I wish it was Snack here instead of Perospero, like we didn't even get a full view of the dude. (Yes, I know about the anime concept art)
At least Snack got more of a fight than Smoothie did, and though she's the commander now.
Chapter 1,040: Wasted Words On Young Ears
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We've been told pasively of the rise of the new generation and the collapse of the old one since PH, we've been told actively thru Oden's words about the strong pirates that would come one day to tear down the Yonkou. Yet people are surprised that is exactly whats happening right now..
If anything, Kaido and Linlin's main purpose in the story was being defeated, I dont even know why would anyone imagine they would win..
a friend of mine saw episode 999&1000 ( where BM got rolled out by the straw hats like a nobody )
he frankly told me about dropping one piece for good, said he had enough of this bullshit and don't want to continue since every character would have to be stomped on for the sake our mc's who are not fun to watch as they used to be and started comparing other works to expose oda's bland writing
I knew Marco was his favorite character in the whole series and convinced him to hang on by spelling a little spoiling
I'm sure some of you knows reactionist Uzumaki-Khan, his reaction to this was " this has to be a filler " and was shocked when chat told him it's canon
He legitimately started rooting for big mom and you could see it yourselves on his twitch or youtube
I'm telling you a lot of people are not happy with OP at the moment and always in fear of downvotes on reddit that's why you don't see those people often.
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She was literally banned from using observation haki ( ironically her vice captain is the king of this shit yet the captain herself is too dumb to use it )
Unlike Kaido she was also banned from coating her attacks with CoC haki ( which is literally the strongest ability in the whole story ) simply taken away from her during her final fight with no fucking reason!!
She did use CoC attacks, though. Chapter 1024 confirmed it, even thought it was offscreen.
And I'm not sure how CoO would've helped Big Mom? That final attack, she deliberately took it head on to prove she could withstand it.
I wanted a fair fight and I received none.
Fair fight? It was literally 2 vs. 1.
The fight was never going to be fair.
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Honestly, I've never understood how anyone can look at Big Mom and see her as anything less than the monstrously powerful force of nature that she is.
Yes, she can be goofy and occasionally gets "humiliated" by the good guys doing something like driving a motorcycle into her face, or Robin and Jinbe teaming up to Judo-throw/roll her through a wall and out of the building, but frankly, if you want your villains stoic and untouchable, then you're following the wrong series.
We can quibble over whether she used CoC-coating or Awakened DF powers, but as far as I'm concerned, Big Mom has shown herself to be exactly as strong as her title of Yonkou promised, plenty worthy to be called a peer to Kaidou and Whitebeard. And while Kidd and Law managed to defeat her, she pushed them to their very limits and fundamentally only went down because Law robbed her of her voice - Linlin's means of flight is dependent on her homies and Prometheus/Hera were prevented from getting to her when the floor dropped out from under her, so her only way of preventing herself from falling once the armory blew open was to create a new homie, which she cannot command so long as Law's silence remained intact. Everything else was just a consequence of the fight, its location, and gravity.
And with her final line being something like "You'd better not think this will be enough to kill me!", I'd say there's plenty of room for her to come erupting out of the earth in a rage, once she's rested up for a bit - possibly serving as the impetus for everyone to get the heck out of Wano once the arc has wrapped up.
Yes, she's taken a loss, and yes, her "untouchable" status has been handily removed. Linlin's days as a big, solo, arc-defining villain are probably done. But that doesn't mean she's not still a monumental threat to anyone who gets in her way. Even if Freeza can be readily defeated by Goku/Vegeta these days, that doesn't mean he's not still more than capable of blowing up planets, massacring anyone weaker than him (i.e. most of the cast of Dragonball), and generally causing all kinds of big problems for the heroes.
Without love, it cannot be seen.
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Yes, she's taken a loss, and yes, her "untouchable" status has been handily removed. Linlin's days as a big, solo, arc-defining villain are probably done. But that doesn't mean she's not still a monumental threat to anyone who gets in her way. Even if Freeza can be readily defeated by Goku/Vegeta these days, that doesn't mean he's not still more than capable of blowing up planets, massacring anyone weaker than him (i.e. most of the cast of Dragonball), and generally causing all kinds of big problems for the heroes.
Yeah, but Freeza was never treated as that huge threath after Namek, and that happens a lot in Shonen, we do have several examples in this one series also, sure, Crocodile came back, but never represented an obstacle in the SH's path.
I believe that when Apoo passes the info on Morganz, the guy is publicly going to strip her off her Yonkou status and TotLand will become Free Real Estate..
Much of like what happened in the NW after Whitebeards death, but now, it'll be double since its two yonkou not there to protect their domains.
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She did use CoC attacks, though. Chapter 1024 confirmed it, even thought it was offscreen.
And I'm not sure how CoO would've helped Big Mom? That final attack, she deliberately took it head on to prove she could withstand it.
Fair fight? It was literally 2 vs. 1.
The fight was never going to be fair.
I don't argue whether she used CoC or not, I'm talking about she can infuse her royal haki onto her attacks just like Kaido does all the time but was never allowed to
all we saw was the aura and it's not that
what i meant by fairness is : give her all her weapons to unleash including all types of haki then take her down
if that's the case then 2 supernova don't stand a chance, but Oda pushed it to be so resulting to a meh fight where she just kept using useless homies all the time and not fight like a true emperor like Kaido where he is always superior just because he's the main antagonist of Wano
Plus Law acquiring Corazon's DF outta no where was also a let down, everything doesn't have to make sense anymore
and i find that pathetic.
