting to continue feels more like a whim or why not than a dream. Recording that last song for Laboon. That's the hook to their future meeting.
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I guess that is technically right but as audience my interest for Laboon is discovering his friends didnt forget him and on Brook side my interest is him managing to transfer the last message of his companions(the song) to kid they left behind.
The missing 50 years and message from the dead crew is the emotional core and compare to that if Brook did a round trip or not feel very secondary.
There's also that during the flashback they felt more like a merry band living for the day to day adventuring than a die hard we have to accomplish this goal or die trying so Brook wanting to continue feels more like a whim or why not than a dream. Recording that last song for Laboon. That's the hook to their future meeting.
Oh definitely, the emotional gravitas of his goal doesn't stem from circling the globe. I'm mainly arguing against the "just go back, you don't need to be a part of the future Pirate King's crew" angle that I thought was put to rest one and a half decades ago, or that his dream is "half-baked" especially when he already conceded that roughly a third of the current crew's dreams are on par.
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Oh, so Brook has sailed around the world before? My bad, I must have missed that.
I find it very interesting how you deliberately cherry pick only the parts that you want to see and ignore important keywords within the very same sentence. I can understand how one would do that when reading through the wall of texts I tend to write. But if it happens in response to a single short sentence, it seems more like a conscious choice than anything else. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna engage in a discussion under such a premise. If you however wish to act less like a troll and more like an adult person, who can have a contructive discussion with someone who has a different opinion I'm all ears.
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What is even the point of that discussion tho.
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It started with Shift saying that both Carrot and Yamato have underbaked dreams to which I replied that as far as underbaked dreams for the Strawhat's go, Brook's takes the cake, which it is when compared to the other Strawhats or even to Carrot and Yamato.
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That's not even Carrot's main issue at the moment, but being treated as unimportant/irrelevant for over 130+ chapters its really whats hurting her the most and beyond repair.
Yamato's story arc is still on going and is still a main focus, she's good atm.
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If wanting to be be brave is a good enough goal to qualify to be on the crew, anything can work.
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While I don't think Brooks dream is as underbaked as Ivotas (that flashback is excellent and does a LOT to give it pathos), I can sympathise with the idea that it somehow feels a bit…lesser than the others. And not because the feat of it wouldn't be huge or the sentiment isn't nice, but simply because we -and the crew- have been there already, we've already seen it. Not all crewmembers have wholly original dreams (World map, universal doctor, ancient history etc), but for all of them meeting their goal would be a wholly fresh experience to them and us, even if its already been done (pirate king, worlds greatest swordsman, all blue, ship that reaches the end etc). I think Brooks dream is the only one where we know exactly what the endpoint is and looks like, and that can't help but take some of the oomph out of it.
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That's not even Carrot's main issue at the moment, but being treated as unimportant/irrelevant for over 130+ chapters its really whats hurting her the most and beyond repair.
Yamato's story arc is still on going and is still a main focus, she's good atm.
You were just talking about how imaginary time limits don't apply to Yamato and that there's the whole rest of the series to become friends with the crew. And yet Carrot's situation is the one beyond repair?
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You were just talking about how imaginary time limits don't apply to Yamato and that there's the whole rest of the series to become friends with the crew. And yet Carrot's situation is the one beyond repair?
Thing is, Luffy is 100% of the time the one deciding who joins, the others have no vote and voice in the matter.
So yeah, I'm not seeing whats the need to go talk to them at the moment, much less to impose time limits on something that wouldnt really stop her from joining.Whereas Carrot's case is just plain of a secondary charcater, its been so for 130+ chapters, she hasnt talked to that guy who has all the power on membership for like 4 years already.
I dont see one moment fixing all of that mistreatment, I dont think she'll get one either, and mostly cause it'll rather be anti-climatic, she's not that relevant, and the climax of Wano is nothing close to be about her.
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@Daz:
While I don't think Brooks dream is as underbaked as Ivotas (that flashback is excellent and does a LOT to give it pathos), I can sympathise with the idea that it somehow feels a bit…lesser than the others. And not because the feat of it wouldn't be huge or the sentiment isn't nice, but simply because we -and the crew- have been there already, we've already seen it. Not all crewmembers have wholly original dreams (World map, universal doctor, ancient history etc), but for all of them meeting their goal would be a wholly fresh experience to them and us, even if its already been done (pirate king, worlds greatest swordsman, all blue, ship that reaches the end etc). I think Brooks dream is the only one where we know exactly what the endpoint is and looks like, and that can't help but take some of the oomph out of it.
