Oh wait the argument was about Yamato? I clicked the wrong thread lol
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)
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So basically, a guardian deity is not the same as a guardian deity, right? I guess we'll have to wait for Hyogoro to explain.
A guardian deity is not the same as a "guardian deity of Wano." Surely you understand that guardian deities are all over the the place, but Yamato's is specific to Wano just like Chaka and Pell's are specific to Arabasta.
That's Kaido's opinion, not the actual name of Yamato's fruit.
Because Kaido of all people wouldn't understand something as important as a mythical zoan DF associated with Wano. And even if he made it up (he wouldn't), there's actual historical relevance to the wolf figure as it relates to Yamato Takeru. Besides, Kaido said he intended for the fruit to go to someone else, but apparently it chose Yamato. Now we know it wasn't just an accident or convenience that Yamato ate it.
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Can someone please collect all the instances where we've seen the people of Wano revere a wolf deity?
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Because Kaido of all people wouldn't understand something as important as a mythical zoan DF associated with Wano. And even if he made it up (he wouldn't), there's actual historical relevance to the wolf figure as it relates to Yamato Takeru. Besides, Kaido said he intended for the fruit to go to someone else, but apparently it chose Yamato. Now we know it wasn't just an accident or convenience that Yamato ate it.
Kaido, the man that was waiting to see who could become JoyBoy, and didnt recognize him when he shown up, he clearly doesnt know more than the Gorosei, and the Gorosei are looking pretty bad.
And lol, yeah, characters have certain ispirations on real world figures or myths, but not one single one of them follows the person or myth they're based of in a very lineal way.
Like, are you expecting Django to die and Enel to show up in the OP Super Bowl?
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We also still haven't gotten a proper Momotaro scene with Momotaro, the monkey, dog and pheasant facing off against the oni even though it's been predicted so many times before
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I guess Teach is going to get killed and beheaded by a Marine.
You cannot be based on the real Teach if that doesnt happen.
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Kaido, the man that was waiting to see who could become JoyBoy, and didnt recognize him when he shown up, he clearly doesnt know more than the Gorosei, and the Gorosei are looking pretty bad.
And lol, yeah, characters have certain ispirations on real world figures or myths, but not one single one of them follows the person or myth they're based of in a very lineal way.
Like, are you expecting Django to die and Enel to show up in the OP Super Bowl?
This sounds like someone who has no idea what they were doing or what they're looking for. And no one knew that Luffy was "Joy Boy." Not Robin. Not Jinbe. Not the WG. No one. Not a clue wtf you're talking about with Django and Enel, so I'll ignore.
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This sounds like someone who has no idea what they were doing or what they're looking for. And no one knew that Luffy was "Joy Boy." Not Robin. Not Jinbe. Not the WG. No one. Not a clue wtf you're talking about with Django and Enel, so I'll ignore.
But the point is.. Kaido seemed pretty confident he would know who JoyBoy was, as if he had at least one detail that would let him know for sure, but he ended up not recognizing him at all.
He doesnt really know as much as he presumes, clearly.
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A guardian deity is not the same as a "guardian deity of Wano." Surely you understand that guardian deities are all over the the place, but Yamato's is specific to Wano just like Chaka and Pell's are specific to Arabasta.
Right, Pell had that guardian comment after all. He also got out of Alabasta so as to help Cobra and Vivi's goals for Alabasta, so I'm sure Yamato would go out with Luffy partially to further goals for Wano, like finding out the full context of the border opening.
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But the point is.. Kaido seemed pretty confident he would know who JoyBoy was, as if he had at least one detail that would let him know for sure, but he ended up not recognizing him at all.
He doesnt really know as much as he presumes, clearly.
Joy Boy has nothing to do with this. There's a book on DFs, so we know that characters can identify specific fruits in the OP universe. There's no book on Joy Boy.
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Joy Boy has nothing to do with this. There's a book on DFs, so we know that characters can identify specific fruits in the OP universe. There's no book on Joy Boy.
The point is not JoyBoy…
Is Kaido's lack of full info on important matters.