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I don't argue whether she used CoC or not, I'm talking about she can infuse her royal haki onto her attacks just like Kaido does all the time but was never allowed to.
I mean, how do you that wasn't the case? After all, we know Haki-infused attacks can knock nearby people. Just look at the clash between Luffy and Kaidou during chapter 1026 knocking out that masked guy.
She was fighting only Kid at the time. I doubt she was using CoC aura, since that would be pointless.
The only problem with the fight is that it was offscreened for a good chunk of it, so Oda couldn't just cram everything he could. Doflamingo showed everything he had, but that's literally because he fought Luffy and Law for dozens of chapters.
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Honestly, I've never understood how anyone can look at Big Mom and see her as anything less than the monstrously powerful force of nature that she is.
Yes, she can be goofy and occasionally gets "humiliated" by the good guys doing something like driving a motorcycle into her face, or Robin and Jinbe teaming up to Judo-throw/roll her through a wall and out of the building, but frankly, if you want your villains stoic and untouchable, then you're following the wrong series.
There's a big spectrum between facerolling and untouchable. She couldnt even down Ulti. Arlong, Crocodile, Enel and others managed fine to be quasi untouchable monsters before having to deal with their final opponent.
We can quibble over whether she used CoC-coating or Awakened DF powers, but as far as I'm concerned, Big Mom has shown herself to be exactly as strong as her title of Yonkou promised, plenty worthy to be called a peer to Kaidou and Whitebeard.
I mean Whitebeard was a dying man taking on a plethora of people at the war and Kaido is running a gauntlet with a dozen characters which he mostly defeated and is on round 2 with Luffy(after he dropped him in the sea).
Being unable to down anyone outside of page one is a bad look on her. She pretty much always get the short hand whenever she's dealing with someone, Queen knocked her out, she gets rolled out by the strawhats,need pespero to deal with Marco, gets dropped from the roof…I'm sure her power level is nice but she gets the worst deal when it comes to be being presented at that big force that demands massive ressources to slow down.
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When Big Mom punched Page One, you can definetely see the CoC-coating aesthetic of Luffy and Kaido's attacks.
She never used it again though.
And I don't actually care.
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If the issue is that you don't think Big Mom is strong enough, I disagree wholeheartedly, because I think she's been consistently portrayed as a walking natural disaster easily on par with Kaidou and Newgate. She has tanked attack after attack from top tier New World fighters over the past two arcs and only in the past few chapters have they managed to do more than occasionally move her around against her will.
If the issue is that you don't think she's being "portrayed right" for a villainess of her stature, then I don't know what to tell you, because you seem to want her to be a different character than she is. Linlin is intimidating as all hell in my mind, but she's also an arrogant, mentally ill woman who is fairly easily distracted, and that means her choices and actions aren't always motivated by things like maximizing her proverbial "kill count". She's not interested in making sure she "took out" the likes of Ulti before moving on to focusing on Nami and Zeus, because Ulti is ultimately beneath her notice - she's little more than a speed bump. And once she'd fed Zeus to Hera (or so she thought), even getting revenge on Nami was of lower priority than dealing Kidd and Law, particularly since Kidd showed up to slam her into the ground pretty much immediately after she'd "finished off" Zeus.
Linlin's more than lived up to her title, in my estimation, but she is who she is, strengths and flaws alike.
Without love, it cannot be seen.
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If the issue is that you don't think Big Mom is strong enough
She's a yonko and she has that magic skin. she has a fine power level.
I think she's been consistently portrayed as a walking natural disaster easily on par with Kaidou and Newgate.
I disagree with this. I guess she doesnt get her bones broken often but she's been dealt swiftly pretty consistently. Almost drowning, captured, ejected from the fight. She's far from being presented as a walking disaster, pretty much any conflict she has entered in Wano ends badly for her.
She has tanked attack after attack from top tier New World fighters over the past two arcs and only in the past few chapters have they managed to do more than occasionally move her around against her will.
Her power level is mostly fine.
If the issue is that you don't think she's being "portrayed right" for a villainess of her stature, then I don't know what to tell you, because you seem to want her to be a different character than she is.
Any issue I have with the manga would be wanting something that isnt there. Me wanting Pell to be dead is me wanting Oda to a writer he isnt.
Linlin is intimidating as all hell in my mind, but she's also an arrogant, mentally ill woman who is fairly easily distracted, and that means her choices and actions aren't always motivated by things like maximizing her proverbial "kill count". She's not interested in making sure she "took out" the likes of Ulti before moving on to focusing on Nami and Zeus, because Ulti is ultimately beneath her notice - she's little more than a speed bump.
I feel we have establish Big Mom to be vindictive and unable to let a grudge which is why she is chasing Luffy and Lola's twin cant show her face around her. An argument on how actually about getting even with the lowly people is beneath her doesnt ring true to me.
Linlin's more than lived up to her title, in my estimation, but she is who she is, strengths and flaws alike.
