What? I can't hear you from all the way over there
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Chapter 1,043: Let's Face Death Together!!!
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Looks good to me, keep it this way
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I wonder how many times it has to be reiterated that the issue many people are having is not "this direction was unexpected and not forshadowed" but "it was disappointing that it turned exactly how it was foreshadowed that we were stranding away from the more charming aspects of the story and closer to end of NAruto shenanigans" for this strawman argument to be put to rest.
Yes, this. No one is saying it wasn't foreshadowed.
We're saying that its an icky direction that's going to take a lot of finesse to land, and Oda's track record on some retcons isn't great.
@Daz:
Well, it only reframes things if you've been reading one piece wrong, you know. Any aspects of the series which you enjoyed and now feel are in conflict with this development, it was your mistake to put stock in those things in the first place, no doubt influenced by your own westernized, modern biases for storytelling. Oda doesn't abide by such things (though if he did that'd probably also be cool subversions that'd distinguish the series from its peers).
Now all this doesn't really make things any better for you of course, but it does dismiss your grievances as baseless and misinformed, so thats something
Please tell me this is case of sarcasm not coming across in text and you don't actually mean this. Because YIKES if you're not being sarcastic.
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Please tell me this is case of sarcasm not coming across in text and you don't actually mean this. Because YIKES if you're not being sarcastic.
If you're just lifting the ball for Daz to kick for giggles, without any other purpose, then instead I propose you to read my posts and actually have a conversation.
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Please tell me this is case of sarcasm not coming across in text and you don't actually mean this. Because YIKES if you're not being sarcastic.
Yes it is sarcasm from Daz that people keep insisting that his grievances are him having read the story wrong from the start. He talks often about not being a fan of having to reframe previous story beats and/or feelings on the story. And not liking when people insist this is what he needs to do.
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the old yakuza boss has been saying gear 4th resembles an ancient deity of wano, brought it up several times.
what are the odds that this was actually joyboy/sun god/whoever using that form in the past which caused them to create those statues of him?
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We were talking on the Discord and wondered: Can we even trust Zunesha?
It's a senior who casually breaks into a child's mind and tells him stories of an alleged Messiah while on a walk, never mind that it's a criminal with a sizable 800 years sentence. And it's stopping in front of Wano, as if it is not allowed within 100km of the country.
Would you entrust your child to someone like that? I would certainly hope not.
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Did Zunesha and Oden ever talk to each other?
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nah oda loves animals too much to make him anything but a honest grandpa elephant. i bet there is going to be a bunch of zuneshas in the final war because it will look cool.
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No, Roger and Oden felt strange, unnerved and observed while on Zou. Just imagine sitting in a gorgeous 1000 year old park while some old person watches your every move. Zunesha really is a creep confirmed.
They felt unnerved around that whale tree/ornament thing. luffy felt the same way. there have also been close up shots that suggest there is more to it.
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I feel like aside from this not really changing Luffy fundamentally character-wise, it's also obvious he's not dead because all of this shock around him 'dying' is a pretty typical story device to build tension.
Building tension around characters being dead means very little because there is basically no death in OP unless it serves some sort of specific thematic point in this specific way (Ace, Whitebeard, the many other flashback deaths etc). I fully expect everyone who has been presumed to be dead to turn out fine by the end of the arc.
We have Roger's hat, but that still works from Shanks' perspective because he was his former captain. I really think the whole fate thing won't be as egregious as the most surface reading of it seems like. It's too simple and too seemingly contradictory to Luffy as a character.
Luffy's strongest values are about having his own freedom and choosing his own fate, essentially. I think it'll absolutely relate to that idea and I think you can do something pretty cool with it depending on execution.
I actually lean towards the spirit of the fruit mattering because that's a thing we've actually known from much earlier on (basically since we learned each fruit can only be eaten once/by only one user), not just the Joyboy teasing since FI.
I think getting Luffy's victory over an Emperor has always kind of uneasy for me because they've been set up as such a wall. Big Mom being weakened because of luck was clumsy and even Luffy just clumsily getting up many more times in a shorter span of time than any enemy is clumsy, but at least there is some sort of sense of narrative progression to it all. And even if Luffy's fruit turns out to be more special than we thought, that doesn't mean he still won't have to figure it out or it is actually as special of a power-up as it seems.