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Now that we have two Hito Hito no Mi users in the crew we should just replace Chopper with Carrot so we get to keep a humanoid mammal without that overlap
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In any case, I’m glad for the revelation in Chapter 1044, because it will encourage people to think more fourth dimensionally in regards to things like Yamato being described as a deity and what that really means, rather than just stopping it at the thought that she’s objectively meant to stay on Wano for the rest of her life as the Wano God sent from the heavens and nothing more. More fourth dimensional thinking is nice after all.
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The point is not JoyBoy…
Is Kaido's lack of full info on important matters.
That's your assumption. It's not based on anything at this point. People have ways of knowing which DFs are which in the OP universe. Kaido, a yonko with unlimited resources, spent considerable time looking for a very specific DF. He found it and intended for someone else to consume it. The zoan DF (that has a will of its own) went to Yamato instead of Kaido's intended target. By your logic, Blackbeard didn't actually know what the Yami Yami no mi looked like or what its properties were yet somehow miraculously lucked into actually eating the right one.
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Fruits are more likely to help users achieve their dream, rather than become a burden into it.
If Yamato's df wanted her to obey and do what Kaido says, I would suppose we would already be exposed to this.
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Honestly, even if Yamato being the Guardian Deity of Wano is a thing, it actually strengthens the case for Yamato to join the Straw Hat Pirates.
At this point being a Guardian of Deity of Wano = helping the Straw Hat Pirates.
Wano's survival rest with the Straw Hat Pirates. "Wano's" continued existence rest with the Straw Hat Pirates. Wano's inevitable conflict with the World Government (Im and the Tenryuubito) rest with the actions of Luffy and the Straw Hat Pirates.
Oda has intimately tied Wano's fate and story with that of Luffy and the Straw Hat Pirates. This is why Oda has likened Luffy to a Guardian Deity of Wano through Hyogoro's comments. The possible fallacy in certain lines of thinking is believing that being a Guardian Deity of Wano equates to remaining in Wano but that is not the case. Wano's story is expanding beyond the lands of Wano Kuni toward the rest of the world. Oda has time and time again hit us with the reality that Momonosuke will be the one to guide the World to the DAWN. Not only Wano but the whole WORLD. Think about it, what does this mean? If Wano's relevance is encapsulating the rest of the world, does this not also mean that their influence and story are also extending beyond Wano?
Oda has clearly made it a point that beyond the Wano Kuni Arc, the role Wano takes will be completely different. The borders of Wano Kuni will open and the characteristics that defined them will be transformed. Change, growth and liberation are themes of Wano Kuni's story, especially in regards to Momonosuke. As the future Shogun, Momonosuke will bring Wano into the future and connect it to the rest of the world. Momonosuke will evolve Wano from what it was and become a leader second to none - as his name symbolises. This is why the current story of Momonosuke is dealing with him figuring out how to move Wano Kuni forward. Momonosuke believes keeping Wano's borders closed may be the right thing and that surrendering to Kaido would be the path forward. Relative to the story that line of thinking is wrong but this is where Momonosuke grows into a leader Wano Kuni and the world need. He is asking himself and Yamato these questions and thanks to the guidance Yamato is providing him, he is starting to understand what answering them could mean. Momonosuke knows he is important but doesn't exactly understand why. Momonosuke is seeking to clarify how the pieces of knowledge he has fits together.
Once Momonosuke comes to this realisation, he will understand that the battle he is fighting doesn't just involve Wano but the rest of the World. What is in balance isn't just the lives of the people of Wano. And thanks to reading Oden's journal and speaking with Zunesha, he now recognises how important Joy Boy is to this future. Momonosuke will realise that in order to reach the future his father, mother and ancestors fought for (including closing the Wano borders 800 years), Luffy/Joy Boy is necessary. Sure Yamato may turn out to be the Guardian Deity of Wano but with Luffy embodying the future of Wano as Joy Boy, sailing and fighting alongside the Straw Hat Pirates is arguably synonymous with fulfilling the role of Guardian Deity of Wano. Plus let's not forget that after Joy Boy's unfulfilled mission is complete, Yamato will return home (Wano Kuni).
