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    Throughout this month, we will be testing new features (like search) so you may experience some hiccups from time to time. We'll try to not be too disruptive...

    Chapter 1,048: Twenty Years

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    • Ageless_Bum
      Ageless_Bum
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      Really, I think the reason that Wano dragged on was for 2 reasons. First was to set up how bad a situation the people of Wano were in compared to the several other countries that have been saved. Also to build up how much of a threat the Best Pirates are as a whole. Second was to make the "struggle" of our heroes more … difficult? Not sure if that is the right word, but it was to make it seems as if the gang didn't just go in and throw a punch and win.

      I firmly believe this is the final attack. We have seen a lot of Kaido's abilities and he hasn't gone down easily, so that mark is checked. We have had Luffy lose and come back, so that mark if checked. Luffy is now seemingly using Gear 5, Gear 4 style (retracting his fist into itself), Gear 3 size, Probably Gear 2 swiftness to make things actually connect (this is just a assumption), Advanced Conquerers, Advanced Armament (Ryuo he mentioned), and probably even Advanced Observation (once again I am assuming because he stated his attack would destroy the island) all for one attack. This is seemingly everything Luffy has to use.

      I'm in the Kaido flashback as he falls from the sky boat.

      I am interested to know if there is a consequence of gear 5, but honestly other than the wearing down when he looses steam, I do not imagine there being any more. We have not seen consequences afterward for other fruit's awakenings other than being worn out.

      Life flows on. I'd just go with it, if I were me.

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      • H
        Hudell
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        Maybe this attack will incapacitate Kaido and seal the victory, but not knock him completely unconscious yet.

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        • Nekketsu
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          Kaido won't go down until Moria shows up in Wano.

          Yes, this may sound like a joke to you, but is not. It's clear to me that Oda never intended for the most important of all arcs to end in the traditional way. I know something BIG will happen after Luffy's final attack seemingly K.Os Kaido.

          3DS FC: 0087 - 2971 - 9910

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          • Deicide
            Deicide @Nekketsu
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            @Nekketsu:

            Kaido won't go down until Moria shows up in Wano.

            Yes, this may sound like a joke to you, but is not. It's clear to me that Oda never intended for the most important of all arcs to end in the traditional way. I know something BIG will happen after Luffy's final attack seemingly K.Os Kaido.

            Moria takes the shadow of a qeakened Kaido and laughs as Kaido is consumed by the dawn. Kishishishi!

            Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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            • Monquito
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              There would've been foreshadowing of his arrival already, and the two main entrances are occupied by the Charlottes in one side, Zunesha and the WG Fleet in the other.

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              • Nekketsu
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                People have been saying how this arc has been going on longer than any other. And you think Oda doesn't know? Why do you think he structured the arc in acts, and in between each act he did give us a breather from the arc before going back to the main stage.

                And in true Kabuki fashion, third act is the longest, with most of it taking place in one location. But who said it will be over like this.

                –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                @Monquito:

                There would've been foreshadowing of his arrival already, and the two main entrances are occupied by the Charlottes in one side, Zunesha and the WG Fleet in the other.

                Oh, but there's. Last we saw of him he was making a ruckus in Blackbeard's turf. Oda can just end the third act and show us Moria heading to Wano before going back.

                3DS FC: 0087 - 2971 - 9910

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                • All Fiction
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                  Luffy said he's gonna punch Kaido all the way to the bottom of hell.
                  Would be nice if he actually does send Kaido all the way underground, seemingly victorious, only for awakened Kaido to emerge out of Fujiyama.

                  Nekketsu Zhenja 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Nekketsu
                    Nekketsu @All Fiction
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                    @All:

                    Luffy said he's gonna punch Kaido all the way to the bottom of hell.
                    Would be nice if he actually does send Kaido all the way underground, seemingly victorious, only for awakened Kaido to emerge out of Fujiyama.

                    Took the words right outta my mouth.

                    Luffy knocks Kaido down > False hope > The festival ends > Kaido backstory > Kaido awakens > Tragedy ensues > End of Act III with the worst case scenario.

                    Here's some good advice for those who want the arc to end asap: take a break.

                    3DS FC: 0087 - 2971 - 9910

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                    • Zhenja
                      Zhenja @All Fiction
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                      @All:

                      Luffy said he's gonna punch Kaido all the way to the bottom of hell.

                      And now that Zoro became the king of hell, he can easily kill Kaido down there… I love it when a plan comes together... :ninja:

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                      • Kishido
                        Kishido @Nekketsu
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                        @Nekketsu:

                        Took the words right outta my mouth.

                        Luffy knocks Kaido down > False hope > The festival ends > Kaido backstory > Kaido awakens > Tragedy ensues > End of Act III with the worst case scenario.

                        Here's some good advice for those who want the arc to end asap: take a break.

                        And act 4 will have hoe may chapters until 5?

                        Nekketsu astagadragon 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • DarthAsthma
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                          Feel free to rip me apart if this ends up wrong but people that think this arc is gonna last another 50+ chapters cause Oda gonna do the 5 act meme because people are kabuki experts after reading a wiki article when people more familiar with it have already stated 5 acts isn't some kind of kabuki law, are on some clown shit.
                          I'm pretty darn confident just based on general story telling structure that this arc been heading to its end ever since the first strawhat duel started. It's not gonna rebuild another showdown after this last power up which was the big climax. Again call me out if I'm wrong but I'm fairly confident in this because the story is already suffering from all the little meandering and nothing would be more destructive and outright terrible on a structural level than Oda deciding Wano needs to go on for another year + at this point. If Oda does any of the weird fanfic suggestions like "big mom pirates show up and we're heading to act 5" I'd be seriously concerned with him losing the thread. But so far he's never disappointed on such a fundamental level so I'll die on the hill that it won't happen.