I like being hopeful because even in the worst writing moments (which I consider the mess that is Law's devil fruit), there is still at least some sort of logic to it. Law's a doctor, so all of his moves are themed around that, clumsy, but still principled. Even when Donflamingo became kind of a worse copy of Crocodile by the end of Dressrosa, there were some basic principles behind it. I still don't like Gear 4 that much because it feel like Hodi Jones of power-ups: yeah there is some thought in it, but in execution it's derivative in a pretty clumsy way. Gear 2 and Gear 3 do a much better balance of fun/goofy/creative, but Gear 4 still adheres to some logic and you can argue it's something that could still be refined.
Haki in general has really vague boundaries, too. I feel you could invalidate devil fruit powers with it at any moment and the only thing preventing this not to happen is Oda's own choice of trying to still keep DF powers still relevant and keeping Haki an enhancement.
And most importantly, I think doing something with your main character is a bigger deal than any specific arc villain or side character, especially something this major should have more thought put into it than just the very surface element.
I have more faith for this to work out than I don't, I guess.
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Do I understand feeling fate and freedom are contradictory? Yes. Do I think Oda feel the same way? No.
Luffy use his freedom to pursue becoming pirate king which happen to be something that was long awaited. Its not like he wanted to be a baker and was forced to do something different.
Do I think the audience need to aagree with Oda on it? No. Its on the audience to decide wether they think the story is making a good choice or not.
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I don't care what power up Luffy gets, what the DF is actually named. The only thing I care about is if he's still Luffy or not? If he's taken over, or his personality is changed? Then that's a series killer for me. No power up is worth loosing our boy.
Now, I am pretty confident that Oda would not do that. Because he has to know that's a series killer as well.
I think believing it's still just the Gum Gum DF is pretty delusional at this point. When Oda's been hinting as far back as Dressrosa that Luffy's DF is something more than just Rubber. He hid it under the gize of Haki. So despite what some people think, this isn't something that Oda has just been hinting at recently.
I think that it has to be something more than just the Gum Gum, but I'd be fine either way. If it is? Fine. If not? Also fine. Like I said, the only thing I care about is Luffy's personality.
I will say though, this is Oda, even if the DF has a different name? I wouldn't expect it to be something that immediately screams "Super Powerful DF", I know some people are like Mythical Zoan - Hindu Monkey God thing.
No, that's not Oda's style. Something like the Resin Resin DF, does work. Because that sounds like a stupid name of a DF that is like the DF that needed to be hidden from history.
But in that case, I think it would have something more to do with an auxiliary effect, than maybe it's straight up attacking power.
Because with improved Armament and Conquerors Haki, Luffy already hits pretty hard. And those things can get stronger.
So it's main effect, I think has to be something more unconventional.
But the thing that I do like about this, is that it's putting back more of a focus on DF again, and saying that Haki isn't the only path.
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We have Roger's hat, but that still works from Shanks' perspective because he was his former captain. I really think the whole fate thing won't be as egregious as the most surface reading of it seems like. It's too simple and too seemingly contradictory to Luffy as a character.
Luffy's strongest values are about having his own freedom and choosing his own fate, essentially. I think it'll absolutely relate to that idea and I think you can do something pretty cool with it depending on execution.
Spot on! We clearly follow a MC who's all about freewill, in a story where the power of miracles is to never give up. One Piece is clearly against determinism, the greatest proof being that no character is just relaxing waiting for things to come true, but actively working towards achieving it. At the same time, there some degree of fate moving the story (the Will of D.), but many readings of fate are not fatalistic but instead accept free will – like modern compatibilism and even post-socratic greek philosophy –, which you can also see in religion, including doctrines that think of fate as correlated to actions and thoughts – like Karma.
My theory is that the Black Beard Pirates will be all about determinism, because some of their lines imply that (chapter 544), but Luffy will argue contrary to that to defend free will.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Do I understand feeling fate and freedom are contradictory? Yes. Do I think Oda feel the same way? No.