Rather than the Guardian Deity of Wano thread being a limiting factor that keeps Yamato in Wano it in fact serves to support Yamato helping Luffy. Every thing Oda has scripted for Yamato seemingly has Yamato's future alongside the Straw Hat Pirates. And with each chapter this becomes more likely.
On the topic of Guardian Deities, Momonosuke is also set-up to become one. He will turn the image of a Dragon from the specter of tyranny into a symbol of liberation. Kin'emon's reaction to the sight of dragons conveyed the overall feelings Wano Kuni have of Dragons. Momonosuke has been given the artificial Seiryu Devil Fruit for a reason and that is to not only help liberate Wano Kuni but to destroy the imagery Kaido had attached to Dragons based on his monstrous actions for the past 20 years. Momonosuke's story is about leading Wano Kuni into a new age and what better way to initiate such a change than by reforming the symbolic meaning attached to the image of the Dragon. An image that will become a symbol of Wano Kuni as they stand against Im and the "Celestial Dragons" who seek to corrupt the world in their darkness.
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Fruits are more likely to help users achieve their dream, rather than become a burden into it.
If Yamato's df wanted her to obey and do what Kaido says, I would suppose we would already be exposed to this.
The DF wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with what either Kaido or Yamato wanted. As far as the DF was concerned, it could've simply been that Yamato was more worthy of consuming it than anyone else (including the person that Kaido would've ultimately given it to).
Look at how Luffy ended up with his DF. The fruit just conveniently ended up with the person that was most appropriate to eat it. It went from the Navy to Shanks to Luffy (who just so happened to be hungry and in the right place at the right time to eat it). Same with Yamato. And since the fruit ended up with Yamato when it could've ended up anywhere else, my point is people should look at that objectively. Oda mentioned zoan fruits having a will of their own right now for a reason. And if you look at the panel I posted, it explains it perfectly. And since Yamato's DF willed itself to Yamato and no one else, it's entirely appropriate to ask why.
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Fruits are more likely to help users achieve their dream, rather than become a burden into it.
If Yamato's df wanted her to obey and do what Kaido says, I would suppose we would already be exposed to this.
Well going by that, falcons symbolize victory, which may explain why Pell prevailed as much as he did at Alabasta, while wolves symbolize guardianship, which I think fits Yamato too.
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It's amazing how people just refuse to sum 1 + 1 regarding Yamato's DF's meaning.
Kaido searched for it because he wanted to make a new lackey shogun, so he went after a fruit with great symbolism for the people of Wano: one of its guardian deities.
Kaido didn't want to bless the country with a true guardian deity, he just wanted a phoney that would obey him.
Kaido didn't intend the fruit for Yamato.
The fruit found Yamato, someone who showed great love for Wano and its people and deeply wanted to save them.
It's okay if you think that all this does not matter for Yamato's joining chances.
But it's just wrong to downplay the fruit's significance, to make bad comparisons or to say that the guardian deity of Wano is just Kaido's bullshit talk.
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to say that the guardian deity of Wano is just Kaido's bullshit talk.
That's based on the facts that we were never exposed to this creature ever being worshipped in Wano and the Wano-Kunians not even knowing devil fruits exist at all.
And Kaido does seem under-informed about things in general.
I mean, several of Kaido's underlings are Wano-kunian themselves, and none of them have gone 'holy shit is the one God we worship a lot', I understand Momo doesnt recognize it, but everyone else..
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That's based on the facts that we were never exposed to this creature ever being worshipped in Wano and the Wano-Kunians not even knowing devil fruits exist at all.
And Kaido does seem under-informed about things in general.
So, here we have someone who's trying to talk down in-story exposition.
Well, we never heard of Nika or anyone worshipping it before 30 or so chapters ago, and now Luffy is him.
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So, here we have someone who's trying to talk down in-story exposition.
Well, we never heard of Nika or anyone worshipping it before 30 or so chapters ago, and now Luffy is him.
I just said literal facts, that was all.
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I mean, if we were exposed to other characters, and namely Wano-kunians, saying the exact same thing Kaido is, it would certainly validate him a lot.
As of right now, you know who trusted Kaido? Oden did, and that ended horribly for him and his country, Yamato who knows Kaido on a more personal way, seems to be doing the rightiest thing right now, by telling Kaido 'you know dad, I'm totally doing the opposite of what you're telling me to do, cause I know you and your bs'.