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                          • Dragon D. Luffy
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                            @Daz:

                            The whole Korozumi thing is definetely weird, and reminds me a lot of Doflamingo where great pains were taken to give him a sympathetic villain origin story only for Corazon to go "no, Doflamingo was totally born evil".

                            If we're getting any resolution to the Korozumi plotline at all (which is not certain), it might be the speculated Tama Korozumi reveal which would provide an easy out of "see, they're not all bad! We forgive them! Yay us!" Which would be a bit of a cheat considering Tama has never shown any awareness of her heritage, and has spent the entire preceding arc being as helpful and sympathetic as possible. I just don't see any room for actual lesson learning, not when we're given a conga line of decapitation moments to cheer for with the person who actually suffered at the hands of Korozumi persecution.

                            I mean Dofla's thing worked because Rocinante was given the exact same origin, so the point was that backstories aren't the only thing that shape people. Dofla had a lot of chances to be decent and he just wanted to be an asshole, for his entire life. While Rocinante went through some horrible stuff and kept wanting to be as decent as he could be.

                            I think it's a general point in OP that people decide whether their bad experiences shape them one way or another. A different example is in Fishmen Island: Arlong, Hodi, Jinbe, Fisher Tiger and Otohime all experienced racism and chose to deal it in different ways, with varying levels of goodness and evilness.

                            Orochi could have tried to make something better out of it. Instead he decided to stage the world's biggest and most elaborate torture session, by making an entire country suffer as much as possible for decades.

                            –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                            Re: Act numbers.

                            I stopped caring about those when an youtuber (Ohara) read the Japanese wikipedia and said they can have any number of acts from 1 to 9.

                            Like, the 5 act one is just one type so there's zero guarantee Oda is using that one.

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                            • Daz
                              Daz
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                              @Dragon D. Luffy
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                              @Dragon:

                              I mean Dofla's thing worked because Rocinante was given the exact same origin, so the point was that backstories aren't the only thing that shape people. Dofla had a lot of chances to be decent and he just wanted to be an asshole, for his entire life. While Rocinante went through some horrible stuff and kept wanting to be as decent as he could be.

                              I think it's a general point in OP that people decide whether their bad experiences shape them one way or another. A different example is in Fishmen Island: Arlong, Hodi, Jinbe, Fisher Tiger and Otohime all experienced racism and chose to deal it in different ways, with varying levels of goodness and evilness.

                              Orochi could have tried to make something better out of it. Instead he decided to stage the world's biggest and most elaborate torture session, by making an entire country suffer as much as possible for decades.

                              It wasn't really framed as a choice on Doffys part, the wording was literally that he was born evil, even tiny mistreated child Doffy is labeled as an ominous monster. Which menas all the potential sympathetic framing gets jettisoned; Doflamingo may have had a bad childhood but he was a bad egg regardless whereas Rocinante had the same childhood and…just was good. Theres not really any interrogation of a difference in perspective that let Rocinante turn out good he just did, whereas Doffy doesn't even get the courtesy of "It's no wonder he turned out that way considering his fucked up childhood". And no, its not just Rocinantes personal biases talking and him being an unreliable narrator or somesuch, the whole "born evil" statement is juxtaposed with a flashback of child Doffy freaking everyone out by swearing bloody vengeance, a flashback put there by Oda to underscore Rocinantes point.

                              Johnny B. Decent 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Nekketsu
                                Nekketsu @Kishido
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                                @Kishido:

                                And act 4 will have hoe may chapters until 5?

                                Act 4 is comparatively shorter. Much, much shorter. Act 3 spans what, around 100 chapters so far.

                                –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                I wouldn't want to insist with all that, but the prophecy spoken by Toki has yet to come true.

                                3DS FC: 0087 - 2971 - 9910

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                                • Deicide
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                                  I have the feeling Oda was aiming at 5 acts but gave up because things didn’t align perfectly.

                                  Luffy falling off Onigashima and Kiku/Kin’emon seemly killed workedperfectly as the tragedy to cap Act 3.

                                  The gorousei talking about World events and hinting at Luffy’s fruit would work perfectly as an intermission.

                                  But at some point Oda decided to delay the fruit reveal, so he abandoned the arc end/intermission/act starts flow.

                                  To this day, I find the way the Gorousei appear mid-Wano kinda jarring. They were not part of the arc, we interrupt the action several times to see their discussion. Yet, they are essential. Introducing the issue in the intermission would make it feel way more organic.

                                  Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                  • Nekketsu
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                                    Redon got the chapter. Judging by his reactions…

                                    ! Seems we're finally getting Kaido's backstory.

                                    3DS FC: 0087 - 2971 - 9910

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                                    • D
                                      Dany @Nekketsu
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                                      @Nekketsu:

                                      Redon got the chapter. Judging by his reactions…

                                      ! Seems we're finally getting Kaido's backstory.

                                      You're trolling right? How does a YES! gif tell you we are finally getting Kaido's backstory? If anything, that tells me Kaido is finally down. :happy:

                                      Whether he will stay down is another matter. I'm betting he's not but I hope i'm wrong. 😄

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                                      • astagadragon
                                        astagadragon @Kishido
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                                        @Kishido:

                                        And act 4 will have hoe may chapters until 5?

                                        Easy. Act 4 is 25 ch, act 5 is closing up and epilogue, 15 ch. Wano ends on 2023 baybee!!

                                        Just get on with it!