I like the character fine. I think she is poorly used and is a torn in Oda's side this arc that he should have simply saved for Elbaf instead or let retire from the narrative. Trying to handle 2 emperors in one arc is just a bad idea and you end up with Big Mom with amnesia or her crew unable to get past a waterfall for a week.
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I'm very disappointed at Oda regarding the fall of Yonko Big Mom
He was disgustingly biased towards Law&Kidd
She was literally banned from using observation haki ( ironically her vice captain is the king of this shit yet the captain herself is too dumb to use it )
Unlike Kaido she was also banned from coating her attacks with CoC haki ( which is literally the strongest ability in the whole story ) simply taken away from her during her final fight with no fucking reason!!
In a fight were awakening the DF played a major role she was given the middle finger on that regard despite the fact all three contestants are paramecia users!!
Oda always makes it very clear when an ability is originated from an awakening and there are zero evidence that BM used her own, it's just some weak speculations to defend Oda
One last thing, Law was literally knocked unconscious by pistol shots not long ago yet somehow he endured a Yonko's close up beating!!
Idk what else to say except that I'm very disappointed and this favoritism makes me absolutely hate the alliance going forward
I wanted a fair fight and I received none.
Forget about the fairness,
At least show some respect to the Yonko yet it was nothing but constant humiliation. sucks
I'm curious, do the people who think this way read any stories that aren't shonen manga? The accusation of bias is pretty funny. It's a narrative, not a sports league, and Oda's an author, not an umpire - of course he favours the characters he created and wrote to be the heroes.
There certainly are stories that will let the villains win in major ways if they have the better plan or truly unstoppable powers, but those kinds of stories tend to have far different tones and themes to One Piece.
Another layer of humour to the bias accusation is that you reveal biases of your own when you say Law was "literally knocked unconscious by pistol shots." The way I remember that scene was the gunfire being the final blow on an already-injured Law after he faced a Doflamingo and Fujitora tag team followed by 1v1 with just Doflamingo with no time to recharge or prepare. Law was knocked out by bullets about as much as Whitebeard was killed by them. They were a factor, sure, but they weren't the whole story, and no one would pretend that they were unless there was something to gain from leaving the rest out.
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They say all men are created equal, but you look at Kid and you look at Big Mom and you can see that statement is NOT TRUE. See, normally if you go one-on-one with another pirate you got a 50/50 chance of winning.
But Kid's a genetic freak, and he's not normal. So Big Mom has a 25 percent chance, at best, to beat Kid. And then you add Law to the mix? And her chances of winning drastic go down.
See, the 3-Way at Wano, Big Mom's got a 33 and 1/3 chance of winning. But Kid has a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Law KNOWS he can't beat Kid, and he's not even gonna try. So you take Big Mom's 33 and 1/3 chance minus Kid's 25 percent chance (if they was to go one-on-one) and Big Mom has an eight and 1/3 chance of winning at Wano.
But then you take Kid's 75 percent chance of winning (if they was to go one-on-one), and then add 66 and 2/3 percents, Kid has a 141 and 2/3 chance of winning at Wano.
Big Mom, the numbers don't lie, and they spell DISASTER for you, at Wano.
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When Big Mom punched Page One, you can definetely see the CoC-coating aesthetic of Luffy and Kaido's attacks.
She never used it again though.
And I don't actually care.
Her final fight is what matters, and I do care about it greatly.
I'm curious, do the people who think this way read any stories that aren't shonen manga? The accusation of bias is pretty funny. It's a narrative, not a sports league, and Oda's an author, not an umpire - of course he favours the characters he created and wrote to be the heroes.
There certainly are stories that will let the villains win in major ways if they have the better plan or truly unstoppable powers, but those kinds of stories tend to have far different tones and themes to One Piece.
My point is that Big Mom has a very important role in the story as one of four greatest pirates
It will never make sense to me that a warlord or a ''sea trash'' like Doflamingo received a much better treatment and overall appearance than Big Mom
Name me one time Doflamingo got humiliated other than Law rejecting his offer to do the surgery
Doflamingo managed to beat 2 supernovas at once while the freaking protagonist is included!!
What happened to Big Mom was unfortunate, Making her very stupid and embarrassed over and over was not a good look on every aspect.
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Her final fight is what matters, and I do care about it greatly.
You come from the point of view that Haki is the ultimate power system in OP, when that's not true.
Characters can approach power through different means according to their own predispositions, tools and talents. Haki is only one of these.
Haki is in the highlight because it's the main path Oda chose for Luffy for us to clearly see his development as he masters advanced forms of observation, armament and conqueror's haki. It's not like Oda could come up with a new Gear whenever Luffy needed a powerup, so Haki was an excellent tool to balance power levels with the other power systems in One Piece, mainly devil fruits (but also technology, natural strength, supergenes, crazy techniques, etc).
Some top tiers are masters in one of the colors of Haki, like Kaido with Conqueror's and Katakuri with Observation, but some other characters are not masters in any of these forms despite being quite powerful for other reasons.
Oda's design for Big Mom's power is based on her devil fruit abilities and supernatural body strength. Not Haki. She does use Haki as Oda has established it for our knowledge, but it's NEVER the main source of her attacks and defense. And that's great because it keeps versatility in the manga instead of all fights looking the same and being measured by the same standards. Likewise, neither Kid or Law focus on Haki. Black Beard is another guy whose strength comes from devil fruits. And the list goes on.