Luffy use his freedom to pursue becoming pirate king which happen to be something that was long awaited. Its not like he wanted to be a baker and was forced to do something different.
Do I think the audience need to aagree with Oda on it? No. Its on the audience to decide wether they think the story is making a good choice or not.
You put it very well. I think that's the right spirit of the debate here.
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Oda's statements below make sense now. Looking forward to Wano's "surprising" ending confirmed by Toei staff.:wub:
Oda: Pay attention to Luffy. (2021)
Next time Nika appears, he'll show his face. (2021)
Audience won't be satisfied if Luffy beats Kaido with just a strong punch. (2016)
Skypiea party is his 3rd favorite in the series, where the same SFX was used as "drums of liberation"
(2020)skypiea was my top 3-5 arcs. just b/c of the fun o the adventure. and the fire dance when i first read it was filled with just "joy" for me. So if it's true oda snuck some hints in that exact panel, then it'll just add extra meaning to me an enjoyable chapter
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Hyogoro said Luffy looks like a Guardian Deity, not Sun God Nika himself.
the old yakuza boss has been saying gear 4th resembles an ancient deity of wano, brought it up several times.
what are the odds that this was actually joyboy/sun god/whoever using that form in the past which caused them to create those statues of him?
That's how i feel, the old man was not just mumbling, there is depth behind his words.
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There is a chance we get early spoilers for 1044 I would think with such a hype of a chapter. We shall see. There is loads to be said about 1043, a great chapter, not only because of the last page.
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Just want throw some idea.what if the fruit that gorosei feared was the soul fruit brooke has.awakening that fruit summon joy boy soul by chance and also other dead samurai soul for a limited time.the grim reaper zoro encounter might be one of the dead samurai too..all of them will hold kaido until luffy recover.or maybe luffy is dead and brook summon his soul back.
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https://i.imgur.com/O4YDbR7.png
That's how i feel, the old man was not just mumbling, there is depth behind his words.
Not just mumble. Oda even admitted years ago that Gear Four is based on the guardian gods Nio from Japan.
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If you want to prove something take actual canon material like Tarek did.
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If you want to go by the original Japanese Hyogoro says 明王 (みょうおう) meaning Wisdom King
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I'm still on the fence with this reveal, but the second luffy says : hey youtube, joyboy here, I'm dropping this manga.
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Not just mumble. Oda even admitted years ago that George Four is based on the guardian gods Nio from Japan.
Is this autocorrect?
Because I'll be totally calling Gears George from now on.
Wanna change my nick into George Four Snakeman.
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@uniaka:
I'm still on the fence with this reveal, but the second luffy says : hey youtube, joyboy here, I'm dropping this manga.
Not just you.
The straw hats would all definitely curse the corpse that was their captain's and leave him.
Also 90% of the entire manga reader of a worldwide phenomenal manga title that has just performed a worldwide poll that (unsuprisingly) resulted in its main character as the poll winner.
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Why i remember when George Snakeman came back at age 45 to become the oldest heavyweight champion of the world.
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Luffy himself is beyond out of stamina, raising up without even a minute of rest, it gives the impression that 'someone else' is taking over.
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Is Cavendish also Joyboy ? Maybe Hakuba is just a different name like Nikka :ninja:
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Luffy himself is beyond out of stamina, raising up without even a minute of rest, it gives the impression that 'someone else' is taking over.
Unless if the awakened not-gomu gomu no mi has healing powers.
Whether it be mythical zoan or tree sap/resin or something else, I wouldn't think it impossible. It is however problematic that there would be a fruit that can heal the user (or perhaps even others) on the brink of death. That effectively would mean that if you don't litteraly kill Luffy, he'll just be able to regenerate and doesn't even have to be conscious to do so.Also, I find it strange that Yamato says that even Kaidou should be feeling the strain of the fight by now. This actually nerfs Kaidou and if Luffy continues to fight, it means that he will be fighting an enemy that is no longer at peak strength while he just got an upgrade unless if Luffy pulls a Vegeta and can also heal kaidou and wants to defeat him at his best.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
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Unless if the awakened not-gomu gomu no mi has healing powers.