                                        "No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk.." - Venat

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                                        • Johnny B. Decent
                                          Johnny B. Decent @Daz
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                                          @Daz:

                                          It wasn't really framed as a choice on Doffys part, the wording was literally that he was born evil, even tiny mistreated child Doffy is labeled as an ominous monster. Which menas all the potential sympathetic framing gets jettisoned; Doflamingo may have had a bad childhood but he was a bad egg regardless whereas Rocinante had the same childhood and…just was good. Theres not really any interrogation of a difference in perspective that let Rocinante turn out good he just did, whereas Doffy doesn't even get the courtesy of "It's no wonder he turned out that way considering his fucked up childhood". And no, its not just Rocinantes personal biases talking and him being an unreliable narrator or somesuch, the whole "born evil" statement is juxtaposed with a flashback of child Doffy freaking everyone out by swearing bloody vengeance, a flashback put there by Oda to underscore Rocinantes point.

                                          Well, I mean, there are those movies like The Good Son, Orphan, and the like where they feature sociopathic murderous children, so there is a precedent.

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                                          • Rean
                                            Rean @Daz
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                                            @Daz:

                                            Its weird, because for a moment things seemed more complicated than that - you had the scene of Wano kids getting indoctrinated, you had the capital in general being prosperous, there were plenty of asshole samurais…but then we end up with the citizenry being secretly wall-to-wall pro kozuki, the capital citizens in particular being the innocents to be saved from the onagashima drop, and almost all bad samurai seemingly compressed into the Mimosa Goon Squad, or whatever it was called. Like the supposedly corrupted but not really citizens of Dressrosa the arc feigned at more complexity than it ultimately settled on.

                                            Wano to me screams of an arc that had multiple iterations in Oda's head, the introduction of Yamato in particular is something that is conspicuously sudden and has no real set-up throughout two acts before it.

                                            It also explains why we had so many moments where Oda was playing musical chairs with the character fights, that was him basically stalling for time while he figures out where he lands the massive, messy and sprawling dragon beast that is Wano arc.

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                                            • hideoushorrendous
                                              hideoushorrendous @Monquito
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                                              @Monquito:

                                              If that punch would be meant to fail, it would've be thrown already.

                                              This battle cannot stretch any longer, it must end.

                                              The arc however, could easily take another 10 chapters for its epilogue.

                                              I don't like rushing things

                                              I wanted to see the full fight of Kaido vs Daimyos

                                              I wanted to see the descendant of Ryuma fights instead i got dirt in my eyes from skipping and rushing meaninglessly.

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                                              • Robby
                                                Robby @Rean
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                                                @Rean:

                                                Wano to me screams of an arc that had multiple iterations in Oda's head, the introduction of Yamato in particular is something that is conspicuously sudden and has no real set-up throughout two acts before it.

                                                I stand by the idea that Oda had a very different idea in mind for the start of the raid and then changed things a ton to accommodate chapter 1000.

                                                Like he sets up this game for the top generals to hunt down Yamato, and he then commpletely abandoned it like two chapters later. He didn't draw out Yamato being the "son" long at all before the reveal. He had the scabbards have their final showdown with Kanjuro basically off camera and completely off paneled the minks versus Jack. He beheaded Orochi so there'd be one less villain taking up screentime. He gave the scabbards one big showcase and then took them off the table. Then held Luffy in place on some stairs just long enough to get him to the roof at exactly 1000.

                                                And then right after chapter 1000? He undoes kajuro's death, and Orochi's. The scabbards are fine. And we spend a lot of time going through those exact same things again only handled a little better the second time around.

                                                That's part of whats led to the bloat of this arc. And some of those things like Kanjuro and Orochi he's done multiple times, I don't even know what to think about.

                                                But it really does seem like he was going to do his normal thing, thenbecame aware just how big a deal was being made about chapter 1000 and volume 100 for six months down the line… and changed everything to accommodate that... and then regretted it afterward.

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                                                • Johnny B. Decent
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                                                  I mean, we can give Oda shit for things like this, but juggling all these characters and scenes has to be a goddamn nightmare.

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                                                  • Rean
                                                    Rean @Johnny B. Decent
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                                                    @Robby:

                                                    I stand by the idea that Oda had a very different idea in mind for the start of the raid and then changed things a ton to accommodate chapter 1000.

                                                    Like he sets up this game for the top generals to hunt down Yamato, and he then commpletely abandoned it like two chapters later. He didn't draw out Yamato being the "son" long at all before the reveal. He had the scabbards have their final showdown with Kanjuro basically off camera and completely off paneled the minks versus Jack. He beheaded Orochi so there'd be one less villain taking up screentime. He gave the scabbards one big showcase and then took them off the table. Then held Luffy in place on some stairs just long enough to get him to the roof at exactly 1000.

                                                    And then right after chapter 1000? He undoes kajuro's death, and Orochi's. The scabbards are fine. And we spend a lot of time going through those exact same things again only handled a little better the second time around.

                                                    That's part of whats led to the bloat of this arc. And some of those things like Kanjuro and Orochi he's done multiple times, I don't even know what to think about.

                                                    But it really does seem like he was going to do his normal thing, thenbecame aware just how big a deal was being made about chapter 1000 and volume 100 for six months down the line… and changed everything to accommodate that... and then regretted it afterward.

                                                    That is an idea I can get behind, you can literally delete the off-screened Kanjuro fight and it would reflect better on the characters AND add more suspense for the fake Oden moment, just hold back Kanjuro for a minute.

                                                    I think maybe the only exception here is Orochi, the design of his fruit and how far he went with his character kinda gives me the impression that Oda always had the idea that such a despicable villain deserves to be punished with "multiple deaths" and not just a single painful one (YMMV on how well he landed that). Of course, given that it IS Oda, there's ample reason to doubt that he's dead dead. I lean more towards yes for both Kanjuro and Orochi as it makes the plot flow in a much simpler way, but who knows for sure?

                                                    @Johnny:

                                                    I mean, we can give Oda shit for things like this, but juggling all these characters and scenes has to be a goddamn nightmare.