The thing that bothers me about the flashback is, that I don't know who Brook actually is. Like what makes him tick? What made him go to the Grand Line? How does it sepperate him from any other member of the Rumbar Pirates? I'm not saying that just having adventure is a bad thing. Far from it. It's an absolutely good reason to sail the seas. But in comparison it's lacking a bit something. The other Strawhats also want to sail the seas. But not just that. They all hope to get something out of it, that they don't have yet. Luffy wants to find One Piece, Zoro wants to become the strongest swordsman, Nami wants create her world map and so on, don't need to list them all. If they stop now, none of this can be achieved. No map, no All Blue, no Rio Poneglyph etc. For Brook however Laboon is there where he left him. He can meet him going backwards. I get that he promised to meet him after finishing the voyage but the point I'm making is that Brook doesn't get something he didn't have before already. One might say, that he gets a great adventure out of it, then the same applies to every other Strawhat too. But they also get something else they don't have yet. Brook doesn't.
And this is the weakness of the flashback. It works well at establishing the bond with Laboon. It does a good job at showing the tragedies that befell the crew, both the sickness that made Yorki & Co. leave as well as the way how they died. These are all good moments in their own right. However one thing the flashback doesn't do is show me who Brook or any other of the Rumbar Pirates are. Did someone want to become the strongest swordsman too? How about being the best sharpshooter? Perhaps someone wanted to get laid the most. Anything! They are just a big blob of pirates who are all exchangable in their desires. No one has a standout dream that makes them sail the Grand Line. They didn't go to the Grand Line so they could meet Laboon after they come back. They met him while they were already heading there. To what end?
I'm not saying that the call of adventure is a bad reason to go sailing. But it's a bit lackluster compared to the Strawhats who want more than just sailing. Nami wanted to draw a world map even before Arlong arrived. Sanji wanted to find All Blue before meeting Zeff etc. They all had dreams and wishes long before meeting Luffy and joining him on his grand voyage. They all had something they wanted that made them become pirates. Brook on the other hand is a blank slate in terms of what made him become a pirate. His flashback focuses on only Laboon and the tragedies. Neither of those give him a standout reason why he's a pirate. Sailing the entirity of the Grand Line is not a standout wish because that's literally what the entire crew wanted. Brook is just one of the many. Our focus as readers is on him but his goals and dreams have not been clearly distinguished from the rest of the crew. And to me, that very well makes his entire goal underbaked compared to the other Strawhats.
It would be different if he said that he wanted to write a great song about the voyage of the crew that did the impossible and conquered the Grand Line. That's something that is unique, requires him to sail the seas and gives him something at the end, he didn't have in the beginning. But he doesn't have something like this. It's fine if this doesn't bother you guys. But to me it just is something that Brook is lacking in comparison to the remaining crew.
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Thing is, Luffy is 100% of the time the one deciding who joins
A Databook basically summed it up:
"In general, there're two things deciding if a nakama is possibly joining: Timing and Luffy's Instinct." - https://aminoapps.com/c/one-piece/page/blog/databook-translation-read-them-all-important-informations/XMWr_dqHgu558dggJVmaY67Dnq5QRj4rKGcv
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The thing that bothers me about the flashback is, that I don't know who Brook actually is. Like what makes him tick? What made him go to the Grand Line? How does it sepperate him from any other member of the Rumbar Pirates? I'm not saying that just having adventure is a bad thing. Far from it. It's an absolutely good reason to sail the seas. But in comparison it's lacking a bit something. The other Strawhats also want to sail the seas. But not just that. They all hope to get something out of it, that they don't have yet. Luffy wants to find One Piece, Zoro wants to become the strongest swordsman, Nami wants create her world map and so on, don't need to list them all. If they stop now, none of this can be achieved. No map, no All Blue, no Rio Poneglyph etc. For Brook however Laboon is there where he left him. He can meet him going backwards. I get that he promised to meet him after finishing the voyage but the point I'm making is that Brook doesn't get something he didn't have before already. One might say, that he gets a great adventure out of it, then the same applies to every other Strawhat too. But they also get something else they don't have yet. Brook doesn't.
And this is the weakness of the flashback. It works well at establishing the bond with Laboon. It does a good job at showing the tragedies that befell the crew, both the sickness that made Yorki & Co. leave as well as the way how they died. These are all good moments in their own right. However one thing the flashback doesn't do is show me who Brook or any other of the Rumbar Pirates are. Did someone want to become the strongest swordsman too? How about being the best sharpshooter? Perhaps someone wanted to get laid the most. Anything! They are just a big blob of pirates who are all exchangable in their desires. No one has a standout dream that makes them sail the Grand Line. They didn't go to the Grand Line so they could meet Laboon after they come back. They met him while they were already heading there. To what end?