Whether it be mythical zoan or tree sap/resin or something else, I wouldn't think it impossible. It is however problematic that there would be a fruit that can heal the user (or perhaps even others) on the brink of death. That effectively would mean that if you don't litteraly kill Luffy, he'll just be able to regenerate and doesn't even have to be conscious to do so.Also, I find it strange that Yamato says that even Kaidou should be feeling the strain of the fight by now. This actually nerfs Kaidou and if Luffy continues to fight, it means that he will be fighting an enemy that is no longer at peak strength while he just got an upgrade unless if Luffy pulls a Vegeta and can also heal kaidou and wants to defeat him at his best.
Luffy isn't able to beat kaido at full strength 1 on 1 at this point in the story. This was Oda's intent i'm pretty sure.
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Unless if the awakened not-gomu gomu no mi has healing powers.
Whether it be mythical zoan or tree sap/resin or something else, I wouldn't think it impossible. It is however problematic that there would be a fruit that can heal the user (or perhaps even others) on the brink of death. That effectively would mean that if you don't litteraly kill Luffy, he'll just be able to regenerate and doesn't even have to be conscious to do so.Also, I find it strange that Yamato says that even Kaidou should be feeling the strain of the fight by now. This actually nerfs Kaidou and if Luffy continues to fight, it means that he will be fighting an enemy that is no longer at peak strength while he just got an upgrade unless if Luffy pulls a Vegeta and can also heal kaidou and wants to defeat him at his best.
Right after Kidd and Law established that using Awakening without being used to it drains a lot of stamina, and while Luffy doesnt have anymore well uggh..
Healing powers? That's just Gear Plot Armor.
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Luffy isn't able to beat kaido at full strength 1 on 1 at this point in the story. This was Oda's intent i'm pretty sure.
If Luffy had beat him, would he have beaten him alone though?
Kaidou battled 5 supernovae simultaneously. 2 of those 5 actually succeeded in defeating an emperor after that (although some luck was involved there with the way that played out).
Kaidou then battle Yamato for some time.
Didn't Kaidou also fight Big Mom earlier?–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Right after Kidd and Law established that using Awakening without being used to it drains a lot of stamina, and while Luffy doesnt have anymore well uggh..
Healing powers? That's just Gear Plot Armor.
Well, it is stated that awakenings and haki usage drains stamina but conveniently this seems to only ever effect the protaganists and never the antagonists.
And yes, but, being the lead character in a series means you have the highest level of plot armour.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
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If Luffy had beat him, would he have beaten him alone though?
Kaidou battled 5 supernovae simultaneously. 2 of those 5 actually succeeded in defeating an emperor after that (although some luck was involved there with the way that played out).
Kaidou then battle Yamato for some time.
Didn't Kaidou also fight Big Mom earlier?Exactly, he also fought the 9 scabbards before the worst gen vs emperor showdown. He was never going to be at "peak strength" in his fight with Luffy. He's bound to be feeling the effects of all these battles by this stage in the raid.
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Unless if the awakened not-gomu gomu no mi has healing powers.
Whether it be mythical zoan or tree sap/resin or something else, I wouldn't think it impossible. It is however problematic that there would be a fruit that can heal the user (or perhaps even others) on the brink of death. That effectively would mean that if you don't litteraly kill Luffy, he'll just be able to regenerate and doesn't even have to be conscious to do so.Also, I find it strange that Yamato says that even Kaidou should be feeling the strain of the fight by now. This actually nerfs Kaidou and if Luffy continues to fight, it means that he will be fighting an enemy that is no longer at peak strength while he just got an upgrade unless if Luffy pulls a Vegeta and can also heal kaidou and wants to defeat him at his best.
Actually
1. Jinbe -> he is still in good condition could definitely give Kaidou some work
2. The rest of the Starhats -> quite some decent fire power there, heck even Nami can use Zeus and Usopp and Brook barely fought
3. Denjiro is up to something, Cat-San and others also have some more in the tank from the Samurai
4. Marco -> definitely can do something more
5. Law, Kid are spent but come on, they can throw one more attach
6. Yamato -> still good to fight a bit
7. Momo -> now all grown up probably not just bigger Dragon -> he bit Kaido so definitely can do something right?And if there is Luffy getting back up thats just a ton of new stuff to throw at Kaidou.