It's just more fun and smart this way.
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My point is that Big Mom has a very important role in the story as one of four greatest pirates
It will never make sense to me that a warlord or a ''sea trash'' like Doflamingo received a much better treatment and overall appearance than Big Mom
Doflamingo had a whole 100-chapter arc where he was the main and only threat. Oda had to make him strong because there was no other antagonist to share the villain spot with him. Luffy just had too many powerful allies at Dressrosa.
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Her final fight is what matters, and I do care about it greatly.
My point is that Big Mom has a very important role in the story as one of four greatest pirates
It will never make sense to me that a warlord or a ''sea trash'' like Doflamingo received a much better treatment and overall appearance than Big Mom
Name me one time Doflamingo got humiliated other than Law rejecting his offer to do the surgery
Doflamingo managed to beat 2 supernovas at once while the freaking protagonist is included!!
What happened to Big Mom was unfortunate, Making her very stupid and embarrassed over and over was not a good look on every aspect.
Were you week to week during Dressrosa? I would have loved to see what you thought of Trebol being kind of bumbling and annoying to undercut the tension of a fight with Luffy's strongest and most threatening opponent to date. It's easy to skim over bits like that when you're trying to read your way up to date in a marathon, but when you've got nothing to do but dwell on it for a week (maybe two if there's a break) you end up overthinking whether or not Oda should still be clowning on his antagonists after they pass a certain threat level.
And what's this about Doflamingo beating two Supernova at once? Luffy and Law won that fight. That was a really significant thing that happened. If just having the upper hand for a portion of the battle is enough to award a win, then congrats, your girl Big Mom officially triumphed over Kid and Law in chapter 1029. And again at the start of their bit in chapter 1038.
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Not to mention that Big Mom remains undefeated in her own arc. Not only that, the Strawhats were literally running away from her. And then she get's to play a big role in the very next arc too. How's that taking a dump on her as an Emperor?
If anything she has proven to mean business. Luffy has openly declared war on the WG by burning their flag at Enies Lobby of all places, is responsible for many prisoners escaping from Impel Down and has punched a Celestial Dragon in the face. All of this in front of many witnesses. Yet, Admirals don't really show much of a desire to hunt Luffy down. I'm not saying that they wouldn't like to capture him. But it seems more like a "that's on the agenda too" attitude rather than making a clear statement, that all those things cannot be tolerated. Big Mom in comparison went after the Strawhats immediately, because as an Emperor she doesn't let things slide.
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@hideoushorrendous, what doyou think about the complete chapter of Kaidou being drunk ? Was Oda also riduculing an emperor during a fight ?
For me, Mum was a terrible opponent and if anything she was not the one poorly displayed in this fight. I'm more annoyed by the obvious plot armor Kid and Law are getting or the uselessness of their crew. -
Big Mom got good focus in her arc and decent fights in past two arcs and she still isn't out of the game( may be in this arc, but not forever). So, nothing to complain about.
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I do agree that I dislike Law's and Kid's crew being reduced to nothing more than useless bystanders.
Big Mom on the other hand has been shown to be a force of nature. The only way for Kid and Law (who have been commenting a bit too much IMHO about not being able to move anymore and then suddenly pulling out yet another attack) to even come close to "defeating" Big Mom was by removing her from the island they are on and her falling in a gigantic explosion which happened by sheer luck because neither Kid nor Law had any idea there were explosives down there in the first place. If there had not been an Silence Room by the way, Big Mom would have just gone back to the fight. The way she mentioned she won't go down so "easily" makes me quite certain her story won't be over just yet.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
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I do agree that I dislike Law's and Kid's crew being reduced to nothing more than useless bystanders.
Oda probably doesn't have enough paper to spotlight every minor character in the manga and probably relies on the anime to cover that. He did show a couple of characters from both of the crews like Bepo and Killer (and killer had a big spotlight) but probably the others are not strong enough to be featured in the fight.
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I do agree that I dislike Law's and Kid's crew being reduced to nothing more than useless bystanders.
Big Mom on the other hand has been shown to be a force of nature. The only way for Kid and Law (who have been commenting a bit too much IMHO about not being able to move anymore and then suddenly pulling out yet another attack) to even come close to "defeating" Big Mom was by removing her from the island they are on and her falling in a gigantic explosion which happened by sheer luck because neither Kid nor Law had any idea there were explosives down there in the first place. If there had not been an Silence Room by the way, Big Mom would have just gone back to the fight. The way she mentioned she won't go down so "easily" makes me quite certain her story won't be over just yet.
My biggest annoyance with Big Mom is how she never used her fruit to save herself from the fall.
First of all, I think its Bullshit that her homies need to hear her in order to help her.
She could easily create a homie from the rubble or something.
In WCI, we saw that she was incredibly versatile and relentless, that she created a homie out of a wave. In like seconds.
What happened to prometheus and napoleon?
Its so stupid that we spent an actual full fucking chapter dealing with the Homie drama and they never truly amounted to anything.
Why the hell did we need that shit.
I think Big Mom will be back but her threat level will be significantly reduced.