                                                    Oh absolutely, and keep in mind that he's plotting this WEEKLY against a constant deadline. I expect that a lot of streamlining will happen to the outside world too, otherwise the final war would be this x1,000.

                                                    My primary motivation here is mostly to examine the behind the scenes of it all, Wano is an arc that is flawed in an interesting way to me. Maybe I'm like this because Oda cut through what was basically the least interesting part to me (the minks and Jack plotline had me snoozing since Zou tbh). Maybe if he had cut something I liked I'd be whining more on here.

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                                                    • Robby
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                                                      Like right around chapter 980, we were all going "okay, yeah these are the first signs that Oda is serious about finishing in five years. He's not going to make that, but he's definitely starting to cut corners and we should get used to even more big things being off-paneled."

                                                      And now its almost two years and 70 chapters later and any thought that he was rushing is long gone.

                                                      Definitely some weird on the fly choices to keep characters running in circles to let timing work out on some things. Like Yamato leaving Momo to go fight Kaidou just for Kaidou to arrive exactly where Yamato was, then go back up and fight for a while, and then Yamato heads to the basement, all for Yamato to then leave again just to rejoin Momo. It was all busywork to keep a character active and doing something to pad time while other fights got taken care of.

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                                                      • The D.
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                                                        God. Imagine the face fault Moria is going to do when he reads about Kaido's defeat in the papers, lol.

                                                        Gonna give ya the D.!

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                                                          For some reason I feel like Kaido is gonna die. This flame dragon might be a double edged sword, an ultimate attack that takes out the enemy but also hurts or takes out the user too.

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                                                          • H
                                                            Hudell @Dragon D. Luffy
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                                                            @Dragon:

                                                            I mean Dofla's thing worked because Rocinante was given the exact same origin, so the point was that backstories aren't the only thing that shape people. Dofla had a lot of chances to be decent and he just wanted to be an asshole, for his entire life. While Rocinante went through some horrible stuff and kept wanting to be as decent as he could be.

                                                            I think it's a general point in OP that people decide whether their bad experiences shape them one way or another. A different example is in Fishmen Island: Arlong, Hodi, Jinbe, Fisher Tiger and Otohime all experienced racism and chose to deal it in different ways, with varying levels of goodness and evilness.

                                                            Orochi could have tried to make something better out of it. Instead he decided to stage the world's biggest and most elaborate torture session, by making an entire country suffer as much as possible for decades.

                                                            –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                            Re: Act numbers.

                                                            I stopped caring about those when an youtuber (Ohara) read the Japanese wikipedia and said they can have any number of acts from 1 to 9.

                                                            Like, the 5 act one is just one type so there's zero guarantee Oda is using that one.

                                                            So you're saying we'll have 9 acts?

                                                            Cool.

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                                                            • StrawHatJedi
                                                              StrawHatJedi @Robby
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                                                              @Robby:

                                                              Like right around chapter 980, we were all going "okay, yeah these are the first signs that Oda is serious about finishing in five years. He's not going to make that, but he's definitely starting to cut corners and we should get used to even more big things being off-paneled."

                                                              And now its almost two years and 70 chapters later and any thought that he was rushing is long gone.

                                                              Definitely some weird on the fly choices to keep characters running in circles to let timing work out on some things. Like Yamato leaving Momo to go fight Kaidou just for Kaidou to arrive exactly where Yamato was, then go back up and fight for a while, and then Yamato heads to the basement, all for Yamato to then leave again just to rejoin Momo. It was all busywork to keep a character active and doing something to pad time while other fights got taken care of.

                                                              I think that's the biggest reason I have always doubted not just whether or not the series could finish in 5 years but how seriously Oda was committed to it. Because aside from the stretch of chapters you mentioned, which, I do agree, he likely accelerated and decelerated certain things to make chapter 1000 special, there really hasn't been a ton of evidence in the writing itself to suggest rushing.

                                                              Like, for everything we can point to that says 'this point was a bit rushed', there are two more counter examples of things Oda could have trimmed if he were so inclined. I think if anything, the 'rushing' elements are just Oda being less interested in writing uninterrupted one-on-one fights as he was pre-Time Skip. Like, King vs. Zoro and Sanji vs. Queen felt a bit quick … but then you add up all the panels spent on those fights before they became the central focus and all the other intervening events and it likely adds up to more pages / panel time than we would have seen spent on those scenes back in Enies Lobby / Alabasta / etc.

                                                              Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker

                                                              "ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate

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                                                              • DollarScholar
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                                                                when will spoilers be out? am i missing something?

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                                                                • ARTEMlS
                                                                  ARTEMlS @Daz
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                                                                  @Daz:

                                                                  Villains like Crocodile may have been less "deep" and concepts like Pluton lingered, but you didn't feel like you were missing huge chunks of the puzzle. The baseline was Crocodile wants to become king through subterfuge, because he's a bad guy who wants to be king". Pluton then came later, but slotted cleanly onto this framework as "a big bad weapon that would help Crocodile maintain his status as king, the goal we knew he had".

                                                                  Crocodile just is such a better written villain compared to Kaido.

                                                                  The way he is written just is way more coherent. Like from the very beginning on it actually was crystal clear that we're supposed to hate that guy. To really hate him with all our passion. Besides, we actually got a lot of backstory within the subtext. Crocodile calls Luffy a loser? Because in truth he's speaking of himself. He is the one who failed to conquer the Grand Line, the scar and the hook being the perfect evidence. In fact, he really is lamenting about his complete failure.

                                                                  He is a paranoid nutcase who just doesn't trust anyone at all. Why? Because at some point his then first mate betrayed him and made a deal with the Marine. Because that's how you get this character trait. Crocodile is written super coherent, contrary to Kaido who is just a complete incoherent and disjointed mess (like basically everything in Wano or present-day One Piece in general).