I'm not saying that the call of adventure is a bad reason to go sailing. But it's a bit lackluster compared to the Strawhats who want more than just sailing. Nami wanted to draw a world map even before Arlong arrived. Sanji wanted to find All Blue before meeting Zeff etc. They all had dreams and wishes long before meeting Luffy and joining him on his grand voyage. They all had something they wanted that made them become pirates. Brook on the other hand is a blank slate in terms of what made him become a pirate. His flashback focuses on only Laboon and the tragedies. Neither of those give him a standout reason why he's a pirate. Sailing the entirity of the Grand Line is not a standout wish because that's literally what the entire crew wanted. Brook is just one of the many. Our focus as readers is on him but his goals and dreams have not been clearly distinguished from the rest of the crew. And to me, that very well makes his entire goal underbaked compared to the other Strawhats.
It would be different if he said that he wanted to write a great song about the voyage of the crew that did the impossible and conquered the Grand Line. That's something that is unique, requires him to sail the seas and gives him something at the end, he didn't have in the beginning. But he doesn't have something like this. It's fine if this doesn't bother you guys. But to me it just is something that Brook is lacking in comparison to the remaining crew.
I get what you say about Brooks "true origins" being left very blank, but I guess it never bothered me so much because the flashback essentially is a second origin, for Brook as he is now? Which is a guy defined specifically by being the very last member of a ruined pirate crew, the guy specifically tasked with carrying on their legacy in their place. It doesn't bother me that he's not exceptional among the rumbar pirates because they're all gone, all compressed into Brook himself. And I also get what you're saying about the bond to Laboon being a tad overblown, but what sells the whole thing for me is that Brook has been stewing on the dashed hopes and dreams of all his friends for 50 years. 50 years of mind-crushing loneliness and complete isolation. The thought of completing the journey and fulfilling the promise to Laboon is literally the only thing Brook had to cling onto in terms of purpose for all that time, and ultimately the whole experience shapes who Brook is as a character in the present.
He's lacking in social etiquette and slightly mad due to his complete isolation of course in addition to being a skull-joking scaredycat, but also extremely principled about not being wasteful with life, and fiercely devoted to maintaining the last remnants he has of his dead friends and purpose. Brook low key comes out of Thriller Bark as one of the most fiercely principled and committed Straw hat members of all. -
I find it very interesting how you deliberately cherry pick only the parts that you want to see and ignore important keywords within the very same sentence. I can understand how one would do that when reading through the wall of texts I tend to write. But if it happens in response to a single short sentence, it seems more like a conscious choice than anything else. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna engage in a discussion under such a premise. If you however wish to act less like a troll and more like an adult person, who can have a contructive discussion with someone who has a different opinion I'm all ears.
Me replying to your one line statement "The other Straw Hats' goal is something they don't have" is not cherry picking now, is it? Or are there any other points in there that I haven't addressed?
But I can also dissect every bit of your posts regarding that topic, even if it is pointless as Monquito said. So this is for you:
! @Ivotas:
! > As far as underbaked dreams go I would say Brooks takes the cake. While I understand the romantic implication of ķeeping a promise after more then 50 years all he has to do is just sail back to the start of the Grand Line. He literally doesn't have to be part of the voyage to make the new Pirate King to achieve that.
! @Ivotas:
! > While all true, doesn't change what I originally said. He can easily achieve the dream by sailing back. Supporting Luffy has nothing to do with that dream. He does it out of gratefulness as you have just explained yourself.
! We've already gone over how Brook's dream is not just to see Laboon again, that sailing back shows a lack of understanding, and why he needs to be a part of the new Pirate King's crew to achieve his goal.
! @Ivotas:
! > Compare that to dreams like Zoro's, Nami's, Sanji's or Robin's who require to actually sea as much of the world as possible to find what they seek. It's the exact opposite to Brook.
! Zoro just needs to beat Mihawk, he doesn't need to see the entire world for that. He needs to get stronger, learn and refine his techniques and yadda yadda where meeting a whole variety of opponents is beneficial, sure, but he doesn't need to be with Luffy specifically. And again, Brook also needs to circle the globe for his dream.
! @Ivotas:
! > I'm not denying the fact that he promised to come back that he wanted to meet Laboon after sailing the seas. I'm saying that the goal to return to the one he left behind in itself is kind of halfbaked compared to the other Strawhats, who all aim to find or achieve something on their voyage. Brook doesn't have that.
! Brook's goal is not to meet Laboon again, Brook's goal is to complete a circumnavigation of the world and then meet Laboon from the other side of Reverse Mountain. There's only one crew who has achieved this feat so far.
! @Ivotas:
! > The only tangible thing described as goal he already had before he entered the Grand Line to begin with.
! He hasn't circumnavigated the world before he entered the Grand Line.
! @Ivotas:
! > The additional caviat of needing to sail the Grand Line doesn't make him meet Laboon more then just sailing back.