It will basically be something similar to Luffy blocking Crocodiles attack or god forbid, a blueno situation
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I think Oda never really cracked how to write an actual fight around Big Mom. She has loads of attacks and Feats to be sure, both in terms of destruction and durability, but I've never felt Big Mom has been part of an actual fight Choreography, with things swinging back and forth- Big Mom attacks with THIS then her opponent does THAT but then Big Mom does THIS…I forgot who it was, but one poster recently made the point that a lot of Wano fights, and the depiction of the enemies themselves, have been hampered by fragmentation, where who has the upper hand will switch offpanel - oftentimes we will cut to the hero being put on the back foot just so they can rally themselves for an impressive win. I feel Big Mom has been dealt some of that. Moreover, a lot of her attacks are big AOE moves that certainly look impressive and do damage, but feel comparatively lacking in terms of feeling impactful in up-close-and-personal fighting. We get situations where either Big Mom gets to launch a lot of moves while on the chase or while flying around in the background like on the rooftop fight, but when the fighting gets up close, on screen she's taking a lot of hits. And she tanks a lot of them, she has those durabiity feats, but still, it kind of also ends up feeling like Kid and Law are allowed to just pummel away at her until she goes down, because the on-panel times Big Mom gets to put the hurt on them feels comparatively limited.
Big Mom is undisputably monstrously strong, I just wish she had better constructed fights to showcase that.And Idunno, I'd have liked Law at least to be lying on the floor a panting bloody mess, dude sat on Big Mom for a while taking what should be world class brutal punches dead on.
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One thing I don't see as "realistic" is that none of the main fighters have suffered critical damage.
Agains Katakuri, Luffy was pierced with a spear. Kidd lost an arm against Shanks. Jozu, Kuzan, Sakazuki etc all lost limbs or have large scars after the very big fights.
And now we have Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law and Kidd all fighting monsters and they're just exausted, that's it…
Based on past situations Oda showed, they should not be able to win these fights without a clear lasting damage on their body, not all of them at least. -
One thing I don't see as "realistic" is that none of the main fighters have suffered critical damage.
Agains Katakuri, Luffy was pierced with a spear. Kidd lost an arm against Shanks. Jozu, Kuzan, Sakazuki etc all lost limbs or have large scars after the very big fights.
And now we have Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law and Kidd all fighting monsters and they're just exausted, that's it…
Based on past situations Oda showed, they should not be able to win these fights without a clear lasting damage on their body, not all of them at least.Sanji almost got decapitated, so there's that. But his Not!DF powers mean it won't stick. Zoro could have a side scar. Idk.
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Another layer of humour to the bias accusation is that you reveal biases of your own when you say Law was "literally knocked unconscious by pistol shots." The way I remember that scene was the gunfire being the final blow on an already-injured Law after he faced a Doflamingo and Fujitora tag team followed by 1v1 with just Doflamingo with no time to recharge or prepare. Law was knocked out by bullets about as much as Whitebeard was killed by them. They were a factor, sure, but they weren't the whole story, and no one would pretend that they were unless there was something to gain from leaving the rest out.
I would like to remind you that Law was blasted by a thunder bagua minutes before his final fight started
He came in already injured from the roof battle, yet him and Kidd displayed some ridiculous endurance against Big Mom which honestly makes poor sense.
You come from the point of view that Haki is the ultimate power system in OP, when that's not true.
Characters can approach power through different means according to their own predispositions, tools and talents. Haki is only one of these.
Haki is in the highlight because it's the main path Oda chose for Luffy for us to clearly see his development as he masters advanced forms of observation, armament and conqueror's haki. It's not like Oda could come up with a new Gear whenever Luffy needed a powerup, so Haki was an excellent tool to balance power levels with the other power systems in One Piece, mainly devil fruits (but also technology, natural strength, supergenes, crazy techniques, etc).
Some top tiers are masters in one of the colors of Haki, like Kaido with Conqueror's and Katakuri with Observation, but some other characters are not masters in any of these forms despite being quite powerful for other reasons.
Before their alliance, the two Yonkos fought each other fiercely
Big Mom was relying almost completely on her CoC Haki infused onto her sword leading the sky to split in half
She didn't hesitate to use her strongest weapon on her arsenal to fight Kaido and was able to force him to give up on killing her as he stated
despite having youth advantage Kaido was unable to defeat a serious & fed up Big Mom
Now let's go back to her final fight where she used that technique zero times against the good guys
I hope you caught a glimpse of why I'm criticizing.
Not to mention that Big Mom remains undefeated in her own arc.
Yeah she was undefeated at her own arc
She was also poorly humiliated by that eating disorder bullshit
She got shit on by Jimbe a lot on that arc and it's not much different that the motorcycle thing, different arcs but same outcome : our beloved mc's shitting on a yonko yay
Who cares about Whitebeard's standards or Majesty, our mc's comes first and more importantly than anything else, definitely not gonna make anyone puke with that writing.
@hideoushorrendous, what doyou think about the complete chapter of Kaidou being drunk ? Was Oda also riduculing an emperor during a fight ?
For me, Mum was a terrible opponent and if anything she was not the one poorly displayed in this fight. I'm more annoyed by the obvious plot armor Kid and Law are getting or the uselessness of their crew.It was fun
terrible opponent ?
remember when Luffy promised to take them all down and now that promise is no more after the last chapter ?