                                                                  Also, Crocodile's roast of Vivi was absolutely spot on and hit right onto the nail. On the other hand we get stuff like Kaido's roast of Yamato where absolutely nothing hits anything and everything just doesn't work. So, Yamato isn't able to find any friends at all, eh? Of course, but it's completely due to Kaido beating up everyone who only comes remotely close. Yamato actually is a blast and basically befriends everyone in an instant.

                                                                  Nowadays these emotional roasts coming from the villains just don't work anymore. (Another example is Miss Merry Christmas and Usopp/Chopper vs. Black Maria and Robin.) Because due to Oda changing his writing style, unlike in the past nothing really works on a deep emotional level. No pathos, no meaningful character conflicts, therefore no real catharsis to expect whenever Kaido is down.

                                                                  To be honest, I don't really get the main theme(s) of Wano properly because all these dozens of subplots are so completely disjointed and never ever any of them properly connect with eath other and lead to something meaningful. Instead they just interact on an incredibly superficial level. Therefore, I just don't care any more.

                                                                  Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.

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                                                                  • blue-san
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                                                                    I dont know, I like Kaido, in the end of course depending on how his backstory will go, but I see a bunch of potential

                                                                    人事を尽くして天命を待つ

                                                                    Link to my AMVs

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                                                                    • DarthAsthma
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                                                                      I wouldn't close the book on Kaido yet and make a final judgment. Kaido still feels incomplete as fuck to me as a character with the way he's been presented to us and I am still 100% convinced a flashback is still coming. There is too many gaps in between his behavior that the snippets we get from other characters don't really answer anything as well.

                                                                      Like Oda even in the raid has made it a point to show his drunken moodswings and show us Kaido being much more jovial from King's memories. These things he's lost over time. While there is a lot I think I want a Kaido flashback to address I'm somewhat confident that we'll know clearly in the end what made him go from "I'm going to be joyboy to I'm going to seek a glorious death".

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                                                                      • Seafarer33
                                                                        Seafarer33 @ARTEMlS
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                                                                        @ARTEMlS:

                                                                        Nowadays these emotional roasts coming from the villains just don't work anymore. (Another example is Miss Merry Christmas and Usopp/Chopper vs. Black Maria and Robin.) Because due to Oda changing his writing style, unlike in the past nothing really works on a deep emotional level. No pathos, no meaningful character conflicts, therefore no real catharsis to expect whenever Kaido is down.

                                                                        To do the man justice, there was such potential with the feud between the Scabbards and Kanjuro, and Kozuki/Kurozumi/Wano people dynamics. When the 9 reached the destroyed harbour and Kanjuro showed his true colors, the tension was real and I wanted them to have a grand, bitter showdown. Orochi could have gone at lengths about how his entire clan was unfairly wiped out and Oden/Kozukis had been terrible rulers anyway. There's also a bit of that when Kaido tells Luffy the Wanoites have accepted their fate and never rebelled so why care about them, but it misses the mark.
                                                                        Anyway, it all went down the drain quite quickly what with the off-panelled fight and Kanjuro/Orochi getting back up 3 times. Plus the complete lack of nuance Daz commented on, where Wano people were all along 100% pro-Kozuki when initially it was all shades of gray, between indoctrinated children, the wealthy in the capital who benefited from Orochi's rule and the outcasts in Ebisu. Wano could have been so much more than its current state… :sad:

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                                                                        • Zar
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                                                                          It's too early to make assumptions, but part of me wonders if the shift in nuance (like the citizens going from being indoctrinated to supporters-all-along) was caused by outside pressure to not depict Japan in a bad way.

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                                                                          • Nekketsu
                                                                            Nekketsu @Zar
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                                                                            No one was indoctrinated except the children. And then the teacher turned out to be one of Black Maria henchmen.

                                                                            3DS FC: 0087 - 2971 - 9910

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                                                                            • Tarek
                                                                              Tarek @DarthAsthma
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                                                                              @DarthAsthma:

                                                                              what made him go from "I'm going to be joyboy to I'm going to seek a glorious death".

                                                                              I think Kaido's conversation with King in chapter 1036 showed that he doesn't really care whether he is Joyboy or not because he believes he'll change the world regardless.

                                                                              !
                                                                              !

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                                                                              • DollarScholar
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                                                                                shouldnt the spoilers be out by now?

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                                                                                • Rean
                                                                                  Rean @DollarScholar
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                                                                                  @DollarScholar:

                                                                                  shouldnt the spoilers be out by now?

                                                                                  Hints are already floating around, so they're probably dropping soon..

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                                                                                  • Daz
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                                                                                    I believe we have actual confirmation that the chapter 1000 hype surprised Oda and caused him to rejigger things - certainly a lot of things are indicative of it. I don't think it serves as the full explanation for Onagashimas various head-scratching decisions and do-overs; rather, I feel these things are fairly representative of Odas contemporary writing choices. Going back to before the raid, theres plenty of awkwardness to go around. Remember the weird back and forth of Kidds stint in prison? Remember when Bepo got food poisoning and later got captured, and then Law got captured, and then he got out (I think it was two seperate occasions but I'm honestly not 100% certain)? There were plenty of elements getting cut short or resolved in short order, like the random fake boats Orochi had torched, and the whole structure of act 2 is weirdly segmented. In terms of plotline priorities plenty of things doesn't really carry over to act 3, and stuff like the Beast pirates hunting Tama for her ability is also totally abandoned. Character focus on Momonosuke- who's been vital to act 3 - is quite limited, and out of all of Kaidous top subordinates, the only ones to get real exposure prior to the raid are Pageone, Queen, and Hawkins. And so on and so forth.