! Brook's goal is not just to meet Laboon again.
! @Ivotas:
! > It's funny how people even after 14 years think that this in any way shape or form is comparable to someone who literally has to sail the entire world to create her own world map.
! Brook has to sail around the entire world for his dream, I'd say that's pretty comparable to someone who literally has to sail the entire world to achieve her goal.
! @Ivotas:
! > I get what you guys are saying and I don't disagree that is not a goal. But I consider it to halfbaked compared to some other dreams if the Strawhats.
! How do you feel about his goal when you also consider that he needs to do a whole circumnavigation of the globe?
! @Ivotas:
! > Yes, he wants to see Laboon after crossing the seas. But at the end of the day seeing Laboon is not something he hasn't done before (altough he hasn't seen adult Laboon)..
! That's not the entirety of his goal though.
! @Ivotas:
! > The other Strawhats are looking for something they don't have yet
! Brook hasn't sailed around the world yet.
! @Ivotas:
! > and they are on an adventure trying to get that.
! Just like Brook.
! @Ivotas:
! > Brook already he didn't enter the Grand Line to meet Laboon. He entered it for an adventure (which is fine). I repeat, I get that there's a promise but just the act of meeting Laboon can be done without having to travel.
! What about the other part of his goal where he needs to sail around the world first before he can meet Laboon again?
! @Ivotas:
! > Completing a world map, finding the true history, finding All Blue and One Piece, becoming the worlds strongest swordsman or making sure the dream ship can sail around the world on the other hand require the crew to complete their voyage. That's why I consider it half baked in comparison. Doesn't mean it's less of a dream for Brook himself.
! Doing a circumnavigation of the globe requires the crew to complete their voyage, wouldn't you say?
! @Ivotas:
! > As far as Usopp is concerned, I actually find him and Chopper to be a close second to Brook in terms of goals. The reason why second because they do have a tangible dream that requires them to see more if the world. But it loses a bit oomph to me because you cannot clearly define when you have become a brave warrior of the sea as that is a matter of interpretation which differs from person to person. Same with Chopper becoming a doctor that can cure any disease. How far does this go? Just sicknesses or does this include death too? While death is not a disease throughout history medics, quacks and alchemist have always tried to overcome death or at least postpone it. Does Chopper want to go down this road too or not? Personally I don't think so but his wish is still something that is open for interpretation. Again, Nani's is simpler a complete map of the world is a complete map of the world. If it's only mostly complete it's still incomplete. That's clear to understand.
! Just like with Zoro, Usopp and Chopper don't need to travel with the future Pirate King to achieve their goals so in that sense, Brook's goal is actually more tethered to Luffy than theirs are. Also, there's plenty of brave warriors of the sea, not so many people who managed to sail around the world. Being able to cure any disease hasn't been done before at all.
! @Ivotas:
! > Again, nothing wrong with that. But still half baked compared to others who sail the world with the clear aim to get something specific out of it.
! Is being the freest man in the world or going on fun adventures something specific to you?
! @Ivotas:
! > Also it doesn't help that during his flashback he was thinking about Laboon a little bit too often for my taste. We get only little glimpses of his Grand Line adventure. We don't need to get shown several times how much he misses him in such a small amount of pages as it takes away from him actually enjoying his voyage. I felt like "if you constantly go on yammering about Laboon perhaps you shouldn't be on the ship in the first place". I get why it's there, but it was too much for the little time a flashback has.
! Nothing to argue about personal tastes.
! As a bonus since I like to cite my sources, here's another panel about Brook's goal in addition to the ones I already posted
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@Daz:
I get what you say about Brooks "true origins" being left very blank, but I guess it never bothered me so much because the flashback essentially is a second origin, for Brook as he is now? Which is a guy defined specifically by being the very last member of a ruined pirate crew, the guy specifically tasked with carrying on their legacy in their place. It doesn't bother me that he's not exceptional among the rumbar pirates because they're all gone, all compressed into Brook himself. And I also get what you're saying about the bond to Laboon being a tad overblown, but what sells the whole thing for me is that Brook has been stewing on the dashed hopes and dreams of all his friends for 50 years. 50 years of mind-crushing loneliness and complete isolation. The thought of completing the journey and fulfilling the promise to Laboon is literally the only thing Brook had to cling onto in terms of purpose for all that time, and ultimately the whole experience shapes who Brook is as a character in the present.
He's lacking in social etiquette and slightly mad due to his complete isolation of course in addition to being a skull-joking scaredycat, but also extremely principled about not being wasteful with life, and fiercely devoted to maintaining the last remnants he has of his dead friends and purpose. Brook low key comes out of Thriller Bark as one of the most fiercely principled and committed Straw hat members of all.All good points mate. And I don't disagree with any of them so apologies if I don't reply to every single point you address. It's totally fine to not be bothered by it. And I as matter of fact when I'm rough on Brook then I don't think that his motives are bad or anything. Just that they don't really compare to the rest of the Strawhats.