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I feel Tama crying with Nami this chapter is yet one more indication and her not really having many ties holding her in Wano anymore + Ace's promise to her really makes her the greatest contender for joining the crew. The only thing holding her back in my eyes is her age. it would be pretty irresponsible for anyone to take an 8-year old on a pirate adventure where the protaganists are litterally fighting for their lives against the greatset in universe forces in existance. I know that there's a way that she can become older but I already disliked that for Momo and I hope it won't happen to Tama.
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Aside from the current characters featuring in Wano, I can think of another character whose story would advance if they were present. A story that can tie into the future of One Piece. And all they have to do is be present and witness the coming events. An unresolved plot thread left behind by Oda in this characters story would progress in such a situation. But alas, they have to be present first.
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That's based on the facts that we were never exposed to this creature ever being worshipped in Wano and the Wano-Kunians not even knowing devil fruits exist at all.
And Kaido does seem under-informed about things in general.
I mean, several of Kaido's underlings are Wano-kunian themselves, and none of them have gone 'holy shit is the one God we worship a lot', I understand Momo doesnt recognize it, but everyone else..
If we take all this guardian fruit talk at face value, including what Chaka said and his role, it seems that anyone with a guardian fruit is able to leave their country they're associated with, at least if it's for the cause of helping out said country, since guardian-related users like Pell were able to leave Alabasta in support of Cobra for the Levely, so I'd suppose something similar would happen with Yamato in leaving partially for Wano's sake.
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Look at this big bright moon still hanging in there:
And with that hole Kaido blasted through the island and the Minks on the way, there's still every chance that Carrot will get her time to shine.
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Look at this big bright moon still hanging in there:
https://i.imgur.com/T6unxZ2.png
And with that hole Kaido blasted through the island and the Minks on the way, there's still every chance that Carrot will get her time to shine.
Yeah, the added speed from Sulong might be a good chance to show off how fast Sulong Carrot really is in running out of Onigashima while it's all crumbling.
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Yeah, the added speed from Sulong might be a good chance to show off how fast Sulong Carrot really is in running out of Onigashima while it's all crumbling.
Running out? Seems to me she's running in.
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Look at this big bright moon still hanging in there:
https://i.imgur.com/T6unxZ2.png
And with that hole Kaido blasted through the island and the Minks on the way, there's still every chance that Carrot will get her time to shine.
Time to shine against who though?
Only Kaido is really left. There's like one or two CP0 agents around to fail at their jobs. All the WG agents are getting wrecked by Zunesha.
So unless the Big Mom pirates are really going to show and fight after Big Mom already got booted off the island what will this time to shine entail?
Cuz I mean Yamato is still around to fight a strong oppoenet too.
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@Zik:
Time to shine against who though?
Only Kaido is really left. There's like one or two CP0 agents around to fail at their jobs. All the WG agents are getting wrecked by Zunesha.
So unless the Big Mom pirates are really going to show and fight after Big Mom already got booted off the island what will this time to shine entail?
Cuz I mean Yamato is still around to fight a strong oppoenet too.
On a serious note, yeah, Carrot didn't even get to face some of the Numbers even though some of them were still running around, or Wanda for that matter.
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@Zik:
Time to shine against who though?
Only Kaido is really left. There's like one or two CP0 agents around to fail at their jobs. All the WG agents are getting wrecked by Zunesha.
So unless the Big Mom pirates are really going to show and fight after Big Mom already got booted off the island what will this time to shine entail?
Cuz I mean Yamato is still around to fight a strong oppoenet too.
Oh, I don't think the BM pirates are going to factor in anymore. And I don't doubt that Yamato, Momo and just about everyone else will have their important parts to play. I can't even be sure what Carrot, specifically, can do that others couldn't.
But I do keep in mind that Pedro's will hasn't been answered. Carrot, specifically, has to move forward. She's the one that needs to understand why the Straw Hats are so vital to the Dawn, like Pedro said. I feel that's going to pay off soon, and she'll be in a position, and have the means, to do something important.