                                                                                    Things may be more pronounced here in act 3, probably because its here the payoffs truly come with no more time for postponing desired character/plotline focus to a later date. But over all, I'd say the writing bumps are representative of Wano as a whole.

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                                                                                    • Monquito
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                                                                                      I also thought the conflict with Ashura would remain until the end, since he seemed rather pissed the whole time, and they managed to piss him off even greater by making him the culprit of the food stealing in farms.

                                                                                      And then, out of nowhere, he was just there being friendly with the Scabbards with no apparent reason.

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                                                                                      • H
                                                                                        Hero Garp @Monquito
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                                                                                        @Monquito:

                                                                                        I also thought the conflict with Ashura would remain until the end, since he seemed rather pissed the whole time, and they managed to piss him off even greater by making him the culprit of the food stealing in farms.

                                                                                        And then, out of nowhere, he was just there being friendly with the Scabbards with no apparent reason.

                                                                                        Ashura’s turnaround came after he saw Yasu’s sacrifice and was visibly shaken by it

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                                                                                        • Deicide
                                                                                          Deicide @Monquito
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                                                                                          @Monquito:

                                                                                          I also thought the conflict with Ashura would remain until the end, since he seemed rather pissed the whole time, and they managed to piss him off even greater by making him the culprit of the food stealing in farms.

                                                                                          And then, out of nowhere, he was just there being friendly with the Scabbards with no apparent reason.

                                                                                          If I recall corre tly, he changed his mind because of Yasuie’s death. Yasuie was the guy who made the “guardians of Wano” speech to the scabbards.

                                                                                          Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                                                                          • blue-san
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                                                                                            I actually thought Ashura and Denjiro would be like level above the other scabards and cleaning plate with some people

                                                                                            人事を尽くして天命を待つ

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                                                                                            • Nekketsu
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                                                                                              I'm doing a quick reread of Thriller Bark, and this may sound presumptuous, but I think Oda had long foreshadowed how are they gonna ultimately defeat Kaido.

                                                                                              3DS FC: 0087 - 2971 - 9910

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                                                                                              • Monquito
                                                                                                Monquito @Nekketsu
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                                                                                                @Nekketsu:

                                                                                                I'm doing a quick reread of Thriller Bark, and this may sound presumptuous, but I think Oda had long foreshadowed how are they gonna ultimately defeat Kaido.

                                                                                                Lmao, still at it.

                                                                                                I originally thought he was going to show up, we've seen him a couple times, invading Teach and in the fb fighting Kaido, I also thought the whole narrative of The Death Coming for Orochi would materialize with all that people who died 10 years ago coming alive with Moria's powers, those that Ashura shown us the graveyards of.

                                                                                                But as of right now, its just too late, and there really are no signs pointing to his presence. Its not only that he would have to cross thru the Charlottes/WG grand fleet, and enter the natural defenses of Wano, but ALSO, he would have to know where the battle is happening, which heck, not even the Wano-kunians know about it, and lets not even talk about how he would get up there.

                                                                                                Its just better to end the battle now, stretching it will only make things much less satisfying.

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                                                                                                • Zanze
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                                                                                                  My two cents on Kaido.
                                                                                                  I think he's been an interesting character. I believe the most important trait about Kaido is that he's bored. He's the strongest thing alive and he has been on top of the food chain for years. He can't reach the One Piece (at least not in a short timeframe) but he also has no real challenge. So, in his general lack of excitement, he spends his time trying suicide and getting wasted while he rambles on about wanting to get a glorious death.
                                                                                                  From this perspective, I think him getting fired up when Luffy offers him a good challenge and enjoying the fight makes sense. Keep in mind he's also stronger than Luffy still, and he's 100% sure he'll come out on top. He's still playing. We haven't seen desperate Kaido yet. This and his sentimental drunk phases have been fun character traits that give him a little more nuance than just being a typical evil mastermind or just a mindless brute like Jack is.

                                                                                                  Then there's another trait about him that rounds off his character pretty well I think. Kaido is kind of a hypocrite.
                                                                                                  His compliments to Luffy? They come from arrogance rather than from sincere appreciation for his opponent like in Katakuri's case. He has also praised Law and Zoro and neither of them was really a menace to Kaido. But they're dangerous enough to force him to be focused on the fight! That's quite a feat against Mr. Indestructible.
                                                                                                  His longing for a good challenge? It sure is there, but only for as long as he's sure he will win. If he wanted to fight Oden so much he could have let him recover from his sucker punch and go at it again instead of boiling him to death. Even against Luffy, yeah he was sad and angry when the CP0 guy interfered but he shrugged it off pretty quickly.
                                                                                                  And even his longing for a glorious death may not be so sincere, he could have gone up againts the WG or against Whitebeard at any time if he was so serious about it. But he prefered to stay in his skull island getting wasted.
                                                                                                  On top of all this he has enslaved an entire nation for twenty years, enabled scum like Orochi, Caesar and Doflamingo and we've seen how he treats his daughter. There's plenty to despise there. He's… kinda casual about it, which is interesting imo. He's not a mustache-twirling villain that takes pleasure in inflicting pain, he's just cynical. He benefits from enslaving Wano, so he enslaves Wano. If the citizens are not okay with it, they'll rebel and he'll crush them, otherwise that's the end of the story. It also doesn't seem like he really holds grudges, he'll try to recruit any opponent he defeats instead of killing them or whatever. He uses brutal methods to break their will, but you can see he's more business-oriented than anything else in these matters.
                                                                                                  Yeah Crocodile and even Ener were more magnificent bastards than him but it's fine if Oda tries to give more nuance to his later villains. Big Mom was not straightforward at all either and I think both her and Kaido have been interesting and generally more human than other villains.