Yeah somehow I remember that and find it odd now.
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Honeslty I think the treatment of Kaidou vs Big Mom fight-wise comes down to Kaidou being largely an up-close and personal fisticuffs and club swinging animal man - basically Lucci 2.0 - whereas Big Mom A) has a more esoteric fruit which canbe applied in all sorts of crazy ways, with nebulous limits and B) Is not exactly nimble and acrobatic
One is just simpler to write a fight for than the other
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@hideoushorrendous, what doyou think about the complete chapter of Kaidou being drunk ? Was Oda also riduculing an emperor during a fight ?
For me, Mum was a terrible opponent and if anything she was not the one poorly displayed in this fight. I'm more annoyed by the obvious plot armor Kid and Law are getting or the uselessness of their crew.What plot armor though? We know Kid has andurance on par with Luffy's and Law lasted God knows how long during the Dressrosa battle. If Luffy is still going against Kaidou, then the same should apply to them.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
What happened to prometheus and napoleon?
I believe Prometheus was part of Misery (she had characteristics of fire and electricity), which Law cut in half.
Not sure about Napoleon, but I think Law disarmed Big Mom when he dropped that tower on her, so he's probably buried in some rubble. Not that he would of any use since he's just a jumping sword.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
One thing I don't see as "realistic" is that none of the main fighters have suffered critical damage.
Agains Katakuri, Luffy was pierced with a spear. Kidd lost an arm against Shanks. Jozu, Kuzan, Sakazuki etc all lost limbs or have large scars after the very big fights.
And now we have Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law and Kidd all fighting monsters and they're just exausted, that's it…
Based on past situations Oda showed, they should not be able to win these fights without a clear lasting damage on their body, not all of them at least.Zoro literally has every bone in his body broken and is laying on a bloody puddle right now.
And I believe this is the first time Nami got any significant injuries. Before, the worst she got was some piercings here or there.
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Big Mom feels like she has the same range of bullshit powers Law has, except hers actually make sense for her fruit. She can bring to life anything and tear out your soul, on top of having iron skin that can withstand bazookas unless she's mentally defeated. Must be hell to write around that.
The way she's been treated this arc is interesting. On one hand I'm frustrated. Her being in Wano has bloated the arc and it feels she's sidelined compared to Kaido. Not to mention stuff like Nami stealing Zeus by accident or Law taking a pummelling head on when it was the tenth time he'd gone on about being "out of stamina". Both Kid and Law feel like they should be in way worse condition.
But she's making up for it by being so fun to read about. Kaido might be the main villain, but Big Mom has completely overshadowed him in terms of personality. She's actually running around the battlefield interacting with everyone. I love that she isn't getting defeated by the Strawhats. And despite all the random powers she and Law are pulling, it's refreshing to see a legend get defeated by something other than haki.
In my ideal world I'd preferred if she was defeated in Elbaf and the characters used trickery instead of dumb luck/brute strength/limitless stamina. But at the same time there was a real risk we'd never get a fight at all, especially not with that amnesia plot. So I'm happy with what we got. Could be better, could've been a lot worse.
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Yeah she was undefeated at her own arcShe was also poorly humiliated by that eating disorder bullshit
She got shit on by Jimbe a lot on that arc and it's not much different that the motorcycle thing, different arcs but same outcome : our beloved mc's shitting on a yonko yay
Who cares about Whitebeard's standards or Majesty, our mc's comes first and more importantly than anything else, definitely not gonna make anyone puke with that writing.
Usually when a character gets nerfed, it's because they are too powerful, so the change is implemented to make a defeat easier. For Big Mom however the Strawhat Pirates, the Firetank Pirates and Germa 66 still had to run away for even though she was in that state, which visibly weakened her. If anything this nerfing underlines jow strong she is.
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One thing I don't see as "realistic" is that none of the main fighters have suffered critical damage.
Agains Katakuri, Luffy was pierced with a spear. Kidd lost an arm against Shanks. Jozu, Kuzan, Sakazuki etc all lost limbs or have large scars after the very big fights.
And now we have Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law and Kidd all fighting monsters and they're just exausted, that's it…
Based on past situations Oda showed, they should not be able to win these fights without a clear lasting damage on their body, not all of them at least.While not lasting it does appear that Zoro's heavily beat up body will have lasting consequences past this arc. Also I know they aren't the "main" fighters on this exact battle field but Dogstorm and Catviper did lose limbs to Jack during an earlier fight against the Beast Pirates. It's not lasting but Doflamingo was more or less subordinate to Kaidou and managed to snag a limb against Law. Kiku managed to lose an arm seemingly for good against Kaidou. Seemingly lol.
I know what you want. I want more of it too.
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I can't really see how the eating disorder worked as nerfing for BM. It was clearly just a type of berserk mode, which actually lead her to no-thoughts rampaging, not weakling. I am gonna bet that BM has never been weaker of her "normal" status, but just uncontrollable. Like, she kept taking blows (even her own) and kept going like the boar she is. The only point where she was "weaker" was when she lost memories, as she lost her fighting will too… and still cleaned Udon's floor with Queen's brachio-face.