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But I do keep in mind that Pedro's will hasn't been answered. Carrot, specifically, has to move forward. She's the one that needs to understand why the Straw Hats are so vital to the Dawn, like Pedro said. I feel that's going to pay off soon, and she'll be in a position, and have the means, to do something important.
I mean, all the Minks will have to understand the Dawn, don't they? They have an established relationship with Kozuki and Neko was one who was telling Pedro about the Dawn as well, in addition to Neko also having gotten to know Oden and Toki, the latter of which talked about nine shadows being woven together. Maybe Carrot will be one of the nine shadows then?
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Look at this big bright moon still hanging in there:
https://i.imgur.com/T6unxZ2.png
And with that hole Kaido blasted through the island and the Minks on the way, there's still every chance that Carrot will get her time to shine.
Oh please, If any mink is gonna shine now, it is Bepo.
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I mean, all the Minks will have to understand the Dawn, don't they? They have an established relationship with Kozuki and Neko was one who was telling Pedro about the Dawn as well, in addition to Neko also having gotten to know Oden and Toki, the latter of which talked about nine shadows being woven together. Maybe Carrot will be one of the nine shadows then?
Yes, they should, as should the rest of the world when the time comes. But it's Carrot whose arc can only conclude when she understands for herself or is on the correct path to understand. Pedro, on behalf of Neko and the rest of his people, was trying to discover the truth, and be ended up believing the Straw Hats were the answer, specifically them. He entrusted Carrot with that belief and died for it, desperate for her to understand. That she hasn't done so yet is important.
As for the nine shadows, I can't begin to guess who or what that's referring to anymore. I'm in the 11 total SHs camp, and even without Luffy that would be 10.
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With this new development of Luffy having the DF of a God, I think the door is open to learning more about DF's in general. I personally imagine the line about DF's having wills of their own means that they are able to find users that are appropriate for their purposes:
-Luffy is someone fighting for freedom so the Nika fruit found him.
-Yamato is someone who's fighting for Wano's freedom, so the Makami found them.
-The Seiryu found Kaido, who would go on to rule Wano for more than 20 years.
-The Seiryu's copy found Momonosuke, who is going to take over Wano once Kaido falls.
If the DF were to influence the users after they ate them, then that would somewhat undermine Luffy's character after he ate his DF. I see this as being a way to have Yamato able to be free while still possessing the fruit of a guardian deity of Wano.P.S.- Only just noticed that AP is back up, nice to see everyone again :)
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With this new development of Luffy having the DF of a God, I think the door is open to learning more about DF's in general. I personally imagine the line about DF's having wills of their own means that they are able to find users that are appropriate for their purposes:
-Luffy is someone fighting for freedom so the Nika fruit found him.
-Yamato is someone who's fighting for Wano's freedom, so the Makami found them.
-The Seiryu found Kaido, who would go on to rule Wano for more than 20 years.
-The Seiryu's copy found Momonosuke, who is going to take over Wano once Kaido falls.
If the DF were to influence the users after they ate them, then that would somewhat undermine Luffy's character after he ate his DF. I see this as being a way to have Yamato able to be free while still possessing the fruit of a guardian deity of Wano.P.S.- Only just noticed that AP is back up, nice to see everyone again :)
Yeah, might turned out that the fruits are associated with gods because ancient people who didn't know better assumed things with superstition and worshiped the fruit users as gods, even if the fruits don't come down from heaven and reincarnate the user somehow.
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Yeah, might turned out that the fruits are associated with gods because ancient people who didn't know better assumed things with superstition and worshiped the fruit users as gods, even if the fruits don't come down from heaven and reincarnate the user somehow.
Indeed, also "God" in this manga is kami/神 which is different from the usage in western religions.
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Oh, I don't think the BM pirates are going to factor in anymore. And I don't doubt that Yamato, Momo and just about everyone else will have their important parts to play. I can't even be sure what Carrot, specifically, can do that others couldn't.
But I do keep in mind that Pedro's will hasn't been answered. Carrot, specifically, has to move forward. She's the one that needs to understand why the Straw Hats are so vital to the Dawn, like Pedro said. I feel that's going to pay off soon, and she'll be in a position, and have the means, to do something important.