                                                                                                  However there's one thing that, in my opinion, didn't fully work... Kaido has been a good character but not exactly a great villain.
                                                                                                  First, Kaido is the enabler but most of the real evil stuff was done by Orochi. So Luffy beating up Kaido doesn't feel as cathartic because nothing we've ever seen him do on-panel has been particularly despiceable. There was his speech to Momo on the cross where he gave him a choice to survive by forsaking his name that felt delightfully devilish, but not much else.
                                                                                                  And then, yeah we don't know what his goals are. Doffy went down without us ever knowing what his plans were too, but at least you could more or less understand he wanted to overthrow the Celestial Dragons because they rejected him and he needed Law's fruit for that. With Kaido though... We don't really know anything at all. His ultimate goal, why he is in Wano, his past with Rocks... Nothing. Even though he's been fairly well characterized, if you don't know what his villain status stands for at its core, yeah it falls a bit flat.
                                                                                                  Also, I don't really think Yamato has been a spectacular character and that ties into Kaido as well. You'd think Kaido and Yamato would have been used to develop each other as characters, but we didn't really get much from their relationship. Just Kaido trying to break Yamato's will and Yamato not bending. But not much about what they think or feel about each other. The drama between Sanji and Judge felt way more visceral, on both sides.
                                                                                                  Finally, Kaido's gimmick of "breaking wills" helped to further flesh him out as a character, but was painfully ineffective on the main characters. He tried this on Kidd, Luffy, Killer, Yamato and Momo and it failed every single time. The only major character to fall victim to this is Hawkins and he barely interacted with Luffy.
                                                                                                  And finally finally, his status as the world's strongest creature leading the most brutal crew didn't really deliver. He and his crew didn't take out even one character. The Straw Hats definitely struggled more than usual but it still falls a bit flat.
                                                                                                  120 chapters with Kaido on screen, you may have wanted him to be a little more effective, or a little more brutal, or for his goals to be a little more defined. At this point I don't think Oda will deliver on everything (personally I'd want to know at least some of his past, to get some closure with Yamato and to see him actually get really angry). That's kinda been the problem with Onigashima, the plot moves but the story doesn't and sometimes it feels a little frustrating.
                                                                                                  I'm still always hyped to read the next chapter anyways, so what Oda is doing can't be that wrong…

                                                                                                  Welp, this turned into a wall of text. Sorry, everyone!

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                                                                                                  • Nekketsu
                                                                                                    Nekketsu @Monquito
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                                                                                                    @Monquito:

                                                                                                    I originally thought he was going to show up, we've seen him a couple times, invading Teach and in the fb fighting Kaido, I also thought the whole narrative of The Death Coming for Orochi But as of right now, its just too late, and there really are no signs pointing to his presence. Its not only that he would have to cross thru the Charlottes/WG grand fleet, and enter the natural defenses of Wano, but ALSO, he would have to know where the battle is happening, which heck, not even the Wano-kunians know about it, and lets not even talk about how he would get up there

                                                                                                    Moria doesn't need to know the specific location, only the country. And he knows where the battle is taking place as of this moment, courtesy of Blackbeard who fed him the details. How's he going to get there, you ask? If he's coming along the Blackbeard pirates you can be damn sure he'll make it. The WG fleet and the Big Mom pirates won't even be a problem.

                                                                                                    Its just better to end the battle now, stretching it will only make things much less satisfying.

                                                                                                    Sorry, but that ain't how things work.

                                                                                                    Oda is the writer of this story. Oda's the one that decides when it ends. For almost a decade Oda had been talking about Wano, and how the aftermath of it would shake the very foundations of the world. If there's an arc he had plenty of time to plan out thoroughly is that one.

                                                                                                    This is the last time I've said this.

                                                                                                    3DS FC: 0087 - 2971 - 9910

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                                                                                                    • Retro
                                                                                                      Retro @Zanze
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                                                                                                      @Zanze:

                                                                                                      My two cents on Kaido.
                                                                                                      I think he's been an interesting character. I believe the most important trait about Kaido is that he's bored. He's the strongest thing alive and he has been on top of the food chain for years. He can't reach the One Piece (at least not in a short timeframe) but he also has no real challenge. So, in his general lack of excitement, he spends his time trying suicide and getting wasted while he rambles on about wanting to get a glorious death.
                                                                                                      From this perspective, I think him getting fired up when Luffy offers him a good challenge and enjoying the fight makes sense. Keep in mind he's also stronger than Luffy still, and he's 100% sure he'll come out on top. He's still playing. We haven't seen desperate Kaido yet. This and his sentimental drunk phases have been fun character traits that give him a little more nuance than just being a typical evil mastermind or just a mindless brute like Jack is.

                                                                                                      Then there's another trait about him that rounds off his character pretty well I think. Kaido is kind of a hypocrite.
                                                                                                      His compliments to Luffy? They come from arrogance rather than from sincere appreciation for his opponent like in Katakuri's case. He has also praised Law and Zoro and neither of them was really a menace to Kaido. But they're dangerous enough to force him to be focused on the fight! That's quite a feat against Mr. Indestructible.
                                                                                                      His longing for a good challenge? It sure is there, but only for as long as he's sure he will win. If he wanted to fight Oden so much he could have let him recover from his sucker punch and go at it again instead of boiling him to death. Even against Luffy, yeah he was sad and angry when the CP0 guy interfered but he shrugged it off pretty quickly.
                                                                                                      And even his longing for a glorious death may not be so sincere, he could have gone up againts the WG or against Whitebeard at any time if he was so serious about it. But he prefered to stay in his skull island getting wasted.
                                                                                                      On top of all this he has enslaved an entire nation for twenty years, enabled scum like Orochi, Caesar and Doflamingo and we've seen how he treats his daughter. There's plenty to despise there. He's… kinda casual about it, which is interesting imo. He's not a mustache-twirling villain that takes pleasure in inflicting pain, he's just cynical. He benefits from enslaving Wano, so he enslaves Wano. If the citizens are not okay with it, they'll rebel and he'll crush them, otherwise that's the end of the story. It also doesn't seem like he really holds grudges, he'll try to recruit any opponent he defeats instead of killing them or whatever. He uses brutal methods to break their will, but you can see he's more business-oriented than anything else in these matters.
                                                                                                      Yeah Crocodile and even Ener were more magnificent bastards than him but it's fine if Oda tries to give more nuance to his later villains. Big Mom was not straightforward at all either and I think both her and Kaido have been interesting and generally more human than other villains.