As far as the blank slate part of my argument is concerned, yep, you are right. We don't need to see all that for the Laboon connection to work. The point why I brought it up is because he combines two things that's not of the same level as the other Strawhats, one being that we don't know much of what makes him tick prior to Laboon and two meeting Laboon being something that is not something he hasn't done before. Twice for the same character just is underbaked to me.
Me replying to your one line statement "The other Straw Hats' goal is something they don't have" is not cherry picking now, is it? Or are there any other points in there that I haven't addressed?
But I can also dissect every bit of your posts regarding that topic, even if it is pointless as Monquito said. So this is for you:
Nope, there are no other points. That's exactly what I meant by cherry picking. Thank you for taking the time to engage in a proper discussion. I shall also keep my reply to you in the spoilers
! > We've already gone over how Brook's dream is not just to see Laboon again, that sailing back shows a lack of understanding, and why he needs to be a part of the new Pirate King's crew to achieve his goal.
! I understand that point. I never said it's just seeing him. The promise that he pretty much conquers the Grand Line and then meet Laboon is an integral part. I never doubted that. What I'm trying to say that at the end ALL of the Strawhats will have conquered the Grand Line not just Brook meaning it's a group achievement. But in terms of his own achievement he "just" see's a friend he already knows. Now don't get mad for me saying 'just'. I know how important that is and I agree with it. But it does not have the same oomph as having something completely new he didn't have before. And again, if the Grand Line voyage experience is supposed to be the new thing, that's something the other Strawhats will also have. So no standout here.
! > Zoro just needs to beat Mihawk, he doesn't need to see the entire world for that. He needs to get stronger, learn and refine his techniques and yadda yadda where meeting a whole variety of opponents is beneficial, sure, but he doesn't need to be with Luffy specifically. And again, Brook also needs to circle the globe for his dream.
! That's right. But if Zoro turns back now and says "screw you guys I'm going home" he will never become the strongest. Brook on the other hand can still see Laboon even if he doesn't conquer the Grand Line. Yes, I know that he will have failed on the promise part and that is a big deal. But the sheer fact that he can meet Laboon without fullfilling the promise takes something out of it. He can meet Laboon with or without conquering the Grand Line. Zoro cannot become the strongest without beating the strongest.
! > Brook's goal is not to meet Laboon again, Brook's goal is to complete a circumnavigation of the world and then meet Laboon from the other side of Reverse Mountain. There's only one crew who has achieved this feat so far.
! Same argument as above. I know that he wants to circumvent the Grand Line. But the sheer fact that we need this additional condition to boost the significance of his reuinion with Laboon is what what makes the difference to the other dream. Zoro just wants to become the strongest, Nami wants her world map etc. That's simple and raw desires. Brook needs the combination of circumventing the Grand Line and seeing someone he already met before. And that's what puts it below the other dreams because it needs to combination of the two to be put on the same level. Just meeting Laboon is bland without the circumvention. And just circumventing the Grand Line is pretty much a copy of Luffy's dream only that the latter will become the Pirate King while Brook will be the Pirate Kings crewmate. None of the other Strawhats needs a combination of two elements to boost their dreams. Only Brook does.
! > He hasn't circumnavigated the world before he entered the Grand Line.Brook's goal is not just to meet Laboon again.
Brook has to sail around the entire world for his dream, I'd say that's pretty comparable to someone who literally has to sail the entire world to achieve her goal.
How do you feel about his goal when you also consider that he needs to do a whole circumnavigation of the globe?
That's not the entirety of his goal though.
Brook hasn't sailed around the world yet.
Just like Brook.
What about the other part of his goal where he needs to sail around the world first before he can meet Laboon again?
Doing a circumnavigation of the globe requires the crew to complete their voyage, wouldn't you say?
! Since this is pretty much the same point over and over again I've combined into one post. I hope you don't mind. That being said, I pretty much stated in my previous paragraph why I think that the circumvention of the Grand Line is a contributor to why I find Brooks dream underbaked compared to the other Strawhats. So not much to add here.
! > Just like with Zoro, Usopp and Chopper don't need to travel with the future Pirate King to achieve their goals so in that sense, Brook's goal is actually more tethered to Luffy than theirs are. Also, there's plenty of brave warriors of the sea, not so many people who managed to sail around the world. Being able to cure any disease hasn't been done before at all.
! That's actually another argument for the point I made above. None of them need conquer the Grand Line. Their dreams are pretty much strong in their own right. Meeting Laboon on the other hand is bleh without the circumvention of the Grand Line.