I am really impressed by BM's character so far, she has been undefeated for her whole arc and still been a MVP for the successive arc, ending "losing" for ring-out after other two MVPs had to rely on their own awakening and most secret attacks for like three chapters in a row (which is actually a record for any non-SH character since Ace vs Teach) and still she's clearly just put aside for the rest of the arc, not really defeated.
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One thing I don't see as "realistic" is that none of the main fighters have suffered critical damage.
Agains Katakuri, Luffy was pierced with a spear. Kidd lost an arm against Shanks. Jozu, Kuzan, Sakazuki etc all lost limbs or have large scars after the very big fights.
And now we have Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law and Kidd all fighting monsters and they're just exausted, that's it…
Based on past situations Oda showed, they should not be able to win these fights without a clear lasting damage on their body, not all of them at least.Sanji withstood lasting emotional damage because he acceptad his sturdy skeleton :blink:
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Before their alliance, the two Yonkos fought each other fiercely
Big Mom was relying almost completely on her CoC Haki infused onto her sword leading the sky to split in half
She didn't hesitate to use her strongest weapon on her arsenal to fight Kaido and was able to force him to give up on killing her as he stated
despite having youth advantage Kaido was unable to defeat a serious & fed up Big Mom
Now let's go back to her final fight where she used that technique zero times against the good guys
I hope you caught a glimpse of why I'm criticizing.
Dude… sky-splitting clashes are fireworks. It's symbolic. It's the solemn aesthetic to the occasion when Emperors are matched against each other... so that Oda can immediately cut away from the scene offscreening all actual fighting but still make it look meaningful and iconic.
So, of course, Oda did the same when Big Mom was matched against Kaido for a single page -- and you draw the clash like that. That's it
However, you saw NOTHING of that fight beyond that initial glimpse, so you don't have any information about how Big Mom fought against Kaido for that entire day. You're assuming it was CoC brawl, but you don't know.
What we DO KNOW is that Big Mom fights with her homies like an ELEMENTAL WITCH while also swinging her sword for big Elbaf techniques. We know that because that's what Big Mom does EVERYTIME she has an extended fight for more than one panel. It's in her character design. It's what Oda thinks is the coolest, most original way to portray her, which will happen anytime she gets a real fight. It's only in your headcannon that Napoleon is her strongest homie.
And besides Big Mom, we also know that White Beard mainly focuses on his Gura Gura powers instead of Conqueror's, as we've seen thoughout Marineford. And Akainu magma-fists people. And so on.
Understanding One Piece is not that difficult.
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Oda is rushing the story and its pretty clear from how the fights went on. Zoro has no reason to beat King like that nor does Sanji with Queen. Luffy instead of gettin tired as the battle goes, he becomes more durable and stronger. Kaidos attacks that one shot him previously arent even seriously hurtin Luffy anymore. Mom forgot to use haki in the entire fight and Law with Kid proved more durable than her.
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I remember when people honestly thought S and Z would struggle with Pay-Pay or Denjiro.
It must sure have come as a suprise if you came into this thinking that
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I remember when people honestly thought S and Z would struggle with Pay-Pay or Denjiro.
It must sure have come as a suprise if you came into this thinking that
It is honestly a sign they've never read One Piece.
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I remember when people honestly thought S and Z would struggle with Pay-Pay or Denjiro.
It must sure have come as a suprise if you came into this thinking that
I mean, I can understand being unsure of their skills at first when seeing them for the first time, plus how Zoro didn't strike down Denjiro right away, since Denjiro even blocked one of Zoro's attacks, so I can also understand him no being talked about as being the same as cannon fodder either.
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If BM didn't come to Wano, Kidd and Law would be helping Luffy 3v1 Kaido for equal credit. Which people would complain about it robbing us of Luffy reaching the level solo.
If they didn't help or were ko'd, you'd have people complaining about how Oda's failing to make the "New generation" credible since only the strawhat can do anything.
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If BM didn't come to Wano, Kidd and Law would be helping Luffy 3v1 Kaido for equal credit. Which people would complain about it robbing us of Luffy reaching the level solo.
If they didn't help or were ko'd, you'd have people complaining about how Oda's failing to make the "New generation" credible since only the strawhat can do anything.
To be frank, that's a poor excuse. In-universe it may make sense, but from a narrative standpoint, Oda could just have made more commanders or something to keep them busy.
I don't mind Big Mom being defeated by them, but I do feel the way her presence (and Peropero's and the rest of her crew) was done was a poor choice.
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Interesting no chapter 1041 in sight
人事を尽くして天命を待つ
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I can't really see how the eating disorder worked as nerfing for BM. It was clearly just a type of berserk mode, which actually lead her to no-thoughts rampaging, not weakling. I am gonna bet that BM has never been weaker of her "normal" status, but just uncontrollable. Like, she kept taking blows (even her own) and kept going like the boar she is. The only point where she was "weaker" was when she lost memories, as she lost her fighting will too… and still cleaned Udon's floor with Queen's brachio-face.
She was pretty much running out of steam the longer it went on. And that's because once she is in this mode, she will only stop once she eats what she's craving for. To me that's clearly a nerf compared to replenishing energy/stamina/strenght with any type of food at any time.
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If BM didn't come to Wano, Kidd and Law would be helping Luffy 3v1 Kaido for equal credit. Which people would complain about it robbing us of Luffy reaching the level solo.