I really wonder if Oda is going to pick that up or if he really ever set it up.
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@Zik:
I really wonder if Oda is going to pick that up or if he really ever set it up.
Maybe Neko, Wanda, Shishilian, Concelot, Giovanni, and the others will be the ones to support Momo since he's important for the Dawn, and learn why it's so important by following along Momo more now that he can call their home Zunesha to him.
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@Zik:
I really wonder if Oda is going to pick that up or if he really ever set it up.
"One day you will understand the true importance of keeping Luffy and his crew alive here so that their voyage can go on!! Listen to me, yougara… Keep moving onward!!" Those were Pedro's last words in 877. Carrot was thinking about what he said when she faced Peros, and again when she had lost to him. Those words didn't come up when Neko beat Peros instead. That leads me to believe the process of moving onward, and all it entails, is something still relevant to Carrot herself.
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Carrot and Yamato fight for the last spot @Zik:
Time to shine against who though?
Only Kaido is really left. There's like one or two CP0 agents around to fail at their jobs. All the WG agents are getting wrecked by Zunesha.
So unless the Big Mom pirates are really going to show and fight after Big Mom already got booted off the island what will this time to shine entail?
Cuz I mean Yamato is still around to fight a strong oppoenet too.
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"One day you will understand the true importance of keeping Luffy and his crew alive here so that their voyage can go on!! Listen to me, yougara… Keep moving onward!!" Those were Pedro's last words in 877. Carrot was thinking about what he said when she faced Peros, and again when she had lost to him. Those words didn't come up when Neko beat Peros instead. That leads me to believe the process of moving onward, and all it entails, is something still relevant to Carrot herself.
I remember the lines I’m just not sure what it leads to is really Carrot specific and possibly just something for the reader.
@Long:
Carrot and Yamato fight for the last spot
I don’t think Carrot is even in the running for that.
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This post is deleted!
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As much as it can be futile to try to find recruitment patterns in a manga that tends to embrace the random and weird, I'd still think that one major driving force of what leads Luffy to recruit someone is how much he and the world-be recruit are emotionally connected. I think that very much shows during times like when Luffy uplifts their spirits during a point they're feeling very low or if Luffy deems someone as being crucial to his happiness, like Luffy being glad about Franky having helped rescue Robin, even though Luffy was mad at Franky for beating up Usopp.
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I don't think this has been mentioned, but for the sake of transparency, I recently realized that the ni in Luffy's Nika model would fit the 2, while the ku in Yamato's Okuchi no Makami model would fit the 9. Doesn't change my stance, but make of that what you will.
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@Zik:
I remember the lines I’m just not sure what it leads to is really Carrot specific and possibly just something for the reader.
I don’t think Carrot is even in the running for that.
I think I could see Carrot and Luffy being emotionally connected with enough for them to be crewmates with each other depending on what happens with the Dawn subplot, but that said and despite what happened with Pedro, I just don’t see Carrot potentially gaining more relevancy with Luffy beyond filling in the ally sort of role many people have filled in prior. Just looking at the relationship specifically between Luffy and Carrot, I don’t feel that Luffy has a particularly strong emotional investment in Carrot somehow.
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I'm not for it right now, but maybe in a similar sense to how Vivi could return (except yamato).
I'd rather her see her journey to become Oden continue by helping mentor Momo to be the new Shogun of Wano.
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I'm not for it right now, but maybe in a similar sense to how Vivi could return (except yamato).
I'd rather her see her journey to become Oden continue by helping mentor Momo to be the new Shogun of Wano.
If anything, Momo would prob be better being mentored by someone like Kinemon and the other Scabbards since they looked over Wano for a time while Oden himself was actually away.
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If anything, Momo would prob be better being mentored by someone like Kinemon and the other Scabbards since they looked over Wano for a time while Oden himself was actually away.
I considered that, but figured the scabbards would likely become Daimyo of the different regions of Wano. After all this will be an important role and necessary for the country to recover and restore itself after 20years of poor leadership. I also think that Kinemon lacks the intelligence to actively guide Momo, which is something the other scabbards seem to think judging by their response to the port/symbol debacle.