! > Is being the freest man in the world or going on fun adventures something specific to you?
! I'm afraid, I'm not sure, what you're going for with this one. Care to elaborate?
! > Nothing to argue about personal tastes.
! Agreed.Anyways, thanks for getting back to me with this constructive post. I much appreciate having such a talk, wether we see eye to eye at the end or not.
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! @Ivotas:
! > Nope, there are no other points. That's exactly what I meant by cherry picking. Thank you for taking the time to engage in a proper discussion. I shall also keep my reply to you in the spoilers
! @Ivotas:
! > Since this is pretty much the same point over and over again I've combined into one post. I hope you don't mind. That being said, I pretty much stated in my previous paragraph why I think that the circumvention of the Grand Line is a contributor to why I find Brooks dream underbaked compared to the other Strawhats. So not much to add here.
! It's also not cherry picking when almost all of the points you've raised can be met with this one argument.
! @Ivotas:
! > I understand that point. I never said it's just seeing him. The promise that he pretty much conquers the Grand Line and then meet Laboon is an integral part. I never doubted that. What I'm trying to say that at the end ALL of the Strawhats will have conquered the Grand Line not just Brook meaning it's a group achievement. But in terms of his own achievement he "just" see's a friend he already knows. Now don't get mad for me saying 'just'. I know how important that is and I agree with it. But it does not have the same oomph as having something completely new he didn't have before. And again, if the Grand Line voyage experience is supposed to be the new thing, that's something the other Strawhats will also have. So no standout here.
! At the end ALL of the Straw Hats will have reached Laugh Tale and found the One Piece, the only reason why Luffy will be the sole Pirate King is because he got to call the shots of this ragtag band. ALL Straw Hats will have found All Blue. ALL Straw Hats will be brave warriors of the sea in their own right. ALL Straw Hats will have found the true history. ALL Straw Hats will have contributed to end racism towards non-humans. They're all group achievements as well but I don't see you call these dreams half-baked. How come?
! @Ivotas:
! > That's right. But if Zoro turns back now and says "screw you guys I'm going home" he will never become the strongest. Brook on the other hand can still see Laboon even if he doesn't conquer the Grand Line. Yes, I know that he will have failed on the promise part and that is a big deal. But the sheer fact that he can meet Laboon without fullfilling the promise takes something out of it. He can meet Laboon with or without conquering the Grand Line. Zoro cannot become the strongest without beating the strongest.
! Zoro can still set out on his own or join a different crew instead of going home. Nami can return home with a half-completed map, Usopp can return home with some true stories to tell and a bit more courage than he set out with. Chopper can return home having cured a couple of more diseases than before. I hope you get the point without me coming up with something for all Straw Hats. It's not just seeing Laboon again and dismissing the part about circling the world is disingenuous to Brook's goal.
! @Ivotas:
! > Same argument as above. I know that he wants to circumvent the Grand Line. But the sheer fact that we need this additional condition to boost the significance of his reuinion with Laboon is what what makes the difference to the other dream. Zoro just wants to become the strongest, Nami wants her world map etc. That's simple and raw desires. Brook needs the combination of circumventing the Grand Line and seeing someone he already met before. And that's what puts it below the other dreams because it needs to combination of the two to be put on the same level. Just meeting Laboon is bland without the circumvention. And just circumventing the Grand Line is pretty much a copy of Luffy's dream only that the latter will become the Pirate King while Brook will be the Pirate Kings crewmate. None of the other Strawhats needs a combination of two elements to boost their dreams. Only Brook does.
! The "same argument as above" applies from my perspective as well. Just as Laboon is the emotional punch to Brook's circumnavigation, Zoro doesn't "just" want to become the strongest swordsman, he does so because of his promise to his best friend, only he doesn't have the luxury of getting to tell her when he's done. And I don't think that the combination of seeing Laboon again and circumnavigating the world are equal.
! @Ivotas:
! > That's actually another argument for the point I made above. None of them need conquer the Grand Line. Their dreams are pretty much strong in their own right. Meeting Laboon on the other hand is bleh without the circumvention of the Grand Line.
! I feel like you're putting way too much emphasis on the "meet Laboon again" part because that was never the challenge Brook wants to overcome.
! @Ivotas:
! > I'm afraid, I'm not sure, what you're going for with this one. Care to elaborate?
! You said that all the other Straw Hats sail the world with the clear aim to get something specific out of it. The first part of Luffy's dream is becoming the freest man in the world ('cause that's what being the Pirate King means to him) and having fun adventures. I wouldn't call that specific. Usopp becoming a brave warrior of the sea isn't specific. Ending racism isn't specific.