                                                                                                      However there's one thing that, in my opinion, didn't fully work... Kaido has been a good character but not exactly a great villain.
                                                                                                      First, Kaido is the enabler but most of the real evil stuff was done by Orochi. So Luffy beating up Kaido doesn't feel as cathartic because nothing we've ever seen him do on-panel has been particularly despiceable. There was his speech to Momo on the cross where he gave him a choice to survive by forsaking his name that felt delightfully devilish, but not much else.
                                                                                                      And then, yeah we don't know what his goals are. Doffy went down without us ever knowing what his plans were too, but at least you could more or less understand he wanted to overthrow the Celestial Dragons because they rejected him and he needed Law's fruit for that. With Kaido though... We don't really know anything at all. His ultimate goal, why he is in Wano, his past with Rocks... Nothing. Even though he's been fairly well characterized, if you don't know what his villain status stands for at its core, yeah it falls a bit flat.
                                                                                                      Also, I don't really think Yamato has been a spectacular character and that ties into Kaido as well. You'd think Kaido and Yamato would have been used to develop each other as characters, but we didn't really get much from their relationship. Just Kaido trying to break Yamato's will and Yamato not bending. But not much about what they think or feel about each other. The drama between Sanji and Judge felt way more visceral, on both sides.
                                                                                                      Finally, Kaido's gimmick of "breaking wills" helped to further flesh him out as a character, but was painfully ineffective on the main characters. He tried this on Kidd, Luffy, Killer, Yamato and Momo and it failed every single time. The only major character to fall victim to this is Hawkins and he barely interacted with Luffy.
                                                                                                      And finally finally, his status as the world's strongest creature leading the most brutal crew didn't really deliver. He and his crew didn't take out even one character. The Straw Hats definitely struggled more than usual but it still falls a bit flat.
                                                                                                      120 chapters with Kaido on screen, you may have wanted him to be a little more effective, or a little more brutal, or for his goals to be a little more defined. At this point I don't think Oda will deliver on everything (personally I'd want to know at least some of his past, to get some closure with Yamato and to see him actually get really angry). That's kinda been the problem with Onigashima, the plot moves but the story doesn't and sometimes it feels a little frustrating.
                                                                                                      I'm still always hyped to read the next chapter anyways, so what Oda is doing can't be that wrong…

                                                                                                      Welp, this turned into a wall of text. Sorry, everyone!

                                                                                                      Yeah all good points, that one of the flaws when it comes to Oda's writing. He's can make a good character but have some trouble on follow through with a few of them and leave more mysteries then answers. This I feel stems from having too many charactesr to cover and not enough time to really do it. At most you get a surface level motivation for some of the villains, some do get some backstory like Big Mom and Dolflamingo, but others we just get second hand info like Who's-Who or Queen who gives an explanation but no flashback or what not. And of course just the brutes in general to shore up the numbers for the heroes to fight with no info where they come from outside of name, quirk and abilities.

                                                                                                      The one thing I'm curious about Kaido came for a line he dropped about being from the oni/orge race and looking down on humans. After that, we get nothing, no backstory outside of being in Rocks crew and meeting Big Mom. I get the boredom part due to being so strong and essentially having a cheat with the Conqueror's Haki covering but the only motive I can get from is either proving Onis superiors with the world conquest ploy or wanting to die with a warrior death I guess (I don't know if that stems from just drinking though). Again he's just very hard to read when it comes to expression, I'm impressed by his abilities and intimidation but he is a little lacking on how evil he's suppose to be.

                                                                                                      Get nuts or go crazy trying.

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                                                                                                        Ageless_Bum
                                                                                                        spiral

                                                                                                        I think Kaido just represents the next level for the crew. They need to overcome him and his crew to be considered ready for the end of the story. I also think that there doesn't need to be a lot of depth to his motivations. He can simply be someone who wants to be the pirate king and doesn't care how he gets there. A power is everything kind of person.

                                                                                                        That doesn't mean he isn't other things because of the story. He in some ways is a foil to Saint Charlos. Both on the evil side, but one we hated instantly and were happy when he was one shotted, and the other we don't hate as much as we would like and he just wont go down. One is a representation of assumed importance, and the other is power incarnate. One is happy to have others protect him, the other hates it when people interfere with his fights. Kid did say "the villains of the world look positively humane in comparison."

                                                                                                        Kaido also represents a contrast to Luffy. Kaido's final attack form is serious and threatening, Luffy is jovial and goofy. Kaido is bored at the top and staying in one place, while Luffy just wants to protect his friends and have an adventure. Kaido gets what he wants by force, and Luffy helps others just because he chooses to. They may be the embodiments of Morganeers and Peace Mains that I believe was from Romance Dawn.

                                                                                                        I guess what I am saying is that I don't need a lot of backstory or reason to feel anything about Kaido. He was represented as strong when the story started and he has not disappointed.

                                                                                                        Life flows on. I'd just go with it, if I were me.

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