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Without CoC or Awakening, Kaidou can't really be taken down though. I assume that's due to a combination of his scales and CoC.
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TOEI might have confirmed what this week's twist is by the name of two of their newly released WANO OST's so read by your own risk.
! Well TOEI just made sure to everyone now that it was indeed Luffy's awakening with the title for their OST's:
! Luffy ~Awakening~
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Awakened Luffy Performance
! And going by these titles I really doubt someone is taking over Luffy he just awakened his Devil Fruit.
Those heavy drums though, the Drums of Liberation are here. -
I feel like this might have warranted spoiler tags
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I feel like this might have warranted spoiler tags
I dunno. It's pretty much unreleased content in officially released material.
So spoilers shouldn't apply. Too bad we will likely only get to hear it in the anime next year lol.
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I dunno. It's pretty much unreleased content in officially released material.
So spoilers shouldn't apply.
I don't mean following forum rules for spoilers, more as a courtesy thing since it does seemingly confirm things outside manga, SBS, data books and the likes, even if it is the obvious outcome
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It's the Denjiro twist all over again.
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I don't mean following forum rules for spoilers, more as a courtesy thing since it does seemingly confirm things outside manga, SBS, data books and the likes, even if it is the obvious outcome
Agreed. I didn't even think about that, just edited the post.
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If you want to prove something take actual canon material like Tarek did.
! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220316/9d6c4c279c10d6e5cc62f3161fcd801c.jpg
If you want to go by the original Japanese Hyogoro says 明王 (みょうおう) meaning Wisdom King
Yeah, wisdom king alternatively being guardian diety. For all the people saying Luffy's fruit isn't godly or special, Oda is definitely connecting it to that as such.
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This post is deleted!
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I'm seeing people now say the design for the gum gum fruit looks really similar to the darkness fruit, especially the color and swirls on it
probably a reach but the door is wide open for almost anything at this point
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I'm seeing people now say the design for the gum gum fruit looks really similar to the darkness fruit, especially the color and swirls on it
probably a reach but the door is wide open for almost anything at this point
It actually more closely resolved Kalifa’s bubble fruit, also being purple and round, but with less jagged edges. I suppose it could also be relevant to soapy-like resin.
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The visual similarity of the Gomu Gomu and the Yami Yami may not be a coincidence.
Some people already point out that Luffy's rubber counters Black Beard's quake powers from the Gura Gura, so maybe Luffy's newfound powers will also have a "Sun" aspect to fight Teach's "Darkness", just like the final page of Ace vs Black Beard. Btw, Luffy emanating steam and fire is already a symbol of the character.
In fact, the idea of "natural opposites" happens very often in OP – like how the D. are the natural enemies of the Gods (Tenryuubito), which was paralleled by Luffy being the natural enemy of another God (Enel), rubber vs electricity. Similarly, it's fitting for Luffy and Black Beard to have opposites powers to portray their thematic opposition.
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Without CoC or Awakening, Kaidou can't really be taken down though. I assume that's due to a combination of his scales and CoC.
I really feel like Oda's got to clarify when Kaido got his seven defeats. Because it had to be as a younger pirate.
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The visual similarity of the Gomu Gomu and the Yami Yami may not be a coincidence.
Some people already point out that Luffy's rubber counters Black Beard's quake powers from the Gura Gura, so maybe Luffy's newfound powers will also have a "Sun" aspect to fight Teach's "Darkness", just like the final page of Ace vs Black Beard. Btw, Luffy emanating steam and fire is already a symbol of the character.
In fact, the idea of "natural opposites" happens very often in OP – like how the D. are the natural enemies of the Gods (Tenryuubito), which was paralleled by Luffy being the natural enemy of another God (Enel), rubber vs electricity. Similarly, it's fitting for Luffy and Black Beard to have opposites powers to portray their thematic opposition.
Oh I like this! That would make it all even more palatable! I always looked at Teach's crew to get an idea of who might join the Straw Hats. Now I'm wondering how Luffy's powers will develop to be thematically opposite of Darkness, Quakes and some presumed crazy Zoan.