At least not any less specific than circling the world and getting to tell your friend about it.Anyway, since spoilers are out and I want to avoid being spoilered or giving in to the urge to check them I won't be back until Friday
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! It's also not cherry picking when almost all of the points you've raised can be met with this one argument.
! I still disagree with that sentiment but I guess that's moot point by now.
! > At the end ALL of the Straw Hats will have reached Laugh Tale and found the One Piece, the only reason why Luffy will be the sole Pirate King is because he got to call the shots of this ragtag band. ALL Straw Hats will have found All Blue. ALL Straw Hats will be brave warriors of the sea in their own right. ALL Straw Hats will have found the true history. ALL Straw Hats will have contributed to end racism towards non-humans. They're all group achievements as well but I don't see you call these dreams half-baked. How come?
! Yes they will. But only to Sanji will finding All Blue be something that new that he's been hoping to find for all a big part of his life. It doesn't carry the same meaning for anyone else.
! > Zoro can still set out on his own or join a different crew instead of going home. Nami can return home with a half-completed map, Usopp can return home with some true stories to tell and a bit more courage than he set out with. Chopper can return home having cured a couple of more diseases than before. I hope you get the point without me coming up with something for all Straw Hats. It's not just seeing Laboon again and dismissing the part about circling the world is disingenuous to Brook's goal.
! I already addressed that in my previous post. The sheer fact that those dreams work on their own and don't need the addition of circumnavigating the Grand Line is what makes them have an oomph. They work on their own.
! > The "same argument as above" applies from my perspective as well. Just as Laboon is the emotional punch to Brook's circumnavigation, Zoro doesn't "just" want to become the strongest swordsman, he does so because of his promise to his best friend, only he doesn't have the luxury of getting to tell her when he's done. And I don't think that the combination of seeing Laboon again and circumnavigating the world are equal.
! I never said that they were equal. But again as stated above, I said in my previous post that the necessity of combining seeing Laboon and circumnavigating the Grand Line means that on their own both lack the oomph.
! > I feel like you're putting way too much emphasis on the "meet Laboon again" part because that was never the challenge Brook wants to overcome.
! That's because that is the big thing he keeps going on about. Both in the flashback, at the surprise reveal and even now, everytime he get's sentimental it's when he goes "Laboon". I have yet to see him get sentimental and say "Circumnavigating the Grand Line". That's just how it is in the manga so you can't blame me for taking this as a reference.
! > You said that all the other Straw Hats sail the world with the clear aim to get something specific out of it. The first part of Luffy's dream is becoming the freest man in the world ('cause that's what being the Pirate King means to him) and having fun adventures. I wouldn't call that specific. Usopp becoming a brave warrior of the sea isn't specific. Ending racism isn't specific.
At least not any less specific than circling the world and getting to tell your friend about it.
! Becoming Pirate King is as specific as it get's. You conquer the Grand Line like Roger did and you're it. Or you fail at it and you're not the Pirate King. It's as straightforward as that. There's abmiguity about it.
! Also I said in a previous post, not directed at you, that I consider Usopps and Choppers dreams to be second in terms of being half baked because it's up to interpretation as to when one counts as an brave warrior of the sea respectively a good doctor that can cure all diseases. Still they have the component of actually changing something about themselves on their voyage meaning at the end they'll be left with something new, they didn't have before. Brook meeting Laboon is nothing new. Brook circumnavigating will be no standout. That's why to me this is the number one of underbaked dreams.Anyway, since spoilers are out and I want to avoid being spoilered or giving in to the urge to check them I won't be back until Friday
That's a smart thing to do. I will not check the spoilers until there's a full raw I can actually read. But I'm also very spoiler of some people not keeping their mouths shut. What worries me more though is being spoilered on Youtube like a few years ago, where a recommended video just had a thumbnail that ruined it for me.
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You were just talking about how imaginary time limits don't apply to Yamato and that there's the whole rest of the series to become friends with the crew. And yet Carrot's situation is the one beyond repair?
Things can be held for a bit while the arc is still going. But Carrot's arc is NOT still going.
Yamato is still getting regular development, screentime, and focus. Payoffs to his business are explicitly impending. Including his meeting the crew. It's been teased down to characters wondering about him and eventually needing to thank him for his help. And Yamato has explicitly laid out a desire to travel with Luffy and asked a question. Yes or no, that needs to be addressed.
But Carrot has been completely frozen for three, almost four years now, with no current hooks remaining that need resolution. She hasn't on camera expressed any desire to keep travelling with the crew, she has no major story hooks that everyone isn't getting. Her only remaining business after Cake land was to avenge Pedro by taking out Peros… and that was given over to Catviper. She has been sidelined and done nothing for the last 130 or so chapters unless you count "putting on a kimono." "being a bonus hostage" and "watching someone else fight."