If they didn't help or were ko'd, you'd have people complaining about how Oda's failing to make the "New generation" credible since only the strawhat can do anything.
I mean Oda chose to have Kidd and Law and Wano. Its not they were forced upon him. We didnt even know Kidd had conflict with Kaido until he suddenly did. Its not like some other guy did the setup and then it was thrust upon Oda. Also they could have fought some of the supernovas Kaido has with him or been the first round of Kaido before taking on Luffy (which basically happened here and had happened with Doffly). There's several to resolve a plotline. And if there isnt a way to resolve it satisfyingly maybe it just shouldnt have been there.
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I remember when people honestly thought S and Z would struggle with Pay-Pay or Denjiro.
It must sure have come as a suprise if you came into this thinking that
I honestly don't know how someone could have read One Piece for all these years and not have known Zoro and Sanji would end up fighting King and Queen right from the moment you saw them
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I know what people mean about Oda rushing things, and realistically, all of these fights should at least have taken as long as Luffy and Katakuri did. But honestly, even in a world where Oda doesn't want to rush the story even a bit, I can't imagine him spending much more time on fights like these which don't feature the main character of the story (I'm kinda curious, does anybody know (or want to research
) what the longest non-Luffy fights in the story were, in terms of chapters/panels depicting the fights?) I do think the last three fights all got a pretty good amount of screentime.Depicting the fights against the Emperors was always destined to be a difficult task for Oda because he has to deliver on their hype but also needs to believably tell the story of the new generation overcoming them. It's argueable if he has completely succeeded regarding the second part, but I also get the impression that some people would have never been satisified with the outcome of these fights no matter what and maybe even actively wanted (and expected) the emperor's to win, which is honestly a little foolish.
What I personally do think Oda has successfully accomplished is depicting both Big Mom and Kaido as absolute monsters. Kaido is a beast of a fighter with killer endurance, and Big Mom is a scary monster. I was fully satisfied with how she went down and what I personally find amazing is that Oda found a way to take down Big Mom before Kaido without taking away from Luffy's inevitable defeat of Kaido. It took so, so much to take Big Mom out and it isn't even clear if she is even unconscious or anything, so if Luffy manages to knock Kaido out with his own strength, it will still be hella impressive.
I feel some readers have a problem reconciliating Big Mom being a powerful, scary force of nature with Big Mom also being a source of comic relief and a very flawed person who can be tricked or made fun of, as if she can't be both at the same time. To each his own. I personally really like that even the emperors are allowed to be flawed, human and have weaknesses that can be exploited.
Also, Franky and Brook riding a motorcycle on Big Mom's face was the best thing ever.
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I feel some readers have a probably reconciliating Big Mom being a powerful, scary force of nature with Big Mom also being a source of comic relief and a very flawed person who can be tricked or made fun of, as if she can't be both at the same time. To each his own. I personally really like that even the emperors are allowed to be flawed, human and have weaknesses that can be exploited.
Also, Franky and Brook riding a motorcycle on Big Mom's face was the best thing ever.
This, so much this. Not every villain needs to be this way, but I love having some variety.
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Understanding One Piece is not that difficult.
It is honestly a sign they've never read One Piece.
I honestly don't know how someone could have read One Piece for all these years and not have known Zoro and Sanji would end up fighting King and Queen right from the moment you saw them
Come on guys, no need for being patronizing.
Besides, in terms matchups this is a highly atypical arc where the Straw Hats have tonnes of high profile allies getting in on the action, from Marcoh to the Scabbards to Kid/Law and Yamato. Its pretty understandable that people might expect the matchups to shake out differently, and a lot of these allies did make for fight curveballs; Chopper, Brook, Nami and Usopp get negligeble or no fights, whereas Perospero, Jack, Hawkins, Kanjuro, Big Mom and earlobes guy are taken out by allies, Apoo is seemingly not being taken down at all. Heck, for a while Queen seemed like a more fitting thematic match for Chopper and Franky what with being a cyborg plague scientist, until a connection to the Vinsmokes materialized out of the ether, and the hoops Oda made Sanji jump through to get him to fight Queen were…divisive at best.
As for Big Mom, her ability is so incredibly broad - she can make a familiar out of anything at any time and said familiar may have all sorts of uniquely insane properties, and thats just the start- that its very easy to play the "why didn't she" game. That is a game that can get real tiring in favor of just rolling with the action, but it is a symptom of Big Mom having an almost limitless arsenal at her disposal (to say nothing of stull like consuming her own soul or giving soul to her bones). Personally I just want to know how she countered "being buried in a pile of steel girders after becoming magnetic" by making the girders homies (shouldn't they still be magnetized?), but I confess I can't really remember much of what happened to said now living girders. Thats all stuff in the "it just works how it works, just roll with it" category, but I do think its fair to question the apparent omission of the King Haki punches. Because after getting the concept introduced we do see Big Mom doing one such punch to lay out PayPay instantly and demonstrate their power...and then never again afterwards. That is pretty weird, especially when you get to how comparatively feeble, or at least endurable, Big Mom beating on a stationary Law looks later on.
You might not agree with the complaints leveled at Big Mom etcetera, and I certainly don't subscribe to all of them, but it is possible to see where they come from and not just go straight for the "You don't understand One Piece" retort.