Yeah Oda can turn around and make Carrot a crew member next week, that's his prerogative. But he really, really dropped the ball on giving focus and plot relevance if that's the case. Dreams, flashbacks, motivation, helping in the war as an equal among the crew, pushing to limits and then passing them, she just has not been doing that.
The clock is still running for Yamato. But the clock was struck by lightning and frozen in place for Carrot, and you need Marty McFly and Doc Brown to get it going again.
Carrot had some good moments in cake land, no one is denying that. She had two good chapters. But in the biggest most important arc to date she's had none.
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Again why wouldn't time limits not apply to Yamato? Who is saying that. You bet if Oda decides to not follow up on anything he did with the character and they get ignored on our way to the next island of course the argument becomes the same for having Yams disqualified. Like what argument are we making here? A character that had 200 chapters of time to have anything given to them to do but didn't receive much of anything is just simply not the same as a character that has existed for like 60-70 chapters and gotten like consistent coverage in those.
Flatout if Oda doesn't follow up on the numerous declarations etc right after Wano I'm not going to copium about them joining until Laugh Tale. Like I think it's probably fair to assume Oda is never pulling another Jinbe again about joining. The timeframe left wouldn't align with another delayed joining. If you're not doing it post Wano you're just out.
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Things can be held for a bit while the arc is still going. But Carrot's arc is NOT still going.
Yamato is still getting regular development, screentime, and focus. Payoffs to his business are explicitly impending. Including his meeting the crew. It's been teased down to characters wondering about him and eventually needing to thank him for his help. And Yamato has explicitly laid out a desire to travel with Luffy and asked a question. Yes or no, that needs to be addressed.
But Carrot has been completely frozen for three, almost four years now, with no current hooks remaining that need resolution. She hasn't on camera expressed any desire to keep travelling with the crew, she has no major story hooks that everyone isn't getting. Her only remaining business after Cake land was to avenge Pedro by taking out Peros… and that was given over to Catviper. She has been sidelined and done nothing for the last 130 or so chapters unless you count "putting on a kimono." "being a bonus hostage" and "watching someone else fight."
Yeah Oda can turn around and make Carrot a crew member next week, that's his prerogative. But he really, really dropped the ball on giving focus and plot relevance if that's the case. Dreams, flashbacks, motivation, helping in the war as an equal among the crew, pushing to limits and then passing them, she just has not been doing that.
The clock is still running for Yamato. But the clock was struck by lightning and frozen in place for Carrot, and you need Marty McFly and Doc Brown to get it going again.
Carrot had some good moments in cake land, no one is denying that. She had two good chapters. But in the biggest most important arc to date she's had none.
I'll be the first to admit that Carrot has lost her momentum. She went after vengeance, failed, and yet has no apparent problem with it. She was happy to be Neko's cheerleader and yes-man, so it's not like I can't see that if nothing shakes her up in this battle, she won't deserve to join.
But for all of Yamato's momentum, very little of that has gone toward being a Straw Hat, 1016 or not. He's practically Momo's crewmate more than Luffy's at this point. It doesn't make sense to me that Yamato can certainly become blood brothers with the crew anytime before Laugh Tale, yet Carrot's clock is stopped even in the midst of this giant epic battle she's running toward and with the still-dead Pedro's will playing in her head (twice this battle) and unfulfilled.
They both have problems, and they can both solve those problems. The only time limit Yamato and Carrot have is the moment they and the crew part ways. And it's those good moments Carrot had with the crew, the death of Pedro, and her still being in this fight 5 years later that I'm putting my chips on.
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But for all of Yamato's momentum, very little of that has gone toward being a Straw Hat, 1016 or not.
"Hasn't interacted with the crew yet" is NOT the same thing as "isn't being set up as a straw hat."
You're actively ignoring… a lot of narrative things. A LOT.
If Yamato had his speech in the last chapter, and then stopped doing literally anything for the next four years, yeah we'd stop discussing him too. But he's still got major ongoing narrative and plot points to address. His story is still active and we KNOW there's still at least some more development to come. At the very very least Luffy has to say yes or no to the already asked question, and if he says no, then that needs development too. (And he's NEVER said no.) . On top of everything that's already there.
If he doesn't join at the end of Wano I won't still be saying in 2027 that he's absolutely joining any day now when he's been sidelined for years.
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"Hasn't interacted with the crew yet" is NOT the same thing as "isn't being set up as a straw hat."
You're actively ignoring… a lot of things. A LOT.
I've said my piece. I'm not getting into this again.
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But for all of Yamato's momentum, very little of that has gone toward being a Straw Hat, 1016 or not.
I don’t think I have to point out anything more than Robin’s paneltime with Crocodile vs. Luffy’s at this point. lol